Why I Stopped Hating the Shockwave (And Other Stockless Shotguns)

A few years ago, we published the now-infamous "The Mossberg Shockwave is Mostly Useless" video. But thanks to some new techniques and accessories, I've since done a 180 on the birdshead grip-style "firearms." Today, we're talking about why I've come to embrace mini-shotguns like the Shockwave and the Remington Tac-13 and Tac-14.
Watch Rhett's Channel: / @demonstratedconceptsl...

[@marloc2019]

"we are accountable for each one of those pellets and filling the air with led and hoping for the best is not an acceptable home defense strategy". This is the reason why I tend to consider this channel one of the most intelligent and formative on KZbin.

[@Geddy135]

_this is why I gravitate towards pcc's as oppose to shotguns for home defense_

[@yellowboxster06]

This point also tends to get lost on folks who argue that high capacity anything is the truth and the light.

[@whereswaldo5740]

@@yellowboxster06 That’s why God invented the mini shell.

[@whereswaldo5740]

There’s an old saying. In the house a shotgun is a rifle. And knowledgeable gun people know what that means. At ten feet we’re looking at a spread of 3”. 6” at 20 feet. Don’t know how big your house is but that’s the limit for most. Outside on the lawn well that’s different on many levels. There’s actually a shotgun laser that projects the very approximate size at the proper distance of the spread. Very cool. And as a good scatter gunner knows there are always strays. I know of people being struck with small shot laterally standing at distance but equal to the end of the barrel. That all being said I I own like 5 Shockwaves and the Short Shorty 10” AOW. Can’t get enough of a great gun.

[@adabsurdum5905]

@@whereswaldo5740 I never heard that phrase, but it's very true. I had a full sized modified choke Mossberg that would make one big hole in a target at 10 yards.

[@jonathank7394]

I like the wood "stocks" on the nightstick. It looks very old school cool.

[@KennethSchmitt]

Own one. Incredibly hard to find took me 2 years.

[@deezy_0016]

Its called wood furniture btw

[@floyd9727]

@@KennethSchmitt dude I looked around all the academys, bass pro shops, cabellas, NOTHIN! I pop into my local gun shop 1000 feet from my apt, and I found one. Shop probably had a 100 guns at the time (maybe less), and the had exactly what I was looking for (retrograde shockwave 12 gauge). They got it one or two days before…

[@KennethSchmitt]

@@floyd9727 I gave in and bought it online at grabagun. I signed up for in stock alerts and waited about 5-6 weeks. I’m happy you found one local.

[@asurasyn]

"This is my _BOOMSTICK!_ "

[@1101agaoj]

Your objectivity and honest experience is what keeps your subscribers and viewers coming back. Thanks for sharing your time behind the trigger with these short and uglies!

[@LuckyGunner]

Thanks!

[@DARTHDANSAN]

Yes I concur

[@soonerfrac4611]

The Tac-13 with a brace, and get rid of the vent rib would be the best thing out there IMO. The fact that Mossberg hasn’t developed a birds head/braced firearm based on their semiauto platform already is moronic to the point of fiscal irresponsibility. But, seeing as they can no longer make a base model pump gun that won’t break, maybe it’s best they don’t. Personally, I’ve never been a fan of the Mossberg style guns, the pump has always felt cheap and janky, the load gates felt awkward, and the action just didn’t feel as smooth as even a crappy era 870 Express. My preference in a pump will probably always be a toss up between the Winchester and the 870. I have a 120 Ranger in 20ga that’s been a go to gun for a very long time now, approaching 30 years, literally the first firearm I ever purchased at the age of 10.

[@TightwadTodd]

@@DARTHDANSAN and i third that.

[@n8shac1978]

Agreed in general, but this review is a horrid 50/50 wash. There is so much back and forth b/n “I like / I don’t like” that after the third cycle I HAVE NO IDEA what to think about this thing anymore. I get stronger direction when asking my gf what she wants from Starbucks, and there is some wisdom in that…

[@runlevelone]

Your willingness to adjust your opinion after being presented with new information is one of the reasons I have a lot of respect for you Chris even if I don't always agree with your conclusions. Cheers!

[@warrenharrison9490]

I wish more people were like you. 👍

[@waynefelton6413]

Thank you for investing into the research of these guns and then sharing this video with us. Enjoy all your videos

[@LuckyGunner]

Thanks!

[@ringofasho7721]

@@LuckyGunner I've got 2. One in 410, one in 20ga. I've never shot with a lanyard on the birdhead. I use a similar technique though by turning the gun at 11 o'clock instead of 12, and putting the back of my wrist on my jawline. It works awesome with the 410, but not sure I'd want to do it with a 12

[@bobwampler3387]

The Shockwave in 20ga is the sweet spot. More controllable and still very effective. If Mossberg ever comes out with a 930 version like the Remington Tac series, I’m all over it.

[@tylerrobbins8311]

If you load mini shells for the 12 guage it's going to have less recoil while still having the same effectiveness. You also get a bonus of more shells in the tube. Just something to consider, as I figured such a small firearm would be more suited for them.

[@bobwampler3387]

@@tylerrobbins8311 You are correct but finding mini shells is very difficult.

[@tylerrobbins8311]

@@bobwampler3387 Fair point.

[@robertfrapples2472]

@@bobwampler3387 I make my own. They hit harder than any Aguila rounds I've tried.

[@robertfrapples2472]

If you can take the recoil, the 12ga is a no-brainer, but women, children and the elderly can all benefit from the 20ga version. I load a .575 cal ball round in 20ga that gets over 1600fps. Also have a 20 pellet #4 Buck round that goes over 1400fps.

[@marcodellacqua15]

So rare finding someone on the web able to say "I've changed my opinion on the subject". Yours is one of the best channels, with concise and informative videos of professional quality, and you always separate fact from your opinion on the fact while keeping it all fun and interesting. Keep on the good work.

[@ReptilianLepton]

The 'Nightstick' model does look rather handsome...

[@aneffortlesssmile]

Very handsome. I’d let it take me out to dinner and pay for it.

[@GreyRock100]

Butt stuff confirmed

[@erikhansen7766]

I almost want to pay the stamp and put a nice wood stock on it

[@PerceptionVsReality333]

I want one now.

[@hornyducks4090]

Save your money really

[@j.m.8193]

Just from the title, I already know Demonstrated Concepts is going to be involved.

[@ColonizerChan]

i love how people took this firearm as a challenge to make it work and it is really coming together now

[@bb5242]

Anything with a stock is going to be better, though. In stressful situations these little non-shotguns are a bad idea.

[@taasch2505]

​@@bb5242one shot will drop your target. It won't be a prolonged event like with handguns (based on statistics). A slug will still kill even if it's hitting body armor

[@TilveranWrites]

Thanks for recommending Demonstrated Concepts' channel. Totally changed my perception on how well these weapons can work with the added recoil strap, side torch, a sight, and the birdshead grip cheek-weld technique. Semi-automatic over pump, too.

[@izdabombz1592]

1. You dont make enough videos. You're always such a pleasure to watch. 2. You don't show enough of your humor, it reminds me of Paul Harrel. Its almost enduring.

[@robertfrapples2472]

Paul Harrel's unintentional humor is his best. He's hilarious when he's mad about viewer comments.

[@717UT]

Couldn't agree more OP

[@CMDR.Gonzo.von.Richthofen]

Thanks for all that you do, Chris! It always makes my day when you release a new LG video! Your succinct, no nonsense info, and your willingness to reevaluate your opinion over time make this my favorite firearms channel on KZbin. Not to mention your willingness to evaluate and cover some great firearms that don't fall into everyone else's 'standard doctrine' for the 21st century. Keep up the good work! 🍀

[@lilrod2943]

Yo Gonzo, talk about butt stuff

[@infernalcapricorn]

Glad you came around.

[@TODDFINK1]

I love watching Rhett. Very innovative and outside the box. All of his vids are very interesting. Makes you think a bit more...

[@residentevil5fan18]

Thomas rhett?

[@jeffhuett101]

The honesty here, and the willingness to embrace new information is admirable. 100 good guy points added.

[@CalzaTheFox]

Love seeing Rhett get some lip service from youtube juggernauts like you and Ian. He's really ahead of his time with his contributions to working tight spaces.

[@JG54206]

Not gonna lie the “nightstick” model with wooden furniture looks pretty handsome.

[@grizsgarage]

I chose the 590 for 2 reasons. Remington sucked when I bought mine. And having been in a life and death fight with my 870 in hand, I found it very difficult to find the safety in my sleep deprived state. Mind you I have been hunting with my 870 for nearly 40 years. I wanted a very short gun for close quarters, the 590 fits the bill and the safety is right on top. I did modify mine with a recoil strap, a green bead and an improved safety button. I find it very comfortable to shoot and can fire from the hip about as well as eye level. I have it, with the hopes I never have to touch it off, in my home or office.

[@mcjim256]

Lucky Gunner ☘️ or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Shockwave 😁 A nice follow-up video, but I still think your first take as pretty spot on.

[@connorperrett9559]

I had to delete my comment because you beat me to the Dr. Strangelove punch.

[@mcjim256]

Great minds think alike 👍

[@the_weed_in_your_garden9319]

I believe his first video was pretty spot on. Jerry Miculeck did a video basically stating they're ok at close range and with laser(not red dot) making hip shots more accurate

[@Unborn-Lives-Matter]

@@the_weed_in_your_garden9319 Exactly. This firearm was never meant for shooting ducks or skeet! It is meant for close quarters only and for that it is hard to beat. There are a lot of projectiles in a 3" 00 buck load, only one in a handgun and fairly low energy to boot. 00 buck is also much less likely to penetrate walls. If you can afford to have a focused use tool then this one (or one like it, for instance, my Remington 870 with a pistol grip and short barrel) is the thing to get. At least with my Remington I can put on a regular barrel, full stock and standard magazine in about 10 minutes and go duck or deer hunting.

[@floydteter4323]

I looked hard at the Shockwave, but took a pass. Some of my thinking was based on your infamous review of a few years back. The other was that I found that the Youth version of the Maverick 88 gave me all the benefits of the shockwave AND all the benefits of having a stock.

[@robertfrapples2472]

I have both. Try to retrieve and wield each from behind the seat of a truck and you'll see the benefits of the Shockwave immediately.

[@warrenharrison9490]

@@robertfrapples2472 This is where my interest were peaked, maneuverability in vehicles and the fact that non large capacity long guns are treated differently in MA as far as where how it's stored. The gray area is that these are technically not long guns but still legal in MA and as long as they meet the capacity definition of non large capacity can literally be tossed in the back seat.

[@sb-di3of]

@@robertfrapples2472 fr if i cant use it during my road raging, what's the point

[@Unborn-Lives-Matter]

@Floyd Teter What are the benefits of having a stock in a close quarters defense scenario? It's not like a rifle, you don't have to align sights, they call them scatter guns for a reason. This is meant as a close quarters defensive tool. In the home you shoot them from the hip, NOT from eye level! It takes a bit of practice but, yes, you can learn quickly how to point shoot them. I know, I have a pistol gripped Remington 870 with an 18" barrel. It is MUCH more maneuverable and even easier to use than a handgun for getting projectiles on target. Yes, I have had to use it for personal defense. Luckily I never tripped the sear, just the sight of the big hole in the end was convincing!

[@sb-di3of]

@@Unborn-Lives-Matter it looks cool

[@PavyMac]

This video is exactly why you are one of the best host / content creators online discussing firearms and ammo. Thanks for the video.

[@PewLand]

I've found that the Remington V3 tac 13 with an rmr can easily be shot from the side of the face with full power loads to great effect. It's almost like having a stock without the extra length. A red dot is paramount for the weapon system to work effectively as an aimed shotgun.

[@herbderbler1585]

That's exactly why I got the Tac-13 over the Tac-14 or the Shockwave. The automatic action soaks up a fair amount of the recoil, plus the versaport system works very well. It's very unpicky about ammo for an automatic shotgun. That being said, I now want a 590S, any length will do. The S models feed shortie shells right from the factory. No adapter required, you can mix and match 1¾, 2¾ and 3" as you please.

[@soonerfrac4611]

Interesting, I thought the S was optimized for the leprechaun size shells primarily. This changes some things for me as I would much prefer the Tac-13, & really dislike Mossberg in general. But either, braced preferably, sounds great!

[@herbderbler1585]

@@soonerfrac4611 Tac-13 can't run the shortie shells, but mine eats everything else without issue. It's among the most reliable guns I have. The only time it gets picky is if I try to feed it something specifically labeled low recoil, but I won't fault it for that. Any automatic shotgun is going to have a bottom limit to what it can cycle. Bottom line, if you go with a Tac-13 you won't regret it, assuming new Remington follows the formula of old Remington on this one. Despite all the problems they had, everything they made in their final years wasn't bad.

[@shainshartershwate7421]

@@soonerfrac4611 you dislike Mossberg but love Remington, who has destroyed their own reputation and many brands they've monopolize. At least Mossbergs don't come factory new with rust

[@imugi-16]

The one thing I have massive respect for you is the fact you literally go out to the range and try some of the things said by people, either from the commenters or other people of the community. I've seen many gun youtubers would have an opinion on something, but very rarely someone who have self produced data on them.

[@thinman8621]

Much appreciate your insights into making these kinds of shotguns a little bit usable. Practically speaking, looks like the old police riot gun like every police cruiser had for decades is still an easy, reliable path to learn shotgun self-defense.

[@24kRobot]

So many excellent points and fascinating info. I’m glad I stumbled upon the Lucky Gunner KZbin. I’ve purchased ammo from you all for years and years and never knew about the KZbins!

[@bookerdewitt4811]

Dang I'm early. Say what you will about stockless shotguns though, they're cool af. When you reach the pearly gates, you'll have extra points for looking snaggy.

[@TilveranWrites]

After watching a ton of Rhett, the sweetest shotgun looks to be the semi-automatic Beretta 1301T with birdshead grip, recoil strap, a TLR7/8 at 9 o'clock to anchor your fore grip, and a prism optic. ~7 rounds in the tube. Smooth as silk. Absolute insanity.

[@howardsutton118]

The Steam light Tl racker is a great addition to these.

[@williamthompson9262]

Lucky gunner videos are such a treat I always stop what I am doing to watch.

[@sdranch2800]

From what I hear, the shockwave is awesome with a brace that you can sometimes..wink wink… shoulder…. I don’t know though just something I’ve heard. On a side note, I run mossberg 590 shockwave with the opsol mini shell adaptor (works perfectly by the way) with the short shell 3/4 oz slugs and or their buckshot. It works great, about the same recoil as low recoil buckshot in a 2” variety which I also use. Would love to see ballistic gel test with the mini shell slugs / buckshot. Thanks for the great content.

[@radjamss6390]

Yeah…those ergo grips with an SBA4 are definitely awesome but I would never know from experience.

[@jameseaton8679]

Im a security guard and use a 20ga shockwave as my truck gun during patrols. It’s quick and easy to maneuver inside a vehicle.

[@effeojnedib7208]

Thanks for your video. When considering pump vs semi-auto, which after decades of being a pump shotgun guy, the semi-auto allows the user to have a free hand to open doors etc... , also if an injury occurs, it can be effective with one hand. So I'm looking at semi-auto's now. Still have and love my pumps and single shots, but am finding the semi-auto more attractive recently.

[@bfgivmfith]

I never hated on you, not a hater, but glad you came around. I got mine as a gift. :) It brought me to tears! :) Long story.

[@ObservingLibertarian]

I always considered the shockwave, and it's type, to be a good backpack/go bag option. *1)* More people will be able to shoot that effectively than they will be able to shoot a high caliber magnum and *2)* having that a backpack gun provides more options than said magnums in that it can load such a large variety of rounds depending on need. *3)* As part of a backpack/go bag - you have quite a capable level of firepower at your disposal, especially in urban environs, which you can use _while on your way_ to your home or secondary location where better armament may be available.

[@bpie8390]

Best info on stockless shotguns I have viewed so far, and the good news about REMINGTON is a big + !!!! Good research and demonstration, THANK YOU

[@oscarbear7498]

i bought this almost as soon as it came out, even though several videos disliked it, like this one did 4 years ago. i knew its different and people hate new things. i love the shockwave, the size reduction and mobility is king. yes a longer shotgun and shouldering it helps alot, but being real, if shooting at a distance use a rife, in close area shotgun. the higher the mobility in tight spaces the better the shotgun. dont need a long barrel is your close range, and just have to hit first. thats the name of the game, since day one. quick draw, move fast. being able to shoot form the truck, side ways, and just carry it more comfortably is worth the trade off. if your shooting long range, yes the shockwave sucks, but your not buying it for that reason

[@crankygunreviews]

The nightstick is my favorite- the wood furniture is the sweetest!

[@edwinchandeck7231]

Since they came out, I always considered this class of firearms an excellent choice for vehicle defense if carjacking is a concern, city truck gun if you will. Like in some places in Latin America the modus operandi is to intercept the victim in a traffic stop, one car in front a one behind. Nothing like the one shot stop capability of buckshot to break contact and run away to safety. Also as Kris mentioned, good option for small and cramped apartments.

[@Kriss_L]

In that scenario, I would rather have a handgun with 15+ round magazines (or AR SBR/pistol).

[@Andrew-on5do]

@@Kriss_L yup. I have a 762x39 ar pistol.

[@edwinchandeck7231]

@@Kriss_L In my country we can not have any of that, but we can hace a shockwave. Even do, I still prefer buckshot to repel the boarders.

[@Modern_Warrior_School]

Something we must constantly ask ourselves is "what did I used to believe that I no longer find true". Whether its because of new technologies or techniques, our education must always be cyclical and evolving. Its great that you were able to give stockless shotguns a second look with a fresh perspective and share it with the rest of us.

[@aksalaman4689]

Glad to see more and more gun video channels showing Rhetts awesome teachings.

[@BUZZKILLJRJR]

Chris I love your show, I made my own cheesey upgrade videos on the first pump I got. useing all the information I soaked up from you and I got a pump. the guy at the gun shop had been raving about. so I finally retired a single shot 12 and got a pump. man I love this thing, I have done a lot to it, because of what I learned from you I love thing gun now! Thanks for you valuable information in a very professional manner. You incite goes a long way in my book along with Paul Harrell and a few more. Thanks for another great video sir! We appreciate you!

[@DWS1435]

I saw your video years ago and I was ok with it. I have a 20 gauge shock wave and a pistol grip Mossberg 500. They both have green optic lasers and enjoy shooting them. The lase make them accurate and keeps it away from your face.

[@shotakuervo]

I agree, the birdhead grip seems more suited for the hip with a must have laser attachment for accuracy.

[@bigeclipse718]

The shockwave with minishells is awesome

[@jovanjohn8294]

Cool review! I’ve pretty well switched over to 20 gauge. I’ve thought about getting one of these as a designated camp gun that can be packed in.

[@gsp8489]

Thats what i've been saying...Way more effective against bears and people than ANY handgun but still pack-able. I think with some ingenuity, you could even rig it so it rides on the side of your pack in some sort of "holster" and is nearly as accessible as a handgun on the waist belt of the pack would be. I'm thinking have it muzzle down in some sort of scabbard slung cross draw under the arm similar to the position that the Kifaru gun bearer carries your rifle in.

[@jovanjohn8294]

@@gsp8489 that’s a great idea.

[@ElMenorLatino]

Mines also has the Crimson Laser Saddle. I absolutely love it!! It's super accurate and fun to shoot from the hip

[@lornenoland8098]

Classic Mossbergs are tanks. I just aced an LE shotgun course using a retired patrol 500 from the 80’s And that push/clench method is the way to go! Even with a stock! Everyone else was had sore shoulders and rattled teeth, while I was just fine.

[@Daddy53751]

Probably the most long term reliable tank ever. (All due respect to the 870 of course)

[@jshepard152]

I love my 500 from 1987.

[@tylersorensen9597]

Love your viewpoint Chris. I’ve been binging your videos for the last few weeks. Keep it coming

[@kentuckyjustice1408]

I recommend the Aguila Mini Shells in the 00 Buck flavor for the "stockless shotguns." Recoil is less, while performance is present. I run the snot out of 'em in my Shockwave. On another note, I like that wood furniture on that shorty. It just looks classy. Those Tac-13's were WAY overpriced when they were released on the market. I rolled the dice and got a Black Aces for the auto version, simply due to price. It's a little more compact, but I'd trust the Shockwave more.

[@swayback7375]

No issues with the mini shells in either of them? Seems like they didn’t like to feed right in my 500, never tried them in an auto

[@pizzagolfer]

@@swayback7375 I have an adaptor for my 590, and they feed well.

[@ianberry5879]

My thoughts exactly. The mini shells still hit hard enough for human aggressors, they run well in the Mossberg guns if you use the adapter block for the shell lifter, and you get more of them in the tube with less recoil than standard loads.

[@johnbrown5787]

opsol for the adapter

[@Daddy53751]

Kentucky, How’s the Black Aces been reliability wise?

[@yoepix]

Got mine with an “arm brace” and red dot. Problem solved. Awesome truck gun.

[@magicdinsmore3107]

I saw Paul Harrell do a review with the Shockwave. Dude was strait out of the movies with his hip shot. After that, as far as I'm concerned, the Shockwave is good enough for an apocalypse and it's up to the user to match their skills.

[@doc_sav]

Paul really knows how to use that thing. I almost wonder if watching him made a lot of people take a second look at these.

[@mutlee299]

Paul Harrell likes then I love it. A toast to Mr. Harrell.

[@pant0sand0hat]

So glad you're boosting Rhett's signal

[@lancecorporalveteran0621]

On the low recoil loads I personally gave up on full loads and went exclusively into low recoil loads

[@treedoor]

I just bought a Maverick 88, and after watching a ton of shotgun videos over the last week I come across this video, and now I want a Shockwave too.

[@ifell3]

Push, clench and hope for the best. Reminds me of using the toilet 😅

[@danieltiel5828]

Props for being open to new and different techniques

[@joemo1033]

Just bought one. Love it. Very handy and great to have around.

[@robertfrapples2472]

And they are some of the most FUN you can have shooting.

[@bismuth8387]

Very excited to learn this technique. This video gave me a much-needed push to pick it up.

[@Matt-ki6tw]

These things sure do fly off the shelves. They can’t keep them in stock anywhere here in Charlotte. Just goes to show you, firearms have a VERY subjective quality to them.

[@warrenharrison9490]

Local gun shop had 4 different types they all sold in a week. Even a stainless Mossberg with bury capsule.

[@kevo875k]

I also live in Charlotte.. just bought a 590S from academy sports 3 weeks ago..it was literally the last 1 in the store

[@Matt-ki6tw]

@@kevo875k nice! Was in Academy last night (Matthews location) and they had a 590 in the case. Don’t believe I’ve seen the s in stock yet there in person. I was dead set on getting one but then changed mind.

[@kevo875k]

@@Matt-ki6tw 🤣🤣 I had called Matthews location first but they were out so I ended up getting the s model from the academy sports in Kannapolis.. check them out

[@Matt-ki6tw]

@@kevo875k yeah, they seem to get a lot more up that way or too many people hitting the Matthew’s store. I’m about 4 miles from that one but back towards downtown. Too lazy to drive up to concord/kannapolis.

[@20Hikecdt23]

Thanks. Real helpful. You always have informative, entertaining, and interesting videos.

[@JoeO.]

Um, they look badass, but unless you’ve got it rigged up under the faro table (a la Wyatt Earp in Tombstone) I still don’t get why you wouldn’t just go with a stock and not have to come up with new and exciting stockless yoga techniques to justify their use…

[@joecentral-o9984]

It's point and shoot. The most 💩I expected was barrel length... Why not want 00 at your finger tips...

[@gsp8489]

I don't see the point as a home defense gun (other than a convenient platform to build a SBS out of) but it'd be great for bear country. Lighter and more compact than a full size shotgun/rifle, shoots it just as well, still way more effective than any handgun. Good against two legged predators in the back country too. Survival gun would be another use. Very capable against humans, good for hunting small and large game, small and pack-able size, and extremely plentiful ammo. Half the houses in the country will have a box of 12 ga on a shelf. Not necessarily the case for 9mm or 5.56

[@cntrshot1]

@@gsp8489 So, you wouldn't use it to protect yourself from a crack head but you'd use it to protect yourself from a charging grizzly? I'm not understanding your point.

[@ReverendMeat51]

@@cntrshot1 I believe his point is that a home defense gun doesn't need to be carried and as such the reduced size and weight are less beneficial in that context compared to hiking around with a smaller gun that's easier to ruck with.

[@joecentral-o9984]

@@gsp8489 I just want to add that some artic people hunt PB with 556 just to be difficult

[@jimjimson6518]

Sometimes for work I have to cut cold hard rubber mats into the floor around drains and things. The knife will often slip through the rubber even if you're careful. The most important thing you can do to counteract this is "clinching" the elbow. If you keep that elbow tucked in it has less room to travel when it slips

[@Josh47147]

I actually prefer the shockwave because it doesn't hurt my shoulder like a full length shotgun or my wrist like a pistol grip. If you really want one these you don't need a bunch of foo-foo on yours making it look all tac-ti-cool. Here's what I recommend: shockwave 590s, or 590 with Opsol insert, minishells for inside home defense, and full length shells on a bandolier for outside home defense. I also recommend talon grips grip tape. If you want a sling, get one with weight and/or one that doesn't move in the swivels because the sling can fly up in front of the barrel. It happened to me twice. Some people prefer a tactical shotgun scabbard to use because it's like a case and sling in one. And lastly, if you can't use a brass bead with a shotgun to hit something, well bless your heart you don't need to even be holding a gun then. The tac-ti-cool stuff is overrated. What ever happened to practice makes perfect?

[@TwitchRadio]

I use it as a brush / homestead shotgun... but I do agree with all your major points and I do have a normal sized shotgun as well

[@EtherFox]

I was kind of sure you'd come around. You, more than many, tend to be very hands on about where you get your opinions. I was surprised you (vehemently) disliked them to begin with. -That guy who was apparently only one of 10 people who cheek-welded old AR15 pistols before they became cool (pre afg's, braces)

[@kentwilliams4152]

The U.S. Marshal’s Service adopted a shotgun that was like the shock wave, but was a Remington 870. The U.S.M.S. WITSEC program adopted these modified 870’s and began training at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center with same. I was assigned to assist on the first U.S.M.S.WITSEC class. They were using a kind of hip level firing position at 15 yards. They instructed to load and fire 5 rounds from that position. When the smoke cleared and the 24 students had grounded their shotguns we checked their targets. Of the 24 students not one hit their targets with ANY buckshot pellets!! When they were shooting we could see the buckshot impacting the back stop about 10 feet over their targets.

[@LuckyGunner]

Hah, that's a great story. That's the part no one tells when they post the old pictures of the marshals with the modified 870s.

[@itsapittie]

I would have called this, "Why the Shockwave is a little less useless than I used to think." I still can't envision any scenario in which some other firearm wouldn't be better.

[@warrenharrison9490]

Deployment of force while inside a vehicle. Literally the only thing that I've seen and very compelling at that. In my home state of MA this would be able to be stored inside the vehicle where an AR or similar would have to be stored in a locked case unloaded and if available in the trunk.

[@borkwoof696]

Any scenario where you might have to work in really tight spaces.

[@nicholaslittlefield4424]

My house is old tiny and cramped. Much better for me than a full length stock and barrel. Always keep my 9mm shield one me at home but if given the choice I wanna 12 gauge. The shockwave is great for room clearing in my house. I have had two break ins (both took off as soon as they realized I was home, thank god.)

[@djzacmaniac]

@@nicholaslittlefield4424 shotguns with stocks are more maneuverable in tighter spaces than shotguns without stocks. If you're not in a car, a shotgun with a stock is kept closer to the body and protrudes less than a shotgun that only has a pistol or birds head grip.

[@nicholaslittlefield4424]

@@djzacmaniac kept closer to the body sure but If I have to raise that barrel that is simply almost impossible on some corners with a full stock where as the shockwave I can at least point it at the dude. Albeit incorrectly but fuck it. I'd rather hurt my self a bit if I had to shoot so long as the barrel is on target.

[@nicholaspetre1]

I took regular Maverick 88 Security fullsize 20" 8 shot shotgun and converted it into a shockwave with 20" barrel. Still short. Like it a lot!

[@Forleaftaback]

I am surprised that in any of these videos you didn't mention at all the fact that you can add a pistol brace to these. That makes a HUGE difference with these. Yea. The birdhead is kind if silly but with a pistol brace it makes for a great firearm.

[@AnAverageBoss]

Pretty sure that’s illegal isn’t it?

[@Forleaftaback]

@@AnAverageBoss No. I don't believe so. These are no classified by the ATF as shot guns, that's how they get away with the bird grip, they refer to them as "other" or something. And the brace is not a stock so just like short ARs, as long as you do a brace and not a stock you are good.

[@timbaker266]

I bought a tac 14 today mankind you sure encouraged me on my purchase thank you and I'll pay attention to your advice on these awkward stock less shotguns !!

[@artwebb6939]

I've been considering one of these Living in a small RV, it's really tight quarters, to the point a proper shotgun would be just too long

[@artwebb6939]

@@FluffyBuzzard2TheMax I understand I'd like to have one because they're simply more effective than a pistol, but I don't think they're for everyone

[@henryc7548]

@@FluffyBuzzard2TheMax Its not an either or situation, the terminal effectiveness advantage is monumentous.

[@shottec3327]

This is a great review. Honest. Real. And not bought. Great insights and I always love when one person humbly references another industry sage and boundary pusher.

[@Gieszkanne]

I think .410 would be the best caliber for a shockwave. Mossberg also offer one 590 in .410. Another low recoil option would be 12ga with minishells. I think they ave less recoil than 20ga. Recoil absorption with the cheek is not a good idea. Every "shockwave" will go into your brain. Also the muzzle and the noise come closer to your ears. Remember that you very likely wont have ear protections on if you have to use it in self defense.

[@davidkermes376]

Totally agree. A 410 loaded with buckshot would be almost an ideal home defense weapon for anyone. As for the cheek weld technique I remember reading that it was a common style for firelocks, but it tended to result in broken cheekbones if the shooter wasn't too careful.

[@benjamminonabudget85]

Good day to you kind sir! Looking mighty dapper I must say!

[@dereks.1930]

Interesting to see this topic being revisited, I've always felt the criticism of your original video was unfounded. Still not convinced the Shockwave is a better choice than a stocked shotgun unless some unique storage concerns are at play, but I am convinced that they have more utility than being a range toy, and will give them a second look.

[@pleasedontwatchthese9593]

I feel like this gun is really useful to a small number of people. and to most a cool looking short shotgun

[@ds6872]

I think they're a legit home defense weapon with an "arm brace"

[@Clipazine]

Wow, you just happened to post this on the day I decided to buy a Mossberg Shockwave! I accidentally bought the 18.5 inch barrel version though so it's just a Mossberg 590 with a birdshead grip lol. Whoops!

[@ExtremeSquared]

One big benefit to the pump action in these is that you have to try a lot harder to shoot your fingers off. I've never had a problem with recoil or hand strength, and the short barreled semis scare me a little bit.

[@bobawful3198]

I put a chainsaw grip on a shockwave, it makes sense to pump from the top if your gonna hip fire , & that was the most I heard about. It’s not a tickle fight you’re going into so hold onto it is my response. I really like it but it is an unnatural way to fire

[@1997LT1Camaro]

Another reason is: you can depend on your hand vs the gun to cycle the next round. Essentially you will be able to shoot more ammo choices because some semi shotguns are finicky.

[@AbbyNormL]

I’ve had a pistol grip Mossberg 500 since the 1980s and while it was a handful, I thought it was a decent home defense firearm. I purchased a Shockwave as soon as I could get my hands on one because I wanted to try the new 1.5” 12-gauge mini shells. In my Shockwave, the mini shells feed 100% reliable and are much more controllable. You do have to purchase an adapter to use them.

[@jakedistlehorst6190]

Chris Baker is legitimately my role model

[@starkparker16]

You can keep Chris Baker. My role model is Manny Mansfield.

[@gunsandcommissions]

It's the beard, right?

[@thecocooreo]

That's enough internet for you today!

[@josedorsaith5261]

Gotta respect your ability to take harsh criticism, without censoring or deleting comments.

[@hisholinesssriak7618]

Being willing to change your mind is a sign of wisdom. Nothing is as it once was. Hopefully Mossberg will regain their past quality.

[@rickypacheco5272]

He didn't change his mind because of wisdom he changed his mind because everyone was calling him gay

[@rico989]

Turned mine into a SBS. Love it.

[@DWalter.27]

Sweet, maybe if Remington actually can make a good gun now then they'll be a legitimate option/competition to Mossberg again

[@deaddocreallydeaddoc5244]

I have my Mosburg Shockwave for very specific scenarios, that you mention near the end. It's a great bug-out choice, too.

[@mcekim2]

Glad you came around, Chris! Seriously, thanks for taking another look and utilizing this interesting technique! Great video!

[@mattbrown5511]

The 20G is a tempting machine to look at. I'm scheduled for a rotator cup surgery on my right shoulder. 12G tend to hurt too much to do any level of practical training. Thank you for all the hard work and an honest evaluation.

[@DevDog67]

Have you tried mini shells?

[@mattbrown5511]

@@DevDog67 Most will not feed well, or at all, through my 870. So, yes I have tried them. My daughter uses them for squirrel hunting now.

[@BatCaveOz]

I still reckon that a stockless shotgun is the answer to a problem that most people don't have. For me, unless you are a Vietnam War era "tunnel rat", but maneuverability is still a concern... just shorten the barrel as much as you can, and maybe shorten the stock a bit. Even if the length of pull isn't ideal, this can be mostly addressed by the myriad of modern optics and optic mounting points available.

[@Rreptillian]

"In today's news, it turns out if you try hard enough you can figure out how to get better at using pretty much any tool, no matter how shitty it's design."

[@Icybones000]

I was kind of thinking same thing till I came across Rhetts videos with his technique.

[@Predalien195]

To me the Shockwave was always a middle finger to SBS/SBR laws. And the main purpose it had was to be a gateway to being made into an SBS as it was essentially already done minus the stock. While there are practical ways to shoot one of these, a shotgun with an 18 inch barrel and a short stock like a youth length of pull is going to be more effective every time. I guess to me, no matter how "good" you can make a Shockwave, it will always be worse than a plain jane shotgun to me. Now, the new 590S models have a little more potential for practicality in 12 gauge as mini shells are no viable without an adapter. And it's a potential low recoil alternative to using even standard low recoil 00 Buck or something.

[@Bob5mith]

A Shockwave full of mini shells is a whole lot of fun. But yeah, I filed the paperwork and it's wearing a short stock now.

[@mrs.vasquezz]

I mean it takes seconds to swap barrels, just have a second cut barrel for any number of models

[@Predalien195]

@@mrs.vasquezz The problem is depending on the base gun it may be legal to do so, it may not. In the case of a Shockwave, a longer barrel is legal, but pointless compared to other options and any other shotgun it won't be legal to go shorter without proper paperwork installed.

[@Predalien195]

@@Bob5mith I think aside from the SBS route the only other option that made sense was bullpups like the KSG or UTS-15 and etc. They accomplish the same task while being perfectly legal and far more comfortable. Even those Bullpup Unlimited stocks for the Mossberg work good.

[@mrs.vasquezz]

@@Predalien195 i don't care

[@PerceptionVsReality333]

I don't know how anyone could hate these little shotguns when they're fun AF.

[@manderson7173]

As a range toy yes… Most of the heated discussions center around their utility as a defensive tool

[@thegooddoctor2009]

That looks like a lot of work to make a gun mostly usable. I'll just stick with a pistol if I need to worry about a compact weapon

[@robertfrapples2472]

So will the other guy. That's why you'll probably get shot too. #00 Buck in a Shockwave will greatly reduce the likelihood of return fire.

[@seansimmons73]

Ok. But a pistol won't knock em down lock a shot gun will

[@GrinderCB]

I appreciate the video. Lots of valuable information in the assessment. I've occasionally thought about getting one of these stockless shotguns, but I'm happy with my Mossberg 500 in the Cruiser configuration.

[@ffdd6102]

The technique is really interesting but when comparing things in the light of actual self defense (not the tactical "self defense" seen very common now a days) where you need as little as possible hindering your perception, concentration all while extremely stressed out. I'd rather use a stock where almost anyone has almost an instinctincual way to use vs using a technique that looks extremely aquard to use and requires lots of trainig to use (probably far more training than any normal individual would do). Also in home defense you shouldn't be clearing your house, professionals who do it for a living don't ever want to do it alone so why would you. So the length of your shotgun isn't as important. Also folding stock shotgun have been around for decades so space storage requirements should really be an issue plus you still get a stock

[@ffdd6102]

@Anne Frank by handle you mean go around tight corners then I would agree with you (and if that's the case you should already know my stance on that) but if your just talking about shooting in general. In every way that doesn't make sense, they must really be novice or flusted to be on video to think holding and firing a gun just against your face is easier than using an actual stock especially when co considering actually aiming . Why don't you tell that to all the people who use pistol brace because we all know they aren't just using them like it was intended

[@ffdd6102]

@Anne Frank ya I get it your face is a point of reference like in archery you use it as an achor point for you to be able to use any optics. But logic and experience wise holding a gun and firing it is way harder than just having a stock the third point of contact isn't just used for and anchor point plus your whole shoulder is bracing the impact of the recoil over a large area vs having it all go through your hand only. Not to mention like I stated using a stock is almost instinctincual to everyone and gun length isn't an issue in reality not tactical fantasy of clearing your own house

[@ffdd6102]

@Anne Frank anything viable, sh.t i could find a way to do home defense with my black power guns if i wanted too, whether or not if it's practical for actual real life "home defensive" not cqb and other irrelevant tactical topics that looks cool and feels cool to play around doing but completely irrelevant in real life is what matters. And capacity isn't really that much of a problem when you actually look at the real data of self defense use.

[@Puddin127]

New Remingtons from the 870s and 700s I’ve seen locally look really good. Def better than the ones I’ve seen over the last 5 or so years. As good as my older Remington for sure.

[@tophergauruder3647]

I like the idea of the shockwave it’s basically a from factory breaching shotgun

[@dontfallyoumighthurtyourse4694]

Yeah but civilians aren’t on a breaching team so there’s nobody to make entry behind you after you blow the lock.

[@WALTERBROADDUS]

Uh....for breaching what? You breaking into a Drug stash house? A bounty hunter?

[@WALTERBROADDUS]

@@dontfallyoumighthurtyourse4694 Yeah, are these guys Dog the Bounty Hunter or something? Who goes door breaching? 🤔

[@shoelessbandit1581]

@@WALTERBROADDUS it's a landchad thing, you wouldn't understand rentcel

[@WALTERBROADDUS]

@@shoelessbandit1581 could you try that again in English?

[@RideAlongside]

was really hoping for a short stocking SBS vs birdhead grip "firearm" technique section of this video. Chris - please tell me you've done this video already comparing the two techniques for home defense. If not, can we get that video early in 2025?

[@macgregordespitethem7933]

Range ceiling penetrators.

[@deriknorris3646]

There are some companies that make brace adapters, and that greatly improves the ergonomics and recoil impulse.

[@genericgamer8507]

I've always seen these as sort of a breachers tool to be added to a backpack loaded with breaching rounds with a handful of buckshot in a shell carrier just in case. But outside of that I don't think I'd take it over a regular shotgun

[@Indykid88]

Rhett Neumayer is the man