Why I use A Diversity RX For Long Range FPV & A New 2.5W VTX

[@GiantAntCowboy]

What I love about Analog and/or HDZero is you get real-time feedback about your LOS & Antenna aiming. So important for these sort of flights, DJI/WS are so sketchy in these situations… Fun flight, thanks for taking us on the ride. Cheers bud!

[@FalconRadFPV]

Couldn't agree more!

[@mlentsch]

That's funny - I totally disagree - you can get "real-time" feedback with your digital systems...check out the latency and bitrate. look how slow he's flying... perfect for digital. The analog picture sucks so bad... why would you want to deal with that?

[@GiantAntCowboy]

@@mlentsch both FalconRad & I have used DJI/WS systems for Mountain Surfing and found them to be sketchy in tricky LOS situations (Flying close to a ridge line, in between cliffs, or while diving into valleys). Watching Bitrate/Latency figures isn’t ideal when flying close proximity, (also theses figures are often inaccurate/delayed) but the real issue comes when you actually lose LOS. • If you fly behind a cliff with Analog/HDZero it instantly turns to static and then instantly returns when LOS is restored. • If you fly behind a cliff with DJI/WS the system first tries to fix the image by requesting the missing packets (at this point the image is basically a blurry freeze frame), then if it can’t get the packets it goes to a blank screen. (This can be 500ms to 1 second). Worse, if system completely disconnects it can take a second or two to reconnect once LOS is restored. All this time adds up (1 second at 80kph = 22m, or 72ft), and is often a disaster in these environments. Here’s some penetration/mountain testing I did with WalkSnail a couple months ago that demonstrates these points. “WalkSnail vs HDZero, FPV Penetration & Mountain Range Tests!” kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZmfJh2WshsarjZo People should fly what they are comfortable with, just pointing out that there are disadvantages to DJI.

[@mlentsch]

@@GiantAntCowboy Yeah, that makes sense - I did lose walksnail once for like a second.. that was disconcerting... perhaps they'll add a one-way mode someday that'll work more like analog.. Kind of like hdzero but with better range... I guess I'll watch your video - lol.

[@GiantAntCowboy]

@@mlentsch yea check out the video, pretty neat tests, I pushed the penetration limits of both systems to the edge and it’s interesting to see how each responds. I’ve mentioned this “one-way” WalkSnail mode before as well, it would definitely be neat and certainly be a great feature for the system. Appreciate the open-minded response, so many people in this hobby get die-hard about the system they fly… I think each has pros & cons depending on your uses.

[@Sonic_Ox]

Thanks for another interesting, informative, and entertaining video FalconRad. I love when you discuss your gear. I'm going to use those molicels for my first diy pack. Thanks for the valuable info. Happy flying amigo and have a Merry Christmas 🎅. 👍

[@FalconRadFPV]

Awesome, thank you!

[@DroneVisionIT]

Spectacular! I've been working on editing some FPV videos myself, but there's always so much to learn from watching great work like this.

[@FalconRadFPV]

Thanks a lot!

[@pilotndablek]

The thrilling flight, flying low to the ground, was truly amazing 👍

[@FpvLongRangeHobby]

Another great video, thank you for sharing these and overall for your motivation. I just bought my first long range drone and learning through your videos. Have a nice holiday period with great flights!

[@FalconRadFPV]

Happy holidays!

[@HuMaNiTaRiAn1]

Love the commentary on these vids.

[@MichaelJamesNoggin]

I really love the valley/ creek exploring you do and I have always wanted to but watching you is better! Thanks

[@FalconRadFPV]

Awesome, thank you!

[@PavelMy]

It was incredible as always, Falcon

[@jamesstewart9970]

Awesome video! I think I’m going to give the radiomaster bandit module a try in my tx16s, I have a sneaking feeling it will output two watts just like the ranger module in 2.4ghz will and Iflight recently released a true diversity 900mhz elrs receiver with 500mw of telemetry power so I think it will have the potential to do extremely well range wise compared to crossfire. Will be trying it out in my helion 10.

[@vasobg12]

Epic, like always! Happy holidays.

[@TomHerriman]

Great flight! I really enjoy the informative dialog. Speaking of information, how do you connect your GPS with the FC you've listed? If you followT-mMotor's suggestion the compass/GPS and ESC will both be on UART 4.

[@bebenoeg5188]

Nice dive, fun flight.. 👍 like it..! 😍🔥🔥🔥

[@FalconRadFPV]

Thanks ✌

[@koalafpv]

Sweet! Another nice flight.

[@FalconRadFPV]

Thanks ✌

[@k4x4map46]

nice!1 yeah a reiew of yhose batteries would be cool, when ya have the time!! interesting about two packs versus one...

[@JSKCKNIT]

Another amazing flight! I love seeing those mountains. 🤙🏾

[@FalconRadFPV]

Thanks 👍

[@MCsCreations]

Amazing flying and footage, dude!!! 😃 About the radio, perhaps you should try the Radiomaster Zorro. It's much closer to the form factor of the X Lite. Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊 Merry Christmas and happy new year!

[@FalconRadFPV]

Thanks for the tips! Ya I've been thinking about trying the Zorro TX. I like the game controller style of transmitter. Happy holidays!

[@k4x4map46]

Copy that!! ..will add the True-Mox 915!! thanks for this overview!

[@goodheaven007]

Great video. I am impressed by how efficient your long range rig is. Your amp draw is so low and at the end you only used 2700mah of battery. My chimera 7 pro v2 will probably draw about 18-20 amps constantly when going up a mountain like this while yours was in the low teens. Is it because of the lighter frame? More efficient motors? Thanks!

[@FalconRadFPV]

Thank you! Most of my long range builds are made for efficiency and I've been perfecting my setup over the last few years. This is my Falcon RPM frame, focused on flight performance and HD camera mounting options. Similar size to a chimera 7. My other frame and long range build, the RAD Li-ion is made for max efficiency and does about 6 to 10% better than this build for low amp draw, efficiency and flight times. Chimera's are a bit heavy with big motors, they can probably fly quite fast, not optimal for long range though. The gopro up on top of the top plate also adds extra drag, along with battery placement options will all influence the efficiency and flight time.

[@goodheaven007]

Amazing! I will be extremely interested if there is a BNF version of your frame. Honestly I enjoy more flying than building an FPV drone. I don’t mind repairing it but building from scratch takes a long time. Thank you!

[@TheParadigmShiftTV]

I need diversity on my quad. I keep failsafing in the middle of turning around to come back home if I go out past 3kms. This definitely seems like the fix for that.

[@FalconRadFPV]

It likely would help your situation to have a diversity RX. But it could also be your antennas placement and/or orientation on the drone. It does sound like you are likely using an immortal T and probably pointing the null end of the antenna towards home as you turn around. Are you using an immortal t on your TX? A TBS diamond or TrueRC truemox would likely improve your transmitters reception of the signal without needing to make changes to any drones.

[@TheParadigmShiftTV]

Thanks, I just ordered a TBS Diamond antenna to use on my TBS tx module. Will see if it helps. I get the same issue with my Crossfire & ELRS quads. I like the idea of having one antenna vertical and another horizontal like you have for full coverage when diving cliffs further out. Will try that if this doesn't give me the distance I need.@@FalconRadFPV

[@thafactor24]

Maaaan I have over 80 quads and I'm still afraid to fly far 😅😅😅😅 your awesome brother

[@tanoenaczycaitin]

awesome flight... 👏🤩

[@stevegourdon4211]

Sur la TV du salon c'est cool 😉 Très belles lignes comme d'habitude A bientôt

[@DontSayBad]

Great vid as always. I wounder would 8s2p 21700 (e.g. samsung 50S) perform better? Less current and more mAh (10000). But yes, the weight. Maybe such batteries is more suitable for the larger quads.

[@FalconRadFPV]

6s2p 21700 is getting pretty heavy for a 7" drone. A 7.5" with 3008 motors handles 6s2p 21700 alright but it still fly's feeling heavy. 8s2p 21700 would require a 9 or 10" drone to manage the weight nicely. 6s2p 18650 is the sweet spot for 7 and 7.5" builds in my opinion. For 7 or 7.5" 8s1p would be an appropriate size. I've gotten almost 40 minute flights from 8s1p on 7" with 5000mAh li-ion cells.

[@DontSayBad]

@@FalconRadFPV How could you tell if the battery is too heavy for the drone? Is there some kind of numerical values or it's just the feeling?

[@trevorbowman351]

Love your videos . Whay size strap do you usually use with li-ion batteries

[@FalconRadFPV]

I think it's 280 or 300mm that works, but it also depends on how the strap is made, shorter ones will work for 18650 packs if the velcro on the buckle side is 3/4 of the length or so.

[@PavelMy]

Falcon, what is your opinion about 10 inch drones? Are they better for slow flight with Sony's big camera? and would you fly in the mountains on the 10th instead of the 7th?

[@FalconRadFPV]

I've never flown a 10" but I know the vibrations will be an issue to deal with. The bigger a propeller is the lower frequency of vibrations it will create. At 7 or 7.5" the drone needs to be fairly well designed to keep vibrations from being an issue, with a 10" it will be even more difficult to keep GoPro footage as crisp and clear as with a 7". I would question if maybe a 7" hex or octo would do a better job with a heavy camera and long range than a 10" would. I've flown my octo 6km out, diving mountains and waterfalls. A 10" will be a bit more efficient than a 7" octo but the octo will have an easier time getting crisp gopro footage due to the 10" having a much lower prop speed.

[@PavelMy]

@@FalconRadFPV Thank you, Falcon, I think your advice will change my choice of a new drone. The iflifgt has two drones of 9 and 10 inches, with 6 mm beams. Do you think there will be vibration with them anyway?

[@PavelMy]

thank you so much for such a detailed answer

[@TERBANGFPV]

that Y xt60 adaptor wire will add resistance right? and lower the voltage a bit. but you still get max FT with the setup..

[@FalconRadFPV]

Yess you are correct. But it is a VERY TINY amount. I'm only guessing but the voltage drop would probably be less than 0.1 of a volt and the resistance difference would be almost nothing if you use 12 or 14g wire. You'll waste more mAh by plugging your drone in and waiting 30 seconds before taking off.

[@TERBANGFPV]

@@FalconRadFPV i see. But wait is that xt90 to 2 xt60 ?

[@josephrsalexander4589]

Have you tried/seen the foxeer 5 MW VTXs 5.8 and 1.2 ghzs? I'm too new to know anything about 1.2 ghz vtxs.

[@FalconRadFPV]

THe antennas get bigger as you go lower in ghz. 5.8 goes 10km easy. 1.2 and 2.4 will get better penetration but I don't think its worth the hassle since 5.8 is working great for me.

[@gregdavidd]

Where would I find that bardpole antenna? I assume that if it works for Crossfire it will work for ELRS 915mhz?

[@FalconRadFPV]

TrueRC used to sell bardpoles, but it's expensive getting shipping right from them. Not sure where to get them now, I've started making my own so I haven't bought one in a year or two. I'm hoping to get around to making a video about it. Should work for any 915mhz RX.

[@gregdavidd]

@@FalconRadFPV Oh thats cool. Id love to see that video :) So I could use one T antenna and one bardpole and its OK to mix the types?

[@kerrymillar4981]

Dark lithium sells the p45b cells in 6s2p

[@FalconRadFPV]

Oh great. I've heard good things about them. They are one of the few companies that use high quality li-ion cells rather than common cheap ones.

[@bohaman.]

Hello sir, I followed your drone build and currently using the same set up with the nano diversity receiver crossfire and the extended immortal antenna. However, I do not have good distance like yours. I have it set up at 100mw on my transmitter and have dynamic power on but I get about 100-200m LOS and I already got "telemetry lost alarm". Would you happened to know what I may have done wrong? THank you sir.

[@FalconRadFPV]

If you contact me by email at [e-mail] and send me a couple of pictures of your build I might be able to spot some sort of problem with the antenna mounting or something. You should change from dynamic power to a set power level, it's more reliable. If you plan to fly out at range boost the power up to 250mW (although 100mW should get you plenty of km's of range) It must be something to do with your antennas I'm guessing. You also need to make sure that the transmitter, BF and crossfire module are all using compatible firmware. I'm on 6.17 for crossfire, using 6.19 and crossfire V3 wasn't working well enough for me. Also the telemetry lost alarm doesn't really mean anything, I used to get it all the time while km's out. I don't really get that any more though, are you on updated firmware?

[@fearlessflyersfpv420]

why not go for the 5W foxeer infinity VTX?

[@FalconRadFPV]

The 5w VTX is huge, it won't fit in a regular 7" frame. You need something BIG, maybe a 10 inch? It's maybe 12x the size (by volume) of a rush solo VTX. This 2.5W from GEPRC that I'm going to try out just barely fits in my 7" RAD Li-ion build and the 5W one is about 3 X bigger, its huge!

[@fearlessflyersfpv420]

haha, i know what you mean, but had one in my 5" APEX :D I actually saw demibot 5" build it fit in well though...@@FalconRadFPV

[@Bigbeardfpv]

as a beginner in long range FPV - for 2808 motors at 1500kv - would you recommend a 2600MAH 6s lipo, or should I be going larger as in greater than 3000 mah?

[@FalconRadFPV]

Depends on what you are using for your drone and the environment you have to fly in. On one build a 2600mAh will get you 5 min and 5km on a different build it'll give you 10km and 10min. I usually use a battery that will get me where I want to go. If I'm going 2 or 3 km out and back I'll use a 3000mAh lipo on my Falcon frames, but on my RAD Li-ion frame I'd use a 6s li-ion pack because a 3000mAh lipo won't fit on the top plate. If I'm going 5km out I'll use a 6s2p li-ion battery made from 18650 cells for 5600mAh total. On the Falcon frames it fits all on the top plate, on my RAD Li-ion build I would split it into two 6s1p packs and mount one on top and the other underneath. It's best to fly with the right size battery for the distance you want to go. That way that drone isn't carrying too much extra weight and will have better handling. 2600mAh is about the most mAh you'll get in a battery in the 110mm size range. For more mAh the larger batteries step up in size to about 145mm for anything 3000mAh or bigger. If you are new to long range I would suggest a focus on learning about your video signal and how it is affected by having trees or a hillside in the way. Start off with less range and get comfortable with how you are going to respond when your video cuts out before jumping right to going as far as you can.

[@stevegourdon4211]

coucou !! j'attends avec impatience ;)

[@zachspiker8475]

I have a 6s2p battery with 5600mah what mah and voltage is it safe to take down to for long range flights?

[@FalconRadFPV]

So Li-ion cells performance will vary from brand to brand, but generally with modern li-ion cells you should be ok flying until the voltage reaches 3.0v With most li-ion cell types there will be very little capacity left once you reach 3.0v and the voltage will usually start to drop quickly at that point. With my 6s2p P28A li-ion packs (5600mAh rated) I get about 4900 to 5000 mAh out of it before reaching 3.0v and the voltage starts dropping quickly.

[@almacfpv74]

So those props hq reinforced glass nylon? What do you think of them?

[@almacfpv74]

Nvrmnd I figured out they are😅 they looked like thise props. I just picked some up for my 7" and was curious if you had anything to say about them

[@FalconRadFPV]

I always use the polycarbonate props. The cf/glass nylon ones are nice and stiff but they shatter on impact. So for me flying long range, I will take extra durability over a slight performance improvement. I'd rather make sure my drone has the best chance of making it back home after a branch strike.

[@almacfpv74]

@@FalconRadFPV agreed 🙂

[@hayeopreis]

Hello FalconRad FPV. I don’t have a drone, but want to buy one. I would love to fly over the mountains like you and make good quality video recordings. I understand it takes a lot of practice. I’m thinking to buy a Chimera7 Pro from the iflight website, but I don’t know if I should go for one with an analog 5.8G 1.6W VTX, or one with a digital DJI O3 AIR UNIT. And then which goggles to go with this. Maybe you can help me out?

[@FalconRadFPV]

It's a big decision choosing analog or digital. Of course digital is going to look much nicer when flying and give you more detail. Analog's advantage over digital (DJI at least) is the video reset time. For a lot of people it won't make much difference. But for some, like me, the longer video reset time is tough to deal with if you fly very close to the environment and increase the risk level. If you plan on being higher up in the air away from ridge lines and rocky outcroppings that can block the video signal then it shouldn't be an issue. As for goggles there is so much choice now, it's really a little different for everyone. Orqa and fatshark make pretty good analog goggles. For DJI the goggles V2 have more ability to add aftermarket antennas which helps a lot with range. But with the 03 air unit even the goggles 2 will still get pretty good range with only a pair of swappable antennas and the other two are internal. Then there isHD Zero, it's digital but looks like high quality analog. The video loss also responds like analog video, it breaks up and losses clarity but does not freeze and or turn off like the DJI system does. It's all pretty subjective, ask 10 people the same question and you'll get at least 5 different answers. I really enjoy flying DJI but it worries me to really push the limits on losing video. With analog I'll fly behind a mountain ridgeline and see the video go really bad, so i'll gain a few feet of elevation and the signal clears up. So I can "ride the line" of losing video without to much worry just a little throttle and the video comes back. With my DJI and goggles V2 and 03 air unit it looks great until it doesn't and suddenly it's frozen. I never "ride the line" of losing video with my DJI setup, way too sketchy. I haven't used the goggles 2 at all but I've heard that they are trying to make it easier to know when the video will cut out, the newer goggles 2 and I think integra are supposed to have red bars that appear at the edge of the screen to indicate how strong the video signal is and if it's getting close to failing. Unfortunately the goggles V2 don't have that option, DJI kinda sucks at firmware updates, they'll do a bunch and then just stop making them and expect you to just buy the newer goggles to get the latest improvements. I'm sure they could add it to the older goggles, but they just drop support after they newest thing comes out. A lot of people don't like DJI and for valid reasons but it's hard to say no to such beautiful video in your goggles. This is a decision that you should make after hearing several peoples opinions about. My guess is maybe choose the DJI version and just be a bit more careful when flying long range, but that is much more easily said than done. I lost video a bunch of times back when I was still learning long range.

[@hayeopreis]

@@FalconRadFPV Thank you for your elaborate answer! I’m leaning towards analog on the moment. I’m living in Europe (The Netherlands). I heard the DJI O3 Air unit and/or DJI goggles might be limited to a range of 2km because of CE standards, and that you can hack the firmware, but this does not always work. Regarding analog goggles I also heard about the “SKYZONE Cobra x V2 Diversity” Do you also have an opinion about these things?

[@naghamfakih5921]

hello ,what is max distance of vtx solo rush 2.5 watt?

[@FalconRadFPV]

It's difficult to explain output power and range sort of.... 200mW can go 10km if there are good antennas on both ends of the transmission. 2.5w with good antennas will probably clear 100km in good conditions. With the distances that drones are capable of the difference between say 800mW and 2.5w will just be slightly better clarity. A higher output power will have it's most notable impact when compared in obstruction penetration. Like getting behind some trees when several kms out, 2.5w will manage to get a much better signal through the trees than 800mW will, in this situation I think you'll see a bigger difference between the two output powers.

[@kevinglenister6520]

You must be a fellow Canadian?

[@FalconRadFPV]

Yup!

[@TNT_FPV]

nice =] i want one!

[@ImperialArmour]

Interesting you would choose a 2.5w 5ghz VTX over a 1.3ghz one.

[@FalconRadFPV]

The antennas are way smaller for 5.8, and it hold out fine for 10km easy.

[@gregdavidd]

Im running out of superlatives to describe your flying :)

[@romaniafromabove]

Regarding radiomaster tx16s not feeling right, I think you just need to loosen the sticks. There are 2 screws for each of the sticks. Mr Steele has a tutorial here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n5CQmIqkptaLmrs.

[@rizzofox8689]

Nice footage....pretty sure I seen bigfoot in there

[@mark6302]

jesus man 12s and 2.5 mw you should be able to get to ganymede

[@FalconRadFPV]

It's 6s, two 6s packs in parallel. So the voltage stays the same, but the mAh capacity is doubled by adding the second pack. In parallel the two packs will also share the current output making it easier on them.

[@zawisza__czarny]