Why I'm Presbyterian - KingdomCraft

[@robr.5646]

Who’s will and why is everyone always talking about freeing him?

[@JoWilliams-ud4eu]

😂

[@niccolopaganini1782]

I actually have never heard this one lol 😂

[@spiderking8011]

Free my boi

[@esserman1603]

@@robr.5646 Very humourous!

[@AJX-2]

Free Willy

[@tony3]

You're Presbyterian because God predestined you to be

[@CliffCardi]

Just as planned! -Tzeentch

[@purpleguy-bu5fe]

That's what I was going to say😅

[@drjanitor3747]

Predestined him to hell.

[@tking2199]

That is just cope

[@ogloc6308]

true

[@chrisdon9874]

“TikTok makes girls gay and men Eastern Orthodox.” Why does this statement make sense?😭

[@fallenkingdom-zd8xh]

Please do a video about how Christians should deal with loss and grief. I think it could be interesting. And a video about how to act charitably to non-Christians when debating.

[@coltonregal1797]

I second this.

[@aliengoboom-t9k]

Adding on to that, how to not straw man other people. If I see one more person with valid critique brushed off as "they just want to sin", I am going to scream.

[@charles21137]

@@aliengoboom-t9kChristians also need to work on how to not commit the appeal to authority fallacy.

[@tking2199]

Just go through the motions, you're already predestined to do so, right?

[@charles21137]

@ Your confusing fatalism with determinism. In fatalism, the same outcome will happen no matter what decision you make. In determinism, different decisions make different outcomes, but the decision is determined.

[@cameronbuckner254]

I was raised Indepedent Fundamentalist Baptist but im actually attending my first Presbyterian service this Sunday! I'm still wrestling with Calvinism and theology and its been difficult separating myself from dogma ive been taught for so long but I am so excited to see another tradition! I was raised IFB for 30 years so it's a big step and one that has been months of reading and studying and praying in the making! Good timing Zoomer!! Also awesome video!

[@dhghffhg2427]

Tim Keller has a sermon does God control everything, maybe you want to check that out.

[@cameronbuckner254]

@dhghffhg2427 sounds good i really appreciate the advice!

[@JoWilliams-ud4eu]

Based

[@cameronbuckner254]

@JoWilliams-ud4eu thanks for the compliment haha, I just want to Worship Christ correctly. I dont know if I ever can with how awful and sinful I am, but I can at least try!

[@JoWilliams-ud4eu]

@cameronbuckner254 Good luck on your quest and Godspeed.

[@jaysmagata3707]

Proud to say I'm officially Presbyterian! I just attended my first church service a week ago.

[@ethantercier6057]

I love the mention of staying true to the church that you're attending. I am Baptist not because of theology but because I have attended one my entire life and the camp I went to and worked at were at a Baptist church

[@PhoenixG1rl]

I love that Zoomer's really going back to Christianity's roots in secret underground churches by building a catacombs church within the kingdomcraft server. looking forward to seeing how he retakes St. Athanasius Presbyterian church from the pink sheep!

[@JoWilliams-ud4eu]

Because you think they are the smartest and there was a Presbyterian church near you?

[@redeemedzoomer6053]

Yea pretty much 😅

[@infxrnalsylvan]

i was predestined before the creation of the world to dislike Calvinism

[@tking2199]

But dont you mean you had a free will that is enslaved and that enslaved free will made it so you were predestined to dislike Calvinism? 😂😂😂

[@infxrnalsylvan]

@@tking2199 be quiet nerd

[@BernardinusDeMoor]

And, I trust, you were also predestined to one day change your mind on that.

[@Ramash440]

On the bit about sticking to the church you're familiar with: this channel made me consider christianity, but I was baptized catholic, all my christian friends/family are catholic and the only big church in my entire neighborhood is catholic, mostly because more than half of my country is catholic. Though I disagree with some things in Catholicism I don't see myself going into any other denomination, which funnily enough would add to the ever growing list of people the Zoomer accidentally made catholic despite all of his protestant views.

[@tking2199]

Well good for you and God bless.

[@Ramash440]

@@tking2199 I'm still on the early exploration phase, mind you. I've gone most of my entire life believing there is *a* god, but not necessarily a personal one. Now I've been reading the Bible, watching theology videos and talking to catholics I know about it.

[@newme1589]

I was a very hardcore Atheist, and now im a Christian, so people can change, at the same time maybe they dont change 😅 I dont have a denomination as of now, im the heretic that likes a little bit about every denomination and would like for everyone to get along, but at the same time i understand the history behind different denominations and how thats normal human behaviour oof Also was going to become Muslim haha

[@Liethen]

Next video: Why I'm not not Presbyterian. Still waiting on Why I'm not Western Branch of American Reform Presbylutheranism, maybe around the beginning of April.

[@JoWilliams-ud4eu]

4:47 Finally, someone acknowledges that Calvinists believe in free will.

[@theheroofmagicical628]

lies

[@JoWilliams-ud4eu]

@theheroofmagicical628 how so?

[@33legion]

I would say they do, but it's such a watered down version of free will that it's basically meaningless. Redeemed Zoomer says our free will is enslaved to sin... so is it really free if it's enslaved? I do believe our free will is in a sense enslaved, but not completely. That would be "total depravity," which I'm not sure I agree with. Lately I've been learning about Catholic teaching on predestination, which is actually very similar to Reformed, but there are subtle differences that I think matter. But I need to learn more.

[@pedroguimaraes6094]

When we speak of human free will in Reformed theology, we need to clarify what we mean. Yes, we have free will in the sense that we make real choices, but these choices are always determined by our nature. A helpful analogy is this: imagine a compass. A compass needle always points north because of the magnetic pull. Similarly, our will always "points" according to our nature. After the Fall, our nature is corrupted by sin, so our "compass" points toward self-centeredness and rebellion against God (Romans 8:7-8). This is what the Reformed tradition calls total depravity: not that we are as sinful as we could be, but that sin affects every part of our being-our thoughts, desires, and will (Jeremiah 17:9, Ephesians 2:1-3). Because of this, we are slaves to sin, as Jesus says in John 8:34: "Jesus answered them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin." This slavery is not an external force controlling us but an internal corruption inclining us away from God and toward sin. Thomas Aquinas provides an insightful contrast. He argued that while the human will is weakened by sin, it is not entirely incapable of choosing good without divine grace (Summa Theologica, I-II, Q. 109, Art. 6). In Reformed theology, however, we believe Scripture teaches that apart from God’s regenerating grace, we cannot choose what is truly good or turn to God (Ephesians 2:1, John 6:44). Our will, enslaved by sin, cannot free itself-it requires God to regenerate our hearts, giving us a new "compass" that points toward Him (Ezekiel 36:26-27, Philippians 2:13). So we sided with Augustine in that matter. Augustine put it succinctly: "Man's will is free, but not freed: free from righteousness, but enslaved to sin" (On Grace and Free Will, Chapter 30). This means that our will operates within the bounds of our sinful nature until God intervenes. Once regenerated, however, our will is truly free to love and obey God.

[@pedroguimaraes6094]

When we speak of human free will in Reformed theology, we need to clarify what we mean. Yes, we have free will in the sense that we make real choices, but these choices are always determined by our nature. A helpful analogy is this: imagine a compass. A compass needle always points north because of the magnetic pull. Similarly, our will always "points" according to our nature. After the Fall, our nature is corrupted by sin, so our "compass" points toward self-centeredness and rebellion against God (Romans 8:7-8). This is what the Reformed tradition calls total depravity: not that we are as sinful as we could be, but that sin affects every part of our being-our thoughts, desires, and will (Jeremiah 17:9, Ephesians 2:1-3). Because of this, we are slaves to sin, as Jesus says in John 8:34: "Jesus answered them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin." This slavery is not an external force controlling us but an internal corruption inclining us away from God and toward sin. Thomas Aquinas provides an insightful contrast. He argued that while the human will is weakened by sin, it is not entirely incapable of choosing good without divine grace (Summa Theologica, I-II, Q. 109, Art. 6). In Reformed theology, however, we believe Scripture teaches that apart from God’s regenerating grace, we cannot choose what is truly good or turn to God (Ephesians 2:1, John 6:44). Our will, enslaved by sin, cannot free itself-it requires God to regenerate our hearts, giving us a new "compass" that points toward Him (Ezekiel 36:26-27, Philippians 2:13). So we sided with Augustine in that matter. Augustine put it succinctly: "Man's will is free, but not freed: free from righteousness, but enslaved to sin" (On Grace and Free Will, Chapter 30). This means that our will operates within the bounds of our sinful nature until God intervenes. Once regenerated, however, our will is truly free to love and obey God.

[@GrinvalskyMchone]

[@mamichulahazeleyes]

Please how ?

[@mamichulahazeleyes]

Am a born Christian and sometimes I feel so down 😭 of myself because of low finance but I still believe God😞

[@GrinvalskyMchone]

It's Maria Angelina Alexander doing she's changed my life. A BROKER- like her is what you need.

[@GrinvalskyMchone]

$356K monthly is something you should feel differently about....

[@Michaelpartin75437]

Lovely! I enjoyed it like I enjoy a $100k monthly around the turn!!!

[@Sebman1113]

I grew up in Minnesota, my parents brought me to an ELCA church every Sunday, and I grew up to love Lutheranism, so I remained Lutheran. Now that I am in college, I remain at a different ELCA church and I go every Sunday. the Bible is Gods word and we are saved by Grace alone, this sums up why I am Lutheran.

[@tobymaskell3276]

Hey man, I'd be really interested in a like exploration for how reformed theology works with other denominations. Not sure if people know but Methodism naturally subscribes to an Arminian doctrine. However many early members of the Methodist Revival Movement in the UK were Calvinistic Methodists. The Presbyterian Church of Wales is probably the most prominent example of this. In fact, outside of the resident Anglican church and Catholicism, it is one of the largest denominations in Wales, having a profound effect on the nation's culture. Anyways, become a big fan of your dedication and honesty, bravo.

[@Israel-Niles]

I’m so glad you brought this series back :)

[@esserman1603]

Because we are Reformed according to the very word of God, which is Christ Jesus, our Lord and Saviour.

[@drjanitor3747]

Lol. That’s what every heretic thinks

[@Creashaks_]

LOOOOOOOOOL

[@tking2199]

What? God says in the bible we are reformed?

[@lifeofbeautyk]

​@tking2199 of course not.

6:30 That is actually the belief of Catholic church, that communion can be damnation upon those that take it against the will of God, so as Catholic I actually agree on that.

[@Lemone262]

Of course it is, we share the same history of Church before 1520's ♥ Also it's what apostle Paul writes in 1 Cor. 11:27-29, so anyone who doesn't affirm that, is not consistent with the scripture, but that's ok, they're still the Body of Christ.

[@colincampbell3837]

Hey zoomer, The other day, I made a comment on one of your videos asking how to figure out what God wanted me to do in my life. I believe you responded telling me that I needed to humble myself. At the time, I got frustrated, and I felt kind of hurt about it. In all honesty, I've always thought of myself as humble, but after your comment, I reflected and realized that just like everyone else, I have my own flaws, and not having enough humility is definitely one of them. These past few weeks I've really been thinking about all of this, and I was gonna ask if there were any tips you had on having more humility, and how to realize that without God, there isn't much I can do. I know it's a dumb question, but I just don't know how.

[@redeemedzoomer6053]

go to church, ask your pastor

[@Matthew_Prescott]

Just heard the advice I am about to give you from a friend just yesterday, and while it was more focused on a question of productivity, I think it applies to your individual concerns. We often look at our time in life as a pie chart, and fuss about with whether we give God enough time, not enough time, whether we spend too much time on ourselves, whether we don't relax enough, etc. When you erase the lines on the slices and just put "focus on and fear God" in the center, then the lines end up writing themselves in, and it just works. I think the same thing that will help you be more humble is the same thing that will help me best utilize my time, and that is mindfulness. When you are constantly aware of God and you seek to maintain an eternal perspective, coincidences start to disappear and your life naturally becomes better ordered. One cannot simply "get" more humility. It is a virtue that must be cultivated, and the surest way to cultivate it is to know your place - which is helpless without God, and beyond reproach with and in Him. Anyways, I hope that helps in some small way.

[@jeremiahherider2563]

U shall never stop the Pink Sheep! A house divided against it's self cannot stand?

[@marcoshechavarria8766]

I’ve been asking God to give me wisdom on the denominations and I’ve learned that we’re all different branches connecting to the same tree some branches are weight bearing some are perfect for animals but we all have the same job… bring life to the things around us praise the Lord Jesus Christ Father Son Holy Spirit Amen✝️🙏🏼

[@ryuturcios]

A Minecraft builder who talks about Christianity? Based ✝️

[@ChirpingChirping-u2z]

I recently left an IFB church and joined my local Presbyterian church. Everything about my Presbyterian church is first class. Independent churches are divorced from historical Christianity

[@Idinnes]

I'm still just a Christian with no Church I feel at home with other than of course the Church of our Lord Christ, but still I'm trying to find a church that suits me best. I definitely can see the appeal and logic of Calvinist theology, thank you for this video, God bless you!

[@redeemedzoomer6053]

find a solid church here: www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?mid=1PNd_sJagci84PyKmGC6M5VJtaLMEWxg&ll=35.11906181790259%2C-89.94886084999997&z=18

[@dalton7726]

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

[@LoganS.R.]

What I find pretty cool is that, depending on the way you look at it, there are some examples of predestination in the Bible Itself. E.g. Phaoroah having his heart hardened by God (which is an iffy one, I will admit, since he did let the Jews go eventually, but didn't really convert), Saul being visited by Jesus and converted by Him without Saul converting himself, etc.

[@Adinas_music]

Love this so much thank u for making these videos

[@Connerscuriosities]

I used to be Babtist but now I'm Presbyterian. :)

[@mawkernewek]

Redeemed Zoomer aims to retake the church On Earth as it is in Minecraft

[@SilentEcho4178]

You DECIDED to stay Presbyterian? sus

[@tking2199]

"Enslaved ahhh" free will💀

[@thomasdemetz6145]

"free will" is not equal to "predestination". Although God is all-knowing, and wants everyone to be saved, not everyone will accept Jesus, because we have free will. Love cannot be forced. (Jesus is coming back for his bride, not for those who have rejected him.)

[@michaelmariano4747]

FINALLY THE RETURN OF THE CHURCH

[@JoWilliams-ud4eu]

It's here

[@Pak43lol]

You should do a collab with impact video ministries

[@tking2199]

So you chose Calvinism.... and chose to be Presbyterian.... Ok.

[@TheRecapitulaitionist]

I think the foundational split that makes Calvinism Christocentric, yet so opposed to the Christocentrism of figures like Saint Maximus the Confessor, Saint Bonaventure and Bl. John Duns Scotus is the notion of Forensic Justification. If righteousness is Imputed, not infused, Calvinism is correct, and I would probably convert to Presbyterianism. However, I think the argument for Infused Justification, that the infusion of Grace onto the Soul is what is the action of the Rendering of One's Soul before God righteous, makes more sense and is, ultimately, more Christological. It first begs the question: What is Grace?

[@quagsiremcgee1647]

Guys. RZ is building a modern basement church. Protect your stripmalls.

[@landonhouse9338]

This channel led me to orthodoxy

[@avivastudios2311]

Did you start watching Kyle?

[@landonhouse9338]

@ jay dyer

[@Idinnes]

@@landonhouse9338 he actually strayed me further away from orthodoxy, he explains things in a prideful manner and it's a huge turnoff, watch his debate with RZ

[@landonhouse9338]

@@Idinnes I have already watched his debate with RZ. I love Jay Dyer

[@lilheccer6936]

Hey Zoomer and other fellow Christians, I have been seeing many Christians on social media who claim that denominations are unnecessary and going by the mantras of "accepting" not "understanding" the Word of God and "following Jesus, not the religion". What do you guys think about this philosophy?

[@galladite4924]

"Accepting" not "understanding" sounds a lot like what a large number of Mulsims do (can't remember the name of the group), where they parrot back what the Qur'an says but without trying to explain it. Like when it comes to all the descriptions of Allah's body parts, they affirm what the text says but make no attempt at explaining it, claiming that it's not meant in any way we can comprehend. Source is my Muslim friend.

[@pedroguimaraes6094]

@@lilheccer6936 Thats the influence of modernism in the church and it is actually very bad. And Jesus promissed that the Holy Spirit would guide the church in understanding the truth.

[@timothyvenable3336]

I agree with basically all Presbyterian theology and beliefs. I’m not Presbyterian for the same reason Zoomer is Presbyterian. Just because that’s the culture I’m in (non-denominational/baptist). I don’t think nondenominational is the best for the same reasons Zoomer has issues with it, but that’s where I found Jesus so that’s where I’m at

[@DylanMatthewTurner]

You should join the One True Church. That is, you should join the Pecan Creek Bible Church headed by Pastor Billy Bob

[@hismajesty6272]

Since you’re Presbyterian, what is the Presby stance on the film “Free Willy”? (Also love the vids. Your channel helped me change theological views)

[@generalmikalie2739]

For people with adhd: he is presbyterian because he is the chosen one. He is destined to restore the balance to the force.

[@noahtylerpritchett2682]

No supporter (that is not ignorant) who supports the episcopate thinks the bishopric is the highest authority. Of course God is head of the church. What many people who like bishops believe is bishops are representatives who legislate God's will and maintain order keeping back the chaos. Though in absence of a episcopate the Presbytery is the logical substitution. And simply a pastor's congregation could devolve into chaos or heresy without oversight and a council who checkmate each other's spiritual being with biblical consensus. But in absence of a Bishop there must be a Presbytery. The three-tier hierarchy of church governance: *Tier 1: Bishops (Episcopacy)* - Role: Spiritual oversight, doctrine, and governance - Responsibilities: - Ordaining clergy - Providing pastoral guidance - Maintaining church unity - Defending orthodoxy - Scriptural basis: 1 Timothy 3:1-7, Titus 1:5-9 - Patristic support: Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp of Smyrna, Cyprian of Carthage *Tier 2: Presbyters (Presbyterian/Elder)* - Role: Local church leadership, teaching, and guidance - Responsibilities: - Pastoral care - Preaching and teaching - Administering sacraments - Assisting bishops - Scriptural basis: Acts 14:23, 1 Timothy 4:13-14 - Patristic support: Clement of Rome, Tertullian, Origen *Tier 3: Deacons (Diaconate)* - Role: Servant-leadership, practical support, and administration - Responsibilities: - Caring for the poor - Managing church resources - Assisting presbyters - Supporting bishops - Scriptural basis: Acts 6:1-6, 1 Timothy 3:8-13 - Patristic support: Augustine of Hippo, John Chrysostom This three-tier hierarchy is observed in various Christian traditions, including: 1. Eastern Orthodoxy 2. Roman Catholicism 3. Anglicanism 4. Some Lutheran and Presbyterian denominations *Key Principles:* 1. Apostolic succession (bishops) 2. Collegiality (bishops working together) 3. Subsidiarity (decision-making at local level) 4. Accountability (mutual accountability within tiers) *Benefits:* 1. Clear lines of authority 2. Effective governance 3. Balanced leadership 4. Preservation of tradition *Challenges:* 1. Potential for abuse of authority 2. Bureaucratic inefficiencies 3. Conflicts between tiers 4. Maintaining biblical fidelity This hierarchy aims to balance authority, accountability, and effectiveness in governing the Church. Here's an argument for Episcopal structure and against Presbyterial structure: *Argument for Episcopal Structure:* 1. *Apostolic Succession*: Episcopal structure maintains a direct link to the apostles through the laying on of hands (Acts 13:3, 1 Timothy 4:14, 2 Timothy 1:6). This ensures continuity and authenticity. 2. *Clear Leadership*: A single bishop provides clear leadership, accountability, and decision-making authority (1 Timothy 3:1-7, Titus 1:5-9). This prevents confusion and facilitates effective governance. 3. *Unity and Cohesion*: Episcopal structure promotes unity across churches, as bishops provide a centralized connection (Acts 15:1-35, Galatians 2:1-10). This helps maintain doctrine and practice consistency. 4. *Pastoral Care*: Bishops can provide personalized guidance and support to local churches, addressing specific needs (1 Timothy 3:4-5, Titus 1:9). 5. *Historical Precedent*: The early church adopted an episcopal structure (Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp of Smyrna, and Irenaeus of Lyons). *Argument Against Presbyterial Structure:* 1. *Lack of Clear Leadership*: Presbyterial structure often leads to collective decision-making, potentially causing indecision and inefficiency. 2. *Risk of Congregationalism*: Presbyterial governance can devolve into congregationalism, where local churches prioritize individual interests over broader unity. 3. *Limited Accountability*: Without a clear hierarchical structure, accountability and discipline can become challenging (Matthew 18:15-17, 1 Corinthians 5:1-5). 4. *Doctrinal Variability*: Presbyterial structure may allow for diverse interpretations, potentially leading to theological fragmentation. 5. *Inadequate Representation*: In presbyterial systems, smaller churches may struggle to have their voices heard, leading to disproportionate representation. *Scriptural Support for Episcopal Structure:* 1. Acts 13:3 - Apostles and prophets appoint elders, but also recognize the role of bishops (Acts 20:28). 2. 1 Timothy 3:1-7 - Qualifications for bishops emphasize leadership and oversight. 3. Titus 1:5-9 - Paul instructs Titus to appoint elders, but also emphasizes the role of bishops. 4. Matthew 16:18-19 - Jesus grants Peter (and, by extension, apostolic successors) authority to bind and loose. *Rebutting Presbyterial Arguments:* 1. *Against "Presbyterian" Interpretation of Acts 14:23*: This verse describes apostolic appointment of elders, not a permanent presbyterial system. 2. *Against "Congregational" Interpretation of Matthew 18:15-17*: This passage addresses local church discipline, not governance structure. *Conclusion:* Episcopal structure provides clear leadership, unity, and continuity with the apostolic tradition. While presbyterial structure has its strengths, it may lead to inefficiencies, theological variability, and limited accountability. Episcopal governance aligns with scriptural precedent and historical Christian practice. *Elder and Bishop: Differences and Similarities* In the New Testament, "Elder" (Greek: πρεσβύτερος, presbyteros) and "Bishop" (Greek: ἐπίσκοπος, episkopos) refer to leadership roles within the early Christian church. *Similarities:* 1. Both terms describe spiritual leaders. 2. Both are responsible for guiding and overseeing local churches. 3. Both require spiritual maturity, wisdom, and character (1 Timothy 3:1-7, Titus 1:5-9). *Differences:* 1. *Elder* (presbyteros): - Emphasizes wisdom, age, and experience. - Focuses on teaching, guiding, and counseling (1 Timothy 4:13, 5:17). - Plural leadership (e.g., "elders" in Acts 11:30, 14:23). 2. *Bishop* (episkopos): - Emphasizes oversight, supervision, and guardianship. - Focuses on administrative and pastoral responsibilities (1 Timothy 3:1-7, Acts 20:28). - Singular leadership (e.g., "bishop" in 1 Timothy 3:1). *Development of the Roles:* In the early church, elders were likely the primary leaders. As the church grew, the role of bishop emerged to provide more focused administrative oversight. *Mirroring the Aaronic Priesthood and Levites* The New Testament church leadership structure mirrors aspects of the Old Testament Aaronic priesthood and Levites: *Similarities:* 1. *Leadership Hierarchy:* Aaronic priesthood (High Priest, Priests, Levites) → Early Church (Apostles, Elders/Bishops, Deacons). 2. *Spiritual Oversight:* Aaronic priests oversaw spiritual matters → Elders/Bishops oversee spiritual guidance. 3. *Administrative Roles:* Levites assisted priests → Deacons assist Elders/Bishops. 4. *Qualifications:* Moral and spiritual requirements for Aaronic priests (Leviticus 21:1-9) → Similar requirements for Elders/Bishops (1 Timothy 3:1-7, Titus 1:5-9). *Differences:* 1. *Christological Focus:* The New Testament church centers on Jesus Christ, whereas the Old Testament focused on the Mosaic covenant. 2. *Universal Priesthood:* All believers are considered priests (1 Peter 2:9, Revelation 1:6) → No distinction between clergy and laity. 3. *Spiritual Authority:* Derived from Christ's authority, not lineage or ritual purity. *New Testament Equivalents:* 1. *Apostles* ≈ *High Priests:* Sent by Christ, establishing churches. 2. *Elders/Bishops* ≈ *Priests:* Spiritual oversight, teaching, and guidance. 3. *Deacons* ≈ *Levites:* Assisting with administrative and practical tasks. Keep in mind that these comparisons are not exact, as the New Testament church was a distinct development from the Old Testament system. Sola Presbyteros is bad. But I don't deny their apostolic succession. Jeaus is king of kings and high priest. Kings and priests are subordinate to Jesus. But they're necessary evils for order, stability and security.

[@noahtylerpritchett2682]

Here are some verses that relate to the divine right to rule for kings and priests: _Kings:_ 1. _Romans 13:1-7_ - "Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established... For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good." (Establishes the divine right of kings to rule) 2. _1 Peter 2:13-17_ - "Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human authority: whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority, or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right." (Emphasizes submission to authority) 3. _Proverbs 8:15-16_ - "By me kings reign and rulers issue decrees that are just; by me princes govern, and nobles-all who rule on earth." (Wisdom, personified as a divine attribute, claims responsibility for the reign of kings) 4. _1 Samuel __10:24__-25_ - "When Samuel saw Saul, the Lord said to him, 'This is the man I spoke to you about; he will govern my people.' Saul also said to the people, 'You have seen how the Lord has rescued us from the hand of our enemies and protected us.'" (Saul is chosen by God to govern Israel) _Priests:_ 1. _Hebrews 5:4-6_ - "And no one takes this honor on himself, but only when called by God, just as Aaron was. In the same way, Christ did not take on himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him, 'You are my Son; today I have become your Father.'" (Establishes the divine calling of priests) 2. _Exodus 28:1_ - "Have Aaron your brother brought to you from among the Israelites, along with his sons Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar, so they may serve me as priests." (God calls Aaron and his sons to serve as priests) 3. _Leviticus 21:6-8_ - "They shall be holy to their God and not profane the name of their God. Because they present the food offerings to the Lord, they are to be holy. They must not marry women defiled by prostitution or divorced from their husbands, because priests are holy to their God." (Priests are called to be holy and represent God) 4. _Malachi 2:7-8_ - "For the lips of a priest ought to preserve knowledge, because he is the messenger of the Lord Almighty and people seek instruction from him. But you have turned from the way and by your teaching have caused many to stumble..." (Priests are responsible for preserving knowledge and representing God) _Enforcing Order and Discipline:_ 1. _1 Corinthians 4:21_ - "What do you prefer? Shall I come to you with a rod of discipline, or shall I come in love and with a gentle spirit?" (Paul threatens discipline to maintain order) 2. _2 Thessalonians 3:6-15_ - "In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers and sisters, to keep away from every believer who is idle and disobedient to the teaching we gave you... Take special note of anyone who does not obey our instruction in this letter. Do not associate with them, in order that they may feel ashamed." (Paul commands discipline and separation from disobedient believers) 3. _Matthew 18:15-20_ - "If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. But if they will not listen, take one or two others along... If they refuse to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector." (Jesus teaches a process for discipline and restoration within the church) _Representing God and Preventing Sin:_ 1. _Leviticus 10:10-11_ - "You are to distinguish between the holy and the common, between the unclean and the clean, and you are to teach the Israelites all the decrees the Lord has given them through Moses." (Priests are responsible for teaching and distinguishing between holy and common) 2. _Deuteronomy 17:8-13_ - "If cases come before your courts that are too difficult for you to judge-whether bloodshed, lawsuits or assaults-take them to the place the Lord your God will choose. Go to the Levitical priests and to the judge who is in office at that time. Inquire of them and they will give you the verdict. You must act according to the decisions they give you at the place the Lord

[@JoWilliams-ud4eu]

To long, did not read

[@redeemedzoomer6053]

based

[@noahtylerpritchett2682]

@@JoWilliams-ud4eu than don't read

[@noahtylerpritchett2682]

@@redeemedzoomer6053 tbh I am surprised that was the reaction

[@JusticeBinder]

Presbyterian gang

[@clintwilliams6345]

You should do a video explaining the difference between Presby and Dutch Reformed and why you would fall under the Presby view.

[@redeemedzoomer6053]

already did it

[@clintwilliams6345]

@ I feel like such a bad subscriber 😂

[@EvanG529]

4:40 that's me! lol

[@brendangolledge8312]

God wants to save everyone + God has absolute control over everything = everyone is saved. The only way that everyone is not saved is if one of the two is missing. If God gets 100% credit for saving us, then he also gets 100% credit for everyone who isnt saved. That means that people arent saved just because God arbitrarily picks winners and losers. The only way God is omnibenevolent while people aren't saved is if there is something outside of his control, such as human free will. I would presume that he could have not given us free will and saved everyone by force if he wanted to, but presumably, he likes for some of his creation to have the freedom to disobey him if they choose. It seems to me that while it's impossible for any human to become perfect (sinless) by his own efforts, we have to at least try. It would make sense that God's grace applies to those things that we would do but cannot, but does not apppy to those things that we would not do, out of respect for our free choice.

[@thomasdemetz6145]

God did not create evil. Satan and the fallen angels have rebelled because of free will. We as humans have a free will too, so it is for us to choose if we want to follow Jesus or not.

[@brendangolledge8312]

@@thomasdemetz6145 I was arguing against calvinism though, which does (if I understand right) say that humans aren't able to choose to do good and that it's all on God,

[@simeonyves5940]

I am an Oddsocks in that I am Completely Presbyterian on Theology and actually Identify as Presbyterian! as in Theology I am indeed Completely Presbyterian in that I am completely God-Centered! but am also Reformed/Cranmerian Low Anglican on Liturgy and in Heritage (i was raised, and first Exposed to the Gospel, in a Reformed Low Anglican School in the 90's, sadly however the Diocese Apostatized into Liberalism in the early 2000's and so badly it now has a Transgender "bishop", which is just....utter Corruption!) , there is also some Congregationalist in me in that I am very non-Conforming and am Opposed to the Idea of anyone being king other than Christ Jesus the King of kings! bit of an odd Mix... fortunately, I have found a Church that has that same Mix! unfortunately, its 105 Miles away!

[@BriskN_]

The bills were high

[@whatisavehicle]

I'm presbyterian because God's sovereignty requires all the aspects of Calvinism to function.

[@Hejabvb19091]

You should do a Christian apologist ranking

[@EmilTennis00]

great video, thank you.

[@joshuakelley3875]

7:15 You explain the three operations of the Godhead for salvation as election, atonement, and regeneration. You claim that the operations are distinct. Are they actually distinct, or just formally distinct?

[@pedroguimaraes6094]

Each operation is distinct in its role within the broader process of salvation, though all three share a common goal: the salvation of the elect. In the question of whether these operations are "formally" or "really" distinct, I would say they are really distinct in the sense that each person of the Godhead (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) is personally involved in a distinct aspect of salvation. While their roles are distinct, it is also important to remember that these operations cannot be separated in practice-they are inseparable and always function together for the salvation of the believer. For instance, without election, there is no atonement that applies, and without regeneration, the atonement is not received by the individual. So, while distinct in operation, they are inseparably linked in purpose and execution. I can give you another example that illustrates that: the incarnation of Christ Just as God the Son alone became incarnate, this action is inseparable from the will and actions of the Father and the Holy Spirit. The incarnation is distinctly the Son's work-only the Son took on human nature and became fully man while remaining fully God. However, this was not done in isolation; the Father sent the Son , and the Holy Spirit was involved in the conception of the Son in the womb of Mary. So, while the incarnation itself is the Son's specific act, it is inseparably connected to the will of the Father and the empowering work of the Spirit. This mirrors the way in which the operations of election, atonement, and regeneration are distinct in their roles but are always united in their purpose to accomplish the salvation of God's people.

[@fiddlerontheroof4099]

Of all the denominations, the pedantic elitist chose the one that's the most pedantic and elitist. Go figure.

[@galladite4924]

Sort of disappointing video. A lot of the points were things that would matter if you were choosing something like a club to join (perceivedly intelligent members, I was a Presbyterian to begin with) but aren't important factors on deciding which is the true church. It also displays a presupposition he didn't really talk about that all denominations, even if some are more right than others, are valid. The closest he got was talking about how Reformed theology supposedly has the most Christ-centred theology, but the specifics are full of non-sequitur arguments which go like "I perceive this as giving more credit to God; therefore, it's true."

[@newme1589]

To be fair, most people have this behaviour unless they are EXTREMELLY open minded, which is vert hard especially nowadays growing up with the internet and dopamine sucking stuff. Also it seems like Zoomer is "that nerdy kid™" (not an insult, i am too but i got slapped hard by Christ and now im becoming more open minded), which they dont tend to be the most open minded

[@BernardinusDeMoor]

@@galladite4924 Yeah, it would have been nice if there were more appeals to scripture.

[@omarvazquez3355]

I'm a Presbyterian because it has the most logical Theology. 😊

[@drjanitor3747]

Yet still heretical

[@omarvazquez3355]

@drjanitor3747 so you're saying it is the most logical but also heretical?

[@michaelns9887]

Have you played Vintage Story? Highly recommend, feels just like Minecraft beta felt for me when I was a teenager.

[@VictoriousCatholic]

Wonder if RZ has heard of Scott Hahn, former Presbyterian minister turned Catholic theologian

[@redeemedzoomer6053]

Yes I have heard of him

[@AoH3_King]

I really should join this server. But i feel like i never have ⏳️⏳️🕐🕐

[@alfieingrouille1528]

Ok cool 👍 Personally im a Anglican but theologically im very Catholic

[@noahtylerpritchett2682]

Why not Reformed-Anglican (either reform Arminian or Reform Calvinist?)

[@alfieingrouille1528]

​@@noahtylerpritchett2682eh I don't know enough about that side plus I personally theologically strongly agree with the Catholics the only major thing about Catholicism I don't like is the corruptobility of the Papacy as a institution

[@alfieingrouille1528]

​@@noahtylerpritchett2682hopefully my reply to you loads properly

[@noahtylerpritchett2682]

@@alfieingrouille1528 Oh just read Lambeth Conference writings (1571) and Lambeth articles (1595) Along with synod of Dublin (1615) and read Irish articles also 1615. Once you do all that you can decide to agree or disagree with this part of Anglicanism or incorporate it into your Catholic elements where you see fit

[@heisenberg3082]

@@alfieingrouille1528 the papacy is incorruptible. Jesus said to Peter (meaning rock in Aramaic) that upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it

[@IsaiahWagner-jx9kb]

Why are you Presbyterian

[@stevenjames6830]

The moment when you’re a heretic and you try to justify yourself based on Catholic writers

[@alfieingrouille1528]

Bruh

[@Thatoneguy-pu8ty]

Bro prob converted for the aesthetics

My problem with Presbyterian and Protestant idea of "By Faith Alone" is that it doesn't promote good works, and does not denounce bad deeds. With Catholicism - We do still believe that our salvation is thru Christ - but we can choose to not accept it, and fall away from grace. Therefore your bad deeds, are your conscious choice to deny Christ, and your good deeds show your acceptance of Christ grace. But we are not perfect, thus we need the sacraments, to strengthen our resolve to accept Christ salvific grace. And accepting the Sacraments, is accepting Christ's grace. This way Catholicism promotes good works, while remembering that we are only saved thru Christ, not our deeds. Meanwhile Protestants believe that Grace is something that just comes unto you, and takes over your free will or something. Or that you had no free will to begin with. That is not the case. EDIT: I would say it is a paralel of a drowning man - You can choose to grab the hand of a man that is extending a hand to you, while you're drowning, or you can choose not to. But it is he that save you, you didn't save yourself.

[@redeemedzoomer6053]

the heck? of course we promote good works and denounce bad deeds! Where did you get the idea that we don't?

[@sebastijan5894]

A very good counter argument against faith alone is also using their own principle of Sola Scriptura, "You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only" (James 2:24). Not surprisingly, heretic Martin Luther wanted to remove James from the Bible.

​@@redeemedzoomer6053 Your theology doesn't. How do you motivate people to do good deeds, if you tell them "No your good deeds don't contribute to your salvation"? I see it as quite demotivating.

[@aliengoboom-t9k]

From talking with a Lutheran friend a few years ago, they believe in faith only is necessary for salvation, but that you will be doing works if you actually do have faith. You still aren't getting out of doing good things and avoiding bad. There is still an obligation. You just take a different path to end up doing the same actions. Presbyterians may believe similar to that. Not maineline protestant myself though- noninstitutional Church of Christ. We believe in needing works and faith.

@@aliengoboom-t9k In Poland we have a word "neck-breaking logic" and I think in English the word is Convoluted. I see this kind of logic as quite convoluted. "Your deeds do not save you, but if you are saved you will do good deeds" = convoluted logic.

[@solarwind3656]

because you are part of the WEF

[@ptstouring49]

Move to Kansas, join RPCNA

[@davesargent8748]

Zoomer, can you make a video responding to Protestants who claim that the catholic teaching of works + faith is heretical? Been thinking about this one as a Presbyterian, as the concept of contributing to your salvation by staying in a state of grace through sacraments is puzzling.

[@redeemedzoomer6053]

it's not heretical, still dangerously wrong tho

[@noahfranks2892]

How do I join the server?

[@hitmansoapy9407]

You mention Presbyterians gives give 100% of the credit for salvation to God. I don’t see how non Calvinist don’t do the same. Faith is not a work you don’t get any credit for faith.

[@DaveMelonfire]

Unfortunately though they have a false notion that *we* make it a work just because of the words, "Yes, Lord, I know that you did everything for me on the cross, so now that I believe, I want to recieve that salvation." They think we make it a work somehow when Paul clearly states that faith is *not* a work. Never has been and never will be. It's about God 100% no matter who you talk to in the Kingdom, people just get hung up on presuppositions and odd notions about the grace and mercy given to all by God.

[@markedone1792]

What you think about Sam Shamoun?

[@PauTheDeo]

free hudman

[@talknojutsu193]

😮

[@JoWilliams-ud4eu]

😮

[@GencenFide]

😮

[@Thatoneguy-pu8ty]

😮

[@TheRecapitulaitionist]

If in communion, only the elect receive the Body and Blood of Christ in communion, how can any eat in an unworthy manner? For "whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord" (1 Cor. 11:27). How can one profane the Body and Blood unworthily if one is not receiving it if they are unworthy i.e. not part of the Elect? Verse 29 makes it clear that they *are* receiving the body, "for any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself." The object of discernment is the food before them, which is his Body and Blood, regardless of whether they are part of the elect or not, as John Chrysostom, a Biblical Scholar and native Greek speaker of the 4th century says "But why does he eat judgment to himself? Not discerning the Lord's body: i.e., not searching, not bearing in mind, as he ought, the greatness of the things set before him; not estimating the weight of the gift. For if you should come to know accurately Who it is that lies before you, and Who He is that gives Himself, and to whom, you will need no other argument, but this is enough for you to use all vigilance; unless you should be altogether fallen." This is why those who unworthily receive it then "are weak and ill, and some have died." This is Christocentrism at the cost of the Scriptures, which isn't really Christocentricism at all.

[@EfrLuviano]

How does one join KingdomCraft????

[@nerdy_crawfish]

Is the pink sheep thing just a skit or did someone actually troll you on your own server?

[@CDog-f7k]

its a skit people cant build there unless there him on the server

[@decoydave]

What do you mean by receiving the true body and blood of Christ during communion? Do you mean it becomes actual flesh and blood somehow, just trying to understand. For me in Luke 22:19 Jesus said ...do this in remembrance of me. So I do, I remember what he did for us; bled, died and rose again and all that that means for us. So I guess it's symbolic to me. Good video by the way.

[@BernardinusDeMoor]

I (also a presbyterian) would say that the bread and wine are not literally Jesus, but at the same time is also a means for us to truly partake of Jesus. I think that we, in general, in the Christian life, feed on Christ by faith (see John 6:35 etc.), and that the Lord's Supper is a particular means that especially offers that to us.

[@Nic_Huyzers]

i missed the upload

[@gabesmith9171]

Presbyterian polity is ancient and apostolic

[@stevenjames6830]

Hilarious

[@gabesmith9171]

@ elder led congregations vs a monarchical episcopate 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@galladite4924]

@@gabesmith9171 Presbyterian try not to call Priests "Elders" and pretend it's the plain translation of the Greek for 5 minutes challenge (impossible)

[@FromElsewhear]

You still need to do one or two more why I'm not videos. Maybe redo an older one?

[@Gnug1973]

First, keep up the good work

[@JoWilliams-ud4eu]

Based

[@AoH3_King]

Silly zoomer

[@Kuyakellytv]

Jesus is Lord.

[@DailyBible]

Bro, do you accept double predestination?

[@Thatoneguy-pu8ty]

He does. He is a Presbyterian.

[@DailyBible]

@Thatoneguy-pu8ty Recently some Presbyterian folks claimed to me that they do not believe in double predestination any longer.. I said then you were not a Presbyterian ---am I right or wrong?

[@simeonyves5940]

@@DailyBible You are right, as they are rejecting the Bible! Let alone Rejecting the (insignificant by comparison to Rejecting to the Bible) 1646 Westminster Confession of Faith!

[@DailyBible]

@@simeonyves5940 thx Btw, The Bible is Catholic book :p

[@simeonyves5940]

@@DailyBible Only in Dan Browns Imagination :p

[@ZubairHossain-y7i]

Hey Redeemed Zoomer, why do you hate anime and otaku so much? Well, I am a neutral person but videos are made about it. So what do you think?

[@newme1589]

I used to hate anime, until i watched Baki and Hajime no Ippo. They are fighting anime/manga so i dunno if some would consider that sinful, but they are incredibly deep, very well written, and it taught me to be less of a p*ssy to put it plainly haha

[@iishadowii7477]

Sexual themes are built into the core of most popular animes.

[@ZubairHossain-y7i]

@iishadowii7477 Yeah, but not all anime are sexual stuff.

[@iishadowii7477]

@ZubairHossain-y7i such as?

[@ZubairHossain-y7i]

@@iishadowii7477 like oshi no ko, spy x family, your name and so on.

[@micahbannister1287]

I want to be, so so badly. You changed my mind on infant baptism, you changed my mind on church structure and music, and you reinforced what I already believed about covenant theology and eschatology. But the ultimate message of the Bible is sharing the gospel, and Presbyterian soteriology actively undermines it. (And when plugged into a truth table gives you either Universalism or evil God.) You can still be an awesome Christian and share the gospel anyway, but you will be doing so in spite of (and with great intellectual contradiction to) your official stance on things. Plus, you make questions that are insanely easy for the Lutheran or Arminian (problem of evil) into either insanely callous or insanely insufficient answers because of your commitment to a bad exegesis of Romans 9. If a non double predestination version of Presbyterian existed, I'd be there in a heartbeat. But though they are trying to honor God, they do the gospel far too dirty for me to go with them.

[@Thatoneguy-pu8ty]

You might like Methodism

[@micahbannister1287]

@@Thatoneguy-pu8ty Probably! I live in Albuquerque though, and I don't think there are any conservative Methodist churches around me. I'm at a non denom church because it has very good theology for being non denom, but I would say my theology lines up most with Lutheran or Methodist if I were to look for a new one someday

[@Thatoneguy-pu8ty]

@@micahbannister1287 That’s crazy I live in ABQ too! I too go to a nondenominational church, but like you I’ve become a little more classically Protestant in my theology as well. Interesting that you mentioned Lutheranism because I do have a deep interest in it right now.

[@micahbannister1287]

@@Thatoneguy-pu8ty Bro! That's awesome! What church do you go to? And yeah, Lutheranism has my heart, though not my church attendance

[@Thatoneguy-pu8ty]

@@micahbannister1287 I go to Calvary right now. But I’m actually going to go to a Lutheran service tomorrow. There is an LCMS church called “Grace Lutheran” on the east side that I found from Zoomer’s church map.

[@FissileThomist]

RZ misrepresenting Catholic ecclesiology yet again! Sad!

[@7th_blessing]

Can you talk about andrew tate, Joel olstien and with new age false gospels? Another thing i was wondering is how you do all you're research and gain all the knowledge for your videos?

[@VictoriousCatholic]

Here’s my main problem with reformed theology besides the rampant anti-Catholicism (yes it’s there, even in the Westminster Confession): It’s saying the church succumbed to the powers of hell, something Christ said would not happen. So which is it: did hell prevail against Christs church or did it not?

[@JoWilliams-ud4eu]

They don't believe the church was overcome by hell. It was always there just with corruptions. A church alongside corruption is different than a church of only corruption.

[@VictoriousCatholic]

@ but that’s still hell prevailing, and that still contradicts Jesus

[@JoWilliams-ud4eu]

@VictoriousCatholic no, that bad things existing on this earth alongside good things. The true church and errors can coexist.

[@VictoriousCatholic]

@ again, not a question of that. Christ asked the Apostles who they say the Son of Man is. They gave several answers but none of them were right. Only Peter gave the right answer. That’s who Christ built the church on, not someone 1400 plus years later

[@JoWilliams-ud4eu]

@VictoriousCatholic the church is still built on Peter and his right belief. We both agree that the Bible will tell us the right beliefs about God, and we both agree that men can make mistakes. Basically, if we both agree on this premise, then reforming ourselves away from human error by the word of God would be correct. But you think the Bible promises that the church will be preserved from ALL error. I think the Bible promises that the church will not be overcome by hell. Errors existing alongside the church are not the same as the church being overcome by the gates of hell.

[@iron_vicuna6784]

Schismatic ahh denomination 💀

[@pepehaydn7039]

Eres presbiteriano por endurecimiento de corazón.

The problem with the whole idea is that Judas was one of the elect, but he chose to refuse it. Christ literally chose him as one of his disciples.

[@pedroguimaraes6094]

Judas was chosen by Jesus as an apostle, but that doesn't mean he was one of God's elect. Being an apostle was a role in God's plan, not a guarantee of salvation. Jesus Himself said in John 6:70, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.” Judas had a purpose in God's sovereign plan-to betray Jesus and fulfill prophecy (John 17:12). However, salvation isn’t about roles or positions; it’s about being chosen by God for eternal life, which Judas clearly was not. His actions show that he was never transformed by grace, unlike the other apostles.

@@pedroguimaraes6094 But that's Arianism patrick.

[@pedroguimaraes6094]

How?

@@pedroguimaraes6094 For the same reason why Mary is mother of God.

[@pedroguimaraes6094]

Thats makes no sense at all lol

[@pedroguimaraes6094]

What people think being a 'Trad American' means: Attending a high-church, super liturgical, hierarchical church like Roman Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy. What being a 'Trad American' actually means: Singing Psalms in a low/middle Calvinist church , like the Puritans or Presbyterians.

[@JoWilliams-ud4eu]

Just add the higher church Baptist churches to the second option, and you're spot on.

[@redeemedzoomer6053]

INSANELY based

[@noahtylerpritchett2682]

Half true. It also includes Methodism

[@Thatoneguy-pu8ty]

Most of the founding fathers were Anglican tho (not an Anglican just thought I’d point it out)

[@drjanitor3747]

Yeah so being trad American doesn’t mean Christian.

[@drjanitor3747]

You’re Presbyterian because some heretic a few hundred years ago decided to reject the church that Christ established and form his own sect. And many mindless people followed him.

[@DZDW1]

Which heretic are you talking about?

[@drjanitor3747]

@@DZDW1 how is it not obvious?

[@DZDW1]

@@drjanitor3747 if you mean Luther your statement makes no sense

[@drjanitor3747]

@@DZDW1 🤦‍♀️

[@TheNabOwnzz]

I'm really interested to know what your purpose is here. All you seem to do is whine about Protestantism, though you never give any real reason for it and never try to refute any comment, so it can't be that you're solely looking for an argument. This seems to me a paradox; i really cannot understand psychologically what moves you to this.

[@Christ-is-my-1ord2]

Hi (second)

[@Christ-is-my-1ord2]

Second

[@Thatoneguy-pu8ty]

Question for Lutherans out there: Why doesn’t the Lutheran tradition accept double predestination? Luther was an Augustinian monk, right? Why wouldn’t he hold to an Augustinian predestination?

[@Sonicmax8728]

@@Thatoneguy-pu8ty neither St Augustine nor Augustinians hold to double predestination

[@theheroofmagicical628]

I thought you wer Calvinist?

[@JoWilliams-ud4eu]

Presbyterians are Calvinist.

[@tking2199]

It was predestined for you to believe he is not.