Why Hangboarding is Being Replaced - 3 New Training Sessions

[@davidk3567]

Why did everyone wake up and choose violence? Its a pick up edge and has become very popular. All of the FREE info in this video is valuable, especially for you guys because you appear to not know anything about pick up edges. They are also great for warming up outdoors. You dont need weights, you can use a loading pin and stand on it or wrap it around your foot, or just use weights at the gym

[@geometerfpv2804]

I think the "violence" is because people feel lattice is using this to sell their new product...but I don't get it. Of course they are! This channel exists to support their business! It's their livelihood! Sometimes I think the comments are just a net negative on society. Maybe the world would be a better place if these guys all had jobs in corporate selling super-efficient sales systems designed to suck money out of people who can't afford to spend? Would that be better? Let them sell their climbing thingy!

[@AlmightyUniden]

I 100% agree with this. This has been the biggest game changer to fix my wrist issues. Precise control over the weight is the bread and butter of any progressive training!

[@andrej_capko]

Would love to know more about how you worked to fix your wrist issues with a pick-up edge! I have been rehabing my wrist for a while and am slowly getting back in, and something like this could really help get me back on track with finger training.

[@PureWonder1111]

@@andrej_capko Not sure what this guy did, but I used the rolling thunder grip (thicker version) to rehab my wrist issues. Thumb under is good for flexors and thumb over is good for extensors. Mix them both in at light weights at first and gradually build up the intensity

[@AceRanger20]

Lattice has been recommending no hangs for a while, so this isn’t something they are suddenly promoting and saying they believe in because they are releasing a product. They seem to be releasing a product because it’s something they believe in. I bought a no hang block back in December to help rehab finger injuries back to where my strength should be. It has been fantastic for my finger strength and getting them back in shape. I hate doing any type of finger work, but it does work. You have to put some effort into coordinating it with your kinetic chain for hanging, but that has partially been solved by doing some regular hangboard hangs every so often. The density hangs in particular have been amazing for rehab and recovery, and the ability to control the weight so well reduces chance of further injury while going through rehab exercises. I’ve never been able to hold bodyweight on 20mm hangboard edge because of how many finger injuries I’ve had, and I trained to finally do it on my no hang block. Got to about 47.5% bodyweight per hand on the 20mm and decided to try hangboard to see if it made a difference. First attempt was 1 sec, which I was happy with. Few more attempts that same day, and I got up to 5 seconds of hang time and I think it was just getting my fingers to work properly with my back in the hanging position.

[@LatticeTraining]

Thanks! We absolutely believe in this tool and the method of training in general. Good to see you've had success with it too.

[@AceRanger20]

⁠@@LatticeTraining the success has been nice, and it’s kept my fingers healthier than before! I believe I had been watching some videos on this channel with no hangs recommended, and my climbing partner also used one so I decided to get it and see if it helped out. Keep up the good work!

[@richardgreen8569]

The cynicism of some of the comments here is astounding. Is it so unbelievable that lattice are making a pick up style training tool _because_ they believe in it rather than touting they believe in it because they just made a tool? Not to mention they gave plenty of very good supporting arguments for pick up training and it is a general trend in the climbing training community for good reason. Honestly, i'd say save your distrust and cynicism for where it matters (conglomerates like Unilever and tech giants maybe) and if you can't see that a company like lattice is run for the passion and love of their work then maybe you need to reassess your trust issues

[@verbalwound5874]

That happens when you sell a piece of wood for $72

[@richardgreen8569]

@@verbalwound5874 a self developed fit for purpose specialist niche wooden tool with smoothed edges and ergonomic form factor that is built to last and manufactured and distributed by a small company you mean? Not to mention the marketing, branding and making high quality KZbin videos that go with it. Honestly it isn't a bad price and I don't expect to see any lambos in any upcoming Lattice videos... If you have the skills and tools required to do it cheaper for yourself then go for it but if you're expecting small companies making their own niche products to keep prices in line with raw materials or cheap shit on Temu then you'll either be sorely disappointed or the world will go to pot when we expect everyone to match prices that can only be matched by destroying environments and ruining lives

[@Del1Dub]

Alright richard how much did they pay you, 2 pick up style training tools?

[@richardgreen8569]

@@Del1Dub They paid in blood diamonds of course, as is customary for evil mega-corps like Lattice. Nah, honestly I just watch small companies struggle and close while people constantly obsess about "cheap, cheap, cheap" and undercut companies they should love and go to companies with no values for a small saving and it hurts my soul. Where you spend your money is the most democratic vote you have - support the things you love or watch them all disappear!

[@Cleanpea]

It is the Linus screwdriver and backpack, all over again. A deafeningly loud minority, whereas most people will act with scrutiny and see that it is a great product. Can't please everyone👍

[@moving_particles]

my feedback: the info in the video is really useful (i use a tension block). it doesn't feel too sales pitchy even though showcasing a new product. I just think the title should be "Why Hanboarding is being replaced in our training programmes - 3 new training sessions", it seems hyperbolic to me to say it's being replaced entirely, it isn't. What Ollie says in the video is clear, the title isn't in my opinion. Perhaps a bit pedantic but I think these subtle changes might not get the negative responses you see below.

[@AceRanger20]

It’s the KZbin game unfortunately, clickbait titles and thumbnails drive views and engagement. They aren’t trying to live off of KZbin ad revenue, but they’ve still gotta play the game as a business unfortunately

[@LatticeTraining]

Thanks for the feedback. It is appreciated. @AceRanger20 said it well. We do have to play the KZbin game a bit if we want a video to reach our community. Ad revenue definitely does not pay the bills, that's not why we do it. We do it because when the thumbnail and title stands out, it simply gets more clicks and KZbin pushes the video to more people. And we genuinely want to share our training knowledge with the community, product placement or not. There is of course a balance between dishonest click-bate and honest click-bate. And it's not the most fun making that call, I'm not here to dupe people. The irony is, there is a good chance if we didn't play the game and make titles like we do, you and many others may never have seen this video.

[@ryandelaney5842]

@@LatticeTraining Well said, and makes perfect sense

[@davidk3567]

Honestly speaking this looks really great and I can tell lattice has put a lot of thought into this one. Theres nothing like this out in the market, combining the pick up edge, the new trend of ergonomic edges, plus multiple edge sizes. I also like the edge sizes chosen, as well as the neutral orientation as the tension block is either incut or awkwardly neutral, either causing one to feel like theyd dry fire or the weight distribution is off causing possible tweaks when lifting heavy. Great and innovative product!

[@LatticeTraining]

Thanks David. Having seen all the work that went into designing this it is really nice to hear your comments 😊. I'll pass on your message to our product designer!

[@Hdingdong]

It sounds like they stole all of the work from others in the industry. It’s unfortunate

[@davidk3567]

@@LatticeTraining this is 100% innovation, and thats what innovation is, mixing ideas together to produce something novel, which was clearly done here. Products like these only benefit climbers with more options and better tools, which also promotes more competition and further innovation. I think lattice should be proud of what they produced here and the high quality content you provide for the community. This is by no means stealing. Not to call people out but fricticious pretty much stole their monolith hangboard layout from tension grindstone, they look almost identical. Something like that should definitely be called out and frowned upon. Not to mention tension has made an unlevel pick up edge as well. This is the only product I’ve seen combine it with multiple edge sizes, and is the most complete pick up edge I’ve seen to date. Hopefully you are not too disheartened by the loud minority here, as your content is invaluable and you really have created an awesome product to be proud of.

[@MrWhatev4r]

I’ve completely replaced all my hangboard finger warm up and training exercises to a hang block even before they released this video. To those saying the title is click baity don’t have any long term experience switching over to solely hang blocks. I use the tension block and unleveled edge so all you guys getting butthurt by their “sales pitch” don’t know any better on the benefits of these hangblocks over hangboards

[@kooksgarage3301]

ive been climbing for 10 years and up to v12 nothing wrong with using hang boards. But for fatties that cant hold their bodyweight on edges the load pin bloc is definitely easier than setting up a pulley system on a hang board.

[@sethgilbertson2474]

Ive been using a homemade lifting block for about 5 years. In my experience, it has been the best for gaining finger strength. I just do max lifts without holding for time. Haven't reached bodyweight yet but slowly workup to it!

[@LSDerek]

The second limitation really surprises me, i'd say for me its the complete opposite. With hangboarding you're "just hanging" what you almost never do when climbing, with lifting you're actively pulling on an edge what you almost always do when climbing.

[@beelzebub2808]

Remember to build up to the max hangs/holds properly, guys. I did them after an improper warmup and had a sprained pulley for 3 months.

[@daanschone1548]

I use both a pick-up and a hangboard (easy to make yourself). I prefer the hangboard. Biggest reason is you need a lot of weights for pickup training. While hanboarding you got your body weight already. So I'd even say a hanboard is more portable in that way.

[@kooksgarage3301]

I think this is tailored to all these new beginner climbers who cant hold their body weight on hang boards and cant rig a pulley system to remove weight. it makes sense for a company to get people to buy something simple like the load pin bloc.

[@daanschone1548]

@kooksgarage3301 well I started hangboarding after two decades of climbing and when I started I still had to remove weight for the 20mm beastmaker max hangs. So no worry if this is you. In fact great because you found a weakness that can easily be improved.

[@captaincaveman5156]

Ollie flips you off 😂 This is a really helpful video. I already have a tension block, but some of the routines and advice here are new to me. So thanks for that.

[@oleshikaru]

i don't have a hangboard where i live now so i got one of these some months ago. i've mostly just attached a resistance band to it instead of weight and it has helped a LOT in having my fingers feel strong and healthy for climbing. its sort of a variation of the Emil Abrahamsson's no hang routine. Works for me anyway.

[@kronosis2767]

Buy a pin that holds 2inch diameter weights and go to a gym that has plates. I bought a tension block to rehab my finger after rupturing a pulley. I would highly recommend Tension and their products.

[@LuisDiaz-fj2em]

I'm slowly going to switch to a block, the hardest part is acquiring weights for home. I've seen gains with weighted hangs, but also overloaded myself and was out for a few months. I now do hangs on the beastmaker2k, but only body weight. Slowly I've been working to pockets and mono hangs, so the block is definitely a great tool to expedite the process. I like the idea of slowly loading an injured finger as well. Different tools for different goals!

[@garronfish8227]

I really enjoy these. I like the the one finger option. I took a long time to build up the kgs. But I like doing sloper training on a hangboard.

[@jorgealexandremoreira1792]

Great video. Thank you.

[@stefanp2883]

Thank you for this video! I've bought a pair of "mobile hangboards" and used them by hanging it to my pullup bar, later I bought a lifting pin and use them in combination for a few months now. Unfurtunately my wrists are injured for a few months now (becoming better and better slowly), but with weights on the lifting pin the load is very good controllable so I was able to do lifts without overdoing it. I didn't follow a strict traning plan or schedule for my fingertraining yet, think I will use the information in this video for orientation in the future.

[@philleng480]

Excellent idea - I fingerboard, but work away 3 days a week - and then I cant. This will keep me going. Thank you.

[@Theaddekalk]

as a warm up i use things like that. i do use the hangboard and edges if i train in in the gym or board, but i have an hangboard with me when climbing outside also jsut to wamr up and do some ppullups. both are great for different reasons

[@Morten-VindVisby]

Could you exchange the weights with training elastics? I know they are not as precise for measuring progression, but are easier to bring along and setup

[@plixplux]

Solid video. Have had a block lying around for a while now but never started using it, but will now. Cheers!

[@Youradnick]

How frequently should I involve this in my training? My current split is to climb 2-3 times a week, dedicate one day at the gym to legs, and an additional day for antagonist muscles. Any tips or recommendations on making a well rounded climbing focused weekly workout would be appreciated!

[@Productionbrikfilm]

nice video thanks guys! I have used this kind of training with my lattice plan (to train a weak grip type) and it was game changing for me

[@EmileModesitt]

Where can we see the data/research from the collaborations with local universities you mentioned? Super interested to see what data led to this design.

[@LatticeTraining]

I believe Tom is putting together an Instagram post that fully outlines the R&D process and data we collected. We're currently working with a Master student from Sheffield Hallam University on an edge comparison and single/double arm testing. This is ongoing research currently and still collecting data.

[@EmileModesitt]

Looking forward to seeing it

[@deanodxb]

It’s more portable! (Provided you don’t factor in the weight stack you need to lift.)

[@spanky590]

You can use it in a gym, tie it to something and pull using RPE... or you could use a tindeq.

[@Zaphod_]

Couldn't you use a resistance band instead of weight? Just take one of the weakest band, fold it and stand on it That'd make it even more portable

[@LatticeTraining]

Clipping it to resistance bands is good. But a fixed and non flexible strap is good too for max pulls. A lot of our athletes do this while travelling and it is very common as a warm-up tool outside too.

[@telkmx]

that’s why i use a loading cell for it. i don’t have to carry weight. yeah its harder to position right but its a good alternative

[@MrCandau8]

What are the training benefits/differences of Max Holds vs Lifts?

[@camkay3633]

Commonly said that beginners/ people new to climbing shouldn't do hangboarding, would this be on the table with low loads + low frequency to support a training plan

[@maxjacobs6188]

Yeah, just give your fingers enough time to recover and I don't rly think there's any injury risk at lower intensities

[@josephearley9530]

Great video! Any thoughts on why the PIP joint is the best place to load for off the wall finger training? Metacarps 30mm unlevel edge supports the PIP joint which means you can load the flexors more, which might offer a higher recruitment adaptation. C4HP say this max recruitment is the key for off the wall finger training, and you can get coordinated on small holds on the wall/board instead. I’m not a sports scientist and might have butchered that theory a bit, but I’ve seen some really positive results using C4HPs recommendation for a larger edge and just wondering why you chose the PIP joint as the driver for the lattice design? Also I’d anecdotally suggest the tindeq progressor is the way to go as opposed to lifting pin, as it feels more self regulating. I always seemed to build chronic tweaks with the lifting pin, maybe something about how the lowering phase can feel a bit jerky when max loading? Either way, unlevel no hangs has resolved all of my chronic tweaks and made my fingers feel bulletproof, which I never thought would happen! I’ll definetely be testing the MX!

[@LatticeTraining]

Hey Joseph, we don't think it's the "best" place to load the fingers. I think it's hard to prove something is better than another thing at this stage. But we do think it is better than a flat edge. The main driver behind the design was actually feedback from pro athletes, coaches and physios. Its R&D was led by ergonomics and comfort. All the people involved in the design testing used unlevel, scoped, rounded, flat edges etc. and a combination of them too. The design we settled on was this one. Almost everyone reported it being the most comfortable edge they've trained with and we all now use it and won't go back to a flat edge. It's not superior to the unlevel edge and its design is not driven solely by the theory of biomechanics like Tyler describes. It's just different. However the concept of using a larger edge that scoops back for the longer middle two fingers means you can select the right anatomical edge depth for your hand size. And supporting your DIP joints more equally. This will help you lift heavier loads not losing energy through the DIP joints and get more force to the muscles of the forearm. So there is definitely a biomechanical advantage over a flat edge, that may not otherwise fit your hand size. But it's not trying to replace the unlevel edge. Hope that helps 😊

[@josephearley9530]

@@LatticeTraining Thanks for the detailed answer! I love the question about whether off the wall finger training needs to look like climbing, and pick-up equipment and protocols seem to be right at the heart of that. Excited to see what results people get with this product :)

[@kooksgarage3301]

they also say that larger edge training does not correlate to smaller edge performance so not sure where youre going on this.

[@ArtZ00]

any chance the sessions are going to be available on the crimpd app?

[@mattiaconte8637]

In the video is mentioned that you could train repeaters 7-3 as you normally would on a hangboard. What would be the intensity intended?

[@thomaspinches9518]

It also takes twice as long as you’re only working one hand at a time. Also, I don’t see how you can increase more incrementally with lifting vs hanging - if I want to add 0.5kg I’ll add 0.5kg. If anything that more incremental with hangs as you’re spreading the weight over both hands. Also, as stated, I’d need to invest in 40kg of weight just to get equivalent of body weight hang… not for me.

[@mikekenny1698]

My left hand is significantly weaker than my right, like laughably weaker, especially because I just had a 2 week break from injury, I like the crimp blocks because I can set it at the exact limit for my left hand and target only the left hand as oppose to fingerboard where my right hand might be over compensating and taking some of the load off my left hand

[@venelinbakalov5945]

If you don't have access to weights but instead dumbbells would this be a suitable option?

[@marnixvanderkolk]

Could you plz provide pics of how to use that in the 3 advertised pinching seizes? For my big hands it seems nearly impossible to pinch it and not have the tips of my fingers around the edges. Other than that the block looks good. And lifting has been a part of my training for a while now. And I can highly recommend it.

[@rastaroumain]

the biggest take away I got from starting lifting on single fingers was to find out how unbalanced my hands were : My right smal finger couldn't hold 5kgs , my left index couldn't half crimp etc... These sort of weaknesses can easily lead to injury, but they are pretty easy to fix with time and single finger dead lifts.

[@Gestra1985]

Could this be an option for people recovering from a shoulder injury? I have been dealing with a supraspinatus tendonitis for 6 months. First I continued hangboarding as it didn't seem to affect my shoulder, but as the tendonitis remains, and following my physio's advice, i recently banned all overhead exercises, including fingerboarding. Now I think about getting a lifting edge...

[@UNVIRUSLETALE]

Nice but 70€ for a single tiny board seems a bit steep considering hangboards are ~100

[@lazeavlad]

Because it's lattice and you have access to the big data of climbers they have, of course if you pay extra😂😂

[@UNVIRUSLETALE]

@@lazeavlad oh yes the largest set of people gripping wood in history 👁️👄👁️

[@danielpavlich5748]

Quick question, what is a density pull used to train / why would you program this?

[@tompowellcoachingclimbing]

Great video. Thanks Lattice. I’ve been curious about this method of finger training for a while and so I appreciate you have shared all this info in a free and concise way 👍

[@LatticeTraining]

Glad it was helpful Tom 😀

[@kevtron82]

As you said, portability is definitely a pro of using a portible board like this, but how would you be able to do proper sessions on the road without weights (which are not very portable of course)?

[@Rob-ez2cm]

My mate has one of those force measurers that they use in the video. By watching the screen, I can apply exactly 50kg of force, for example. I've only done it once but it felt really good and not too dissimilar to lifting actual weight

[@sebastienm2037]

Hey ! For the Max hold, are you doing it on only one edge by session ?

[@lhitman2222]

I've bought one recently, but I have no idea how to use it at home. Do you have recommendations? Like for example weight. Do I have to buy a carbiner to attach it to a weight or something?

[@LatticeTraining]

If using an MX Edge at home, you have a few options. But the simplest and preferable method is to lift weights with it. The ideal set up would be a set of weight plates, a lifting pin and a carabiner. You can see Ollie use this exact set-up from @5:56 in this video. You don't need a climbing carabiner, a cheap one from a DIY store should be suitable. They should be rated for more than enough weight.

[@lhitman2222]

@LatticeTraining oh ok understood, thanks a lot! I'll start immediately 😁❤

[@BlackMoonGaming]

wow, 68 euro for a 25*12*4cm piece of wood and 1.5mt climbing rope, that's a steal! just kidding, I understand how this might be good but I'll fabricate one myself in half an hour this weekend using some hard wood pieces left from home renovation. the price is just nonsensocal, at least from my perspective.

[@LatticeTraining]

Good luck with the DIY ☺️

[@gualtieroamadei8753]

If I want to improve a specific grip position with this tool, like a three-finger pocket, how do you recommend I get started? With max hangs, repeaters or long hangs? Thank you!

[@mattryan371]

Should you keep a small bend in your elbow like hangboarding

[@Test-jj4to]

Thanks for the great video. How should we structure this workout in our week ? Same day of climbing and before climbing? How many times per week ? (for maxhangs for example).

[@Fred-oz3tw]

honestly hangboarding is superior. its just a trend. its not a positive argument, that shoulders are not a limiting factor. shoulders should be a limiting factor. you need to get the force from your fingers through your shoulders when climbing. otherwise its useless fingerstrength.

[@pierrefitch]

Fingerboard is my favorite

[@1989SeanSmith]

Can I ask why you reccommend a 10 second hold when doing the max rep? I'm trying to compare it to something like a standard deadlift, where you just lift, maybe hold at the top for a second and then dropping back to the ground. Whats the benefit of holding for so long when specifically training the max lift? Thanks in advance for hopefully clearing things up for me :)

[@R3FL3XSN1P3R]

A deadlift you are training the concentric (lifting up) portion of the movement. You don't care about your ability to hold it at the top. Finger strength we are looking to build isometric (hold one position) strength to be able to hold onto a wall. On a wall, being able to hold something for a second and drop off wouldn't be useful, so we up that time.

[@justinmeyerr]

Of course. Nobody just hangs on crimps on climbs. If it’s really about finger strength of course lifting is way better.

[@chrismorgan6545]

@LatticeTraining it has often been said that beginning climbers should not use a hangboard to strengthen fingers until they get to around the V5ish level. With this new research does that stay the same if they wanted to incorporate a tension block to build finger strength?

[@LatticeTraining]

We don't really collect data on climbers below V4. We always want climbers to have good experience with the tool before we do any form of max testing. So I can't really say we have research to back up or dispute that statement. But in theory, I don't see why any climber needs to avoid a hangboard if its used properly. The tool is not dangerous, its how and why it is used. Early exposure makes a lot of sense if you're looking to progress fast in the sport. And strength and exposure to hangboarding can be used in a way to mitigate injury risk at any stage in someone's climbing career. The reason its commonly said that beginners should avoid it, is because they don't have the same knowledge and experience as more advanced climbers. But if you have guidance or come from another sporting background which means you know how to manage load and how to prioritise climbing skill practice, I don't see why you can't use one right away.

[@chrismorgan6545]

@@LatticeTraining thank you. This makes a lot of sense. As a personal trainer I never understood why more experienced climbers in classes would say stay away from a hangboard if taught properly. Now that I have expanded to include climbing instruction as well, I can move away from thoughts of the past and focus on future and teach my clients to perform the exercise safely and build gradually. Thanks again for the reply and appreciate the research based info that you all put out. It has been very beneficial to me and I pass it on to my students at the end of my classes by referencing your channel (and Catalyst climbing) as decent and vetted channels (in my opinion) to help build there skills as well. Thanks.

[@simoneperaz4510]

I have a question: is it normal (as a general rule for 99% of people), that after you reach around 150% of bodyweight, gains start to become smaller and much slower? (And could it be that somebody could have actually reached his/her limit in strenght?)

[@TheRockinPunk]

I'm curious how this interacts with athletes that do a lot of posterior chain strength work outside of climbing (e.g. heavy deadlifts). I feel like I would definitely prefer to do hangboarding the day after a heavy deadlift session rather than another exercise which is placing compressive pressure on the spine.

[@meagherman1013]

Your heavy deadlifts should be orders of magnitude larger than the weight your fingers can tolerate.

[@TheRockinPunk]

@@meagherman1013 not sure I agree with "orders of magnitue". let's say you have a working weight of 50% bodyweight for a unilateral fingerstrength exercise and 150% bodyweight for deadlift, yes there is a big difference but not 10x.

[@meagherman1013]

@@TheRockinPunk Today I learnt what orders of magnitude actually means. I would change that to 2-3x. Either way, I’m not sure picking up less than your body weight would place a significant compressive force on your spine, similar level to completing your first deadlift warm up.

[@VolodymyrBarna]

now please make a video about Tindeq :)

[@LatticeTraining]

Good call. Lots of uses that would be good to cover!

[@LatticeTraining]

Watch this space! 💪

[@anthonybarison7865]

I trained arm lifts for a while and I have the impression that tempo plays a big role to get a nice training stimulus on the grip. What are you observations? Is a 21x0 ideal? Or simply a 10x0? ;)

[@LatticeTraining]

Yes agreed, tempo is important. We're not too prescriptive but we suggested you lift fast and then hold for at least 1 or 2. Prescribing temp is a cool idea though!

[@iggimoore]

Will there be a Test and Workouts appearing on the Crimpd App? 😁

[@eurekaflows]

I think Lattice divorced themslves from Crimpd for like a year now. They don't use it anymore for their programs, and haven't promoted Crimpd in a long time.

[@LatticeTraining]

Yeah we don't work with Crimpd anymore. However we'll definitely be building out a free test like MyFingers, MyPinch and MyFlex that go with our other training tools. Free workouts might be in the pipeline too 👀

[@ThibaultCharbonnier]

Lifting usually makes my lower-back hurt after a few sessions. Hangboarding never did.

[@Glenners]

Ollie flips you off LOL

[@jaksonluk6882]

Still waiting for the acknowledgment of Tyler Nelson and others who have started the design and discussion of unlevelled pickup blocks way earlier than Lattice (unlevelled pickup blocks are in the market for a while, like the one from Tension climbing). Let’s see if this comment will be deleted…

[@LatticeTraining]

Hey Jason, thanks for bringing this up. This is not an unlevel edge. It is a flat edge with a concave design. Like you say, unlevel edges have existed for a while now and we're not the place to look for that design. I first saw one several years ago in the Foundry climbing centre (Sheffield) designed by pro climber Steve McClure. Tension climbing ones look great and I'd also recommend searching Metacarp Edge from Head to Toe 3D and Unlevel Edge from Andy (@process.physio). Tyler Nelson deserves a lot of credit for making finger length disparity common knowledge in the climbing community. I believe this was in 2022. Tyler is a great contribution to the climbing community and it's a shame some people feel its a "us or them" mentality. I personally think there is space for everyone in the community and building upon others knowledge is important for developing and moving forwards. I've seen comments suggesting we "stole" the idea which is an unfortunate sentiment because it suggests ownership of often common knowledge and ultimately is quite polarising. Credit were credit is due, many people have contributed to the R&D of this particular training tool. Medical professionals; Tyler Nelson (PT, Salt Lake), James Walker (Physio, Sheffield), Paul Huffy (Physio, Poole). Pro Climbers; James Pearson, Will Bosi, Aidan Robert and more. Most of the climbing coaches at Lattice especially Raf, Cam and Jonny. Also our clients. My tall client in Germany with big hands has tested prototypes and given feedback on edge sizes. That's at least who I can think of but I was not overly involved in the R&D. The design is principally lead by "what feel comfortable and great to train with". Hand size and finger length is a big factor in that. It's not using the exact same principles of the unlevel edge or it's biomechanics. I've personally seen the huge amount of work and the numerous iterations our product designer has put into this tool. He spoke to and worked with many amazing people on this project.

[@Sepp2009]

don't hangboard, do pick-up training!... *conveniently releases their own lifting block"

[@BAdinkersGaming]

30% bro

[@bao.ng04]

Bruh no one’s forcing u to buy it or train on the blocks, it’s not that deep

[@LatticeTraining]

Please still do hangboard training. It's good for you.

[@dominicsch530]

Wait they don't sell hangboards 😉

[@plixplux]

Did you think they did these videos out of the kindness of their hearts? It's a business, and they're extremely open about it, and extremely non-pushy about it. Not to mention that even though their main business is training plans, they're still super duper open about how you can develop your own and with what exercises.

[@davyvanderschoot6406]

It's fine to be cynical, but considering they already have the mini bar and the quad block you can be pretty sure this is just the latest iteration of a tool they believe in.

[@evankimber5131]

Im curious if the finger edge training will come into assessment testing or if hangboarding is going to still be the go to for that. Second question is if shoulder girdle is weakness in the chain would it be beneficial to warm up with sets using the edge in an overhead position to target that chain and then swap to pickups to finish off the fingers?

[@LatticeTraining]

Hey Evan. Both great questions. We'll continue to collect data on the new edge and it's possible it may be useful as a separate test from the hangboard. We're running a comparison study at the moment so we should know soon! Doing a combo of hangboarding and pick-ups sounds useful. I can see this being particularly good if you keep the hangboarding edge large (30-40mm) and do one-arm hangs for example. Mainly to target the shoulder. Then move to edge pick-ups to target the fingers.

[@jaymemiller7510]

Think he says PIP joint but means DIP joint. Looks like a good product though.

[@LatticeTraining]

Oh good spot! Sorry must have missed that in the edit.

[@Altropos]

The third point doesn't really hold up because if you are travelling but don't have access to a gym with weights, you can't do anything with the edge.

[@KeithRobertson57]

I sometimes travel with the edge, tindeq and loop of tape to stand on. Works great in hotel rooms, etc

[@Finimabob]

I use £15 chinese hanging scale to measure my pull force, works great

[@Glenners]

I know you said not to pull up with your shoulder. But are you engaging your rotator cuff/lat to stabalize? or are you mushing it against your body and using your lat?

[@carlosdumbratzen6332]

Just a reminder: these things can easily be built by yourself. You do not need to buy this stuff. Just some old scrap wood is enough. My hangboard cost me only the screws I used for screwing it to my wall

[@LatticeTraining]

Thanks for the reminder Carlos

[@R0TATES]

i think there is an error on the website when we want to buy it, there are 2 products the mxL and the mxS but there are no differents edges size for both as it said in the video. The mxL is 22/16/12 and the mxS is 18/14/8, is it normal ?

[@jrisner6535]

Yes, smaller fingers - smaller Edge

[@LatticeTraining]

Yeah the MXS has a range of smaller edges. Designed to suit shorter fingers or those looking to train on smaller edges.

[@DinoTamer23]

To me the only benefit is that it’s more portable than a traditional hardboard. The most obvious con that’s a dealbreaker for me is you can only train one hand at a time so it takes twice as long. Who has time to mess with this thing? Ridiculous and laughable to ascertain this is replacing hangboarding.

[@gregheusser9067]

The block is a little more portable than the 40kgs of plates

[@gt4joe]

What edge is Olli using for the 45kg weight? Not to use as a guide more for a base of comparison! Thanks

[@ClimbingKeen]

Will visit uses hang boards all the time

[@Zaphod_]

Couldn't you use a resistance band instead of weight? Just take one of the weaker bands, fold it and stand on it

[@davidk3567]

Yes this is very commonly done outdoors. Probably not the best for max lifts and progressive overload though

[@plixplux]

Resistance training be resistance training - my friend warms up like this at the crag. Only downside is that it's non-repeatable; difficult to measure the amount of resistance. But, I reckon that's only if you want to be a super nerd about it (like yours truly)

[@ShuriBear]

I love this channel, you guys really help! But this video felt not genuine and like a sales pitch. You missed the nail on this one.

[@LatticeTraining]

Thanks. I'm curious what made it feel not genuine to you?

[@mertekren5745]

is lattice training trying to be luxury brand or something? prices are just bonkers

[@mertekren5745]

Ps : i still love the vids

[@plixplux]

Let's say you start a business - most likely, you're going to set the prices as high as possible in order to make the most amount of profit possible. At least, that's how I'd do it. Ngl though, hangboard prices in general (not just Lattice) can be pretty stupid imho. Bet if you got your own CNC machine and made + sold about 10-20 hangboards, you'd break even.

[@richardgreen8569]

Honestly I think it is just being a small business and manufacturing niche physical products. Amazon, Temu and the like have just given us a completely warped sense of how much things cost to make. I imagine Lattice probably pays their staff and pays their taxes (fools!). It is also worth considering the niche nature of the product and the fact it is one-and-done and will probably last a lifetime and has no ongoing cost / accessories or anything associated with it.

[@richardgreen8569]

​​@@plixplux where are you keeping that CNC machine? And powering it? And paying for the marketing, branding and so on? And are you using bits of cheap ass wood from B&Q or actual quality and hand-friendly wood? I challenge you to try and undercut them and I think you'll find out why the prices are what they are. The real reason the prices are so high are: they are niche products made by small companies 🤷‍♂️

[@plixplux]

All good points tbh. I mean, I'm super keen on doing it but you pretty much put the finger on what's stopping me - there's no place I could actually put the damn thing 😅 You really would need a wood workshop considering the amount of sawdust that would get spread around.

[@Hopesfallout]

This is pretty simple: beastmaker hangboard second-hand costs me around 50 bucks, my bodyweight is free, putting additional crap into my backpack as additional weight is also free. This device plus the required plates is gonna cost me at least 200+: shit deal.

[@qweasd9153]

the tindeq setup is not too expensive. But I agree it can be a hassle to set up

[@spanky590]

You could make an edge or buy a used lifting block. I use a small edge so only need about 40kg for lifts. Bought from a guy online for not very much at all. Cheap cheap like the budgie!

[@richardgreen8569]

A bit of an oversimplification really. Why can't you tie the backpack and additional crap you put in it that's free to the end of a pick up style trainer? Personally I bought the pick up tool and used some dumbbell plates & kettlebells, a biner and some spare rope I already owned to attach to the bottom of it for free making it comparable in cost to your second hand beast maker example. The bonus is I didn't need a power drill, backboard or to make holes in the wall for the pick up tool. It just feels a little unfair that you've allowed the use of found items in your costing and compared it to only brand new items to make your point

[@AceRanger20]

All you have to do is loop a sling around your foot and pull against it while standing on it if you want to. It’s not that deep, and it’s very flexible for how you can use it.

[@LatticeTraining]

If you want cheap you can definitely find cheaper. I'd recommend a simple campus rung above a door frame. You can do a lot with a simple 23mm edge. We're not about making cheap products. It's priced based on all the R&D, the ongoing research and data we'll provide with it and quality materials. We want these things to last a lifetime and not need replacing. Beastmakers are good, can't argue with that. But hopefully Ollie made the point that this is not a hangboard and offers different value to training.

[@blubblubwhat]

Horrible backgroundmusic

[@kooksgarage3301]

sorry but I dont agree, if you cant hold your bodyweight hanging from an edge pulling it from the ground won't do anything for you.

[@LatticeTraining]

Interesting, why do you think that is?

[@kooksgarage3301]

@@LatticeTraining too many different muscles in hanging than from picking up from the ground.

[@mitchellbaker4806]

They're only making this video because other companies have cornered the market for hangboards and there's is a flop.

[@LatticeTraining]

Our hangboarding edge has the largest dataset behind it and has allowed many athletes to test their finger strength and endurance to inform their training. It's also really comfy to train on. We think it has been a success and are really happy with it. It's not a competition in our eyes. We just want to offer something unique and something that follows our principles. We'll continue to collect data with the new MX edge and support our community. And we'll keep offering free training advice regardless if people buy our tools or not.

[@mitchellbaker4806]

And here you are making a video with a thumbnail putting it in the trash 🤷

[@mitchellbaker4806]

Also I'd value your data more highly if you weren't already monetising that value with premium pricing.

[@mitchellbaker4806]

I actually love the curved edge at 12:20 though, no one else is doing that

[@imxd9698]

> lattice releases new lift block > day of: "hangboarding is dead" 🐸

[@charleslawrence7327]

It can simultaneously be true that they think there are many benefits to lift blocks and believe them to be valuable training tools, and that they want to share that information on the same day they release their lift block to help boost sales. Can't see what's wrong with that. Also, while the title is a little hyperbolic, if you actually watch the video it's quite clear that they do not claim that hangboarding is dead, but that rather that lifting blocks represent a viable alternative with a different set of pros/cons.

[@Thevikingclimb]

There’s a huge problem with this, you’re doing squats… so for us that it’s really easy to put weight on, if we start to do this our legs would be way bigger than what we want… and that would be add weight

[@LatticeTraining]

Very few people will put on much muscle mass/weight from doing squats in an appropriate manner. Most people need a lot of training volume and to be in a caloric surplus to gain muscle mass. The majority will gain only a very small amount of muscle mass and the strength increase negates and the weight increase. If you are concerned about increasing weight, work low reps, high weight. And think about things like isometrics and powerful movements to work mostly neural adaptations.

[@JohnSmith-uk7gy]

You aren't going to accidentally add multiple kilos of muscle to your legs by doing 50kg arm lifts. Besides, you should be doing squats, they are good for you.

[@euerhenning5780]

Disgraceful practices from lattice, credit where credit is due. Lost all my support in an instant, get lost.

[@WORKOUTSOLUTIONS]

❤☦CHRIST IS RISEN ✝️❤ ❤💪🙏☦ GOD GIVES US STRENGTH ✝🙏🧗‍♂🕊

[@DanielleMoraYT]

I just got my hang board delivered 🥲