Why Germany's health care system is in crisis (and how the government plans to fix it) | DW News

[@kiraflash4596]

As a German nurse I must say that one of the big reasons for nurses leaving the field is also the complete disrespect and entitlement, even aggression, from patients and their family members that happens on a daily basis in our hospitals and is being overlooked by our superiors. No one ever talks about this, you're just being told that as a nurse you have to serve patients no matter how much they abuse you physically and emotionally! This is outrageous and as long as there is zero respect from the general population for the work that nurses do, the nursing staff will keep shrinking and with them the number of available hospital beds!

[@darrellmortensen9805]

Oh, oh as a American nurse that is so wrong! You are a highly educated professional. In the USA each room n door in all medical facilities a poster tells patients to behave or no help. Just leave n you will be billed or police will remove you. People who where severely injured for example in emergency may yell anything they want for a short time. Diagnosis n pain relief etc etc

[@Ian-dn6ld]

@@darrellmortensen9805 I honestly idk. It's so hard bc you know of the American stereotype "America is better here and here and here." But sometimes there are certain things that we all could learn from each other. I honestly wonder how much of it has to do with the school system at a time when so much is decided when people are younger. The fact that some are put in schools seen sort of in a way of lesser value at age 10 after a test to determine the path, instead of accepting that some grow or aren't in the correct mindset at that age yet. That honestly causes a type of pain. You see so many people criticizing the American school system and sure, there are things that could be fixed. But at the same time, there are so many opportunities we as Americans had that other places by historical austerity we would maybe imagine better things, but it's not entirely as colorful as that.

[@matrixberzins465]

Agree - same problem here in Lettland, but fact is - our medical staff is not too much tolerant :D but yeah - patients and they family members time after time is totally disrespect against hospital members!

[@nilesbutler8638]

Its sad that you had to experience that, to such seemingly large extent. As somebody who has worked in german hospitals though - not as a nurse - I really have not seen that much of what you describe. Sure, patients can on occasion be a**holes. And the pure amount of work and lack of personell does make it hard to meet every persons needs at times. Conflicts do arise when a single night unurse has to take care of 42 people... But what you describe seems really far out from anything I could witness but for rare exceptions. The overwhelming amount of patients might be scared, and feel insecure, and can be demanding upon time, but in general I´ve experiented patients being thankful, mostly patient. It is a hard job, and maybe you are not in the same space as you where when you started out, if the enviroment feels that hostile by now.

[@marinb3619]

Nurses are the main key of any medical institution. not doctors who only prescribe therapy, but nurses who are with patients 24/7. people have to learn to respect that.

[@soho7777]

Having worked in German hospitals for more than 15 years, i can tell you that every government promised to improve conditions in our health sector. Yet everything gets worse year after year. A lack of healthcare professionals that earn a fraction of those in neighbouring countries while having the worst patient to employee ratio. This crisis is a consequence of decade-long cynical political mismanagement.

[@jamiejones8508]

The scary thing is that the exact same could be said about the UK…except that it’s consistently conservatives trying to privatise the system :-(

[@soho7777]

@Jamie Jones Here in Germany, we are one step ahead, im afraid. One third of the hospitals have been privatised over the last two decades. Now we have to deal with companies that take 10% of the public funds and hand it out to their shareholders. The whole system is rotten to the core, but for some reason hardly anybody takes notice. When the plains to Spain got cancelled due to worker shortage, everybody went berserk. If old people are dying in front of overcrowded casualty, all you se is shrugging shoulders.

[@First-Last_name]

Thank China 🇨🇳

[@freebird7017]

@@jamiejones8508 The problem with hospitals in Germany is the privatisation. Rationalisation of staff for bigger profits. What’s the NHS’s excuse? Another problem is that although population numbers are swelling all the time with new Germans, said rationalisation is causing ever fewer beds and staff to be available.

[@36.dharvipandya7]

Is it worth to work in healthcare profession in Germany?

[@mohammedabualsoud8873]

Been working as a pulmonologist in germany for 5 years now. The amount of workload, psychological stress and beurocracy we are under is HUGE. Me and lots of my collegues are already considering other alternatives. The stituation is getting really bad since the corona pandemic!!

[@hellolau]

Fine, but you also make a lot of money 😊 💵

[@sessions9869]

You can always learn to code

[@cscs9192]

@@hellolau Money cant help you from getting burned. You will understand it when you reach it.

[@bilalhamurabi3362]

@@hellolau you cant buy a mediocre house with the money though unless you work 40 years for it and why would you work such a stressful job for a mediocre house?

[@First-Last_name]

Thank China for your extra work

[@SunshineFromWithin]

To be fair, this is probably happening in many other countries such as France and England as well where you have low birth rates and an aging population. However I think that Germany is a country that is generally in crisis and the bad health care situation is a symptom of this. Politics in Germany focusses on non essential things too much and therefore fails to correct issues that really matter. Problems are always addressed through introducing more regulations that have landlocked Germany into unmanagable bureaucracy. Today as I was walking through Berlin I saw the political advertisements for the upcoming election and they are all meaningless slogans, "Vote Green and for justice", "fight hatred", etc, but no one even attempts to solve the magnitude of problems we are facing, such as energy crisis, lack of affordable housing, etc. Politics in Germany has become very ambitious (save the climate) but also incapable of solving any problems. It'll get worse.

[@valerieroberts8241]

God bless Germany! You are an amazing country and there is still a chance it will get better! ❤

[@thelostcosmonaut5555]

That's politicians everywhere. They jerk themselves off talking about diversity and equality but do nothing about the housing crisis or ecological disasters brought on by corporate greed. I'm halfway convinced that even anarchy is better than an inept, uncaring, corruption-filled government. Like I always say- "never trust a suit."

[@damionkeeling3103]

You cannot "save" the climate unless you have a one world government where emissions can be properly controlled instead of sending polluting industries to countries with less robust environment protections - which is exactly what the EU does. It wants to reduce its personal carbon footprint by sending the polluting stuff elsewhere where it will create more pollution globally than if those industries remained in the EU under tight scrutiny. They're not achieving anything of real value and most of Europe is losing its way.

[@jeanettenorman7052]

Same her in Aus. The beauocracy is overwhelming and a distraction from your primary employment

[@MarkJones-si2bb]

A German friend says "Germany is not an innovative society". When he moved to America and saw his first dentist, the American dentist asked, "Where did you get your [bad] dental work done?". Maybe it was partly dental work done when he was a teenager, but the dentist was unimpressed. (And my friends family has money.) He used to say, "We don't have the best judicial, but you'll never be without. Socialized health care?

[@sheinlyojales8925]

I am a nurse in Germany and also experiencing burn out at the moment. Too much responsibilities but most of the time under staff. Trying to give the best of what we can do for our patients but we almost lack of time to perform it. Really frustrating!!!

[@premrutaiphuksatawan4429]

I am an Azubi (nursing student) in Germany, I am also frustrated that I've always seen as Pflegehelferin and don''t barely get a chance to learn something with the nurse because they are always stressed out and likes to work with each other instead. I will soon have exams in a few months and still feel like a clown because when I asked them if I can do this or that or if they can show me, they always say no or acted very annoyed by me. So I don't wanna go to work and asking myself if this is how they do to the generation who's possibly going to have to take care of them when they are in pension and in case if they need care helps.

[@jennyalondradeischlerkelle3063]

also they don't have physiotherapist in the ICU and respiratory care from adult and pediatrics care, as USA, England,France and other countries. This helps reduce the workload of nurses and improves teamwork

[@mathisnotforthefaintofheart]

It's unfortunately everywhere like that. Nursing job is tough here in the US as well. Thank you for your service!

[@1glenwi]

@Sheinly Ojales Hi 👋 I totally understand how that feels and it could be so annoying, thank you for your service🙏

[@alanjameson8664]

I worked in US hospitals for more than 40 years. I remember when DRG's were introduced--many hospital managers panicked and cut back training programs. Most hospitals made more money with DRG's than with the former fee-for-service system, but they didn't restore the medical personnel training programs they had cut, and in time they were faced with severe personnel shortages, which in turn moved people to retire sooner than they probably would have before.

[@mtc-j9i]

So there is probably more than enough worldwide cause and effect data to SEE that this DRG system isn’t working in any country that it’s implemented in. I love how data is never used to overhaul or improve systems….it’s only used to run employees ragged.

[@erborianrn4599]

I have been working as a nurse for 12 years now. What I have observed in the past several years, New Nurses have branched out to different fields to escape bedside nursing. Bedside nursing just burns you out physically, mentally and emotionally. It’s the most stressful field of nursing in my opinion. I myself experienced that. I used to look after 12 Patients (Total Patient Care - Acute Care here in Ireland). For the longest time, Nurses haven’t been paid enough. Underpaid and overworked. I am Single and still renting and share the apartment with someone I’m not close with. I tried applying for mortgage, I was told my salary (including Overtime) was not enough to get a house here in Dublin. I’d say if this trend continues where new nurses give up bedside nursing so easily, Just imagine what will happen when our senior nurses (which make up the huge part of our workforce) retire. No one will be there to take care of you or your families.

[@onlythewise1]

so clerks get robbed by guns all the time maybe you be one see what its like

[@kgfairgo5559]

Nurses aren't paid enough??? Are you kidding me?

[@erborianrn4599]

@@kgfairgo5559 are you a nurse?

[@dawnmoriarty9347]

The undervaluation of nurses has been going on for decades. I fear complete collapse of healthcare systems unless this is addressed. I was a nurse for many years until I became disabled as a direct result of the work

[@valkaielod]

@@kgfairgo5559 Nurses are not paid enough period.

[@galejohnson8086]

I so agree a new start is needed. I was a critical care nurse here in the USA for 40 years. For the first 2/3 of my career i was proud of what excellent care we provided. I worked in post surgical cardio-thoracic area. Now, they want everything regionalized (to save money) and everything has to be the same everywhere even if the patient population and patient problems differ. The system has been dumbed-down, and I am no longer proud of the care provided. Our voices used to matter, and we could effect changes and better patient outcomes. No longer! Now you are treated like another cog in the wheel. All professional respect is gone. The newer nurses buy into the new system because they know nothing else. It is the almighty dollar that reigns.

[@clarissamendoza8322]

Is it related to obama healthcare? Or something else?

[@ElyesBoudhina]

I like your phrase "It is the almighty dollar that reign". That says it all.

[@gabrieleghut1344]

@@clarissamendoza8322 the health insurance companies tell a doctor what a patient needs (even what medication is best or what prosthetic for a new knee or hip to use) and the hospitals are out to make money. This is not always what the patient really needs. We nurses don't have time to take care of patients anymore. We are underappreciated from our employer and from the system. Sadly it is not getting any better soon, and this is a problem in most western countries.

[@clarissamendoza8322]

@@gabrieleghut1344 socialist system in health care failure? We are starting this in the Phil. No idea how it would pan out. If it's a disastr in richer countries, it wil probably be worse for us. WE dont have enough middle income earner to carry the load for those who are just getting by and below poverty line.

[@angieortizurena3327]

That happens when the country is a plutocracy

[@fatimakhanum4499]

I have recently came to Germany and was pregnant and during my 3rd trimester i got some kidney issues also, there was alot of complications in the end as my water broke early and the risk of getting infection was high , but the doctors and nurses really really took a great care of me and i will be always thankful to them, reading the comments of other nurses who have faced aggression i am really sorry on behalf of everyone because you guys are really angels on this earth working day and night taking care of people in pain and in need, lastly i will he really thankful to Germany's hospital RKH in Ludwigsburg who saved me and my babies life.

[@ayoCC]

I am always thankful for the medical care, I was brought to the hospital for only a hyperventilation and the doctor was looking like he was going to collapse. It was at 4 am I'll have to say, though. They will need to separate different professions of doctors, types that have a high through rate are benefiting extremely like eye doctors or skin doctors

[@piyarali9049]

How can I come to Germany as a registered nurse

[@JR47846]

you traveled in your third trimester? why

[@Sabrina-sx9fl]

rule of thumb is if you're straight up dying OR pregnant then they'll take their time, otherwise good luck.

[@JR47846]

@@maxgamer5173 if people want to keep something private and not getting questions about it, this might seem like a crazy idea but maybe dont post it online xD

[@nursemaggie2321]

Oh well! I'm a nurse trained and skilled from the US, have done German language courses upto B2 level, applied for the "Annerkenung" and after 1 year received a reply that the office required some documents from the US from me before they'll begin processing my documents. After an entire 12 months of applying! Let them have it, they really apparently aren't short-staffed yet.

[@darkskingirl4124]

Tell em. Same with me

[@MrReachashish]

Until they drop their pet peeve of learning German they are never gonna get over with labour shortages

[@nursemaggie2321]

@@darkskingirl4124 Can you imagine! The government really have to go after these offices, they're under-serving, terribly.

[@kwaru1]

I know someone who applied for a license and has been waiting for over a year. These are complete jokers. I don't think there is a shortage. The UK has a shortage and they process applications very fast.

[@eliasashwood1460]

@@MrReachashish Their "pet peeve" of ensuring that you can adequately communicate with the local demographic?

[@eddymk4818]

If you live in one of the richest countries in the world, with the highest taxes in the world and still got to a point where you have catastrophic conditions in the areas of health care, education, digitization, pensions, then you know that money has lost its ability to drive innovation and also lost his ability as a preserver of prosperity

[@SC-gw8np]

Money never had the ability to drive innovation and preserve prosperity.

[@morganmadison366]

Good point, because Germany is the second richest country on earth. Very foolish to outsource so much to China.

[@Vishal-Mandhan]

@@SC-gw8np you're right, even money can't drive innovation in Germany. Many countries with minimum investment in IT and health care system can easily handle worst situations. Germany has always an excuse of labor shortage then who's eating that all taxes...

[@izzyrov5814]

When the government spends all its money on something less important, this happens.

[@luftliebe6565]

@@izzyrov5814 they waste the German taxes... Most of German polititians are corrupt bast...

[@josecarlos11]

Similar situation here in Canada. People constantly disrespect nurses and doctors these days, also their salaries aren't going up so why would anyone want to stay in these working conditions. Let's not forget how much school and training is required for them to make it, and politicians always cutting healthcare, its no wonder health care is in trouble.

[@Cz-De-Lifestyle]

Well ya , if they waitin for like 7-12 hrs for emergency and staffs working overtime, they tend to be grumpy and talk like a smart-alec tone. Boy I love that country so much until the last 5 years , its just not the same anymore...had to ship out somewhere.

[@Nabee_H]

Its been like this in Canada for a long time, all the way back in 2015 it was a 9 hour process in order to find out my issue at SickKids in Toronto.

[@dodgro8342]

people disrespect the medical staff because the latter basically harm them, they don´t help. They have turned into distributors for pharmaceutical products. We have no medicine anymore. Only protocols written by pharmaceutical companies that docs and nurses have to follow otherwise they´ll get in trouble.

[@bernardgarrett3897]

My Mother lives in Germany, she was taken into hospital just before Xmas. She received fantastic treatment. Thank you to all those who attended to her. Gilead 1 Bielefeld.

[@unconventionalideas5683]

The joke on the German internet is that Bielefeld does not exist.

[@mnlgrnwd4152]

i was gonna say ... to where?

[@mekabare]

Bethel Hospital actually had cases of a doctor raping patients...... Im from here. Their psychiatric care is horrible too.

[@ArtWithMyHeart123]

Plz say your mother to tell the truth😀,,,as we are living in germany this msg can't believe 😂

[@hectorfernandezhernandez3168]

Mine did too, but I paid cash.

[@evelynsaungikar3553]

“More procedures performed on an outpatient basis” is code for “moms and other female relatives have to take over nursing care, and it will not be paid”

[@karrenpopovics2780]

Total hip patients are now sent home in 24 hrs.!!! Don't they realize that many problems occur at the 72 HR. period. However the longer the hospital stay the more of a chance of getting sicker. What is the solution???😰

[@bsrhoad]

My wife was the team lead of a nursing staff in a German Hospital. She loved her job when she first started working, but over the years the conditions got more demanding, the nursing staff shrunk, and the salary stayed stagnant. COVID was the straw that broke the camel's back, and she resigned her position last year when she realized nothing was being done to fix the problems, no light at the end of the tunnel. Sad to see.

[@andreasstuermer4946]

Good for you guys that she realized it's not healthy for her. Politicians will only accept when pressured

[@MirceaKitsune]

Only thing I can say without upsetting the algorithms too much is, we know what they had you do during the(ir) "pandemic". I know many doctors or nurses are fleeing in disgust from that... those who weren't kicked out for crossing the line that is. The true heroes are those who resisted in spite of the enormous pressure coming from every level of society.

[@user-me2py1kb7w]

Sadly pretty much same in Uk NHS in the verge of collapse 😢

[@MEOWMIX305]

and nothing will be done to fix this problem...

[@hape3862]

@@MEOWMIX305 Watch the video.

[@peggydeweerdt4536]

Pay nurses the correct amount of salary and they will stay in the job. Salaries especially for nurses are way too low for such a demanding job.

[@johann8720]

Think that's only partially true. At least what I often hear from my friends working in the German hospital sector is that it is mainly the poor working conditions making them leave. Higher pay might be one factor, but can't do away with the serious mental and physical pressures nurses are exposed to every day. Change must be way more fundamental.

[@mg79277]

I doubt more money will change anything

[@geeklafreak2638]

That and make it affordable to go to college to learn how to be a doctor and a nurse. I feel for the people who want to commit their life to helping others should go to school for free. And be paid very well, as well a teachers.

[@markycypress8484]

Money doesn't make burnout go away

[@greentea8852]

Exactly, for teachers as well

[@sergel02]

As a nurse as well, these problems seem to sadly be echoed through many parts of the world. I’ve heard colleagues from California to Korea to Canada to the UK all share similar grievances and stressors. It’s hard being understaffed, and dealing with aggressive or violent patients. Many healthcare providers are told this is how it is, and it sucks, but that’s life, but there has to be change to keep people in the field. Burn out is so apparent if you work in the field.

[@manonocharlton608]

you should see South Africa- once one of the best health care system in Africa now its a disaster

[@fbbWaddell]

You're always going to have to deal with aggressive and violent patients because mental illness and altered mental status are things that bring patients to the hospital many times. Ie. hypoglycemia can make a patient aggressive or hallucinations from fever can make a patient violent or a patient could be an adult with autism or PTSD. However, the biggest issue in healthcare is staffing. There are never enough nurses or doctors. And lack of nurses does make it more difficult to get a mentally altered and/or mentally ill patient into restraints. The staffing issues are primarily due to privatization. When a hospital is a business, the goal is to make money. The most efficient way to make money with a business is to cut costs and increase customers. That usually means paying workers less and putting more work on the backs of all workers.

[@lxc7548]

Because the system is really just the facades to the problem. The real underlying problem is that the population is rapidly getting older everywhere, so younger productive people are forced to take care of more and more older people, finantially and physically. That means, less funding and more stress for the health care sector.

[@francismarion6400]

Then there's jab mandates and the looming threat that government will fully Socialize it and assisted suicide will be the most common treatment plan you recommend..

[@honestytoafault]

So many EDPs that are told its their right to not take their medications. Then they come to the hospital in a psychotic crisis. Luckily our hospital is on top of those asap with security. Our hospital has a 6 to 1 ratio for nurses.

[@normalerweise2087]

Never complain about the absence of a doctor or nurse. Many doctors and nurses have applied for equivalency and temporary work permit. By checking these applications in min 6-12 months and requesting missing documents, you both harm the applicants psychologically, full of uncertainty, and you harm your own people with your health system, which is inoperable with this lack of personnel. When doctors and nurses work with a lack of personnel, the mistakes they make increase. I saw it with my own eyes in Germany. The first reason for this problem is your extremely slow bureaucracy. Firstly, More staff should be recruited to the state governments to examine these foreign applications. Ich habe die Nase voll…

[@arsh9373]

Exactly, slow German bureaucracy is the root cause of the most problems in Germany

[@Klimbo93]

as i understand you are missing the whole point hospitals are incentivised to save money, and they are already miserable problems is the conditions these impose on the already working doctors, as this video states, as well as the majority of the comments. "never complain"... first get the message, then state your oversimplifies opinion

[@sunshadow1483]

You nailed it I am also suffering from the same issue. I've been here for about 2 years and I've applied for a work permit since almost a year and yet couldn't get it. I'm close to decide to leave Germany after all this time of work, study and huge amount of money invested all gone in vain.

[@lulabellegnostic8402]

So no blame for the job applicant not getting their paperwork together then?

[@The0Yapster]

I'm a software engineer (work in research) in Germany (immigrant). My fiance is a Doctor and we've been fighting bureaucracy to get her in for over a year. 95% of Germany workforce shortage problems are originating from the foreigners offices. Anyone who has any other choice would go elsewhere instead of waiting for two years for a visa => emails and phones are never answered. My sister works as a nurse in Germany, some of her colleagues are done with their Ausbildung but are waiting for the paperwork (while being unemployed despite dozens of job offers).

[@belafrank9866]

You know more about this than any politician!

[@The0Yapster]

@@CarpeDiem13x Mine has B2 in German, all the paperwork ready, she already applied for a medical German course that started last month (fully financed from Germany) and we still don't even have an embassy appointment. They stopped giving job-search visas + language visas are taking multiple months. The Landesverwaltungsamt lost the letter I sent them, they are not accessible via phone or email, and I haven't got any answer from them for like 7 months (Just to tell me that they didn't receive anything). We are not asking for much, just put someone to pick up the phone!!! If something goes wrong (which happens very very often), there is no way to know or to fix it Some people get answered in 10 days and some are tottaly forgotten (two of my friends lost hope and went to France instead despite having B2 in German)

[@suportbghelp4938]

@@The0Yapster You are white?

[@The0Yapster]

@@suportbghelp4938 Light brown :'D

[@preciousa.4384]

The problem is that they know that bureaucracy is killing them, but pride of the german way wont allow them to make the change

[@cjm8160]

It is happening all over the developed world. We have been warned since the 1980s that an aging society and a shrinking workforce (relative to the overall population) would lead to pressure on public services like health care and long-term care homes. I find it remarkable that every developed country government knew this problem was looming and chose to do nothing about it.

[@AgentSmith911]

@blueonblue7063 No, there's already too much immigration which in turn puts a pressure on the health care system. Not to mention the increase in crime.

[@pcread]

@@AgentSmith911 Immigrants tend to be younger and in many cases qualified and eager to do the jobs the locals won't. Europe's birth-rate is unsustainably low. In another 20 years it will be critical.

[@lproth]

These immigrants don’t have the skills or education to help you, fools….

[@TheWebstaff]

Bring on the robots!!

[@maximebegin1454]

@@AgentSmith911 You are mixing several factors... first we hear about criminal immigrants but not about working immigrants... and no you will not have the choice to call upon immigrants if you want to avoid a demographic crisis that will affect the economy and the quality of all kinds of services... it is mathematical and it doesn't matter what you think.

[@flixri726]

I have worked as a paramedic in Germany for almost 10 years. With the start of the pandemic, I started studying IB. The first thing our legislator was able to do is writing mandatory labor for healthcare professionals in case of a shortage of personnel in time when we had just 3rd grade gloves and no FFP-masks. I'm done with this field, I loved my job, but I will not be verheizt for financial interests of others.

[@germany1809]

Wie jetzt? Du hättest zur Arbeit verpflichtet werden können?

[@AK-gr3vu]

Huge respect for the doctors and nurses, they deserve the best. I believe it’s not just the cost per diagnosis or patient but the efficiency that needs to be accounted for payments. Directing the patients to the right hospital which specialises in the associated disorder improves the efficiency and hence lowers the stress on the system by eliminating hospital revisits by the affected patients.

[@cadenadelreino1442]

Not the stress, not too much work not even the money. It’s the disrespect of some patients, some families AND above all our managers! I am sitting there telling them that people might die when they put me in a different unit leaving my colleague alone and they just scream at me that I have to do what they say. They act like we are working with things.

[@supernovaCH1]

I have unfortunately been hospitalized in Germany, prior to my hospitalisation I had so much respect for nurses, and doctors in general but after being treated like absolute trash, I now feel differently about them . We know working conditions, lack of capacity bla bla bla are not easy but being mean to patients is not the solution, no wonder many get disrespected by patients and their families.

[@itsmejulia1]

The reason for staff shortages are the absolutely horrible working conditions. The patient to nurse ratio is absurdly high and we're still expected to complete trivial tasks AND administrative tasks. Actual patient care has become impossible to complete because priorities are askew. As Hr. Sasse said, we are now risking the lives of our patients and need a real solution ASAP.

[@megha6865]

It is really heartbreaking to see children suffering .Prayers to protect children

[@bannedinfinity5789]

LOL yay pray for protection LOL

[@girlsrnotwimps]

I had a child in Germany (West Germany at the time) 35 years ago and my mom, a maternal and infant nurse in the US, came to be with me at the end of the pregnancy and for several weeks afterwards. She was so impressed with the way everything was done that she couldn’t stop talking about it. She still goes on about it when any mention of Germany comes up in conversation. It’s so upsetting to think the system is troubled now. It was first class.

[@johnlesoudeur3653]

Yes I worked there a long time ago and was impressed...but I would not recognise it as Germany these days.

[@girlsrnotwimps]

@@johnlesoudeur3653 that makes me so sad.

[@dragonofdojima09]

As a Nurse from the Philippines who is currently working here in Germany since 2018, I can say that the Nurses here definitely have it better. We have 10x more stress but 10x less pay back home

[@villamor7805]

ofcouse ,, haha you compare a developing nation for a develop nation.

[@dragonofdojima09]

@@villamor7805 and with that I am actually grateful.

[@WhatHappenedIn-vt3vq]

@@villamor7805 Some developming nations and 3rd worlders actually have it better then us. It's all about management and cultural respect things are just better when people aren't spitting on you and the government actually wants your service

[@dragonofdojima09]

@@villamor7805 obviously the pay is way way better. I am also referring to the workload. I never felt burned out here after almost 5 years working. I find it really less demanding here in DE. Oh well , we have different experiences.

[@cesvialpando212]

@blueonblue7063 His salary in Germany is not that much due to the Cost of Living. But it is far higher than the Nurse's wage in the Philippines. They remit their salary to PH which is 1€ = P57. Overtime, Sundays and Night Shift are paid differently unlike in PH.

[@nostalgiagaming877]

Love the idea that not JUST focusing on making as much money as possible is being called a "Groundbreaking Idea"

[@josephteller9715]

and what is destroying their health care system. Americanizing health care is madness for any country and will result in a failed system just as our system is failing in many cases in America.

[@gab_gallard]

Capitalist realism makes the obvious "groundbreaking" for most.

[@ryanrex297]

Seems healthcare systems are crumbling all over the world. In the US it’s survival of the fittest. We have to do everything ourselves and the fees are insane.

[@elizaeri1295]

When I know who's behind the medical mafia....I never bother to use allopathy medicine....I learn to make remedies from the kitchen or if it's serious, I will opt for ayurveda, traditional Chinese medicine, homeopathy etc, ...

[@normalerweise2087]

As a foreign doctor who is waiting still Medical licence in Germany from Bayern, i can tell you: There is a terrible bureaucracy. I have a residency in Germany, C1 German certificate, job acceptance, my Erasmus background in German medical faculty and my chefarzt who want me to start work as soon as possible. I've been waiting for 6 weeks just to get an appointment for the German exam in medicine. this takes 6-12 months in most cases. The authorised department in bayern does not reply e-mails, the phones are not answered. this time German doctors are forced to work hard and then are considering resigning. Assistant doctor training is hampered by so. Germany is currently unable to use foreign doctors who want to work in its country. It keeps you waiting for months with its bureaucracy. this is just a short example. Foreign doctors who could not stand this bureaucracy and returned to their country are not few.

[@HiTech442]

I'm in Munich, I have the same problem , text me your Instagram or phone number pls

[@nursemaggie2321]

Nurse from the USA, I've also changed y mind about joining them bc of these their frustrating processes. They should be jumping on the opportunities of attracting foreign labor, it shouldn't be the other way around.

[@kareendeveraux1847]

I've seen so a rapid decline over the last ten years across the whole country in all professional fields, people not answering calls and emails, letters getting lost all over the place, rudeness increased. It's like a brutal mess all over the place.

[@normalerweise2087]

@@kareendeveraux1847 exactly, they are afterwards saying, we sent documents per post, didn’t you receive? People are waiting meanwhile over 5 months to get this letter. But on the otherhand, the same state government, but different officer send the same documents to other applicants per E Mail. I think, some of the officers do not do their job and forgot processing documents, and then saying that we sent per post, you didn't receive it.(Lied). I've heard this often in Bayern.this should be investigated. Immunity of certain institutions and individuals in Germany reminds me of Middle Eastern countries. It's been like this for years, it's obvious something is wrong. disappointment…

[@TemNaya-br9cb]

Hi did they get back to you about the license? I'm a medical student who's been considering moving to germany for pg I'm really curious to know Would be really nice if you could reply Cheers❤

[@tyrannosaurusinf1488]

As an American, I can tell you our healthcare system is a cautionary tale for Germany. And we still spend more than twice per capita as anyone else. The leading cause for personal bankruptcy is medical debt...even while working and having medical insurance.

[@ORDEROFTHEKNIGHTSTEMPLAR13]

Yeah if you had a bad injury your in debt for the rest of your life..

[@enonh82]

@@ORDEROFTHEKNIGHTSTEMPLAR13 agree. The US system is a nightmare. Europe had done much better - don’t ruin a good thing.

[@eddiesombrero5378]

US System is worst. This and MDR increase the costs of medical products to much completely without a sense

[@logician3641]

@@enonh82 Europe only does better because they dont have to spend on Defense and military because of the USA taxpayer footing the bill for NATO

[@hamsturinn]

@@enonh82 It has its benefits. There is a reason why every cure is pretty much developed by Americans.

[@andrewdavis623]

The first rule of economics is scarcity. The first rule of politicians is to ignore the first rule. -Thomas Sowell

[@terrie001]

Being a nurse is really rough. My mother was hospitalized for a few weeks and I was there seeing first hand of how much work and how frequent they are being called in for something. It is nut. They can’t even have a stable time for a meal or break. They earned my respect.

[@nursekathy4480]

@@jimmymarais3032 I appreciate her comment.

[@lostinthecityofbooks6711]

I have seen may nurses sitting on their arses, knitting, eating and not working.

[@nursekathy4480]

@@lostinthecityofbooks6711 not at my hospitals in So Cal. I'm experiencing reduced renal function as a result of not having the time to drink or pee. It's a shame that we can't even care for ourselves.

[@ronA8te]

@@jimmymarais3032 Why this comment against her? It's not her job to pay you and the other nurses is it? What else can a patient give a nurse than respect and appreciation. Direct your disregard against the people that caused these horrendous conditions.

[@terrie001]

@@jimmymarais3032 I am sorry that you are feeling grudge and hatred over my comment. I did mean that I understand the hard works that nurse put in through my real life experience encounter. I didn’t know how that would offend a nurse in a sense that I am “spitting” on their face. I guess I have no clue why you are saying this. God bless you and calm your soul, dear.

[@betula-pendula]

That big amount of money doesn't go to the staff in the health system. And it doesn't go to the suffering patients. The biggest part of money went to companies, shareholders, pharma industry.

[@yousefmoe3233]

There is a huge lack in personal but the companies wouldn’t hire because then they need to pay more (salaries), specifically the resident medical doctors. Furthermore for the Doctors coming abroad; the amount of Exams and all paperwork which all consume time and effort to get the final license. Is beyond imagine!

[@shelleyphilcox4743]

There are the same complaints about the German, UK and USA systems. All are constructed quite differently and invested in differently too...the UK spends the least, followed by Germany and the the USA spends twice as much as the UK. Clearly there is a broad problem with more demands, more complexity to treatment and not training enough people in appropriate roles, which stresses the workforce.

[@lproth]

USA system produces 3/4 of all medical advancements, from Pharma, equipment to new therapies, to genetic research, CRSPR and human genome project….this is never taken in to account for the American system. It’s also the most profitable and productive, can it improve? Yes, patient outcomes are uneven, rural medicine lags the cities….

[@djamilawilschke7259]

@@lproth it’s also the most expensive - not even close to any other. that fact that ALL international private health insurance offers excluded the US for that very reason (worldwide coverage, except US) except if paid a hefty hefty upgrade. Also I wouldn’t overestimate the US “advancement” and underestimating the rest, particularly Europe - I trust german medication and health care 100x over any US treatment, simply because it is way better regulated … so when someone from the US states how “superior” the US is compared to other systems, knowing how deeply flawed their health care system is, I doubt it if not proven otherwise…

[@ORDEROFTHEKNIGHTSTEMPLAR13]

@@lproth The big pharma companies own AMERICA and extort there paitents..

[@1Animeculture]

@@lproth one problem: the pharma industries arent the ones paying to make those advancements .. those are supplied by extra taxes by the people. Pharma industries are both supercharging for their drugs AND gets supplied by taxes while their top-folk are reeling in big bonuses.

[@lproth]

@@ORDEROFTHEKNIGHTSTEMPLAR13 I guess I have to ask how much is your life worth? No, one forces you to buy pharmaceuticals, its your choice.

[@richardlindquist5936]

“The number of physicians in the United States grew 150 percent between 1975 and 2010, roughly in keeping with population growth, while the number of healthcare administrators increased 3,200 percent for the same time period.” In the US we have 10 administrators for every one provider. And the documentation needed for billing requires more time than the care provided. Burn out is rampant. My sincere highest regards to everyone struggling with this. Thank you for what you do.

[@ms-jl6dl]

It's the same in education,agriculture and all other ministries -- administrative staff has grown to monstrous proportions while quality has fallen which is natural and unavoidable trajectory of all governmental policies. Currently in all western countries more than 50% of people employed work for the government. And (almost) all are doing very poor job and everything is about to collapse including pension systems. No political power can ever implement the changes necessary to keep those systems at least somewhat functional because that is a political suicide. We lived by the sward of "socialism" and we're gonna die from it.

[@Monaleenian]

@@ms-jl6dl *sword. I agree with your comment though.

[@cs5414]

Governments in multiple countries have quietly been shifting their taxpayer funded health care systems to management by for-profit corporations that exist for the sole purpose of maximizing corporate profit, CEO salaries and bonuses, and shareholder dividends. They all rely on secrecy (no media coverage of the changes); secrecy about corporate structure, salaries, benefits; bribes paid to government officials making the changes, and impossible barriers to investigations when people die while waiting for care, or as a result of staffing cuts and increased workloads. For-profit health care corporations will ALWAYS cut care in endless ways for the sake of increased profits. To what extent has increased privatization of taxpayer funded health care been the cause of the collapsing NHS in the UK with strikes by underpaid, overworked nurses and ambulance workers? The Canadian taxpayer funded health care system is also in crisis. So many nurses have quit that hospitals have closed emergency or obstetric departments, or have shut down completely, especially rural hospitals. Overworked Canadian primary care doctors are quitting, making it impossible for Canadians to find another primary care doctor. Without a primary care doctor, they cannot get specialist care. To what extent has privatization played a role in these problems, or is refusal to raise taxes the main cause? Privatization is, however being openly discussed in the Canadian media as the SOLUTION to shortages of nurses and doctors in Canadian health care. How will siphoning scarce tax dollars out of health care worker salaries and into the pockets of corporate executives and shareholders convince nurses and doctors to stay in practice despite stagnant salaries, increased work hours and care loads? In the US, private NOT-for-profit companies used to be the mainstay of the health care systems. However, during the George W. Bush presidency, Congress created Medicare "Advantage" plans (in reality, Dis-Advantage plans) sold by for-profit corporations. Retirees can choose between "classic" or traditional plans managed by non-profit corporations, or the new Dis-Advantage Plans. Retirees are unaware that the physicians in the Dis-Advantage plans are limited, are chosen by corporate managers, and are those willing to work for lower reimbursement. Patient care is determined not by what the patient needs and what the physician has ordered, but rather by what the care manager allows. Care managers can and do ignore doctor letters of medical necessity, and corporations always win appeals. The majority of retirees enrolled in Medicare Dis-Advantage plans are unaware that their care is managed by a for-profit corporation basing every decision on more profits. George W. Bush also introduced Medicare Prescription Plans, managed by the for-profit corporations that sell the Dis-Advantage plans. Classic Medicare did not, and still does not, include reimbursement for prescription medications. Anyone who chooses Classic Medicare Health Care plan managed by a not-for-profit company will have to purchase a prescription plan from a for-profit corporation. These prescription plans have high monthly premiums, high annual deductibles, and high drug co-pays. The cost of cash payments for medications is, for many people, less than the costs of payments for prescription payments. Therefore, people choose the Dis-Advantage Plns, which claim to offer prescription coverage, but in reality will only pay for what the pharmacy benefit manager allows regardless of a doctor's letter of medical necessity. When Barack Obama introduced "Obamacare" Medicaid plans for the working poor, too "rich" for Medicaid but not having employer provided health insurance, Obama forgot to announce publicly that Obamacare would be managed by for-profit corporations. That is the same information George W. Bush forgot to mention about the Medicare Dis-Advantage plans for retirerees. In reality, Obamacare Medicaid is Obama-No-Care health care. Primary care providers often are nurse practioners or family practice physicians. They are not allowed to refer children to specialists not on the corporate provider list. A very high percentage of medical and surgical specialists refuse to accept Medicaid insured patients because of the low reimbursement rates. Medicaid insured patients, including children, die when family nurse practitioners with heavy caseloads cannot refer the patients to specialists. Every person paying into tax funded health care systems need to know that for-profit corporations are paying government officials to take over management of health care, so that health care is provided to maximize corporate profits, at the expense of patients and underpaid health care workers. Elected officials also benefit by purchasing shares in these corporations before any information about changes becomes public. In the US, bribery of elected officials (corruption) is called lobbying, and is legal. Insider trading is also legal business as usual, which is why members of the US Congress refuse to pass laws requiring them to place corporate shares into a blind trust. The US has oligarchs in the health care industries, defense industries, and more, whose wealth has been obtained in the same ways as oligarchs in other nations. Beware of the conversion of national or public anything to private corporate ownership or control. Beware of the conversion of not-for-profit taxpayer funded anything to for profit ownership or control. And always look for this information that is excluded in misleading announcements about how much better your life will be when it is completely controlled by for-profit corporations.

[@greenfaring2501]

Excellent comment. Thanks for taking the time to carefully lay this out.

[@gitteholmen8156]

❤❤❤❤

[@kevinodhiambo7343]

Excellent,well-detailed n researched comment on this issue!

[@kingconstantinusthesadisti133]

But the richer your bussiness sector mean more income for everyone. What you seeing here is lack natural resource, europe is lack of raw material & low birth rate . Theres reason why they demand immigration, its for cheaper worker. More imported nurses to take care old population. When Russia blockade their energy supply, everything else will be effected too. So its not just healthcare, its everything. One by one will be collapse. The rich will always avoid taxes, if you tax their companies, they will "tax" their worker base on salary as well. Or they can just start new or moving their company somewhere cheaper.

[@Vergil9O]

Also, do NOT let the term "non profit" fool you. Non profit only means that there are no shareholders. Bonuses and raises for the upper rung are still absolutely drivers for profit maximization.

[@kyriakizafeiriadou7681]

I came in Germany 30 years ago, and since they privatized them, the Desaster begann. Privatization they said it will be better they said. Absolutely the opposite is the case!!

[@TheBandit7613]

This is what happens as a population gets older. There's more sick old people and less young people to pay for everything.

[@raphaelostrowski6336]

@@TheBandit7613 yep Germans are super liberal and barely have kids

[@cottoncandykawaii2673]

@@TheBandit7613 they made it too hard/costly for natives to study medicine, it should be subsidized by the government. Here in Canada it costs anywhere from 40,000-120,000 to get a nursing certificate, and to train as a doctor it's around 60,000 A YEAR with a quarter of million spent by the end, most people do not have that kind of money

[@TheBandit7613]

@@cottoncandykawaii2673 There's so much that is fouled up when it comes to medical, both here in the US and the EU and Canada. From both the education side as well as the patient side. Old people with less than 6 months left receiving expensive treatments that doctors know won't help. Most medical $$$ is spent in the last year of life. A small amount of people use up about 80% of medical money. They are chronic medical money pits. We all know a few.

[@cottoncandykawaii2673]

@@TheBandit7613 you're right, elderly and palliative care patients are kept alive artificially for profit; I've heard many a horror stories from people who work in medicine and first responders who had to do some very unethical things to keep people alive who should just be passing peacefully in their homes and hospices

[@tedoneilclark4710]

Something has to be done and quickly. Shame on the government for allowing Germany's health care system to go into lapidation.

[@stapleman007]

Someone keeps electing the same fools to run the government. I wonder who those people are?

[@clairchen6466]

We are so distressed that more and more colleagues are getting sick as well. Stress ohne Ende!

[@denislukose]

A valuable lesson for all Regardless of nationality and geography - respect and pay your nurses well. So that your hospital bed don't turn out to be your death bed. Just imagine this, most other profession which may or may not influence our life get attractive salary while nurses who take care of our life gets peanuts... Where are our priorities..!?!

[@kevinjhonson5925]

Same issue in Canada and our hospital are publicly funded

[@jennyohara4011]

Public is best

[@petrichor259]

@@jennyohara4011 Public is best when they are run efficiently

[@kevinjhonson5925]

@@petrichor259 lol they are not run efficiently in Canada. Ask any Canadian it’s a disaster. People shoved in hallways left for hours and hours. 16 hour wait times for the ER. They tell you go to a walk in or your family’ doctor. Good luck finding a family doctor.

[@jennyohara4011]

@@petrichor259 same with all hospitals

[@segretoesconociuto]

In Germany there is a "public heath insurance" which is obligatory to all citizens, it costs around 15% of your wage. Private companies provide the service according to the official public standards and the standard public price list for services. (that is what I understood of the system after I moved here.)

[@OutnBacker]

Here in America, it is much the same. There is a couple across the street from us. The wife is a nurse from the Phillipines - which is common. She has been working for 12 years and is feeling the same pressures. In my opinion,these issues can be traced directly to Globalism, and the practice of using just a single business model because the same people are in charge of everything, from how we deliver medicine to how we educate children and what we will be eating in ten years - for our own good. Look high enough, and there will be the same group of elites at the top, forcing everyone to live like they demand, while they enjoy so much more. This is not about saving the planet. This is about forcing it to stop spinning so they can re-start it. They believe it cannot be done with 8 Billion people alive.

[@Rzn8B58]

They will give you operations you dont need in Germany. My aunt died in German hospital care because she was forced out of her home by her state appointed guardian. They then operated on her and didn't bother to notice that she was diabetic and needed medication for her diabetes. They let her go 2 weeks without diabetic medication which put her in a coma. Obviously you can't sue the state hospital because the judge residing is also part of the state. Don't get old in Germany unless you're rich and can pay for private care.

[@valkaielod]

Don't get old is generally a good advice for anyone. Better yet: don't get sick. Or if you do, have a solid plan on how to end it all when all comes crashing down. I think we need a revolution in ethics first.

[@samhadi7850]

Or exercise

[@royden3537]

Bring your German money to inovative India..cheaper and better

[@tbk2010]

I'm by no means an expert, but it seems fairly obvious to me that shifting money around alone won't fix this. To retain the existing staff you need to pay them better in general and overwork them less, thus you need more money and more staff, which also costs money. To get more staff you need to invest in education, ease immiagration of healthcare workers and students, who again also will likely also need financial assistance.

[@Masterrunescapeer]

Shifting money around would fix this, as in this case the issue is how it's paid out, not the amount that is paid out, since current system encourages short, repetitive treatments and discourages more complex care. Changing it to be based on staff count is better in that more nurses/doctors, but drawback that it doesn't have productivity required for each (there are probably ratios though).

[@asusmctablet9180]

Governments worldwide are refusing to fund medical education, like here in Canada. As well, health care gets overrun by bureaucrats, whose main interest is securing funding for things that don't result in health care - instead the money all goes to meetings and memos.

[@damionkeeling3103]

If you're going to use immigration to solve this then immigration should be limited to a percentage of medical workers coming in. No point bringing in extra medical workers if the rest of the immigrant population soaks up their services leaving you in the same or worse position that you started.

[@gurindersingh8109]

Healthcare can't be treated as any business aiming to profiteering from it. Encourage professional ethics than corporate greed

[@Robert-cu9bm]

Then the public will whine about high taxes paying for it.

[@gurindersingh8109]

@@RealCherry8085 Fortis founders followed radha swamy Hindu thug way of life and Gurinder Dhillon is worshipped by Narender modi . Sikhs don't like Radha swamy Gurinder Dhillon Hindu who looted Fortis founders with RSS members involvement

[@Monaleenian]

Why not? That's how food production is treated in the Western world and there are no famines or deaths from starvation. Instead, there is abundance. Famine and starvation occur in countries with subsistence farmers and the lack of a proper business approach to food production. The government is far too involved in healthcare. If they got involved in food production to the same extent we would probably all starve to death.

[@PedroPrego]

I live in a country with a NHS and the complaints are exactly the same. This suggests the problem is not related with how the system is built (private, public or a mix). The underlying problem seems to be with demographics coupled with a post pandemic world.

[@kem5029]

I feel bad for medical workers. My family is also in this field and I totally understand. I just caj seem to think why Germany keeps on recruiting nurses from other countries when the current condition is bad. This isnmy greatest fear as a mom when they announced bed shortage for kids. Everyone is affected. I hope this reform will be a start.

[@FallacyAsPraxis]

Recruiting medical workers from other countries is a serious ethical issue that is blatantly ignored by the EU, Canada, Australia, and US governments. They are taking these medical workers away from countries that desperately need them.

[@christianlibertarian5488]

The story of nurses being burnt out and leaving the profession is worldwide since the pandemic. It just took a huge toll on nurses working lives. Paying them more will help, but reducing the stress is more important. In the US, they created a position called a "nursing tech", which was basically a nurse assistant. It worked for a time, but then hospitals lost sight of their purpose and laid them off.

[@Veggieture]

“but reducing the stress is more important”. And you think that being paid less doesn’t add to the stress?

[@christianlibertarian5488]

@@Veggieture I don't know where you live, but certainly nurses around here are not being paid less. The shortage precludes that.

[@4ksandknives]

I feel this is a problem everywhere as the population increases :(

[@ElyesBoudhina]

8 billion and counting...

[@James-vj5hz]

This is due to demographic collapse in western countries, not population increases.

[@MrWackypackages]

its a problem that the population is getting older, aka people aren't having enough children

[@defeqel6537]

@@MrWackypackages populations getting older, and sicklier with all the junk food and other lifestyle choices, like 80% of medical needs could be cut if people just stopped eating sugary stuff and grains, or at least reduced them significantly

[@nutzeeer]

I talked to an ex nurse once. It used to be her dream job for a long time. too much pressure.

[@MikeJohnson-nj1ry]

Healthcare can be for profit or to care for people but, it can't do both. Show me everything that corporate greed hasn't made worst.

[@timh9278]

The medicine that increases your life expectancy and saves lives

[@jakeroper1096]

Corporate greed is why we have as many options for medication as we do. Capitalism harnesses greed into something useful. Would you rather have expensive options or no option? Because all of these countries with cheap drugs are literally only made possible by the US paying the R&D costs with our taxes, inflation and high drug costs

[@Robert-cu9bm]

Internet, cars... Pretty much anything the government try to meddle in.

[@MikeJohnson-nj1ry]

@@timh9278 "With rare exceptions, life expectancy has been on the rise in the US: it was 47 years in 1900, 68 years in 1950, and by 2019 it had risen to nearly 79 years. But it fell to 77 in 2020 and dropped further, to just over 76, in 2021." "Despite being a top spender on health care, the United States is an outlier among its peers on life expectancy. It sits well in the bottom half of countries in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), a grouping of several dozen mostly high-income nations."

[@timh9278]

@@MikeJohnson-nj1ry I understand that US is slightly behind other developed countries but compared to most of the world its still better. And most of the world has free healthcare too. And most of the world uses American developed vaccines, medicine, and medical technology. And relies on evil capitalist america for protection and stability.

[@alanmcrae8594]

People are commenting from all around the world, and the general consensus seems to be that both public & private healthcare systems of every kind are high stress, over worked, over utilized and struggling with finances & retaining staff. Sounds like the sheer volume of demand is at the root of all these symptoms, so the underlying population demographics have a lot to do with these problems. Whether an aging population bubble or large numbers of working poor, delivering services to all who need it has become extremely challenging. Delivering quality care to huge numbers of patients requires a mountain of resources and round the clock attention. Nobody seems to have created a model that could be universal and scale to rising demand. Plenty of room for improvement everywhere, but tons of constraints that preclude making systemic changes. It is what it is...

[@janoluhs4056]

Yup, unfortunately it's an almost unsolvable problem. It's a triple whammy, more old people, more treatments in general and more expensive treatments. between 1990 and 2020 alone, healthcare made huge advances. This is one of the two key factors - the fact that healthcare as a system will always become more complex and more expensive due to innovations in medical science. So when people say it used to be better, it might have been in terms of staff levels, but overall healthcare cost has massively risen because we treat people way better today than in the past. That means the system constantly needs more money to even keep up with previous staffing levels. And if the money isn't given, staffing levels sink. The second key factor is demographics. People really underestimate how much older developed nations are today than they were in the past. 1990, the average age in Germany was about 39, now it's over 45. Just imagine what that means in terms of healthcare costs. Most expensive treatments occur during the end of your life (obviously).

[@alanmcrae8594]

@@janoluhs4056 All very true. It's just that at the end of the day, we are all human beings and if healing technologies are reserved only for those who have boatloads of money or platinum health insurance then eventually the world would become fully financialized and ruled entirely by maximally exploitive oligarchs doling out healthcare to the most useful & obedient corporate serfs in their fiefdoms. I wonder how many people are working themselves sick to pay for their health insurance?

[@joysimpson7503]

The same is happening in England …

[@LA90598]

Yet the media in the UK are calling out the German health care system as a model and beacon of efficiency. Somehow I don't think it is

[@annaredding]

Yep. Which suggests this is a systemic issues - staff, working conditions, aging population, not-optimal management systems, post pandemic pressures.

[@ftdecastrolondon]

But in the UK everything is due to Brexit! Huge lie.

[@katjaxxx7353]

German native here. Lived in U.K. for over 20 years. In both countries the nurses have been fantastic, loving, caring, always a smile and I felt cared. Having said that in Germany the Health system is 100% better, I was an outpatient in a “Tagesklinik”, an institution for outpatients in the phsycatric ward, in the U.K. they don’t have it; I had to go privat …. £1.5k later ….

[@cinnamonstar808]

both are old countries. and I dont mean history. 1+1 =2 that is the driver of the cost

[@tig3662]

German's healthcare system is largely private unlike the UK.

[@1glenwi]

That’s so amazing, I believe you have such a wonderful experiences… I actually consider doctors & nurses the best individuals around the world coz they do a lot of job saving lives on a daily basis.

[@secredeath]

Babe come over to MI house 😘 always wanted a german girl

[@tvismyonlyfriend]

We need to be able to train our doctors inside our own countries

[@axiosschmidt6001]

Yes, the requirements in Germany for getting into a Medical University, are extremely high. You can not say the same for other countries.

[@Tadokiarika]

@@axiosschmidt6001 die einzige Bedingung für ein medizinstudium ist das Abitur. Dass man 1,0 braucht, liegt an zu vielen Bewerbern auf zu wenig Studienplätze. Andere Länder haben genau das gleiche Problem und lösen es teilweise nur anders. (z. B Österreich über testverfahren)

[@slimshady6597]

@@Tadokiarika Es gibt auch einen Test in DE

[@Tadokiarika]

@@slimshady6597 jaein. Es gibt den TMS, den man zusätzlich machen kann. Darüber einen platz zu bekommen ist aber relativ unwahrscheinlich. In Österreich zählt NUR der test

[@slimshady6597]

@@Tadokiarika weiß ich, hab den TMS selbst gemacht und hatte mich auch für den Med-AT angemeldet. Die Erfolgsaussichten sind da aber auch nicht so toll.

[@einseitig3391]

Thanks you. The UK is also experiencing huge problems with health care; it is also fundamental with too few health care professionals and too few beds. Our government is out of money which means higher taxes and lower (relative to inflation) wages.

[@shauncameron8390]

Fewer people who work and produce and too many people in need of social assistance.

[@golden.lights.twinkle2329]

Too many immigrants who have never paid into the NHS system. 2 million last year. All get free NHS treatment. Just wait until they all bring their families to the UK.

[@shauncameron8390]

@@golden.lights.twinkle2329 Question: can anyone recall a time when welfare states or better yet any country that prided itself in being socialist had open borders?

[@breathaway.]

All residents of Germany are required by law to have health insurance. But in reality it`s a sad story behind, I work in the home for the elders and the huge problem shortages of staff. No time for a break, no time for toilet and late home.😢😥

[@exxtraterestial]

The worst part is that nurses get less money than doctors but they do so much more work. They should atleast get payed the same

[@melodyschleicher81]

In my humble opinion (I live in England where the NHS is also in trouble) people are living longer but not better. Bad eating habits, lack of exercise and a sense of entitlement are rife, but when this is pointed out, people get angry and defensive. Also people don't want to accept that there is a difference between saving a life, and preventing a person from dying where there is no longer any quality of life. I am 81 years old and know that no-one lives forever. I have a DNR in place should I have a severe stroke or other medical problem that would leave me as a human vegetable. I accept that there is also a time to die.

[@hungrylion7742]

You’ve lived long ma’am; I wish you the best in the other world when you pass on. Enjoy your life even at 81 years old. I wish I could move to the UK to study.

[@dodgro8342]

lol you gotta be a bot.

[@melodyschleicher81]

@@dodgro8342 I am human, alive, and kicking. Sorry to disappoint you. 😜

[@dodgro8342]

@@melodyschleicher81 then sadly brainwashed. Go on, take the shot so that the elites can buy more of yachts and villas. Fewer pensioners = fewer expenses for them.

[@melodyschleicher81]

@@dodgro8342 🥴 well informed actually.

[@gertexan]

My cousin and her husband are both doctors in Germany. They are both in their 30`s. Both tell me that they are so burned out they are thinking of leaving the profession or possibly moving to Switzerland to go into private practice. My cousin´s husband works in the A&E department of a large hospital and he says there are days he just wants to quit on the spot. He says that over the last few years patients have become so demanding and abusive, and the pay is so low for the hours they work. The stories they tell are truly eye-opening.

[@elainelindsey1306]

In south africa we also have 2 different health sectors private and public. 80% of the doctors choose to have there own private practice and work from private hospitals. Which leaves public health in a mess, 1 dr has to see to hundreds of patients daily they totally overworked. Even the nurses prefer to work in private hospitals like netcare, cos if you work 15 days a month in a private hospital u get paid more than nurses in public hospitals.

[@SatabdiKundu07]

Same as India.

[@miguelfernandes5628]

Its happening everywhere. In the 4 yrs I have worked in a major hospital in our city in the Midwest of USA, I have never seen the ER dept so packed.

[@Robert-cu9bm]

That's what happens when for 2yrs you tell everyone to stay away from healthcare. You get a rush of everyone who delayed treatment.

[@annaredding]

Same in the NHS in the UK. Staff shortage/burnout/quitting, post-pandemic pressures and aging population.

[@eurobrowarriormonk7182]

@@Robert-cu9bm Thats what happens when you convince have the population to take an untested experimental vaccine

[@marolynbriggs1878]

@@supercarakita1148 absolutely! And those in the healthcare sector who didn't want the experimental jab were dropped like hot cakes....even when many had natural immunity, had nursed the worst cases without catching the disease themselves, or were just simply immune. Shame on these policies!

[@WimiBussard]

@@Robert-cu9bm In these two years the hospitals were packed, too. That's why you had to tell them to stay away in the first place.

[@zatoichison6420]

Politicians are the one to blame, protecting the rich people and business, by affecting our lives on all aspects. The pandemic was a political issue not a healthy one !! That way many lost they jobs and do not want to work in health industry, it is the same everywhere in the world !! Nice work !!

[@laarananocturna190]

Sure! Which is the solution then?

[@user-ei6zf3ck1x]

The real doctors who don t work for many!!!

[@FishoeShoe_da_great]

@@laarananocturna190 eat the rich

[@laarananocturna190]

@@FishoeShoe_da_great LOVE IT! WHERE AND WHEN!

[@shauncameron8390]

High taxes have a weird way of protecting the rich and big business.

[@sahidsurya]

I studied in Germany and I saw there's hundreds of medical students in every semester (summer and winter semester), where are they after Uni? The main problems in Germany is the complicated beaurocracy. There's so many foreigners want to work as health care professionals there. But, it took years to get the job.

[@indahooddererste]

Switzerland and scandinavia. Less hours more money better overall live conditions even for families.

[@lonelydogclub]

Also, germany refuses to train more doctors. Their med. school is extremely hard to get in

[@cottoncandykawaii2673]

Germany has too many foreigners, the problem is they make it too difficult for Germans to get into health care not that they need more immigrants

[@PD62155]

I live in Germany, and still think the care is excellent, especially compared to the Uk.

[@balsdsa]

curious, how much do you pay in tax? and do you pay for healthcare separately?

[@garethbuckeridge6910]

I live in the UK and have had fantastic NHS care in the last 6 years for the 4 cancer battles that I have fought. Yes the system is over used, under funded and inadequatley resourced but I have nothing but the upmost respect for the nursess, doctors and support staff that make it happen.

[@saba1030]

@@balsdsa The German healthcare system isn't financed by tax. Every month a percentage (14,6 %, shared equally by employer/employee or pensioner/ gvts pension fund 7,3%/7,3 %) gets deducted off the salary/pension by the health insurance/system.

[@gfys756]

​@@saba1030Deducted wages are taxes.

[@saba1030]

@@gfys756 Oops, thanks, I've corrected it to salaries 😉

[@GameUnCrafter]

Maybe if we didn't force our healthcare workers to agree with company politics, more would stay. My daughter was in the NICU for 124 days, and all the nurses are tense under their breath. Politics will destroy the workforce.

[@laarananocturna190]

Politics??? Hahaha Looks like we just watched a different video. One where "politics are the problem"🤔😂🤣 And one in which the conditions offered to the workers are so bad that they would rather leave than continue living under the greed of the hospitals!!!

[@GameUnCrafter]

@@laarananocturna190 that might be part of it, but you have no idea how many nurses I personally know that left the field due to being forced to adhere to political policies.

[@grmmth3]

@@GameUnCrafter why don't you just say you're an anti vaxxer and be done with it. You don't have a right to spread diseases to people.

[@GameUnCrafter]

@@grmmth3 I'm not.

[@grmmth3]

@@GameUnCrafter so what are the political policies you're speaking about?

[@florida199]

Same thing happening in UK . NHS is struggling to keep up , long waiting lines everywhere , no nurses no doctors.

[@Robert-cu9bm]

But here all problems are apparently the cause of Brexit and the Tories.

[@roybatty6857]

Immigration is not helping . No one is mentioning it

[@ftdecastrolondon]

And people think it is due to Brexit. Big lie.

[@defeqel6537]

@@SunshineFromWithin Brexit is pretty much inconsequential as long as the whole British government and bureaucracy is too big and focusing on the wrong things

[@MrVikas07]

My wife is a dentist... But she could not work in germany due to strict language requirement. Now she is leaving germany soon, and I stay here.

[@Ian-dn6ld]

??? There has to be some sort of something that could change. Ever look to see if there are any army bases near you? They have plenty of civilian work in multiple facets.

[@lostinthecityofbooks6711]

Lazy to learn a language

[@niceyesplease]

Well yeah it is bad for your wife but there really is no dentist shortage here in Germany. Also, learning the language is the solution. So why comment?

[@jornalistarenatarosa4205]

The lack of medicines will affect all countries because China, that produces most of them, will need them for their own people after covid zero policy finished. That's why it's a must every nation open new factories of medicines.

[@billinsf88]

Isn’t it India a huge producers of medicine? The issues are not just lack of medicine, according to this video it’s about how care are financed.

[@hape3862]

@@billinsf88 Germany is #1 export country of pharmaceuticals. India is #7 and China isn't even in the top 15.

[@billinsf88]

@@hape3862 I just know india is a larger supplier than China. Thanks for the information.

[@charlenefrench5404]

@@hape3862 that's not true. Almost everything at least one component goes or is processed out of China. I'm a prepper and have been saving medicine for a year now. I knew what was coming.

[@ORDEROFTHEKNIGHTSTEMPLAR13]

@@charlenefrench5404 You've been saving up medication??? Are you from America??

[@tycox8704]

When a young American makes the claim that the socialist healthcare systems in other countries are superior, I’m going to smack him with this video.

[@segretoesconociuto]

I pay a huge part of my wage 15.5% with the public health care here, but the system is broken and it is not at all good.

[@donkey9113]

My girlfriend is working as a surgery assistant in Hamburg and the condition they work under are devastatingly bad, they have too few people and most of them are already burned out, the ones that are not are on the brink of changing their job it’s a really concerning problem

[@igeorgoudi]

Apart from Scandinavia, all the other European countries that I know people from and my own country's health system ( also a European country) face the same problem. It is very troublesome to see that instead of better health treatment, we have it backwards.

[@unclejake154]

There is only one problem...Too many people. Consider that all scandinavian countries have small populations (eg. Denmark 6 million, Sweden 10 million, Norway 5 million, Iceland 0.5 million). Berlin Germany has 3.6 million people. I live in British Columbia Canada. I have not seen my doctor in person in 4 years. My wife needed an in-person appointment and it will take 3 months to see her own doctor or 1 month to see a locum. Some appointments are done over the phone. The system has worked pretty well up to about 6 years ago. I wonder what happened in the last 6 or so years.

[@igeorgoudi]

@@unclejake154 my country has around 10 million people in total and the national health care system is also declining. I think it is a combination of reasons that NHS decline all over the world ( burnout, stagnant protocols, lack of funding, surplus or diseases etc) Covid just put a nail on the coffin of it. I am so sorry that your wife had to wait for so long just for a doctor's appointment, it is just ridiculous how hte appointment system works ( and keep in mind that sometimes the timeline for appointments is fixed , nobody can guarantee that indeed it will take 3 months, they may just say so and have vacant appointments(

[@123JustBecause]

I am an American RN. It is very similar here in the US except I do not see the changes here yet. It is quite desperate. I myself have left the field and no amount of money is sufficient for the work and sacrifice asked. God Bless all healthcare workers.

[@hungrylion7742]

❤❤❤Wishing you the best! I love nurses

[@Lasastard]

It's what happens when you sell off all your core infrastractures and expect everything to turn a profit.

[@mizulightblue]

I am from Austria, living in Finland now. Back, like 10 years ago, it was already a problem in Austria. Some patient slept outside the rooms, in a hospital bed, because there wasn't enough space. But still, the situation back then was way better than it is now. As a nurse you get treated badly, long work hours and not much salary. I have known, back in Austria, a few doctors who also left the country, because salary is higher and you'll get more respect in other countries. But comparing middle Europe's health care system with the Finnish one currently, Germany and Austria still wins. During Corona, middle Europe lost a lot of nurses and doctors unfortunately. But what they said in the beginning, that they are close that children die because they don't have enough staff and/or medication, is something that struggles Finland since a long time. And I'm quite sure that actually whole Europe is suffering from this. Still, Germany, as well as Austria, still do a good job in their health care system, even if it looks a bit grim right now. That the topic is more about money is true, and horrible, but again, this goes for whole Europe. Often it happens, when you get pregnant, the doctor will ask you a few times, if you want to have a C section, this is mainly because they try to make money with you. On this point I want to say, if it is not necessary, don't get a C section, don't let the doctor talk into it, unless you really want one. And, back in Austria, I still remember that a doctor told me, he is awake now for 40 hours, but he still needs to operate me. And so he did, that was a bit scary, but I had no other choice. My mom tried to finish a nurse school, she stopped in the middle, because it was way too hard. Her friend finished the school and still works as a nurse.

[@debbieroberts5866]

If the baby is going to die if you don't get a C- Section, DO IT!

[@rosebeehamili6293]

I'm a Nurse here in Germany. I'm a Nurse in 🇵🇭🇵🇭 my salary there is not enough to support my family so I decided to sacrifice and work here. If talking about the language, its tough and hard but most of my patients would correct me and teach me also. Some patients are nice, funny, are respectful and mostly of them are old (Dementia). You just need to know how to speak, build there trust and just be frank, I understand there situation, being alone here without family and children who should be the one to take care for them it's sad and hard. But mostly of them are independent they already accepted that they don't have any communication from there children or if they would still be remembered, but it's so sad and depressing. That's why I let them feel that they are not alone in this world until there last days.

[@cuc6410]

Often times i wonder how humans could build such a monster society where the family is not a number one priority..it's a shame alots of them abandoned their mothers and fathers in care homes to die. Well I don't blame them but rather the monster society which their government build. More more money and more more degree but little happiness

[@thegrimmreader3649]

Very good report. Thank you!

[@1glenwi]

@The Grimm Reader it’s such a great report and I suggest the doctors & nurses deserve more accolades bcoz they play the best role in the world saving lives.

[@mptw]

Why go to medical training for 10+ years just to be overworked and stuck between patients and administration. You can be a computer engineer and work from home while making a decent wage with better quality of life.

[@seank404]

In Ireland those corridors would have trolleys either side.... Wouldn't be surprised if they started having two people per bed...

[@adrianacanavati8212]

It breaks the heart to see those children

[@dannysmith96134]

Quite painful to see the western model is collapsing in every sector because the system is moving towards money as the central theme and the purpose of existence is lost. Sooner the realisation that money is also a bye product of the process, things will be back to where it was 20-30 years ago.

[@hazelkatz]

Germany needs to loosen up the whole Anerkennungs process (certifying of documents/licenses from other countries). So many people (including myself) who immigrate to Germany can’t work as medical personell due to our licenses not being recognized. To do this, you need to apply for certification, which requires at least B2 lvl of German knowledge certificate (even if you’re fluent), costs money. Then you need to translate all documents in Germany, not elsewhere, which costs a ton of money. Then you need to get these originals and translations approved by a notary, which guess what, also costs money. Then the application to the institution costs at least 500 euros, and you will need additional courses and practice (which is paid very little)… so you’re stuck in this cycle of working a low paid job (just so you can live here and afford rent), can’t afford to pay for the whole Anerkennung, and no institution cane give you financial aid if you’re employed (even though you earn a minimum wage). I understand you can’t employ people who might seem less certified, you do work with people and their lives might depend on you, but if you clearly have shortage of staff, then make it a bit easier for others to work. Give financial aid (with an option to pay back when you earn enough), allow people to avoid the language certificate if you can clearly see that they are fluent, and please allow them to also learn while working.

[@geraldinefaure4635]

well exactly the same situation in FRANCE... to the point

[@storage9578]

Same month our local newspaper reported "health insurance company is making record profits and managers are getting bonuses" came a letter " we have higher costs due rona so you have to pay us more insurance" - The only reliable way to increase profits for them is deny services to save costs and demand more money so this is exactly whats been going on to stuff their own pockets. Hospitals got reduced funding for the same cause. Im still fine being younger and healthy but i observed older people fighting insurance to get treatment for years where they got nothing but paperwork why they couldn't get their treatment. In one case old man didnt get his cane til he died - So insurance successfully averted paying a bunch of bucks to help granpa after he paid decades into insurance. And government made it law to pay "social health care" so you can't exit even if you know they are scamming you. What the press reports as "germany is low on corruption" really means is "its all legal cause we passed it into law".

[@christysebastian5821]

High level of beaurocracy n low level of digitisation is the key reason, the nurses or health care professionals are trying but they are simply frustrated n general public and those expat professionals who pay such huge insurance premiums suffer

[@mneonew87]

Netherlands has the same problem with pediatric care. Dutch gov has a great solution: Close more pediatric hospitals.

[@stevenkraft8070]

Declare the pediatric hospitals to be nitrogen polluters, maybe you can at least get a pat on the head from the EU in that case!

[@bryentuoba3661]

I guess in general these problem happened in public hospital worldwide. In Hong Kong, everyone medical staff choose to work in private hospital as paid is better and environment is fantastic.

[@Abelius]

Using public money to finance private hospitals is stupid. We did the experiment at a local level in Spain and now those ones are grossly underperforming.

[@juulssilentstories]

The same in the Netherlands. Economic above all. And that is why more people leave this sector.

[@Monaleenian]

But the Netherlands is famous for its food production. Economics rules the roost there and the outcomes are excellent for both producers and consumers. I think that you need to think more deeply about this..

[@mdrafiqul2898]

That's what happens when your medical schools have the requirement to score 95% in high school diploma and still the drop out rate skyrockets.

[@chegu613]

it's not necessarily that - there are enough people who finish medical school. the bad working conditions in hospitals are the main reason nobody wants to work in hospitals anymore, especially when other businesses hire doctors and pay them well. the shifts in hospitals are horrendous, why do that if you can have a 9-to-5 for the same pay.

[@mdrafiqul2898]

@@chegu613 extra workload in hospitals is a byproduct of the lack of health professionals. Besides, many doctors in Germany prefer private practice now a days because of too many regulations from the public health insurance companies. On the top of that, a lot of doctors are moving out of Germany because of the high taxes and social contributions they have to pay. People have to pay twice more social contributions in Germany than the OECD average. One of my friend's mother is a heart surgeon in Germany. My friend told me that the net salary his mom gets is equivalent to the net salary of a senior nurse in the hospital even though there is a big difference in the gross salary. They were pretty much dissatisfied with the German social system. As a result they moved to the USA a couple of months ago.

[@lelouchbrit6742]

As a Indian doctor in India I've been constantly getting messages/ emails from Norway Germany Holland for jobs...but learning a new language isn't easy... I hope they can manage.

[@keokhuatee2662]

Some experienced German, French, and Italian nurses are pulled by Switzerland's better remuneration package.

[@neumoi3324]

About 55 or 60 years back my mother got her ureterectomy operation done in a hospital in Delhi. After a stay of four days she was discharged and reast of the treatment took place at our home. A doctor used to look her up at home and gave simple treatment. She fully recovered and lived 40 more years. Looking at the complaints here, the medical services seem far more effective then. We were only lower middle class people. What happened to all that?

[@crazyboyfu456]

*hysterectomy not uterectomy

[@johnniewalker230]

@@crazyboyfu456 one of the many illogical medical terms where the organ has a Latin name and the procedure one derived from Greek.

[@crazyboyfu456]

@@johnniewalker230 so? When using a term, y not use the correct one? 🤔

[@crazyboyfu456]

@@johnniewalker230 also, medical field is not something that there should only be english. Medical field is universal. U can find terms derived from French, latin, Greek, arabic, sanskrit and many more. So what's your point?

[@nativefraulein5801]

I am a teacher in Germany. I think we also have to look very critically at the role the education system plays here. My high schoolers, despite our best efforts, are not graduating with the work ethic and cognitive skills that one needs to have to take on serious medical careers. Mathematics, the sciences and a development of interpersonal social skills needs to be made a top priority in secondary schools.

[@0Turbox]

... but they are great in throwing fireworks.

[@cesarhernandez769]

Go to the US and look at our students, trust me, you’ll gain more confidence in your students as soon as you see their limited abilities

[@nativefraulein5801]

@@cesarhernandez769 I am from the US. The problems I am talking about seem to be universal :(

[@bsrhoad]

Everyone wants to be a manager, lol

[@lostinthecityofbooks6711]

Sounds like teachers are lazy at teaching students. Maybe force teachers to work over summer instead of having three months off.

[@jukkl]

privatisation ruined everything.

[@annaredding]

It's also happening in the UK's NHS.

[@loganwolfram4216]

The best healthcare system in the world (Singapore) is a hybrid public-private system.

[@AgentSmith911]

Privatization is good if done correctly. Like in the Netherlands and Switzerland.

[@jukkl]

@@AgentSmith911 Private companies' sole purpose is to make money. Health care shouldn't do this.

[@AgentSmith911]

@@jukkl Some of the best hospitals in the world are private. The health care services in Netherlands and Switzerland are all privatized and are scoring very high on performance rankings.

[@AdityaAserkar]

There is so much inefficiencies specially in healthcare in germany that is unbelievable. For a country that pays one of the highest taxation and invests one of the highest across the world, the state is abysmal. Compared to eastern countries where a doctor sees hundreds patients per day, compared to here seeing barely 20 a day. The enormous amounts of bureaucracy that goes in to report each patient, the enormous concentration of power in the doctors who run entire clinics as private practices without the possibility to outsourcing basic testing, and testing without need of prescription. Setting up of diagnostic centers without a stationed doctor would be perhaps the only way to tackle the rush. This followed by simply making it enormously difficult for doctors from other countries to work in germany given the insane number of legal and language requirements to start their practice even when the fact remains that appointments are available after months. Worse part, doctors also not being well versed with english and english medical literature dilutes the efficacy of diagnosis. Seems like there is no end to this in sight.

[@Phoenix-J81]

My mom was a nurse. (Retired now) and she said it's the abuse that nurses have to put up with from patients. It was especially bad during the worst of the pandemic. My mother's boss was an awful woman too, which didn't help matters. The whole idea is, "work until you break, who cares about your feelings." Its absolutely wrong!

[@Malusdarkblades11]

The problem with less staff is that there will be more work for the Staff left so they will quit as well...