Why Halo Struggles to Evolve

[@Boxsteam]

"So which one is truly enhanced mobility" Damn, that question hit hard

[@DemonjustinofPhoenix]

Makes you realize mantling and the like aren't so much about us getting places we previously couldn't, but more about adding a sense of immersion to our movement since we feel as though we've moved our maximum amount we could've. But that trade-off comes at the cost of gameplay, because then it is designed with that in mind, so while an animation is added and a flow is somewhat broken, we don't genuinely access any additional locations.

[@HonorableTaco]

Ironically Favyn, the scarab encounter is such a good example that even you sold it short. Your mission isn't to board the scarab to take it down, just to take it down. It may be insanely difficult, but you can kill it without even boarding it with a god-tier grenade throw or rocket shot. It's ultimate in its freedom of approach, it is the anti-set piece.

[@fastmadcow]

My thought exactly. "Kill the scarab" That is your objective! :D

[@JOHNsotiriadis98]

One of the best things in halo campaign

[@tobsmonster2]

I loved seeing that innovation from them back in the day. The jump in player interaction and sandbox utilisation between the Scarab fight in Halo 2 and this encounter in Halo 3 was remarkable.

[@JOHNsotiriadis98]

@@tobsmonster2 and then you have that weird thing in halo 5 which is in the background all the time and in the end you just land on it.

[@justfitz08]

I was recently replaying splinter cell chaos theory and it also has a ton of cool sandbox elements. Ones that might not even be apparent on the first playthrough. I love when games do that stuff, and it's something we saw more often in older games unfortunately.

[@soundlessbird9181]

Only thing I want to say:REQ system is the most disgraceful thing in the Halo franchise

[@MGrey-qb5xz]

Miles better then that gay gear box system in gears 4,even multiplayer mobile games aren't that scummy and manipulative

[@Americanbadashh]

@@MGrey-qb5xz Wow Gay as an insult, is this 2009?!

[@MGrey-qb5xz]

@@Americanbadashh username checks out.

[@GallowayJesse]

Loadouts, abilities, and ordinance in Halo 4 were worse.

[@digizilla164]

@@GallowayJesse reach had three of those and yet people like you will defend that shit game.

[@FavynTube]

Wow! I am absolutely overwhelmed by the support this video has gotten. The amount of times it has been shared and discussed on various platforms is exciting and I'm very happy to see people enjoyed it so much. The positive feedback isn't limited to just fans of the older games either, I've seen a lot of fans of Halo 5 express that this video helped them see a new perspective and that's very exciting as well. I just wanted to address a couple things that have come up. The first is despite having a lot of fans who like Halo 5 express that this video showed them a different perspective, some naturally took it as an attack on the game they love. Please note I'm not trying to say you can't enjoy Halo 5 for what it is. I believe you can still like Halo 5 while also acknowledging and understand the points this video is trying to make. and lastly there is a clip I highlight at 13:21 that some have expressed may not be accurate. It was in Observer mode during a Live HCS event and while I'm aware theater mode has serious perspective issues, I could not find anything regarding observer mode being a serious issue or anything concrete to say the clip is inaccurate. But I've spoken to a few people who believe it's at least a possibility so out of fairness and transparency I do want to say there's a chance that particular clip did not occur strictly due to the bullet magnetism in Halo 5 and there could be other factors at play as well. Regardless the bullet magnetism on Halo 5's sniper rifle is still ridiculous. and if you don't want to accept the example I provided then I'm happy to provide another one. Here's a video made by Aozolai that highlights bullet magnetism in Halo 5. kzbin.info/www/bejne/b32xiYtvqNGefc0 At the end of this video he shows the Halo 5 Sniper Rifle's magnetism so you can see that what I'm talking about is absolutely true. ( Though most people who brought this up also acknowledged it was true anyway) Anyway thanks again for all of the support. Keep spreading the video and also stay tuned for more because I got a lot coming your way soon!

[@Hosty_BR]

Favyn keep up the good work brotha!

[@MuscledRMH]

In my opinion, Halo should go back to the always guns up mentality despite my enjoyment of Reach, 4 and 5.

[@ZSTE]

MuscledRMH In defense of Reach, you could sprint, you just couldn’t evade, drop shield, armor lock, jetpack, ... Sprint was more of an ability than a core feature.

[@ls200076]

@@ZSTE Evading was there.

[@Chrisspru]

the problem with the new abilities is not simply "simplicity", but the intrusion on simple gameplay and the divide in required gameplay they create. sprint forces a move vs. shoot tradeof. the same goes with thrusters. ground pound and spartan charge are not player steered. hovering is forced. clamber exceedes normal crouchjumps in usefullness. rhese things could be fixed, but if not they should go.

[@Chrisspru]

for example: -make sprint not move vs. shoot, but give it ghost boost behavior, while allowing shooting. this removes the close quarters and open field scaling problem - make thrusters behave like voluntary mini mancanons. - give clamber and crouch jump the same height advantage, but make them stackable. - remove spartan cgarge and ground pound, but let extra momentum increase your melee damage (your suceptability to it too) - make hover bound to crouch+jump+zoom to make it more voluntary and remove the hover-crouch exploit.

[@ZSTE]

nicolas guzman So sprint is an ability which you could swap out for other abilities in Halo 5? Boy I must be mistaken for sure.

[@shawnSTNCH]

I’ve been saying this for YEARS and get scoffed at for saying mobility is what’s killing halo. Thank you for articulating it so well and showing evidence.

[@DigitalVanquish]

I think this is your best Halo video yet. You've clearly explained why gameplay is more important than it seems on the surface, and why classic mechanics are better for Halo. Great work, Fav.

[@JBzucc]

Its a bit one sided, like i halo 5 is not my favorite in the series but the multiplayer becomes more in depth when you know how much you can do in the movement, on the surface it looks like its making things easier for casuals but after seeing how much you can do with it its changed my opinion on the game all together, i don't think its a perfect game but i still think sprint, thrust and clamber has a place in the sandbox, if you look at how some maps in 5 can be traversed is absolutely unbelievable, the thing is i don't see a difference between that and all these trick jumps in the previous games, I'm not trying to seem like a 5 apologist but i think a lot of people that have the opinion that its mechanics don't belong are uneducated on the subject, i was of the opinion the 5 mechanics didn't belong but I've since changed my mind after realizing the full potential, this is coming from someone that has 4 as his favorite halo multiplayer, i had such a bitterness for 5 cause of all the shit i was being fed, don't be like the old me

[@Onlyinthe619]

@@JBzucc Bro at the end of the day the people who have been there since day 1 have a sense of what halo should look, sound and play/feel like. For me it's not a Bungie/343 thing either. Reach started it, and 4 and 5 has changed it all. All the newer fans who have been introduced to these "halo" games just don't have the same background to the series that we do. 343 felt that they needed to evolve Halo and they may have needed to in order to compete, but they didn't just evolve halo, they changed almost every last aspect.

[@Ben-fq1lj]

While I love favn, I don’t see any suggestions; rather parallels that are great for how it should evolve but not how do we execute that in a literal do this sense. I’m at least glad he acknowledges the fan base is to blame when it comes to their bitching about halo; in my eyes both 343 and the community are to blame equally in different ways. It’s like marriage, if you don’t communicate well, the relation suffers. Both parties have to talk through it....unfortunately that’s really hard when you have 7-9 million fans that all have different ideas and beliefs.

[@DigitalVanquish]

The only positive thing he could have really said about advanced mobility, is that it's fun. He explained why it limited the other four aspects of the gameplay experience. Or, more so, makes it harder to implement them well. It's all still feasible, with either classic or advanced mobility, but it's more difficult and less consistent with the latter. I would personally like for Thrusters and Clamber to remain, just not Sprint. I don't often use it in Area, as I prefer to have my weapon up at all times, and have found my results to have improved since doing so. Of course, this then leaves me with stretched out maps, as I'm not travelling at full speed most of the time. It's all just personal preference though, at the end of the day. If I really really want a modern Halo game with classic mechanics in Multiplayer, I have Halo 2: Anniversary. But if Halo Infinite has advanced mobility again, I just really hope that Ground Pound and Spartan Charge aren't in Multiplayer...

[@JBzucc]

@@Onlyinthe619 i get you, but I've been there since CE mate, ce is probably my favorite tied with 4 but i really dislike 2, 3 and reach for how much different reasons but i get you ay, its not the same but i still think there can be a place for enhanced movement, I'm not just someone that had 4 or 5 be his first halo

[@ScantilyCladPlatypus]

Honestly that clips showing movement and shooting in Halo 2 was a perfect example of what the new movement has taken away from halo

[@servicetagE13]

i thought i was ok with all the mechanic changes until this video reminded me how badass and tactical you could be moving around the map in the old games... and the sense of reward pulling off cool movements across a map

[@shadowranger937]

Google halo 3 with high field of view, imagine how even more badass that would be (if actually designed for and maybe not so high a field of view)

[@shadowranger937]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/p5fLmYGrpLaGg6c

[@gamersinger5118]

Armen Spendjian Yep. A detailed and very informal evaluation of these concepts has certainly opened my eyes. It is absolutely true that without all the extra added abilities like permanent sprint, clamber, and so on ,Halo is truly better off that way. Instead expanding on the core ideas which made the original games so amazing. I have changed my mind and stance on many things especially sprint. But it is unfortunately hard to see such an idea removed after it has lingered for so long already. I just can't see them removing it. I want them too but I just can't see it happening now.

[@Hirotoro4692]

@@shadowranger937 that looked hideous. 150 is way too high a FOV.

[@ChristianJPronk]

One of the few channels where a half hour video doesn't feel like a drag. Great video as always!

[@Error5577]

Just ask yourself this. What would play faster, a game where you can move at top speed and shoot at the same time or a game where you're constantly forced to drop your weapon while moving around the map? Sprint, clamber and thrust aren't just illusions, they punish movement and all slow the game down. And about the sandbox, 343 dug their own grave trying to balance auto aim and magnetism with 3 different movement speeds in the game (Normal, Thrust and Sprint). It's impossible, and the same goes for map design. You can only scale any bridge, room or jump for one movement speed. This means that any part of the map is going to feel wrong and play bad when traveling at a different one. And you can't really strike a balance either because that'll ruin the composition. At the end of the day preferring Advanced Mobility or old school Halo is just a preference, but when all the top small team forgers (aka the best design minds in the community) claim Halo would do better without them you kind of have a problem.

[@Ty-rw3jk]

Either way gun fights in halo 5 feel a lot faster (and in my opinion better) I love thrust and sprint I think it's great and really hope it's not removed.

[@JiimmmmmmmmmmmY]

Then I have to explain to them that I was once a retarded fanboy who kept playing that garbage because I was in denial. I was trying REAL hard to like that game. A few months in I ended up giving up because I could no longer stand 343 and their bullshit. And most of the games I played were just me boosting for unlockables. I barely played ANY legit matches in halo 4. You know you're not having fun playing the game when all you're interested in is grinding. If the game was actually good then you wouldn't feel the need to sit there grinding away because that's not actually playing. If the game was good you wouldn't see me talking shit about it all of the time on my channel right? Lol! If it was good then shouldn't I have played it as much as Reach, Halo 1-3, and even odst? Heck... I think I might have played halo wars 1 more than halo 4 lol. The only truly good thing about halo 4 is that it helped wake me up to bullshit in the gaming world and why I shouldn't trust 343. Perhaps they will get their shit together one day in the future (Not bloody likely since they love cod and micro transactions)... But for now I know for a fact that 343 blows. I wont give them a chance unless they do the following with halo 6... Split screen Tons of content A great storymode Sick visuals Make the game hardly like cod and mostly make it feel like HALO NO MICRO TRANSACTIONS! Heck... Maybe they should also launch the game for 40 bucks instead of 60 as a means of apology for fucking us over with their lies for so many years? Heck I dunno... Give us something to make up for your shitty games right??? I'm pretty much 99.9999999999999999999% sure though that halo 6 wont pull off what I just wrote and that it will just be another generic shooter with micro transactions, lies, and codlike game play. I would love to be wrong but I'm probably right so you wont see me getting hyped lol. NOT... ONE... BIT. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jH6XfYuBYpiZopY

[@corbinholmes5630]

@HighEuphoria Perhaps you should fuck off back to 2007 and let him have his own opinion asshole; the og fandom really need to go outside, expose their vampire skin to the sun for first time in 12 years, stg it's like reinventing the wheel. If you think that him liking sprint and clamber is holding Halo back, your inability to tolerate other opinions and appreciate them is what is truly driving it into the ground

[@char6102]

@@JiimmmmmmmmmmmY It's funny you say that about Halo 4 when it is just Reach with sprint. Then you want Halo to not feel like COD when it already doesn't come close to COD. You say you want it to feel like Halo but which one? They all feel different from each other be it CE's smaller sandbox and god pistol to H2's horrendous button combos and difficulty spike for legendary, H3 making the BR a projectile weapon and removing button combos from the game, ODST made you feel vulnerble and brought in a new perspective, and Reach expanding the sandbox by adding armor abilities (fuck armor lock). H4 really only adds sprint and you write it off just because it contains one mechanic that altered movement and gave players choice of moving faster in exchange of not shooting. You are just bored of Halo; if you're peak enjoyment of Halo was in 2007 then go back to that year and play it.We don't need Halo to become a re-release of H3 every 2 years like COD. Let the rest of us who are willing and want to see new things in Halo in peace.

[@JiimmmmmmmmmmmY]

343 is copying call of duty. It's lost its fanbase.

[@SpectreManz]

I was gonna say DOOM 2016 is a good example of a shooter without sprint

[@admiral_waffles533]

Or CS:GO. It just feels so refreshing and cool to do other things while running or jumping instead of being locked to an animation.

[@HowlingDoom]

I say DOOM gets around not having a Sprint by being extremely fast pace. Doomslayer is never walking unless you make him walk, you always have this feel of extremely high speeds of movement. Older Halo's you feel extremely slow and cumbersome, if they do remove Sprint base movement speed should be increased. Definitely not to DOOM's speed but noticeably faster, as if always sprinting

[@raaaaaaaaaam496]

ImpendingGhost no it doesn’t feel slow. As shown in the video since the maps are smaller you can get around faster.

[@ryanwilliams5093]

They should increase the field of view, that's what makes it feel slow when walking. A wide field of view will make you feel like you're moving faster, a good example is halo ce vs. halo 3

[@cousinvinnie6222]

@@raaaaaaaaaam496 Well, if Infinite turns out to be open-world as it's rumored to be, an increase in base speed may be necessary. Unless 343 comes up with a fast travel system like Zeta Halo's teleporter network.

[@coffinbunnyzoey]

Halo's gameplay has a purity that I would compare to quake. Obviously they aren't very similar games but if they added things like ironsights and clamber to quake it would just be wrong. Even the newest quake still plays similarly to quake 1, if you got really good at quake champions you could probably pick up the old ones as well. But getting good at halo 5 won't make you good at the original trilogy, because it's so much different. I think halo is very much a movement shooter, and adding things like clamber and sprint that are basically just assists to make the game easier takes away what makes the game a movement shooter. I think that raw movement in games is always better than having abilities like clamber or automated rocket jumping (Overwatch). Innovate and improve on the dynamics, make it more smooth, don't change the games mechanics.

[@kwayke9]

Ironsights in quake? Never played that game, but that sounds just wrong, you're damn right on that

[@Ben-fq1lj]

I think the equipment pickups from halo 3 are underrated as to how much they kept the game fresh while still keeping the identity of halo in tact. It wasn’t as helpful for slayer, but for objective games equipment like the bubble shield revolutionized the dynamics of objective control. For instance if in multi-flag, if an enemy team member was stole the flag and then died with the flag in the crossfire, a player could throw the bubble shield to protect his fellow players and help recover the flag. It wasn’t overpowered like armor lock and only lasted just enough time to give equal opportune time. If you needed to capture a territory or the bomb you planted you had a chance to use it to keep the enemy from bombarding you with grenades or if it became close combat with br’s you had a chance to try to time the grenade throw right and jump out of the bubble shield and hope they took the damage. If players were being held down by a warthog, you could throw a power drain down to have one chance to quickly stun the vehicle if your plasma pistol couldn’t hit them, or if two team players came upon you out of nowhere, you had a slight window to quickly throw it and headshot them both in hopes of not being double teamed. With regen you had a slight window to recover in a fight or hold the objective just that extra second longer needed. Radar and flash equipment was pointless (but then again I use to think all the equipment was just there and not helpful at all for a long time, so who knows).

[@CrzyMoose64]

I've seen a bunch of your videos. You're able to put your finger on the magic of Halo. It's too bad you don't get more views and have more influence. I'd love to see a full return to the classic Halo gameplay.

[@adelaltamimi1279]

When you brought up the orange gel from Portal, I instantly pictured the grav lifts on Valhalla from Halo 3

[@tobsmonster2]

Oh man how could I forget. They were such a great inclusion that made that fairly large map easily accessible in vehicle or on foot.

[@Seedonator]

I think you meant blue gel, thats the one that bounces you back from the same momentum you landed on it with

[@adelaltamimi1279]

@@Seedonator no i didnt mean blue gel. I meant orange gel.

[@Seedonator]

@@adelaltamimi1279 oh k

[@Hot18Shot]

I thought the same exact thing!

[@BBKDRAGOON]

This is so good dude, seriously, WELL DONE!

[@SleepingLion525]

What do you mean? Halo’s combat is evolved...sorry I’ll leave

[@joeyvitale24]

No, stay. That was rad lol

[@otherZinc]

@Alex M, Correct! This dude ain't shit. He's like Crapgamer. This dude is about to make a living off Sony fans that hate Halo. Crapgamer, is trying to make a living off sony fans that hate XBOX. Halos control is Superior to All FPS Games. Now, I'll delete this dude, that his show never appears in my line ever again.

[@zeeboss7553]

otherZinc I love halo, and it’ll always be my favorite game series, this guy has a point, open your ears, he is not talking trash on halo, he telling you why it can’t evolve to the next level and as a veteran I find that true.

[@otherZinc]

@@zeeboss7553, Ok, cool. He should try Killzone.

[@kleenxwipes7776]

thank u

[@xAstraeusMLGx]

I really hope Halo Infinite is a true return to form. Classic is the only way to go. I hope 343 isn't just riding the nostalgia wave with just the art style. Amazing video!

[@lightningbum]

Um...

[@Doubleback99]

Well....

[@tofigh09tmt39]

Uh...

[@starrailcrusader]

Yeah...

[@IVOLUKE]

You see what happened was....

[@Nevirate]

I’m still seeing that realism excuse around. “Makes me feel like a super soldier.” So super soldiers have to put their gun down while running, thrusting, climbing? Thought they were super soldiers, not average joes. Glad Doom knows what makes you feel “super”.

[@S1erra107]

In Doom you have to lower your gun while climbing too luls No I’m not blind to your overarching point, but it’s still not airtight

[@Nevirate]

Resolute I never said Halo and Doom were the same. Doom never had crouch jumping or even jumping back in the day last I checked.

[@ls200076]

@@Nevirate I has in the 2000's. They added evade, climbing and hook. Looks nice.

[@cas343]

Super augmentation is beside the point; However fast a person is when running without swinging their arms, they'll be faster when swinging their arms. It'a not about being "super", its an inescapable fact of how bipedal creatures move. Look at the robots being designed by the army. All their arms swing when running. There could be ways to implement a gun stabilization system, but not while the character holds the weapon in his hands.

[@Skweanky]

So you want to climb without using a single hand? makes sense lol also you want shoot while sprinting? oh that wouldn't be overpowered, would it be? LMAO a Spartan are super soldier not a Thanos or Superman...

[@FavynTube]

Thanks for watching! This video in a lot of ways acts as a table of contents for both concepts we've discussed in the past as well as what we'll discuss in the future. I wanted to highlight the fact that so many of these concepts are connected and that changing one can affect the others. If any of these topics interest you I'd encourage you to stick around to see what else I have in store for the near future! Also lastly when discussing "sandbox" elements in this video I realize that term can have a variety of meanings and be expanded to a much broader definition but hopefully I explain myself enough so that you know what I am referring to in the video. As always I appreciate your support and please discuss the video in the comments. I read every reply.

[@jamesf4083]

what do you think about 343 putting the spartan abilities (spartan charge, ground pound, thrust etc) and amour abilities ( jet packs, hologram, active camo and evade etc) pick ups on the map in halo infinite so 343 can add and remove them at a whim when designing maps. do you think it would be able to satisfy both classic and modern halo players? any keep up the great content love your vids

[@will_of_europa]

@@jamesf4083 See that is a much better idea. I argue that Reach was not the runner up to Halo 4, as the abilities were items, and thus, controllable via encounter. If all those were items or loadouts, the map design wouldn't suffer nearly as badly, and the encounters would be more complex. Does my opponent have charge or does he have armor lock? I don't like loadouts in general, but the idea isn't game breaking for me.

[@sulfoniccurve5589]

I don't buy this. If that was the case, then why does a series like Gears that covers all 5 points is struggling the same if not more than Halo.

[@FavynTube]

@@sulfoniccurve5589 those are very different games my friend. Gears is certainly not a "simple" game. Mechanically

[@will_of_europa]

@@sulfoniccurve5589 Because Gears 4 story and campaign was shit. Gear never had as big of a following as halo, but it at least was cool. Now... you fight robots... yeah... fun...

[@rosarivas7030]

A lot of people think that “simple” is bad. It isn’t. Simple gameplay mechanics makes way for complex interactions and strategy that doesn’t solely rely on muscle memory. What made Halo multiplayer so unique is the fact that while it gave limits to the player in terms of movements it gives more characters to maps and scenery. A map like last resort is iconic not solely because it’s well designed and nice to look ar but because it was made to interact with Halo 3’s player mechanics. A map like that will just not work with Halo 5’s movement. Halo was always about decision making and while that’s true for other shooters Halo has a unique way of doing it. For Halo to evolve it doesn’t need to add more mechanics. Quality not quantity. Halo’s simple control design gives more emphasis on learning how to use those simple controls and how to use them effectively. Another thing I like to mention is that Halo’s mechanics are more linked closely than people think. If you add enhanced mobility y then you get rid of or lessen the need for vehicles making big team battle utterly broken. In Halo 5 I have no interest to get into a warthog or a mongoose. In fact adding more to what the player can do also diminishes the need for team work, something needed Halo.

[@Skweanky]

Simple is for noobs that why alot of you like "classic" because that all you noobs can do and Halo 5 mechanics are too much for you to handle.

[@kade3682]

@@Skweanky are you 12

[@Skweanky]

@@kade3682 was the truth harsh on you? oh sorry OLD man

[@mcdirty311]

@@Skweanky one day you'll grow up and won't have >40 hours a week to play video games. I always liked halo because it was something to pick up for a couple hours a week and have a great time whether that's campaign or multiplayer. Focused on decision making and traversing the environment, which was much easier to remember after a short period of gameplay. Then build strategies when interactions came up there and if they didn't work maybe try something different. The abilities in H5 ruined the gameplay for me because whether I should run and make myself vulnerable was one of the bigger decisions to make. Just didn't feel like halo. I know, get better scrub, right?

[@thelvadam2884]

@@Skweanky Ohhh SHUT up u pathetic kid

[@slayridah]

Halo 5 is my personal favorite and ive always wondered why people hated these abilities so much, despite me playing since Halo 2. This vid did a great job explaining what i had such a hard time grasping. As much as i love H5, i agree with every point you put forward. Great content!

[@TheRealLazyEntrepreneur]

I don’t like H5 at all and this comment is awesome . I also can understand why the multiplayer would be appealing for others.

[@raaaaaaaaaam496]

If 343 started with classics gameplay in halo 4 they would be the biggest developer on earth by now.

[@giovanniledezma2202]

Nah halo wars 2 is the best graphics

[@giovanniledezma2202]

@Teh Modest Mouse Oh I thought the original comment what talking about graphics were the best but I thought the halo wars 2 graphics were pretty good because of their design

[@GamingTalk-cl7xj]

Then why is Halo 5 more popular then the entirety of MCC?

[@raaaaaaaaaam496]

GamingTalk2099 1.its not and 2. That’s cause this game is a failed product

[@GamingTalk-cl7xj]

Teh Modest Mouse it is higher up on the list of most popular Game Pass downloads

[@pawn4129]

Favyn, do you think Halo Infinite will take these aspects you and others have mentioned into account? It seems quite iffy that 343 hasn't shown us any gameplay yet.

[@TorinAst]

They will probably keep sprinting and clamber, because "eVeRy ShOoTeR HaVe ThEm"

[@will_of_europa]

@@TorinAst I'd much rather have teleporters and man cannons than sprint. Notice Halo 5 pretty much didn't have them.

[@TorinAst]

@@will_of_europa Its funny how since halo 4, the sandbox has devolved in favor of mobility, no man cannons, no teleporters, no new and interesting weapons or vehicles. Halo is a full package, campaign, multiplayer, music, art style, sandbox, campaign levels, weapons, enemies, everything is important for a halo game to be considered good.

[@will_of_europa]

@@TorinAst And halo 5 released with half a campaign and only half of those features.

[@chrisr6950]

its going to be a disappointment i promise you

[@rykerduquette6783]

Bungie's level design was always solid, tangeable even in out of bounds areas... 343's environment feels like a poster was slapped in the background and hinders their levels' immersion IMO.

[@TheJcloudj]

I like the always guns up. Movement speed was perfect in the older Halo games, felt like I was playing Doom but more "realistic"

[@LateNightHalo]

I personally feel halo’s always been an “iterative” franchise and began dividing the community at a level that makes CE vs H2 vs H3 seem tame. when it began “evolving” there were legacy elements of its core identity that started to clash with these “evolutions” and now they’re kind of at-war with each other. I’m glad I’m not alone in this feeling towards halo’s “growing pains”

[@joshuaquintero4817]

I don't understand why they don't just increase movement speed and get rid of sprint like doom did if they want a faster pace

[@DescendingBlade]

Joshua Quintero Exactly, ID Software did a nearly perfect job with Doom’s player movement.

[@joshuaquintero4817]

@@DescendingBlade right? Plus it could help halo feel more fair because you would have a greater chance to dodge enemy attacks with skill instead of luck

[@chadhawley7050]

If 343 wants to add a lot of depth to Infinite they can look at H3 for what their sandbox could be like, look at H2 for map scaling, and look at Combat Evolved for the various grenade tricks. CE fascinates me with all the power plays you can make with greande tricks. Taking out the enhanced mobility and focusing on such power plays on interesting maps with solid sandbox physics would IMMEDIATELY make the game more interesting and FUN

[@zsmorr92]

I'm kind of torn on this. I'm a long time fan of the series, and I do enjoy the original more "simple" feel of the game. But on the other hand, I kind of want the game play that more closely resembles what Spartans are capable of. I mean, compare the way Chief and the other Spartans move and behave during cutscenes and other videos, to the way you move about in the Halo games (especially 1-3). There's a bit of a disconnect there. Chief should feel like playing a superhero, because for all intents and purposes, he is. Compare him to someone like Captain America, Chief is stronger and faster than Cap WITHOUT his MJOLNIR armor, and with it he's kind of a monster. I mean a Spartan's top speed is in the 50-60mph range, with a more average easy running pace of 30-40mph. My point being, some of these abilities do call for a more dynamic and advanced gameplay, even beyond what we've had so far. I'm not sure if we'll ever get a game that truly feels like playing a Spartan, and I don't know if such a game could be fun and still feel at all like Halo. It's obviously a difficult task.

[@M1LK1E]

I feel the same way

[@bj0urne]

If you think Halo is sensitive to change, you havn't heard of Counter-Strike. A new weapon divides the community.

[@owenmcquarrie586]

Yeah you're right lmao. I think consistency is the key to CS feeling like a competitive shooter.

[@gnomechumpksi1252]

343 really weakened the halo storytelling, the online to me resembled more futuristic cod than it did proper halo. And the class/card system took away the halo identity in Multiplayer.

[@gamersinger5118]

Gnome Chumpksi With Halo 5 I would agree but 4 was actually a really good story and some elements might have been even stronger rather than weakened. Overall though I see what you mean.

[@thaneros]

The fanbase is the reasons Halo struggles to evolve. The hardcore Halo community has more dislike for change than some 70 year olds.

[@fastmadcow]

Nah, it's just the way they did it. I'd love new halo games that "evolve" over time. Like I really love Reach, it added new things in a way that didn't change the core feeling that Halo gave. Halo 5 on the other hands, a game which tries to shove all of it down your throat at once. Which is exactly what Halo 5 did. When you play Halo you expect to play Halo. What you need to realize is that the older halo is what we kind of expected from Halo 5. Not CoD Advanced Warefare or Titan fall 2. If we wanted to play those games we would go and play those games. So we wanted to play Halo and the game just never released as a "Halo" game, you feel me? That is from a game play standing though. Now this is where the true hardcore fan comes out instead of just a casual player. The lore made no sense, the abilities came out of nowhere apparently Spartans never had them UNTIL now. Plot holes everywhere (unless you read the books)

[@thaneros]

@@fastmadcow Sorry for the late reply but plot holes have been with the series since day 1: halo.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_inconsistencies_in_Halo

[@ectomorph_7]

If you have to explain this to a game developer…we’re fucked

[@doomer6521]

Halo 5: Combat Devolved

[@dgus6814]

It’s sad that the best argument against this is, “idk I just like the new abilities :-)”

[@S1erra107]

You probably only hear surface level arguments then

[@darkrain491]

@@S1erra107 that's cause those are the only arguments that exist in favour of abilities. Even those who can explain what they do to Halo in terms of gameplay are ultimately only left with the defense of "they like them because of these changes". Ultimately they are defending their enjoyment of them which was never up for discussion. The discussion is "are they good for Halo overall?" And the answer is a resounding no because they objectively make other important aspects of Halo weaker just to accommodate them without them breaking the game.

[@TheChadPad]

Because it's all about them right?

[@AllisterH]

See, you are ALREADY orejudiced against them, What exactly is wrong with the idea of "players like these ew abilities". I've checked out the OP videoes and his solution is always the same basically... "Sandbox gameplay". Sandbox gameplay is basically map control which going by how well OTHER arena shooters are doing, isn't popular among the vast masses. I do think a lot of the problems with Halo is the mistaken belief that player tastes don't change over time.

[@cerebralcloud92]

AllisterH Considering the majority of the community’s reactions, they’re not liking what they’re tasting now.

[@thepermanentshockedface9177]

There's nothing more frustrating than getting killed on halo 5 while being mid animation...

[@josht2239]

No Sprint, no climb mechanic, mlg playlist, a good ranking system , br start, balanced power weapons, good maps, and now you got a Halo we can talk about and get excited about, until then piss off 343.

[@andrewgallagher7690]

You mean Halo 3? Haven’t we already played that game? Halo Reach did a really nice job with its spartan abilities. Why do you want to start all over instead of trying to tweak and evolve what we have now?

[@josht2239]

@@andrewgallagher7690 it's like saying to csgo players let's put in Sprint for the heck of it and also let's put the slide mechanic in the game as well...you obviously don't because you would ruin the core experience of the game, just like what they did to Halo. Halo is too far gone and it can't be redeemed so it's pointless talking about it.

[@C0b4ltN1nj4]

absolute madman, uploading at 3am

[@Ty-rw3jk]

I love halo 2 and I love halo 5. I really hope that they don't go back because halo doesn't go back to the trilogy movement. My only problem is the aiming thing. I'll play either way, but my favorite gun fights are in halo 5.

[@evolvedHE]

Favyn this is probably your greatest halo video. Explained so concisely and the use of examples was great. Unfortunately the higher ups at 343 are probably too stubborn to understand this and they will just take a few abilities out to ‘satisfy both sides’.

[@halinaqi2194]

Oh my god you predicted the future.

[@evolvedHE]

@@halinaqi2194 Of course - it's pretty obvious (and really sad)

[@halinaqi2194]

@@evolvedHE I was expecting the dreaded middle ground which is why I'll wait until extensive reviews are released about infinite to see if it's worth my money. I really hope it will be good but the clamber, sliding and sprinting has me worried.

[@Idontknowone1able]

You sir, have almost changed my mind on this issue. Congratulations.

[@will_of_europa]

Thank you for your honesty. It's not wrong to like the new stuff, or even prefer it. It's just, we don't like being called nostalgic lol.

[@Idontknowone1able]

@@will_of_europa Like it really is a hard decision. Im such a Halo fanboy, but even I played the shit out of Halo 5 multiplayer (Im almost max level). Ive really gotten used to the sprint and clamber and I very much enjoy it. But I played through ODST literally yesterday and I was thinking to myself how great this felt, even if it felt a little slow. I don't think they will go back to original movement for Infinite, but I would like to see if they could find at least some happy medium.

[@M1LK1E]

@@Idontknowone1able Well said

[@quantumfrost9467]

Absolute madman, uploading at 6 pm

[@cz.gazz.]

QuantumFrost g’day lad

[@lucapacitti1629]

Fantastic video Favyn! I really appreciate this new direction because people are much more likely listen to and be persuaded by a reasonable guy than an angry shouty guy.

[@Legitti]

Don't change it if it's not broken.

[@Maniac3020]

"Mechanically simple, functionally complex". That's what the first Halo games were.

[@Chaosdude341]

The most articulate video essay I've seen on this point. Usually it just comes across as angry nostalgia, but this is a very, very strong case for classic game play mechanics.

[@Manas_Choudhary]

I like Halo 5 but this video changed my mind on advanced mobility. I want classic gameplay back.

[@space_artist_4real138]

I see that your ideas and analysis is more and more precise and interesting. The ideas proposed in this video greatly match reality and give a satisfying explanation to the state of the newer games!! I'm sold! Simplicity is more than just beautiful, it's functional. Simple can be easier balanced, thus giving more time and resources to explore and expand/deepen all the other aspects the experience is made of. Having simple base mechanics makes it easier to create good maps and content as it's wayy easier to predict and test how players can interact with the environment. How convenient, it has room, time and resources left for innovation! It's for a reason that the simpler Halos had more content: they were simply easier to make, and thus efforts went into making it unique, fun and compelling instead of going in just making it work. Hell I'm starting to understand what makes a good game! Thank you for your videos, and please keep making them; I want to understand further!!

[@jackcolson4745]

Halo: Struggling Evolved

[@aarijjamil6174]

Summary Map design problems Sandbox complexity Movement and accuracy And the biggest problem; Fan base We need to realise that shooters have evolved since Halo 3 and we can’t run away from sprint any more (irony not intended), custom load outs was a problem, never to return again as it unbalanced the golden triangle of Halo, but sprint can’t, and I am happy that people appreciate and are happy with the way movement, sprint, clamber and slide is integrated in Halo Infinite

[@fluffymonkeyyy6617]

I like Halo 5 pop but I wouldn't oppose 343i going back to the old gameplay in Infinite, but it sounds like they're going to have a happy medium of both styles

[@stevenjohnson5783]

I feel like much of the analysis done in this video is widely applicable to many games. I’ll have to do some of my own, but this helped glue some points of focus for arguments that I have for games like Dark Souls, CS:GO, Destiny 2, Warframe, and many more. Much appreciation for the critical analysis!

[@DelliumM8]

Bungie adds armor abilities in Halo reach: "Oh wow finally something new and innovative!" 343 Industries making some illumination changes: "tHis iSn'T hAlO aNYmOrE"

[@Vegeto30294]

Did you miss all the hate the Armor Abilities got back then?

[@DelliumM8]

@@Vegeto30294 I was there, but then all the community started to accept them, to the point they qualify Reach as the best Halo.

[@JoshMC2000]

Jesus that bullet magnetism

[@dtgs4502]

We'll know it's back on track once it has the accessibility of something like Mario Kart, but the capacity for fair, competitive play.

[@sailorbuckaroo]

Remember in halo reach when you could choose your preferred species, like you could choose elite and have its own animations

[@lalipali6895]

Hey Favyn, I love your videos and I agree with many of your points! But, could you maybe discuss the place of thruster pack in Halo, and its effects on core gameplay. Just the thruster alone, without sprint, mantle, and ADS.

[@ThoomLord]

Plus, if you think about it, you walk in classic games, only slightly slower than you sprint in newer games. They didn't add the ability to go faster. They added the ability to go slower, and removed the ability to go fast, and shoot simultaneously.

[@iijumperi8711]

Doom 2016 = The perfect way to evolve halo instead of chasing CoD trends

[@AMPStorm]

Doom 2016 had great multiplayer.

[@couchgamingnews9379]

True but then it be just room clone

[@Luculent]

Apart from... Y'know... That loadout system.

[@DreableNeebal10]

Ironically DOOM has clamber and double jump. But yea I agree to an extent.

[@iijumperi8711]

@@DreableNeebal10 The double jump didnt hinder me shooting. Clamber sure did. Basicly Doom 2016 was mostly Run and Gun unlike something like Halo 5 which is Run OR Gun

[@D00mnukem]

As a casual Halo fan who hasn't played the series since 4, I might have an explaination for their most recent design philosophy when it comes to combat. I know this might sound rich, but hear me out: I remember some time before the release of Halo 2 flipping through those Halo Books, the Del Rey novels, and being absolutely amazed at the amount of lore given to the Spartans. The weapons, armor, how they trained children up to become augmented super soldiers, it made the likes of Master Chief seem like an indestructable terminator. Not that I could realize this as a young child, but looking back, it makes you wonder why the older games seemed way more conventional for the time, especially compared to games like Quake and Unreal, where combat was way more fast-paced and hectic. It seems that the developers, as time went on, wanted to design the gameplay mechanics to better fit the lore of the Spartan super soldier more - to turn Halo into a Power Fantasy, where you are rampaging through the maps and levels at a breakneck speed (or what is percieved to be breakneck speed; as demonstrated in your linked video about movement speed). Halo, for the most part, has always been sort of a power fantasy, but if you go back and play some Halo CE, both in the campaign and multiplayer, the Chief feels very slow and clunky, at least compared to the power-sliding, mantling, jetpacking Spartans of the more modern Halos. In Halo CE, you had just your basic walking speed, a moon jump, and a simple crouch mechanic that seemed only useful for crouch-jumping. Im not trying to poo-poo on the older games; I strongly support the thesis that modern Halo has lost it's focus of design, but I can understand why the devs have made such an effort to make Spartans "feel" like super soldiers. Hopefully, with Infinite, they take a more core-design approach with it, and focus on what makes Halo the game series that it is.

[@razgriz5009]

Halo has evolved since Halo : Combat EVOLVED

[@kiwimarshall3937]

No

[@razgriz5009]

@@kiwimarshall3937 Yes

[@AttiMatter]

Chief.... why..

[@razgriz5009]

@@AttiMatter It had to be done !

[@coltskid-pj5op]

Halo doesn’t need to evolve so

[@hrthrhs]

@3:21 you nailed it. My own thoughts are that almost any change to be made to Halo makes it more generic, so it becomes more like other FPS than a Halo game.

[@j19aiden91]

13:24 talk about getting cheated by design, that was horrid. Halo 5 sucks hard

[@masterchief7427]

j19 Aiden The theatre is shit the shot hit

[@briandrenth2316]

IMO Halo 5's mechanics created a higher skill ceiling (than the previous halo's) for competitive multiplayer at the expense of an overall great game. ShyWay has helped me enjoy the new mechanics, but thanks to the points you've made here, I get why the simple formula is better for Halo overall. Well done.

[@briandrenth2316]

quicknfearless in the classic Halo, your abilities were: walk, jump, crouch, spring jump, nade jump, crouch jump. Right? All of those could be performed while shooting if you can claw the controller appropriately. Those 6 abilities are all present in Halo 5. The difference is that halo 5 added clamber, sprint, slide, Spartan charge, ground pound, thrust, and stabilize (7 more on top of the base 5). This created a new layer of gameplay mechanics, and also allowed for new combinations that could be learned (super jump, stabilize crouch jump, thrust slide jump), and that extra layer movement mechanics is why I think Halo 5 is more competitive.

[@JiimmmmmmmmmmmY]

Yeah, and it turned into a CoD clone.

[@kwood7358]

I want the old weapons back as well in Halo Infinite. I really don’t like the new weapon designs with the only exception being maybe the Magnum.

[@briandrenth2316]

aww come on. that new rocket launcher is the best thing that has happened to halo since Promethean vision :P

[@dannyfive26]

Really good video and the portal example was probably my favorite part. The thing about the movement gels they added in portal was, if a puzzle didn’t want you to move faster they just didn’t have that gel. With sprint and clamber the maps have to be designed with it in mind. They can’t just turn it off.

[@steamysteamguy5365]

OG halo struggles to evolve because it's already perfect.

[@shinoblitz9641]

To start the whole enhanced mobility thing works simply because it’s not about what you can do while moving around, it’s about how you move around, most of us can walk faster than babies run but does that mean we’re using enhanced mobility? Probably not, it’s no different in Halo, technically in bungie halos you’re always running but you can’t clamber over objects to reach positions a normal jump wouldn’t make, you can’t use the momentum of your running to propel you forward in a slide until friction makes you stop, Spartan charge is all thrusters so idc for it. As for sprinting to understand that sprinting is actually enhanced mobility compared to regular running you’ll have to know the difference between the two. I’m no dictionary but imo sprinting is life or death where as running is simply being in a hurry, running is you using the energy you have to get somewhere whole sprinting it’s using that adrenaline boost to push you beyond your normal limit. Sprinting, slide and clamber are welcome enhanced mobilities to me as long as they give Spartans the dexterity to aim while clambering, I mean I can understand having bad aim while sprinting because you need to have a specific balance while on the move or else you’ll fall but Spartans can flip tanks in the game I’m sure they can clamber with one hand and actually shoot in the other with good aim. On the topic of Halo and evolving, simply put to evolve you can’t be the same but you have to have traces of the past, Halo being a fairly simple game there’s not much you really can do to make it different without ducking everything up(as he said similar in the video) however if I could think of the best way I’d suggest taking out the enhanced mobility (except maybe clamber) in exchange for armor ability pick ups across the map like how active camp and over shield is. It’ll feel like Halo 3 with the item pick ups and such however these will be energy usage for example if someone picks up a jet pack they only have the fuel inside to use until it’s gone until respawn, if someone has hologram they can only use is 4 times before it’s depleted. This way every player is equally unless they chose to gain a temporary buff much like the different items and weapons across maps give. In my honest opinion I feel the Halo games won’t ever evolve well enough for the OGs fans to be satisfied with its evolution because if it changes movement if fucks up the maps and weapons and if it adds this little mechanic to the world is shifts the skill gap and messes something else up but if it stays the same players will be angered by 343 releasing the same game with a new story

[@TarsonTalon]

In my opinion, what makes Halo so sensitive to change is its shield mechanic. Sure, other games have regenerating health. However, none of those games give you NEARLY as much total base health. Normally in Halo, it usually takes 4 headshots with a standard precision weapon to kill, whereas in COD it's just one or two. When you have a lot of health backed up by rapid regeneration, adding a bunch of abilities to avoid taking damage makes standard gameplay slow to a crawl. It becomes a war of attrition rather than of skill. The first person to over commit loses in high level play, made evident by that Halo 4 tournament I watched. The match point was literally decided by who ran out of patience first. The rest of the time, they shot at each other and ran away. To make the game playable in Halo 5, they had to mess with how the shield functioned. Why should a mechanic key to the success of the franchise have to be nerfed to make room for a bunch of pointless mechanics that do nothing but circumvent everything that was fun in Halo? Seriously, vehicles do not look fun in Halo 5 when I've watched gameplay. Some poor guy in a ghost simply could not kill someone, because they would sprint, clamber, and thruster pack around ONE PIECE OF COVER, IN THE MIDDLE OF AN OPEN FIELD, until they gave up and tried to find someone else. If it had been another Halo game, the guy would have been dead for being so far out in the open, unless they stuck, EMP'd, or blew up the Ghost before it killed them. But nope, Mr. AR dances infinitely and doesn't have to shoot back, and in fact they can't because as soon as they stop moving, they are dead. So much player engagement. Much wow.

[@GeoJJx]

I think that sniper shot thru the wall was more of an error on the spectator mode, H5 theater also has an issue replaying back how events actually happen, depicting players aiming way off than they really did. But yes, h5 sniper did have a load of magnetism

[@Strife49c]

It's real hard for me picking which gameplay I like because I like both styles: Bungie's and 343's. I loved all Halos, Old and New. It feels like picking whose my favorite child.

[@JosephMelia]

So concise, well thought out and intelligently demonstrated.. and so true.. I only wish 343 shared your understanding of Halo's base mechanics.

[@rosarivas7030]

You should make like a one hour video lol. I’d watch it. Hell! I’d even share it to the one friend I have.

[@tdsangell]

Boring.... Heard it all before. Another Halo 3 old fart. :)

[@BLAM5980]

tdsangell 🤨

[@7dogguy]

I think the main problem with Halo as in all games in the series besides maybe Halo 5 was weapon balance literally just grab a br and you win sniper rifle in Rockets were also really good if you picked up any other weapon you lost. In Unreal Tournament you can do well with every weapon besides the pistol and it is also a map control based game I don't understand why the plasma rifle has to shoot so slow I don't understand why the shotguns range has to be the range of being right next to someone to kill them I don't understand why the assault rifles bullets just stop after like 25 feet in front of you. Halo's weapon sandbox needs reworked. Halo 5 didn't make it more fun by having a more balanced weapon system but that wasn't a classic Halo game and the overall art style Maps and weapons lacked substance in that game. I believe that changing the weapon balance bringing back the classic movement and making new memorable Maps and weapons with the classic art style I wouldn't make multiplayer feel like a brand new experience and could lead to what people consider the best Halo game of all time

[@andrewlynch4126]

The Sword and shotgun can be really powerful on the right map, also the carbine was usually slightly better than the BR just with less ammo available. So I think your point about weapon balance is a bit off, it depends on the game though, there were completely useless weapons like H2 Needlers. but in my opinion most weapons are pretty useful in most games, even assault rifles/ pistols if those are the starting weapons. The sniper/ beam rifle is really overpowered though because it is effective at all ranges, but even then only if you have the skill to consistently land headshots so it’s not too bad.

[@ayeofreach]

I'm making an assumption but I have the bad feeling that the mcc and reach releasing on pc could be early damage control for if halo infinite is really bad.

[@archerassassin8]

Aye of Reach I don’t think it’s going to be bad per say. But I do think that MCC on PC is just throwing classic fans a bone and sticking with modern halo gameplay for Infinite

[@manuelkfc7916]

There's also Halo Wars 1 and 2

[@ayeofreach]

@@archerassassin8 I suppose so it just seems that everyone's forgotten that they've failed at almost everything so far.

[@Xozkov]

@@ayeofreach doubt they'll fuck it up because if they do, they're the ones who are gonna be fucked

[@masterchief7427]

Lol 343i isn't a group of dummasses

[@spacewizard9092]

Adding more dynamic functions to the maps would definitely be the best way to modify Halo in a way that could make everyone happy if done right

[@Mukz725]

Absolute madman, uploading at 9am

[@343Films]

This video is so incredibly important for Halo fans to watch. Both older fans so they can understand exactly why the new games don't quite feel right, and newer fans who might not understand why older fans take issue with 343's direction.

[@SuperiorJohn]

Great video Fav, I could listen to you argue about which type of cheese is the best and I would be entertained

[@will_of_europa]

Same

[@glassdrummer]

Honestly I thought Halo 5's multiplayer was the best out of any Halo game. Bold opinion I know. (Of course it would be even better without Spartan charge or ground pound). Sure it had it's flaws but what Halo games hasn't? I have played all the Halo games but Halo 5's multiplayer was the one I really enjoyed playing. I can understand wanting to have classic game play but I think the best way forward is for 343 to build upon what they learned from Halo 5.

[@JiimmmmmmmmmmmY]

Make sense... You have terrible opinions overall.

[@glassdrummer]

Wow

[@TheChadPad]

You're correct. Sandbox innovation is the way to go. Halo 3's equipment is a prime example. It was the best Halo multiplayer we've ever had because of its sandbox and innovation with Forge

[@guffey8]

On the sniper subject, I went from being garbage with the sniper in Halo 2 and 3 to being a headshot machine in Halo 5. It felt unearned because I knew it wasn't just me getting better.

[@Arrrash]

Amazing video Favyn. Been saying this about what the abilities do to the maps for years.

[@noahpaget3717]

Easily my favourite video of yours. It explains things about Halo that I've never though about and I think looking at the old mechanics in this way makes them appear more excited to those that may have felt that the simplicity makes them boring.

[@blueshadow2059]

Its so fucking annoying literally all of the halo influencers/ content creators want classic gameplay and yet they keep doing advanced mobility

[@kingorange7739]

Ikr

[@alandadj1298]

There’s a channel called “Shyway” who makes good arguments in favor of sprint. Check it out

[@kingorange7739]

AlanDaDJ except he’s ignorant of the actual core issue

[@blueshadow2059]

@@alandadj1298 yes i know him but how many followers does he have? how many people support his ideas? all the huge content creators preffered halo when it didnt have sprint such as penguinz and many more that i cant be bothered to name. And yes he does make good arguments for it but sprint is still unnecessary for halo Think about it the only reason halo ever had sprint was to fit in and expand halos community but all it did was make what halo offered worse intern made the game decreased the population instead of increasing it And i have looked at multiple poles and all of them ive seen have atleast 60 percent for classic movement

[@SaltyKoalaBear]

@7:33 When players say "I love the new abilities we just need better maps" Those players are not technically wrong, that's the disgusting thing. The new abilities change Halo's Identity SO much that if they were TRULY 100% accommodated for in map design, then the maps and game-types would be so drastically different, you and I wouldn't even recognize them as Halo maps/gametypes. The issue is that the dev's changed the game so much, they created something brand new. Then, being tied to Halo's identity due to player expectation, they designed the maps to accommodate both the new mechanics and the old halo style, creating a half in half out lukewarm pile of crap. When you actually design for Halo 5's mechanics you will first and foremost have to eliminate "slayer" as game-mode. As H5's mechanics make it lean more towards a squad-objective based shooter rather then an arena-TDM based shooter. The maps will follow suit in that manner, as you will no longer have to worry about slayer whilst designing. What 343i did was design a squad-objective shooter and then try to make Halo arena-tdm shooter maps for it. An absolute joke.

[@wilsthelimit]

Remember when 343 had an event where we could play multiplayer without enhanced mobility in Halo 5

[@James-sw9vm]

It's there now! H3 Classic playlist with h3 forged maps give it a go! Competitive playlist as well

[@wilsthelimit]

James Cussons oh Hallelujah

[@syxnrgy7103]

@Favyn I think you could add a sixth mechanic which is game rules. The bounds of which the other mechanics can operate within the context of the game simulation. This encompasses physics like the gravity & momentum, the damage & health, respawning etc. 1. Players, Sandbox, Environment, AI, Objectives are all affected by physics. 2. Players, Sandbox, AI are all affected by health & damage system. 3. Players, Sandbox, AI, Objective are all affected by the respawning system.

[@Chrisspru]

simplicity may be the wrong word for halos future. intuitiveness and consistency are better descriptors in my opinion.

[@thelvadam2884]

^

[@deriznohappehquite]

Fractal mind simplicity is a perfect word. Simplicity is gold in game design.

[@Chrisspru]

@@deriznohappehquite but not too simple. something should be as simple as it can be, but not more. otherwise it doesn't work. The goal of simplicity can hamper developement, as even fitting additions can be seen as to complex. a story does not need to be simple, but intuitive and consistent.

[@gasmaskguys4965]

Dude I hope more people hear of your content man, also hope to hear of another group podcast with the others xD

[@codyberry5689]

Can someone please send this dudes videos to 343 or better yet let him work for them?

[@eliarevalo]

Cody Berry cool, they will put this in the good idea jar at 343. Like where all of Ringo Star’s ideas went when he suggested stuff.

[@SHOBHITAUSHESH]

I'm a game designer and I fundamentally disagree with your core premise and arguments. The ones that are well founded are ultimately extremely subjective and the rest are rooted in fallacious assumptions. However, you put your points across really well and I enjoyed listening to your side of the argument.

[@FavynTube]

Please feel free to explain. Thanks for watching!

[@SHOBHITAUSHESH]

@@FavynTube Video was really engaging and well made so it was my pleasure! Hope you enjoy walls of text ;) Player Experience is king. While Gameplay always trumps everything, the intended experience defines the direction of the gameplay mechanics. In Halo 4 -IIRC - the direction was set to ensure the Spartans move and feel like the 7' Tanks that they are (There is a spicy quote about it that I'll link if I can locate it). This started the lore-friendly (Arguably) gameplay trends of "faster" and more empowered Spartan gameplay. 343i is rather lore focused and was set on delivering an experience that made you feel like a 'badass Spartan' much like in the books and heck even the in-game lore. Now, I recall in one of your earlier videos you outright dismiss this argument, however Lore or rather 'Feel' guides the designers (If they're working off established lore...something Halo has a shitload of) in crafting authentic gameplay. This gameplay is meant to provide a specific experience. This is esoteric as fuck...but it establishes a baseline. Why can't my Spartan run full tilt and be a mobile F-16 on legs? He/she is a super-soldier right? I think you get the gist. The other goal is Player Empowerment. It's tied to the point above but it takes into account the thousands (I argue the majority) of players who are indifferent to Halo lore or are new to it all. From that perspective it's about making the player feel like a powerful, peak-human-in-bleeding-edge-armor supersoldier. This 'feel' is key and bleeds into all aspects of the game. Mind you, empowering the player is contextual to a genre and the premise of every game...it doesn't always make sense to let the player be an OP badass in every game (Horror titles for example). The above is a long-winded way of saying that they wanted the Player to feel powerful, mobile and hard-hitting. Key word - 'Feel'. Now it may seem that 'Feel' is subjective, but in a moment to moment basis...the Player's perception is of greater control and agency "I wish I could sprint" - sub-conscious question as your move towards a firefight "Grenade!..straaafe!" - the voice in your head "oof!" - as you miss a ledge The Spartan abilities turn these sub-conscious flinches into reality. If you were to conduct an study with a decent sample size and query the subjects on key points on how they felt regarding mobility and empowerment - you'd understand that 343i has been very successful, inspite of online opinion. The abilities bridge the gap between Player Skill and Player Intent to a relatively well balanced degree. Your base argument dismisses an essential part of Halo4/5's design DNA. Now you are free to disagree with the design goals from the get-go, and we can debate whether they should've made Sandbox innovations or Base mechanical innovations...but if you're comparing Legacy Halo to 343i Halo, you need to account for the above. Now this brings me to my second point - In a video, you proved that it was simply a matter of perception. Halo1/2/3 base movement is as fast/faster than Halo 5's sprinting. Your inference - Sprinting is redundant and in-fact retroactively harms the experience. This is a fundamentally flawed argument because you're comparing base movement from say Halo 3 with the Sprinting in Halo 5. The problem with using this as a basis for further debate is that no single mechanic exists in a vacuum - it is part of a system. It's reductive reasoning and inherently flawed because Halo 5's sprint is part of it's own specific sandbox and movement mechanics. Enhanced Mobility isn't purely about getting to places quicker or easier, it also is designed for fluid, chain of movements that complement your core Halo combat experience - Sprint to bash, clamber up to ground pound...or take a shot in mid-air. It's Enhanced because it allows the Player to do more, limited more by imagination and less by creativity. Why Sprint and Guns down? It - along with the other abilities - add to the tactical layer. Simply put, it allows more room for second-to-second decision-making...pre, during and post an engagement...and the kicker? It DOESN'T negatively impact the Halo trinity - GUNS/MELEE/GRENADES. In cherry picked situations it's easy to prove - "My gun was down and I got ambushed". Absolutely fair....you paid for a choice you consciously made. The Motion Tracker is an oft-forgotten aspect of Halo that specifically exists to aid the player in making such choices. Spartan Abilities weren't there just to solve a problem, they were added to augment and complement the Holy Halo Trinity(TM) In any Halo engagement - you shoot, jump to evade, frag or melee...based on your health status and skill. All the Spartan abilities are very cleverly layered on top of it this uniquely Halo experience. I argue that they switch up the experience *just* enough to keep it fresh. As a professional, I am truly impressed by how well the abilities complement the core experience, and I can assure this would've been a massive pain in the ass Lastly, the biggest flaw I notice with your argument is the assumption that "Everything is changed per Spartan abilities" and this can somehow limit designers. You're right, to a degree...but you're also way off. Halo 5's movesets are a designer's dream come true - it allows a consistent ruleset that the entire community can quickly grasp. This lets us go off and quickly start coming up with maps that explore the NEW player centric sandbox. It's the art team IMO who would've been pissed. Secondly, yes...the maps do indeed change and this change ripples through the entire game but not to the degree you're assuming and it certainly isn't inherently a 'Bad' change. Larger, more vertical maps riddled with CQB spaces are entirely possible due to the versatility of core Halo gameplay...augmented with Spartan Abilities. I'd like to close by saying that I completely agree with one critical point you make - Sandbox innovation. I feel that Halo 5's changes should stay as is, they're enough. The next changes should be about how the Player interacts with the game world, the AI and the weapons. This is an overlooked aspect of Halo - that made it shine IMO - and 343i really dropped the ball with it. Thanks for your time and engaging constructively. Cheers - S

[@zachb1706]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/q2e8lYOIrrxjeqM

[@TyderiaOfficial]

I FINALLY convinced my friends to play MCC with me. They refuse to play Slayer on anything but Halo 4 because the old ones don't have sprint. uuuughghghhghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[@JOHNsotiriadis98]

So sad

[@TheRealLazyEntrepreneur]

You need to not just tell them why it hurts Halo,but how it would benefit from not having it- After i showed my friends Fav's video on the benefits of a no sprint Halo and they liked it,but what drove it home the most was the fact Doom and Doom Eternal do not have it. Alternatively really we need to just adjust the FOV. Going from 70-100 feels faster,but really isn't.Also get them to play Mythic Rumble...thats where i hope we are heading.

[@spartanmagnus9176]

Fav you are correct about everything. Spartan abilities didn't help halo and I think that you understand how halo didn't need these features. Reach already introduced abilities that were a big success by we changed it which made halo fail.

[@tylarjones9281]

Halo struggles to evolve because it evolved the combat of fps and all the sequels cannot live up to CE.

[@SA-px9dz]

Tylar Jones I think h2 was better

[@esparzaesparza1002]

@Phillip hanna halo 3 is the worst one in the trilogy

[@yaminotenshi4294]

I've watched a few of your videos this evening, and I must say, your channel is impossibly underrated. I am so glad that I got one of your videos in my recommended feed. Keep up the great work!

[@Onxide]

I couldn't care less of it's classic or not, as long as it's balanced and fun. I've had just as much fun in Halo 5 as I did in Halo 3

[@SchmitzCinemaStudies]

You’ve earned yourself a new subscriber with this video, though I’m curious how you fit Halo 3’s equipment into your unchanging original gameplay. Because the equipment was a new gameplay mechanic that added a new wrinkle to the shooting-melee-grenades combat triangle.