Why I Go to a Byzantine Catholic Parish W/ Fr. Michael O'Loughlin

[@andrewdalton5988]

“There’s nothing more exclusive as when the priest tries to make the Holy Mass more inclusive.” Anyone else feel the same?

[@stevenstuart4194]

Yes, this is 100% true. All the monkeying and tinkering with the liturgy ends up doing more damage to all parties involved.

[@lionheart5078]

In wich way? I don't know if being more inclusive means not holding catholic doctrine and teaching or trying to tip toe around it then yes, if it means changing some small traditions with a small t to cater to certain groups of people then I see absolutely no problem with it. We don't want to be like old people who think anything creative or new is bad, and I notice this tendency a lot in the churhh today, especially from converts.

[@3ggshe11s]

You simply can't be all things to all people. So rather than try to please everyone, you might as well take a stand. The problem with a lot of mainline Protestant churches is that they've sacrificed their own theology for the sake of chasing after social trends in an effort to keep butts in the seats. And it's not working. It's doing just the opposite. Pharisaical rigidity in the opposite direction is obviously just as bad. The churches just need to find a way to meet people where they are while still helping to guide them toward the truth.

[@michellea9857]

This quote deserves to become a classic.

[@TheKielbasaKid]

In all honesty, I am Catholic today not because of anything the bishops and liturgical experts have done, but in spite of EVERYTHING the bishops and liturgical experts have done.

[@stevenstuart4194]

Byzantine Rite is indeed gorgeous. But my heart belongs to the Latin Mass. Glad we have both.

[@Sherlock910]

Amen, brother!! I've never been to the Byzantine Rite, but the Latin Mass is just timeless.

[@nilssonharrison]

@@Sherlock910 the orthoDox rite

[@pjsmith4369]

@@nilssonharrison No, the Byzantine Rite is Catholic. The Orthodox Rite has not been in Communion with the Catholic Church since the Great Schism of 1054.

[@pjsmith4369]

Are you referring to the Latin Mass of today or the Latin Mass pre Vatican II? They are not identical. There was NO English at all when I grew up. I believe that now, an English translation is provided. And are the readings and homily in English today? Only the Homily might be in English back then. Nobody wore long black veils - we would have thought they were people from Spain. Hats and doily like head coverings were the head coverings of the day ( or a Kleenex with a hairpin in a pinch ). I have no interest to ever attend a Latin Mass again. Not great memories.

[@nilssonharrison]

@@pjsmith4369 I'm well aware but for purposes here, im using the word orthodox rite as compared to the Catholic papist rite.

[@sincerethoughts1912]

Love, love, love, love the Byzantine rite and Arabic chants! I now attend Melkite liturgies after a lifetime of Roman Catholicism.

[@segamon]

Same here. I got married Melkite. Crowning is so beautiful. 🤴👸

[@souhailalbatal]

Welcome to the both of you! We are happy to have you in our parish 💛✝️

[@hugoguzman4985]

I have severe ADHD, and I can't tell you how much of a blessing finding an Eastern (Melkite-Greek) church near me! It's true, the Divine Liturgy keeps me engaged and prevents my mind from wandering as much as it does in Roman masses.

[@lubormrazek5545]

as a fellow ADHDee I'll give the eastern one a shhot too - I believe it's the ruthenians at my place

[@ChristianEphraimson]

You might enjoy an orthodox church if you enjoy a soulful liturgy

[@nicksterwixter]

I think the solution is to slowly incorporate Traditional reverence back into Novus Ordo Masses at local parishes. This has nothing to do with the Novus Ordo liturgy itself. I think the biggest part is educating the congregation, because most of the irreverence I hear people complaining about is simply innocent ignorance. The thing you have to remember is: Most of us younger Catholics have a better understanding of the faith than our parents' generation does. Why? 1) We have accesses to more resources (i.e. the internet) to better and more fully understand our faith, which is often infinitely superior to the lackluster Catholic education our parents' generation received. 2) If you're a young Catholic, chances are good that you're here because you understand the faith reasonably well and made up your mind to follow it, and not because going to Church is something you're "expected to do" by society (quite the opposite actually). This means that statistically, even though our parents' generation outnumbers us in terms of practicing Catholics, your average young Catholic likely has a better understanding of the teachings of the faith. Regardless, I think it's super important to extend Christian charity when you see someone doing something you perceive to be irreverent. Most people just don't know. I think better education would go a super long way. And I think many of these things will rectify themselves over time.

[@justinjustinjustin10]

You hit the nail right on the head. I couldn't have put it better myself. Honestly I wish we did all the "actions" of the traditional Latin mass but with the mass in the native tongue wherever you might be

[@tylermillsap8463]

nicksterwixter Might I suggest you read the Ottaviani Intervention. You can find a pdf online or listen to it being read on KZbin, maybe a 1/2 hour investment.

[@ХристоМартунковграфЛозенски]

Very true. Especially the second point - you're a convert, and if you took your time and were serious enough you have already a basic understanding before even becoming a catechumen.

[@Sherlock910]

This is one of the reasons why I love what they've been doing at St. John Cantius Parish in Chicago. Exactly what you're referring to is precisely what St. John Cantius has been doing since the late 1980s when the former pastor Fr. Frank Phillips, CR was brought in by the Congregation of the Resurrection. They've been celebrating the Tridentine Mass alongside the Novus Ordo. And the results of that have been incredible. Literally, the motto of the parish and the congregation (founded by Fr. Phillips) is "Restoring the Sacred". So, that revitalization has been occurring on minor levels for some time now. I only wish that more communities would do that. It sucks that there is so much polarization between those who only want the TLM and nothing else, and those who despise the TLM and everything that has to do with the TLM.

[@justinjustinjustin10]

@@amg2598 I don't know enough about that stuff

[@ivanos_95]

As an Orthodox, I see Byzantine-Catholicism as the shield against secularization within the Roman-Catholic Church, and the bridge for reunification of our churches, if only the Byzantine-Catholics reached the Papacy, or became the leading order within the Roman-Catholic Church.

[@davidodoherty8494]

Why are we using the term "convert" when it's all one holy catholic and apostolic church?

[@Hiwatt100W1]

Good point. You're right, it is one Holy Catholic Church- Eastern Rites included.

[@vocationofreason9294]

My guess would be just a difference in semantics

[@harryw2903]

And “Roman Catholic” (which is a Protestant term), rather than just “Catholic”. Also using “Roman Catholic” when they mean “Latin Rite (Western) Catholic”.

[@gjergjkastrioti1688]

There is actually a formal change in Rite, from the Latin to the Byzantine or Maronite or Coptic, etc. That is what he is speaking about. It changes your character and particularly that of your children. "As your father worshiped, so do you" is the saying (paraphrased).

[@Jondave]

Exactly right. Canonical jurisdiction changes are NOT conversion. This term hints of sub surface schimatism

[@scygnius]

I’ve never been to any Eastern Catholic services, but I used to attend Antiochian Orthodox Divine Liturgies, and man. It was truly beautiful. I recommend to you all to at least attend one Eastern Catholic or Orthodox service. The Eastern rites are truly beautiful.

[@DigitalLogos]

​@HolyHammerOfByzantium I went to a Melkite church today for my first Divine Liturgy, and it was wonderful. The only downside was that there was almost no one there. You have this wonderful liturgy in the middle of a neighborhood and no one's going. It's sad.

[@TsarOrthodoxBro_II]

I'm a Maronite Catholic. The traditional feeling is absolutely amazing, I highly recommend you to go to at least 1 mass in your life! I literally cannot go to a normal Latin mass anymore as it doesn't provide that same feeling.

[@Scott-rf1un]

​@@DigitalLogosit's because people are logically realizing God isn't real and religion is not needed were all happy without it

[@ChristianEphraimson]

Sad to hear you left the church. Hope you're enjoying your time in the catholic churches.

[@Scott-rf1un]

@@ChristianEphraimson I practice Hinduism now

[@bernadettegalvin7768]

Is "convert" really the right term for switching between catholic churches and rites?

[@kzizzles8329]

I always heard the word 'transfer'

[@redimerfortitudo]

Bernadette Galvin Terminology needs to be more precise here to avoid misleading people. He is not a convert. He did not go from one Church to another Church. He is still a ROMAN CATHOLIC. All Eastern Catholic rites are ROMAN Catholic as they are ALL under Rome via The Pope. What he needs to say is not the Roman vs Eastern Churches - in all honesty that’s Protestant talk. He needs to say Latin Rite vs Byzantine Rite. People don’t like to say Latin Rite anymore because the Novus Ordo has practically abolished it - even though it was NEVER supposed to. Latin was and is supposed to be retained at least in the Ordinary IN THE NOVUS ORDO. Let me say it again: He didn’t convert. He switched from Latin Rite to Byzantine Rite and has remained a (Roman) Catholic. Really the term Roman Catholic is a redundancy - one cannot be Catholic without Rome. So please get your terminology straight - the both of you. This is just as bad and confusion as making a distinction between Catholics and Christians (Protestants).

[@borneandayak6725]

Switching rites is not coverting, its still the same Catholic Church with different rites.

[@borneandayak6725]

@@redimerfortitudo Catholic and Protestans, because both Catholic and Protestant are Christians.

[@KurtGodel432]

More like “red pilled”

[@Jeem196]

I come from a family of mixed roman catholic, maronite, melkite, and orthodox and I appreciate their differences and their beauty. But there is something truly heavenly about the eastern liturgy. It isn't exactly the looks or the sounds by themselves which are indeed glorious, but it's like you said...it's the attitude. I want to be as close to heaven on earth as I possibly can.

[@taramckinley7585]

May I ask for a moment of your time? I'm a Protestant, but I love the Catholic Church. In all seriousness, can you tell me the difference ( generally, briefly of course:) between the maronite, melkite, Orthodox, and Roman ( liturgies?)- I literally have only heard of Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholicism- recently the Byzantine Church Matt has spoken of, so forgive my ignorance. I love my Brothers and Sisters in Christ and want to understand our differences, so I ask as many questions as I can get answers to and I listen to Christian Apologetics, different Christian podcasts ( none of the unorthodox progressive stuff of course) and I love Gregorian Chant. I thank you for your time, for listening to me, even if you can't answer. 😊God Bless you.

[@sebastiansaavedra192]

@@taramckinley7585 Of those 4 groups, Melkites and Orthodox use the same liturgy (Byzantine Rite), Roman Catholics use the Tridentine Latin Mass or Novus Ordo, and Maronites use a liturgy called West Syriac Rite. It's difficult to explain all the differences but I'd say the biggest one is language and probably the choir. For language, the Byzantine Rite can be done in Greek, Church Slavonic, and vernacular as well. The Tridentine Mass is in Latin and the Novus Ordo in vernacular, I don't know what language the West Syriac Rite uses. I mentioned the choir too since some rites have singing only but the Novus Ordo has musical instruments as well. I would suggest watching a video of all these rites to see directly see how these liturgies look and differ from each other. Hope this was helpful.

[@josephspiller1683]

Pray for me. I have lots of the same feelings toward the Novus Ordo. However, I am a seminarian, and there is a lot of emphasis on not changing so much that the people are scared away. There is just so much that I see that is so irreverent that needs to be changed immediately. Part of me wants to leave for something more traditional, but another part of me wants to stay to help change. Please pray for me.

[@jesusacuna309]

I am planning on going to seminary and I have the same dilemma. But then I think about joining the FSSP or some other traditional group, and I think back to the fact that the Novus Ordo parishes need help the most

[@shealinweston9750]

I converted to Catholicism about 5 years ago and it has taken me that long to really delve deeper into my faith. I attend, and have only ever attended, Novus Ordo liturgies, but hearing and researching different masses and lost traditions, I cannot WAIT for the young seminarians and priests to come in and hopefully change things. I don’t want “comfortable” or quick anymore and I think that’s true for anyone who truly cares and is going to mass for the right reasons (aka not just because it’s a family tradition). I think priests need to start taking ahold of their parishes and setting it apart from the world rather than keep it “easy” so that people don’t get scared off. If the statistic is true that 70% of Catholics don’t believe in the true presence, then “ease” is NOT what we need. We need reverence and tradition - especially in the Novus Ordo. You are in my prayers!!! Please don’t feel discouraged or hopeless in your calling. So many young people like myself desire the same things you do and I think it’s the new priests and seminarians that will really change it all. This may sound rude, but if people are scared off because the Mass becomes more reverent (or less secular) then the Church wasn’t doing it’s job. Keep going and God Bless!

[@fiveadayproductions987]

Forget about comfort. Your first duty is to celebrate the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass with the greatest dignity possible. The Liturgy should conform the minds of the people, not the Liturgy be confirmed by the minds of the people. Even if you only know to say Novus Ordo, make it the most beautiful Mass you can! God Bless you in your journey through seminary. You have my prayers.

[@markv1974]

@@jesusacuna309 regardless of liturgy or language.. the focus is Christ. Use latin songs if you want in novus ordo.. or in adoration of the host.. we do that here too..

[@zealousideal]

You won’t change it. Better to go where u feel led.I left Novus Ordo too.

[@anthonylangford7797]

I discovered the eastern Catholic church while on pilgrimage in Lourdes years ago. There is a beautiful little Ukrainian Catholic church outside the hustle and bustle of the pilgrim area and I became overwhelmed by the liturgy. A friendly priest there explained all I could understand at the time. I've attended the nearest Byzantine Catholic church to me (50 miles away) a few times but wish there was a Byzantine Catholic church in my home town as i would attend there as much as my Latin rite parish. I love the Jesus prayer.

[@ΓραικοςΕλληνας]

How you explain that Byzantine,-eastern cathollics have Gregory Palamas in there EUCHARIST as a saint. Carholics see that Eucharist as the one universal Eucharist of there church.But Gregory Palamas calls latins for the filioque as satan acting and blindly following him. So explain

[@MonsignorHagood]

I’m Syriac Catholic and I live in Nebraska. Trust me, I feel the pushing aside by all Catholics. It’s pretty bad here.

[@ragnardanneskajold1880]

Jayden Hagood - that’s terrible, and probably done out of ignorance. I hope your Priest takes the time to educate your fellow parishioners- you are always welcome in a pew next to me!

[@Sol.gg-x]

Crazy to see another Nebraskan here lol

[@segamon]

Feeling pushed aside is why I cannot go to the two Roman Rite churches closest to where I live. It is a big reason why I have returned and remain in the Melkite Rite even though I have to drive over 30 minutes to get there. It really is sad, too, because this trend has resulted in many people leaving the Catholic faith.

[@anonymoususer450]

I periodically go to a Byzantine Catholic church, it is great

[@Philokalia12]

I am dismayed by the nit-picking that I have observed in certain groups in the Church. I was a Catholic by birth until I was 15 when I became an Evangelical Protestant. I was a theology major at an evangelical college and attended a conservative and orthodox (theologically) church for the next 40 years. Sure, what kept me from going back to Catholicism was the nominal Catholics who represent themselves as Catholics and when they open their mouths you realize that they wouldn’t even qualify as Buddhist. In my mid-50s I was invited by a group of Presbyterian seminary graduates to join a group called The House of St. Michael the Archangel. The group led by a Presbyterian Seminary grad who had a PhD in Patristics (the Church Fathers) read and discussed the writings of the Fathers. The more I read the Fathers the more I had a desire to attend Mass and a hunger developed for the Eucharist. After several years and a Catholic men’s group with an incredibly gifted and knowledgeable Deacon I again called myself a Catholic.....40 years after becoming an Evangelical. I am not a convert or a revert.....I will say very honestly that my 40 years as an Evangelical were a part of my pilgrimage and coming back to Catholicism was God calling me from one of his vineyards to another. The richness of my Evangelical experience informs my Catholicism everyday and my Catholicism is more evangelical and robust because of that 40 year part of my journey. I weep with Jesus when I hear and see any sincere and orthodox follower of our Lord look down at another. I believe the Pharisees had mastered that practice. Let’s not repeat their mistakes. It compromises our witness to a desperately broken world. I love the eastern rites even though I practice the Roman rite. BTW....several others in the House of St. Michael were “called” to Orthodoxy and several more to Catholicism. Hallelujah!

[@Ericviking2019]

Philokalia12 Well Said!!

[@peaceandlove544]

Well said!!! Our Lord is in masses and churches of all rites

[@RuralRouteStepChild]

@@Philokalia12 hey Phil, do you think Jesus is present at Protestant Christian church services?

[@karolinaska6836]

Balm to my ears. Thank you for pointing out why it matters how the Mass/parish resonates with us, especially when trying to raise children in the faith.

[@michaelcaza6766]

I came back to the church this year at 34, I was away for 17 years. I had experiences in orthodoxy and various Protestant denominations (including graduating from a Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada Bible college in 2019). Theologically and spiritually speaking I am Byzantine, and after only a few weeks in the Roman rite this year, I have joined a Ukrainian Catholic Church. COVID-19 gave me a chance to re-examine my theology, John 6 brought me back to the church, but the spirituality and theology of the east brought me home to the “Eastern Lung of the Church.”

[@richlopez5896]

The Ukrainian Catholic Churches are beautiful

[@StephenStollmeyer]

Going to my first Byzantine liturgy this weekend. I’m very excited! I’ve literally cried over this but I can’t resolve what I am seeing in the Roman Catholic Church any longer.

[@kristahikes125]

Me too! Going to my first Byzantine Divine Liturgy in a long time. I love TLM but the drive is further. I need more reverence than even some of the better NO parishes.

[@johnharkness6304]

I went over to the Tridentine Mass in 2007, I know both rites pretty well at this stage. I attend the post VII Mass when on holidays and so on, when I've no other choice. But for me, and I stress, for ME, the Tridentine rite is an absolute treasure. I drive to Mass, about half an hour including finding a place for the car in a busy city (Lyon France ) I'm not saying for a moment that you won't find a beautifully celebrated N.O Mass, I know there are some, I just haven't seen many, but that's my experience, attending Mass in France and Ireland. Thanks for your videos Matt, pray for Cardinal Pell.

[@urusledge]

Are Catholic Tridentine Masses always in Latin, or are they in the local vernacular sometimes as well? If the latter is true was it true before VII?

[@johnharkness6304]

@@urusledge As a general rule, the Gospel and Epistle and of course the sermon are in the vernacular. I think, but I'm not absolutely sure, that before Vatican II the Gospel and Epistle were read in Latin. In some Churches today where the ancient rite is used, the Gospel/Epistle are read both in the vernacular and latin. For some Prayers and hymns the vernacular (in my case French ) is used.

[@jasonroberts2249]

I had the same exact experience. didn’t understand what a real liturgy was until I started going to a Melkite (Eastern Catholic) Church.

[@Chriss2229]

I went to a Byzantine Catholic Church today. I was so blown away. I will to another Divine Liturgy 2 hours later.

[@ΓραικοςΕλληνας]

See the hypocrisy there. They have in there Eucharist as a saint Greogory Palamas. But Gregory Palamas calls the Latins as satan obeying and blindly following him, for the filioque

[@baoduong2203]

During my adventure back into the Catholicism I was drawn to the eastern liturgy due to my time with the orthodox. The NO mass didn’t seem like it contained the fullness of the faith to me in comparison to the Divine Liturgy of the orthodox. The orthodox speaks heavily on all of the saints and their writings. While the NO mass had no mention of the saints at all! Then I attended the traditional Latin mass and I fell deeply in love. Latin is beautiful, and the homilies are great. The priests share about the writings and the lives of the saints that I wish NO mass does.. I would say TLM is more “manly”.. I’ve been attending the TLM for about a year now.. I haven’t been to a byzantine rite in a while. I recently attended one and I noticed how much I appreciate the silence. The byzantine Rite has no moments of silence and its continuously singing throughout the liturgy.

[@BecomeAnOrthodoxChristian]

Welcome home! You're the third youtuber I found now who's converted to Catholicism from eastern orthodoxy.

[@todd7447]

@HolyHammerOfByzantium a problem I have is that many Eastern catholics talk about the Liturgy without mention of the Sacrifice of christ renewed on the altar. While the tlm is all about the sacrifice

[@ΓραικοςΕλληνας]

@HolyHammerOfByzantium how you have saint Greogory Palamas in the Eucharist as a saint when he says those that follow the filioque are satan acting and blindly following him.

[@saulmoran7369]

Just went to my local Byzantine Catholic parish. I've only seen such beauty in a church since I had gone to reverent cathedrals in Mexico.

[@speedygonzales9993]

Been attending TLM for 7 yrs. No longer have the inclination to go back to NO.

[@Sherlock910]

No issues there, friend. Honestly, I'd do the same whenever I move out of my parent's house in the future. However, I would never want that to be the reason why I stopped talking to my friends/acquaintances who went to the Novus Ordo. Don't let the negative folk in the TLM cloud your views on the people who attend the Novus Ordo. That's something I've learned from being here on the internet for a while.

[@Maccabee444]

I've been to an sspx mass a couple of times is that same as tridentine?

[@speedygonzales9993]

@@Maccabee444 YES! YES! YES! Tridentine! SSPX, FSSP, & ICKSP, all tridentine!

[@Maccabee444]

@@speedygonzales9993 thanks for that, I used to go to tridentine years ago my neighbour used to take me after I converted but I'm sure we used to respond in Latin (obvz) but the one I've been lately we just sit kneel or stand quietly that's why I was confused 🤔🤓

[@speedygonzales9993]

@@Maccabee444 Not sure whether you are referring to 'Low Masses' (Missa Privata) or not. Low Masses are always 'low key'. Missa Cantata & Missa Solemnis are always awesome!

[@davidodoherty8494]

St. Anne's Catholic church in Belmont, Perth Western Australia is TLM and Trad but I've never once met anyone there with the slightest hint of anger. Actually the the most beautiful Christian community imaginable. Please pray for Fr Michael Rowe and his parish because he has a lot of weight on his shoulders right now!

[@luciadeloach9932]

I honestly think you have to do what is best for you and your family. My husband and I are expecting our first child and i can’t help but remember how much I hated mass as a child growing up at a novus ordo parish that lacked passion or besuty. I feel as a parent I have an obligation to my child to do my absolute best to take them to a parish that inspires their faith and can help showcase the greatness and majesty of God.

[@carld3218]

Matt's comment about Tridentine Catholics (some, NOT all) appearing angry hits home. I know many charitable Tridentine Catholics, but a significant minority have been judgmental to Novus Ordo types like me. Earlier today hearing Father Loya speak, plus listening to Matt and Father O'Loughlin here, make me curious about the Byzantine Rite.

[@ethanmcclain7570]

I'm on my journey into the Catholic Church now, and I already know I want to be Byzantine Catholic. I greatly appreciate and respect both forms of the Roman Rite, but I spent two and a half years exploring Eastern Orthodoxy, so the Byzantine Rite is really my spiritual home.

[@ethanmcclain7570]

@HolyHammerOfByzantium I've been attending a Roman Rite parish for the time being, and I love it, it's a great parish. My real journey into Byzantine Catholicism will begin when I move to the Charlotte area in about a year. I'll be Ukrainian Catholic.

[@ΓραικοςΕλληνας]

@@ethanmcclain7570 explain then how Byzantine Catholic Eucharist has in it Gregory Palamas as a saint when he says the carholics are blindly following satan...

[@CatholicByzantineEvangelist]

Happy to have you Matt!

[@user-7lf7w]

I don't know is there something better than being blessed as a priest, giving sacraments of confession and eucharist, and having wife at home who is also devoted.. Amen

[@jessicaaydelette7275]

Dr. Peter Kwasniewski said in a lecture a few months back that "we need to be joyful Traditionalists." Thank you for confirming that, Matt. There are absolutely some very grumpy folks at the EF and that's not what is going to draw people into the beauty of it but joy will. I think sometimes reverence can come accross as grump.... Or maybe it's just a form of Liturgy that's more appealing to introverts?

[@iliya3110]

I experienced traditionalism for 6 months and it basically made me depressed. It was hard to be joyful when all you heard from people is that the Church is in ruins and we’re in a pre-apocalyptic wasteland. I wouldn’t recommend anybody to be a traditional Catholic. The tradition is beautiful but there is a bad spirit that has infiltrated it unfortunately. I eventually went Eastern Catholic because God drew me there. The culture and spirituality of the East is incredible as well. People were actually joyful, a fruit of the Holy Spirit. To lack joy as a Christian is simply not a good sign. I have sincere doubts that the traditionalist movement is a movement of the Spirit after my experience in it. No judgments on traditionalists whatsoever. It’s just that the evil one has infiltrated the movement.

[@stevenstuart4194]

@@iliya3110 "It’s just that the evil one has infiltrated the movement." There's plenty of this all around. Eastern Catholicism has a host of its own problems no less influenced by Satan. The traditionalist Catholics are in principle correct, but as a people no less subject to temptation and sin, will be marked by particular shortcomings. I'm a Protestant convert who is now a traditionalist Catholic and I go to an ICKSP parish. It's one of the most joyful churches I've ever experienced -- and it's easily 800 people strong. God is doing wonderful things with and through traditionalists; don't count us out. Pax!

[@iliya3110]

@@stevenstuart4194 Glad to hear your parish is healthy and joyful. :-) God bless

[@Nicole32094]

I converted in 2020 and I don’t regret it. My family and I have a deal. We go to the Vesperal Divine Liturgy at Christmas and the Roman Catholic Mass for the Triduum.

[@dangelotringali7527]

The Syriac Catholic Church and the Antiochean Sea were also established by Peter. That is why they are my favorite. Actually it uses the oldest form of Mass, the Saint James Quorbono. This is coming from an Italian.

[@susandubanowich4527]

I’m discerning going Byzantine from the Roman Rite. A lot of my Roman brothers and sisters confront me with confusion and sadness (maybe with a little hatred) because they believe that the Roman rite is the true church. I want to be Byzantine so badly.

[@drybrucke1]

They’re both the true church, so don’t worry man. It’s a different liturgy, but they’re both in communion with Rome, have valid sacraments and clergy, etc. etc. They’re both part of the true church, so as long as you’re going to a Eastern Catholic Rite Parish and not converting outright to Eastern Orthodoxy, you’re still part of the true church. As long as it’s within Catholicism, it’s basically just down to preference. If you wanna join the Byzantine Rite, by all means do so, you’re still saved if you do lol

[@mysticalc.o.g.6678]

Yeah I've heard things like Latin is the only language the Mass should be said in, and that it is a superior language, but the peopel who say that are misguided and probably uninformed. It's easy when you discover something new to get a little fanatical about it. Hopefully more Traditionalist Romans learn about the other Rites.

[@anthonylangford7797]

Susan, I'm in the same boat. Be interesting to learn about your spiritual journey.

[@richlopez5896]

Go wherever you chose. They are BOTH Catholic. Catholics can receive communion in ALL Catholic Rites. Latin Church with Latin liturgical traditions Eastern Catholic Churches with particular liturgical traditions: Alexandrian liturgical tradition: Coptic Catholic Church Ethiopian Catholic Church Eritrean Catholic Church Antiochian liturgical tradition: Maronite Church Syrian Catholic Church Syro-Malankara Catholic Church Armenian liturgical tradition: Armenian Catholic Church Chaldean or East Syrian liturgical tradition: Chaldean Catholic Church Syro-Malabar Catholic Church Byzantine liturgical tradition: Albanian Byzantine Catholic Church Belarusian Greek Catholic Church Bulgarian Greek Catholic Church Byzantine Church of Croatia, Serbia and Montenegro Greek Byzantine Catholic Church Hungarian Greek Catholic Church Italo-Albanian Catholic Church Macedonian Greek Catholic Church Melkite Greek Catholic Church Romanian Church United with Rome, Greek-Catholic Russian Greek Catholic Church Ruthenian Catholic Church Slovak Greek Catholic Church Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church

[@Harrison_SamsonCertified]

Listen to your friends

[@dominicdinovo1713]

I have been going often myself. It is beautiful. Find myself making the sign of the cross in the Byzantine fashion even at the NO.

[@Cahrub]

It's interesting as a protestant to hear this video that reflect a similar problem of finding a good community of believers. Your hearts reflect my own, I want to be surrounded by others who want Christ, not just the rituals and 7-11 service line.

[@amg2598]

I disagree that seeking out a more reverent Mass when you have children is necessarily out of weakness. I think it's good to frame it that way for others so as to not to scandalize, but there's something to be said about thinking about what *your children* need.

[@colin.charbel]

Love my Maronite tradition ❤ Every Rite is beautiful and unique. All Rites must be preserved and respected as they all make up part of the one body.

[@eatingchaos]

This is precisely why, after attending dozens of Novus Ordo Masses, I didn't become Catholic until I encountered the Ordinariate ("Anglican Use") Mass: mystery, beauty, majesty, and reverence.

[@charliej600]

‘A refugee from the sea of banal liturgies’. that’s exactly how I’d describe myself too. I wouldn’t go to a Novus Ordo, unless there wasn’t a TLM within a 2 hour drive. Luckily I live in Brisbane Australia where we have an amazing Traditional Latin community!

[@peaceandlove544]

you are lucky you have a choice. I go to a NO mass, that has a beautiful choir, where the priest is so humble and God loving and God fearing and wise and knowledgeble and a great congregation and of course Communion is given on the mouth. No need to look elsewhere.

[@philhurtado685]

My first Divine Liturgy I heard my grandmother say I love you. She passed away years ago.

[@markrome9702]

As a Catholic convert I don't understand all the disparaging of the NO Mass that takes place constantly. I worship God at the NO Mass because there is a true sacrifice and God is present. If you get distracted because of the style of liturgy, maybe it isn't the liturgy's fault.

[@DF_UniatePapist]

The Novus Ordo mass was created by a suspected Freemason who said that he wanted to make the Mass seem more Protestant. The Novus Ordo is not a truly Catholic liturgy. Of course it is a valid Mass, but just because it is valid does not make it authentically Catholic or pleasing to God.

[@markrome9702]

@@DF_UniatePapist So, Christ's sacrifice is not pleasing to God?

[@amg2598]

Both of you below have some good points, it's not really the best venue to hash this out. I think a small scale Liturgy that's more evangelical Protestant influenced isn't a bad thing. There's areas to respect of their tradition and many are part of the Church but in unintentional schism being born into it. It could be used in mission territory. It could be a bit like the Anglican Ordinariate

[@Mari_Oh]

Please don't let this disturb your faith. You'll find that this traditional extremism really only occurs online. I never even heard the term "novus ordo" referring to the normal Mass at almost every Church, until I went online. The Mass is just the Mass, and it's beautiful and it's holy and it's just a significant as you know it is in your heart. As far as the abuses these same people are constantly upset about, I can only remember seeing very few abuses at the normal Mass. Of course I don't like irreverence, but it happens rarely and it seems that when it has happened it has been dealt with rather swiftly because no one likes irreverence. Please don't let this constant drama draw you away from the faith. This infighting is most certainly a tool of the devil. Enjoy your beautiful Catholic faith and don't listen to the very loud voices online. They don't "own" Catholicism. Watching this actually made me realize it's just time to turn off the phone to KZbin and live life without it.

[@gracevandersloot530]

EXACTLY👏👏👏. It’s okay to have a preference of style and aesthetic but when u disparage another LEGITIMATE and SACRED liturgy because you care abt ur preferences and aesthetics more than the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass; that’s wrong and makes me think ur going to the Holy Mass for the wrong reasons

[@kaseypedroza3175]

I decided to chose the Byzantine rite for my family and I for 2 reasons 1 they always have both species for us to receive in the Eucharist. 2 my children are not denied life with in them.

[@MikePasqqsaPekiM]

Reading some of the comments below, I think it’s important to pay attention more to overall context than to try and pick out individual words. The use of the word “convert” is unfortunate, but I think in at least three different instances during this short video the Father clarified that he was not leaving the Catholic Church but simply changing Rites within her. Saint Paul warns us about falling into disagreements over semantics. If we take the 8 minutes, 24 seconds to watch the video, his position is clear. Why did he use that word? Because he is trying to convey the powerful effect the Divine Liturgy had on him, and that he did enter into Eastern Catholicism. It was more than merely switching parishes. I imagine after this video he probably realized his choice of words was a bit misleading. He admitted as much in the video. I enjoyed the brief exchange on changing liturgical traditions, and I appreciated this priest’s testimony and viewpoint. Love this channel!

[@eamonob84]

I don’t like the word “convert” to describe changing Rites. It’s the same Church; just a different form of spirituality and liturgy.

[@kpn5000]

@@th3wr3ck I disagree, I was raised in both rites, and still worship in both. My father was RC, mother BC. Both lungs are vital to the CC.

[@zeketaton5560]

I go to NO for Saturday vigil and Divine Liturgy on Sundays. Until I know where God is calling me long term, I feel like I need both.

[@ThePhilosorpheus]

Im a 100% with Matt, and its quite logical if you think about it. Nobody goes to Church to enjoy themselves or seek entertainment. If you want that, you can go to a concert or watch TV. You go to Church to seek God in a spirit of devotion. The novus ordo it seems to me often kind of defeats the very reason why we seek the Church in the first place...

[@Theescapist_87]

I go to a parish that does a borderline protestant worship-style NO mass and I am really considering going to the local Ukranian Greek Orthodox Church once I get a new car and can drive again. My parish priest just told me at RCIA he rarely prays because he's more of an intellectual and it shows during mass. No forethought is put into the music which leaves the church women scrambling to find songs before mass, thr mass is rushed, and he straight up told me he would preach more about social issues during the homily if the congregation would let him get away with it.

[@justanotherlikeyou]

As an Orthodox Christian I thank God that no matter where I go in the world I can be confident that I am attending the same Divine Liturgy in any Orthodox Church I might visit. Even if I don't know or speak the language being used I can still understand what is going on and can fully participate.

[@kpn5000]

Is switching from Roman Catholic to Byzantine Catholic really a "conversion"? All a RC must do is file a "change of Rite" form with his diocese. I wouldn't call that a conversion, both are catholic.

[@adolphCat]

The difference between an Eastern Rite Church and a Latin Rite Church is not just different Liturgical practices. You have also gone from the authority of one Bishop to another. Also if a Latin Rite Catholic switches to an Eastern parish, his immediate Patriarch is not the Pope of Rome, but the Patriarch of the Church he joins. It is true to say both Churches are Catholic, and ultimately under the Pope, but Eastern Catholics have their Patriarchs as an intermediate as the evey day governing affairs will be handled by the hiarchy of the individual Eastern Church formed under their Patriarch and his Bishops and priests. The Pope of Rome will not under normal circumstances be appointing Bishops in an Eastern Church. The Eclasiastical structure of the various Eastern Churches are semi- autonmus from the Eclasiastical structure of the Pope of Rome. Much like a self governing province has a semi- autonmus status within a state. Sure, ultimately they are still under the King of the state and subject to the legislature, yet they have self governing privileges and rights, that set them apart from the rest of the realm.

[@kpn5000]

@@adolphCat Understood, and, yes, you're correct. but, it's not a "conversion", it's a change of rites. I as a RC don't answer directly to the Pope either, I answer to my bishop. It's only a conversion if one goes from non-catholic to catholic, be it Latin or Byzantine. It's misleading and could be very confusing for those ignorant of the Church and her inner workings.

[@davidfigueroa8188]

kpn5000 It’s not a change of rite, it’s a change of Churches. And your bishop is under the Pope. Eastern bishops aren’t.

[@kpn5000]

@@davidfigueroa8188 Uh, yes it is change of rite, I've already asked my pastor and bishop about this. They say if I wanted to, I would complete a change of rite form, not a "change of Church" form. You're just wrong, David, and, you're implicitly denying that one rite is catholic. Byzantine Patriarchs and bishops ultimately answer to the Pope. More evidence for this is that I worship in both rites, grew up in both rites and just had a conversation with my byzantine priest and a few parishioners after DL. They all confirmed that they submit and are ultimately governed by the Pope, if it were ever to come to that.

[@davidfigueroa8188]

kpn5000 I am Byzantine Catholic... the Eastern Churches are CHURCHES. There are six RITES, and 24 CHURCHES. About ten Churches use the Byzantine rite.

[@marcokite]

i go to 'Tridentine' Churches as Fradd says but never encounter 'angry' people, what's this guy on? I would add though that if anyone is angry at the damage done to the Church by Vatican II then who can blame them? does Fradd want people to be indifferent? I love both TLM and Byzantine Catholic Liturgy.

[@thomasbegley630]

I agree with you Matt, I love the Tridentine Latin Mass and I’m interested in the eastern rite. My problem is they are at least 25 min away and the Latin mass is at about 11 and I work weekend night shift (fri-sun 6pm-6am). So I’m stuck with the novus ordo mass which is ok but I feel like it’s just going through the motions, the TLM feels more divine and the eastern rite I like the idea of there communion where you get both the bread and wine.

[@vonitaesse4307]

I was baptized Roman Catholic and in that rite for more than 25 years before I married into the Ukrainian Catholic Church. One main difference I found between the two rites is the availability of the non-married priest and the guilt I feel when I take time away from my priest’s family when I need advice and counsel.

[@margokupelian344]

Oh, I totally agree! I also want to be in a church that’s satiated with thick clouds of incense where I can bow to the ground and pour my heart out to the Lord and show Him my reverence and love for Him and enjoy His beauty and grandeur in the chanting and symbolism of the liturgy... Well, sometimes I try to create that kind of atmosphere at home, burning incense, lighting candles, praying, listening to Gregorian chants or Orthodox mass and meditate. It’s heaven...

[@krujuice]

We attend the Latin mass in my parish. We truly enjoy it. Even when my priest does the Novus Order he includes Gregorian chant and Latin hymns.

[@ZZZELCH]

Very interesting conversation. Your Orthodox brother in Christ.

[@gizmomogwai2434]

I was confirmed and baptized in Byzantine Catholic Church. My parents moved and went to a Roman Catholic Church afterwards. I didn’t have to convert.

[@BuckDanny2314]

Why is Father O'Loughlin saying he "converted" to Byzantine Catholicism? He did not switch religion.

[@markv1974]

I know right. Even a latin rite can go to eastern rite and have communion.

[@theresefrancis9283]

Melkite is very enjoyable too :). The Arabic mixed in is fun.

[@stpaulphillip]

You must've been a mature 17 year old. God bless you.

[@nukeplatine]

The Sunday Paskha is one good reason enough Like you repeat Khristos Anesti so many times you literally taste the resurrection

[@GregDavidson-wz8sc]

One thing I really like about the Byzantine liturgy is that communion is offered to infants.

[@5000okok]

I think that switching rites is not really that big of a deal. I mean you will still have full communion with the church and if your heart needs the beautiful mass why not go there. I don't want to sound uncharitable, but it is almost a good thing, that NO parishes die out. Maybe then something will finally change.

[@Krafanio]

The Eastern Roman rite ("Byzantine" Rite) is truly beautiful. I can't pick just one rite to be honest.

[@josephwatson4292]

Grew up novus ordo, so basically secular, been going to Latin mass for past year. Although miles better than the novus ordo, I have been contemplating switching my registration to a Byzantine Greek Catholic Church in my local area (fortunate to have both TLM and DL close by) for the same reasons. There is a great undertone of pride and anger that I sense from the clergy and laity in a lot of Latin mass parishes unfortunately.

[@todd7447]

Catholics should be angry about what's going on in the church today. We should be furious. Tlm communities have more people like this because they love the truth. Many ppl at byzantine parishes are just your average mass attender from my experience...few head coverings, ppl only show up on Sundays, little religious talk after liturgy etc. This is a big turn off for me

[@kristahikes125]

Yes! "When the priest stands up and says 'let's greet everybody'" it's not taken seriously. I feel this! I'm tired of some genuinely amazing priests still allowing these practices. Actually the bishops are suppressing traditional practices, so I can't entirely blame the priests. But either way, I need more reverence! Attending a nearby Byzantine church tonight. I don't think there's anything wrong with seeking out a more reverent liturgy. You can still be involved in your local NO parish ministries. I think it's healthy in fact to bridge the divide between "trads" and NO Catholics by staying involved in both.

[@m_m_m_m_m_m_m_m_m_m_m]

You didn't "convert". You simply adopted a different Rite, which is okay. It's one universal (Catholic) Church. The Pope is still your Supreme Pontiff.

[@fernandoricaurte9437]

Eastern Catholic rite is just one side of the coin that also has the Western Catholic rite. They both part of the Catholic church. Going to an Eastern Catholic liturgy on a Sunday fulfills any Western rite Catholic's Mass/Liturgy obligation. Eastern and Western Catholic rites/churches are in the same communion. I don't know so much about the status of mass/liturgy obligation fulfillment if a Catholic of any rite attends an Orthodox Liturgy, although they are truly beautiful and also have in common the liturgy that the Eastern Catholics use in worship.

[@erikmiller2514]

It is not a personal weakness to desire a reverent and beautiful liturgy or seek out a rite which can provide such things. The sad reality is that many Novus Ordo masses are neither good, beautiful, or (in many cases) true (think- the ever increasing rainbow liturgies.) It is any wonder that the majority of Catholics in the US now affirm LGBT ideology, abortion, and a symbolic understanding of the blessed Eucharist? The blame lies not with the laity, but the chaos handed down from the shepherds.

[@paulhudson4254]

Bingo, If all you do is hear the words and listen with the heart to the Divine Liturgy you’ll convert! ☦️

[@neacej1]

I prefer the Tridentine Mass myself. However, I do go to the Novus Ordo most of the time.

[@kimberlyriddell8574]

Joshua Neace there are so many abuses in the new order mass that it is often sacraligious. Often not valid under heretical priests.

[@neacej1]

While I have seen abuses, it is a heresy to say that a heretical priest affects the validity of the Mass being offered. Ever heard of the Donatists?

[@kimberlyriddell8574]

Joshua Neace there are three requirements for valid consecration. Matter form and intent. If any of the three are missing it's not valid. If the priest doesn't believe is he really forming the intention?

[@fredrios1402]

Come on folks ...the tridentine mass evolved...to the form you want to come back to now...

[@fredrios1402]

In other words....you going to a tradtionnal.rite was something that did not exist til the 4th and 5 the centuries

[@MakeTheStand]

the ONLY reason I'm not about to share this video to every RC friend I have is because of the characterization of having "converted" to byzcath. I don't need to make it even more confusing.

[@blakewolford8903]

Talking about needing to be pointed back to Jesus and over-prioritizing our Mother freaks me out as one just about ready to take the leap into the RCC

[@3ggshe11s]

I grew up in the post-V2 Novus Ordo church. I've seen modern churches with really tasteless architecture that doesn't inspire, and I've heard my share of irreverent happy-clappy guitar masses. But I've also seen the NO done very well, in older buildings that inspire a sense of awe, with the stained glass and choirs and organ and statuary and all the other bells and smells. I feel fortunate to have found a good church I can go to, and that my family will accompany me to (wife isn't Catholic, and it's not easy to get her to come to church). It's NO, but the priest, fresh out of seminary, gives fantastic homilies. It's not everything I'd want, but it's not bad. I found that church after spending some time with a Byzantine Catholic church. I love the Eastern liturgy. I even spent some time exploring Orthodoxy a few years back, before deciding that remaining in communion with Rome was more important to me. Part of me still wants to be Eastern Catholic. I feel deeply drawn to it. But since I can get my family to go to a NO church with me, that's home for now. The TLM is beautiful too, with all its reverent silence. But as Matt said, the TLM comes with the baggage of the people who attend TLM masses, with all the chips they carry on their shoulders.

[@peaceandlove544]

Which chips?

[@michelleg7]

People don't realize there are differeht catholic churches, like the eastern catholic churches which have beautiful liturgies some using the byzantine rite. I like the mozarab rites which is the hispana liturgy. As a catholic I wanted to learn the history and understand what our church encompass and that is definitely it. A catholic is a catholic regardless if eastern catholic or roman catholic.

[@thewhimsicalorthodoxoriental]

Quoting St. John Paul II, "the Catholic Church has two lungs... the East and the West." Visualize it as a ying/yang relationship...each functions independently but when both assets are accessed then the church offers a new, fuller manifestation that meets the needs of many more people.

[@lionheart5078]

The funny thing is, I've been to tridentine mass, byzantine, and novus ordo. And I personally like the novus ordo better, I can concentrate more personally. Latin and byzantine masses can be beautiful but the traditions were beautiful for me in a historical way, I didn't find them more reverant.

[@kyleschu]

really good to listen too this me to a t this why i love going to the Ukrainian Catholic church still under the pope 🙂

[@dsonyay]

Seems like more and more people attend Eastern rites. They are definitely beautiful and worth driving to. Nearest one to me is over two hours away.. so until something changes, I go to a TLM close by offered in my diocese. Or if anyone knows of an eastern catholic rite very close to Lafayette La, please reply.

[@pjsmith4369]

Interesting topic for me. My Father was RC, and my Mother was Ukrainian Catholic. I was baptized RC and went to RC elementary school - Latin Mass only - pre- Vatican II. Then, at 10 years old, my siblings and I were switched to the Ukrainian Catholic School that was closer to where we lived. We had attended both the Latin Mass and the Divine Liturgy throughout our youth. This was my experience: Didn’t understand a word of the Latin Mass. And didn’t understand a word of the Ukrainian Mass, but the Ukrainian mass was always longer. I had no idea that the Latin Mass was changed to English until I was 14 or 15 and attending an all girls Catholic High School. A priest came to say Mass and to my surprise, it was in English! I was thinking - is this is what we have been saying all these years? I thought it was lovely. I have never had a desire to hear the Mass in Latin. Would just bring up depressing memories for me. It took a few more years for English to be introduced into the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostym ( not that I or my 8 siblings had a clue what that title meant ). We sang and repeated all that we heard in both masses - totally clueless. Only when English was finally printed beside the Ukrainian script did we begin to appreciate the beauty of the Divine Liturgy. Now most of the nine have moved so Novus Ordo for all. I don’t think I have ever attended a disrespectful NO. I find it so much inclusive than the Latin Mass. I feel comfortable and love hearing everything in English. People are welcoming. ( Trust me - pre Vatican II was NOT welcoming ) You are both young so have not experienced the old order of things. I have a copy of the Divine Liturgy, and the prayers are simply beautiful, so I use it to pray with.

[@peaceandlove544]

I agree with you. And its a personal choice. I only speak English and want to understand all that is said. Love my parish, my priest, his homilies, my congregation, my choir. Of course he gives communion on the mouth. Our Lord is in all masses and catholic churches where good pastors and good sheep are present.

[@segamon]

I find the Latin Mass and Greek Divine Liturgy both wonderful. It is surprising that books containing the English translation were not available.

[@Mikemanify]

I’m the opposite. I can’t stand the Novus Ordo. The vast majority of them are very sloppy and irreverent. I also have met lots of people who say that they great experiences of the Church before Vatican II. I’m glad that people are now questioning the changes brought about (many of which are downright heretical) and that the Traditional Catholic Mass is growing despite the powers that be trying to repress. One day the Novus Ordo will be no longer. It just doesn’t produce the sufficient number of vocations and the Novus Ordo families contracept.

[@supergene256]

“If you’re a Western Catholic, stay in your Rite.” My point exactly... we need more Western Catholics staying here and promoting OUR tradition, not leaving for a different Catholic tradition... Let the Eastern Catholics do good in their own very beautiful tradition!

[@DF_UniatePapist]

If God calls someone to a different rite, who are you to say he’s wrong?

[@wilsonmelendez5699]

I will agree with your statement but sadly i can’t. Why? Because when the pastor, disagrees to follow the rubrics of the roman missal and want the mass to be more “welcoming” and parishioners lukewarmness enter in the equation, there is no worst feeling and thought of being unwelcomed and to be sought out.

[@JoshJimenez_]

At the end of the day I have love for all Catholics!

[@diegoavellanedamatteo9090]

I was baptized into the Byzantine Catholic Church because my parents really loved how they did baptism. After that, we just went to the Roman Catholic Church (western rite)

[@romapaul47]

Like the Byzantine Mass - QUESTION? - Why in the West do we only take the Host of Jesus but not the blood, while in the East it is both Body and Blood? How does the West navigate John 6 on this, no one has really been able to explain in detail to me. God Bless - thanks for any comments on this.

[@derechoplano]

You're so lucky. I have wanted so badly to go to a Byzantine mass or to a Tridentine mass for years. But there is none in the country I live. For me, it's Novus Ordo every week and I don't like it at all.

[@jjdoe9707]

What country do you live in? Look up Ukrainian Catholic Church. It's in many, many countries and they generally have mass in English at one time. Then im Ukrainian right after.

[@spidernymph8964]

Yes, plenty of people just want beautiful liturgy and real reverence and worship without all the anger and not to mention rejecting everything after VII.

[@argelbargel7680]

The eastern churches are always beautiful; alas, there aren't any very close to here.

[@vy7737]

Why they just don't become Orthodox. They are more close to Orthodox Church then Roman Catholic.

[@ElijahisMark9]

Jesus says not all are able to accept it-each must as he is given to Walk

[@paulhudson4254]

Sadly, The Byzantine Catholic Church and the Eastern rites are all that’s left of Catholicism, I’m thankful but have “no idea how they survived” the horror of Vatican II. 🌺☦️🌺

[@jjdoe9707]

Well, the Ukrainian Catholic Church, for example, survived because it has been mostly underground during Soviet times (so over 70 years). In the USA, Canada, and Europe it was active among the Ukrainian immigrant communities, and they were probably more inclined to keep with tradition, as it was a "little piece of home" so to speak. But then again, there is a strong sense of keeping tradition in those communities, including cultural traditions, and religion is very strongly weaved into the Ukrainian culture itself, so making the changes in mass and Catholic tradition, to some extent, could be perceived as a threat to to cultural and ethnic identity for those immigrant communities.

[@AndrD1406]

​@@jjdoe9707not over 70, it was only banned from 1946 to 1989, when st. John Paul II negotiated with Gorbachev. But you are right about what you are saying

[@PhilosophyOfNoa]

I can't see how a 5th century liturgy could be seen as "less true" or a sign of weakness compared to a mass from the 1960s or even the Tridentine mass issued in the 16th century... can anyone explain?

[@julienalonso22]

I went to a Divine Liturgy (i think Melkite and the I think UGCC also) before I ever went to TLM. To be honest I was about to jump ship. Then I finally made it to TLM. Thankfully the community is amazing so I never had to deal much with mad trads but it showed me I just wanted reverence not a change. I still love the east and usually agree with the theology more tho 😅.

[@user-mj4nc1lg4h]

nothing like the latin mass

[@ariston5433]

I am contemplating moving over to the Byzantine Rite of the Church simply because of many years of thinking about it. I do not wish to attend Mass any longer at churches where people allow their kids to run amok on the altar area, where there are female altar server, where my priest disobeys the bishop, where I am told to greet the parishioner in the next pew in the middle of Mass, or where the Blessed Sacrament is viewed as a cookie at the end of Mass as a job well done. I am tired of slovenly priests, guitar music and basically a secular mindset within the church, along with the liberals who want women priests ect😢…. I am done going to move over to the Byzantine Rite. There at least I feel when I have entered the church I am stepping onto Holy Ground.

[@Ray-fx2np]

I’m Ukrainian Catholic and I find the Eastern Rite MUCH more meaningful, spiritual and reverent than the Roman Latin Rite. When I go to liturgy I want to feel like I’ve been to liturgy. Icons, Incense, chanting and beautiful vestments to me are much more meaningful than watered down liturgies celebrated in churches that look like converted gyms.

[@ChristianEphraimson]

Hope you're safe. Hope you check out the orthodox church

[@anonymouscrank]

If ad orientem became normative at Novus Ordo masses, most, if not all, of the "nonsense" would end.

[@ElijahisMark9]

Seeking little seeds of goodness is good!

[@anthonybennett9611]

Are any of the "Pints for Aquinas" available??

[@anthonym.7653]

Do any Non-lukewarm catholics actually prefer the Novus Ordo? I can't imagine

[@psallen5099]

Here is my two cents. I go to the Latin Mass every Sunday for the past two years. I like it better because it is more reverent. It's a small FSSP parish but at the 10 AM mass the priest has 9 alter boys every Sunday and a full choir of about 25 people singing really beautiful Latin songs. Here is what I always found questionable about the new mass. 1.) It's inorganic. Instead of developing in increments over 1500 years like the traditional mass, it came all at once in 1969 and was a total about face on everything. 2.) It looks amazingly like a Lutheran worship service. Same vestments, rubrics, same songs, vernacular liturgy, lay people reading scripture, communion in the hand. I'm sorry, but I can't help thinking that it's not new, it looks Protestant. In my opinion if you want to "fix" the new mass I would say make it more Catholic. Bring back some Latin into the liturgy, traditional Catholic songs, and get rid of communion in the hand and eucharistic ministers.

[@peaceandlove544]

In Latin America NO mass are quite traditional without the latin

[@marcgray7317]

@HolyHammerOfByzantium I understand you’re saying that even in modern Rome the Rcc language is Latin. Yet it wasn’t always the case Greek was used for many years before Latin was ever used. For me personally i was attending Lm here in England on a Sunday once a week nothing else available sadly. I can’t get to that church i literally have no latin mass near me. I cant attend the modern mass for me its just a joke so im stuck cant go to any mass. There is a Greek orthodox church very near but im Rc all my life. That just shows how desperate i’ve become to consider orthodoxy!! Yet if there was no social media people would be attending the NO mass cos we wouldn’t know any different Even though i was baptised in Latin & made my first communion the old way after that it was novus ordo These are sad & hard times for many Catholics today It seems in america people have a choice of almost any rite you can think off. In England say London there is more choice outside of that its very different.

[@marcgray7317]

@HolyHammerOfByzantium Mate i hear you 100% The Lm i used to attend wasnt toxic at all very welcoming but there is nothing near me its NO or nothing or orthodoxy!! I feel in America it’s definitely more toxic nearly all the online organisations are American & all that feeds down to the people who attend mass. Like at most NO in England people aren’t even aware of this massive split with trads sedevacantists & the rest you mention whats going on & they haven’t a clue! That said the odd person will moan from time to time but mention Lm & they think you’re mad! Its just the Rcc is all i know i was brought up Rc all my family are its part of who i am So id feel really disloyal if i became orthodox but i also feel i dont have much choice these issues will take probably another 20/30 years maybe more to resolve & they may never get resolved could just get worse. Same sex marriage women deacons then priests The same sex thing will happen it already is in Germany & Italy & next pope will be even more modernist than current one Thats the saddest thing francis is literally destroying peoples faith when i describe our problems way i have i suppose i have no choice 👍🏼

[@marcgray7317]

@HolyHammerOfByzantium You said it take time & i will God bless sir 👍🏼

[@davidsisson1488]

I don’t think I ever went Byzantine but I have gone ballistic a couple of times.

[@followerofchristofthetrini1692]

It’s not just the liturgy. It’s also the unilateral addition of the filioque to the Creed, and pedocommunion, and the time/moment of reception the Sacraments of Initiation, and the proper order and understanding of the Sacraments of initiation. That’s why the Byzantine rings truer to my mind and heart than the Roman Church.