WHY I THINK SHIMANO FAILED 105 12 SPEED MECHANICAL

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[@GCPerformance18]

I really do think the biggest miss with this group is not making with a rim brake option, this seems to be such a nice incentive for those who are looking to upgrade there bikes to 12 speed who have rim brakes because there were no options at the moment expect for the new apex. I dont see customers who have mechanical making the jump from there previous 11 speed mechanical duraace ultegra or 105 for this group. and once someone buys this group they are stuck at this group and this price point.

[@jdmcdorce876]

I don't think Shimano is targeting the upgrade aftermarket with this - I'm jaded enough to envision this being geared more toward OEM equipment for bike manufacturers, which will allow the manufacturers to add an additional $500 to the MSRP of 105 mechanical equipped models. Not seeing rim brakes on many new road bikes.

[@slowcyclist4324]

I don’t see a point for rim when that target market no longer even exists. A couple of dinosaurs making rim brake videos and youtube comments, a market does not make.

[@piltrid1]

Why not do do a hydraulic rim caliper that can be paired with any hydraulic brake shifter?

[@jaredfontaine2002]

They need a rim version. I have so much crap to charge. These hydro disc are much $$$$.

[@galenkehler]

You have to remember that the people asking for mechanical groupsets are like 30 guys in the internet forums. They're vocal but they're still only 30 guys so you can't develop a whole groupset and then sell 20 units a year.

[@dasf89]

A few points: 1) USD 1100 (105) vs 1700 (105Di2) is not "close in value" - it's 55% more 2) You can't honestly believe that Shimano, the world's largest component supplier, has not done the math on whether it makes financial sense to offer this group set for the mass market - they clearly want to cover just every piece of the market 3) there is so much overlap with all the other 12-speed components (road, GRX, MTB), many of which are also mechanical; it's not a standalone thing that requires massive engineering and manufacturing effort

[@the.communist]

Im dissapointed theres no rim brake option

[@number6photo]

Point 1), above: exactly. From Shimano's and the bike manufacturer's perspective, a $600 difference is enormous and will likely affect the consumer's bike-buying decisions. For the other comments about people wanting to upgrade from 11s and/or the rim-brake incompatibility; I doubt that Shimano cares much about the aftermarket and the relatively-small number of consumers that spend money and time upgrading their existing bikes. From a business and product development perspective, these decisions are primarily made for new bike production.

[@GCPerformance18]

Okay right here. An aluminum bike right now in todays market brand new from any brand name company with SHIMANO tiagra and hydraulic disc brakes is roughly $1800 usd with very cheap aluminum wheels and a very inexpensive frame. When you slap this on the same frame. There going to have to make it more money to make a difference between tiagra bike so it would be 2300-2400 it doesn’t make sense. Unless in the coming year they seriously reduce prices for everything. I don’t see it making sense.

[@waysidetimes9226]

@@GCPerformance18 I'm with you on this. $2400 for a bike with an alloy frame is fine, but IDC about the groupset. 10 speed tiagra is fine. I'd want that $700 put into the wheels! The only thing those two extra gears at the back are doing is giving me a little more range for climbing, and frankly an 11-28 with a 52/34 is just fine. But wheels that are 500 grams lighter? Yeah that's worth every penny

[@davidnicholson6680]

As GC says, just get Tiagra. It's far less expensive than this 12sp 105 stuff and works great.

[@curtvaughan2836]

I don't want batteries running by bicycles - well, except the Garmin. I'm glad Shimano is offering a high end mechanical groupset.

[@8rk]

Bro you can't say "get on with the times" to people who can't spare $1000 more on a friggin groupset.

[@GCPerformance18]

this is a new product, so i am not telling everyone to get on with the times, this was more for the price and the launch of this, get on with the times as in make a cheaper 105 di2, because this product was launched intended for people who have the lower speed mechanical groups an outlet to let them upgrade into the more modern groups...

[@harryhuang7]

Someone w $3000 for a bike can stretch to $4000 it’s only those that are entry level I would argue are on the fence

[@8rk]

@@harryhuang7That's a WILD assumption. 33% more?? 1000 dollars more? This mentality gets you to $15-16k bikes where only 5-8 years ago top end was at $9k

[@harkat16]

I agree with GC. If you have an absolute max of 3k to spend, just get Tiagra 10sp and save your money for anything else

[@8rk]

@@harkat16 Yeah but even he clarified and said 105di2 should be cheaper. I don't understand why us consumers, who spend all this money don't demand cheaper prices and instead try to find justifications for companies to keep selling higher prices. I get it, you can afford the extra 4k. But don't you want 105di2 bikes to be 1k cheaper as they should be like years ago? The ONLY reason they're not is because people are paying for it. Like GC said, making electronic groups nowadays is dirt cheap. The thing isn't complicated at all. Press a button, move derailleur x mm's that way. That's really it.

[@KurtisPape]

The beauty about cycling is the mechanical nature of a bike with no reliance of batteries, electronics or fuel. I mostly use my trail bike over my e-bike, although I can have more fun on the e-bike, I get a sense of achievement finishing the climb on the trail bike and that is more important to me, that is why I don't like electronic shifting, it's a mental thing, not shifting speed or reliability. I agree with your points though, this 105 groupset is on its own in a weird position.

[@romanpramuka2703]

Shimano's latest mechanical shifting is so good, that it doesn't need to be electronic at all.

[@ketle369]

Exactly. The only benefit of electronic shifting is the precisenesses of it. If the difference in shifting reliably is almost none there’s no reason to change to electrical shifting.

[@gaborozorai3714]

Yes you CAN upgrade. Get an Ultegra or DA crankset, cassette and chain. That's where most of the weight difference is. Shifting performance will also improve slightly but that has always been pretty similar across the range. Agree that no rim brake is a big miss. And $1100 is way too much.

[@ketle369]

It will probably be on sale for 800 and then it’s a no brainer if you want to upgrade.

[@davekashuba4730]

I have both Di2 and mechanical 11-spd. My Di2 has been flawless, aside from me running out of battery once. Yes, it's a better system than mechanical, but every time I ride my mechanical bike, I just feel more connected to it, and therefore prefer it, just like I prefer manual transmissions in cars vs automatics/DCTs. Di2 is great - I can't dispute that it's faster, more reliable, etc., but when I shift several gears at once by just holding down a button and hear the motor back there doing all of the work, it's just awkward to me. Your point about fully integrated cable routing is spot on though - if my next bike doesn't have it, I'll go mechanical; otherwise, I'll have to go electronic.

[@Cortes19882012]

Im still riding Ultegra R8000. Pricing is insane out there.

[@byrondixon4648]

Totally agree with everything you said. I am keen to build a custom rim brake bike. Di2 12 Speed Ultegra is $2300 AUD. Converting the $1400 USD to AUD is almost $2200. Rim brakes = less hassle, easy maintenance, easier travel and no rubbing.

[@onehourmusicbc]

and cheaper and lighter.

[@giodc8599]

@@onehourmusicbc Lighter so you can go on and win the TdF tomorrow, right?

[@onehourmusicbc]

@@giodc8599 so you won't feel like dragging the bike uphill. :) Not like I want to spend 2000 dollar more just for a damn disc brake with those big ass shifter if it isn't di2 :)

[@byrondixon4648]

@@giodc8599 a light bike feels fantastic. If I'm feeling good and the bike feels great, I might beat my mates to the coffee shop, but I'll never win the tour 😁

[@chrispalmer3096]

I've got a new set of 11s Ultegra di.2 rim brakes groupset that I'm saving to build a bike. Just trying to decide if I'm going to get a new frame, or strip the mechanical groupset off one of my other bikes. My only concern with 11s is battery supply if the battery goes bad.

[@twowheelsandcroissant]

a 10-speed Tiagra bike on a Trek used to be like $800, now $2000? amazing

[@marcinstyle85]

Im glad I sorted my bike before that whole circus started :) , got my bike with full set dura ace 9100 and Im okay at leat for next 5 years hope till then everything will back to normal ...

[@ernestoechevers4741]

It was just plain stupid to make that 105 mec for disc i should have been for rim brake only because of the target market they tried to hit an missed 😂

[@the.communist]

Most road bikes come with discs, unfortunately.

[@michaelmechex]

Sorry, but I don't see it. Maybe in Florida people don't mind paying $4500 for what is effectively an entry level proper race bike, but most people elsewhere think that's ridiculous. This pushes the price of those bikes closer to $2500, which is a huge difference and the cheaper bike is even noticeably lighter. I understand that Di2 has slightly finer shifting, but I don't think it's worth it at that price.

[@GoodToCU88]

I paid $1500 for Durace group set from Merlin Cycles back in 2017. What the heck happened to the bike industry?

[@curtvaughan2836]

Covid.

[@eduardserra621]

@@curtvaughan2836Covet!

[@cup_and_cone]

Shimano created a groupset that no one will buy... because those who wanted it can't buy it because there's no rim brake option, and those who can buy it see it as a downgrade because it says 105.

[@seraph4581]

I bought one lol

[@cup_and_cone]

​@@seraph4581As part of a new bike or you bought just the groupset?

[@mikkelhenriksen]

Totally in line with you regarding missing the rimbreakoption on both mecanical, but also on DI2... for all groups

[@RicardoRocha-lg1xo]

a rim brake option would be the main reason to release this mechanical groupset… then again, they said nothing about this one when they released the Di2, so maybe the shifters will be released in a few months? Time will tell

[@gregmorrison7320]

I have 4x Ultegra 11 speed mechanical group sets both rim and disc, it's so reliable and good working that I think that will do me until I die, I just don't see any 12 speed group sets as an upgrade I want.

[@thomaseser8359]

I totally agree. We need high value mech. Groupsets. Ultegra and Dura ace. To build light and versatile bikes.

[@matthew.tamasco]

Great option for a 1st bike or the n+1 bike. I think this groupset paired with a mid-range frame will be a great option for many budgets!

[@montrose252]

I remain a mechanical rider on 11sp R8000. Down with electronics and disc brakes!

[@the.communist]

The beauty of a bicycle is its simplicity

[@mariovr8416]

You are spot on, a rimbrake version will scoop up everybody looking at upgrading an older bike. 105 di2 seems to be missing the mark also as Sram is proving to get a larger share of the market on new bikes. The only time people are considering Shimano is Dura Ace or Ultegra.

[@alexanderh2715]

I guess a lot of people get gravel bikes nowadays and sram offers extremely good groupsets for this. Apex 1x12 mullet at 600€ and around 1k I think for electronic is so good. I run rival and the shifting is perfect. After this experience I doubt that I'll ever pay more to get Shimano. Grx 1x12 is way too overpriced compared to sram apex 1x12

[@keith_cottongim]

Good point! I built my first road disc bike. After few months of riding no way I would go back to rim brake. Next groupset will be electronic. I say when I try it, no way I go back to mechanical

[@housepfhoopz]

lets see how many people that was screaming the lack of the option end up buy this "groupset of the people" when the over stock 105 di2 is very competitive pricing and not mention that sram rival axs

[@cup_and_cone]

You are overlooking the fact a large percentage of the people who wanted mechanical 12 wanted a rim brake option, so eliminating a rim brake variant eliminates a large number of people who would - or even could - buy this groupset.

[@housepfhoopz]

@@cup_and_cone yep in my option shimano should have kept at least one rim brake option

[@LOZUPONEJ]

This is probably good for new complete bike sales. Maybe a rim brake version is coming hopefully. I have 11 speed ultegra rim brake and disc brake mechanical. Yes, none of this new stuff makes me think of upgrading

[@KoenMiseur]

Nope it isn't coming, only a few people want to buy it and it's those people that comment on the internet but in RL people are asking for disc, even the old farts are now on disc after saying for years they would never get discbrakes.

[@LOZUPONEJ]

@@KoenMiseur true. This old fart isn’t giving up his 11 speed rim brake mechanical ultegra

[@robbo9229]

So true. Would dream of upgrading to this if it had a rim break option. Sad to see that rim breaks are being killed off.

[@RyonBeachner]

This is to fill a price point at an OE level. …That’s it. Comparing retail prices doesn’t make any sense when you consider everyone in the last few years always quoted online prices that were pretty heavily discounted, and this will end up no different.

[@GCPerformance18]

yea I agree with this

[@indiebikes]

Nail on the head there with 12 speed 105 rim brake. What a missed opportunity from Shimano to sell to loads of people with good quality frames and wheels, but who want a newer mechanical group.

[@jestag2]

3:05 Which is why I am not convinced with the uber high price for electronic groupsets from the big 3. They are simply conniving to rediculously overprice their products.

[@identifier_]

At 8:48 you refer to Tiagra as 11s. The current Tiagra 4700 is 10s.

[@GCPerformance18]

Wow, what a blunder on my part, I meant to say 10 speed, my dyslexia is horrible, but thank you for the correction.

[@byrondixon4648]

That's what I thought, surely GCN would have done a video of there was an update. Love Tiagra 10 speed - seems to be quieter than 11.

[@cup_and_cone]

The million dollar question all the rim brake users want to know now: Does Tiagra get a revision and 11spd, or does Shimano drop everything below 105 to rollout CUES for drop bar shifters?

[@yonglingng5640]

@@cup_and_cone I think it's said that CUES would replace Tiagra, Sora and Claris.

[@cup_and_cone]

@@yonglingng5640 To my knowledge, no drop bar shifter from CUES has been announced, so I'm not sure how they're killing off some of these tiers.

[@donjohnson487]

The 12s 105 groupset is the pinnacle of the mechanical groupset, even better than the praised 11s Dura Ace/Ultegra. It’s being fitted to sub 3000$ bikes where it brings a lot of quality to the segment.

[@7mmLongRanger]

Still rolling on 10 speed 6700. I adjust my rear derailleur about every 1000 miles (just a simple twist). Runs flawlessly.

[@malsta2010]

What I find absurd is that you can buy the 11spd mechanical 105 hydraulic groupset in the UK for around £450 - £500 atm if you shop around. The (rumoured) price for the pair of 12spd 105 mechanical shifters is £399. They are the same shifters with one extra gear. If this is true then they are around 80% of the price of the entire 11spd groupset. How is that not BS? Literally the same shifters with one extra click on one shifter. Even if the pull ratio is slightly different it is still the same shifter with no change in modelling or engineering as such.

[@osfan25]

The entire bike industry is out of their minds with pricing nowadays. 8 years ago I bout a complete 105 (5800) groupset for less than $400. Granted that was rim brake and there has been inflation since then but a 175% increase in price is hard to justify.

[@PRH123]

The cost of brifters has become absolutely nuts, you can get a whole new bike for what it would cost to replace a pair of Ultegra brifters... personally I'm sick of it and have jumped off the train, put Microshift thumbshifters and separate Tectro brake only levers on my commuter, work great, no compatibility issues, no problems....

[@Questioneverything72]

Agreed with what you said. But to add a point, we regular cyclists are in a bubble thinking charging battery is the simplest basic care like charging cellphone. How many times do I see my friends or people in group think about their bicycle maintenance only on the day of event? At this point if they just show up with their tires pumped up that’s a huge progress. 😅

[@pepessz32]

105 is claimed to be 'groupset of the people' but in reality even I as the "people" don't really see any urgency of buying a new 12sp 105. As The People I'd rather get a second hand R8020 instead.

[@the.communist]

Second hand is where its at. Loads of €€€€ to be saved

[@pepessz32]

@@the.communist true.. here used fullset r8020 can be around 570 pounds. So why buy a brand new non-electric 105 with a single extra cog? lmao

[@auricschiller]

At least the people complaining about 105 di2 can stop talking about the "groupset of the people." They have it now!

[@548jaime]

I would buy this set and put it in my aethos comp without any hesitation. Even better, I wish they would make the ultegra mechanical version too, that I would buy in a heartbeat. There’s something nice about just having to air up your tires and go without having to worry about batteries and charging batteries. Don’t get me wrong I do like my sram rival very much, I guess it’s just preference. Enjoy what you like 😃👍🏼

[@mikespadafora9077]

I can see why you don’t like it. It won’t sell your hyper priced bikes.

[@GCPerformance18]

a mechanical group these new integrated cable rigged setups will come with problems, I have customers all the time coming in looking for entry level bikes and they always reference there friend saying to buy 105 because that's what they started out with when they first started cycling, but 105 is no longer the entry level, and for some reason people still associate it as that, and then when they see the market have them prices almost 3-4k they get shell shocked, I like selling bikes to people what they can buy, I have no interest in selling something someone cant afford, it makes no beenfit to meto have to deal with a customer who is pissed off and feels like they got played, I rather them lead the sale I offer help and guidance to what they want, and let them take as much time as needed for the sale, my store isn't going out of business for one sale. This will create a happy environments and consumer who enjoys the sport even more

[@pasteragiann9638]

I think 105 mechanical groupset is gud on asian countries most asian do like affordability groupset... electronic groupset is way to expensive.. Mechanical is way cheaper than electronic

[@nigelmcclean4166]

Good point!!! Specialized might not be the best brand to use when showing pricing tho. lol

[@nlfiets]

My mechanical 32 years old specialized crossroads. A few new parts and it is working flawless. How will that be with a thirty years old Di2 of AXS?

[@snakeshiet]

they need to make cassettes available with closer ratios for us flat land people, no mountains in Florida LOL

[@andrewgordon6179]

I think 12 speed di2 rim brake is were most people want if they were to upgrade there bikes

[@ShawnIsBatman]

I don't think that the market for this is an existing 11-speed customer, you are correct in that it would not make sense for an existing 11-speed customer to choose this as an 'upgrade'. Where I believe this works (as you said) is for that new bike purchase where the customer could get a better groupset (than a lower-end Shimano set) at a better price. You seemed to completely discount the fact that this is coming-in $600 less than an electronic 105 electronic. For a person getting an entry-level bike who wants to get the best technology at a specific price-level, this could work.

[@drigobarreto]

Ow boy, unfortunately outside US government uses to threat consumers with tons of taxes. So, an electronic group set just turns out too expensive for the average Joe. Take in mind that, here in Brazil, as an example, a Tarmac SL7 Expert (6200USD) costs 60000BRL. In direct exchange rates, it does 12000USD. I’m not even close to be poor. I’m an Air Force pilot and 12000USD is almost 1/3 of annual income. Mec 105 is go go go.

[@GCPerformance18]

they should have a tarmac sl7 sport coming out

[@laneromel5667]

For me hydraulic brakes on a road bike is vast overkill. I much prefer mechanical disk brakes, yes it tales more effort, but I find I do not get the lockups that I got with hydraulic disk brakes.

[@the.communist]

On top of that, not happy with using 140mm discs, they install 160. Thats what I have in my mtb.

[@the.communist]

Imagine, i easily get lockups with my 105 rim brakes, i dont wanna think what would happen with discs

[@davidthornley2964]

105 is very popular with customers who ride in sportives (generally 100km+). Yes it is dissapointing that rim brake options are missing from both Mechanical and Di2 105 12 speed groupsets, where as the rim brake options do exist for Ultergra and Durace DI2 12 speed. Please bear in mind that GRX 12 speed is also mechanical, and it is possible to build up an Ultegra equivalent by using a road crankset, and 105 Deraileur. One of the key advantages of 105 and GRX Mechanical, is that unlike DI2, you can run an 11-36T Cassette, which will be a popular option for Sportive riders, as these events generally include at least one ridiculously steep, or long hill (See Etape Caledonia, or Loch Ness)

[@NewPolishScientist]

I don't agree. I am big fan of mechanical groupsets simply because i can fix it myself. When i bikepacking for example i take with me extra gear cable, I can't do the same with electronic.

[@lovenottheworld5723]

Most bike riders aren't bike enthusiasts. The bike is just a piece of workout equipment.

[@steveransom8134]

Great insights. Very thoughtful. Thanks for sharing.

[@GCPerformance18]

Glad it was helpful!

[@steveransom8134]

@@GCPerformance18 I have been loving the content. The industry insights are fascinating.

[@GeraldGuevara]

It makes sense if they are trying to normalize 12 speeds and 105 mechanical is the entry level. Those who already own a bike definitely won't see this as an upgrade path, but those starting out might see this as better than an 11 speed groupset eletctronic or not.

[@seansmith6455]

If this were available for rim brake I'd definitely be interested in it as a replacement groupset for my 2015, Ultegra 6800 equipped bike.

[@williamko4751]

Big brands won. They have convinced people $4000 bike is a cheap bike.

[@dylangrantz8124]

Well brother gotta keep up the lie. They have been scaming cost on di2 for an eternity. It cost tons less to build and have been raping in profits. Without mechanical you have no low end price point. At 1200 for the group is stupid. That price point gets you any of the others from China and a set of wheels. I would easily go l twoo with a set of carbon wheels long before the new 105: Hell my whole lightcarbon gravel build with ltwoo and carbon wheels cost slightly more than 105 di2 retail. The other thing if you are not a serious racer electronic shifting is kinda silly. That split second saved shifting is irrevelent on a Thursday group ride.

[@renegadeflyer2]

It looks like 105 has priced it self out of the market. It's to much much money for the average bike consumer, and not good enough for the ones with the money.

[@gravelpit4201]

Here in germany 105 di2 is roughly 1100$ and sram rival axs 1050$ what i think is the better groupset So its pretty stinky pricing that new mechanical groupset that high Ultegra di2 is 1700 and dura ace 2500

[@ulrichz4099]

you can still upgrade everything other than the shifters and derailleurs. Crankset, brakes, cassette, .. can all be upgraded to Ultegra and DuraAce

[@Ligma-Bass]

As you mentioned without the rim brake option the 105 12sp doesn’t make as much sense. I think it really opens the door for Campagnolo Chorus 12sp. I know it’s a smaller part of the market but people like me that like to modernise older bikes Chorus is now the best(and perhaps only) budget 12sp mechanical rim brake option. I built my winter/training bike with Chorus 12sp and it’s performed flawlessly. Then the other side of the coin is the average person, the majority of people seem to want the beep boop of electric. Personally I know so many keen cyclists that don’t have the time or inclination to maintain a mechanical groupset. So for that big percentage of road cyclists electric is the option to go for. The 105 12sp mechanical kind of solves a problem that doesn’t exist.

[@bikingchupei2447]

9:00 i dunno if it's US prices or specialized prices, but the newly released 2024 version 12 speed 105 mech TCR ADVANCED DISC 2 PRO COMPACT(or just KOM here in Taiwan) cost less than 2000USD.

[@GCPerformance18]

okay then, that is a steal of a deal to be hoenst lol, but i have not seen that released yet here

[@Onigure]

The normal upgrade path for begginers was too steep. My gf has Sora and she loves it. But 105 di2 is too much a jump for someone not savy in bike stuff. With 105 mec hydraulic I can start to think about a nice christmas present.

[@michaelcawley7400]

I’m surprised someone hasn’t come out with a good hydraulic rim brake caliper to open compatibility for rim brake frames to modern groupsets

[@yonglingng5640]

There's probably not a sufficiently large market for it. Remember what SRAM did?

[@Pmor75]

There is a market for sure. Sram launched the product way too early and it was a mechanical groupset. My opinion is that a good hydraulic rim brake is perhaps difficult to be created. Otherwise they would have done it by now...it would open a new market for Shimano..

[@the.communist]

Good idea

[@mike_f]

Seems like the amount of travel (stroke) a piston would need to actuate a rim brake is beyond what existing levers would be able to do.

[@Pmor75]

@@mike_f yes something like that. In a perfect world the same shifters would be interchangeable between rim and disc brakes, which I assume currently is impossible....

[@dominicbritt]

Bike makers are not asking Shimano and SRAM for rim brake groupsets anymore because they have phased out making 2 frames for each model. It’s all about what OEM customers are asking for.

[@chrispalmer3096]

What customers are asking for....or what manufacturers are supplying?

[@paullefko]

Seriously WGAS of one extra gear mechanical vs electronic. For 99 percent of riders, 99 percent of the time 11 mechanical vs 12 electronic will make essentially zero difference. For the racers, electronic shifting is helpful, for frozen hands…. It’s helpful. I just purchased a 105 mechanical disk group set to put on my 2021 Caledonia frame for 250 dollars. That’s a whole bunch of value on a great frame set.

[@АнтонАлексеенко-р1у]

Di2 won't make you faster a single bit. 600$ spent on coaching will. A real coach price will vary in different places so I'll keep it simple - 600$ is almost 4 years of trainer road subscription. If you compare two beginners 4 years down their cycling journey, one of which spent 600$ on Di2 and another on trainig you will have quite a bit difference in speed.

[@GCPerformance18]

thisd is true, it will never make you fastyer and there is no need for it, only benefit is the shifting underload, but honestly not needed to do anything

[@owensnicholas]

You’re obviously more of an expert on the market than I am. But I have a 2021 bike with 105 mechanical and hydraulic disc. It’s kind of all I need. Still, I get your point. Who is this for? How many weirdos are there like me right now buying the same bike I did two and a half years ago? I’m not going to ‘upgrade’ to 12-speed 105. If I were to upgrade, it would be to electronic. But I don’t see the value in that for me, either.

[@blueninjasix]

For people whos frames can't take DI2 due to holes not being big enough for a cable to pass through

[@GCPerformance18]

this is true, but also usually those people have a rim brake bike as well

[@pawelodz8050]

I would love to switch to Sram AXS as most of my riding mates has electric groups and I see advantages. Same time I use hydraulic/mechanical r8020 Ultegra and I can compete with them during killer workouts. That's why I believe this new 105 is excellent offer.

[@RonBalone]

My man, you really just said 1100 and 1700 are pretty close in price?!?! LOL

[@justsomedude7556]

I replaced my 11 speed mechanical for a SRAM Force AXS and will not go back to Mechanical and I have a rim brake. The only one I could get electronic in Rim was SRAM.

[@Jacob99174]

You nailed it, GC

[@jarhead4657]

No. He didn’t. I can’t believe this guy sells bikes and says so many dumb things.

[@screwb1882]

As someone who is focused on touring I NEVER want to deal with batteries on my fucking bike. I would have been happy if they just made 11 speed 105 cheaper or lighter. Hell they can rebrand 11 speed 105 to Tiagra and update the hood ergonomics. 12 speed mechanical seems like it would be SUPER finicky and not something I want to deal with on a 2 week tour.

[@tomrachellesfirstdance7843]

I think people were annoyed that they did not release a rim brake option, not so much the fact they did not release a mechanical groupset.

[@db613]

The main reason for Shimano Mechanical is ultra distance riders cannot recharge during a 3 day race, or carry spare battery to swap like Sram offers, and 105 is just fine for a cross country Rider who anyway is carrying 40 lbs of gear who cares the extra 1 lb of the groupset

[@toite3x3ninjah]

Totally agree with you!! Too many electronical stuff floating around now a days.

[@mikecortes8481]

Absolutely agree with you.🤙

[@samteenoise]

105 mechanical doesn't make much sense because there are no Ultegra / Dura-Ace options to which a rider can later on upgrade to. Yeah, the cost of production for electronical groupsets might be getting cheaper, but the final price for the consumer is still way above the mechanical options, and for me personally it doesn't make much sense to switch to electronic groupsets yet. I'm upgrading my bike next year and I'll def. go for an Ultegra R8000. In some cases it is even cheaper to get that than the new 105

[@jwfriar]

Agree - if you are so hard up to save a few bucks by going mechanical, what’s the difference with 11sp Tiagara. Might as well save more with that. If I’m going 105 now, it’s for sure Di2.

[@the.communist]

Well the difference is 12 speeds

[@jwfriar]

@@the.communist “Insightful”

[@Jay1614]

I would buy a 105 12 speed mechanical with rim brake Groupset or a 105 12 speed di2 with rim brake Groupset. The fact that these new releases are not rim brake is the reason I will not purchase.

[@GCPerformance18]

yea I do not know why they miseed the mark so badly on this

[@davidnicholson6680]

At $1,200 this makes zero sense. Electronic needs to come down in price, but this is only a couple hundred bucks less than current Rival AXS prices. Add in the fact that this won't work well with lots of modern frames, dealing with cable maintenance etc. Again, SRAM and Shimano are charging far too much for electronic... but mechanical is basically irrelevant at this price point. Also, all these people saying they "don't want batteries" on their bike: you do realize that the RD AXS battery needs charging only after thousands of miles and Di2 batteries even longer? It's not really a concern.

[@tyrone0731]

I’m upgrading from Sora R3000 to 105 R7120, so, I am their target market.

[@iMadrid11]

This groupset could make sense as an upgrade. If Magura releases a hydraulic rim brake option for 12 speed mechanical 105.

[@future62]

I haven't ridden an electronic groupset and I'm happy to not know what I'm missing. $1700 is a couple hundred dollars away from a very decent hydraulic R7000 build with Chinese components.

[@MrFalcman]

I don't understand this huge push by the bike industry towards electronic shifting and to disc brakes. I enjoy mechanical and don't want to have to worry about batteries before i ride. Di2 can and probably will fail on a ride. Electronics break all the time, so I would rather go with the tried and true mechanical shifters.

[@alexanderh2715]

My gravelbike has sram rival on it and I will definitely stay with sram. I really enjoy the shifting. I don't think for most people 12 speed is worth it. Just more expensive, more fragile chain etc.

[@kimwarner6050]

They should have made a rim brake di2 version that runs 8-11 speed. People have old rim brake bikes and would upgrade. Thos groupset is stupid, go home Shimano your drunk

[@carnicer78]

Your video just confirmed the data I had read when that was launched. The shortest gear ratio is 34t-36t (0.944). I have exactly that in my urban bike featuring an old, cheap 8-speed shimano claris (I replaced the cassette which had a max of 28t). What do you want 12 speed for that with a ultra wide cassette? To do super precise shifting? I have enough shifting precision with the one I own. I would expect that the default would be 11-36 and then a minimum of 11-42, or even 12-42. Otherwise it makes no sense.

[@leslie7922]

A bit of consolidation could be good, one type of wheels one type of brakes. But as both a rim and disc brake owner Holy smokes I'm forever servicing my disc brakes they drive me fkn crazy. Before anyone says "oh mine is fine" go descend some mountains or ride on dirty roads on a rainy day, then come back and let's chat. Tired of flat earthers and sunny day only riders thinking disc brakes are fault free.

[@DamienClarke2438]

The customers who prefer mechanical gear systems is less motivated to purchase a bike with technology they do not prefer. You can make a value judgement about these customers but that is all it is.

[@DoNuT_1985]

You missed one point with Di2 being reliable. PCBs, connectors, cables fail, and it is likely that they will after 5 or 10 years. I have no experience with Di2 itself but with plenty of consumer electronic devices. I've had several Garmin devices, smartphones or touchpanel cooker hoods that didn't make it past the 5 year mark. Having 4 electronic units on your bikes gives you a good chance that at least one will fail... I'm not sure how long it usually takes until Shimano phases out their top tier groupsets and you only get used parts, but it is probably less of a gamble to keep fully mechanic components alive... of course, STIs may also break but you have more influence by cleaning and greasing stuff regularly. Not much you can do for a PCB other than not touching it.

[@TheMachoGabacho]

I like aluminium frames, and I’m currently riding a Trek Domane. The 12 speed 105 Domane is $100 cheaper than the 11 speed 105 Domane. I don’t get how that works!

[@aRlyWeakCyclist]

I really felt that KYYYYAAAAHHHHH!

[@hughjanus7354]

Tiara is 11 speed bro? Is that a special edition for pseudo experts from Florida?

[@giodc8599]

I mean, sure as shit you won't see me ever on a rim brake bike or on a mechanical groupset. It's 2024 almost, for fuck's sake.

[@nochancecw]

12 speed cassette makes a huge difference if you live in the mountains. When you have to pick between an 11-32 or and 11-34, you have to pick the 11-32 with a tighter top range or an 11-34 for better bottom end with a loss to the tighter top end. And 11-36 with 12 speed solves this. Flat, i agree, but mountains, the extra gear is massive. Edit: wrong word.

[@LuciTulcea]

This whole electronic shifting is a scheme to milk cyclists of money. Had a ten speed 105 which was perfect to me. Why should I buy an electronic transmission which would cost me hundreds of dollars to replace parts in case of a crash or malfunction?! Oh because it shifts marginally better? Fuck that!

[@Rich-zb7vc]

You are right, if you are offering things to the luddites, go all the way and bring rim brakes to the table. But the bigger issue is, cyclists are slow to change, the bike industry should take the lead and eliminate antiquated technologies. People will complain but will accept it. Let’s look at auto, it’s a good comparison, the car industry eliminates manual shifting because it is surpassed by automatic (i love manual!). The last point is the only healthy part on the industry right now is top price points, why focus on mid price points while there is no one there ( and your point is right, it moves into a false higher price point, get Di2)

[@lazyac_]

i'm bored to charge my bike now. Mechanical is like if something stay simple and elegant. I work in IT as an engineer, i like when going back home somthing doesn't ask me to log in ,makes updates, to charge ...

[@bigwave_dave8468]

Good stuff. I don't think you can make the assertion that the mechanical bits cost significantly more than the electronic bits unless you see the COGS (cost of goods sold) punch list. PCBs are cheap but the cost of the chips varies -- microcontroller, wifi/ble chips and you've got 4 assemblies with batteries for each. Maybe you'd know if somebody does a teardown to identify the exact components you'd have a better answer...but I'm not tearing my down 🙂 One thing is for sure, the margins on the electronic group sets are extreme -- It's difficult to find a bike with 105 Electronic group set for

[@the.communist]

Theres a point: people who want 12 speed n mechanical but i think they should have done a rim brake version as well. Rim brake bikes still being produced.

[@infinati]

They made the mechanical option for bike brands to slap on a lower-mid range bike. Will people with an R8000 switch over by just buying the groupset? No. But a person walking into a LBS for a new bike with not quite enough money for electronic can go the "cheap" route by going with a mechanical option.