Why Games Workshop Doesn't Want You To Buy This!

[@esotabletop]

For those asking about the Uruk-Hai paint scheme here is a tutorial: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aH-1dIFrZrSGotE

[@Wiseblood2012]

The deepest darkest of occult secrets....square bases.

[@Guitarkalle]

Maybe I should have watched the video first haha

[@davidstell6745]

You can find a large number of different size of movement trays for wargaming minis online and don't have to pay through the nose for them. GW were always good at over pricing their products. Try Sarrissa Productions or North Star Miniatures, to name but two.

[@jimsowter]

I was one of the principle photographers for the War of the Ring rulebook. The reason we didn't use movement trays was because we started production on the book almost a year before the product was released, and the movement trays had not yet been made. So we had to use pieces of plasticard, which we just textured up and blu-tacked the minis to. If you think moving 50 minis is hard - imagine how many we had to keep moving for those battle shots 😉

[@SpudsMcHaggis]

Big difference though is, you got paid to do that.

[@mybawzarerichie]

I got that book when I was maybe like 11 alongside my first minis (I’m 22 now), I used to read and re read it constantly, looking at the battle photos and creating little stories for each of the minis and thinking how the battle would continue. You guys did great work.

[@jimsowter]

@@mybawzarerichie that's so good to hear that. We were under a lot of pressure to do justice to the source material, as well as trying to inspire hobbyists to recreate those epic battles on their own tabletops. To this day, even after many other rulebooks, army books and codexes later, it stands out as one one of the best I had the opportunity to work on!

[@mybawzarerichie]

@@jimsowter you guys did a fantastic job. I remember pouring over the battle of Edoras over and over and loving the mini story that was conveyed so well through all the pictures and general composure of the book. Can’t wait to dig out the book from my shelves and give it another re read

[@Einherjar02]

I am french , and i love the photo you made... thank to your images, i dreamt a lot on the hobby. I am 40 year old now.... and it is time for my 8 year old boy to dream on your photos

[@hav6301]

Movement trays worked for War on the Ring because its a rank and file game, however Middle Earth SBG is highly positional and you can't really play with movement trays, each miniature must be 100% independent.

[@ajtame]

This, each model is now it's own thing, so this video would be better off using sigmar or 40k stuff

[@zedeyejoe]

Or you can put magnets on the bottoms of the bases and put them on movement trays covered in steel paper. Like I have been doing for the past 20 years.

[@jpurgal]

Mic drop.

[@deformiertergolfball4847]

yeah, easiest solution. there is even a company selling magnetized movement trails. idk why you would put so much effort, if its only about easylie moving your units. this way, you dont even need different sizes cause of different bases.

[@reddsaxxmike2865]

It's amazing that you guys always discover something that historic miniature players have use like forever 😀

[@ChrisKCook]

WFB guys too.

[@ritalorenz1397]

Coming from Kings of War I am just like - why aren't Multibases standard. ^^'

[@redtemple8918]

@@ritalorenz1397 actually having 46 hlaberdiers is far more satisfying than 1 base with 12 on to represent 46

[@ritalorenz1397]

Well, I still play with my boyfriend FMC. The main issue in GW is that you have to choose a army leader that costs a ton of points and reduces your options significantly while you can play awesome spam lists in KoW. Last time I fielded a bit more then 540 Goblins. A similar list in WHFB 8th leads to about 380 models. Therefore KoW is superior in terms of masses. Same is true for Dwarfs, Undead, Orcs and so on.

[@liamdonovan9413]

Lol it would take 10 years to play a WHF battle without movement trays.

[@FragorCaelestis]

I can't believe you actually paint and play with lotr models. I've watched your videos of skyrim for years, they guided me in a wonderful journey and now THIS. I paint models too!

[@thomasbowman3579]

How do you use the trays in game? The precise movement and positioning of each individual model is pretty important for game play.

[@TheSmell-m9w]

Yeh it makes no sense at all. Assume hes not played MESBG at all as these would be more of a hinderance than help. No tournament would allow these and Im pretty sure the FAQ made them against the rules.

[@NathanaelRouillard]

@@TheSmell-m9w AFAICT tournaments are not actually the only way (or even the main way) that people play GW games, so being against the rules isn't really going to have much bearing on whether players like them enough to adopt them for any given game. If they're time constrained (maybe a lunchtime game?) this might be a way that they can speed things up to get their games in and completed within their gaming window.

[@ESOdanny]

@@TheSmell-m9w The war of the ring was a mass battle game mode made by GW that used movement trays. But i'm aware most people play lotr as a skirmish game where refined moment is crucial to victory. I really used it as a plot device for this video.

[@Comicsluvr]

Not sure about the upcoming rules for Fantasy but movement trays were encouraged through 8th ed. Most players that I've gamed with don't measure to the 1/16th or even 8th of an inch. If your model is within 1/4 of an inch or less, it's considered good. So, as long as the width of the tray from the leading edge to the front of the base is less than 1/4" then the front of the tray is considered the front of the base.

[@Messermarkmauritz]

So you Guys never played WHFB ? Evrybody played with movementtrays ....

[@paulwalker5221]

I have used movement trays for years. There are many out there, mdf, plastic, and even clear acrylic, in any combination of unit size. I like the way you painted the trays but a quicker method is using sand, small ballast and flock then adding little grasses. If you only game small forces then no need for trays. Great ideas re dry brushing using cheap acrylic paint.

[@DakotaMilesO]

GW players just figuring out what historical wargames players have always done

[@redtemple8918]

whfb always was rank and file, i think people are a bit forgetful of the best gw game released

[@charlesvanneste2834]

It almost reminds me of a game I have seen before.... what was it called? Oh right! Warhammer fantasy! They must have realized movement trays would be too similar to WF and so removed them, though they are so much more efficient to use atleast at the start.

[@thiccestboi5114]

"I'm using my wife's makeup brush to ensure an even coverage" dear god, Danny risked his life to bring us this video.

[@anthonyd.1428]

Someone mentioning a forth game. Me thinking finally someone remembers Inquisitor! Oh yeah warhammer fantasy... I'll go to the corner by myself.

[@yesyesyesyes1600]

Yeah 😂🤣 I was like ... Epic? Gothic? Necromunda?? Mordheim??? DungeonQuest???? HeroQuest????? Oh ... WHFB 😳🤪

[@MNIV09]

Ah, yes... the good ol' days of The Old World. Will always cherish my one squad of, fully customisable, skeleton warriors. You could decide yourself wich angle for them to hold their weapons and sheilds. The movement tray were even included in the box! Good times, good times...

[@danm830]

Check out Kings of War - the game is built around movement trays/multibasing. Plays fast, straightforward rules but keeps tactical depth.

[@yesyesyesyes1600]

Exactly what I thought. If I remember correctly you don't even remove your casualities. So - good thing that the models won't suffer from deploying, moving and getting removed.

[@Gaddafied23]

And you can use your current models. Rules are free! Best mass ranked tabletop game.

[@ESOdanny]

How does it compare to Game of Thones song of ice and fire? I have more of a connection to that game lore wise.

[@Gaddafied23]

@@ESOdanny more focus on movement and positioning as there's no NPC phase. More variability in units as they come in 3-4 different sizes too. Lore is a weak point but they are building on that with novels coming out consistently, a live setting where global campaigns move the narrative and other games to flesh out the universe - armada, dungeon saga etc.

[@stonehorsegaming]

KoW is great if you don't like player interaction. If you like combat to be an exciting part of the game, try Oathmark, or Age of Fantasy.

[@clockmonkey]

Back in the 1970s we used double sided sellotape on painted or more often unpainted trays made from Cereal Boxes. Later Blu tac on Lolli sticks. Was done to protect the paint jobs rather than speed up games. I guess we could have put more effort into it and some people did but I never had the inclination.

[@Bodkin_Ye_Pointy]

So, despite your title, not one actual reason as to why GW does not want you to buy movement trays. Just that they are not available through GW.

[@Lordborgoth666]

"They will be cheap but glorious." Had me at cheap bro.

[@pliskin100]

If GW wants to charge an arm and a leg, and they are solve so many problems, why wouldn't I print them for $1 each?

[@samuelrodriguez9801]

It's ironic that first Warhammer Fantasy had movement trays then Lord of the Rings had it as well. Then they killed Fantasy and eliminated the movement trays for Lord of the Rings. Then they made movement trays for 40k which were compatible for Lord of the Rings and Age of Sigmar which they then also eliminated. It's almost like they hate the games.

[@triangulan]

Just to be clear... models designed to rank up were not always in Warhammer. Many of the plastic kits were infamously very hard to get to rank up properly (the old skaven models being particularly bad, with their separate tails...). I remember how big a deal those Chaos Warriors you showed were when they came out, exactly because they had clearly been designed with rankability in mind (at the expense of a lot of the flexibility some of the older kits had).

[@nickbrooks2236]

I think you'd absolutely love kings of war multi basing.

[@ericworley298]

Yes paint your base rims. Blasphemy if you don’t.

[@hectorcornejo1468]

Did WFB ever leave the movement tray behind before GW cancelled the game? I used to play I think til around the late 90s, didnt see what happened to the game since then. I am aware that their LOTR game was set up to be a skirmish like warfare game but I only painted minis for wargamers by that point.

[@triangulan]

Nah, WFB was the archetypal "rank and flank" game, so always worked best with movement trays. In fact, at the end units were getting larger and larger (you got bonuses for having units that were 10 wide, for example), so I would imagine they were *more* necessary, rather than less. LotR was *meant* to be played as a skirmish game, so I think they didn't really see the need for lots of co-ordinated movement until they released War of the Ring (which died a death, so I presume ws a bit of a flop for them). The game is built around the interplay of heroes and troops, so they didn't expect people to spam basic troops as much as they did (and part of the reason later editions introduced the *requirement* to buy heroes before troops, to get it back towards its intention).

[@Shemzu]

I play Goblin Town, so 150+ gobs takes longer than 10 mins of movement. I tried using movement trays. They work well until terrain rolls or combat occurs.

[@nicgreaves3484]

this is my thing with movement trays in mesbg: what are you supposed to do in combat where base to base is super important

[@khaiuschill310]

I collected 40k orks a while back and I ended up HATING the movement phase because of all the boys. I’d generally ask my opponent for help lol. Now I only play old fantasy warhammer and the trays are SUCH a relief and look cool too (has that proper regimented look and you can field far more) . My Skaven are fielded in groups of 40 on magnetic trays which makes setup easy too . Really a bit fan of trays too.

[@dariostabletopminatures]

3:56 Thank you sooo much! 9:48 WARHAMMMER FAAAANTASY!!!!! BEHOLD! 9:58 YES TO THESE CHAOS WARRIOR SCULPTS....the best EVER mADE 10:18 NO TO THESE MONO POSE CRAPPY ONES

[@whiteboyfrik5864]

As a MESBG player, movement trays can make sense in only specific scenarios, but most of the time since the game movement is per miniatura, the don´t really make any sense

[@emilychapmanppm94eddream0d5]

I'm sorry but can we acknowledge the Elephant in the room here? Seconds not Secounds!

[@jstone5239]

Historical war gamer : “aww bless”

[@vincenzomarino3876]

Warhammer fantasy a secret from a long time ago??? Long live warhammer fantasy!!!!!

[@koridoragon6394]

perhaps you could use magnets under the base&trays to stop them from falling out?

[@deformiertergolfball4847]

you could even just do a magnet tray so you dont need to use different base sizes and have multy use in every game you play. like 40k, sigmar, lotr, star wars etc.

[@MrBudges27]

The Old Warhammer has such Bases what a improvment xD

[@dagdamar2000]

The funny thing is Conquest by para bellum comes with movement trays and yes people base them like you and it looks awesome! I never understood why GW was against them? I completely agree with you it make for a concise looking army.

[@archiesinclair6252]

The solution? No extension packs? No rules that change? (try and take a look at a "white Dwarf" from the 80's) No feeling crap because the boy who's more middle class than you can afford more crappola?........CHESS!!!!

[@TheMcsebbor1992]

Love the Elder Scrolls Soundtrack in the back ground off Oblivion 😁

[@GloriousGrunt]

Nice, I did the same thing for my 40k orks, because there were a LOT of boyz 😆

[@anthonytanner2343]

I like your bases, I think they look better raw and without the black rims.

[@statesrights01]

Movement trays... "The dark side is a pathway to many abilities, some consider... unnatural.."

[@llHippiell]

I had no idea you did this kind of content! Diversity of content is so entertaining to see

[@ESOdanny]

This is a 2nd channel, but great to see you here =D

[@graymansolutions6195]

Me either. Glad to have found it, I thought you were Skyrim only, which I love too of course.

[@ukfreddybear1111]

I think you are missing the point. One of the best things about MESBG is that each model is completely independent and may wander where it sees fit strategically. Why would you want to limit all of your troops to the exact same movement? This is a great video for War of the Ring players which was a different rule set, but for MESBG it's kinda redundant.

[@LiliaArmoury]

eso tabletop: but there was a 4th game me: ah yes i remember dreadfleet eso tabletop: warhammer fantasy! me: but it was the precursor, it was not a third system, it was their first

[@sparkletoo2]

Sorry to be picky. But "secounds"?? Is that a gaming term I'm not aware of? Great vid otherwise. Subbed.

[@kaigraeler5116]

Me growing up with Citadel Miniatures and WH Fantasy. And being out of the Hobby for far too long was thinking why the hell are the bases round for a Tabletop game.

[@majkus]

Could the infantry movement trays for CMON's 'Song of Ice and Fire' game be repurposed for this game?

[@stonehorsegaming]

Great video, War of the Ring was a great game that like all great GW games received little support or coverage, and is removed from sale.

[@maevethefox5912]

I was coming here to say that. That game was amazing in so many ways, but the connection to their otherwise bungled LotR skirmish game killed any interest before it could start.

[@olizapp]

yeah, wotr was/is a cool game, have tons of figures, but no players 🙄

[@battspaints]

Wait a minute, this is the Skyrim gaming video dude?

[@palaghiaandrei]

The movement is the most important aspect of the gane, not the combat. The strategy comes from moving each piece individually, otherwise you turn it i to an overcomplocated dice game

[@EchoMirage72]

Roll to determine if a strategem goes off. Roll to determine if a psychic power goes off. Roll to determine extra movement. Roll to determine if you hit with a shot. Roll to determine if you wound. Roll.... Yeah it's quite a straight forward game not involving over-complicated dice rolls.

[@vanpallandt5799]

But troops even in fantasy mainly move as units

[@redtemple8918]

just play warhammer fantasy battles jesus christ, literally every issue with other table top games didnt exist in fantasy it makes me wonder why it got benched XD

[@isaacixtupe8983]

The square bases from back in the day of Warhammer Fantasy worked like a charm. I never understood why that changed to round bases

[@johnkelleh9448]

The best solution (if you play warhammer 40k) is to just play knights and laugh at everyone else who has to move more than 4 models.

[@bug5654]

"There was a fourth game." Battlefleet Gothic? "Warhammer Fantasy." Oh, right.

[@titansoftabletop2054]

Charlie Foxtrot Miniatures sells cheap laser cut bases check em out i bought a bunch for my American Civil War miniatures

[@NinjaMatoh]

Beem following your ES vids for a few years, just found this (40k player)

[@BeruAsui]

Kudos for adding the Oblivion dungeon music.

[@malcolmthompson9848]

So the video doesn't even show how to make the base itself which represents the greatest time and cost. Thank goodness I have the tools and equipment and have been making these for years.

[@dwarfdigger135]

The fact that people still buy stuff from Games Sweatshop after what they did to their community is baffling

[@ikkiiiieee]

Either use pigment fixer or don't use these to play an opponent. Getting pigment on somebody else's models is beyond rude.

[@nathanhalko7230]

Audio levels need work around 1:00. Your VO is drowned out by your film audio and it's hard to hear you clearly

[@HeraldofNurgle7]

Models can't really function with the rules of MESBG on a movement tray. Things like shooting over models, shield wall, spears/pikes, require being in base contact and tiny movements which movement trays cannot accommodate. Hell, its gonna be even more of a problem once one of your guys loses a combat and gets pushed back an inch!

[@M1tZk1]

I guess it's the same reason why warhammer Fantasy had to go away. It was too convenient

[@aegrisomnia]

You dare speak of the olden times. Where we didn't even have fantasy space marines!?

[@Farmerwal]

Have you magnetised these trays? Epic 40k could be another

[@davesykes1966]

I would do without the black, you work hard to make it all fit together and the black breaks that illusion at the end.

[@sonxepa6009]

You should teach people how to make a croupier stick. To save time moving models.

[@Drivestort]

Here I thought your mysterious fourth game was gonna be Blood Bowl.

[@nosbigdamus9665]

If it takes you 5 seconds to move (1) figure your doing it wrong lol

[@nunyobidnezz707]

"but dont worry, you can find them on ebay for quadruple the price" lol so true

[@Somewhat-Evil]

If Warhammer Fantasy Battles is "whispered of in secret" then Warhammer Ancient Battles must be totally forbidden! Most all of the Warhammer players at the game shop were dumbfounded when I brought in the rules set, Shield Wall, Byzantium Beyond the Golden Gate, and The Fall of the West supplement books. They didn't know Games Workshop had anything to do with historical gaming.

[@toel22128]

Looks great but will not work well with the game rules. Base contact means the bases need to touch

[@maciejmazur2622]

the pain is real - im on the fence with movement trays as i play armies that thematically make no sense for me to be in nice ranksl, but moving my 60 gors, then 20 bestigors then 20 Ungors made me re think my position....

[@the98themperoroftheholybri33]

There's many orientations of movement trays, there's the line uniform ones like shown here and the less uniform ones which were briefly shown when he showed the Apocalypse game, the company which makes these MDF movement trays also make less uniform designs too for your horde armies

[@darrenrees3284]

plastic card bases been basing my minis for years like this. And coast pennys.

[@melonboi927]

If by too fast paced you mean two of your army selling less than paints yeah I guess

[@elefuntitus_3312]

Haha, how to make a base: purchase it from my affiliate link.

[@nnjanobody6083]

Ha I got a imperial guard army of all infantry guys and half is conscripts ah hahahaha 😢

[@m9squirrels282]

Every gaming store I go to still has a ton of the apocalypse trays lying around

[@colinmack8655]

Or you could multibase like they do in kings of war.

[@yesyesyesyes1600]

movement trays were called regiment bases 20 years ago. So - not really a new idea. edit: how young are you? I still call it Warhammer Fantasy 😅😂

[@grahambandy6067]

Pfft...you are all younglings!! In my day it was just "Warhammer" and "40k" which was actually seen as inferior to the massed ranks (as you used to have in medieval to late 19th century warfare...have you never seen Zulu??) of "proper" warhammer....and yes I remember whe games workshop sold all sorts of games, from all sorts of companies. Have they not seen how much fantasy games and figures are going for?? Look at the prices for a complete Quest (and even Mordheim)on evilbay, and the x2 supplements, Orc Lord and Catacombs....what a money making idea to release them again...

[@cobloaf1]

Maybe you should check with your wife how long 5 seconds is too 😅

[@danmorgan3685]

Step 1: Buy movement trays! Step 2: Profit!

[@andrewdelaittre1132]

The oblivion music was a nice touch.

[@J.Panxer]

"Ask your wife"... HA! Excellent.

[@PointlessSoldier]

Lmao, subscribed for the Warhammer Fantasy bit

[@barriegraham4306]

I am happy being a Neanderthal thank you very much lol

[@curtisegill1550]

I have a question I've never thought about tell now..... Soooo in metric countries, do the use millimeters for movement??

[@redtemple8918]

na still inches, ive seen weirdos convert it but for no reason at all, single digit numbers are far easier to handle and all measuring tapes have both units

[@craigjones7343]

“You can check with your wife”. Hahaha. 98% of people watching this video don’t have a wife.

[@vanpallandt5799]

All the gamers i know are married

[@rhysjones6944]

Ha, I play imperial guard... 100 Infantry at a minimum

[@captainferrite]

Well that was pretty clickbaity. And imagine using mdf in a world where 3d printing exists.

[@vanpallandt5799]

Mdf is pretty cheap

[@USALibertarian]

These not just Orks, these the Hai-falootin Orks.

[@doublethebenjamin8185]

As a Custodes player, I do not have this problem

[@MOSESJESSE]

Best bet is to not play 🤓 Or to play the skirmish version

[@jacawandersmok9043]

ok so wood MDF is solution ;] nice i found mine for my old one one ;]

[@HorribleGamr]

Just playing a 550 point tournament with Goblintown. I had 70 models on the table...rounds took forever

[@clymdodds1020]

Just 4 games? Dark future, blood bowl, man o war, hell. Sleigh wars if your talking give aways in White Dwarf. The road you tread is longer than you think, sir. 🙂

[@thebigtricky9156]

wait ...what happened to Bannerlord!!!

[@bluemoka8992]

Bro the point of this game is to move each model as you please lol

[@Wallack]

Paint the rim of the base FFS!!!

[@Inquisitor_Vex]

I didn’t know you did miniature Wargaming ?!

[@Mekhami]

why are the pupils of your eyes not circles......

[@thesheeteels8252]

Paint the rims. So that the model can be called ‘done’

[@braveryisavirtue]

Spelt seconds wrong and it bugs me so much