Why does Judo has less MMA champions?

Coach answers questions about Judo in MMA, how and why some people use it more effectively than others. What's the best base to be a mma champion?
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[@xkidmidnightx]

They aren’t allowed to compete in other sports if they want to stay in the IJF

[@moustachio334]

That is a sham(e)

[@zBryRobinson]

Ijf Gotta keep their investments

[@mindmusclemobility]

#freejudo

[@JudoHighlights2015]

Yes, this is true. And a lot of judoka that are from strong judo countries live very comfortably. For example, UZB, RUS, JPN, GEO, Etc.

[@phil245]

100%. Not sure about the prize money for all major judo tournaments, but tokyo grand slam was $150k, and there's several grand slams a year. Starting in mma they'd have less earning potential, and also lose the support of national teams

[@SV-bo8yn]

Judo-competitor here. The answer is actually pretty simple: the IJF (the big judo organization) has a non-competition clause, meaning that judo players are not allowed to compete for the IJF as well as the UFC. Because judo is an Olympic sport, in a lot of countries (not the USA - which also answers why the 'known' judo-MMA athletes come from the US), a judo professional athlete will be state-funded, meaning that if they decide to transition MMA, they will lose their primary source of income. I hope this helps!

[@pira416]

Khabib Nurmagomedov actually has a black belt in Judo. I recently saw a video of Islam Makhachev teaching judo to some students, and he also has a black belt as well. Sambo's grappling background contains elements of both judo and wrestling.

[@W1LDtracer]

Basically, sport sambo is judo without "straight back" posture, -chokes +leg locks

[@gudea5207]

But rarely do you see them use it instead of a takedown

[@faithalone5081]

​@@saltymember1062no he said judo is harder to be elite then wrestling because their is only one IJF there are many styles of wrestling and many comps for wrestling

[@brandonsadventurechannel9806]

Sambo has leg attacks though.

[@redearthpaul178]

Im a bjj black belt, i took up judo a few years ago and an going for my black this year. I has helped my bkj and wrestling immensely. The uchi mata and ashi techniques have increased my entries to singles, doubles and bodylocks immensely, something not really taught in freestyle or Greco. However i just bought a old book 'the art of wrestling' by george de relwyskow and almost everything is also a move in judo. We've all been wrestling 10k years its all juat rules

[@ericfierro1693]

Wrestling is wrestling is wrestling

[@pupper5580]

@@ericfierro1693 You forgot something. Wrestling is also wrestling.

[@stillgotyourmom]

​@@pupper5580Yall forgot that Bjj is actually just Judo on the ground 😂

[@tomjones6347]

The human body is the same all over the world and throughout all of history. What works, works.

[@pupper5580]

@@tomjones6347 just want to adjust my nerd glasses and be a smartass. There are people with freak strength or freak flexibility, or freak limb lengths or sizes, and freak neck size, etc. Some techniques don't work against freak strength. There's also freak size, like people who have much bigger bodies and frames than other people. To give a stupid example, there was a fight of karate master vs a very large man. The karate fighter punched his fists broken to the large man's face, result: karate guys hands are broken, large man took zero damage.

[@ClickClack_Bam]

Karo Parisyan was a fantastic judoka. Imo he had the most beautiful takedowns. My background is in judo. I was into it before the first UFC in 1993. Against wrestlers judo was a fantastic addition to my grappling toolbox & vice versa. I actually CAN'T believe that no other sport teaches breakfalls. Imo wrestling's biggest con is they don't teach you how to fall safely. I never once was slammed hard in wrestling ever. You can almost always pull a decent breakfall from being thrown unless it's a Fedor v Randleman type suplex etc. Breakfalls should imo be taught in kindergarten. Breakfalls supercede the sport of judo. They're the most useful physical thing I've ever been taught that I could apply to such a wide range of things. Slip on ice, breakfall Fall down steps, breakfall Lose your balance breakfall Playing a sport, skateboarding, fall from a chair, fall off a ladder... Breakfall, breakfall, breakfall.

[@Disinfo321]

The fact that you think a lack of breakfalling is hindering the level of the sport is mindblowing. I’m lost for words. I don’t know a top 5 ufc fighter in recent memory that has suffered due to not “break falling”

[@ClickClack_Bam]

@@Disinfo321 Where did I say that? Quote the FUCKING line I posted that said that. Learn how to read before your embarrass yourself even further.

[@ClickClack_Bam]

@@Disinfo321 Are you on the spectrum? You don't think that in a sport like wrestling that learning how to NOT get slammed is important lol??? What a joke! Sprawling in wrestling attempts to stop being picked up but then it fails after they doesn't work. Have you ever learned how to wrestle or am I talking to a guy who thinks he can watch grappling but NEVER understood really what the sport ACTUALLY is? I'm lost for words that your brain CAN'T fathom WTF learning a breakfall adds to your toolbox.

[@arama0010]

John Danaher talks in length of the danger of body weight falling and injuring so many people in Jiu Jitsu. Best Jits coach ever.@@Disinfo321

[@redearthpaul178]

I fell down the stairs a few years ago and did a breakfall. My son, who saw it, still laughs that I did it automatically. I'm like 'yeah, but I didn't break my spine'?

[@danielmontilla1197]

You need to be developing no-gi Judo for it to be practical in MMA. But the thing is, doing no-gi Judo is not as simply as taking your jackets off and go at it. Hand fighting is too much different from grip fighting, the distances are also very different, BUT there's a LOT of potential for a no-gi Judo meta if you think about it: all the benefits from greco but with leg attacks.

[@misterwilliam]

This makes a lot of sense to me. Additionally I feel that no gi judo has really gotten much better understood in the last couple of years (largely in the BJJ field). I think that we will start to see this knowledge transition to the MMA world in the next couple of years.

[@danielmontilla1197]

@@misterwilliam I really hope so. Another potential advantage of Judo for MMA is its submissions mentality, you work your subs (or your pins) immediately after the throw, so the focus is on top position and standing-to-submission transitions, which is something wrestling and BJJ don't offer quite the same. If BJJ guys or free-thinking judokas take the initiative developing no-gi Judo it could really be the next big thing in grappling.

[@danieltiller1421]

It's got nothing to do with that. Plenty of Judokas already train some Nogi Jiujitsu and most already complement with wrestling training. The Olympics is still the pinnacle for Judokas particularly in countries like Mongolia/Georgia. Listen to guys like Khabib on this - Judo is one of the hardest sports to medal in.(harder and more competitive than even wrestling) If the top guys start coming to MMA they will do very very well.

[@JohnLocke1776]

No-gi Judo is basically freestyle wrestling, granted there's some leg entanglements/attacks specific to Judo that sets it apart. Idk the name of it, but that fight-ending throw fedor hit Chael Sonnen with, a cartwheel looking throw was sic! Firas spoke about the way Fedor punched his way into the clinch, that worked for that era of MMA when footwork, angles was practically non existent. I wonder if guys utilize what Floyd Mayweather does how he bends the rules of boxing punching into the clinch or using head movement/ducking under counter punches into tie-ups, throws could be executed from there

[@danielmontilla1197]

@@JohnLocke1776 I used to think no-gi Judo and freestyle wrestling were essentially the same too, but not anymore. They both play out differently, specially comparing American style wrestling with lock-on Judo styles. The posture, the ground game, the submissions, it's just different

[@MarijuanaGuy]

It's 3 things mainly 1) Judokas tend to only care about judo. The IJF has a clause where they aren't allowed to compete elsewhere professionally but even so i think most pro judokas ignore other martial arts entirely. 2) They generally lack the ability to transfer their judo to the no-gi environment. A lot of judokas turn into brawlers who only occasionally go for a takedown or they turn into wrestlers, mainly going for lower body attacks. 3) Judo is hell on the joints, almost all elite judokas who come to mma have like 3-4 decent years before their body completely breaks down. Dan Kelly is an excellent unfortunate example of this.

[@a5a346]

Im assuming Judo is bad on the joints cuz of the crazy throws or are there more reasons?

[@W1LDtracer]

ye too much throws. I badly hurt my knee just in big falls training((@@a5a346

[@basse9914]

Damn bro I was debating training bjj vs judo and went with judo nc it's half as cheap That's too bad ab the joints

[@MarijuanaGuy]

@a5a346 Yes its a very chaotic sport and the risk for catastrophic injury is high though I'm not sure about the actual occurrence. Also the absolute elite of the sport, the judokas in the Olympics have been practicing judo intensively along with strength and conditioning work since they were kids. It's a lot of wear&tear on the joints

[@a5a346]

@@MarijuanaGuy i see, that makes sense. I’m assuming u train Judo so I’ll ask this, how do u recommend someone stay as healthy as possible training it?

[@jasonmarquez5776]

Pride had a Judo fighter (Hidehiko Yoshida) who gave Wanderlei Silva a tough fight. He also submitted Don Frye with an armbar.

[@phil245]

And royce

[@tc106]

Pretty sure he fought in UFC to. What a lot people don't know is Don Frey was judoka black belt as well. However, he just used his wrestling for takedowns.

[@estogaza5827]

Don Fry also had a judo background.

[@sidhu139]

@jasonmarquez5776 funny that you should mention it. There used to be this weird guy who would come to our neighborhood to sell corn on the cob. His name was Hidehiko Yoshida. Ge used to say " I fought against Don Frye, I beat him". We all used to think he was just a crazy old guy, and we would throw water balloons at home.

[@estogaza5827]

@@tc106 So if I watch Don Frye compilations I’m not going to see Judo. You sure about that?

[@danieltiller1421]

IJF doesn't allow competitors to compete in MMA. Countries like France and Mongolia with strong Judo programmes churn out a many athletes who would excel at MMA.

[@Graciekiller32]

Why do they do that?

[@datonefaridze1503]

Georgia > both of them. It's about they don't h ave anything to grab, which is stupic cuz in real life you wear clothes

[@DL401175]

@@datonefaridze1503 Wearing clothes that are suitable for grabbing on to isn’t necessarily guaranteed every where you live. Some climates are hotter and therefore the clothing worn in those areas is thinner. Someone wearing strong clothes isn’t guaranteed

[@danieltiller1421]

It's nothing to do with Gi grips. JiuJitsu guys have done very well in MMA, same with Sambo - both wear Gi's. @@datonefaridze1503

[@axcelblack2808]

@@Graciekiller32 Money mostly. THey have a rule where if you compete in IJF competitions at a high level you cant compete for other organisations. The IJF is a business after all, thats not entirely a bad thing as it encourages standardization, organization of tournaments, competitions, rules etc, but the trade off is they have immense power over the athletes. its also worth noting Kano the founder of Judo frowned in prize fighting and this also goes into the "explanation" as to why the IJF frowns on MMA. One of the reasons Jiu Jitsu in Brazil isnt called Judo is that many of the men from Judo who went to Brazil to compete "Maeda for example" called themselves Jiu Jitsu practitioners so as not to break the Kodokan rule of no Prizefighting. Brazillian Jiu Jitsu is literally just submission Judo but for historical reasons we dont call it that.

[@benkeating3053]

Most countries heavily sponsor their top level Judo athletes. Judoka from countries like Japan, France, Korea, UAE, Mongolia, all around the world are state sponsored athletes that would take a significant pay cut moving to mixed martial arts; additionally, many top athletes have careers at top company's waiting for them when they've retired from the competitive circuit in those countries.

[@rollotomassi8251]

Fedor was phenomenal. His resume alone is inspiring. The way he won his fights and often the smaller guy. And humble Nr 1 in my book

[@Disinfo321]

In fairness smaller heavyweights can do great. Fedor, cain, DC, Werdum, nogueira brothers

[@BenT800]

​@@Disinfo321I'm still surprised to this day that DC is 5'9

[@StimmedPenguin]

Judo in MMA requires learning timing and transitioning from striking to the clinch like how boxers can stall a fight by timing their clinches, a judoka wanting to use judo can begin their fight using the same strategy. A little Boxing, Sanda, Muay Thai, and Free Style Wrestling cross training will round out a judoka really well of how to time different strikes and how using different strikes will act as a form of kazushi, blend in hybrid judo/thai sweeps and clinch work.

[@reallymakesyouthink]

I really like the Judo upper body takedown. It makes a lot of sense in MMA. You aren't at risk of catching a knee like a single or double leg takedown plus in theory it should be more effective against guys who defend with their backs to the cage. I'm surprised we don't see it more.

[@jeffs3119]

You’ll see it if you pay attention, mostly in the Dagestani fighters. Islam is a prime example. Judo and Sambo are big in Russia, and sambo shares a ton of Judo techniques. He does it often against the fence or in stand up to get opponents to the ground to handcuff them and stuff them against the fence. He’s gotten some fantastic Harais, uchi matas , inside and outside sweeps.

[@reallymakesyouthink]

@@jeffs3119 Good point. There was another guy from that region with a long name who had good judo aswell.

[@jesshockley1766]

the sweat and gloves make it harder to grip to get good throws. Plus the cage makes it harder get a good throw as well.

[@JJDon5150]

@@jeffs3119 Sambo originated from Judo. What's funny is that people say Judo isn't effective, but both BJJ and Sambo originated from Judo. So all of them share a lot of the same moves. Good point on the Dagestani fighters as well. People try to say their wrestling is great, but a lot of it also has to do with their Judo takedowns and trips which compliments their wrestling.

[@stillgotyourmom]

​@@JJDon5150I say this all day but as usual people are uneducated!

[@deuteronomycurse3221]

Great to have your input coach

[@marcusaurelius2773]

Always insightful, coach.

[@NateNateNate5678]

Yoshihiro Akiyama (aka, Sexyama) was the first that cane to mind for me. His fight with Chris Leben was my first exposure to judo in a real mma fight, and i thought it was cool. There were some nice applications of it in the movie Never Back Down, which is what got me into mma in thr first place. I searched youtube for months to figure out how to do hip throws because of that movie lol

[@tophernolastname2378]

As a hardcore JMMA fan Coach Firas, here's my simple take on Judo in MMA: the Judoka who can take a punch & aren't afraid of getting hit succeed, the Judoka who are afraid to get hit don't so much. Case in point: Fedor, Hidehiko Yoshida, Karo Parisyan, Kaz Nakamura, Sexyama. None afraid to get hit, all made it to the top-10. Satoshi Ishii, Olympic Judo medalist, doesn't take a punch well, hasn't succeeded much in MMA. Even Ronda lost once she fought a pair of elite boxers, esp. Holm. Judo is known as the gentle art, so despite it having so much slamming, there's no actual direct brain damage like boxing, so not many Judoka like getting punched. Shinya Aoki also comes from a Judo background (therw's a highlihgt of his college Judo matches on YT somewhere) and he much like ronda is a Newaza specialist. The Judoka who focus on Newaza can get amazing submissions, and while Aoki & Ronda don't like getting hit, you need to charge forward & not be afraid to get hit to close distance and use your Newaza. Most Newaza specialists coaches teach them to round out their kickbox first instead of closing the distance & getting a trip. The trips are finally why so many women do Judo. The low center of gravity & wide hips help with leverage for obvious reasons. You can actually watch a lot of really cool grappling moves when you watch sub-125-lb women's Judo because of this. They can flip through the air & do stuff you just won't see in 135+ women's Judo, or any other grapplinh really, male or female.

[@billcipher3946]

You still get concussions in judo the.

[@tophernolastname2378]

​@@billcipher3946 Not as much as in boxing or kickboxing.

[@BiggieSmalls946]

Hector Lombard was a Bellator champ and ranked in the ufc. He was a national judo champ.

[@Disinfo321]

Didn’t do anything in the UFC and his success came from having ridiculous power because he’s a freak on the best supplements.

[@stillgotyourmom]

​@@Disinfo321Are you BJJler? 😂 Then take Fedor, Rousey, Khabib that dominated with Judo. Stop crying!

[@MrCarloArellano]

holy cow this insight on Fedor is phenomenal

[@CROSSNSHOOT]

Coach- Yoshihiro Akiyama was a Gold medalist in Asia games. Very solid player also who fought in the UFC

[@axcelblack2808]

Akiyama was also a Judo Prodigy, an elite of the elite.

[@johnjcroh8315]

Thanks man!

[@gudea5207]

Most important issue with Judo being used in MMA is the rules of Judo encourage the ippon which is ANY amount of full back exposure with power. Which means that the Judo throw can be landed without you ending up in a dominant position at the end of the throw. Many of the mechanics of Judo force the Judoka to roll threw because the momentum is so great. Imagine taking someone down only to end up on bottom mount or your back taken which happened a lot for a fighter like Karo Parisian. Why Ronda was successful was she threw and immediately followed up with an arm bar (probably the best weapon in a Judokas arsenal in MMA) even if she wasn’t in the “dominant” position.

[@germanicusternus1982]

Coach you are so spot on. Why don’t you do commentary? You would add so much to a broadcast.

[@HeihachiT]

I think it has to do with the fact that MMA fights are in nogi (fight almost naked) and have padded mats. Judo has its roots in real fighting in warfare where usually you are wearing clothes (or even armor) and the ground is not padded. In this environment, Judo is very effective. In an environment where you fight naked and the ground is padded, bjj and wrestling are effective. I guess if there were MMA rules where you had to wear a gi and the floors were less padded, you would see more Judo being applied.

[@viridionwaves]

Excellent question! Was wondering this myself. Can you do a more in depth dive on this topic? Why Judo isn't more prevalent/successful in mma?

[@danielmontilla1197]

If you add more nuance to the issue it becomes even more interesting. In Western MMA it's not, but in Eastern mixed combat sports Judo is the bread and butter. Combat Sambo and Kūdo are basically MMA minus the BJJ component, there you can see the more "martial" side of Judo.

[@stillgotyourmom]

​@@danielmontilla1197total Bull

[@sonnythebigbearliston8442]

Incredible insight as usual coach Firas. Women indeed seem to participate more in judo, I personally think it's because it's touted more as a self defense martial art and more made for smaller people fighting bigger opponents, thus not relying on strength as much as wrestling does. I think the physical/strength disparities among adult men and women are often too big which deters them from wrestling and instead turn to martial arts like bjj/judo.

[@zartic4life]

That "collision" Fedor did is called Kazushi which you need for almost every takedown in Judo outside of maybe sweeps which require more timing.

[@crzabjj]

Professor don’t you think if there was no gi judo like BJJ that would help judo translate to MMA better? Or is there and I’m just unaware?

[@paulmoeller6730]

Double leg takedown = morote gari in Judo (I think it's "both hands reap"). You see it in older competition footage. For some reason unknown to me they banned grabbing the legs from competition.

[@Ray-wp4ji]

Its for the beauty of competition, a throw or sweep is just seen as more impresive in the eyes of judokas

[@slamdunktiger]

Olympic Rule set took it out. Blame them.

[@stillgotyourmom]

​@@Ray-wp4jiIts bull! Teddy Riner is only pushing down and the smaller Japanese get puniched for going in low! Its just pathetic

[@johnnymac4927]

Hughes learned what a Taiotoshi was in his second fight with GSP. It worked extremely well on him.

[@David-fv2hj]

Can you create a tutorial on JKB- judo kickboxing- was created in Cuba. Looks awesome but no practitioners near me and no online tutorials.

[@billgo4th]

Things are changing though, the growth of girls wrestling is getting larger in the US by the year. Also, sooo many kids are cross-training in Judo/BJJ/Wrestling. I'm excited to see the next Gen MMA fighters. Serval of the kids in my gym including my own kids are cross-training in all three.

[@Roberto-de8xv]

Jmo the elite wrestlers that want to go D1 & possibly win a title are all year round training..folkstyle during the season & maybe in the off-season do freestyle/Greco-Roman

[@nitrox1613]

Yes someone like Bella Mir (No Suprise is Frank Mir’s daughter) practiced wrestling in high school and is a beast in college now at Iowa. She’s undefeated in MMA rn and has crazy potential

[@desistang8794]

It's much simpler: there is no no-gi judo, which means there's no improvement in no-gi skills, and talent remains concentrated within gi judo. Consequently, when most practitioners transition to MMA, they find it much more challenging to execute takedowns without the gi. Therefore, they tend to focus on incorporating jiu-jitsu and wrestling for takedowns, as these are easier paths to adapt to MMA than adjusting no gi judo-based techniques because there is no experts to teach. Not to mention a lot of no gi judo doesn't work when the opppenents go for the leg

[@vedu8519]

Judo had leg grabs up until like 10 years ago. Not sure what you're talking about.

[@estogaza5827]

Nah, you’re just guessing. This isn’t backed up by anything.

[@angelsjoker8190]

Double leg TD aka Morote Gari is an original Kodokan Judo throw. It's only rather recently that it's not allowed in Olympic competition anymore.

[@gwashington65]

Why was the double leg removed?

[@EvoGoody]

Judo is awesome. My chosen and favourite martial art and always will be. I think top mma fighters generally have an excellent TDD though.

[@crazynutt111]

Its simple, they're just not very interested in MMA. Judo is a giant global sport and takes a lifetime to achieve the high levels. Prime Judoka want to achieve World and Olympic Medals. Look at world class Muay Thai practitioners, the most badass strikers on the planet and how many of them do you see in MMA? Numbers aren't everything, but there is no denying that the ones who have transitioned over have done very well. Only a handful of Judo players went to MMA and most of them champions or top contenders 👏👏 Kayla H - World Champion Ronda R - World Champion Fedor - World Champion Hector Lombard - World Champion Karo - Top contender as you said Yoshida - Submitted Royce in Pride

[@brunovass8981]

well the floor in mma fights absorbs the impact of the throws, if you manage to get a good throw to someone to concrete he is not standing up.

[@1fastmex]

Much respect. Fedor was a Sambo guy 🙏🏼

[@DM-sy4hg]

They never train without the gi. If they did, it would maybe replace wrestling in MMA. It's so efficient and the stance is closer to a striking stance than wrestling is. Watch how Ronda punches into a clinch against Alexis Davis, I believe her name is, grabs her and throws her almost in one motion. It just all fit together. Judokas refuse to train without the gi though.

[@Urmomma5f4t]

Most judo clubs that want to grow big and become successful are seeking out Olympic aspirations. Training no gi for them isn’t the same as a BJJ guy doing it. In BJJ plenty of comps exist for no gi and gi. In judo not so much. So the focus makes sense from a teaching perspective . It’s like asking how come a boxer doesn’t train kicks. Well because In boxing they’re not worried about kicks and they tend to compete under boxing rules. Not to say no gi isn’t useful to know (I think it is) but just their reasoning based on ruleset and the competition scene in judo makes scene completely

[@leezap]

Gi is a reflection of the concentration on Judo techniques. I think the wrestlers are just physically stronger because of the nature of the sport. Weight lifting is a must for wrestlers but I don't think it is emphasized in the Eastern culture of Japan.

[@DM-sy4hg]

@@leezap it's not strength. It's a reliance on the gi, and then when it is not there, they do not have the practice time in to execute the throw without it.

[@oreocarlton3343]

Fedor was so original, I have a feeling there is still a gap for greco-judo approach in MMA compared to wrestling

[@p.l.5860]

Wasn't Khabib a black belt Judo? Did he use much Judo?

[@johnbaptist7082]

yes

[@burgerkang3249]

Khabib didn't use much Judo. You never watched his fights?

[@pelejahosoba4032]

​@@burgerkang3249you don't know what you are saying

[@burgerkang3249]

@@pelejahosoba4032 He literally never used much Judo aside from a few inside trips against the cage and one throw against RDA. He mostly employed low singles and folkstyle leg riding that he learned at AKA (an American gym). Islam Mackachev, however, uses more judo than Khabib (not only takedown wise but threatens arm bars, most popular judo lock, way more)

[@Disinfo321]

@@burgerkang3249when has Islam threatened arm bars… khabib built a career of trips and takedowns from the cage, even if many takedowns weren’t from judo, the balance to control the position and know where your weight should be comes from Judo. It’s like saying Demian Maia didn’t use BJJ vs Masvidal because he didn’t choke him out, his BJJ controlled the positions.

[@user-nr2ih3bv1l]

Give your thoughts on Tsarukyan vs Oliveria

[@gregghumphreys6320]

I was the Judo and SAMBO coach at Miletich Fighting Systems for 14 years. In my experience most Judoka are not interested in MMA and most MMA guys don't have an interest in Judo.

[@sambonationHQ]

🔥 Fedor was better then the other Judo guys because his style was Combat Sambo 😂

[@stillgotyourmom]

Combat Sambo is Judo and hitting!

[@Basta11]

In the US, the talent pool is mostly biased toward wrestling. Practically every high school has a wrestling program. It’s a well established system. How many US high schools have an in house Judo programs? I didn’t know of any school with a Dojo. Maybe now with the popularity of BJJ, more public schools can have Dojos for Judo and BJJ and others.

[@alekterziev9931]

A mix of Greco Roman and judo would work great in mma Islam Makachev has insane foot sweeps too

[@jasonrose6288]

MMA is a construct. Competitors fight without tops of any sort. They fight on a sprung floor. Bouts commence at a distance. Fighters wear gloves. Many of the rules may - inadvertently - favour certain styles over others. It is what it is. Focus on what objectively works best if you want to succeed at MMA. But drawing broader conclusions on the utility of one fighting art over another based on what works in the UFC is very narrow.

[@axcelblack2808]

The real reason has to do with sambo. Fedor wanted to do Sambo professionally but he didnt have the money to train with the ether the top or one of the top teams so he went into MMA. Sambo has evolved Judos takedowns in more of an assault style. they have all the traditional Seoi Nage, Tai Otoshi, Harai O Goshi but they also developed an immense amount of trips and off balancing takedowns from assaulting into the clinch. Judo doesnt have this as its purely a jacket Wrestling sport where Sambo has grappling and an MMA version (Fedor did the MMA version) Judo takedowns work very well if you train it primarily from an assault perspecive, you see Makachev and Khabib did this although both did Judo and Sambo.

[@stillgotyourmom]

well its made to defend not to money compete!

[@benchappell4914]

I def agree with you on the point of women’s mma and the 8-8 record .. the only male fighter I can even think of is mark hunt

[@moha8916]

In France we have baysangur chamsoudinov who come from judo and use it well in mma

[@altanbilen5928]

Whats the best race for MMA? Thats what i wanna know

[@London2ATL]

Did you see how the Hulk smashed Phil Hawes this past weekend in UFC, the couple of times they grappled, he actually used Judo take downs, I think the first time he went for wrestling take down which Hawes stuffed, after that he just used his judo. Pretty effective, I'm looking forward to more of his fights.

[@naughtybynature999]

Speaking as a super beginner practitioner, to me optics wise judo techniques/stances look a lot more vulnerable than regular wrestling. Like if my opp is standing toe to toe with me and we start off in striking stances, I can more readily slip his punches or kicks and transition to a wrestling takedown. With judo though it feels like that transition isn't as smooth because judokas grapple from a more upright position. Again though, beginners perspective.

[@LightBender777]

Valentina Shevchenko also has black belt in Judo which she has used to devastating effect in her title run and career.

[@sushinfudoshin8991]

The other and more important point, in my opinion, is that Judo is very taxing on the body. By the time you reach the top, you have run out of mileage. Karo was never a world beater in Judo, and is pretty unknown on the IJF circuit. The only and only world beater that transitioned to MMA is Kayla Harrison. She has a record of 208 wins and 50 losses in Judo, including 2 gold olympic medals, 1 gold WC and 2 bronze medals. Besides there is little interest to transition to MMA. The other judo guy is Karl Amoussou, with much less stellar achievements in Judo.

[@brutallyhonest3574]

100% this. Rhonda Rousey was successfully largely because she, herself, was years ahead of the competition. Her grappling pedigree made nearly unstoppable until she started facing opponents with much better standup that were able to show how ineffective her own striking really was.

[@wuhaowen1471]

I have a judo background, I would say judo is better during a striking exchange, wrestling is better when go straight to a take-down. If someone try to punch me or kick me, it would leave tones of opens for judo throws. I would say judo take people down more passively or opportunity dependent than wrestling. However, the biggest advantage of judo throws is that if the thrower did not over commit to a throw, it would usually ends up in a side control or standing on the side of the opponent while the opponent is on the back. It give way better advantages than a double leg or single leg in case they usually ends up in full guard. Sadly, I'm yet to see any man utilize it, but the former female champion (don't know how to spell her name sorry)

[@Herc11355]

How is Karo not your first choice? We've yet to see anyone else like him since. But you can't say that fedor was a pure Judoka . He was a sambo guy (who obviously do Judo) but his based was more mixed then Karo who came up as more of a traditional Judoka.

[@SIickTurtIe]

Tbh fedor excelled cus he could use the bounce from the ring ropes for his tosses. Harder to pull off in a cage.

[@gordy3714]

Who was the I think the Brazilian guy who fought Matt Hughes, matt eventually won the fight but was in serious trouble a few times in that bout.

[@ClickClack_Bam]

You talking about Carlos Newton? He had Hughes in a triangle choke & Hughes actually went unconscious but dumb ass ref John McCarthy couldn't recognize a successful triangle choke even if he himself taught a jj class the day before. Hughes later admitted he was totally unconscious & came to & was awarded the win. I mean you can see him go limp in the video.

[@ClickClack_Bam]

If you did mean Carlos Newton, he's Canadian.

[@gordy3714]

@@ClickClack_Bam Renato Verassimo it's on KZbin I wish Firas would go back and review some of these great fights back in the day as a part of a Retro Series. 👍

[@ClickClack_Bam]

@@gordy3714 Oh ok. I remember him. I love the old fights.

[@Disinfo321]

@@ClickClack_Bamit’s insane that an elite athlete could get koed from an unconscious person flopping to the floor without slamming. He himself is largely to blame for getting koed like that, if an unconscious hughes could ko him a conscious one could.

[@yogsothoth-tz2bu]

The reason is because if you win in judo, you get paid by your goverment(at least the countrys where judo is big like France or japan). Just look at Riner , that dude would be a monster in mma but he is a national hero in france and is set up for life. Also you can become a national coach like Inoue did , so yeah , because judo is an olympic sport it can become a respectable profession and with no brain damage . There is no money in bjj unless you win an adcc and make videos or you run an academy or go into mma and that grind is way harder than judo.

[@giorgialeksandria6665]

Fedor Emelianenko was not a JUDOKA. he was competing in Combat Sambo.

[@frandywillianspena1999]

He was also a judoka and sambo has a wrestling and judo base

[@moefinesse9878]

He is a judoka and sambo. Sambo is originally from judo.

[@Bigboss41510]

It’s called Sambo/Judo in Russia

[@lps8966]

wrestling is the best base MA for both mma and self defend

[@marke219]

Karo was one of my favorites

[@neilchung3813]

Check out Yoshihiro Akiyama. I witnessed high-level judo techniques integrated into mma in his ufc fights

[@anderandersson5229]

This gets me reality riled up talking about Judo. Double leg throwing their Judo out the door? För Rhonda (who wasnt that good) got the best foundation to build on from her judo background.

[@robinbarrett6671]

Fedor and Rhonda. Also, Judo was different years ago they attacked legs etc. now it is banned so less effective.

[@piotrzawadzki1892]

Judo and wrestling has got different movement pattern. That's the biggest difference IMHO. In wrestling you want your opponent to back up to get space for your shot, in judo you never want to follow your opponent because you're gonna walk into their big forward throws. The gi also changes what is a high procentage technique. Single legs can be countered with sacrifice throws and uchi matas much easier when you don't have to fight for dominant grip and can grab just anywhere on the jacket. Hip & shoulder throws require forward movement from uke in no-gi, in the gi you can force it by using gi grips for kuzushi.

[@leezap]

Also in the West, weight lifting is emphasized. Wrestlers look like they have been weight training. Judo seems to emphasize more on techniques.

[@tylerscott2116]

I've always thought the clinch nuanced disciplines: Judo, Greco Roman Wrestling, and Muay Thai was the ultimate combination of disciplines for MMA.

[@Anthony-nd7ld]

Judo and wrestling are of course very similar the only thing is all about adaptation, wrestling has single and double legs and it’s more easy to adapt to mma compte to judo because of timing, judo use grips to sleeve and neck then after fighting without gi fighters need to use timing footwork compare to wrestling which it’s footwork is essential, both are fantastic but just one point for wrestling for legs and footwork but respect to both

[@Charismaniac]

Fedor is a Sambo master, not a pure judoka. Judokas aren't often allowed to compete in other formats which is why there are so few of them in mma. The IJF is very strict on this issue.

[@chrisprad8325]

Single legs and double legs exist in judo. Morote gari, while not allowed in competitions is a still a judo technique. When adapting Judo into mma, shooting should be the main way judoka’s enter clinch situations

[@facts-never-lies3160]

It's a fact that judo didn't evolve like bjj and wrestling in the MMA world, but judo is an amazing base matrial art. Judo is similar to wrestling and bjj. Judo teaches explosiveness, strength, techniques, athleticism, and power. Knowing Judo will really benefit a person who is cross-train to bjj and wrestling.

[@lungzs]

education and puzzles for the brain is the best base 🐶

[@uncircumcisedcircus]

I think Judos teachings of Kuzushi, push pull theory and use of momentum are invaluable. Wrestling doesn't really teach these as individual concepts.

[@IzzySharkawy]

🥊

[@ummerkasana]

It's also due to shifting metas, just like video games. If you see a ton of tanks in your games, you'll find one guy who starts choosing characters that are strong against tanks. And he cleans up the division. All of a sudden, people think this new style of character is the strongest. So they all pick this style of character. Naturally, this type of character is weak against assassins. So one guy will pick an assassin and clean out the division. Now everyone thinks assassins are the best. On another note, there used to be a strong weight-cutting meta in MMA (still kinda is). But people are slowly discovering that being in a weight class closer to your walking weight has huge benefits. We saw a glimpse of this when Anthony Johnson went up to 205 from 170 and had WAY more success. Before this, people discovered the weight-cutting meta. it forced guys like Faber (145) to 135. Frankie Edgar used to be 155 champ, and was forced to go down to 135. Aldo (145 champ) down to 135. Jon Jones came by along with big 205ers and forced Machida/Shogun to 185. My examples are all over the place, but it's happened in every UFC era. There was a meta in terms of weight, physical builds, fighting styles, etc. The GSP era showed us that being extremely well-rounded has tremendous benefits, so everyone took this to be one the most important things a UFC fighter could aspire to if they want to be successful. Others championed the model of getting extremely good at one style, and decent in other areas. I think Judo will have its turn soon. The sport is extremely young in the grand scheme of things. 30-50 years is nothing in terms of evolution.

[@havenlewis5913]

I feel like a lot of the reason why Russian freestyle wrestlers have such a nice technical pace and great trips and kickups is because a lot of them cross-train in Judo as well.

[@guigomes3963]

Karo Parisian 🔥

[@deifor]

Double leg is a judo technique, morote gari. Not allowed in competitions anymore. So as a judoka you learn it, at least when I was a teen in Cuba.

[@DADRB0B55]

Judo doesn’t “work” on Hughes yet a literal can even by 2001 standards in trash Dennis Hallman submitted Hughes twice in his prime in which Hughes proceeded to get KO’ed by another can in Jose Landi Jons via 1st rnd KO. Outside of mma you can look up judo vs Bjj or judo vs wrestling, majority of time Judoka ragdolls both styles with realitive ease. Bjj straight up has negative record vs Judokas.

[@liosmani9353]

Many new ppl forget how good Fedor was

[@oleksandrpodoprigora8678]

Nobody forgets lol

[@libertatemadvocatus1797]

A couple of reasons: 1) The IJF will not allow its members to compete in other organizations and the best Judokas are in the IJF. 2) There are fewer opportunities for high level wrestlers and BJJ practitioners to earn a living at their craft, so they have greater incentive to become MMA fighters. Just like you rarely see very high level boxers and kickboxers in MMA. 3) Without the Gi, a lot of Judo moves just become wrestling moves. A lot of Judo moves need a gi (or at least a shirt or jacket) to work.

[@1badz239]

Don't forget Karo vs Diego in their UFC fight.

[@benjaminmg1768]

Karo Parisian was strong at the throws in UFC taking down opponents.

[@redgemini9851]

@FZ, Typo in the title.

[@dopvmine_p]

Idk who is the best, but islam’s judo techniques, throws, trips are beautiful. One judoka that was in the ufc for a little that was fly until MW Brunson KO’d him was that old dude from Australia, if he started in his 20s he would be legit top ten.

[@luisnunez3496]

Double leg takedown is also a throw in judo (morote gari). Ask Khabib (or Islam) if he didnt use judo in MMA. Finally, ground fighting is also part of the judo curriculum (ne waza). There is more judo going on in MMA than most people give credit for.

[@derekbk9093]

Fedor was good but no gi judo basically has evolved into the style that khabib used with his whizzer attacks. Most gi judo players would rather spend time learning wrestling than adapting judo. Firas would know this as well training with oli mercier from a judo background. He rarely used judo and he preferred whizzer judo throws no gi instead of Karo and Rondas style. That style exposes the back, similar to the few Muay thai fighters that have tried Thai clinch in the ufc. They eventually switch to wrestling and under hooks. I forget her name the girl from Thailand in the ufc does that. Also look at DJ vs Rodtang , you can see how easily he deals with Rodtangs Thai clinch with under hooks.

[@Khusrav96]

Makhachev and Spivac also use a decent bit of judo

[@quintopartido3991]

Teddy Riner heavyweight French Judo ace never wanted to transition to MMA. Sadly.

[@DBates-nr4ec]

Subject verb agreement kicked his ass

[@JayV98]

Judo is an invaluable tool in any MMA fighter's arsenal. Look at Khabib for example. A trained and well wounded Judoka. If you train it and can apply it and it works, it worth it. Too bad Matt Hughes never went up against a real strong Judoka. His arrogance would've definitely led to him being taken down.

[@CombatTV506]

what about sambo guy's using lots of Judo moves ????like Khabib & Mackacheck

[@dark1hand2]

I disagree No Judo campions in MMA??? Khabib Nurmagomedov ? Islam Makhachev , Fedor Emelianenko although they came from Sambo which is basically judo with striking also Ronda Rousey and yes Judo does have double leg Its called Morote-Gari

[@A-Mana]

Islam Makhachev is often using Judo in alot of his fights, I wouldn't call him a Judoka bet then at the end of the day it's MMA.

[@nikkah99]

basically balance is king

[@EndzMoney]

Judo is the most UNDERRATED KILLER martial art 🥋 You best believe ASAP I am going to to Tokyo to get my Judo 👌 For me I will do similar to Fedor but with a MT Jump switch Girls going Judo is obvious, it relies more on technique and allows girls to flip a bigger man on his skull

[@Drikkerbadevand]

the reason MMA has less judo champions is because judo pays too well, and by contract they're not allowed by the international federation to compete in anything but judo.. Also why you don't see top judo players compete in BJJ for instance..

[@Guitarial_arts]

Bc judo is so massive world wide. These judo players don’t need to do mma for money and fame. There’s a lot of it in judo outside of the United States.