Why F1's Legendary 'Fan Car' Was Banned

[@IanRB26]

FIA: Gordon, is the fan (really) for cooling or ground effect? Gordon: Yes.

[@JakobusVdL]

Please change the title - Murray is very clear that the fan car was never banned. The FIA had agreed to let it run until the end of the season, Ecclestone withdrew the car to prevent breaking up the FOCA alliance that he was establishing, and which lead him to taking control of the sport.

[@mudundisivaramaraju4640]

“The one thing that’s been completely misreported in all the books and magazines is that the car was banned. It was never banned.” - Gordan Murray

[@jamesreynolds2867]

Spot on, the Brabham team owner Bernie Ecclestone was, at that time trying to set-up the F1 owners association, and did not want friction over the legality of the Fan Car, to interfere with negotiations, Bernie had his eye on the big picture, as ever, so he withdrew the car, voluntarily.

[@ulysse21]

So what about the car having been banned later following touring cars CSI rules ?

[@jamesreynolds2867]

@@ulysse21 What have touring car CSI rulings got do with an F1 car?

[@ulysse21]

@@jamesreynolds2867 Following Gérard Crombac which was the most prestigious french speaking F1 journalist, a close friend to Colin Chapman and the writer of his official authorized biography (he also was Secretary of the World Championship Sports Car Association), Colin Chapman challenged the judgment and appealed to the FIA Appeals Tribunal. The court held that the wings should not act on an unsprung part of the car. To make that judgement, an article of touring cars regulations had been used. Contrary to what many thought it was not in the F1 technical regulations. Since it was the appeals court judgement which was the FIA supreme court, it could be challenged. I remember I have read this in Cormbac's own magazine 'Sport-Auto) back in the 80s, and later in his autobiography.

[@jamesreynolds2867]

@@ulysse21 Yes or no, are you saying Colin Chapman challenged the FIA on the legality of the Brabham fan car?

[@kvnngkronos]

So many fan-tastic puns in the video.

[@matthewlui1004]

Your fan-cy comment annoys me.

[@CHRoOMAX]

This comment section really seems to be filled with fan-atics.

[@RW-nr6bh]

I was blown away by this video; a real breath of fresh air and an absolute blast.

[@aydankhaliq2967]

I'm a big fan of the fan-tastic puns.

[@seanclodfelter4242]

Thank you for including the the Chaparral 2J in this video. F1 coverage tends to make it sound like all motorsport innovations came from F1.

[@rosumin38]

The same with rear wings as they also originated in Can-Am with the Chapparal 2E created by Jim Hall. 2 years before Colin Chapman brought it to F1.

[@ab-gu2nh]

@@rosumin38This isnt true. First wing was on a Porsche 550 in 1955 by Michael May. 10 years before both can am and F1. Ground effect was experimented with in 1968 by Lotus before the 2J. The 2J was the first to use fan for downforce as far as I know. But ground effect and these things wouldnt be properly understood and utilized until the late 1970's bu Lotus

[@dsdy1205]

Fan facts: apparently the fan alone generated more than the car's weight in downforce, and the car was also geared extremely short so that the engine was hitting redline during the corners thus allowing for maximum downforce and hence cornering speed

[@Thors_Garage]

I love this car and listening to Gordon Murray interview about it puts a smile on my face every time

[@bjarulez]

Every Gordon Murray interview puts a smile on my face, he is such a nice bloke!

[@rosumin38]

You know I think Gordon Murray can take pride in the fact that he designed a car that even made Colin Chapman go WTF IS THAT!

[@zinj2618]

It pisses me off when politics in motorsport ruin innovation😡

[@matthewmyatt2625]

ZINJ yup

[@joaopedrosambatti2474]

Because everyone loves one team domination right?

[@noadolic9653]

João Pedro To be fair it’s quite a bruh moment when you develop the best car in the field by putting a lot of work into it, only to get it banned by the FIA

[@vicarioussentiments1123]

@@noadolic9653 if things wont get banned by the FIA, that one team will probably be world champions all the time which causes boredom to the viewers (especially mercedes rn and their V6 Enhines). The constant banning of designs to win that season is to make engineers innovate differently. Atleast thats what most people said.

[@noadolic9653]

Vicarious Sentiments Obviously that’s true, but some would argue that this mentality kills innovation and that other teams should be encouraged to innovate instead of a new design being banned

[@HighLiner15]

You should do a video covering all the exotic fuels (toluene) that were used in the 80s-90s turbo era in detail. #topic

[@ooo_Kim_Chi_ooo]

Toluene is amazing!!! I used it in my Supercharged Corvette when I went to the track and it would allow me to run a very aggressive tune.

[@HighLiner15]

@@ooo_Kim_Chi_ooo Yea its a powerful paint thinner/race fuel. Toluene has many benefits if you can withstand the harsh fumes. Also it's a must have when mixing GAS ⛽ & METHANOL together. So I've been told by a friend. Lol 😉😉

[@abdullahsalman5681]

Awesome series! Keep it up.

[@thra5herxb12s]

This car was never banned. The team withdrew it after whinging from other drivers that didn't win. They complained about dust and stones being thrown into their faces, even though the tracks were spotlessly safe for racing. Another thing as well was the other drivers were mostly over 30 seconds behind .

[@JJ-yc5cs]

Innovation should always be ahead of competition.

[@thethirdman225]

Innovation needs to be _balanced_ with competition.

[@zhen86]

In this case it was never banned.

[@aryabharadwaj9879]

Was wondering when this one would come up. Great video!!!

[@keyboardwarrior327]

Fantastic video. I thought I knew quite a bit about the car before I watched it, but there was lots of new information in the video for me! Great research, JBL!

[@uweheinrich6784]

Formula 1 was much more fun when engineers could freely think rather being totally hand-cuffed with rules and regulations. All F1 cars looks pretty much identical on TV and differences are either in the power unit or in complex vortex aero treatments that can only be spotted when standing next to the car. As even paint jobs & team colors are pretty much predictable with only minute variations from year to year, all experts have finally succeeded in killing the sport, taking out the joy, leaving winning strategies to computer driven predictions and on top of it, giving us a muffled turbo sound that can never make the hairs on your neck stand up and only leave us wondering where things went wrong in the last 20 years..... In the old days, we had colorful characters and strong individualism - now we have politics, process and corporate correctness. I miss the 70's, 80's, 90's.....and of course Bernie and the "Mafia".

[@thethirdman225]

Formula 1 has always had rules. And if you think designers today aren't free-thinking then have a look what has been at pre-season testing in the last week.

[@ricklocket2812]

Car must go loud brrrr or else tiny dick man is sad.

[@sympathiser_of_Germans_in_40s]

Politics ruins sports. There's no two ways about it

[@TheUnnamedAssailant]

Politics ruin everything man

[@williampowell2964]

McMurtry Speirling Fan Car, broke Goodwood's hill climb record recently! 1000kg, 1000 break horsepower, electric powertrain - 2 fans out back. They're going to make a street legal consumer version apparently. Speirling apparently means "Thunderstorm". Will this tech come back to Formula 1 or be introduced to Formula E, who can say? But it's pretty exciting I think.

[@viktorlaursen7546]

These puns are too much 🤣🤣

[@philspencelayh5464]

As F1 is so regulated and the big teams with the most resources do best, perhaps allowing a relatively cheap technology like using a fan to give downforce would help the smaller team to compete.

[@Krosis_]

"a relatively cheap technology like using a fan" I don't think you know how much engineering and money and money went into that technology.

[@Cynderfan35]

@@Krosis_ i recall this version they used in race, was first one to function as in all other tests/experiments, the cooling fan came apart in high speed, which makes you wonder just how many versions and designs they tested.

[@MulettoMotorsports]

Series idea, perhaps you could make top tens of best cars per designer Top ten Gordon Murray cars Top ten Adrian Newey cars and so on

[@HarryJ-xe2hf]

Williams need a fan car! 😂😂

[@srhvideo]

As a result of tunnel generated ground effect the ford v8 remained a competitive package, had fancars not been shadow banned id dare say turbo cars would have been the dominant engine type a few years earlier. I imagine sucking air under the car with a huge fan still works with a turbo engine where it doesn't with tunnel aerodynamics because the turbo pipework blocks airflow

[@timbodedidleo]

Would have like more insight as to why Bernie and Murray didn't push on for at least one championship before withdrawing the dominant BT26b vehicle.

[@Asemafilmi]

Back in the days it was normal to make regulation chances if one car was too dominate. That's mostly why there only was one driver who had won more than two championships in the row before 2000's. Now there's four. That's not a coincidence. Still I can't understand why Mercedes has been allowed to dominate the sport since 2013 with no major change of regulations. This is bad for the sport and very frustrating for the fans.

[@colonelflagg9669]

I drive a Mercedes and I approve this message.

[@reinardish]

allowed or Mercedez so clever to adapt rule changes ? They already have advantage on engine and clean record on rules since 2014

[@tetragon2137]

Mercedes rarely bring out anything revolutionary; it's usually taking what already exists and is well understood, and stretching it to the absolute limit. There's... nothing to really ban. I mean, there was DAS, but, other than that, what is actually *revolutionary* on the W11? Nothing, really. It's just... stupidly well designed.

[@reinardish]

@@tetragon2137 Their aero philosophy luckily suit V6 Hybrid engine

[@seogabonotjah6555]

Sperling that smash the goodwood record was known for inserting 80kw twin relatively "small" fan with electric motor can added 2 tonnes of downforce hopefully that should done in f1 for future.

[@fabianrocha9924]

Easy: It wanst it was voluntarily withdrawn by Brabham because Bernie Ecclestone wanted to avoid conflict with the other Teams(Whose support he needed since in that Year he became Chief of something that I dont remember)

[@aguyfromparalleluniverse]

i doubt any driver other than lauda could have mastered it so well

[@davec8921]

Remarkably similar to the exhaust blown diffuser in how they had to use it

[@johnmcguigan7218]

Kinda reminds me of the reaction to Andy Granatelli's Indy turbo car. After scaring the pants off USAC, the car was effectively banned by rule changes, thus ending the long history of engineering innovation at the 500. Sad, sad, sad.

[@reallyluckyoaklawn8306]

You mean gas turbine car. Not turbo like turbocharged.

[@ThePurePlayaz]

I'd love to see some old footage of this going toe to toe with others..

[@alexwright6038]

If it improve efficiency of the car, I don't see why it could not be used again. After all the whole point of F1 now is to get the most efficient power unit, squeezing evermore power out of the same 105KG of petrol(which has a fixed energy density).

[@summerfarmestates]

to be fair it was not actually banned rather brabham stopped it

[@9118693223]

things like that can not be hidden today, if any f1 constructor considers to use a fan like that, on his cars ,

[@Sensei-padthai]

I building an mx5 with the fan technology:) Im a graduating in motorsport engineering this year, hope to get a job in f1 in the future

[@PAS100170]

Saw it at the Gunnar Nilsson Memorial Trophy event. Quite a day. Got some video of it my dad took.

[@MBSLC]

1970 Chaparral 2J

[@bucketslash11]

can you do an episode on the Red Bull X-cars by Newey?

[@CHRoOMAX]

Is this concept the same as seen on the Mclaren T50?

[@h4x0y]

It's the GMA (Gordon Murray Automotive) T50 ;) Yes, same thing but more advanced on the T50. I have a feeling it's going to be great.

[@970357ers]

If GM had ducted the fan upward, the "stones" argument would never have happened and would have added downforce at the rear.

[@JakobusVdL]

Chapman would have found another BS arguement.

[@srhvideo]

Technically it wasn't, but they did get the most serious side eye treatment in history. Id also suggest had the fan car been allowed to stay on the grid it wouldn't have dominated like the red bull is this season or the Mercedes 4 or so years ago

[@KoalaTContent]

I want to see a 6 wheeled fan car

[@nigelft]

4-2-0, or 2-4-0 wheel configuration ...? Or go really nuts, say to hell with having 2 large tyres, anywhere, and go for 4-4-0 ... Add on most of the other stuff on the 'banned list' ...

[@VanWilderSB]

What about the blown difusor cars of the late 2000s? They didn't use a fan, but the concept of artificially accelerating air to create more down force seems fairly similar.

[@AutosportOfficial]

You're in luck, we covered Blown diffusers in a previous episode! kzbin.info/www/bejne/jqG5gYOhed2Sf8U

[@john1703]

I would prefer to see wings, front and rear, limited to one single element each, and tyre widths reduced, to promote close following, earlier braking and overtaking, or racing.

[@philippedefechereux7896]

Great reminder of a long-ago new brilliant idea, as always squashed by the rules-obsessed FIA. Which is why F1 has long become so boring, even though I still cannot stop watching it. Still, most o the few exciting races we can still occasionally witness are those run in the rain. That should give Liberty Media a hint.

[@zhen86]

It was not banned. The owner withdrew it.

[@ysiadpir1423]

It won 100% of the races it was in. You can drive this historical F1 car in Automobilista 2. Lol.

[@matttackel997]

Was it ever actually banned? Brabham was told it would be allowed to use the car for the remainder of the season, only pulling it out of competition because Bernie wanted to get good with the rest of the teams to secure his position in power.

[@tracytron7162]

It sounds to me like a lot of the bans in F1 racing are just due to people having a goddamn hissy fit over anything actually serious

[@pauldamm3345]

It occurs to me that all of the body work and wings are mounted above the suspension and are therefore "movable". Has anyone challenged that before?

[@BadApe351]

Bring this back...along with six-wheelers and V8s...and anything else that might remedy the boredom that envelops F1 these days.

[@johnsmyth3281]

Let fan cars run, F1 is all about innovation and speed, and the fact that the Brabham was banned was because the other teams were jealous that they didn't come up with it first!!! And Sure ground effect skirts, movable, were banned later too, let's not get boring, let the engineers invent, let us SEE what they can come up with????

[@razvanmazilu6284]

I thought this was gonna be another one of those fan videos I dislike so I was worried this was gonna blow, but instead it sucked me right in.

[@rangersmith4652]

Perhaps what we need is a true unlimited class where all the restrictions aside from those related to driver safety are done away with. Innovation with stupid-tight rules is just not going to happen.

[@sumrandumguy7177]

Agreed. F1 is held back by traditionalist rules. I’d love to see an unrestricted class where teams could field whatever they could make. Imagine races that were filled with cars like Porsche 919 evo or even better

[@thethirdman225]

That was tried in the 60s and 70s. It was called CanAm and as spectacular as it was, it lasted only 8 seasons before some pretty tough rules had to be brought in. The series was dominated by two teams; Porsche and especially McLaren. In the end, they called the Porsche 917/30 "the car that killed CanAm". The truth was that the smaller teams simply couldn't compete. The old philosophy of "drive what ya brung" didn't work anymore. In fact, I'm not sure it ever did. If there was a free formula, the ultimate car would be so expensive there would only be one and it would be remote controlled. Not muchch of a spectacle.

[@Exachad]

​@@thethirdman225 From 2010 to now, only Redbull and Mercedes drivers have won the F1. Even in individual races, let alone the championship, there really isn't much competition. 2021 was just Verstappen vs Hamilton for the most part. Copying other F1 cars isn't allowed either, so innovation can lead to big advantages. Rich brands will always dominate. It's just that instead of thinking freely about how to innovate, they're just thinking about how to find loopholes in the regulations or how to best optimise the cars within regulations. Also, Can-Am didn't die because of the 917/30. That's said as a joke. It died because of the Oil Crisis and then later on because no one wanted another boring series with rules. I wanna see cars like the Redbull X2014 competing. Would be nice if FIA made an X1 or F0 division with much laxer rules. People also don't want to see remote controlled cars. They like seeing driver skills, so I doubt that would happen. As for the pricing, I guess that depends on how rich the company is and how much money they have for R&D, but it can't be so expensive that the company loses money because you gotta remember that companies use F1 for marketing their actual products, so it has to be reasonable. Smaller brands can catch up eventually by "copying" richer brands without copying them. Richer brands will innovate because it can help them guarantee a win for a season or two (great for marketing) while smaller companies do their homework and find a way to copy their design without like properly stealing it and violating their intellectual property. True innovation from scratch is more expensive than copying, after all.

[@thethirdman225]

@@Exachad *_"It's just that instead of thinking freely about how to innovate, they're just thinking about how to find loopholes in the regulations or how to best optimise the cars within regulations."_* But hang on: isn't that innovation? Optimising the cars within the rules means thinking up new ways of dealing with _exactly the same things everyone else is dealing with._ Formula 1 didn't suddenly get boring because, to your way of thinking, the rules stifled innovation. It got boring because a couple of wealthy teams won all the races. Everyone has been complaining about the margin of funds Mercedes has over everyone else. It was the same in CanAm. The two biggest teams won all the races. *_"Also, Can-Am didn't die because of the 917/30. That's said as a joke. It died because of the Oil Crisis and then later on because no one wanted another boring series with rules."_* CanAm was a boring series _without_ rules. Racing was non-existent, which is the point I'm making. For all but the first season (Lola), CanAm was totally dominated by two teams: McLaren, who won more races than anyone else by some margin, and Porsche. The object is to balance development with racing. I see better racing in Formula Ford than I did in F1 last year. At least this year, the new aero rules look like they will produce much closer dicing, like that between Charles Leclerc and Max Verstappen in Bahrain. If that's a promise of things to come, I will take it willingly and be grateful for the rules that produced better racing. *_"Would be nice if FIA made an X1 or F0 division with much laxer rules."_* It would never work. *_"People also don't want to see remote controlled cars."_* Maybe not but the point is that if you get rid of the rules and cars start pulling 10G, humans will no longer be able to control them, So the argument for lax rules eats itself. *_"As for the pricing, I guess that depends on how rich the company is and how much money they have for R&D, but it can't be so expensive that the company loses money because you gotta remember that companies use F1 for marketing their actual products, so it has to be reasonable."_* Which is why F1 has to work both together and with the automotive industry. I laugh at those guys who say, "Get rid of the rules! Bring back V10s and H-pattern gearboxes!" The fact is that those things are dinosaurs today and the manufacturers, who, let's face it, are the only ones who can afford to do this, gain nothing. That's not where their R&D is. *_"True innovation from scratch is more expensive than copying, after all."_* I don't know what you base that on.

[@uweheinrich6784]

We should have a classic F1 championship with cars of the old period (or new cars build under the old rules), driven by young talent. I would rather watch this, then to dial in for another "power unit" race of what is now falsely titled as Formula 1.

[@OsellaSquadraCorse]

You know that we actually do?

[@TheMightyPooh420]

Racing used to be who could make the best car and get the best driver to pilot that car=WIN RACES

[@msah.fitribahari9022]

formula E need fan car to keep the battery cool

[@TejasNaik01]

Thanks for the video. I am a fan of your Banned series. Pun intended.

[@Carimbo575]

Fine, the brabham was a great car. But that lotus 79 must be the most beautiful f1 car ever...

[@lucybarney1]

Genius design shame it’s not happening now ,except for DAS

[@nooblangpoo]

inb4 Ferrari hides a fan in their 2022 car.

[@daveblock4061]

Murray has always said that the fan would throw debris, if any, to the sides due to centrifugal force and those allegations were false. Bernie had other motivations.

[@TheBlackWaltz]

You also have the matter that the fucking wheels of the cars are already tossing up a ton of dirt and rocks anyway.

[@mbon071]

Stones to the visors, not good!

[@daveblock4061]

Does this diminish the legend of the Lotus 79?

[@ryaramaf1gobshite397]

Was that fan banned at the end of the yr…?…it can’t come under moveable aero when it’s cooling the car…..is it in the rule’s not to or not???…..could a team run it nxt yr???

[@leoa4c]

Word of the month: Pun.

[@81kp61]

we should a F1 class with no restriction lets let the imagination be the limit ... at least just limit the carbon exhaust footprint

[@thethirdman225]

It's been tried. It didn't last.

[@jackhyperboy5864]

it wasnt banned it was legal. bernie withdrew the car voluntarily

[@kurtwomack6473]

Obviously can blow the doors off..... oh wait.

[@125israel]

The car was never banned, Bernie just decided to take it away, if you will report, at least do so accurately.

[@Bhatakti_Hawas]

Gordon Murray really loves his fans. So much so that he slapped one onto the back of the new T.50. It ruined the looks imo

[@SuperIceman44]

I agree. Loved everything about the T50 apart from that fan.

[@ericrickert3045]

Will this make F1 cheaper? Anyway, it can be viewed as gimmicky and that in the long run is not good for F1

[@placeholder2924]

Wow, I'm early. And there's somehow already a dislike. Mate, how can you dislike the video only 45 seconds after uploading? It's much longer than that.

[@legendaryjueha2850]

Too much regulations theese day make f1 quite boring. Let the teams make their own innovation to make more exciting race. Any advantage of a team makes other teams more ideas to be better or at least equal from the other then we'll see great races. More excitement ☺️

[@thethirdman225]

Free formulae make for crap racing.

[@ΚωνσταντίνοςΚωνσταντίνου-θ1ψ]

Again the dangerously quotes of the teams...The BT46B was more dangerous from the Lotus that killed Ronnie Peterson ???!!! For god's shake...

[@theant9821]

It wasn't banned.

[@markbenton4370]

Open the rules up wider and encourage more innovation ... Id like to see turbans brought back to F1 cars and even rotary's ... Why the hell does every car have to look the same...

[@JohnMorawietz]

a simple deflector wing behind the fan would have quelled the stoned excuse, lol, and add more downforce, omg,.shudders rather to keep length in. how could Andretti get stoned with the Brahbam 34 seconds ahead? Be well, be REAL.

[@brubrulani]

I just imagine a piece of the fan falling off and doing a Massa to the driver behind

[@simracer1256]

But it wasn't banned. If you bother to do your research properly - christ even just listen to Gordon Murray in various podcasts - Bernie withdrew it to stop F1 going down a destructive developmental path. Gordon Murray still has the letter from the CSI saying it was legal. IT WASN'T BANNED. Try doing some proper journalism and actually finding out the facts rather than posting stuff that is misleading and factually incorrect.

[@OsellaSquadraCorse]

But....that's what Autosport DO. All the journalists left, or were fired (or are Adam Cooper, the only one left).

[@simracer1256]

@@OsellaSquadraCorse is that why The Race suddenly appeared? I did wonder....

[@ArthurSeijiNishikawa]

Didn't you already make a video about this? Or is it the Mandela effect?

[@vaska00762]

Maybe The Race did a video on it?

[@OsellaSquadraCorse]

They did - it was on Motorsport. They (Motorsport media, owners of Autosport) are now just repeating it here.

[@foxhazhax4845]

I think so long as safety isnt an issue you should be allowed to do anything you want, but with the stipulation that everybody else gets to do it too.

[@86HaKai]

Hi

[@rikiroll3d]

This fan blows.

[@cookingwithjosh9570]

Typical whiney Andretti move

[@ooo_Kim_Chi_ooo]

F1 hasn't been the same since the post-Schumacher era. Its all about the engineering, driving is secondary now.

[@eshamaharia2252]

3 rd

[@HighLiner15]

1st yay

[@pandupujo3917]

When F1 said to strife for innovation. They killed it right and left. With Honda left it and then another manufacturer to seek EV innovation, they will irrelevant soon

[@thethirdman225]

What? You really think innovation stops because something gets banned? In any case, this car was withdrawn by agreement.