Why Do We Love The ShadowHawk IIC?

[@samuelbennett3441]

I am shocked, shocked to learn that removing the shadowhawk's autocannon massively improved it.

[@MechanicalFrog]

*Gasping*

[@RecklessFables]

A shadowhawk without the iconic shoulder mount is just a wolverine...

[@Ironclockwork]

*Cue angry House Davion noises*

[@ogrehaslayers605]

​@@Ironclockworkbrrrrrrrtttt

[@WolfHreda]

It's amazing what shedding ten tons of dead weight can do.

[@MrFleem]

We need a version that goes all in on the original's defining feature. That's why I'm designing the Shadow Hawk IIC / KBM, which has ammo in every location!

[@MechanicalFrog]

Heh.

[@Ironclockwork]

The Shadowhawk IIC’s design background reflects the Clan fixation on efficiency and bringing the fight to the foe’s front porch.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Well put.

[@crazytiger800]

yaay, Dougram IIC my first favorite IIC mech.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Huzzah!

[@sharlin648]

I've always had the feeling that the Shadow Hawk IIC and Griffin IIC were designed to operate as a pair, the Griffin wears down hostiles at range and the Griff IIC , especially the standard one is a NASTY brawler. Great video as always!

[@MechanicalFrog]

Could be... could be... I guess we'll have to see with the Griffin IIC video.

[@tehpw7574]

Maybe... but because "working together" and Clan Zell are two mutual exclusive concepts. Now, maybe that could be a thing in 2nd Line or Solahma, where the derision is NOT a factor in war planning, but it mainly depends on which Clan and the Opfor. Clan vs Clan, generally unlikely, because very few Clans do that normally; vs Dark Caste? I think the Clan facing Dark Caste might use Zell to show off, probably. Otherwise, they go nuts. Again, the mileage is determined by which Clan or even Era...

[@sharlin648]

@@tehpw7574 Aye, with the Clans and before the advent of Omni's and really the full cementing of Zell, these would have been front line fighters. But by the time of REVIVAL and so on, these things would have largely been the domain of PGC formations, piloted by Warriors who were either at best second rate, at worst actively suicidal and wanting nothing more than to die in battle.

[@jasonhenninger8220]

Shadowhawk has always been a favorite. Kitting out a prestige version. - XL 5/8/5, ENDO, 8t Ferro, 13 DHS, ERPPC (LT - turret), 2 ER Md Lasers, LRM15 w/ A5 (2t A), L-AMS, targeting computer. (BV2 2566)

[@MechanicalFrog]

Warm and cozy.

[@joshuaturnquist5538]

The standard loadout kinda makes sense, from a clan infighting perspective. A bunch of SSRM2s because they used to be able to load inferno missiles to delete Elementals, 2 medium pulse lasers to skirmish with evasive secondline mechs like the Incubus and Horned Owl, and a ER Medium and Small to be a tool for pot shots. Loadout makes some good sense, if SSRM2s didn't get changed.

[@MechanicalFrog]

For a mech that can't be too toasty, those Streaks really are nice.

[@DIEGhostfish]

It's funny how the rules change made so many designs stop making sense.

[@claytonhollowell4488]

"Tended to get the job done." Apparently the job is delivering wins for whoever is facing off against a SHD-2

[@MechanicalFrog]

It was probably pretty good at mowing down defenseless civilians, which I assume was 90% of its missions.

[@angryscotsman93]

If there're two weapon systems I'm an irrationally big fan of, it's pulse lasers (especially Clan Large Pulses) and Streak SRMs. I'll have to experiment with the Shadowhawk IIC's sometime

[@MechanicalFrog]

Quite fun.

[@KingMakerRook]

By far my favorite IIC, and tied with the Eris for the mech I’d want to pilot if truck-kun sent me to the BT realm. It’s so plucky and charming, I’m stoked for the official mini coming out with the Mercenaries kickstarter

[@MechanicalFrog]

I am very much looking forward to it.

[@gregkun1]

I had one of these. Took the standard variant and semi-converted to the VI variant. I added the 270 XL, Targeting computer, Gauss Rifle RT, and 3 ER Small Laser LA. Stay a range with cover and take headshots with 2 tons of Gauss ammo.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Make those shots count.

[@Star-qc4br]

It's just NOT possible to have TOO MUCH 2C... I LOVE THESE VIDS, Frog!!! So well done! I never knew the intricate details of many of these 2Cs until these vids. I fell in love with the artwork back when they first came out and have been hooked ever since. A few of these SH2C variants sound like they MUST be tried on the tabletop no matter what one's personal preference is!

[@MechanicalFrog]

Glad you like them! They're quite fun to do.

[@Psychohistorian42]

Shadow Hawky: the quality of having one of everything.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Sometimes, that's exactly what you need.

[@brianhenry152]

More like being disappointed at all ranges. 😝

[@GrozaMariposa]

I love how someone went up to a Berserker out off all the mechs and thought "Yeah I can get up close and personal with that" Some pilots are truly crazy. What if the Berserker grabbed the Shadow Hawk and used the head-mounted flamer to roast the other pilot?

[@MechanicalFrog]

"Hi, someone told me you needed a place to store your hatchet..." Yep!

[@Geeko170]

I do love jumpy sniper mechs and the IIC 7 is one of my favorites. It has a +4 to hit, it if jumps and out ranges most anything it would go against.

[@MechanicalFrog]

It's nice that one is around to keep enemies on their toes.

[@AtreidesT660]

Hey Mech Frog, just wanted to give a shout out that I really like your work. Also, it was Big Reds streams that introduced me to your content. Been watching your vids since. Lots to catch up. Awesome work man.👍😊

[@MechanicalFrog]

Thanks a lot. Red has been a big friend of the channel for a while now. I'll keep making silly videos so long as people keep showing up.

[@shaunhall960]

My first PC game was Battletech The Crescent Hawks’ Inception. It was DOS based and lauched me into my love for Battletech.

[@MechanicalFrog]

I remember it well.

[@Brigand231]

Request for a future vid, the Linebacker. It's criminally underappreciated in my opinion, probably one of the fastest heavy mechs out there and deadly to boot.

[@MechanicalFrog]

We will very likely get to the Linebacker sooner rather than later.

[@Brigand231]

@@MechanicalFrogSweet!

[@jamesbeard5513]

Depending on the Berserker the IIC 5, it was either crushed with the standard or most of the other Berserker variants or sliced clean in half with the C3 Berserker with its TSM. (Thinking like Escanor fighting Galand) Fun little video here, can't wait for more

[@MechanicalFrog]

Thanks a lot!

[@Tatsu_of_Liao]

Love what you’re doing! Always re-watching the current catalog, and eagerly awaiting the next video. Keep it up! 😊

[@MechanicalFrog]

Thanks so much!

[@joelaugustin6407]

I ran a IIC in my last clan game alongside a Vapor Eagle prime and they were unholy terrors together, such a glow up compared to the 3025 original

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

Ah, the Shadowhawk, noted for its big shoulder gun.

[@thecuriousanthropologist]

Ah, yes, getting to know BT through the GDL novels and Grayson's Shadow Hawk. That's exactly how I started and I still cherish those childhood memories. The IIC variant of the machine is an odd duck, but I never had the chance to test it out.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Next time. Give it a shot.

[@thecuriousanthropologist]

@@MechanicalFrog I'll find a way to. :)

[@ravageMK2]

Perhaps not the entirely correct place to put this on a IIC video, but iirc, the Shadowhawk has been animated way back in the day as well. Fang of the Sun Dougram, an old 70's Nihon Sunrise anime (yes, *that* Sunrise) featured the design as it's main unit.

[@MechanicalFrog]

A fair point, though outside my wheelhouse of knowledge.

[@strcmdrbookwyrm]

The Shadow Hawk IIC feels very similar to a mech design that I made myself (Which I named the Red Roc). Both are basically downsized Shadow Hawks, though my design is much inferior due to my limiting myself to only succession wars level tech. For those who may be curious, the Red Roc is a 45 tonner with all standard construction. It's a little less nimble than the Shadow Hawk IIC, as it uses a standard 225 fusion engine and lacks jump jets. It's armor protection only amounts to six tons, which is a little on the thin side for my liking. In terms of armament, I tried to give the Red Roc weapons that worked at most ranges. If I had to decided, I'd say the Large Laser mounted in the left arm is it's weapon. A close second would be the AC5 in the right torso, mirrored from the original Shadow Hawk. For close range combat the Red Roc carries a SRM 4 in it's center torso (with the ammo for the SRM also being stored in the torso being stored their for lore reasons), with a small laser for anti-infantry work. All things considered, I'm actually quite happy with the weapons, even if firing more than two at once will likely overwhelm the Red Roc's ten standard heat sinks. It's a flawed design, but I feel there's also a lot of potential for upgrades. It's a generalist held back by it's limited tech, much like I feel the original Shadow Hawk was. Anyway, sorry for the tangent. Great video, and I can't wait to see what IIC is next. IMPORTANT EDIT: I just realized that I've been making a mistake when designing mechs for years! Because I've always allocated tonnage to the heat sinks outside the engine (when I shouldn't have), the Red Roc is actually one ton underweight. I've decided to use that free ton to add one more heat sink (putting one in each leg) with the hope that it makes the heat more manageable. I'm just embarrassed that I somehow missed this. ^^"

[@MechanicalFrog]

Interesting... I'm perfectly fine with flawed designs. If we only used min-maxed perfect mechs, there would only be roughtly 12 of them to choose from.

[@strcmdrbookwyrm]

@@MechanicalFrog Thanks. ^^ And yeah, min-maxing drains the fun out of stuff once you do it. Trying to take on a challenge is where the fun is at.

[@mathewkelly9968]

Need these for my Nova Cats , also a fan of the Shadow Hawk C which is a 2H with 2 extra jump jets , an extra heat sink and clan weapons an ER medium , an LB 5X , a clan LRM 5 and a streak 2 .

[@MechanicalFrog]

Looking forward to those Kickstarter boxes

[@keebbles]

I just up geared my Shadowhawks with Clantech, Star League tech and pirate tech. Though most ended up running 3 to 5 tons underweight until I got access to right weapons. Ac5 -> light ppc Doubled LRM 5 launchers. Added toolkit ammo. 4 tons ammo Case Med pulse lasers x2 RA Baby Griffon almost. The pirate version was a walking hazard zone waiting to explode. Until then it could cook mechs at all 3 ranges lrm w/hydra or incendiary ammo Srms w/infernos. Plasma rifle (P) And flamers in head, ct, torsos, legs and arms.

[@MechanicalFrog]

I'm not going to complain about a Plasma Rifle build...

[@scytheseven9173]

I dislike the Shadow Hawk IIC (though it looks great and the original variant is decent) because it's in an awkward position where it's not quite fast or agile enough to zip around the battlefield and avoid fire or backstab most of the time (it's only 1 MP faster than most Clan heavy 'Mechs in its usual versions), but it doesn't have the armor of heavier mediums to shrug off the fire it can't avoid as well as its smaller counterparts. A single ER Large Laser is a good primary armament for them, as it provides good damage at very long range for not too much weight and a heat burden it can bear with its free heat sinks if it's not firing other weapons.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Fair critique.

[@DapperRaccoon]

I love the Shadow Hawk IIC sooo much. One of my favorite mechs in general, especially the OG variant.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Same here!

[@kathilmechworks4895]

Hugging a Berserker is generally very bad for your health. As for the Shadow Hawk IIc solid mech, though, I think I like the griffin IIc more.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Berserkers are not for cuddling.

[@HalIOfFamer]

The best shawk will always be the shawk from mw5 you get for doing a modded flashpoint short campaign to get an elite pilot and a cool shawk. It gets the AC5, some lasers, an srm launcher and claws for mele. I reproduce it every time I am running a shawk.

[@haileysaint5443]

Overall, this seems like a well-rounded IIC design. A lot of the variants seem like they would work well in a Star together - although I still can't understand why someone would use the Plasma Cannon variant against a Berserker; the TSM on that assault 'Mech is heat activated, after all. Like always, after watching your video, I decided to come up with my own variant, the Shadow Hawk IIC ISM. I used the standard Shadow Hawk IIC as a basis, and dropped the entire loadout. My penchant for the partial wing shows itself again here, and I swapped the sturdier fusion engine for an XL version to free up mass. This let me mount an LB-10X autocannon with 2 tons of ammo, and 4 ER Medium Lasers to back it up. Using the XL engine and partial wing means that the autocannon can't be torso mounted, so I dropped the right hand and placed it on the right arm along with its 2 tons of ammo (remeniscent of the Centurion and Victor designs), with one ER Medium mounted in the head and the remaining 3 on the left arm.

[@nukenuked5749]

thanks mate loved the video this aussie demands more videos!!!!

[@MechanicalFrog]

More to come!

[@krissteel4074]

The 2C is a good second liner in terms of you can run it with an attrition line just bouncing around lasering the crap out of things, or it fits just fine in a maneuver warfare role feeling out for gaps in the enemy defense and exterminating anything smaller than it usually. Which isn't a fun job, but you're cheap, in a shadowhawk so its what you get sometimes

[@MechanicalFrog]

Lots of little ways it can help.

[@lexington476]

So if Mechanical Frog is walking through the local Discount Dan Outlet dead set on getting himself his dream mech, a shadowhawk IIC. Which variant would you be looking at? And of course Dan has at least one of each in the Slightly Used Department 🙂.

[@MechanicalFrog]

For general use, I think I prefer the original IIC loadout.

[@lukedudley5030]

Another great vid on a upgrade:-) have you thought about doing the wolverine IIC....oops I forgot can't say wolverine to the clanners they get shirty lol :-)

[@MechanicalFrog]

Very likely.

[@BruceEverett-wp5cw]

All hail the IlFrog for another fine video.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Clan Hoppy Frog is resurgent.

[@DjornNorthfield]

Burnie Meme: I am once again asking for your support to fund a guass rifle variant.

[@MechanicalFrog]

"Why do we have to put a Gauss Rifle on everything?" Because, that's why.

[@joshuamidgette4846]

The Hawk mechs sre fine paired together in a lance but the Shadow Hawk will be replaced before the Phoenix Hawk which has far better advanced variants.

[@MechanicalFrog]

That's fair.

[@greysonjones5429]

I dismissed this guy because well, how can he be a Shadowhawk without some sort of large shoulder cannon right? But this guy is actually pretty cool. I'll need to pick up some of the IIc stuff after the Kickstarter is finished, because I didn't pick up any of that. I was focusing on the vehicles

[@MechanicalFrog]

I'm eagerly awaiting those KS boxes... two of each.

[@greysonjones5429]

@@MechanicalFrog definitely gonna need to get at least one of each because the iic mechs are genuinely the best clan mechs

[@Darren_Xero]

I'm not sure if making a Shadow Hawk IIC 10 tons lighter was an upgrade or a nerf from the original, while the Phoenix Hawk IIC was a massive upgrade from the original For this one, my favorite variant is the one with HAG 20, because HAG is king!

[@MechanicalFrog]

I think it might have been about keeping generally the same capabilities but in a smaller cheaper package.

[@angryscotsman93]

I will say, that 5 variant would be interesting to use as part of a team. Use a couple of these to shut down heavier 'mechs so that their buddies with the big guns can cut them to ribbons, perhaps?

[@MechanicalFrog]

It could absolutely be fun in a light hunting star.

[@lexington476]

I'm not funny the picture article on the blog, do you have a direct link to it? there's an article on tro 3055 but not on the Clan IIC mechs.

[@MechanicalFrog]

panther6actual.blogspot.com/p/battletech-3055-tro-clan-2c-mechs.html

[@nukenuked5749]

thanks mate loving the law

[@MechanicalFrog]

Glad to hear it

[@Psychohistorian42]

So the Clans turned the Shadow Hawk into a Phoenix Hawk? I'd continue the joke, but I'm not sure what the analogue would be for the Phoenix Hawk IIC

[@MechanicalFrog]

The Phoenix Hawk IIC is... sure something.

[@charlesballiet7074]

honestly it looks just like an inner sphere crusader

[@MechanicalFrog]

Hmm...

[@cinderanmagnus]

This is the first time I get a taste of the clan tech And I thought my build of the Shadow hawk in mechwarrior 5 was a monster Ow well I gues there's always a bigger fish

[@MechanicalFrog]

Always a bigger fish. We learned that playing Odel Lake on the Apple II classroom computer back in the day.

[@Eleolius]

I love Naomi Nagasawa's Remembrance line.

[@MechanicalFrog]

It's a good one.

[@sim.frischh9781]

While the HAG version (VI) has its charm, i personally prefer the ATM (Version IV) one, as it should have much more ammunition available. Though the X variant is great as well, i like the Medium Heavy Lasers as a short range defense weapon should an enemy get too close... wait, there are TWO X variants? Frankly speaking, the ShadowHawk IIC, despite its good looks and solid performance, is not my favorite. If i had to choose a IIC to fight in, it´s either the Warhammer or the Phoenix Hawk. Also we can thank Harri Kallio for the sweet new artwork, he really draws nice mechs. I like his take even better than the Project Phoenix takes by Chris Lewis and Matt Plog.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Fair. Though I like the lore rationale of this being as everywhere a design as the original SH.

[@sim.frischh9781]

@@MechanicalFrog It´s basic yet solid, a functional design, it certainly would be popular and thus widespread. And definitely much more affordable than any 80 ton mech.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Aff@@sim.frischh9781

[@clarkreamer4560]

Am I doing something wrong with my membership that I don't show up on the KZbin Members list?

[@MechanicalFrog]

Oh no! Let me check. KZbin doesn't notify me well enough.

[@MechanicalFrog]

You're on it now. Sorry about that.

[@clarkreamer4560]

Thank you. I am clearly doing it for the glory. Seriously, though, keep up the great work.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Thanks again. I really appreciate it. @@clarkreamer4560

[@sethharpenger607]

Why do I deep like the shadowhawk platform as a whole might as well be armored core designs

[@boneshaman8912]

Personally, this is how the IICs should have been done. Either a little heavier or lighter. Not going from medium weight to assault. I can accept the Marauder because one could argue it's a lighter Marauder2. The Warhammer, as much as i like it. I feel it should be between 65t - 75t. But many argue that it's a Warhammer, Phoenix Hawk, ect in name only and isn't really a clan tech upgrade.

[@MechanicalFrog]

The Phoenix Hawk is definitely an outlier as far as IICs go.

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

​@@MechanicalFrog Well, it wasn't meant as a Phoenix Hawk to begin with.

[@bthsr7113]

This is decidedly not a jack of all trades in the prime configuration. It is a short to medium range skirmisher.

[@MechanicalFrog]

There are a lot of jobs that fit under that umbrella.

[@bthsr7113]

@@MechanicalFrog It definitely lost range and overall flexibility. It's more lethal, but there is a much more defined role with the prime's armaments.

[@SHDW-nf2ki]

If your a clanner looking for a mobile sniper unit, just get a Puma.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Aff.

[@HeadHunterSix]

The Inner Sphere spent centuries iterating on the Shadow Hawk, and never managed to do anything but polish a turd. The Clans gave it a _purpose_ (though the IIC-V is still a turd) . I would not be ashamed or embarrassed to drive one of these.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Clans = 1, IS= 0

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

Hey, the royal Shadow Hawk is pretty aggressive with a distinct role.

[@shawnarmitage7955]

God, guns, and Battletech.

[@MechanicalFrog]

:D

[@Richy0326]

The original Shadow Hawk is one of my favourite mechs. Losing the shoulder mounted autocannon means the IIC doesn't do it for me in the looks department. Still a decent brawler though.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Aff. Losing the shoulder gun hurts.

[@DIEGhostfish]

Thankfully many of the variants seem to at least bring back an energy based shoulder cannon. Some even get TWO.

[@charless1145]

I hate the IIC, but I'm a Hunchie diehard. Without sacking too much armor, you can get the 4p to go 85kph. She runs hot, but it's manageable. You can alpha and redrum enemies caught out of position

[@DIEGhostfish]

The Space Mechs are just massively outclassed by LAMs whic are massively outclassed by true Aeros.

[@wilemelliott]

The Jack Of All Trades is master of none, but oft times better than a master of one!

[@MechanicalFrog]

True that.

[@justincase9282]

Ashley Pollard is an awesome person.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Every piece of evidence I have seen backs this claim.

[@justincase9282]

@@MechanicalFrog the fact she designed the Marauder IIC would forgive any sin she ever committed.

[@MechanicalFrog]

That's fair. @@justincase9282

[@wraith7989]

The IIC loses the trait that made the original so special. Its ability to blow all the paint off of other mechs in 2-5 point groups while not doing any real damage.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Ah yes... the ShadowHawk Special.

[@RecklessFables]

Seeing the words " medium improved heavy laser" makes me somewhat understand the 3025 zealots. Good grief that's a dumb weapon name

[@MechanicalFrog]

It's such a pain to write into the scripts because my brain is constantly changing the order of the words.

[@wartmcbeighn]

While I am not a huge fan of the 2C with the streak 2's ( 4 of them? just no)..the 2 C 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 ( funny....all even numbers) I have used to good effect in games

[@MechanicalFrog]

They can be fun.

[@DIEGhostfish]

I hate all versions of the Shadowhawk IIC that don't have a shoulder gun in homage to the classic.

[@MechanicalFrog]

That's fair.

[@Echo1608.]

This is the most mobile suit looking battlemech I've seen, and I am 100% down for it.

[@MechanicalFrog]

I can see that.

[@DIEGhostfish]

Yeah I'd much rather take a Liao Plasma Rifle over a Clan Plasma Cannon.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Both have their pluses.

[@SteelWolf13]

01:55 I never liked the anime style reworks. Not talking about the stats. The artwork.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Ah, to each his/her own I suppose. :D

[@andrewszigeti2174]

I love the look of the original SHD-2H, but it's SUCH a disappointment to play. The -2K is better, but still rather weak. In the end, combining the smallest SRM, the smallest LRM, a light AC, and a medium laser is not enough firepower for a 55-ton mech.

[@MechanicalFrog]

I agree with this assessment.

[@dustybunny6716]

Blame Disney for putting Florida on the map of everyone. Bet no one wanted to visit till Disneyworld.

[@MechanicalFrog]

O_o

[@ChaosTicket]

I don't like the original Shadow Hawk. Its a mismash of too many ideas without practicality to it. Its half as good as a Griffin at range and almost as bad compared to a Wolverine up close. Oh and it also has a measly 3 Jump Jets, well under what it should have. The Shadow Hawk IIC on the other hand is a very proficient high speed, and close range unit. Its main flaw is just that it has nothing for long range combat.

[@MechanicalFrog]

The og Shadowhawk is definitely not high on my list of mechs I would pick for a fight.