Why "Spartan Abilities” failed in Halo 5 and what infinite can learn from its mistakes

[@Hokiebird428]

10:51 Ding ding ding ding ding! We have a winner folks! In Halo, you always had your gun up and ready for a fight, and during that fight, you could simultaneously move, jump, and throw grenades. This is the core mechanic that new-Halo has decided to abandon completely, in favor of copying dying fads from other games. Because remember, “We hired people who hated Halo because of X.” Also LNG, I appreciate you not throwing your voice into ear splitting levels of sqeakiness this time. Keep working on keeping that under control.

[@ScorpioVlll]

Hokiebird428 I mean you can always have your weapon ready around corners, even a noob knows this.

[@metalphoenix4244]

The problem with that Nick Ormsby is that it essentially brings the gameplay to a halt due to the fact that u have to have your weapon ready round the corner instead of at all times.

[@metalphoenix4244]

LightandDarkmdness02-Lets break down your argument 1.But "enhanced mobility adds a lot of depth to the game" false enhanced mobility gives the illusion of complexity. Halo's game design have always been deep the depth came from the multitude of ways u can interact with it's sandbox kzbin.info/www/bejne/nXuUlHSolsR2qKM 2."I just don't think old Halo would work in sometime like Halo 5" correct because the halo core gameplay formula have been replaced with something that fits enhanced mobility.3."the Halo 3 anniversary style kind of demonstrates that. It's slow, clunky, and everything feels really weird"-Because u r not used it weirdness is a feeling that people get when they experience something that is different 4."If Halo never changes or evolves than the franchise is dead in my opinion. Following trends isn't even a bad thing"-Have u seen the current state of series? the series is already dying because it lost what made it unique also the halo series was known as a trend creator never a trend follower. Also u can evolve the franchise without changing it's formula kzbin.info/www/bejne/j6uceHRspLmKirs.Also saying that enhanced mobility should be added n Halo because it works in other fps games like COD is like saying u should add ketchup to your ice cream because it works fine with a cheese burger.

[@nacen9339]

These are all valid points. But what you're missing here is sandbox. It may add so called "depth" but the new mobility is a real crutch for designing weapons and maps. Even the lead sandbox designer says the enhanced mobility makes everything harder to balance and maps harder to design. Because A: Either this weapon has too much magnetism because sprint and thrust. Or B: The map designer has to limit map freedom because someone might thrust and clamber outside the map. You could argue that Halo is better with enhanced mobility gameplay. But one of the core elements of Halo was the diverse sandbox. Which enhanced mobility makes it much harder to work around considering each weapon has to feel unique and balanced at the same time, which classic Halo really pulled off.

[@fuzzygrenade2274]

I think I've found a way. If you guys own the game and have a friend you should try this out. Set sprint to false. Set clamber to false. Keep all the thruster abilities. You'll need to find a classic map, the one I like is Chill Out by JoeDannyMan but if you have one that hasn't been rescaled for H5 then you could use that. With no sprint your opponent can' leave a fight completely, but the thruster allows them to break light of sight. If you have a grenade or are close enough they'll still be were you saw them, not haft way across the map. No clamber puts the skill back in jumping. And the thruster abilities now speed up what is already been in Halo

[@thatguywithemail1431]

"Halo Infinite is right around the Corner." *2 Years Later*

[@rayadictocfm374]

2021 hahaha :v

[@gooseking2780]

YAAaaay................ Fuck.

[@dsdy1205]

better delayed than bad

[@limonbattery]

@@dsdy1205 How about delayed *and* bad?

[@dsdy1205]

@@limonbattery hope not

[@TimeToMine830]

"You can't have Sprint in one map and not have it in another" And that's why in Halo Reach Spartan abilities were a Sandbox item because you could make it so that Sprint wasn't in one map while it is in another. This is how some maps could be designed to utilize things like the jetpack. Or you could have a very cramped map where you turn off the class with sprint and don't have any sprint pickups. This is why I loved halo reach custom games, because of all the options you had. The multiplayer was also very fun, it switched things up and still felt like Halo.

[@dragonusmolamola4140]

Yes, Mr Carrot-Cake I whole-heartedly agree

[@dragonking4960]

Main reason why reach is my personal favorite, along with the stunning campaign.

[@simshadows]

Plus since you have a bigger radar you rarely enter a fight will sprinting, unless you get ambushed or you surprise your opponent in there back while fighting. Also running makes a lot of noise and you can hear someone running near you.

[@Neo-Bladewing]

Though to be fair, you can disable sprint, ADS, and armor abilities in Halo 5's custom games. The sheer versatility of custom games options in Halo 5 is why I feel it has the best multiplayer component in the series - you can just emulate any of the other Halos while also having access to the most powerful Forge tool in the series by far.

[@Wylyth-nr3hq]

does Halo 5 also have matchmaking playlists that take advantage of this fact, like the Anniversary playlists in Halo Reach?

[@iunnor]

I always thought of sprint and clamber as being an illusion of mobility. You feel like you’re doing more and moving faster, but you’re actually not due to the maps being more spread out to compensate.

[@MrNotSpecified01]

iunnor That's like saying that driving a sports car in a racetrack is an illusion of driving fast because the racetrack is bigger to compensate for the speed.

[@SikhiArt]

Imagine if all cars on the race track moved at the same speed, and the map was huge. It would most definitely feel like an illusion of speed. The feeling of Speed is relative to the surroundings. On a regular race track, everyone does not move at the same speed as you. You are competing against other drivers who maybe slower or faster than you, depending on their ability. So speed feels fast or slow according to how you perform vs others. In Halo 5, all players move at the same speed, and the map is made bigger to accommodate for this. So the game overall feels the same except the pacing is now out of whack since you cannot shoot all the time and are stuck in movement animations, and the guns have to be balanced differently so they feel out of whack.

[@lettuceprime4922]

MrNotSpecified - I'm not picking up my groceries faster if route 30 gets replaced with a fucking racetrack. The sports car's speed is useless if the distance is longer too.

[@warmpond]

It was proven that the sprint in halo 5 is no faster than the regular walking speed in halo 2

[@odstkefro3343]

@@warmpond agreed. In H5 you move slower so sprinting is as fast as moving in H2. Your basically more of a marine in H5 than a super soldier.

[@calicospartan4251]

A reason why I like classic movement is because the combat always seems fair and rewards smart thinking. Whether it is having better gunskill, strafing, positioning, or overall awareness there are know fight delaying abilities or insta-kills in the core classic gameplay.

[@spiguy]

"always SEEMS fair and rewards smart thinking"

[@dogmilk-el3rc]

Calico Spartan please refrase to me the part where you said "know gameplay delaying abilities or intakills on the core gameplay" because i don't know if you are talking about clasic or new gameplay

[@calicospartan4251]

I was talking about thruster packs and being able to sprint away from gunfights. By "insta-kills" I meant spartan charge and groundpound.

[@dogmilk-el3rc]

Calico Spartan oooo okay so you were talking about the impredectibility of the power rangers abilities oh i feell you bro

[@zipzapzoom111]

Calico Spartan right. the current state of player mobility takes a lot of strategy out of the game IMO. you can get away with making a dumb play or running head first straight into a death trap like an idiot Leroy Jenkins style because you can zip, zap, zoom and be outta there, where in the earlier games you wouldn't even try to pull that off because you are immediately dead to rights, no way out with more classical player mobility

[@EvilParagon2]

They reduced jump height for this shit. How do you feel more like a super soldier when you can't even launch over a 6' person in a single jump?

[@bigdaddybuttmaster69]

So what, you expect to jump that high even if there is a fucking weight limit to your armor u stupid or are you high?

[@monkeyxpwner]

Erik Ross the armor enhances the users strength and speed by over 5x. They’re not even really moving, the armor reads their neural impulses and moves for them. So basically, yeah they should be able to fucking jump at LEAST 10 feet in the air

[@forasago]

@@bigdaddybuttmaster69 Forget about this lore shit and think GAMEPLAY.

[@TheRealLazyEntrepreneur]

@@forasago Correct. Sure a super soldier can sprint,but it breaks the gameplay so..goodbye!

[@ic4192]

Daniel Quirant That’s not even lore. He’s an idiot. Mjolnir armor’s enhancements are absolutely insane in lore, with some spartans being capable of running as fast as cars. On top of that, Spartans are so incredibly strong themselves it isn’t funny. If I’m not mistaken, the Spartan-III Olivia who was just kitted out in SPI armor(much less powerful than mjolnir in terms of physical strength) was able to jump 20-30 feet into the air to grab a sentinel and destroy it with her bare hands.

[@LateNightHalo]

I’m completely blown away by how positive and healthy the dialogue you guys are having in this comment section is! Even fans of the Spartan abilities are able to admit they see the points I’m trying to demonstrate. Keep up the good work guys!! 👍

[@isaiahhuff3438]

Well I think most people agree with this is that you don't kinda make people of other views feel dumb and change what they like about halo gameplay (or anything else in halo). I agree with you most of your points in this video, but H2A multiplayer is best for since a majority of classic and modern fans seem to enjoy it equally. Hell I have a friend who hates classic halo gameplay but he loves H2A gameplay. But anyways keep up the good work and at least you didn't say the I word that everyone seems to use.

[@gruntes11isttt]

Matt K the x-ray thing was already a thing in halo 4 people hated it since it felt way to cheap. When some one would use it every one heard it and the motion tracker did a radius wave thing as well. There was also perk that made you look like an ally when someone used it. The perk system would have to be an equipment that people could pickup not spawn with or people are not going like them at all. Even as equipment I could see people liking them or dislikeing

[@Nick_792]

LateNightGaming Hey are you going to make more of those halo campaign parody vids? They're hilarious!

[@shadowlee02]

You're full of it. You can't sprint in combat, getting shot stops you so there goes that argument. The only homing weapons are the Promethean weapons and it was like that for uniqueness and flood origins not cause of sprint (Halo 4 says hello) Halo 5 has no more or less cover than past halos. There goes that argument. The only thing you're correct on is maps scales slightly bigger to accommodate clamber and thruster. Halo still have grav lifts even the remake maps. Halo 5 still can crouch jump. Infact in one of those videos that shows the comparison, you were able to crouch jump up there. You're over rating sprint and killing the argument of other "new" Halo haters. You say battles are too slow while.ive heard others say it's too fast. You're argument is full of it.

[@henrystewartiii4690]

You make little to no sense. Soley telling us how YOU play the game. Like your artstyle videos and agree with you there, but this is so bias.

[@koskk_]

Personally, I feel that from a player and (non game-mechanic) game-play perspective, the enhanced mobility removed from the "power fantasy." (I'm going to try and word this the best that I can.) You're a kick-ass augmented soldier, yeah. But the covenant (and flood) were threatening the existence of humanity. And you, Spartan-117, are here to save the day; save humanity from extinction. Hell, in H3 (I think) a couple Marines are like "maybe we actually have a chance at winning" after seeing you (S-117). That's like the biggest power trip. You're basically winning the war. Virtually single handedly. (rip Johnson). Add the fact that the movements are what you'd expect from a normal military fps; yet you see all the other regular servicemen and ODSTs, who move in generally the same way you do, barely make a dent or leave a scratch on the covenant or the flood. The fact that the levels/enemies could be hard but you still beat them is incredibly satisfying. You see the fact that you're the awesome badass w/ the shiny armor who's bigger and better than everyone else. All because you're that awesome. Not because you have special super powers (armor abilities). I know the S-IIs have augmentation that makes them faster and stronger (and more durable) but the point is, you feel that strength and power through the results of a challenging level/set of enemies. On a side note; learning to shoot accurately while jumping/moving around was hard. Being the "cool friend" that had the best accuracy while on a launch pad, or jumping off a ledge, or running from one side of the room to another was always the best feeling.

[@gruntes11isttt]

I have to agree with you on so many levels, seeing the Marines look up to you was amazing. That one cutscene in h3 when the group of marines see that a spartan was at crows nest and they get all excited even the one with bandages over his eyes was thrilled, just to hear that the spartan was.

[@brycevo]

I love the subtle ways bungie made you feel bad ass with the Marine dialogue. I met ODST Mickey (Alan Tudyk, who was a huge Halo fan) and ,while he hated sounding like a wimpy Marine, he loved the feeling of being a super soldier as the Chief.

[@slvrcobra1337]

Meanwhile, Halo 5 removes Marines entirely and makes it to where you're surrounded by three super powered clones of yourself at all times, completely vaporizing the power fantasy and pissing on its ashes :)

[@bigroaststyrone8135]

Wait, so how does sprinting, no, literally running, decrease from the power fantasy that Bungie set up in Halos 1-3?

[@koskk_]

Gangr3n3 Sorry this got so long winded. I'm tired and my brain automatically goes into essay mode when tired: In H1-3 you already moved faster than all other UNSC personnel; maybe not exponentially faster, but it was still significantly faster. you were running. It's different from sprinting. (You run a marathon and sprint a 200m race. You don't sprint a marathon and run a 200m race.) In addition, as LNG stated in the video, the sprint mechanic removed your ability to shoot while in motion. Basing on reality, shooting (accurately) while sprinting is damn near impossible; you have to stop, aim, and then shoot. It's such a benign action that's 100% "ordinary human." Having a running function that shows you that you're moving faster than everyone else already gives you that subconscious feeling of satisfaction and pride; you're the fastest there. Then add being able to shoot to that. That just elevates your "I'm the hero" factor. And, as I stated in my original comment, being the most accurate shot while running from one end of the level to the other or while using a launch pad added further proof to your greater ability over everyone else. Everyone can be a good shot of they stop to aim. Hell, maybe the random dude at your side is more accurate than you are. But maybe you're the best shot when both of you are running and gunning. What good is his accuracy while pinned by fire versus your accuracy while running to more secure cover (or to a more strategic position)?

[@pikmin8129]

I also feel that the worst example of the A.I. being negativity affected was the hunters i hate fighting them now because there is no effective strategy you just pump bullets into them and thats not fun

[@4realm8rusirius]

Pikmin812 regular hunters are literally more powerful than their boss versions (except for Mythic ones)

[@pikmin8129]

4real m8 r u sirius Im talk about the halo 5 hunters as a whole, i loved fighting them in halo 3 because i could be so creative in the way i fought them.

[@Jockster109]

In halo 3, you could get behind a hunter and slash it with a sword, or just throw grenades at it until it collapses. They died to tanks too. In Halo 5, none of those things do more than slightly dsmage hunters on normal difficulty. They are mega bullet sponges with homing missiles and rocket launchers. It's so annoying.

[@GraveUypo]

yeah, hunters in halo 5 are the worst. i dunno who designed them, but they must have been high. there's absolutely NOTHING fun about fighting them. making grenades bounce off their armor is the stupidest idea i've ever seen. and that new fast projectile is also retarded.

[@valen9835]

CE's hunters are better than them, and they can die in one hit from precision weapons

[@spooky_4624]

“Right Around the corner” he said 😐😭😭😭😭😭🤣🤣

[@face7824]

I find it weird that there’s not a comment so here.

[@Digi-Darty77]

2020

[@RiversInTheSky.]

I laughed when watching this s year later

[@duck8206]

That is what I thought as I watched this lmao

[@GalironRunner]

to be fair with halo5 being as meh halo 6 likely got a delay then theres it seeming to be halo infinity now so thats a big change in direction as well

[@JixxBlixxGaming]

This really opened my eyes to the argument of why players don't like Sprint, and I can see that more clearly now. It's not that Sprint itself is the mechanic that's bad though. It's the implementation. And that can apply to the spartan abilities too, I think. The Spartan abilities are a great idea that emphasizes what a spartan can do, but the implementation is definitely what ruined a lot of the gameplay. I mentioned this on a different video, but when I played the Halo Online Eldewrito mod for the first time, I realized the importance of the man cannons, the gravity lifts, all of that. The spartan abilities replaced them which I think was actually a horrible gameplay decision. I bet if 343i looked harder, they could have both. Man cannons were a core aspect of classic halo, and replacing them with sprint did nothing but actually ruin it. Man cannons were more effective at map traversal than sprint was. Like mentioned in the video, it just causes this start/pause kind of rhythm to the gameplay. I feel like an easy fix (Not a perfect one, mind you) would be to take away *unlimited* and revert it to match Halo Reach's Sprint - you could only sprint for a short time, which means you have to use it only when you need it. That makes it more utility than what it is now. The spartan abilities, I would like to see stay, as thematically they do work, but if 343i would be unable to implement them better, I would not be sad to see them be removed as well.

[@moonlighshinobi]

Ya I'm running thru the MC collection and every room. Every area is just like fuck man anit no rest for the wicked. Alright let's do this. Where halo 5 and even 4 was like your just trudging along and bam there they are and your like oh hey it's time for a fight cool. Welp time to get trudging again wonder when I'll be jumped next.

[@dud5606]

Id rather not have them at all tbh.

[@iCore7Gaming]

How else would you implement sprint

[@odstkefro3343]

@@iCore7Gaming have it as a variable trait in multiplayer options, simple. Toggle on/off sprint in any game mode like h5. Although 343 got rid of vehicles and implemented enhanced mobility which made it a futuristic CoD game. Hell infinite warfare and h5 are very alike, put in sprint, ditch the warthog.

[@odstkefro3343]

@Halo Fanatic somewhat makes sense. I dunno I think I would prefer 110-120

[@TheVengefulVadam]

Another reason why I dislike the spartan abilities myself is because they don't punish the player for bad positioning and jumping. You can sprint away from a gunfight,.You can thrust to the side instead of improving your strafe game. You can clamber over just about any surface instead of crouch jumping. Then you have the Ground Pound and Spartan Charge which offers insta-kill options for the Spartan off-spawn.

[@Azrael_Equinox]

Yeah I said this on a different comment

[@Azrael_Equinox]

My average kill death ratio is 0.95 in halo 5 but higher in halo 3 Have a look at my comment it you want to see my opinion

[@apae225]

I think thrust supports other play styles and could reward people for being aware of their surroundings like thrusting behind a wall that you know is positioned to your right. Also, having the opportunity to counter an attack without necessarily firing back right away is a great idea. This, I believe, is one of the reasons for shields in the first place: to give just enough time to come up with a response to incoming fire. Evading or thrusting sounds like a good response, especially if you play as a team. Your teammates could take down the enemy while you got to safety.

[@arandomelite5448]

The Vengeful 'Vadam people constantly talk about punishing bad plays and risky behavior....why? Agressive plays are fun and its epic thrust ninjaing or ground pounding 3 dudes. When you say straif its easy to pick up go left then right then left in a sparatic behavior, add thrust and you aggrivate the other player by a cheeky thrust headshot. I know the feeling of someone running away but that encourages you to predict where theyre running and head them off it does add skill.

[@blackmamba54321]

Keep he clamber, keep the thrusts. Everything else can go.

[@elizabethptrevenkoy2121]

I usually disagree with this point of view, because spartan abilities stack upon already established concepts evolving and changing them. However, being a primarily PC player, if for some godforsaken reason Bethesda added sprint to Quake Champions I would be pissed. It would be entirely unnecessary; intrinsically changing the game. So while i still wont say i agree with the totality of your complaints it I sympathize with you when your entire game has to change to complement these abilities changing the identity of the game when the formula still worked and no one asked for it. Halo 1 - 3 had specific play style Ive heard and personally called "Classic Halo" Starting with Halo Reach, this changed, however reach making the abilities optional presented the community these alternatives to movement. Bungie still got hate for the abilities yet avoided what 343 is going through currently with eh release of Halo 4 and Halo 5, because Bungie made these movement alternatives optional while 343 made them standard. The most likely outcome is 343 either ignoring the fan-base and continuing with their version of halo 5 movement or at best reverting to a Halo Reach style of abilities. Most likely 343 will not drop the abilities entirely.

[@LateNightHalo]

Very good comment. Its like adding sprint/clamber to Counter Strike. It would fundamentally alter the gameplay in ways that the legacy elements of the sandbox wont support.. this will create contradictions and pacing issues.

[@Azrael_Equinox]

They are going to keep the abilities sadly, there is nothing we can do about it

[@Azrael_Equinox]

They are going to keep the abilities sadly, there is nothing we can do about it

[@MasterJazz09]

Elizabeth Ptrevenkoy bungie wanted ability and sprint etc which is why they went on to make destiny

[@justarandomperson3700]

MasterJazz09 That is not why at all. They were tired of making halo games, so they wanted to make something new.

[@MythicTyrant]

Well articulated points made all around! Enjoyed the video, my friend. Awesome content as always! :-)

[@wuvvbernardo9353]

Wow it's you Mythic Tyrant ☺

[@ineednochannelyoutube5384]

Halo was a game of the arena era, and the reason its slow compared to quake is because it was designed for consols with mutchbmore imprecise and sluggish aiming. At the core Halo played more like Doom than CoD, it was just slow motion doom. If you look at nu Doom, yourealize that more mobility is good. Doublejump and ledgeclimbing added to the formula. But sprint is a no go. You are always at top speed. Similarly in Halo you should also always be at full speed, it should just be lower. Halos movement was not expanded, it was ruined by devs that didnt understand it.

[@jackcolson4745]

No they understood the mechanics alright, the real shit pile of a problem is they ignored classic Halo gameplay because they believed older mechanics in a new game would not sell or "keep up with trends"

[@ash_yt0]

A huge issue which really drags the game down is the enhanced mobility takes the tension away from your positional awareness. When you can just sprint away from danger, there are no "No Mans Land" areas in the map. And when these danger zones are absent, then movement becomes arbitrary and thoughtless. And this is just one of the negative consequences. Faster movement means harder tracking with your aim, which means the ADS becomes necessary, but having to use ADS all the time slows down the gameplay... so you end up at square one again (more like square zero because shooting small targets running away is frustrating) A key part of what made Halo fun was all the little calculations you do in your head. The path you choose to take through a map was an interesting decision because you had a mental picture of which routes are safe/slow or fast/dangerous and the amount of shield you have in order to survive the distance of that route was also constantly fluctuating depending on how many shots you've taken at a given moment. It was worth investing thought into your angle of attack because if you chose a superior angle you improved your chances of victory. All of this is stripped away when you can just sprint out of danger... and rather than making the game more intense, it has made the game brainless. The original idea of Sprint is that it adds a trade-off... choose more mobility in exchange for weapon-readiness... but the balance is skewed because sprinting is too useful to not use and becomes a no-brainer. And it strips away the most important mental tradeoff of all in the process, positioning. The net result is simply a less entertaining game that lacks the depth of the original Halos that kept people coming back again and again. Games like Overwatch have shown that you don't need Sprint or ADS. Some characters have high mobility moves in Overwatch of course... but for every one of them, there are also characters who can punish bad positioning instantly (like Roadhog's hook or potential Ultimates.) There isn't much in Halo to punish poor positioning in that way.

[@kovenmaitreya7184]

I completely disagree with this analysis. Everything you mention is still part of the game. You are tremendously punished for not putting thought into what routes and positions you choose to take. The higher mobility simply makes it more nuanced and complex (as opposed to brainless like you seem to think). I can routinely get double digit kills and very few deaths in games when playing against people even slightly less skilled than me because I can constantly position myself better than them and choose better routes of travel. It still requires just as much thought (more so, imo, because everyone has more options of movement) in order to traverse a map safely. There are still lots of "No mans land" areas that get you killed very quickly if you're in them. People who have thoughtless movement in the game will die quicker and more often. As for aiming, it's only more frustrating to shoot small fast moving targets because its more CHALLENGING. I actually like when things become more complex and challenging, though so its no issue for me. It also makes me believe that this game builds a greater level of skill than the older ones did. Whenever I go back to play the multiplayer of the older halo games now, it's extremely easy for me in comparison. I would say that this game doesn't have the same charm and character the older ones had (and maybe more sterile map environments)... but I absolutely believe that it has more depth and nuance in terms of gameplay. It seems to me that most fans don't readily pick up on that nuance because of their dislike of everything else about the game.

[@ash_yt0]

By "No-man's Lands" I don't mean static places on the map, like the middle of Coagulation in Halo 2. I'm talking about how any spot on any map can be a no-man's land. Simply standing too far away from a bit of cover could spell your death because you lack the ability to quickly sprint or thrust behind it. As an analogy, it's like having to constantly bear in mind "stopping time/distance" while driving a car because you can't just instantaneously brake before danger. Same principle here, you have to constantly bear in mind an exit route's distance because you don't have the option to just quickly break line of sight with a thrust/sprint. Also, they've increased the auto-aim to compensate, so it's not any more challenging really. Shooting at people who are not engaged in combat (because they're desperately sprinting to safety) is not very fun. Returning fire was always a viable way to survive being shot at (and you might even comeback from a losing duel to win which is super satisfying) but being able to sprint makes it too tempting to just run away which leads to some bland gameplay. The Spartan abilities are flashy but dig beneath the surface and they don't really make you feel powerful. Want a decent running speed? Well now you can't shoot. Want to shoot at people? Well you're stuck at a slow movement speed. Want to chase down and kill someone who's fleeing? Well you can't do both at the same time, and you'll probably start getting shot by their teammate if you lower your gun to sprint. This gives the combat too many sharp peaks and troughs in its pacing IMO in addition to killing the power fantasy (even though it's entire point is to make you feel like a Super soldier.) The essence of Halo is simplicity. Bear in mind this was a game that rose to prominence by doing away with many FPS tropes of its day (like it reduced your personal arsenal to 2-at-a-time.) This streamlining made the game MORE interesting and fun as a result, not less. And there is a lesson to be learned here for 343i. I don't want 343 to just be uninventive and make Halo 2 again, but I want them to ignore current FPS fads and instead really study what made Halo 2 tick, harvest that core, and then build upon that solid foundation with features that compliment it. Shoehorning features from CoD is not the way you create a hit game, especially when the fans want Halo, not CoD.

[@ash_yt0]

Getting to the core of why these abilities were added: The Power fantasy. You don't need sprint or thrust to make the Chief feel like a badass (in fact many of these abilities inhibit your movement... like clamber has to play an animation when previously you could just crouch jump and still be shooting at people.) To actually increase your power, you can just increase the base movement speed, add some clunking sound effects to his boots to make him feel weighty and powerful. Maybe even increase his jump height. Let him fall to the ground with a thud etc. If there's no sprint also, you don't need maps that wind up dwarfing the chief, you can make him an imposing presence in the space, which further adds to his monstrousness. I think folks need to disentangle this notion that feeling like a badass requires these specific abilities. They don't. Most of the power fantasy comes from art, animation, sound, the sandbox etc. Having the chief loom over cowering grunts, with dual SMGs which echo and crackle through the forerunner halls as the neon-blood spurts out of their flesh... That's all you need for a power fantasy in a Halo game.

[@kovenmaitreya7184]

I understand your arguments but completely disagree with them. I'll just leave it at that.

[@LateNightHalo]

Koven Maitreya really? “I assume most fans just don’t notice the subtle detail” No, we don’t like the bland shooter that just plays like a bog-standard modern shooter instead of a normal halo game

[@pikmin8129]

I dont get why people say these abilities makes them feel more powerful. I felt powerful in halo 3 when i made the right decisions and out smarted my enemies. For example in in halo 3 when im in a warthog i give my marines fuel rod guns to obliterate the covenant as i came by. That just makes me feel awsome because i overcame the challenge by myself. But in halo 5 i do feel powerful but it feels artificial like i didnt do that on my own. It feels like steroids i may be powerful but its artificial.

[@savonthedon]

Pikmin812 I'll give u the answer.. With classic halo you'd actually have to work towards feeling like a super soldier amongst everyone in the lobby butt with halo4/5 everyone gets to feel a more shallow version of the same feeling

[@bigroaststyrone8135]

Oh? bK Fangz that is interesting. Care to elaborate?

[@fontunetheteller410]

Pikmin812 false

[@pikmin8129]

FontuneTheTeller give me a reason

[@fontunetheteller410]

halo 1, 2 and 3 had the slowest and most uninteresting gameplay ever. in my opinion, i'm torn between Reach and 4 as to which one is better. I honestly am dumbfounded when people say "sprint ruined halo!!! its such a COD thing!" sprint is not a COD thing, its an FPS thing. the thing that separated halo from COD was the fact that halo is a platformer sandbox game. what good is having a platformer sandbox if you cant fucking move around freely in it?

[@noblegamer5627]

Even the Pro players of the halo community hate the new movement and spartan abilities

[@Nick_792]

noblegamer56 Someone should tell the pros who designed halo 5 right?

[@deafbyhiphop]

Ive played more competitive halo than you have slept in your life

[@Turbine_]

kek

[@Nick_792]

Deaf by Hip-Hop My question to that is: Do you even sleep?

[@deafbyhiphop]

Nick Siwak You got meme'd on

[@HaloCollective]

I will always be of the mindset of "I don't care what's in the game, as long as it's fun and plays well", but this video was definitely interesting and your points are well-made and spoken. Well done, Mr. Tatas Herbinkie. ~Tylar

[@JesuSoup]

Halo Collective - Anything and Everything Halo but it can BE EVEN MORE FUN if they took it out

[@shadosnake]

-Because all that fuel you'd use would literally bankrupt the UNSC But in all seriousness, Halo already gave you amazing mobility, you're already moving faster than a normal human just as a jog. You don't need clambering in all the other games because there's always a way to get somewhere, it gave you mental freedom to THINK about your movement and every bit of ammo, and in Halo 5, you just run forward, shoot slow baddy, or fast hard baddy, continue. No combat evolution to the opposition anymore.

[@Azrael_Equinox]

"Were it so easy"

[@shadowlee02]

ShadoSnakeGames not true, so what was different about killing a "baddy" in the past halos? Same shit. Shoot or kill by any means rather it grenade, melee, etc. Trust isn't making a difference and certainly not slowing a gun fight down.

[@anhdinhlamduc5700]

LastKing well i can shoot the elite while came close to smash through it shield or i can shoot the elite while i running backward ( in short keep the pressure when you find cover) or i could throw a base while moving close to use my AR.

[@justarandomperson3700]

Twisted monk You do jump higher. Compare normal halo 5 to the halo 3 throwback playlist once it comes back. There is a pretty noticeable difference.

[@shadowlee02]

anh dinh lam duc YOU CAN STILL DO THAT! Lol. Y'all acting like the game forces you to use Spartan abilities when it doesn't.

[@dignelberrt]

well im watching this in july of 2021, and NOW Infinite is right around the corner

[@franktidepod8724]

Halo 5 opening cutscene: _I AM SPEED_ Halo 5 gameplay: *_dial-up modem noise_*

[@basvs3906]

So nice that opening... you and your buds just slaughtering covenant like its just a regular chore... and then the Legendary difficulty gameplay starts, you get your ass handed to you and its a instant disconnect... peep peep, spartan not found.

[@airas1494]

JUST GO BACK TO THE CLASSIC MOVEMENT! Anybody remembers the golden halo triangle? THATS HOW WE NEED HALO AGAIN!

[@arandomelite5448]

Gruntsku11 Gamer not entirely though since the golden triangle requires u to be able to do any of thoes 3 things at any time and the rule was broken by bungie. One of the things that people hate about clamber is for a second you are climbing up and in all halos there is a few seconds of delay when you get in a vehicle, plus vehicles break the triangle. Also abilities (h3 pickups) did a split second throw animation, plus dual weilding was kinda breaking the triangle. We do need an extra layer i dont know what it is (bungie did pick up things/ability loadouts, 343 are doing advanced movement) but pure golden triangle probably wont work anymore

[@savonthedon]

Gruntsku11 Gamer wow not many people know about that.. It scares me that not many know of it

[@pastordonkoh7692]

Why aren't more people playing *Halo 2 Remastered*? Gives us an insight into how things would turn out. Returning to classic would not only be a disastrous business decision but it would validate Halo 5 in a very ironic way Yes, core Halo fans would probably stay on the next Halo Game if it returned to classic What would actually end up happening is the player base would plummet after a short period. Many people would go back to *Halo 5* These new games are not terrible because if Enhanced mobility amongst the core factors. Because if that was the case we'd see a lot if activity on the older games especiallyH3 and *H2A*

[@boldfacedbroom3374]

People aren't playing Halo 2 Remastered not for any fucking reason like that, but because MCC is still broken, *think*.

[@pastordonkoh7692]

Boldfacedbroom3 community is basically dead. Barely anyone on match making. Not even active KZbinrs in any significant number. I've played it multiple times You're being delusional if you genuinely believe going back to classic would rejuvenate Halo Better of on taking all that was innovative and great of Halo 5 as a basis for the next

[@MonkeysxMoo]

I just want them to make a fleshed out, full version of H2A MP. Use that multiplayer as the basis going forward, it's absolutely fantastic!

[@wet_weather_imp]

MonkeyxMoo35 Completely agree, especially the MCC edition with the art style

[@MonkeysxMoo]

The gameplay of Halo 2 with some of the cut content that'd later appear in Halo 3 (AR, Hornet, Mongoose, etc) plus *some* elements of Reach and Halo 4 (grenade indicators, preset loadouts, etc) all wrapped up in a beautiful art style reminiscent of the old Halo games, while still incorporating stuff from the new style. It's the best Halo game as far as I'm concerned. Only thing holding it back is the map count.

[@Approvedjoey117]

MonkeyxMoo35 Halo 3 😉

[@MonkeysxMoo]

No. After MCC, I'm done with Halo 3. With the update, I pray I can never play it again. H2A is what I want.

[@MonkeysxMoo]

I don't mind grenade indicators. If they're there, whatever, if they're not also whatever. I agree preset loadouts should be regulated though. BTB and maybe some of the objective games can have them.

[@pikmin8129]

I feel if sprint is a necessity then it should be a pick up like equipment in halo 3 and be used as a short boost in the base movement speed for like 3-4 seconds and you should still be able to shoot and through grenades

[@LateNightHalo]

Statistics done by pros actually show Halo 2 has faster matches, players encountering other players quicker AND more kills per minute. Halo 2 is literally a faster game than Halo 5

[@sharoncunningham2783]

LateNightGaming really halo 2 anniversary yes but I don't think about halo 2 mmm guess it was just me

[@spiguy]

LateNightGaming And does Halo 2 have button combos that give instant kills if you master them and thus, break the game as well?

[@LateNightHalo]

Kurt -051 not after the patch. Standard H2 with no button combos or glitches plays faster than H5

[@shadowlee02]

See now you're flip flop ping. Hater say Halo 5 is too fast now you're saying it's too slow? GTFOH. Adding sprint as a pick up is as stupid as making it an armor ability in reach.

[@marcwittkowski5146]

It's funny how I love the thrust, sprint and clamber (the rest I actually dislike, too), yet I always find myself agreeing with almost every point you make. Granted, I have not been a Halo player before 2014, so that may be a factor contributing to my point of view. Anyways, I don't mind you beating this dead horse, as long as you keep it interesting, as you usually do.

[@LateNightHalo]

Marc Wittkowski agreeing that issues are caused isn’t necessarily a betrayal of you enjoying it :) as I side, “some people like the power fantasy of being a super soldier and that’s ok”

[@BlaineVincentIII]

I second this person's comment about liking the added abilities, while also agreeing with many of the points you make. I think however this may have been the video that finally swayed me. The abilities should go. Either that, or 343 should find a way to improve the sandbox so that the abilities don't entirely dissolve the flow of gameplay.

[@Dalvory]

We still stop "beating this dead horse" once 343 finally remove it from the next game, and stop altering the core gameplay that differentiates Halo from other shooters.

[@Dalvory]

I still appreciate that you at least see where us who do not like the abilities are coming from.

[@grantlauzon5237]

Halo always had its ludicrous jump height to dodge shots and grenades. I love the thrusters because it gives a new axis to duck around corners or chase someone around a corner. The recharging shields in Halo always gave fight or flight strategies the winning edge. The thrusters with there own cool down timers add another layer to pvp gameplay. But it makes vehicles easier to dodge and highjack. Thrusters are also useless for dodging the incredibly accurate shots of the BR and DMR in BTB. The armor abilities and weapon balancing in H5 are great at CQB between players. Unfortunately their usefulness cannibalizes older sandbox elements while being useless at long ranges. Jumping or thrusting an extra 3.5 meters can make or break a game in the arena but when you’re being shot at from 80 meters away it loses its value.

[@jonathanschenck8154]

Player: "What's the opposite of enhanced mobility?" another guy: "the halo 5 forge controls that's what!"

[@MJRNRD]

"Halo 6 is right around the corner" *3 years ago*

[@exile9024]

i not only dislike enhanced mobility in Halo 5 but i hate sprinting ...in the first trilogy the lack of sprinting in combat encouraged pacing & precision timing it also made some enemies faster mobility and larger numbers feel kinda daunting...but Halo 5 all need to do is thruster boost out of harm's way and ground pound or let the Ai revive you.

[@glomorailey106]

Counterpoint: Jackal Snipers, Rockets, Plasma sticks, ELITE MELEEEEE, and of course... Warden Eternal. Jackals snipers in heroic or Legendary instantly down. To AI too. All die, and it's... ugh. Rockets and explosives are harder to dodge. Plasma sticks fucking kill you. No getting up. Elite melee, easy to avoid... hard to recover. Same story as Jackal snipers. Wardens... Not the case, but still a bad kind of thing to deal with, so a mulligan thrown there.

[@SkyNinja759]

My favourite part of the sprint mechanic is that when you get hit, you stagger and slow down. Basically making sprint useless for retreating or from going from cover to cover. It's like every battle is the Somme, just being bogged down to hiding behind one piece of cover with metaphorical mud coming up to your knees. Halo 5 is a perfect example of how adding more freedom can actually take away from the game.

[@KOBULT92]

"Halo 6 is right around the corner" that didn't age well.

[@aryangupta8150]

Yea mate more so now than ever

[@FakeJake5843]

Yep

[@vegafadge3174]

I think the ADS system (as in how it looks) should be used for certain weapons, like the carbine, or the hydra. The system would be for weapons dependent on aiming down sights that don’t have a scope, the carbine doesn’t have a scope so a holographic sight would make sense, and the hydra requires you to ads to lock on.

[@ricardoaleman8170]

Seeing the enemy tremble at your feet ,and civilians and other normal soldiers regaining hope just by being in your presence made me feel more like a super human soldier than crazy movement abilities does

[@iRunfastXC]

DUDE FREAKING PREACH. I didn’t understand how, with all my new mobile abilities, Halo 5 felt like the SLOWEST game I’ve ever played. You nailed it, man.

[@Azrael_Equinox]

I like the old halo gameplay more, it feels more organic for halo and it doesn't feel like sci-fi game 3254. It feels like halo I also love the halo 3 equipment over halo reach and 4's armour abilities, they fitted in halo better than them (even though I still like them). Halo 5 threw this out the window and now halo has no skill gap or holdout locations (like the sniper tower on Zanzibar). my kill death ratio is 0.95 in halo 5 but it's 2.35 in halo 3 When 343 made Spartan abilities they tried to make halo easier to play but for some players (like me) made it harder

[@sharoncunningham2783]

Shadow Viper 3112 I fucking hated equipment imo it was terrible halo 2 was better in my opinion also I don't really find the halo 5 gameplay hard it just takes time to get used to

[@Azrael_Equinox]

Well it really depends on the type of gameplay you like I loved halo 2 to death but something in halo 3 made me like it more (not necessarily the equipment) but I still liked it none the less Oh I forgot to add I didn't find halo 5 hard it was too fast paced it's just when I go to play it I get worse every time I touch it though that is more of a personal thing

[@sharoncunningham2783]

Shadow Viper 3112 true

[@II-df6dw]

The same thing happened to me, I had around a 2.7kd in reach and I dropped down to a 1.9kd in Halo 5 due to the game being more casual and noob friendly. My friends who were terrible at Reach and 3 went from 0.8kd to 1.6kd in a heartbeat and they were dying less frequently because they weren't being punished for poor positioning like in the previous installments.

[@scottyi9299]

When I think about enhanced mobility the first thing comes across my mind is doom. As a fast pace game, doom thrives on player's agility, and enemies shooting relatively slower projectile makes dodging an easy and rewarding act. This combination makes sure the fast pace and excitement of combat. However this formula can not be copied and paste into halo games since weapon design and gameplay is different. In halo you can't deal a large amount of damage in a short period of time just like switching super shotgun and ballista to instant kill enemies in doom, in combat you always have to hide behind covers to wait for shield to recharge. If 343 wants to make the pace of combat faster they have to come up with a way to reward the player stepping out of the cover. If this is not the case, halo is better in its classic state which players utilize the diversity of weapon sandbox to add some interest and creativity into gameplay.

[@themightyquinnm190]

Halo 6 won’t be influenced by my videos.... I’d say from E3, you’re wrong 😂

[@ZenithTech35]

0:42 "Right around the corner." Boy how wrong we were lol

[@UltimateDominion]

LateNightGaming+ Excellent video, you describe my frustrations with Halo 5 Exactly! easily one of your best videos yet! keep up the good work! :D

[@roddydykes7053]

1st person run and gun movement works. 3rd person tactical cover based combat works. But it’s too much a mess when these two styles start blending together, as we’ve seen from recent halos.

[@TheKingby1]

This is spot on, and does a really good job of how I feel about the whole issue but I could never put my finger on the right words

[@Jomonji]

I’m okay with sprint and clambering; these are basic abilities that every human has, not just super soldiers. Now, as for thrusters, you can get rid of those

[@madmus_meale7884]

Agreed

[@arbiter-]

Halo 5's campaign is the only one that I will never play twice. I played it once on normal and I have never wanted to play since. Clamber is nice and all, but I've hated the extra spartan abilities added in this game since day 1. You bring up a lot of good points and I tend to agree on most.

[@ilordofthegrill]

This guy is speaking exactly how I feel about the advanced movement. Thank you for putting words to my feelings.

[@awesomeawesome8350]

I love the titanfall reference. One of my favorite games lately

[@PeregrinoZensunni]

what bothers me is that it's not a discussion between fans of two different franchises to prove which one is the best. 343 basically got a game with millions of fans and turned into something else, now this other thing has fans too and there we have a fight because only one can exist. (By the way, Spartan abillities dont belong in Halo, go find you own game to be fan of)

[@mrjawline1143]

Its a civil war and classic halo gamer are winning

[@Wylie288]

Really. Then why are so many people a fan thier debut game Halo 3?

[@bluwizard3430]

I come from the future and Halo is back to the iconic art style.

[@burglerpoop9000]

I'm with you no matter what you do i love all your videos and sometimes i just turn them on cause your voice is beautiful. You always give good points too

[@brycevo]

Being a long time Halo player and a 360 era FPS fan, I tend not to use enhanced mobility. Yes, I sprint, but in most games that's been a standard gameplay feature. I often forget about the jet jump, thrusters or whatever, and thus tend not to use it. While I do somewhat like clamber (it feels more natural than seeing a tiny overhang and having to walk around it to get up) and I rely on sprint alot, I despise thrusters and boosters. It felt off. Spartans were always a walking Tank. If you can find a rocket propelled tank that can drift around, please tell me, I'll take two. My best friend (who I play Halo with alot) remarked after seeing my play style " You do know you can boost? Why don't you?" I replied "Because..., It's not Halo" he pressed the thruster button and snidely said "Yes it is. It's right here. Can't you see?" I shook my head and replied " This is the Halo brand's copy of Titanfall. That is Halo" I pointed at Reach. He grinned and was silent, That was Halo to us.

[@koskk_]

Bryce Mckenzie I'm glad I'm not the only one who forgets that some of the armor abilities are a thing while playing lol

[@bigroaststyrone8135]

Eh, but Armor abilities were objectively worse in Reach, just wanna throw that out there

[@justinrice5405]

Big Roasts Tyrone Seriously, I don't get this nostalgia for Reach. Reach introduced Armor Abilities and started the downfall.

[@CFunk99]

It's weird to me that the classic gameplay is timeless, well the new will not be, despite the extra abilities you are given.

[@Mortablunt]

There's something called Minimum Viable Product, and Halo 1 and 2, especially 1, come very close to it. You could define it as elegantce, but it's more the minimum amount of something you need to make it something worth having. Imagine a skillfully cooked slab of meat. Everything after that is just garnishes, sauces, seasonings, and covers. The meat underneath is what you're coming for.

[@cannonballdotcom8332]

“There’s no way my feedback will impact Halo 6 because it’s RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER.” -LateNightGaming 2 0 1 8

[@Ducain_Plays]

Good video LNG!

[@danieliglesias1429]

You’re irrelevant

[@TheOldest]

Got to admit Halo's mobility is a topic I've personally talked about for years, back when the original launched. My background when Halo launched was PC FPS games, Doom, Quake 3 Arena, and Unreal being my bread and butter. When Halo launched I was already 20 and those were what I had grown accustomed to and Halo way way slower than what I preferred. That being said you can clearly see it wasn't meant to have fast foot speed. Vehicle play was meant to be utilized and slower foot mobility made that more necessary and introduced elements to Fps gameplay that was never as well put together at that point. It made the game fun and was still well put together and polished. Ironically OG Halo's gameplay clearly wasn't built to play like it's lore, which was mostly fleshed out and expanded after release implied otherwise I imagine these things would be better implemented in gameplay. The really big and challenging aspect of what the new mobility system does is as of the time it was introduced Halo had long had an established gameplay loop and this was arguably too drastic a change for the long standing Halo community to accept and adopt. Bungie brought up before that they considered adding sprint back in Halo 2 but didn't and since Halo 3 mechanically was Halo 2.5 and chronologically follows immediately after the previous game they could justify adding it then either the damage had already been done to increase Halo's foot mobility to the audience with the least amount of community push back and then expand that concept further in later titles. For a franchise to stay fresh and interesting it needs to evolve or it will become stale, but be mindful of the community that got it where it is. Halo needs this kind of change it simply makes since. That being said 343 should have considered the consequences for too many changes and included classic gameplay modes to keep that part of the fanbase happy and slowly let the community grow from one to the other overtime. That and not remove split screen coop but that was stupid. In closing the new mobility is fresh and freeing to gameplay. Now it's needs serious balancing and better environments for it to be a viable addition and not a gimmick. PS crouch jumping isn't a feature it's convenient exploit that lived on over the years and not intended by design and not an argument for not having clamber. That being said clamber isn't perfect but at least makes sense.

[@LateNightHalo]

TheOldest id say it’s not “freeing” because you aren’t as able :/ you can’t firing whiling moving at max speed, can’t fire while making jumps, etc etc You have limitations that also extend to map design. Even devs have less creative freedom

[@AhoyYee]

Just take away all the abilities and leave sprint or not. Just please no more abilities.

[@bakes1324]

Joshua Adams sprint and clamber should stay and I can make a case for it if I must

[@AhoyYee]

Bakes 13 as can I

[@AhoyYee]

Clone exactly 😂👌🏽

[@bakes1324]

Clone sprint in halo 4 was trash but it's a needed mechanic. Halo 3 would've benefited from a sprint mechanic. Fucking kill me

[@AhoyYee]

Bakes 13 halo 4 didn’t run or play as well as halo 5. They fixed that problem of being boring and stupid.

[@kritheekbeemadi407]

Honestly, because Halo Infinite is sprint-confirmed (At least in campaign), 343 should give the option to have enhanced mobility in multiplayer maps, like in Reach

[@zach7]

I prefer armor abilities to spartan abilities. they were just advanced equipment with more than a single use and became more of a factor in gameplay. Also in reach they gave you premade builds so it was more accounted for by developers. I would prefer a limited armor ability pick up. make a jet pack a jump pack that has a ground pound attached to it give it limited uses but not a single use or infinitely rechargeable, maybe have a hard light shield that uses up energy like a battery and once it loses all of it you gotta pick up something else in your ability slot. A deployable auto turret that you can pick back up and move elsewhere or a man cannon that you can carry and deploy or pick back up. Things that do change gameplay are attached as abilities but don't strictly change the base mechanics. h3 equipment was at times good but was always was few and far between and most of it didn't have a great use. trip mine rarely killed, energy drain was just an annoying occasional free kill, flash bang was more annoying for everyone so it was avoided. The more useful one like grav lift and bubble shield were single use couldn't be picked back up or have multiples on you, so in multiplayer it was often taken by one person early in the match, took a while to respawn and wasn't worth going for again if it was out of the way, far better to go after a power weapon. armor abilities left a more lasting effect that added more scenarios to gameplay. I think mixing those with equipments that can be redeployed until they are destroyed and limited charges and uses on abilities that are pick ups and one default depending on the mode.

[@guy_who_games]

When you hear “I don’t want to be a Halo channel forever” in 2021

[@soundlesspeal]

where was i when halo took a turn to a more serious and edgy vibe? happily playing combat evolved

[@Comkill117]

I’m glad you pointed out how it takes the same amount of time to move around the maps but in the old ones you could still shoot and throw grenades.

[@ImGazu]

"Since Halo 6 is right around the corner!" 2 years later...

[@animatedgamer]

The talk of using external means of defeating enemies reminds of the first time you fight a Scarab in Halo 3 and how they had multiple ways of taking it down. My favorite way was using the transport hog and loading it up with Marines and having them all equipped with rocket launchers. Sure I could of gone the safe route of using the mounted homing missiles to take out the legs and didn't involve me dying because a marine launched his rocket at a ghost that was too close, but where was the fun in that?

[@RonnieBondayy]

Reach with the exception of armour lock was decent though, especially jet pack and evade

[@ZealStarMedia]

The other issue with giving the player too much power is that it now is held above strategy. In halo 2 and 3, if the enemies killed you, it’s because you didn’t come up with a good enough game plan, you didn’t think it through. In halo 5, if the enemies killed you, it’s because they were more powerful. Looking back to back between the old and new really shows where they placed their emphasis, I do think halo reach and 4 did a decent job at balancing the two, I’ve always preferred my games to rely on my skill, as opposed to my power.

[@onixmortes]

I can remember booting up Halo: Reach's beta, getting into a game with some friends and being like "WTF is this sprint? Why does my gun have bullet spread? Why did that guy go all blue and ignore my rocket (the power weapon I just fought for and won by being better with team fire and positioning). Why does this feel like Call of Duty?" I've been playing Halo game's for as long as they've been around. I played CE until Halo 2 released. I played Halo 2 until H3 released, and I played H3 until Reach. I played Reach for a few weeks. Got tired of armor lock, jet pack, and sprint. Gave 343's H4 a shot after Bungie left with the shit show known as Reach being their farewell gift. Got tired of getting into that good 'ol BR 1v1 and the other guy just sprints away if he get's one shot down, or didn't get the opening shot. Not only that, you could just get pinged by an armor ability. They even knew your exact position since they added height to the radar. You had CoD care packages, and power weapons were more or less meaningless. I saw Halo 5 as a good change of pace with the removal of a lot of CoD mechanics. But they should have just done a reset right there. They just traded one system that didn't work in Halo for another that still doesn't work. The only fun aspects of Reach, 4, and 5 were the echos of what it was to be a Halo game from the classics. Here's to hoping for a miracle and a return to roots for Halo as a whole.

[@GraveUypo]

that's funny, i absolutely hate power weapons and reach is my favorite halo in good part because you can fight back against cheap kills from those retarded no-skill weapons. it's also faster paced and less floaty, which were both always problems in previous halos to me.

[@onixmortes]

You're right, one button press whenever you want to make you immune to all damage, what counter play. I guess you missed the part of "the power weapon I just fought for and won by being better with team fire and positioning." If you lose in the fight for a power weapon because your opponent was better than you, he gets the rockets that get him a couple more kills. That's why you track when power weapons are up. Who has them, how many rockets has the enemy used. Who has the sniper. So on and so on. How do you call rockets retarded no skill weapons and justify armor lock? lol, I guess to each their own.

[@GraveUypo]

blah blah blah. you won by better RNG and spawning nearer it. it's a retarded thing that gives at least 4 free kills. and how is it a good thing to reward the winning team with a bunch more free frags? they're already fucking winning, they don't need the skill-less boost. you complain about cod a lot but the way you describe it works just like their care packages or whatever those are called when you get an advantage you're rewarded with an even bigger, cheap advantage. and i didn't even mean only the lock shield, there are other better means to counter a retarded person with a rocket launcher using armor powers. like active camo, jetpack or the best way: the decoy power. if you armor lock out of a rocket chances are you just wasted one of his ammo and someone who isn't dumb will get you again right after you deactivate it. even so, armor lock takes more skill than a fucking rocket to use, because it's reactive. use it wrong and you're dead because you'll have a grenade on your feet right as it wear off. there's no way to use a rocket wrong other than shooting your own feet. it's an instakill wide AOE weapon. wow, such skill. lock shield was annoying at first, but in truth it was only really powerful against melee attacks since it discharged the shields of your attacker from up close. in the end it was all a matter of learning to play against it. you clearly didn't get that far if you think it was that powerful. i've always hated power weapons, and i hated using them myself too. so i'd rather use them as bait and kill whoever's trying to get to them with my trusty magnum, which is my favorite weapon in reach and the one i trained the most with. i got so good with it i didn't have to fight for map control anymore because i was fine with just my spawning loadout. well, that's kind of a figure of speech, map control is always important. but i didn't need to scramble to find weapons at every respawn.

[@onixmortes]

With all due respect, I don't think you know how to play Halo very well as a team. Power weapons are placed so teams can fight over them. They encourage fighting for particular parts of the map, and work nothing like CoD care packages. Also, if you are behind and win the fight for a power weapon spawn, it can help you get back in the game with some of those easier to get kills. It requires miles more skill than spawning with armor lock and jet packs. How do you make the argument sniping requires no skill? That tends to be the pinnacle of skill in Halo. It's why Halo montages are made with the majority of clips of beautiful head shots with the sniper rifle. For example, think back to The Pit in Halo 3. A symmetrical map with rockets in the long hall, active camo in the green hall, over shield under blue bridge, sword in blue room, and a sniper rifle under towers. All the weapons directly in the middle of both teams. There are fights for these weapons, and then you track spawn times on the weapons and power ups. This leads to a healthy competitive shooter. The you have reach and the later Halo games where the spawns are uneven, CoD style care packages, jet packs, and armor lock. Whats the point in fighting for map position and controlling power weapons? It's the reason MLG dropped Halo upon the release of Reach. It wasn't competitive anymore. Just a bunch of monkeys running around with power ups every time they spawn.

[@justinrice5405]

shawn mclean This comment is full of truth. That anyone would argue bullshit like Armor Lock and Jet Packs were more fair than weapons spawning on the map at set times is laughable!

[@Th3_HP]

You know what I love about Late night gaming He's sounds so level headed and calm and makes pretty good arguments and he also sees the good thing about things that he dislikes and thats why I subscribed in the first place

[@zackfurlong5417]

Interesting take on the power fantasy bit, however, I'd like to make a different argument I feel that the armour abilities in halo 5 make the player less like a "super soldier" and more like a guy in an expensive suit A majority of the abilities are just part of the mobility trend; things like climbing and sprinting I can understand as those are things that people do, but the jet based mobility features make me feel more like iron man than they make me feel like master chief It diminishes the power you feel as a "super soldier", I play as a genetically modified monster of a human being, so let me be able to break holes in walls without needing a jet boost to do so With old school armour abilities they at least had the excuse that they were customized upgrades to the suit, but now that it's just a common feature it really loses its unique charm

[@IAmCornholio117]

Guys don't forget that shields also have a huge role in the core of a halo game. I didn't like the connection between the shields and enhanced mobility in Halo 5, such as sprint for example . Also, as weird as it sounds, I really miss the classic shield mechanism from Halo ce(and Reach) with the hp bar and the need to find a medkit. When you keep in mind that depleting your shields has major consequences, you learn how to use them more wisely during a firefight.

[@lucapacitti1629]

Taras im here from the future to end the Halo drought! Halo 6 is called Halo Infinite and it comes out in winter of 2020! Halo Reach is added to the MCC AND the MCC is released on PC! Don’t worry, things are looking good for Halo, stay strong

[@sirhurricane4350]

With the clamber and sprint makes sense in theory. they're nimble agile super soldiers. Why shouldn't they be able to pull themselves up onto platforms and be able to run?

[@kingorange7739]

Come back when u have a good argument. This is about gameplay not lore

[@sirhurricane4350]

@@kingorange7739 it's not lore it's common sense dude.

[@kingorange7739]

Ian Gerhart what common sense? It’s a game!!! Games do not have to be held to lore or realism

[@alexlouis3289]

If everyone is super then no one is super.

[@glowaru]

It's kind of insane when you think about how much money and success 343i and Microsoft have missed out on ever since Halo 4 by not realizing how they should've treated the franchise all along.

[@brandonstevens5628]

"Halo 6 is right around the corner"

[@kurtispowers5776]

Forgot what the theme at 4:00 is what is it called

[@domsang422]

The only spartan ability I like are the evade thrusters, slide, and sprint.. but maybe sprint can be brought back to the way H4/ Reach did it IMO O NO I PUT MY OPINION ON THE INTERNET... I don’t care, screw that rule

[@Azrael_Equinox]

Dom Sang I would like the thrusters to be an ability as well but I prefer H3's equipment more

[@spiguy]

I could see slide replacing Spartan charge.

[@justarandomperson3700]

Kurt -051 Slide is already in the game, though.

[@spiguy]

Yeah, but I mean, instead of "Spartan charging" when you press "B" sprinting, it would make you slide and kick the opponent. Then, you'd end up crouched, "kicking" your encounter, but unable to evade (if every ability other than sprint all relied on the same system).

[@JesuSoup]

Dom Sang yea that was cool because the maps were still designed with the base movement in mind and each armor ability broke some part of the map

[@skaboodlydoodle]

I see your points and most of them are really well-founded. However I had a lot of issues with classic Halo Big Team encounters. Many of the maps were designed in such a way that the ONLY feasible way to play the map at all was in a vehicle. Take blood gulch for example. Without things like sprint, armor lock, or a long range weapon a footsoldier is almost completely useless and laughably vulnerable and is forced to hug the perimeter of the map for what very little cover there is. When we're told things by the lore, like that spartans can run at 50 miles per hour, jump 15 feet, and had reflexes that made the Matrix movies blush that was just not represented in classic halo in any way whatsoever. Sprinting is an inherent human action. It's part of every kind of ground-based combat. Accuracy is also an inherent factor in combat. Every military that ever existed has wanted an accurate standard weapon that could out-range the enemy. Forcing the player to only ever move at walking pace and giving him a majority of weapons that are only effective out to 15 feet drags down the franchise when it's trying to compete with modern games which give the player far more agency. I do agree that Halo 5 "evolved" halo TOO much, but by Halo 3 I found myself severely underwhelmed at the agonizingly dull and slow gameplay when other series like Crysis and Call of Duty ACTUALLY made you feel like a post-human badass. There needs to be a balance. Halo needs to incorporate mechanics that empower the player within the context of the LORE while also not breaking the core tenants of design that make it stand out. This IS achievable. Just look at the dozens of campaign overhaul mods that have been put out by Nexus and SPV3 and others.

[@jackstraughan24]

I hate spartan abilities. Halo 5 is just unplayable as a competitive shooter to me. I enjoy the casual aspects of it but I just can’t play it competitively and as a competitive player this is hard to accept. I really hope 343 rectifies this in Halo 6. I really hope they just cater to both sets of fans though and create ranked and unranked playlists for both classic and modern gameplay, if that’s not possible they should just go back to classic gameplay. It’s what made Halo, Halo. Fuck trying to bring in Call of Duty fans, they will play Call of Duty regardless

[@MrSmity35]

its amazing how you dislike the enchanced movement in halo 5 yet still bring an objective conclusion to the table. a very few can do it, i really respect this. i extremely enjoyed this video due to the fact-like delivery of information. i found your channel when the master chief collection came out on pc (i had the honor today to play it at my buddys place cuz i dont have it YET) and im in love with your content since then. keep up the good work, i cant wait to watch new content of the master chief collection and more ;)

[@xXRagingInfernoXx]

The people who argue for armor abilities and say that “it’s in the canon and Spartans can do that” don’t understand game design. Enhanced mobility ruins map flow and the Halo core gameplay

[@quesocoatl21]

I like the fact that Spartan's feel more like actual power armor wearing super soldiers instead of like powerwalking joggers. Though I see what your saying.

[@timjoe8392]

I think Im going to get gunned for this but I liked how Halo 4 and Reach did it. Where you had to choose one Spartan ability to use. I did like sprint and I dont think that should be an ability (it should be like how it was in halo 4). But I do agree with some points you brought up good video.

[@marianobazan5695]

Tim Joe more like halo reach though halo reach art style was the best

[@GraveUypo]

halo reach was the best halo, no shame in noticing that.

[@ErdrickHero]

What is the name of the music with the vibraphones? I knew at one point but now I've forgotten and I'd like to be able to look it up.

[@germguy6884]

ill leave a like, cause im coo like that, but never try avalanche like that again. that is a very well paced map, if you would've said sandtrap i could've agreed but naw you had to try avalanche like that.

[@Jockster109]

But sandtrap is great and unique. It has elephants man!

[@doncoria9505]

classic Halo: * energy shield with auto-recharge system * unhuman jump * low recoil * you can move and shot without lose accurancy * your energy shield makes you a little more inmune to the flood * you can kill Elites with one punch in the back if they didnt see you so....in short words....you are a superhero since the phrist Halo game, we never need that 343'Spartan abylities

[@zachb1706]

Inhuman jump? You mean that it accurately represents low gravity Low recoil? Your a superhuman, in the real world we have already invented exo-suits that can take the impact of recoil for you Moving and shooting was a huge part of halo and provides a strafing strategy for advanced players

[@sb7798]

Health packs

[@machina5]

Cause shitty Power Ranger gimmicks have no place in Halo

[@jeromeciarkowski1367]

Even though I overall like the direction Halo is moving, I love your videos! It’s great to see opposing viewpoints-but it’s also great to listen to your awareness of not everyone may not share the same point and also your valid critiques and analysis. Glad I found this channel!

[@benedictbrophy5651]

Halo 5 is a game that really makes you feel like halo

[@kingorange7739]

Then what is Halo? Hmmm?

[@PnCIa]

I myself do not outright dislike Spartan abilities, but i do think that sprint and ads actively hurt the gameplay vs. AI, meaning the campaign What you describe as a constant speed -> slow down -> speed i would describe as fast movement -> fast kill -> fast movement. The campaign is filled with canon fodder due to your squad needing targets, your increased abilities, the hardware ressources of the XBone and so forth. The mix of speed and ads is genius for controllers because it makes engagements more controllable, but Halo has been about a carefully designed mix your speed plus enemies reaction. Playing the MCC just highlights how older titles had more deliberate movement which also made the AI seem to be more effective. They usually simply live longer, which is fun. Ever since Halo 4 and to an extend Reach, TTK vs. AI got faster, giving them less time to express their abilities. Halo 4 also had a lot of stop and pop gameplay.

[@sorryimlate2639]

Lol halo 6 is right around the corner

[@cold_chili3356]

I agree with the ideas in your video, but then one thing I can't wrap my head around is that Halo Reach had sprint, and I loved the pacing of that game.

[@siimasterchief2527]

Halo 2 had a faster movement to it, start mentioning that when comparing new games to old games. If you're going to complain ; complain right. Also, 343 has stated that they’re making Halo for newer players ; not going to do a reverse and take 50 steps back to make a classic Halo - That is literally what the MCC is for. If not, while go back and pop your disks in for Halo 1, 2, 3 and Reach. In fact I have not seen or heard 343 state they're making a classic Halo. Words and context matter, so don’t take one thing and automatically assume that’s what they're going for when 343 has stated that their modernizing Halo for new fans and old. > That concept being, Halo will still have the classic mechanics, with new mechanics for newer players / players who don’t care about the gameplay for the “gOlDen tRiLoGy” of Halo... ( You don’t have to use the new mechanics if you don’t want to, but don’t complain if you are out gunned or out played by someone willing to COMBAT EVOLVE in a 1v1 situation. ) My grip with Halo under 343 is that they cater to the fans too much VS them just making whatever game they want. This is the CORE REASON why Halo is being set back, ( Not Halo Infinite ), But Halo being considered dead or trashed on. The Halo community has become so T O X I C that it baffles me that Halo youtubers don’t address the real issues for Halo being derailed. Bungie DID NOT CARE what any fan said, requested or complained about when making Halo 1 - 3 / ODST and Reach, and they were pretty engaging with the community on the forums. ALL FORUMS. In fact Bungie would straight up ban people for whining to much ( Being toxic ) Bungie implemented Armor and Spartan abilities first. Remember that kiddo’s, Bungie made Halo Open world before 343 did... Remember that kiddo’s. Not just Halo 3 ODST, But ever other Halo... Remember all the books with the Maps of each level and a description of what you can do on each map / level... I do. I remember being able to get sidetracked like in Skyrim or Fallout and explore the maps without having to do an objective and stumbling on something unexpected or random. 343 is expanding on that, CAPITALIZING on it. If Bungie still had control of Halo ; Halo wouldn’t be Halo, it would be Destiny gameplay. Halo reach was Bungie showing that if they had more years in their contract with Halo, they would do what 343 is doing with Halo. . . . 343 is simply doing what Bungie wanted to do. They are even adding / added cut content, from weapons, vehicles and what not that bungie couldn’t add do to the limitations and restrictions. Hate on 343 all you want, but You’re still going to but they're product. See you on the battlefield ;D

[@ariyune7007]

Lol, cope with having a trash game and dying community in Halo 5 then

[@theomegaumbreonmemechannel135]

Didn't reach kill the competitive scene? So how does that give 343 the excuse to build off of WHAT FAILED?

[@conor1940]

Great video dude I was just wondering if you could turn the volume up on your Mike, I find it hard to hear u, this is partly due to my crappy phone speaker though

[@daboo123]

I'm the complete opposite of you. I love everything about the new gameplay.

[@sharkk4877]

Me too man, multiplayer is super fun with them. Campaign? Not so much

[@bennstuart5913]

Great video again LateNight! Have there been any details on the movement in Halo 6?

[@nickallen2288]

Taras, just get gud. haha jk

[@Azrael_Equinox]

Nick Allen #scrubslaya

[@garyoakv8965]

Nick Allen Tarkus! Tarkus! Tarkus!

[@BlazeHound]

Hey, remember grenade jumping as a tactic or a solution to puzzle or parkour maps in Halo? Hey, remember puzzle and parkour maps? When was the last time you saw one of those? Last time I saw one was back in Halo 3 or Reach. I remember being amazed by grenade jumping as a kid playing Halo. My friend showed me you could throw a nade at your feet, jump and then crouch to reach higher places. It's something that is never used in games, much less Halo. Remember the cardboard cutout of one of Bungie's employees at the start of the final mission in Halo 3? Easiest and most common way of getting to it was standing on a friend's head and having them jump and sacrifice themselves while you jump off and land on the beam. Then your friend would respawn and you would crouch while moving forward and jump into the side thing where the cutout was. Unless you have the Cowbell Skull on in Halo 3, doing it on your own takes a lot of skill as you can get to it on your own if you nade jump just right. I have pulled it off once and only once. It was so satisfying to nade jump to get to the beam on my own. Sprint, Thruster Pack and Clamber ruins all of that. You wouldn't even need Thruster Pack or Clamber to get to it. Probably even running without sprint and just using the Thruster Pack.

[@AlexEpikGamer]

I support you to abandon halo because we need to let that game die.. #LetHaloBeFree #NoMoreHalo They will never bring the memories and good times that made halo.

[@Jockster109]

chico Yh but we don't wanna end on a bad note, surely we should try for one last good game.

[@AlexEpikGamer]

Take On Me my halo ended with reach so im happy how it ended I haven’t bought no halo games ever since. I just hate seeing the backlash of it so let it die.

[@bigroaststyrone8135]

Wow, that's quite... Pessimistic

[@viperblitz11]

When you mentioned sprint as a utility, I was brought back to Reach. In my opinion, it should have stayed at Reach's form of gameplay (give or take some innovations I can't bother to think of atm), and focused on developing the weapon and vehicle sandbox from there. Perhaps they might have even written a decent story after Reach if they had stayed simple and rationed more time toward the writing and characters (If youtubers doing this for a hobby can pitch a better idea than the head writers behind the entire plot of the game, you're doing something wrong).

[@LateNightHalo]

viperblitz11 despite my many issues with Reach, I never minded how it handled sprint. It was a utility that could be controlled by the developer. If they didn’t want you sprinting in a specific level, you didn’t get sprint

[@aceclover758]

Yea. For me, Reach and 3 had the best gameplay. Abilities in Reach is how it should have stayed. Just expand on the abilities

[@raidengodofthunder6177]

I rather have armor abilites than Spartan abilities but i would keep clamber from halo 5.

[@danielleighton4161]

Raiden god of thunder i would rather not have them there at all

[@LateNightHalo]

Clamber would still place an unnecessary restriction on the developer's part. It would force the developers to make everything EXTRA tall so you cant simply clamber out of the map.

[@raidengodofthunder6177]

LateNightGaming i do see you point man it's just hard coming to a middle ground.

[@raidengodofthunder6177]

RabidSANGHEILI shut up didn't ask for your input.

[@danielleighton4161]

Raiden god of thunder there doesn’t need to be a middle ground. They can just go back to the formula that works.

[@S_Dhillon647]

I really like sprint and the thruster packs for extra mobility, but ground-pound, hovering, and spartan charge NEED to go.

[@JimHalpertFromTheOffice]

I like Spartan abilities because it *enhances* the gameplay. I'm a casual player and by no means a pro, but if Halo didn't evolve, it would just be stuck with the classic triangle of "grenade/shoot/melee". You play as a Spartan supersoldier, highly trained, heavily armed and armored, and very expensive. It makes sense for your Spartan to do more than just the classic triangle.

[@LateNightHalo]

DarkEternity1017 the issue though is that “triangle” is perfectly balanced. Rock Paper Scissors would collapse if a 4th element was added in the same way halo has sort of broke down with a 4th element added