Why 'I Saw the TV Glow' Didn't Say "Transgender"

[@sapphichazard]

The lack of use of the term also served, at least as an older (40+) tran, to cause it to resonate DEEPLY with my own childhood. It reminded me of knowing who I am, but not having the language to describe it.

[@nikoteardrop4904]

The chalk "There's still time" hit hard

[@nicked_fenyx]

This was a big part of it for me, too. As another 40-something trans person, this film wrecked me. Knowing something about myself but not being able to express it growing up was a key part of why this film resonated so strongly. I still would have related in general if the film had specifically used the term "transgender," but it would have lost some of its punch. For sure.

[@thecatoninetales]

Wanted to say the same thing. Yes, not saying "trans" broadens the experience for others to relate to (and thus maybe helps them better understand what we felt, one can hope), but the whole movie had that looming sense of "Knowing what is right, but not knowing how to describe it, not knowing that what is right for you is also possible" that I spent most of my life with.

[@pirsquar58]

Likewise. My egg cracked when I was 38. I'm now 42, and so much happier. My mother always knew I "wasn't like other boys" but in the suburbs of the 80's, we didn't have the language to figure it out. That's why it's so vital that continue to talk about gender identity, so the trans kids don't have to wait 30 years to be themselves.

[@rinkuraku5251]

I had the same issue. Like if I were growing up today, I think I'd be able to find the words. Back then though? I had no idea there were other people like me out there. I couldn't explain it. I knew that I'm a girl inside, but I clearly had boy parts on the outside. I tried telling my parents but my mother just cut me off and told me I looked ridiculous in a dress. So I repressed who I am until I was in my forties and on the verge of ending it all.

[@Smedium]

Some people I saw really appreciated the word not being used because it kind of represents how Justice Smith's character doesn't have words to describe their experience.

[@CandGoods]

Some people really just don't get art. The fact that the movie never explicitly broaches trans issues by name is part of the artfulness to the film, the people who understand that message read it loud and clear, but its also a movie that is telling a story that is open to interpretation and people can take other meanings from. Like, as a trans woman I very much got the inherently trans nature of the story, but I also got from it the complacent suffocating nature of life in the suburbs, like, I often feel very trapped living out in the suburbs, a greater sense of trans/queer community locally is just out of reach, located more into the cities. Maddy escaped the suburbs, Owen didn't, and Owen is slowly dying as a result of never getting out.

[@josephlikely3849]

I'm a cis man, but I identified very strongly with that movie because of how Owen/Isabel can also be read as autistic and masking. Obviously not as focused on as the trans metaphor but I found that to be another really good aspect of the movie.

[@LordSlithor]

That's also how I chose to look at it. I'm also cis and straight, but I'm on the spectrum, and for me Owen checked off all the boxes. So for me it could be read as much as an allegory for the neurodivergent experience as much as the trans experience, which is an equally valid take IMO as there's documented overlap between the two.

[@phillipmessier4371]

The idea of signifiers as defining individuals identity is an interesting thing to me as I had something like that happen to me. I work in a HS and I wore a T-shirt that said "defend trans youth" the other day and I had a couple of 12th grade students ask me if I was trans because of it (I am a cis man). I ended up explaining it to them and the conversation went very well but it surprised me that the idea that someone can't advocate for a community that they aren't a part of themselves. I do have plenty of trans and queer family and friends, but I at least would like to think that I would still be just as supportive of other identities even without such people in my life.

[@Marsyas01]

This movie broke me. There's one scene towards the end. It involves street graffiti. When I read what was written there, I just started bawling.

[@Fren-m3i]

I was so grateful that I came out and was past the medical gatekeeping part of transitioning before seeing this movie. If I had to hear them say "I'm dying right now" while I was still feeling stuck in my situation it would have absolutely destroyed me emotionally.

[@jadeIntherough]

This movie meant so much to me. I've never felt like a movie understood me like I saw the tv glow did.

[@gamineglass]

I’m a cis mom of a trans daughter. I thought this film was powerful and moving. I also related to it myself as a very late diagnosed autistic person. The need to make community with people who relate to our experiences is crucial to our wellbeing, I think

[@electronics-girl]

I'm glad you got it! My mom is very supportive, but she didn't understand the film at all. She didn't recognize the trans allegory. I was a bit disappointed.

[@radicalpasta7040]

In my opinion, queer allegories are very important. For people who are questioning there identity, allegory can be a safe place for exploration. I am non-binary. As a kid, I remember really connecting to and liking the character Stevonnie from Steven Universe, so much so that I wanted to cosplay as them. At the time, I didn't know why I connected to them so strongly, I just did. That show has the magical concept of fusion and Stevonnie is a fusion of Steven and Connie. At the time I watched that show, my understanding of trans people was very limited. But even though I don't think in the show they use the word trans, the fusion character of Stevonnie helped to explore my gender identity. There are other fictional character that helped crack my egg, like Xavin from Marvel's Runaways. But Stevonnie was big for me. Of course, we always need more real canon obvious LGBTQ representation. Im not against representation. I just think queer allegories can exist in addition to that.

[@sapphic.flower]

Exactly this. I always connected strongly with characters who were gender queer coded like Haruka from Sailor Moon way before finding out I’m gender queer myself. But when I learnt of identities outside of the binary, I couldn’t wrap my head around it and I was sadly in very centrist anti-sjw (or what’s now called anti-woke) spaces at the time. I wasn’t ready to confront my trans-ness yet which is what makes representation that was more coded or symbolic rather than direct more digestible for me at the time. Of course part of that is because of transphobia and censorship but I think media and characters who don’t rely on using labels are genuinely helpful for questioning queer people.

[@BlackXSunlight]

Some people truly don't have the capacity or skill to engage with art. Steven Universe was made for children and even THAT was too much for some people. Moral ambiguity?? A complicated past?? Good heavens, I'm going to faint! We need allegory. There's a reason it's been a key part of storytelling since the dawn of civilization.

[@kc-fr3qp]

I'm happy it didn't say "transgender" because it makes the metaphors and themes stronger. I might be bias but I don't like when stories tell you what they are vs show you. To contrast this a book I tried reading, Manhunt, I kinda hated that the author wrote the villains of that novel as "the TERFS" instead of a different name. Which they were but because the author told me up front that these were TERFS I didn't really care to get to know or understand the villains. There was nothing there for me to figure them out on my own. I was told what they were from the start, mystery over. Also outside of the trans allegory the film also works as metaphor for settling in an unfulfilled life. What does Owen do once his friend leaves? Works minimum wage jobs with a family we never see and watches TV. I get depressed if I repeat that cycle too much. This is all Owen does. The themes of alienation the film explores too are fascinating. Edit: Should movies be enjoyable to be good? I think another jane flick, "We're all going to the world's fair", answers this question perfectly. No, they don't need to be. If I'm watching a film and I walk away feeling uneased and thinking about it for a week then it did its job.

[@thequeeragender]

I'm trans, and very much understood the movie as being a trans metaphor, but I related to the dying inside message of the movie much more in terms of the normative life that I was taught, growing up, i was supposed to live in this capitalist society: mind numbing job under a boss, getting married, having kids, buying stuff, keeping appearances for the sake of others, etc. - and I'm sure many cis (and other trans) people could relate to that as well and so maybe that was the intent of the director (and not just something they said to execs to get the movie made): there are many soul crushing ways this society wants us to conform, and it can be really hard or impossible to get out of that (after all, capitalism is everywhere).

[@l.p.5703]

I think it successfully expressed that the main character was trans. But even then, I think the movie worked on a broad existential level. I’m not trans but I found this movie to be so relatable.

[@VeRtb14]

As a person, whose "egg" finally cracked at 34 and started transitioning at 35 with a childhood in different part of the world but in a small town in 90s, movie was so relatable, painful and beautiful. I rarely rewatch moveis but I rewatched it next week. I guess it's my favourite movie ever now. And that scene with King Woman playing...😊

[@llauram3650]

I've made a video game about a trans character (If Found...) and it's been played by a couple hundred thousand people I think. And in the game it never explictly says that Kasio is trans (those exact words would have been really uncommon in Ireland in the 90s) it's p obvious to people who have familiarity with trans or lgbt stuff. However, there are a large number of players who don't realise it's a trans story, but relate to other parts of the story, and I think that's really awesome. And it's because Kasio is human! Her story is about way more than just 'being trans'. It's about depression, parental pressure, making friends, etc etc. I so agree that it sucks for things to be pigeon-holed by biographical details of the creator (eg, anything made by a woman is automatically turned into -> this must be biographical), and we're all just human. I think great art when it gets at something true is reinterpretable like that, and it can make experiences of one person understandable to another. Love TV Glow.

[@llauram3650]

And like it's sad if shut others or ourself out of experiences because we think 'oh, this isn't made for me'.

[@marigolden_mariposa]

I Saw the TV Glow was the best movie I've seen in 5+ years. It spoke to my soul. I loved every detail. I think it's a masterpiece

[@Magus__Quinn]

As a black transfemme, being forced to watch the main character of this film be tortured for the entire runtime was wild. The trans folks of color I know all hated how the director/writer(s) completely ignored the intersection of race and gender. White viewers loved it, but many mixed race/people of color whether trans or not basically watched a re-enactment of their traumas. It was a pretty film, but god I wish it were made with more sensitivity and respect for the black trans experience rather than creating a false equivalent between the two main characters' situations. Also from reddit, to discord, to tumblr, and even in person I've seen white queers dogpile people of color for bringing this up. "You just didnt get the film" lmao sorry, we got the film- we literally lived it

[@normal_user-bx5jc]

Would you mind elaborating a little? I kind of see what you mean, but I feel like I'm still missing some parts of what you're saying.

[@normal_user-bx5jc]

No biggie if you don't feel like it, I get that. I'm just curious.

[@kimikaami8498]

Mostly replying bc I’m also curious and want to be notified if you do choose to respond

[@nanabeebel-hz3xx]

Mm why do you think it ignored the intersection? As a POC myself, I could see myself really relating to the struggle and the trauma was there but I didn’t think it lacked sensitivity

[@dimentoplexitronum4923]

Oh wow thank you for letting me know this!! That’s not your brain rot reading, it’s objectively true and it should ruin for for everyone else 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@theamazingbatboy]

I struggled to write this, but it's an important film and worth it. I'm a white cis, male living in a liberal, advanced economy, with all the advantages in the world. I _also_ used to be a teenager, wrestling with 'alternative' or counterculture views on the world, with an atypical upbringing in the 90's-and I ABSOLUTELY F*** LOVED this film! Now, I don't know diddly-squat about the struggles of gay and transgender folks (even if one of my best friends and roommates in young adulthood overdosed because his family couldn't accept him; or when I met one of my childhood mates on a bus where she announced her identity change), doesn't matter. I'm just a lucky dude who can only _empathise_ with what going through this kind of transition-at this incredibly tumultuous time of your life, is like. All that said, what I can say is this: If this amazing movie had overtly broadcast everything as a transgender or sexual identity experience, I would've felt hugely unqualified to identify with it. I wouldn't go so far as to say that it would've been alienating but I certainly wouldn't have felt able to comment on it on a forum like this. I think it's important the movie makes an emotional point and promotes discussion for anyone who's grown up feeling detached from the social norm and who can relate to that feeling. The fact the subtext refers to a major modern social change just makes the global appeal of the film stronger imho.

[@thisurldoesnotexist]

Technically two of Spiderman's classmates are trans, but one of them was in the films pre-transition. I always thought they should bring her back after the snap and be like "so much happened in those five years, some people are even living as their true selves now" but that would require them to be overtly queer and they're not going to do that

[@MoramothHauntz]

And if they did it be a quick thing that could be cut out. Sad thing is a Spidey movie is a guaranteed hit. So they could do it and still be insanely profitable

[@aila6814]

and thats beyond frustrating, because spider-man especially has been very queer friendly in the comics.

[@BonJoviBeatlesLedZep]

Wait what? I know he had a trans dude classmate but which other character was played by a trans actor?

[@thisurldoesnotexist]

@@BonJoviBeatlesLedZep Josie Totah, she was in the Saved by The Bell reboot and also Spiderman Homecoming

[@andimason3370]

One of the reasons I really liked Insomniacs Spider-Man is because it actually did start to have representation a bit more overtly. It's still all small roles (I mean let's not get too crazy!) but many of the side-quests really lean into Spider-mans more progressive themes. The most explicit example is that side-quest where you help a trans-guy with his plan to ask his boyfriend out to homecoming which was just the cutest thing really. All in all I was actually really impressed by just how many minority groups and other struggling demographics that game periodically gave centre stage to, and it was all done with such kindness as-well.

[@OllamhDrab]

Sometimes a metaphor is more relatable if it's allowed to remain a metaphor. I could also see it being problematic to have a horror movie premised on 'YOu're a trans kid, you should ...unalive yourself to fix everything.' At least if we start having to have things be literal, that has implications. At least we probably would want to keep it metaphorical there. Cause, the literal topic suddently gets a lot different from the metaphor if you start spelling it out. Remember a lot of people only see a surface level of anything. If you spell some things out they think they know. When it comes to 'representation,' maybe some of that's best when it's modelling how people should treat each other. Trying to use art to convey experience, well, you know much of this. But there's different ways to go about it. And it may depend on the point of the art, too. It's kinda like with a lot of the Matrix stuff, you could say it took particular trans people to *create* that , but clearly its relatability isn't confined to 'This is trans, this is trans, this is trans,' ..when it was clearly powerful enough for enough other people to relate to that the Right felt the need to try and appropriate it and flip the narrative. I suppose if fandom weren't so toxic it might be easy to say, 'Hey, you know, here's one of those trans people saying all kinds of people feel kinda gaslit by the system too, right? ' And I guess the spiederverse stuff didn't stick in my head well enough, but I recall at the time, 'Yeah, this could be an already-strained relationship about a trans kid, ' but yeah, I could directly relate to it on the level of 'OK , queer Noertheastern police brat with a sideline in some extralegal do-gooding.' Trying to protect someone's career against secondhand stigma, all that. The cookouts were less socially-inclusive back then But still a relatable story.

[@Mallory-Malkovich]

If they say 'trans' outright then the movie becomes a sermon, or a diary of some painful experiences a character had. But by not _saying_ it, but walking the audience right up to the line - making us live through the experience of being trapped in your egg step by painful step - that's where the fear of the film comes from. It's scary because for some people, they can look right at it - right at _us_ - and not see. The reaction of the cis audience is _part of the horror_ of the film.

[@l.p.5703]

I sometimes find that people who like poetic, metaphoric movies hate direct narratives calling them dumb or vapid. And people who like direct, literal narratives describe cerebral films as pretentious or boring nonsense. Sometimes they are right but sometimes they simply don’t understand the other.

[@Dave102693]

I usually like it down the middle. Don’t obfuscate what you are trying to say, but don’t do a The CW and beat me over the head either.

[@l.p.5703]

@@Dave102693 the CW 😂 I hear you. I think a good example is Annihilation. Could be a straight forward alien movie or a film about how we all become a part of the people we experience trauma with, ending up the same person but changed, sometimes unrecognizable to ourselves and loved ones.

[@Starbush69]

It’s a movie that I feel like anyone could relate to on an emotional level whether you’re trans or cis. If this came out in the late 2010s, I would’ve bawled my f*ckin eyes out in the theater cause one of my jobs at the time was a theater usher, which were my pre egg hatching days. The person who got me that job was my internship program teacher who felt like a father to me. I felt like he understood me on an emotional level compared to my biological father. He actually cared about my love for cinema, which is why he got me that job. And we bonded like father and son over movies and shows that we liked. Things seemed to be going good in my life for the most part, until he tragically passed in 2018. Like Owen, I kept working at the theater job acting like things were fine, even though I was slowly dying inside cause the magic was gone. I didn’t feel like myself anymore. No matter when this film came out, I would’ve found something I could relate to. Either way, I Saw The TV Glow hit me with a flood of emotions. It didn’t have to spell out the word “Trans” in order for trans people to relate to it cause the visuals show the struggle of what most of us deal with through metaphors. If a story can affect you on an emotional level, then it’s doing something right.

[@clashcitywannabe]

Im a transfemme and while i can see the very obvious trans allegory i found the other allegory present in the film to be more significant and that allegory was about losing someone you care about to suicide. A very dear friend of mine (who for what its worth was a transman) took his own life a year ago and the film captured the feelings ive had in the time since very vividly. In that sense it utterly wrecked me.

[@VeRtb14]

@@clashcitywannabe but Maddie didn't killed herself

[@clashcitywannabe]

@VeRtb14 my interpretation of the film was that she had and her appearances after her initial disappearance were the main character's imagination and that her miraculously returning was a matter of them wrestling with that as much as their own gender issues

[@AeonZhang]

​@@clashcitywannabe🌟 Sorry for your loss. Take Care ✨🫂🫂🫂✨ 💫✨🌟❤️🌟✨💫

[@guin705]

​@clashcitywannabe while my interpretation differs, I can definitely see it this way! The nature of her return is certainly metaphoric due to the supernatural elements in the narrative, so its cool seeing a different thematic takeaway!

[@AnxiousGary]

Oh that's a really interesting interpretation, I can totally see it. Best wishes from Florida ❤

[@IsaacMyers1]

I personally don’t believe movies need to be enjoyable. As an autistic nonbinary person, I have extremely complicated feelings about being an adult (I’m 23), puberty, and the passage of time. Personally, the movie adaptation of “where the wild things are” is one of my favorite movies, and I’ll never watch it again. That movie hurts to watch, but that’s why it’s so good. I have always found it nearly impossible to “relate” to characters, not in a lack of empathy or understanding kind of way, but in a elementary school “which character do you relate to most/ find yourself to be most like” kind of way. That movie proved to me that I actually do have that ability, and that I desperately want to be 12 again.

[@cherrynorthful]

I think it’s important that you can read Owen’s story many ways. But also so much of the film is these signals that Owen fails to see, warning that this world is not real and is a literal death trap. So I think it’s fitting that even Owen’s identity is something to which they have only clues, not an explicit understanding.

[@dbandia]

I think it may be a near universal experience. My dad used to say something like, "everybody wants to be exceptional but they're afraid they're not even average." I've often wondered if depression\melancholy is really a brain screaming that something fundamental in that specific life needs to change, but people feel trapped in their current reality and feel like changing what needs to change - even if they know what that is - would mean killing off a part of themselves and they're too afraid to do it.

[@k0pstl939]

I watched on nebula yesterday and just wanted to add that I feel like the concept of art being enjoyable doesn't 100% mean that our society thinks it's good. For example I really enjoyed the new ant man movie, but most would say it was bad.

[@searchingfororion]

To touch a bit more on "glitch identity" (both the concepts you quoted here and in that video essay as well as the overall concept of that lens): ~Also potential spoilers for the film though I feel I am being vague enough. ~ Samantha Luxe had an interesting and unique takeaway from her viewing as she was able to go to a screening with a Q&A with the creative team for the film afterward and this was how I first learned about the film. When I watched your essay discussing various "glitch" films I couldn't help but think that certain aspects of the fate befalling that of the James Woods character sounded a bit similar to that of the lead character near the end of I Saw The TV Glow (though obviously for very different reasons, yet possibly your direct statement of what the "effect" symbolized could be considered rather similar and the first thing that came to mind when you described it). The connection my mind made - in addition to the literal message written on the road, which many have seen as a sign of hope/potential of a positive outcome of Owen as Isabel is something that became a *higher* plausibility to me after watching your essay than merely "seeking a silver lining" by those whom were heavily affected by a difficult narrative. After all, if the obsession with one program for purely self-serving reasons at the sacrifice of all else can transform someone, why can't one assist someone in transforming to serve themselves? TLDR; This is why representation and seeing yourself matters.

[@nathanielraefraughton5218]

This movie was fascinating to me, although I didn’t have the same visceral reaction to it that I’ve seen others talk about. I wasn’t emotionally destroyed by it but I couldn’t stop thinking about it for a long time. I think not specifying trans is a good decision. In every other way this film is very overtly trans but by not tying it directly to that experience by naming it, it can allow those who are not trans to see the trans themes but also feel the universality of some of these experiences, and hopefully enabling them to see that being trans isn’t as foreign a concept as they might think it is. Maybe that’s too hopeful, I’m sure plenty will willfully miss the trans themes entirely, but inviting a wider audience into the experience seems like a good idea to me.

[@AthenaEryma]

This is one of the biggest things I love about science fiction: it gives us a framework for talking about politicized traits disconnected from the politicization. That's not always a positive, but it's also what gave me a pathway out of the empathy black hole that is the US right wing that I was raised in. If you say "transgender", now people are thinking about in those terms, which invokes mental training/prejudice to cut off empathy - if you can get people to empathize with a character, *then* connect it to a real identity, it cuts through a lot of rhetoric.

[@Frosty7575]

This movie hit me so hard. It didn't need to say the word "trans", and honestly I think it is more powerful for not saying it. As someone who is very much in Owen's shoes, seeing this movie nearly brought me to my knees. The final scene was so, visceral, for lack of any other word. Such a powerful movie and so very important.

[@IzzieJellyfish]

I think it really works in the film's favour just from a textual level, because to me it looks like the experience the film is depicting is one of knowing that there is a problem but not looking at it too hard and hoping it will go away on its own. Since it's all filtered through Owen's perspective, and Owen is keeping busy and distracted and never allows themself the space to really think about gender, then it works to never make it explicit. I think it speaks to Schoenbrun's talent as a director that even though Owen never realises what's wrong, the audience can see the problem and the solution clear as day.

[@Cdr2002]

I realize it was the 90s and they probably couldn’t, but DS9’s Rejoined never says any of the terms and is still amazing. I’m 23, bisexual, and masc genderfluid. I wanted to clarify because I don’t want to sound like an old boomer who thinks all the queer words are too much and that our profess should come with dismissing identifying tools. I do however respect artistry and it’s cool to have a character be obviously trans without it being said

[@djhinton79]

I will admit, i did originally see you as "The" Trans youtuber when i found your channel while looking for reviews on Discovery. I no longer see that as your defining youtube characteristic. You've expanded my understanding of many aspects of the LGBTQ+ community. I've always been an ally, and you've grown past that original moniker I originally understood to be your "niche.". Anyway, I just wanted to give you your flowers.

[@boodleboy]

Without having seen the video yet - not explicitly saying "it's about transgender people" makes it more relatable for people who face different issues in society that have similar dynamics. Me as an example, I'm low support needs autistic, very late diagnosis, struggled through young adulthood very significantly. I always felt a strong sense of solidarity for people with identities that were outside of social "norms", because the sense of exclusion was something I experienced as well, if for different reasons. I could relate a lot to the film, even though I understood it wasn't directly aimed at my kind of life experience.

[@mmem4264]

As soon as I saw him in a dress it clicked in my head what was going on and that this was a trans allegory, but everything before that was personally a slog. I never thought the word transgender was necessary though again going in blind was a mistake for me personally. But the points you mentioned especially about trans characters and treatments of trans writers was interesting. I did get that vibe from KZbinr Lily Simpson, that they wanted to branch out to other topics besides just transgendered videos. Reminds me of Steven King feeling pigeon holed to the point he wrote Misery. Thank you for sharing this.

[@poomar]

This movie is so well done. It hurts to watch but it hasn't really left my mind since I saw it. I didn't know it was a trans story going in, I thought it was gonna be something completely different, but once I realized what it was doing it really hit me as one of the most effective pieces of horror I've ever seen. I don't think it needed to say trans, it was all there on screen.

[@ShiftylittleDemon]

Allegories tend to be best when they don't have to tell the reader they're allegories Take Beastars for example. There are few characters that are stated to be queer, and none of them are the main cast, and yet you can feel the undertones throughout the story. Legoshi never needed to say he was bisexual for people to see it in his chemistry with Louis, and vice versa, hell the closest they come to stating they're queer is when Legoshi says he's attracted to herbivores and Louis says he loves carnivores There's so much more littered throughout the series and the spinoff that makes it more obvious, and never once is the word "queer" spoken nor do any of the characters state that they are queer I love the way it works as an allegory a lot. It's inspired some of my own writing as well, though there are a lot more queer characters in it, so while the overarching themes are allegorical, there are smaller struggles sprinkled in that are more overt

[@mjhenkel1984]

i loved this movie. the soundtrack was killer too.

[@bridgetteryan5876]

Yet... it's funny, as a fellow trans person, in my mind you are the Star trek person.

[@GoddessLadyRei]

As soon as the girl said she got beat by her parent for being herself I immediately knew that was her trying to set escape from Owen. That is why she disappeared the first time. He locked her away inside himself out of fear of society judging them. She showed herself one last time trying to be free from Owen, so Owen can be her true self, but in the end he killed her off permanently. I transitioned in 2020. I had a hard time adjusting because I had to be this male version to protect my true self from society. So, I cried a lot. Torn between who people wanted me to be and who I really was. So, finally it was time for me to let the protector go. I took him out for his last meal at Sappor's since sushi was his favorite. Afterwards I laid him to rest, and I have been Lady Rei ever since. No regrets.

[@nancyjay790]

The point about pigeon holing done by the Money People in Hollywood is so incredibly good. I think people can do that in life. Every human is more than one part of them. Right wingers often screech about the Left pigeon holing them. (Although other things about a number of Right wingers are said in bad faith, so I grant that it's difficult to sometimes want to extend the courtesy of treating their words as coming from a genuine place.) But I do concede that many people have so many different parts of themselves which are expressed at different times and places as appropriate. Comic con isn't the place for your stamp collection, probably. A date with your partner isn't the time to play a solo online game. Possibly. Thank you for the video. 😺

[@ronoc9]

It reminds me of how a lot of people missed the fact that the white family in "Get Out" are liberals, not conservatives, and how it's that quiet, "polite" racism that endangers the main character. Ironically, it would have been the overtly racism that would have saved him from nearly being trapped in the sudden place, because it would have been so inexcusable that he wouldn't have accepted it and been lulled into the family home. Is Get Out about racism, yes, but it's more specifically about racial fetishism, the civility that protects and masks white supremacy, and the indoctrination of black Americans to forgive insensitive language as well meaning, even at the expense of their own safety. In not giving up its hand completely, it allowed the message, textual and subtextual, to sink in further, and get past people's defenses, ensuring the people who needed to hear the message the most weren't closed off from the beginning.

[@nanabeebel-hz3xx]

I think the fact that they did not say explicitly trans was good in the way you can really relate the themes explored to many queer experiences and struggles. And tbh I love the fact that this movie really encouraged the use of “show dont tell”, I feel it treats the audience with respect

[@wehpudicabok6598]

I liked it, for what that's worth. Even though I felt like what I saw in it wasn't exactly myself, it was someone I knew, so to speak. But then, community isn't about finding mirrors, it's about finding neighbors.

[@ClaraDarko]

The movie takes place in the 90s, when I lived my teen years, and back then, the word "transgender" didn't even exist. We barely even knew it was a possibility to be trans. I now know, at 43 years old, that I am a gender non conforming autistic person, and I relate deeply to Justice Smith's character and experience. As a teenager, I was obsessed with my favorite shows and movies, and I wanted to live in those worlds, not in the one I knew (a world that clearly didn't want me). I saw the TV glow was painful to watch, but also beautiful.

[@fatcat1414]

I think the general theme of 'everything you want is on the other side of fear' is a pretty hard-hitting one that shouldn't be summed up as solely a trans thing. Identity and yearning encompasses so many aspects of the self that I think it's best for ISTTVG to be a clear trans allegory while also never saying so out loud so cis viewers don't tune out the important messaging as not applicable to them. I have a cis friend whose personal reading of the movie was a sign to finally cut off her toxic family so she could live in the reality she wanted. She understood the trans reading just fine, but the space to personally interpret the story did wonders for her experience.

[@deathguitarist12]

I'm trans and didn't relate to the movie at all. Like I get what they were going for but I feel like it mostly appealed to trans folks who figured it in their adulthood. It was weird. I went in to the movie with high expectations and came out saying "that's it? Really?"

[@NeutralGenius]

yeah i was so upset by the end of this movie cus i related so much to maddy, and i couldn't understand why owen kept refusing the call. im 32 now and was out at 18 as trans. i've always been vocal about who i am cus that's how i had to fight

[@ladyliberty417]

I grew up in the ultimate suburb and relate deeply to the need to leave in order to become one’s true self- what ever that may be!! The journey itself often becomes art- the escape from a suffocating world ! Great discussion Jessie🥰 Ps- love Chris Stuckman!

[@thenewmase]

Anyone else finds it downright malignant how bigots used to say if you want gay characters you should create your own original media with gay characters and now that gay people are doing their own gay media they are trying to deny us even that?

[@literallyap0tat0-q7q]

Yes. You could've ended after the word "bigots" and my answer would still be a resounding yes, honestly.

[@electronics-girl]

The parachute thing was not just a '90s thing. We did the exact same thing when I was in elementary school in the early 1980s.

[@Progressunlikely]

I feel like this movie uses such specific strong sensual cues to like hypnotize the audience in to going back in time and reconnecting with those parts of yourself. Kind of reminded me of how Skinamarink works. It was so visceral, the parachute, voting machine, humming vending machines.

[@electronics-girl]

@@Progressunlikely Voting machines were cool! I guess they were heavy and hard to move around, though.

[@Progressunlikely]

@@electronics-girl also contributed to the whole "hanging chad" debacle of the 2000 election.

[@JasmineRGBLights]

I loved this movie (and agree that I don't think it needed to say Owen was trans for the character to... obviously be trans to anyone with eyes), although I initially struggled after watching it with the choice in the ending - NOT the one to end on an ambiguous note, which seemed more than appropriate for a character who had steadfastly avoided letting their egg be fully cracked for so long already - but with the choice to have that moment of final clarity come from an act of physical self-harm. Like, I get on both an intellectual level and from personal experience that coming to terms with your transness is a moment of sacrifice, of giving so many tangible things up in the hopes of something better that seems, in that moment, to be ephemeral. And so Owen cutting their body open to reveal the truth is on that level appropriate. But on a more literal level, where cutting one's self open with a box cutter would kill you, and where self-harm is an unfortunately common coping mechanism for many trans people that is often representative of their time in the closet... geez I kinda wish Schoenbrun had found a different way of showing Owen coming to a tentative understanding of themself.

[@athannyx6815]

This is not usually my movie type and I would not watch it again. But I am glad I watched it. I feel a lot of the fact it didn't speak directly about what it was about, although the director clearly stated the vision, was important. Because it allows the themes to resonate without a preconceived notion. Those who get it do. Those who don't, don't. Those who can't admit it it might be that step closer to understanding. This makes it easier for people to get it. It also makes it safer to get the message around those who don't. Who may be unsafe. It's a way to share the message. Edit: Just a note I am non-binary. I just do not like art house movies as a rule and there's a very queer tone that I also just am not the biggest fan of. But I don't have to like it for it to matter to people and for it to be a very important message.

[@user-my7zl8ol6b]

There's a long scene in this movie at the planetarium that made me experience some kind of panic attack. My body was shaking and tears were falling to such an extent that it almost scared me. I've watched a lot of films, but it's very rare that a movie has managed to resonate with me so strongly on emotional and literally physical level. I Saw the TV Glow is such an unique and astonishing achievement for queer cinema and especially for trans cinema.

[@mmem4264]

I wish I had gone into this movie knowing what it was about. Instead, I spent most of it bored out of my mind and confused. Except during the bleacher's scene, I got excited thinking he was asexual, and I could finally connect to the story, but I realized later I misunderstood the scene. I did resonate with his monologue as he rewatched the show though. I spent so much of this movie agreeing with his actions lol. Like no this chick seems crazy, don't follow her! Run! So the ending left me conflicted lol. It wasn't until I watched videos explaining what this movie was about that I was able to appreciate it more. While I understand the reasoning, I still think having an adult play his teenage self was jarring. And no, him spitting on the cotton candy was so unnecessary. Can you tell I’m a literal person. I do get it's about a vibe and that I'm not the target demographic, but I appreciate its message while not liking the film itself. Well now to watch your video!

[@melindasingleton7359]

After your last video about it, i was disappointed to find the film wasn't on any of the platforms i had access to. Now that its on Max (and i think Hulu too?) I'll definitely have to watch it!

[@Mrsierramist1]

I'm a teacher and I discuss Joseph Campbell every year. I've never thought about it through this lens. I'm supposed to touch on the monolith again next week. I guess I have some thinking on how to best approach that.

[@arambles1]

I found this movie pretty interesting in how i related to it, because even though nominally I am a lot more like Owen/Isabel, I found myself relating to Maddy/Tara a lot more. Maybe it’s the monologue she gives when she meets up with Owen after a long time, specifically the “i keep telling myself life isn’t supposed to be like this” bit

[@BustedHeart]

As other commenters have said, not saying trans in my opinion is part of the experience of transness. But I think the movie is /very/ pointed about it not being said. Like the name "The Pink Opaque", it's almost literally a queer "black box" idea. All a lot of people have and have had are the "idea" of queerness as an option, but since it is so culturally stigmatized and actively obscured it reaches the point of opaqueness when you only live in a cisheteronormative framework. For someone closeted to themself queerness is an idea without form. It is known but distant and happens for other people maybe. But for the main character, they don't know their own sense of self as it's been so deeply obscured that you can't even connect the word 'trans' to an idea you have of your own sense of self. They say so with the shoveled empty explanation. And I get that this might seem obvious but part of the black box of queerness is the words become obscured in this "midnight realm". They don't say gay either. Maddy says they like girls, but nobody says out loud to confirm they mean gay right? Like narratively I believe not saying trans is important because that's how inaccessible it is to the main character now. You don't say the word or it makes it real. That I believe is the very bed rock of the story. I think it's also nice because it specifically distances this story from being "reality". Owen is not actually old, because his old manager is the same age. The skin Owen cuts doesn't bleed, which I appreciated a lot. I think it distances that end part as gore, and once you see the static it's clearly not at all real. So in this reality Owen exists in not only does the internalized shame make transness an unmentionable idea, but it also highlights that transness is aggressively marginalized and erased. The only place it can exist is in an artsy punk bar as an abstraction. Personally speaking, I am surprised I did not cry during this movie as so much of it feels just a pretty dead on capture of my life. I had a family member pass away when I was quite young, and my dad had quite a severe brush with death. It deeply effected me. It made me afraid to come out just because everyone was already so fragile. But I would watch Sailor Moon or The Bird Cage, and dear god would it feel like everything to me. I am honestly so happy that this movie exists. The movie that definitely chipped a crack in my egg shell was Hedwig and the Angry Inch. I still think it has a lot of merit today, but it is also hard to watch nowadays. Like its message overall feels no where near as supportive and encouraging. This movie literally has "There Is Still Time" chalk marked on the street on screen for like so long it's impossible to miss.

[@Progressunlikely]

You articulate it so well! The unspoken unexamined cannot be named. But then never examining it shoves you into this totally disconnected surreal reality. I think that's why the ending had to be so horrific. To convince people that their perceived and clung to "safety" is in fact a living death.

[@BustedHeart]

@@Progressunlikely💚💜💙🐙

[@davidgipe997]

I know this isn't exactly trans, however i enjoyed how homosexuality was done in the reimagined Kung Fu. He was gay, but he was also a doctor. He had relationship issues, had opinions outside of his orientation and job such as concetn or support for siblings and his chinese community. It was a part of the character along with everything else that comprised him

[@Lumina_Red_Panda]

11:40 resonated hard with me. I'm an academic, and getting into research as a trans person has come with a lot of assumptions that I will want to research trans issues in my field, or, perhaps more accurately ought to research trans issues in my field. I remember a few years back when I was discussing a PhD proposal with my then personal tutor, and in general academic guide, being shocked and disgusted that her genuine advice to me for getting into research was to not research the topic I cared about, but instead focus on my experiences as a trans person, and use that to inform my research. I remember asking her if she would be just as insulted if she were told to stop researching service people and militaries and instead focus on women's issues and female gendered issues instead. It was a learning moment for both of us, I saw how I would be pigeonholed (and have been since as people do assume my research must be about trans people), and for her in recognising that I am not just trans, there is more to me than just being a gateway to trans issues and trans concerns. It is a real tragedy that trans people seem barred from engaging in any production unless it is explicitly trans, being told that here is the trans box, it's perfect for you, because you're a trans, just like them!

[@PhlanMichellePurss]

As an Elder Transgender Lady, I think it's a Boring as hell. This might be a movie for this Generation and more power to you young kids. It's No Priscilla Queen of The Desert (Australian), Boys Don't Cry..

[@hannahcat1994]

As someone adjacent to a lot of anime fandoms as well these conversations are so fascinating. They don't have the obvious intentionality of a queer narrative as I saw the tv glow, but I think that appreciation for queer coding has been lost on some people. Like i love canon queerness as much as the next person, but sometimes there is a beauty (and often tragedy) in not having the words. (Or you know just queerplatonic relationships everywhere :P )

[@AnxiousGary]

I'm not much of a film person in general but I avoided spoilers for this and watched it. It just seemed so stylish that I didn't want to miss out on the experience. I thought it was beautifully put together, but could really feel that I wasn't part of the target audience. I don't know how to describe that feeling where you're watching something that you know is going to make a huge impression on a lot of people, just not you. It was a fun (?) experience though, especially if you like melancholy and surreal stuff.

[@meander112]

Intersectionality for the intersectionality god!

[@Progressunlikely]

Damn, I really could not have predicted my long time artistic fascination with liminality to be directly tied to queerness. But just like being trans... It was there the whole time.

[@austinexists]

the midnight shirt spotted (amazing band)

[@A-Saxy-Bard]

I very much dont like it but At least I Saw The TV Glow isnt as bad as the opera As One, which has a whole song about discovering the term trans without ever saying the word. Its so disappointing because its not explicit about literally everything else. Which kind of undermines its whole point. Its what you get when you have a cis person try to write about the trans experience. It also lists the names of dead trans folk over a scene of fictionalized assualt which felt so exploitative.

[@noamthenerd]

I mean, we got gay Agatha Harness last week from Marvel, but... they're PROBABLY just besties who nearly kissed

[@seth7407]

I personally feel that movies are more powerful when they don't hit you over the head with the artist's intention and message

[@rubberlover666]

I personally felt it failed at being an engaging horror movie first and foremost. While I liked the 90's nostalgia hits, most of the movie put me to sleep (as does a lot of A24 horror). While I see the utility in trans allegories, I Saw...to me (a cis het white dude, btw) felt like it could be allegorical to a LOT of experiences from transness to just figuring yourself out as you get older. I later had to read that it was supposed to be expressly coded as trans which is fine and if trans people immediately picked up on that and got something out of this movie, awesome, but I'm one of those people who thought they could have made their statement a little stronger, thinking that a small budget A24 movie would be the SAFEST place to do that but I definitely could be wrong. Thanks for your perspective, Jessie.

[@Alyx-xo1wg]

as a trans person i definitely saw the transness of it all, and related to some aspects of that, but honestly related even more in non-trans ways, to the avoidance of the truths about yourself that scare you, and how that avoidance is what slowly kills you in such an excruciating way

[@Charlotte-hv6ll]

Leaving a comment for the algorithm. Great video

[@jsmith9977]

It's incredibly obvious now, but I had no idea until I watched @amandatheJedi's breakdown. It still really held up, but it makes so much more sense with that context

[@HotDogTimeMachine385]

Several of my friends were disappointed by the movie. They expected a movie about a trans character, not a movie about dysphoria. Interesting.

[@paulsillanpaa8268]

I think that the statement “I didn’t see it as a Trans allegory” can also speak to the fact that human stories should speak to everyone on some level, even if they don’t share the specific experience/background. For example, I’m not Trans, but I do have some experience at failing to perform gender in the eyes of my peers. I had a late puberty, and so for years I was very childlike & effeminate looking, which made gym class a nightmare. Trans stories aren’t meant for me, but they do speak to me.

[@kmaginn]

6:18 oh goddess same. I think this is the part of being trans that a lot of cis people simply don't get. The ever-present horror of believing you're trapped in the wrong gender.

[@TK-_-GZ]

Algorithmic Punch!

[@literallyap0tat0-q7q]

I think the strength of a movie like TV Glow is its ability to immerse you in the *feeling* of an experience. There's truth to be found in the feelings provoked by a film, and repressing a trans identity is such a nebulous internal experience that to concretely say the protagonist was trans would undermine that truth imo. The film felt very authentic to me, and I loved it for that.

[@l.p.5703]

Love to watch any and all discussions of this movie. It’s haunted me since I watched it

[@TwinRiver100]

7:51 (tom holland classmate trans) i think i know the person you're talking about i think i saw someone from The Direct report on that in like 2021 i think that person was super in the background and was kind of a blink and you miss it sort of thing i haven't re-watched, but i think they were a kind of a background character with no lines...at least i think they were. i haven't re-watched that movie in years.

[@mathewblaine1109]

Im glad there are movies like this. Anything that makes coming out to be your true self easier . Im a generation thats a little older but i dont think ill ever really come out . But im happy the tools and words are there for the next generation it helps that there is more then just jokes .

[@ThomasWillett1]

Of everything that has come out in 2024, I Saw the TV Glow has been my favorite movie of the year. It feels so personal and rich with detail and emotion that resonates on a deep level. My read of people needing certain words spelled out is reflective of a contemporary view of sexuality. I was born in 1989 and while there was some awareness of a larger culture, it can't be said that it was accepted or fully understood. There were mixed messages from media that only confused self-discovery and in some ways created guilt and personal rejection. More than anything, I don't know that the language was fully there. Given that Schoenbrun is depicting a period that begins in the 90s, it would make sense that people who were trans felt disconnected without understanding why. Living in that ambiguity can lead to an aimlessness that causes prolonged journeys of frustration and ostracization from what society expects. You don't know why, but you feel certain ways when you resonate with something. It often takes years for the obsession to fully be understood as some deeper processing. Sometimes life won't give you that answer until much later. I was more caught up in the debate as to whether the ending was happy/sad and came down on happy because Justice Smith had the chance to live an authentic life afterwards. Even if it's just for a day, it is something to encourage. As someone who didn't fully come to terms with things until my 30s, I resonate with counter-narratives that prove that sexuality can be understood later in life (it's a small reason I like Will & Harper). Even then, you're left in the meantime wondering "What is wrong with me?" and not having the language. You can see ideas around you, but they don't have clear meaning. Even if the word transgender hypothetically exists in your vocabulary, do you use it in first or second person language? To me, Schoenbrun's greatest gift is reflecting that uncertainty by highlighting not the language but the experience. We don't ask cis/straight/etc. characters to have a revelatory "I'm cis!" scene. It's just implied. With that said, I think this is a film that understands the coding of media to both be and not be transgender. It's how media was when I was younger where you interpreted things and made your own understanding of the universe. It's there in the color pallet and even what characters fixate on. I don't think it helps that Smith's father is abusive and talks negatively about girly shows. There is built in shame, so I think there is a denial or desire to not be excluded because life is already so lonely and alien. To me, it follows a rule of storytelling that is contradictory to the argument: show don't tell. Schoenbrun shows us what it feels like to wander around looking for that connection with only coded iconography to pull from. It's not fully what it is but it can stand in for so much if that makes sense. I don't know. I really love this film and it resonates with me so much. I am grateful to have been on the side of social media more celebrating it because they are a nice group of people. If nothing else, it has unified a culture with its own coded sensibilities and I appreciate that. It's okay if you disagree, but I struggle to see the lack of terminology as an issue. Maybe to younger viewers with access to the internet it is a baffling concept, but to people in my age group it feels real and I'm grateful something like this exists.

[@mattp994]

If you have to spell it out, it stops being a "metaphor". Also, by not being upfront about it, you're more likely to reach a larger audience. People can watch and fall in love with thevstory, process it, and then understand the trans journey (or A trans journey), while those people may not have initially have been receptive to "a trans movie".

[@Vincent1808]

I feel like some people want every movie to end like Psycho and have someone explain everything that happened for 10 minutes

[@SSVCloud]

I mean, I figured the allegory on growing up trans and queer at a time where we didn't have the language to properly articulate these things and how frustrating and isolating and miserable that can be was pretty obvious.

[@sapphic.flower]

Needing the word directly stated when the story is clear as day honestly feels like a North American thing. Like mainstream Hollywood consumers are so used to being told the message of a film directly rather than trusting their own interpretation and instincts about a story. It’s actually preferable to have queer films not depend on labels because imo, labels can be too strict and not always represent the fluidity of queerness and gender.

[@siaa9992]

I thought that nerd phaser was a pc mouse. that would have been so cool!

[@jennybean416]

Keep surviving and thriving! 🫶

[@MoramothHauntz]

I was going to pass on the movie. You got my curiosity now, and I'll go grab a hard copy

[@andrewenderfrost8161]

I don’t understand why anyone would expect a horror film to spell it out for you and be opaque about the dread. When has a metaphor in art ever explained itself? And especially in a horror where fear of the unknown increases the atmosphere?

[@DJDocsVideos]

We fell asleep watching it, twice.

[@timk6181]

Allegory is the answer here, you don't say what something is an allegory for within the allegory itself - that's how it works.

[@DrJamieTalks]

A very thoughtful review. I enjoyed it. 🏳️‍⚧️🙂

[@RedAngelSophia]

Speaking of character who aren’t literally trans but are clearly meant to be metaphorically trans - what do you think about Delenn from BABYLON 5?

[@cmmosher8035]

I sorta figured that the reason why they didn't explicitly say transgebder is because Owen wasn't unable to admit to themselves that they were trans. That being said when you talked about executives pushing back against the word i did go look up the production comspnies. Turns out one of them is Access Entertainment whose parent compant has given a lot of money to conservative PACs and to people like Lindsay Graham. So who knows.

[@anvalisok]

I really need to watch this.

[@MenaNizam]

Hey’ when I’m in NY again would love to visit you