Why I Left Notion

[@trtotally]

Me: spends 16 hours learning and creating my Notion using mobile data. Also Me: Yeah, I should probably leave my Notion.

[@DannyHatcherTech]

It is so true! Notionis a great hiding place 😅

[@StevenMichels]

"I felt a great disturbance in the Force. As if millions of voices cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened."

[@DannyHatcherTech]

haha, the universe was shaking 😅

[@KimPinelli]

I‘m so proud of you, thinking about backups! It feels wired to watch a video of yours, after weeks of streams only (at least that‘s what it feels like). Love the thumbnail and the dramatic beginning :)

[@DannyHatcherTech]

aha yes I know, backups who mentioned them 🤔 yeah it has been great streaming and I imagine it being very different but videos are so fun to make. Definitely going to be getting back to them. The best thing about the video was i literally just recorded 40 minutes of me talking. The beginning was all down to the edit aha.

[@peggytrotman4173]

"Danny left Notion, the world has actually ended."

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Yes it has 😅

[@peggytrotman4173]

@@DannyHatcherTech : )

[@danielmuresan6779]

This will go to the "top 10 disasters since Biden started his mandate"

[@ErickEsthit]

@@danielmuresan6779 XD

[@karenrwalker]

I left Notion after spending days fiddling with it and it still not doing what I need relatively effortlessly. I went back to Keep for quick capture, and I'm testing Taskade for project management. I like that it provides a way to push its calendar dates directly into my Google calendar so easily. Like you, all the collaborative features wasted on me and often feel like bloatware.

[@DannyHatcherTech]

So true. It is funny, I think we can find hiding places from our work in tools and Notion is one of the best for that.

[@HomesickMac]

You're right on all points. I'm staying with Notion because note taking is only a part of what I need it for. For me it's the best and most configurable project (busines) managment app. Specially for client work because since Notion is no code and no definite UI, I can tailor it to my clients and their visual preferences. Yepp to all drawbacks and frictions, I can (still) ljve with 'em.

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Completely agree, for collaboration Notion is still amazing

[@howardjohnrobertson7097]

Yeah, when I have a problem it seems to always solve it, even keeping timesheets which has always been my nemesis. I rely on my python skills though to interpret the results for that and the backup takes so long... The backup failed message in this video scared me. If I get that, my business process relies on it. Gulp.

[@DannyHatcherTech]

@@howardjohnrobertson7097 yeah, not ideal if that does happen. It is something that happens often when I try to export...

[@robertmaxey5406]

I am very interested to see the upcoming Notion AI release. Perhaps these issues will be resolved. I am perhaps judging an app/system designed to be a web based app.

[@deepouterspace]

Notion is for team collaboration and Obsidian for personal usage.

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Completely agree, which I why I don't use it for most of my work 😁

[@MrToup]

Hehe I constantly switch between both applications. What miss in obsidian is mostly databases. Because what I like in Notion is the possibilities to present the same collection different ways. I am probably looking for how to use both without duplicating content or trying to solve this in obsidian using tags and internal linking.

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Yeah, I get that! I don't need databases but it would be nice.

[@fyremoon]

The problem with cloud apps is that you have to rely on everything being processed on their servers, and as your queries become more complicated and the number of users increases, this overloads their servers which serve content slower. If the app used localised storage and managed the processing itself, then there would be less processing needed by the cloud servers. Additionally, if the Internet went down that client can carry on using the service offline and sync when they go back online.

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Agreed! With the recent speed decreases across the board local storage has been something I have been looking for.

[@toolsontech]

It's a bit more complex, not all processing is done on the servers because a lot of work get's done by the browser (this is why some tabs like gmail take a lot of memory, it's basically a local app). Scaling shouldn't be an issue, because things like Amazon/Azure/Google allow unlimited servers to spin on demand, the main issue is usually central storage or the database. Getting that resolved, that's hard problems that every cloud app hits and takes time to properly fix

[@gailpowell9131]

Danny, this was a great video. I disagreed with a few points, but there is no denying the thought and care you have put in to identifying the friction points and what helps you and what doesn't. Bravo. That being said, can you narrowly filter the graph view in apps like Obsidian, etc.? I pictured you with 300 related notes and spending much more time on your dreaded trackpad moving your cursor around instead of using a filtered list to find the note you want more quickly. Let me know. I am curious.

[@DannyHatcherTech]

I can filter the graph view for anything. Most the time I use a local graph of things aswell. I could also just use the linked list... Certainly a different workflow.

[@godetarnaud1005]

Very interesting video ! I'm actually getting into Notion and I love it but I appreciate seeing the problems you can have with it especially after seeing all that praise. I'm sticking with Notion because this is what I needed to organize myself and I love learning all the kind of stuff you can make with it (I'm coming from OneNote so it's a big change for me especially the databases which are one of my favorite features) but I plan on trying Obsidian one day it looks amazing I'm just too lazy to get into it right now (and I'm already spending so much time configuring my lovely personal system in Notion so I'll try other tools after some months ^^). Anyway thanks for sharing all those informations and I'm looking forwar to your next videos :)

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Glad you have found something that gets you working. Yeah, I love Notion as a tool but there are cons to every tool so wanted to share some of them 😁

[@joshmoxeyarchives]

Totally understand your reasoning and pain points. Best of luck with whatever processes you design for yourself next on other applications! You've got a really cool way of creating.

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Thanks Josh, I don't think there is an all in one app. It is the toolbox you use alongside a system 😁

[@RubenLoan]

The good news is a lot of those things are going to be fixed when the API will come. By the way, these are a lot of things that they need to improve and fix or... all people will go. Anyway, you have to think that you are using Notion as a note-taking app and it's impossible to fight with specific tools that do this, it's like trying to beat Jira on task management for developers... Notion it's much more than this, it's a toolmaker and you can build anything you need (with some limits right now as we know haha but you can build anything), for example, I built my version of Google Drive inside Notion and I'm making a lot of things that are really cool in my daily flow. Notion is not the definitive tool, and I think that all people need to find the correct apps to use for each task that will adapt to your flow, not try to centralize all things in 1 place because this will never work.

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Completely agree and because it isnt the best at any one thing, I have found it to not quite fit for me anymore but still an incredible app.

[@RubenLoan]

@@DannyHatcherTech that's the thing, I'm using it to create things that other tools can't provide me at all but for specific things why break your brain?

[@chetachi_]

“Trying to beat Jira on task management…” what an insane analogy 🤣🤣🤣

[@CEOEntrepreneur]

Love the humour and editing on this video! Thanks for sharing Danny - completely get why you did this :) Tamer

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Thanks Tamer 😁 The bristish humour is the best humour 👀

[@paquinki]

I can see more obsidian videos coming 😃 that puts a smile in my face

[@DannyHatcherTech]

😁 maybe

[@paperlessmovement]

I literally spit out my coffee watching 03:10 and then see "Export Failed". 🤣It is Notion's way to tell you "F....off", we'll keep you in our system, but thanks for waiting hours for the export to fail. 🤣🤣

[@DannyHatcherTech]

haha exactly why I left ti in 😅

[@StephenMattison66]

I just started setting up Notion to work with a team on some aerospace stuff, and I am finding that many/most of the features in Notion are easy to set up fully customized into your own app using AppSheet coupled with Google Sheets. It's low-code, but using formulas in the App side & Sheet side of the App is very powerful. Recurring scheduling is no problem & AppSheet calendar IS Google Calendar. Also, all of your data from your App gets stored into a Sheet (or Excel, etc). I've built AppSheet apps that run my entire business & save me 10 hours per week just in data entry & sending out invoices. Now, done with a few clicks on my phone or desktop, no paper.

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Sounds awesome. Not sure if AppSheet is still Notion tho 🤷‍♂️ I am using Morgen for all my action management and Obsidian for knowledge management as those tools suit my workflow far better than Notion right now.

[@robertmaxey5406]

My opinion is Notion is trying to be everything to everyone. My issues are no Google calendar support and no offline support. If I can not update calendar through Notion or work offline, it is not a true productivity app. You can't even use notion unless you login. I have started using Notion but I am not happy.

[@DannyHatcherTech]

I moved to Obsidian 2 years ago now and it has solved my notes issue.

[@aftabvahanvaty2338]

Danny, maybe working with Zettlekasten would fix things in Notion. Easier system that does a lot to make the note-taking and writers (which we all are in one shape or form) more purposeful. Love to know what you think?

[@DannyHatcherTech]

It is a system I use parts of but the features available in Notion don't fit my use cases. Could I do it in Notion yes, but other tools are better.

[@aftabvahanvaty2338]

Which tool fits best for your Zettlekasten, Danny?

[@DannyHatcherTech]

@@aftabvahanvaty2338 I personally use obsidian but Roam research, Remnote, Hypernotes, Supernotes and many others work. I don't use zettl ID numbers in anyway and I don't have permanent notes either. My recent notetaking series goes over my philosophy a little better.

[@katsmith8263]

Isn't it a problem with all notes apps? The more notes I have there, the slower they are

[@DannyHatcherTech]

From my testing cloud based are much more limited but yes. But navigating a page taking 5-10 seconds to load each time is too slow for me. I have moved all of my pages from Notion to obsidian and the switches are instant.

[@katsmith8263]

@@DannyHatcherTech can't find obsidian on Android

[@DannyHatcherTech]

@@katsmith8263 it doesn't have a mobile app yet. It is still in beta.

[@vanderstraetenmarc]

Dear Danny, those were exactly the reasons why I asked you last week in your Sunday session on reviewing LogSeq, because to me, it best of two worlds together: Obsidian + Notion... As I wasn't present yesterday, did you come back on my request?

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Yes, I went through logseq on stream (twitch). It is a great app but it is a little clunky in places with some navigation irritations. But as a very new app it is very promising!

[@Gook2man]

Do you think logses is better than obsidian for you?

[@vanderstraetenmarc]

@@Gook2man yes, I really do, if it gets rid of its sometimes buggy behaviour. Biggest lack is learning and doc material...

[@Gook2man]

@@vanderstraetenmarc But why? Obsidian has many plugins like calendar, Anki export and more

[@DannyHatcherTech]

@@Gook2man I assume that was meant to be logseq and no not currently.

[@Ahmed_Ayoubier]

I watched the hole " making a second brain with notion" 3 hours video, and i mada all what you made and now i am seeing this video lol. so should i stop using notion ?

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Aha, use what you feel comfortable with. I used Notion for over 3 years before swapping. Notion Is a great place to start and for collaboration

[@Ahmed_Ayoubier]

@@DannyHatcherTech ok thank you i will use notion because i will go to college this year and i think it will help me a lot thank you again for that live stream.

[@ScullyPop]

The metamorphosis takes place in a cocoon, then a butterfly emerges.

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Very true! I am not sure what the butterfly will be 😁

[@NylaTheWolf]

I just found your channel! I like how all over the place you are haha, I have ADD and I’m the exact same way. But seriously I’m actually pretty interested in the fact you review apps on Twitch, I’ve been obsessed with note apps and things like that lately so it seems right up my alley! I subscribed! I also have been trying out Obsidian. I really like it but I also want to learn HTML because I’m having trouble using it efficiently.

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Twitch has been slow lately as my laptop is struggling 😅 Apps are always interesting but they can be hiding places for actual work. #guilty 😅

[@kasperkorea]

Very interesting assessment. You are a great KZbinr Danny. I really hope to see your channel grow. What do you think Notion should change to pull you back to it? Also, please buy a mouse. It is killing my OCD that you are operating your workstation without a mouse haha

[@DannyHatcherTech]

I haven't used a mouse in years 😅 For me to go to Notion for note taking, shortcuts, hotkeys, multiple panes, a graph view and vim.... Not something they are focusing on so 🤷‍♂️

[@chanaidan1595]

I just wanted to learn how exactly I should use Notion for templates and I tumbled into this.. Before I continue what should I do?

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Notion templates are really powerful and for each process you see that is repeated you can create a database or block template. As for tool choice, go with the tool that helps you get stuff done. Stick with Notion unless there is a big friction point.

[@TheArtisticBiker]

Ha! We all know you're the one that broke Notion with your "unlimited space" test.

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Yeah maybe got some ideas for the future.

[@piyushraj6927]

can you share me the link to that video?

[@DannyHatcherTech]

@@piyushraj6927 it is in my video library and shouldn't be too far back.

[@piyushraj6927]

@@DannyHatcherTech found it thanks

[@SoroushTorkian]

I left notion for Apple ecosystem, which is not the best idea for cross-operating systems but with Siri and loads of other things, friction is incredible reduced.

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Yeah, the small friction points that are ok for some are too much for others 🤷‍♂️

[@priyashkadu3985]

Bro....is that second brain creating helpful....or Ctrl+P can be used to find Saved Notes and Just using calendar for tasks and Projects is Good? (in Notion) . .Which method is better?

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Is the second brain concept helpful, yes. How you build a second brain is up to each person. I like to think of my second brain as my digital toolbox as there are pieces of information stored in different ways. As to which is better, searching and organising both work it is personal preference and for me I do both.

[@petraivatovic3627]

but now, when you know the limit for number of pages, how can u leave notion? jk. I've came for notion but still excited to see what other stuff will come

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Haha I know right 😅

[@themaddrummerofficial]

"The red squiggly line is under half of my words." LOL That's pretty good stuff. :-)

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Aha 😅

[@lucassobris]

Came here 'cause notion is down today lol

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Aha, one of my irritations with online only tools 🤷‍♂️

[@Enacaus]

I highly disagree with you. Most of your problems are gonna be fixed in the future, just be patient. As for the second part of the video, I think most of them could be fixed if you used King Bradley's Advanced PPV system.

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Everyone has their own opinion. Fixed in the future doesn't help now, and his system doesn't work for me at all which is fine because it is built for him.

[@Rokinso]

Be cautious: Vim has a reputation as one of the most complex to understand code editor. Maybe, Emacs will suit for you.

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Oh yes, I am well aware of the reputation 😅 I am not using the vim editor right now, I am using VScod with a Vim extension for navigation because it makes things so much quicker.

[@Rokinso]

@@DannyHatcherTech, ok. Thanks for answer! :)

[@torspedia]

Sounding more like you'll be a perfect candidate to become an Arch Linux based user, with a Window Manager as your environment... as that's very keyboard-heavy! And Vim is used a lot in Linux... I certainly agree with the bouncing between pages, in Notion, as that's a friction point for me as well.

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Maybe, we will what the future holds 😁

[@eliasbarsenga]

why are you this close to the camera? i was uncomfortable to watch the video.. was interested with what you were talking about but..

[@DannyHatcherTech]

I don't remember but I would imagine I was testing out settings, lighting and setup.

[@Jnne____]

I felt good to watch with 1.75x speed, bla bla bla LOL. I can't go back to normal speed. (No offense, you really made my day.)

[@DannyHatcherTech]

I watch everything x2 so no worries. 😁

[@rediffusion7996]

@@DannyHatcherTech

[@Rupadarshi-Ray]

About time😂😂

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Yeah, finally got the video done.

[@aar021]

Really valuable information. Thank you for the video.

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Glad you found it useful 😁

[@sunbhattacharjee655]

this is so to the point and concise. 💛

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Thanks, that is goal with videos. Not to much fluff 😁

[@imran.hossain]

After using Notion for two years, I deliberately moved to Obsidian last January (2021)! Enjoyed the humour! Thanks.

[@DannyHatcherTech]

yeah, I think Notion is a great app but for users with lots of note-taking it does get beaten by other apps like Obsidian.

[@imran.hossain]

@@DannyHatcherTech So true!

[@bnodonprojukt2124]

3:08 export failed !!! 🤣🤣🤣. this whole video was entertaining after browsing through many videos on productivity on notion

[@DannyHatcherTech]

haha, it was great fun to make 😁

[@alansierra4427]

Estoy de acuerdo en todo, personalmente lo que mas necesito es el modo Vim, y un soporte para snippets personalizados, escribo muchas notas apoyandome de LaTeX para las formuals, notion es muy torpe en ese aspecto.

[@DannyHatcherTech]

agreed. That is why apps like obsidian, logseq, roam to an extend are better for that type of note taking.

[@BrixsDNAfortnite]

If you like speed with your keyboard you should look at Things 3 from Cultured Code

[@DannyHatcherTech]

I would if I wasn't an android and windows user... trust me there are loads of apps that I would love to try 🤷‍♂️

[@paperlessmovement]

Love your videos. :) Legit reasons to leave indeed. ;)

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Thanks Tom. Your content is always in my watch later list.

[@julianbigbtube]

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 Espero aprender de tus videos con obsidian.

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Maybe someday 😁

[@alec1115]

To be fair, Notion made their platform faster in April 2021.

[@DannyHatcherTech]

True but I have seen the speed fluctuate a lot for many people and the inconsistency is something I would prefer not to have to think about.

[@alec1115]

@@DannyHatcherTech fair enough

[@amp7930]

Ok so why did he leave notion, short summary ? I was thinking to start using it and here I am. What's the best alternative then?

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Small Task management issues, Backlinking is limited so I use todoist, gcal, and obsidian. 😁

[@RichardLScott]

You have compelled me you give Notion another look. By the way, I'm a fussy time viewer. Thanks

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Just sharing my experience 😁

[@Clippetz]

Oh, mate, I've done exactly the same ))) the irony of it . I did it 2 days ago

[@DannyHatcherTech]

I think there will be a shift in the apps people use as the buzz starts to simmer down.

[@Clippetz]

@@DannyHatcherTech you're perfectly right, Dan. But you'll probably going to be laughing at my choice. I reverted back not even to Evernote. I've recently come to realize that instead of developing and multiplying my ideas I'm actually spending the Lion's share of my time beautifying my notes and ideas visually. And yes. The Google keep / Google docs stack works wonders for me.

[@DannyHatcherTech]

@@Clippetz sometimes simple is just better.

[@DrJohnPollard]

Where does it say you are moving to Coda?

[@DannyHatcherTech]

I would point you to that video but I am not moving to coda 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@DrJohnPollard]

@@DannyHatcherTech What are you doing?

[@PhysicsandProductivity]

Oh common...give Notion a chance

[@DannyHatcherTech]

The 3 years have been great but for me, it is time to move one 😁

[@PhysicsandProductivity]

@@DannyHatcherTech I see. I hope the small Notion team notices your VDO and improves it according to your comments. Btw, love the thumbnail 😂

[@DannyHatcherTech]

@@PhysicsandProductivity I doubt it. My use case is too niche for their tool which is ok. If I work with a team I may use Notion in the future. Thanks 😁

[@wittawatsaenrang1261]

@@DannyHatcherTech Oh yeah ... I have been using Notion with my grad students. I can't tell if they like to use it or not but I love using it. I can find all sort of things I have had communicated with my students and can track their progresses.

[@jgsource552]

I wish obsidian was mobile, only reason im staying on notion

[@DannyHatcherTech]

They are working on it... they have a public road map if your interested, just Google it 😁

[@pfuhad3760]

Obsidian mobile is released

[@aatiya19]

there is no option to revert changes

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Not sure what you mean. Notion has an undo function and trash bin for old files. It also have version history on paid plans.

[@aatiya19]

@@DannyHatcherTech wheres the undo function cant find it

[@DannyHatcherTech]

@@aatiya19 I use the keyboard shortcut ctrl + z

[@aatiya19]

@@DannyHatcherTech that works thanks! any idea how to export notion page as a MS word

[@Global_Epicurean]

A lousy dancer blames the uneven floor

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Could you explain what your talking about. I thought my dancing was on point 🙃

[@Taskade]

🙌 🙌 🙌

[@DannyHatcherTech]

😁

[@sdnnvs]

Did Notion stop paying?

[@DannyHatcherTech]

stop paying who/what? If you think I was/am getting paid by Notion you should check their sponsorship criteria 100k subs.... I am not even at 10k. Interesting assumption but unfortunately for me false. (the criteria may have changed but I am not sponsored by any app)

[@axea4554]

what

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Yeah...my recent video gives some insight into what I am using right now.

[@ServantStatusMinistries]

Honestly I moved from Notion because of the backups idea and privacy discovered Athens research, Logseq, and Obsidian a year ago....makes ya wanna cry when you see what they can do. I only use Notion with a premade gamified board that tracks current projects and habits I am focused on as far as management is concerned but for wiki I use obsidian. This way if Notion ever shut down or for privacy reasons I don’t have important things stored there and everything in it is already first inspired in obsidian. Notion is just too good for project management. I made a good set up with plugins in obsidian but Notion takes the cake with the drag and drop in multiple columns so I just settled with using both apps.

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Yeah agreed on all points there. I don't need that much project management am a little more flexible.

[@ServantStatusMinistries]

@@DannyHatcherTech something to consider is to use it for tracking energy levels. I discovered the reverse pomodoro and to track what activities to do such as cold shower or walks, times of day, and the type of music or no music to listen to when doing different tasks. It helps to see how your brain is most efficient according to outside stimuli and knowing that you can gauge how how to lengthen your flow while working. Kinda like tracking REM sleep.

[@DannyHatcherTech]

@@ServantStatusMinistries sounds interesting, not something I typically do but sounds beneficial to some.

[@ServantStatusMinistries]

@@DannyHatcherTech most definitely. Keep up the great work with your videos. There are always much appreciated!!!!

[@starling3494]

why I keep watching this guy's video and get obsessed with how he speak

[@DannyHatcherTech]

The Accent maybe 🤷‍♂️ I am told I am too fast 😅

[@starling3494]

@@DannyHatcherTech well to me it's just fine, finally don't have to put on 1.5play speed on videos.

[@spacebuffer]

great video 👍

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Thanks Youssef!

[@coinbowl]

Is your face real?

[@DannyHatcherTech]

It feels real to me...

[@AbdelsalamHussienfazza]

Are you Gemini bro?

[@sportsadictgirl]

jajajaj this made me laugh... the moment I read your comment, as a Gemini myself, I thought "Is it because of how he talks? (speed, facial expressions, etc.) because I can totally relate. Even wondered if that's how I look when I talk 😂

[@DannyHatcherTech]

Just had to confirm but no. October so scorpio.

[@AbdelsalamHussienfazza]

@@DannyHatcherTech Thank you bro and you have a great fantastic intuition. Keep it up!

[@AbdelsalamHussienfazza]

@@sportsadictgirl Yeah exactly and I thought so coz the way he talks as of Russell Brand who is a Gemini!