Why I Won't Buy Another Kiesel Guitar.

[@dadolin01]

That guy Jeff has been known for his shitty attitude towards customers (because he didn't have to build a business from the ground up, his dad did) so after discovering stories like yours on KZbin while researching Kiesel bass guitar models, I immediately dismissed an idea of buying a Kiesel bass that I was working myself up to at that point. I'm glad I heard those stories beforehand, otherwise I wouldn't have felt good about my purchase, regardless of the quality of instrument. Thank you for doing your part and speaking out. I hope you sell those guitars well and find the right brand for you.

[@MercutioUK2006]

I've owned five different Carvin instruments, but I would never buy a Kiesel. Jeff's disgusting attitude towards his customers, and a number of stories that have been related concerning the appalling customer service in the event of faults have led me to the conclusion that he's destroyed the good name of the company he inhereted and I have no confidence in the product.

[@ReifSpano1]

I consider this video to be a worthwhile warning about a brand. It's a shame you don't want to gig or play these guitars in public anymore, but I see ethical postion you are taking. Well done, and BUYER BEWARE!

[@MercutioUK2006]

@@asimhussain8716Just prey you never choose an option 50 or have to return it.

[@jomesias]

@@asimhussain8716 bruh get ready for a not so roasted neck, if you choose the roasted neck option lol thats one of the complaints from customers that paid almost $3k for their Kiesel. Also the neck shape and countour is the sexy part of the guitar lol thats the comfortability, even if it looks like a million bucks but the neck is the same fat C shape it wont play like a million bucks. on that note, if you have the money to drop on the Kiesel, drop it on a Strandberg's modern line instead. with the neck countour. $3k either way! cheers

[@johnpick8336]

Jeff Kiesel can't be worse than Bass Builder Kieth Roscoe.

[@Pilot7826]

Someone once described Jeff as being the human embodiment of an Affliction t-shirt. 😂

[@Alienadin]

LOL

[@shawnallen2112]

That’s spot on.

[@lipptech1]

Jeff look's like a meth dealer !!

[@SomeRandomPerson80]

That's the only thing I needed to know to steer clear of them!

[@T0tenkampf]

spot on

[@JRLesPaul]

Jeff Kiesel is a bit immature. To say the least.

[@hardyharhar9]

I miss Carvin. A couple of my guitars have Carvin pickups and they sound really sweet. Carvin made amps and speakers and mixers.

[@vacustoms]

Those were the days... every now and again I find a used one that was well cared for...

[@Scott__C]

@@vacustoms I just picked up a Vai model amp for a pretty good price.

[@peterkelly8357]

@@vacustomsCarvin always advertised in Guitar Player magazine in the 1980s and for someone like me from the UK they seemed so out of reach

[@T0tenkampf]

Carvin Audio still makes amps, cabs and PA equipment but they did scale way back...the company split and Jeff's uncle took that part.

[@ericv7720]

I have an old Carvin MTS 100w combo amp. It's all I ever need! It's from the days when Jeff's dad and uncle ran the company (the uncle ran the electronics side, from what I remember).

[@insightguitars]

Jeff banning people displaying his childish ego, very stupid move thats not how you treat customers. He doesnt like fair criticism, no tolerance for those who have something to say.

[@baimun]

I had owned a couple Carvin guitars and some were better than others, so I gave a Kiesel build a try... a custom C6 piezo build. There were several options I was asking for like fanned frets and the salesman assured me that the option wasn't coming. Flash forward a month or so later and BAM... Fanned Frets. I call to adjust my order and they tell me I'd have to cancel my order and I'd lose the $500 deposit (even though the build wasn't started). I was also told that a chambered body wasn't available with the bolt on (C6) body and when the guitar arrived, it was a boat anchor. Seriously heavier than Les Paul and the piezo was pretty crap sounding. When I reached out within the 10 day return window I was told that because I ordered a fatter neck (on a bolt on) it was "Option 50" which meant it was non-returnable. I swapped out different parts to the point where the best sounding ones were basically a Warmoth Build and an expensive pile of random Kiesel parts and a body that got modified until it became a Floyd Rose Routing template and some scrap wood. Flash forward several years and I grab one of the first PRS SE Piezo hollowbodies available from a Sweetwater pre-order and it's LEAGUES better in sound, playability and is light enough for a 3 hour bar gig. Fool me once Jeff... but there are SO MANY better options up and down the price range now. ☮❤🎶

[@Alienadin]

Man, that sucks. So sorry this happened to you. But he did and probably does this all the time: No, we will never do that.....fast forward a couple of months......We are doing this now. Buy now!

[@Scott__C]

@@Alienadin I bet it's some guitarist who they want to sell signatures of asks for it, so it's just dandy. That's my only beef with Paul Smith. He's dead against doing something until a celeb player asks for it.

[@bluglass7819]

Your post makes me wish I could build at a faster, more consistent rate.

[@baimun]

I build instruments myself.... Keep making fine wines instead of mass produced pilsners. 😜@@bluglass7819

[@SomeRandomPerson80]

Who would you recommend for North American customs in the same price range?

[@MrRMB1]

I agree, that's not how you treat a customer. He could have replied that he understood how you felt but it wasn't a popular item and it was simply a business decision. I would continue using their guitars, afterall, you paid for them, but would cover up the brand and never disclose what you're playing. Thanks for sharing!

[@thesaguitarian9430]

I would sell them instead of playing them.

[@rodfiori1968]

In a time when we have numerous high-quality guitar choices in all budget ranges, customer service and simple courtesy can help tip the scales when making purchase decisions. Thanks for sharing your story.

[@dennishickey7194]

" No soup for you!"

[@Scott__C]

Absolutely. Went to Sweetwater Gearfest when it was still in person and got to talk directly with people from many manufacturers and they were all great, including Paul Reed Smith himself. No reason for that kind of treatment of folks who are just asking a simple question as to why something's being phased out.

[@vacustoms]

I found a couple luthiers in my local area that produce quality at a similar if not more competitive price... And they're hungy. I mean they are growing, need the business and truely appreciate it... my advice to anyone would be to check out your local market and support them. You never know what's out there. You can come across some really nice people building great products.

[@LucasLeCompteMusic]

I made a video on Jeff talking about all the stuff he has done over the years. I used to be on the email list, never talked bad about kiesel on Facebook or Instagram and I was banned from both. I am not banned from the Facebook groups through, only the kiesel page. You did the right thing because getting rid of the two jack system is extremely stupid. Keep in mind i have owned 3 Carvins and ordered two right before the name change.

[@Alienadin]

What did you talk about? I am curious. Thanks, mate.

[@LucasLeCompteMusic]

@@Alienadin How Kiesel constantly ships outs guitars to customers with the wrong specs. Customers will get guitars without things they ordered. Jeff has let kiesel edition guitars that cost like 6k leave his shop with defects and then refuse to fix it when called out on it. Kiesel also used parts from a customers guitar for a NAMM guitar. They also didnt dry their wood out enough and a Beatle came out of the guitar body.

[@solarismoon3046]

@@LucasLeCompteMusic A "Beatle"came out of the guitar body? Was it Paul or Ringo? There are only two of them left now that George and John are dead. I think you mean BEETLE - the bug not the music group.

[@LucasLeCompteMusic]

@@solarismoon3046 It was Ringo who came out of the guitar body. First thing he said when he came out was "Oi"

[@bobbyarthur-yf3yf]

@@solarismoon3046haha they would be so lucky to get a beatle out of their guitar …

[@midwaymonster30]

You just saved me from making a mistake. Ty.

[@RussInCanada]

I saw a comment thread once from a Kiesel owner (6 or 8 of them), who contacted them to inform them that the custom order that he had built with a roasted maple neck just looked like a regular maple neck, and Jeff basically said "Gee, that's too bad. Better luck next time".

[@Alienadin]

Yeah, that one was well-covered.

[@LucasLeCompteMusic]

ahhhh Roasted Maple Gate, I remember that lol

[@user-te3qq1rb7u]

Except what really happened was far worse than that. Jeff went out of his way to blast the guy on an Instagram live stream basically calling the guy a cry baby. Jeff Kiesel is a loser.

[@RussInCanada]

@@user-te3qq1rb7u Yeah, it was a while ago, and I forgot how bad it really went.

[@JoeyRapps1]

@@user-te3qq1rb7u the video of him looking severely less cocky after Daddy yelled at him for that one is PRICELESS

[@garysanders3193]

Jeff doesn't take criticism very well. I have reached out a few times to get something custom made, and without any reason was told no, we can't do that. My response was, aren't you a custom shop? So anytime I think of buying one, I go to Reverb and see how many are being sold used, and that makes me think, do I really want one of these? Then I look at my collection and tell myself, no.

[@rocnroll1715]

Getting banned over asking questions of a product, that you are a return buyer of, and spending multiple thousands of dollars is very telling i have to say.

[@fiddlix]

You are totally in the right bro. Let your cash do the talking. Kiesel has a screwy business model imho.

[@grayson84111]

They have had the same business model for over 40 years…

[@deejay7339]

If you're spending 3k-5k for a guitar you're not spending for a better sounding guitar lol

[@SrChalice]

Then what are you paying for. Enlighten us please.

[@deejay7339]

​@@SrChalice expensive wood and finish.. sound comes from the electronics my dude.

[@deejay7339]

@@SrChalice expensive wood and finish.. sound comes from the electronics my dude.

[@drkaplin98]

I have 4 Carvin guitars and they are all excellent. Way more quality than the price paid. I bought a used Carvin AE185 and the electronics were faulty. I contacted Keisel and sent it back to them to get it fixed. I was dreading the bill, but they charged me $50 for replacing the whole set of electronics and then paid the shipping back! That was incredible customer service on an old Carvin guitar way past the warranty. I have nothing but great experiences with this company.

[@bestregardsband6912]

I bought a Kiesel CS3 earlier this year. After two weeks - the volume started dropping when I would use the pup selector. Sometimes completely dropping out. I had it replaced with a switch craft. Works fine now. Then I broke two different strings in about a two week period. I only use NYXL's. I replaced the saddles with String Savers. I have not broken a string since. I have also owned many PRS's over the years and have never had these kind of issues - even with an SE that I've had for several years now.

[@PatDeJongeSoundwise]

What Kiesel need to understand (and I doubt if they ever will) is: the customer is always right, even when he's wrong. Jeff's ego issues are staining the Kiesel image. Anyone noticed that he's always speaking in the first person? 'Call my guys'...as if he owns them. It's never 'we'. That's a marketing 101 beginners mistake.

[@Alienadin]

Yeah, I am pretty sure he is a classic narcissist, so he is never going to change.

[@TheSweezer]

The customer is not always right. The RIGHT customer is always right ..

[@Danger0use]

Even if Alienadin was treated unfairly. That's still a silly version of the quote. The quote I typically follow is "The customer is always right in matters of taste."

[@PatDeJongeSoundwise]

@@Danger0use I don't want to sound like Jordan Peterson, but the quote is actually designed to counter the thought process you offer. In your version there is someone judging the 'taste'...that someone would be you. So if the customer was acting out of your 'taste' -zone, you would consider him being wrong. And that is exactly what the quote is for: even if you think (according to your taste) the he is wrong, you should still consider him being right. And respond to him accordingly. It's difficult, and I'm sure it's impossible for some people; But that is the true meaning of being customer focused.

[@bluematrix5001]

well, he is good at Marketing..... but he is full of Ego

[@davidmultimedia2024]

I had a custom build saved in my account, waiting to be made. I just changed my mind. 🚪🔑

[@t3hgir]

literally go to a local store or chain like Music-go-round and spend 2 hours trying used guitars until you find one that vibes :)

[@withinthrall1445]

I remember a few years ago Jeff going off on a live stream because someone complained about a roasted maple neck he had gotten. Like I get things like that are frustrating, but the neck looked like they roasted it for 10 seconds. Compared to your average roasted maple, it was unacceptable, especially for a custom shop guitar. The guy he went off on had owned several keisels and carvins. It’s very disappointing to see Jeff hasn’t changed much. It turned me off towards the brand.

[@Alienadin]

I think that's the story KDH covered, and eventually got the customer what he wanted, and Jeff to apologise.

[@Phrygian12]

Yeah, I remember seeing that post. I have a Carvin 7 string. One of my favorites! I got a Vader7 and the guitar feels great. But I remember seeing that Facebook post about the roasted maple. Wood can be unpredictable so I understand Jeff’s argument there. But the guy paid for roasted maple, and yes it was “technically” roasted. But that’s not what the customer wanted. I found it crazy he did a live stream and basically told the guy you get what you get. With their prices going up and up. Hell yeah we’re gonna be picky. Personally it wouldn’t bother me if it was just a production model under 1k. But when you’re talking about 2k guitar and to someone’s specs? I don’t know, that’s not a good way to handle your customer by blasting them on a live stream.

[@kawasaki2024]

I remember this! Jeff was a real dick to the guy!

[@AD1978leo]

I know the exact video you are talking about. In fact, I made a comment about it. I've been turned off by them since.

[@AD1978leo]

​@@Alienadinthat was forced and not sincere. I'll never buy one of his guitars.

[@scytaleghola5969]

The thing about bad customer service is, it's not that one guy you piss off that is a big deal... It's everyone he talks to and everyone they talk to... A very positive customer experience may win you 3 customers. A very bad one will lose you 10... and it is very, very, very expensive to win them back.

[@greekfreak1980]

That sounds like the usual ''Jeff doesn't like a specific feature, so we don't offer it, even if you're willing to pay extra''-nonsense. For example, Jeff doesn't like Floyd Rose bridges. So he basically discontinued them from half a dozen models that used to have the OFR option ( like the CT6 models) and completely from the 7-string models. "Why no 7-string OFR?'' ''Because we used the Korean 1000 Series and that's a cheapo product...'' ( which is BS but I digress..) ''Why don't you just get the German 7-string OFR then?'' ''Because, it doesn't fit with our string spacing..." ''Why the hell, don't you use the standard string spacing for 7-string OFR's then, like ESP does on their Japanese production models?'' ''Because that's why... oh and the Kiesel Contour trem system is waaay better than an OFR in the first place...." ''You mean the HIPSHOT Contour trem and no, it's not ''better''. If I want to do more extreme whammy bar stuff ala Dimebag or Steve Vai, I need a recessed locking nut trem." '' Trust me bro, the Kiesel Contour is better. End of discussion.'' Btw. if some famous endorsed artist would asked them to bring back the dual output jack, Jeff would do it in a heartbeat. That's why I buy only 2nd hand Carvin/ Kiesels.

[@ericwalters5382]

Thank-you Sir. I'll be buying a Suhr instead!

[@greekfreak1980]

@@ericwalters5382 Their guitars are pretty good, but their policies are beyond stupid. Another example: people were asking for the Fernandes Sustainiac system as an Option for years. Like Phil Collen from Def Leppard or Synyster Gates from A7x have on their Jackson/Schecter models. Jeff was always: "Nah, this system is too much of a hassle to build into the guitars and its prone to malfunction,yada yada... " Then they signed Sophie Lloyd as an endorsed artist, she asked for a Sustainiac on her guitar, of course they build her a guitar with one. People saw it and asked also for this option. They made the Sustainiac available but only on Sophie's Artist model, you can't get it on a different Kiesel model. Why? Because that's why.

[@Studio8FX]

I've never personally had an issue with Kiesel, but we have heard about instances with Jeff being very particular and hard headed. I've heard of others who will not buy Kiesel because of Jeff. A shame really. Banning without warning is quite childish and unfair. I'm sorry it happened to you.

[@Alienadin]

Thanks, mate.

[@kawasaki2024]

I won't buy a Kiesel due to Jeff and how he treats customers with issues like shit. They won't get a penny from me ever! His fame and fortune has gone to his head. Sad.

[@ymelfilm]

Pricks can be good luthiers or wine makers or whatever. But I would go with fellas who are nice human beings as well. The competition is big. I believe that the human factor makes sense.

[@JimDewdGuitars]

I'm really sorry you had a bad experience with them. I've got 14 of them since 2019 and all have went great and they were great to work with. Although I didn't have any issues thankfully. I did need a new 5 way switch which they overnighted to me at no charge cuz it was under Warranty. Jeff has always been really great to me but I have heard it's not always the case for everyone so I'm truly sorry you had such a bad experience.

[@Alienadin]

I am glad everything has been smooth sailing for you. Thanks, mate.

[@kma6881]

14?! I hope you’ve figured out a way to make those expenses tax write offs.

[@Scott__C]

Probably because you spent a lot in just a couple of years. I think Jeff doesn't want to hear form people who have Carvin branded guitars.

[@cardbored_]

So he sent you a switch to rewire yourself? Sure hope that wasn’t for a new guitar.

[@williamdistasio9358]

Yeah but bro why would you still deal with a man that picks and chooses who he's going to treat like shit a customer is a customer is a customer, fucking period.

[@garylostinspace8500]

Unreal that they blew up over such a trivial matter, there are so many amazing Luthiers with their own CNC router set up in personal shops makes me wonder why there was such a foolish reaction from them. I was considering contacting Kiesel over a custom build, but thanks to your video I'm reconsidering. Thanks for sharing your experience.

[@Alienadin]

Indeed. Thx, bro.

[@omen3766]

I think you might want to check other opinions on Kiesel and not just take one clearly unpleasant situation as the truth on this. This did happened a while ago if memory serves. It blew up for a reason...mostly because...well the way the internet can be,

[@SackamanjaroX]

I definitely 2nd that you should still consider buying one, insanely good guitars and you shouldn't take too much stock in how a company moderates their social media imo. They're a big company, they make thousands of custom guitars every year so it really doesn't surprise me that they would ban someone who's exceptionally vocal about something, that's just how moderation works tbh. And like seriously you cannot buy a guitar this well made for the price they have a decent advantage over anyone that sells through retailers and they've been doing this for a long time and have the scaling and overall pipeline to beat out other custom shops. Unfortunately this comes with things like losing double output, which can obviously be a deal breaker for some.

[@gorgami29]

@@KevinDean-qx5jt same honestly. I think they create awesome guitars and have a lot of options, but I would rather go for Balaguer if I grab a custom model. I think a lot of Kiesel's models (minus standard strats and teles) are pretty ugly. I think there are better people out there to support other than them. Also, TW Smith makes some bomb ass custom guitars that are exceptionally well crafted.

[@jeleopard]

Jeff Kiesel is very much "my way or the highway". Any protest to his ideas, any propositions, any critique gets him fuming. He's insanely stubborn and I have a very hard time getting behind him.

[@harveycan5820]

Sounds like a narcissistic disorder given all the comments here. There's passion, then obsession, then narcissism, then maybe goes into some form of paranoid persecution. IDK, guitars should be fun. I'm thinking of how Leo Fender used to solicit feedback from players. That seemed to work out OK. Kiesel does make some beautiful guitars, though not my style. If I had 4 grand to spend on a guitar there's about 150 others I consider first.

[@flyonwall360]

When I was a kid in high school, 78-83, I would go through the Carvin catalog with a fine tooth comb dreaming about what guitar I would order when I was financially able. In 1985 I was able to order a DC100. Shortly after that, I ordered the components to convert the guitar to a DC150. A few years later, I wanted to buy the semi hollow body 12 string that Roy Clark was playing in the Carvin catalog. Carvin said that it wasn't available. So, I bought a Hamer Chaparral Custom. It's a shame that Hamer is gone. Carvin was once a great guitar company, but they became Kiesel and lost touch with what the average guitar wants. Kiesel is no longer an affordable option for many, and their customer service stinks. Fortunately, Kiesel is not the only guitar manufacturer in the game.

[@Scott__C]

Yeah, it's kind of funny, that their whole thing was they were saving you so much money by being direct, but that's not really the case anymore. Almost anything from the default choices on their website gets an uncharge.

[@KHGuitarFreak1988]

Wow. A Hamer Chaparral Custom. Great choice

[@vishyoutubevideos]

When I moved to San Diego back in 2000, the Carvin happened to be located right down the street from my apartment. I didn't know much about the brand other than seeing the name in magazines etc. Regardless, I was excited to have a guitar factory and shop in neighborhood. When I finally went in there one Saturday, I remember being sorely disappointed. The staff was cold and unwelcoming and the shop itself was pretty unimpressive. One and done.

[@nubfishin9152]

Doesn't make sense. Its a custom guitar shop. Offer the dual output option and calculate a price that makes it worth while to implement.

[@patrickethington16]

Unfortunately I'm not surprised by this story. I play Carvin guitars but I won't buy a Kiesel. When they announced the change of name (from Carvin), I commented on their KZbin channel that it was unwise to give up 50 years of brand name equity. They stated that I "obviously didn't watch the video" and that the Carvin name was sticking around. I thought it was a strange response/attitude to a long term loyal customer who was making a suggestion. It seems they got rid of the Carvin name. It's their company and their name but I don't have to buy from them. Music Man and PRS are producing some top notch stuff. I'm flexible.

[@TheBfutgreg]

I got a custom "Kiesel" guitar the last year they were still naming them "Carvin" apparently, got lucky I guess? Was about early 2015

[@jeffdobson2909]

You do know that Kiesel is Carvin right? Leo Kiesel founded Carvin, but due to legal issues could not name the company Kiesel, so he named it Carvin. Now many years later, assuming no legal issues with the brand name, they were able to change it to the original intended name Kiesel. It's one in the same! Yep, PRS, or Music Man are great options if you have the $$.......

[@michaelconners9624]

I have several of both and can confidently say Kiesel's are 4-5x higher quality than a PRS. PRS makes nice guitars but they are grossly overpriced for the quality. @@jeffdobson2909

[@ShpongleSquirrel]

It's not the nicest response, but it is apparent you didn't watch the video. Carvin wanted to stop making guitars, so Mark Kiesel (who ran the guitar department) started Kiesel as a new company with his son Jeff. Carvin still exists, but only makes audio equipment.

[@patrickethington16]

I did watch the video, and both you and Kiesel missed my point, so I guess I didn't articulate it adequately. The Carvin name is now completely off guitars. I think this is unwise as very few know who Kiesel is, and there is a long history with the Carvin name (both guitar and audio) Giving up 50 years of brand name equity is as stupid as their snooty response. Carvin Audio is a pathetic shadow of the former company that used to have artists like Steve Vai, Steve Morse etc. endorsing their awesome line of amps, power amps, mixing boards, PA speakers etc. That's ok, I'm totally happy with Music Man. @@ShpongleSquirrel

[@user-te3qq1rb7u]

I had a Vader built and when it finally arrived, the stain color on the neck was no where close to any sample on their website or any example of that stain shown on any built guitar anywhere else. I contacted them and politely voiced my concern to which they essentially replied “that’s impossible because Jeff does these by hand and there’s no way it could be off”. They didn’t even ask for any pictures to see what I was talking about. I sold the guitar and will never buy another from them again. Also I think they’re priced themselves out of the market in the last few years. Their pricing has increased dramatically and no long find them to be much of a bargain. I couldn’t bring myself to play one with confidence at this point even if you gave me one. They’re solid build quality but they have the allure of a KZbin manchild cringelord guitarist.

[@Scott__C]

Yeah, the whole we're saving you because we sell direct has gone away. If he sold in stores, I think he'd price stuff at like $8k.

[@2o3ief]

Say what you will about the man, but I really don't see the pricing/value argument at all. At base they're around $1500 bucks. Anything else American made is starting at $2000 and those guitars benefit more from economies of scale and our of less general build quality. Then you factor QS necks, which I don't think anyone else uses beside like Fender Custom Shop ($3500+), the quality of the finishes, etc. Then you factor in that it is custom, you can get whatever you want, and you can work directly with a dedicated salesperson who plays guitar. You don't get any of that with an American Fender and it cost more. If you're going to build your absolute dream guitar--yes, they're a custom shop, but they're not a bespoke/artisanal builder--and if you're building something with lots of unique finishes that has to be perfect or else you won't want it you should hire one of those people who will take pictures and get feedback throughout and charge you $6000+ Again, I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but I just don't see the value argument at all--unless people go into it expecting a $6000 guitar for $1500

[@user-te3qq1rb7u]

@@2o3ief Yeah that’s fair enough. They are still a good value if you get a pretty basic build and stay around that entry price point, I will concede that. I think when you start going for nicer woods and finishes (well before you get into super exotic stuff) the pricing becomes exponentially less competitive. You start getting into Suhr, Tom Anderson, etc territory. I think Kiesels generally have very good build quality but they’re not at that level IMO.

[@Scott__C]

@@user-te3qq1rb7u Exactly.

[@WayneCribb]

I just built 2 guitars on their website. After hearing this I won't be going forward with my plan to purchase this builders product. Thanks for sharing this information.

[@bryanpatton9839]

Good to know! I personally haven’t seen a kiesel guitar. Totally can understand your frustration with the company. I personally wouldn’t deal with a supplier who deals with customers in such a manner.

[@DrMurdercock]

What about the customer who paid for a roasted maple neck and fret board, got a roast neck, non roasted fretboard with a mis-matched headstock, already owned 20 Carvins and 9 Kiesels, Jeff publicly humiliated him and didn't apologize until KDH called it out in a video.

[@Alienadin]

I know. He is such a lovely chap. LOL

[@jdc6681]

Aaaaand....I'm one more person who was just about to pull the trigger on a Kiesel but after doing a bit of due diligence on Kiesel's leadership and way of doing business has chosen otherwise. Thanks for posting this vid.

[@JD-vj4go]

Thank you for this video. If that's the 'thin' neck profile I don't think I'll go through with my Kiesel build. Looks very chunky.

[@Alienadin]

It's certainly a far cry from a Super Wizard Ibanez neck, but still comfy, although I prefer their thinner neck option. I should learn how to measure it to finally have proof that it's chunkier than the other one.

[@elevenAD]

Its thin but not wizard thin, Kiesel can only go so thin because they have the 2 carbon fiber rods in the necks.

[@tsmerk]

A guitar can only get better when the builder listens to the players. I own a Carvin (before the split) and I like it, but based on your ecperience, I won't be buying any more. Well said!

[@Alienadin]

That's great. Congrats.

[@palehorsenameddeath7731]

So if some tells you something is good then you will buy it. How about thinking for yourself. You just said you have had good experiences with carvin.

[@Scott__C]

@@palehorsenameddeath7731 Why buy something that it's going to be a concern about when there are so many others who welcome their customers.

[@ShpongleSquirrel]

Jeff isn't my favorite person either, but this video is funny to me. This ban apparently happened years ago and you're making a video on it now? They also still offer dual output jacks with piezo.

[@Alienadin]

Which makes it even worse. It means I was right all along.

[@ShpongleSquirrel]

With the nature of doing unscripted weekly lives, he ultimately says some things off the cuff that don't always come to fruition. It's crazy to me you're making a video about it apparently 4 years after the fact.@@Alienadin

[@Manik530]

It’s a good laugh, but his attitude on the original message is what did it for me.

[@wsc3guitarfreak]

Jeff Turned Carvin into a “headless shitshow”. It was unfair to you. You being banned. I have owned many Carvin guitars and was excited about them from the first DC 100. I had a DC150, DC 135 koa and more. I was contemplating another SH550. But the company turned into “Jeff Kiesel Tinker time”. I’m with you. I will never associate the great CARVIN guitars I’ve owned with the disappointment the company has become. Sincerely, William

[@OFFICIALSirensCry]

I thoughts about buying a Kiesel Guitar dor my 40th birthday. I heart about their bad handling of customers as well as some builds not being up to Standard and people paying for something they dis not get in the end. Thus I decided to invest my money in a german Company and ordered from Siggi Braun. They were so nice and friendly. Siggi, the owner took time and we hat a phone call which lasted 2 hours where qe just got to know each other so he could determine what I like, what music I was going to play, which artists inspired me and so forth. It goes without saying that the guutarvthat arrived 6 months later was a piece of art, not just an instrument. So if you are in the market for another custom shop guitar, definitely check out Siggi Brown, fine young guitars. Merry Christmas to you all! 🎄 🎉

[@kebotrans]

I cannot stand him. I owned 6 Kiesels. Never again. The Guitar World deserves better. He banned me also.

[@Alienadin]

Did you sell them? Why were you banned?

[@kebotrans]

@@Alienadin I was banned because I questioned something about my order. Similar situation to you.

[@Adam_Pagan]

Where did you get those glass case wall hangers? They are sick

[@Alienadin]

They are made by Fender.

[@Douglas_I]

Jeff is singlehandedly destroying Kiesel's name. Ironically, it is his own name, but that doesn't seem to matter to him. His temper controls his decision-making, and that's a terrible way to run a company. If I were you, I'd sell my Kiesels and never mention the name in videos ever again. Share your story in other ways, but don't give them the attention of a video.

[@voronOsphere]

This video isn't helping Kiesel at all.

[@Douglas_I]

@@voronOsphere true so maybe not singlehandedly. But at the same time, had Jeff not decided to ban him this video wouldn't have been have.

[@DarkCrow02]

I just bought a kiesel with an accoustic saddle on April, and it arrived last month. I'm happy with my purchase and also very happy to say that they didn't follow through with the decision to move away from the dual output to a single output as my guitar has both the combined and the secondary output.

[@Alienadin]

@@DarkCrow02 That's great to hear. Perhaps the backlash had something to do with it? I hope so. Enjoy. It's an awesome feature. 🥳

[@mikenelson7567]

I'd been a life long Carvin fanatic. I bought a Carvin amp in 1975 when I was in high school and we moved the country side with the volume that thing could produce. It came with their catalog and I dreamed of a day I'd own one of their guitars. This spring, I traveled 1100 miles to their neck of the woods for a vacation and drove up to visit. The receptionist was nice, but firm to their policy that nobody gets inside without an appointment. My bad for thinking that a showroom meant a showroom. After nearly 50 years and a cross country journey, all I got shown was the door. I WAS ready to drop change on a Kiesel guitar, but swore that day to not waste a dime on one.

[@martymcpeak4748]

Underrated amps for sure, I bought a Nomad 50 head that I still use.

[@terrygoss]

Companies - no matter the size or tenure - should always be open to discussion with their customers, and kudos to the ones that are willing to do so in public forums. It shows a real dedication to not only the customers but also their own product. It's so weird how the pedal community is so open (mostly) and shares everything with everyone, but the guitar community is still weird about it.

[@JackieMcGruffster]

After your previous video from last June, it's good to see that you're (as Johnny Winter used to sing) "Still alive and well."

[@Alienadin]

Thanks, mate. Just been busy making my 2nd album and work.

[@user-pl7lr5dn8q]

what guitar is rhat in the top left? love the finish

[@Alienadin]

That's a Schecter Sun Valley Super Shredder FR-S in Green Reign. Yes, that finish is awesome, and each one is unique.

[@agdtec]

I understand your passion about the dual output. The ban is so BS if a quality guitar can't stand up to criticism. There are so many quality custom builders who do not have such egos.

[@Alienadin]

Thanks a lot, mate. I appreciate your comment, and I obviously think so too.

[@MainPrism]

This is why I stick with PRS

[@TechnoRiff]

@@MainPrism I'm waiting for Mr. PRS to finally embrace stainless steel frets. Otherwise, I think his guitars are great.

[@raytorvalds3699]

@@TechnoRiffI hope you have a lot of patience then ;)

[@TechnoRiff]

@@raytorvalds3699 - Yeah, not holding my breath! :)

[@mechanicjamz]

Sorry to hear bout your bad experience with kiesel i remember i had an issue with my build sent it back and they took care of it with no issues. But this was before they had the vitual builder

[@Alienadin]

Thanks, and I think it's great that they took care of it for you. That's terrific.

[@TheMelodyofChaos]

Yeah for what I've seen kiesel is the only custom shop that gives you a normal guitar shop treatment, no custom experience beyond the builder, that means you don't choose your top or fretboard, you don't have comunication with the person to see how the process of your build is going on, you can't do custom inlays, so it is most a semi custom shop running by a guy with a big ego, I saw the other day in his lives that he is going to charge 25 bucks if you want a custom tuning and he said that it was going to charge that at the begining but hisbson was thinking about 50 bucks for you to choose your tuning, that is insane to be honest, I think it is the first time that I have seen a "custom" shop doing that, to be honest it feels more like a guitar center shop or something like that...

[@Alienadin]

Yes, that's true. Although, there were live feeds where you could choose your own tops, etc.. I don't know about these days.

[@GreenMeanie101]

You can't even get different size NUT Widths? What kind of Custom shop is a one NUT width fits all?

[@Nerotique]

I asked for the Kiesel logo to be stenciled on a different part of a custom headless bass. They pretty much accused me of trying to do something nefarious and trying to steal their work. WTF? I just asked, it was a preference. I will never deal with these clowns.

[@subrajmatharu5847]

The dual AC output in now available on the virtual builder. I have the feature on my Aries 6. It is excellent and greatly improves the existing sound when you plug it into an acoustic amp too. I think Kiesel heard your feedback and sorted this out. The acoustic output and saddles costs around $200 to add to your build.

[@mikejacques6516]

Lots of other great guitar manufacturers that would love to hear from you....😉

[@koenstrobbe8101]

I bought my first Carvin guitar in the 90s, a DC400 anniversary model. After that I got 3 more, a Bolt, a Vader, and the Allan Holdsworth model. All guitars are lefties and are well made. I do have issues with the company in recent years. I emailed them a couple years back because I had an issue with the electronics in my DC400. The reply I received was "we dont have that anymore", which I can accept but at least suggest some possible fixes or alternatives. Quality Control. The Holdsworth guitar was wired righty, so the tone knob functions more like a on/off switch. Before sending out a gutar, it should be plugged in and the controls should be checked to work properly. I know how to solder up guitars, but at that price range, its a bit of a pain to have to fix mistakes. Pricing. They jacked up the prices substantially, especially for "options". The base list price is a little deceiving - by the time you put similar options, you are not a lot below Suhr/Anderson guitars. They advertise themself as a custom guitar company, but in reality they are closer to mass production. They do make quality guitars though, but I will not be buying one anymore either. I would pay more and get a Anderson - the customer experience and support is night and day really.

[@pdbordelon]

What a shame. The worse part is a passionate Kiesel customer will never quite feel the same way about the brand for simply critiquing a friggin jack out put. Ridiculous! I have 3 Carvins and they were all exceptional with great customer service.

[@AbComp870]

Thanks for speaking up about this.

[@TechnoRiff]

@Alienadin Man, that really sucks! I'd be really bummed at first and then angrier over time as the ban sunk in. Assuming that you were civil interacting with JeffK prior, his reaction seems quite exaggerated. I've only had one experience buying a Kiesel guitar, and to be fair, I had to send it back twice due to some issues. The guitar looks and plays like a dream now, and my sales rep was totally supportive and above board during the entire process. I think the danger is that the company seems to be run by a dictatorship that the rest of the company can't stand up to regardless of their views. I agree with you that anyone going the extra mile to spec a piezo system should deserve separate outputs like most companies would do for similar configurations.

[@Alienadin]

Completely agree with you. It's highly unfortunate.

[@shanewalton8888]

The green Sustainiac is cooler. Is that a Schecter?

[@Alienadin]

@@shanewalton8888 Yes, it is.

[@Crowhmmmm]

Sun valley super shredder

[@shanewalton8888]

@@Crowhmmmm I got one of those in birch green.

[@truescotsman4103]

I got into gear a while back. Being a musician isn't about gear. It's about being an artist. If you're a guitar build artist okay then. I have guitars for playing not looking at or expecting more of the finish or figuring in the wood. Nothing is ever going to be good enough if only the absolute best will do. The first problem is buying a guitar custom made that you can't play or look at before it's finished. Second problem is you have an idea in your head and reality will never meet that idea head-on. I have a Carvin S Kit that I built myself. I knew Jeff from when he was a teenager working in the lobby of the Carvin retail store in San Diego. I purchased a neck from him back in the early 90s. fast forward 15 years I decided to finally get that Carvin kit I always wanted. When I received the neck it was a little irregular. It was birdseye maple fingerboard but it had a big brown spot on the 1st fret so the aesthetic was ruined so my neck was basically a reject from the custom shop. I decided not to complain about the brown spot and went ahead with the build. I began assembling the neck and the Floyd nut didn't fit. I decided to file a little and fixed the problem. then when I was mounting the tuners I discovered the headstock was much thinner than the tuners would allow. The tuner nut that goes around the peg had a certain depth it has to be so it will tighten up correctly. The nut would bottom out and you couldn't tighten up the tuners all the way. I was pretty disappointed at this point and decided to call Kiesel. Initially I got the guy in the shop that built the neck. He was a total dick and really didn't do customer service just dick. I ended up on the phone with Jeff. He was kind of friendly at first but he was all business. He wanted to make what little margin on this guitar he wasn't going to fix anything. He ripped me of and he was done. I sent the neck back and they started all over with me. They said I sanded the headstock which I never did I filed the nut a tiny bit and they didn't say anything about it. So the guy in the shop fixes the headstock by putting a veneer on it to correct the thickness. He calls me up and he wants to charge me $100 to fix the neck because they say I sanded it. I tell him I'm not paying for his fuckup and whithout telling me he was gong to "fix" it and charge me. So he sanded the veneer of and he sent the neck back exactly as it was. I sanded down the tuners and fixed the issue. It's one of my favorite guitars and sounds amazing. It stays in tune better than anything else I have. After that experience I'll never buy another Kiesel/Carvin.

[@Alienadin]

Wow! What a nightmare! I would have been so pissed. Glad you enjoy it though.

[@davidbreuer6449]

The issue with Kiesel now is that their prices are basically comparable to other custom shops, so their whole marketing strategy of “Custom shop guitars for a fraction of the price” doesn’t hold as much weight. Now, plenty of builders have caught up with them who don’t have nearly as tarnished of a public image. I purchased an Aries 7 back in 2016, for roughly 1700 said and done. It’s a great guitar, I love it, and I’ll probably never sell it. But it wasn’t perfect from the factory. Wiring was super messy, with tones of bare wires. There was glue on the fretboard. And still to this day, it has the most fret sprout out of any of my guitars, including the cheap imports. At the price I got it at these issues are inexcusable, especially since the same build would be over 1000 more today. Especially for a company touting their made-in-USA quality. Not to mention the quality of builds can differ greatly, something I’ve noticed when visiting their NAMM booth over the years. I’m sorry you had these issues with the customer support. Plenty of Kiesel fans will come to their defense saying they’ve received perfect guitars with excellent customer service, and I don’t doubt that. I also don’t doubt the people who’ve had differing experiences. It’s subjective to say whether their instruments are “worth it”, as we can rationalize either way. But id rather put my time and money towards a builder that I will be 110% positive will deliver a flawless product with excellent customer service.

[@CarrigansGuitarClub]

Great video, people in the wider guitar community, have to know the truth!

[@axe2Mummy]

This video is hard to swallow as someone who ownsa lot of Carvin /Kiesel products. When a customer can’t criticize a product in an open forum the forum is not open at all. Free speech is mandatory and knowing this would weigh heavily on my decision as whether or not to support the company in the future. Jeff Kiesel a dick plain n simple

[@tedwilliams1918]

As a counterpoint, I recently purchased my 1st Kiesel headless and truly love it. It's an exceptional instrument. They even delivered it in about 1/2 the stated build time. Jeff can rub people the wrong way but I would also say there are 2 sides to every story. Without seeing what was written in the owners group, it's hard to have an informed opinion about whether Kiesel was too sensitive or whether the customer was excessive. If the customer was truly just stating his opinion and recommending that Kiesel re-consider their decision, then yes it's a bad look for them to ban the customer. This is all to say that my one experience with their sales person, and my 1 experience with their product has been very positive. Your mileage may vary.

[@yayayaokoksure]

Agreed. This dude should've posted his actual comments for clarity.

[@drad8266]

I’ve asked Jeff questions and got solid answers, not always what I wanted but he was up front. Never banned. Agreed, without seeing what this Dude said who knows.

[@the_armada5579]

Iv met Jeff kiesel and flock, and my build was amazing and they were phenomenal with customer service. Jeff was super nice in person and it's sad to see these horror stories

[@JTB--]

Didn't see his comments... but it's definitely an asinine decision by Kiesel to change the 2 outputs on the Piezo guitars to 1

[@Alienadin]

Unfortunately, there is no way for me to do that, since I am banned, so no access. I have shared my DM to Jeff mulitiple times in the comments though.@@yayayaokoksure

[@timmoran6280]

Ive played carvin guitars since 2006. And had 4 custom builds. All of which I was happy with except for the last one. It was a CT624 with a black limba body and a maple walnut 5 piece neck and a floyd. The thing just felt dead. It played great. But I was not happy with the guitar as the finish was delaminating from the holes drilled into the body for the trem cover. And it was spreading. So it got sent back. And their fix was to countersink the holes and remove the area where it was delaminating. And after that I was soured on the brand for a while. And I had many carvins besides the ones I ordered. And while I sold all my carvins evenutally, I did miss a few. And while i know Jeff has had issues with customers in the past. I may have even had an exchange with him that wasnt to my liking but I dont remember him being rude. I would say he was just blunt and honest. And over the years I really thought about it. And I came to the realization that I was only looking at it from my own perspective. Yes these are build to order instruments. But its not a get whatever you want the way you want it. Like you cant get a custom shape like you can with many one off custom builders. And even though Jeff has had his moments he has admitted this. And in many cases he has tried to atone for that and just admitting that he has struggled with this I think is a lot. I dont own a guitar company. And I dont build guitars. But I have tried with a carvin neck blank and let me tell you. Even with my woodworking experience its a damn hard thing to do. And when dealing with natural resources you will always get variations and opinions will differ on what is or isnt acceptable. You know Jeff has been saying on the lives that certain options may get discontinued and he explains why. And some may not like it but it make sense when he explains it. The fact these guys give a live stream as much as they do and are as transparent as they are I dont think you see that with any other company. And there really is no other company doing what they do on the level they do it at. And so i decided. Im gonna try a kiesel. And actually kiesel branded instrument. I saw one on the instock. A basic KRG green aries bolt on with reverse pointed headstock and white pickups and it immedietely spoke to me. And its been the best sounding and playing guitar I have ever owned. I could not be happier with my purchase. And while I dont have a large collection I have had many many high end instruments from very well known makers reknowned for their quality. Id be rich If i still had all those guitars. But this aries I got is just phenomenal. And I have to say. I am a flawed man. I have lashed out at people just like Jeff has. But it takes balls to admit when you are wrong for thousands to see. And jeff has done that. And I think he has chilled out a lot. And I regret selling my great guitars that I owned when it was carvin simply because I lost this sense of brand loyalty after one disappointing build. But the owner of that guitar supposedly loves it. So I think the thing to remember is that we are all human. And i dont know how you initially brought it up on the live chat. But if it was in any way like how you stated it here in this video. I would have felt attacked. Because you flat out say its simply stupid and there is no reason to do that. And if that was said publically especially through typed words it can come off more harsh than intended. And you even said you were encouraged to make your voice heard publicly and see if it garners support for your cause. And maybe look at it from their side. If they are doing it? It IS for a reason. And the reason doesnt matter because they wouldnt discontinue an option if it became unprofitable or if they would lose money continuing to do so. And while I understand your desire for that option. I see a lot of guitars on your wall you own that dont have piezo systems. So it sucks and Im sorry this brand chose to not offer a feature you liked the brand for. But as a person who has also seen options he once liked no longer available I have to remember that for every option they stopped offering they added something (like the carbon fiber beams in the necks and luminlay side dots) as standard fare that made a world of difference. And IMHO the craftsmanship and attention to detail is on another level than my previous guitars. So I try to look at it as we win some we lose some. My question to you is. Do you think that maybe if you had just reached out to your sales guy or wrote kiesel privately in the first place that maybe you would have got that answer and things would never have escalated? And as far as the wilkinson trem they always mentioned the model of it. If it didnt say wilkinson/gotoh you are going to be buying a cheaper bridge. But its something that can be swapped if the upgrade is worth it. Its a $120 trem that likely would cost that much as an option. And even in this video you openly admit that your issue with that other guitar besides the bridge was the hum which you admit was a wiring issue or faulty ground of your apartment. So it really becomes irrelevant at that point. But you asked what people thing and what their experience has been. And for me my in stock purchase I am elated with and my other very nice guitars are not the one I reach for. And despite any options not offered today they still are the only company that you can get that much guitar for that little of a price. And I personally think that wood grading is subjective. But if i paid for a master grade birdseye board I would not be disappointed with that. Because its unique. And the knots are intense and vivid. Its not just uniformity to me but how often will I see a board like this with the quality it possesses. Sometimes custom builds dont work out. But thats the nature of these things. I just think that we are all human. And we all make mistakes. And maybe you made some too. And I dont think you are being accountable for that. And I think you are denying your chance to play and own great instruments over what even you admit is a stupid issue. But its obviously important enough to make a video declaring why you are chosing not to play their guitars. Even as you say. Years down the road. Maybe its just time to move on and let it go. Because you may have sold a guitar for them. And you may have bought a few guitars from them. But they dont make a ton of money on these builds. In fact in some cases they lose money by having inventory sit for too long on guitars with options so unique it requires a discount and the right buyer who may never come along to buy it. Now if you got a straight up jacked instrument with a major issue and they gave you the rub and told you to kick rocks? yeah. I would see a reason to want to vent. But the discontinuation of an option? Probably worth a phone call first. JMHO And no offense intended.

[@stevebadachmusic]

I'm really wanting a left-handed headless bass and Kiesel seems to be about the only company that will make one left-handed. But I hear nothing but horror stories like this!

[@Alienadin]

I guess most people don't have problems, and you only hear about those that do, but don't take my word for it. Anything can happen.

[@vacustoms]

Yeah. where there's smoke (multiple complaints) there's fire (the company is going down the tubes)

[@Alienadin]

Yeah, of course.

[@MrChopsticktech]

Have you looked at Steinberger?

[@shredacuda]

Don't listen to this asshat. I have a carvin and two kiesels. One of my kiesels I had a little bit of a wiring issue sent it back and had it taken care of without any issue whatsoever. They make great guitars their customer service is always been great to me. I've compared my guitars with PRS Gibson fender Suhr, you name it. I totally prefer my kiesel.

[@ahaua1]

I recently had a custom Kieslel built and am very happy with the service and guitar. With that said, you are correct! You should have the right, (as a customer), to express your opinion on a public forum, as it will help others make informed decisions on whether or not to purchase a Kiesel guitar. I have only had one built and I am extremely happy with the guitar and thinking of having them build another one. Thanks again for your video!! You should NOT have been banned as long as you were civil in your comments.

[@kvprod1]

I’ve got an Aries from their special 2021 run and it’s the best guitar I own, but i don’t think I’ll ever order another one. My confidence in the brand has collapsed. I’d rather pay more to a luthier or other shop and be guaranteed a flawless guitar

[@Earth_to_Kensho...ComeInKensho]

I'm sorry to hear you were treated this way. I watched a really good factory tour video recently and he seemed genuine in meeting expectations. Maybe you triggered something he was struggling with, maybe it was a knee jerk response like "what was I thinking when I made this decision?" I'm sorry you were treated this way but I was thinking this was a technical issue. I'm shocked he would do this but I haven't been playing long enough and I'll only buy what I expect to recieve from them so I support you but I probably will buy from them eventually. I subbed you for what it's worth

[@hangingdeadguy1]

I had poor experience with kiesel customer service and the guitar. I don’t think they are worth it anymore

[@Alienadin]

Sad to hear it. What happened?

[@hangingdeadguy1]

they sent out a guitar to me with the pickup set right on the strings. when I had called and complained the guitar sounded bad they said to adjust the height of the pickups and roll off the tone. why would they even send it out the door like that? its like gm sending out a truck with four flat tires and telling the customers to air them up. they were extremely rude on the phone and then the charged me for gig bag when I returned the guitar to them in the gig bag. anyway to steal more money from the customer. I have a video on my channel explaining everything and people trying to crucify for it because I don't bow down to Kiesel guitars. @@Alienadin

[@williamdon3442]

Dude, you’re 100 percent right. I hope things are going better for you. Seen Jeff’s behaviour in a video before. Comes across as an arrogant asshole. Always wanted the blue Jason Becker model and the VINNIE VINCENT V guitar I don’t know the exact name of the model it’s like the two v’s. Really nice looking guitar. But thanks for your insight. Highly doubt I’ll ever give him business

[@checkitout611]

I don't think what you did was at all ban worthy. Having 2 outputs for that setup is 100% ideal. Honestly it's his/their loss. Just go and get Warmoth necks and bodies and have your local tech put it all together (or you) and you will get exactly what you want and it will be about what your paying for from Kiesel (minus maybe the wild paint jobs) . It's the route I have been taking and I am getting better guitars than I was getting from Suhr and 2 to 3k cheaper. Going the Warmoth way (or other body/neck companies) is you can then literally outfit the guitar with the EXACT components YOU want vs what they will allow you to pick from their list of options. Lately for me it's been Warmoth or I buy a $700 to $1200 Schecter (really like their products) and put the electronics in it I like and it's been awesome. You don't need Kiesel at all but it's truly very dumb of them to ban you over something like that. I 100% agree that a message asking you to talk direct would of been the best thing to do, at least to start and have a dialog.

[@chadzabloudil2402]

When did they discontinue the dual jack?? I just ordered an Aries the beginning of July with a piezo. I'm nervous now that i just wasted $250.

[@Alienadin]

Someone wrote that they ultimately either brought them back, or never discontinued them anyway, which would be hilarious, but I don't know anything about it myself. I sincerely hope yours will feature the dual output, as it should.

[@chadzabloudil2402]

@@Alienadin Thanks. Prior to ordering, I called and was told that i couldn't get dual jacks on the Vader, but he said nothing about the Aries. I hope you're right!

[@chadzabloudil2402]

@Alienadin by the way, I'm sorry to hear about your experience. As a business owner myself, I cringe at bad customer service stories.

[@necrojoe]

For their headless models, when they launched the piezo option, starting with the Lee McKinney signature, they only ever had the single output. After they rolled it out to a few other headless models, they said they were strongly considering switching the non-headless to that config as well, but (I assume because of the feedback) decided not to. Current non-headless builds still get the dual-outputs.

[@chadzabloudil2402]

@@necrojoe thank you!

[@danalopresto3139]

Thank you for sharing your experience. I believe that any manufacturer that offers “custom products (i.e. guitars)” has a responsibility to listen to the feedback from their customers so that they (manufacturers) can meet their customers needs. The way that your situation was handled is unacceptable, especially considering that you had purchased multiple guitars from Kiesel. I know that Kiesel stating that they would no longer offer the dual output option could be rectified as an aftermarket modification, but isn’t that the point of buying a “custom guitar” in the first place… built to the customer’s needs? I had been considering a Kiesel custom build, but after watching your video, as well as searching for more videos afterwards, I have decided to look for another builder. Thanks again for sharing your experience.

[@sea-tramp]

danalopresto-- I have to agree with you. Ive custom built parts for decades and have always listened to others input, good or bad. Why produce something and not want to hear feedback. Some people dont really care I guess.

[@darthslagle5979]

I agree with you 100% Also, I have to say the Ibanez RG565 in the wall case is awesome. I have one I bought new back in 92. It's one of the best guitars I've ever played. That guitar can pull off almost any tone.

[@MatthewFant]

Unfortunately, Jeff and his immature mentality will end up destroying that company. They went broke before. Probably will again.

[@jfo3000]

That's unfortunate Alien. I saw you on the carvin forum years ago. I have two Carvins and four Kiesels and have been treated fairly in all instances and they even went overboard for me a couple times. All of my builds have been fine. Fretwork on these guitars is exceptional, and that alone makes them stand out above anything else that I have played. But I do empathize with your situation.

[@Alienadin]

Thanks, mate. I appreciate it.

[@jasonsapp792]

Always wanted a Carvin guitar... when it changed over to Kiesel and Jeff's arrogance took over I stopped wanting a Carvin/ Kiesel product... I have followed along on different stories of Jeff going overboard on rants and such and it really is a turn off... wish the company well wish Jeff well ... just don't think I can support the brand by buying something of theirs

[@normanwaller2924]

Dude you are absolutely correct. Because it can only boil down to a matter of expense. And that expense could have been passed on to the consumer if they wanted that feature.

[@Mind_Agent]

I guess they don't care about returning business. There are many custom guitar manufacturers in the world, sounds like you can move on from this and find another that sparks your passion again. And sell the reminders.

[@trixlee5102]

Amusingly, I was just looking at a build with the piezo saddles, and I was looking for a dual output option. Now I know why I didn't see it anywhere. You could obviously grab an A/B switch to send the mono signal where you want, BUT that does mean you have to coordinate an extra step of toggling from magnetic pickups to piezo with the switch on the guitar and hitting the A/B switch to change the output selection.

[@Alienadin]

From what I have heard, they didn't do away with it in the end. I am confused now.

[@trixlee5102]

@@Alienadin Really? Hmm, I didn't see it on a build I made for a Leia, but maybe it's only on certain models?

[@Alienadin]

@@trixlee5102 I don't know. Someone said so on here.

[@BJPriceMusic]

I've been very fortunate to have an amazing experience with them. I have ordered 2 custom basses through them and they turned out perfect. Amazing customer service. I have also bought a few models off of Reverb at stellar quality for an amazing price. Its unfortunate this happened and seemed like a few years ago he def made some business mistakes with how he acted but seems like things have been going much better especially since the roasted maple incident.

[@Alienadin]

I am glad you have had nothing but great experiences with them.

[@kenr.b.891]

What was the roasted maple incident?

[@arosalesmusic]

What do you think of the Ibanez RG J Customs?

[@Alienadin]

Check out my last video for the answer. 😉

[@InstructorGomez]

This is a huge eye opener. Especially that you spent your hard earned money multiple times.

[@Alienadin]

Yeah, regretfully so.

[@VadimRommer]

Although I completely agree that banning a customer who just invested some 6k euros on your gear is unaccaptable, rude, unthinkable even and cocky - up until this point I never knew this kind of setup even existed. If I had such 2 output - I'm not sure I would even know what to do with it, you know? I guess you need to be some big shot guitar player to use this kind of stuff. to me - a simple mono output with my quad cortex is beyond anything I will ever need. Thank you for this video! I was actually starting to play with the guitar builder myself and thinking about kiesel, and this attitude you described coming from the company is to me completely unaccaptable, so this is no longer an option.

[@Alienadin]

Thanks, mate. It's actually very practical and necessary, as one output goes into an actoustic amp/setup, and the other into an electric guitar amp/effects processor. You need to be able to split the signal to get the best sound. I am pretty sure JP's guitar also has it like this. It adds a lot of versatility, which I have employed on my new album.

[@billthompson3833]

I remember carvin guitars and amps in the 80s they made good stuff ,I knew people that owned their stuff.i never have owned anything kiesel or carvin.i have guitars from multiple manufacturers,Jackson,fender,EVH,Kramer,schecter,dean, Ibanez,charvel Gibson,etc.i don't feel like im missing anything. Many many good guitars out there .I don't think I would let it bother me.

[@Skipsounds]

Well on a related note, someone on a guitar forum I have been a member of for decades, came to the same conclusion as you. She gave a special gift for her husband-his dream guitar, which was a Kiesel build. They opened the box together and her anticipation at seeing the look on his face turned to horror. They sent the wrong guitar. Thereupon started a game of 'how much stress can you take', with the shop refusing to send their guitar until the one they sent mistakenly was returned. As far as I know, the situation still has not been resolved.

[@Alienadin]

Oh no! That sounds like an absolute nightmare. So sorry for them. Hope they can get things sorted out.

[@Skipsounds]

@@Alienadin I'm sure they are thankful for that, thanks. A few people pointed out that it wasn't necessarily Keisel's fault, they can't keep up with every single thing that goes on with their guitars after they are distributed.. But that is still pretty outrageous customer treatment, with their name connected to it

[@Brian_Burdette]

@@Skipsoundswrong they self distribute!!

[@RotterStudios]

I almost bought one but their customer service was full of jerk offs! Many other people had the same issues.

[@bartvansliedregt5482]

Streisand effect in play "we don't want you to talk about this publically." So now there is a video with 77k views on the topic. Good video man.

[@Alienadin]

@@bartvansliedregt5482 Thx, mate.

[@vishyoutubevideos]

Kiesel is a cult. I was kicked out years ago. Best you sell those things and move on.

[@robertm9273]

Without all the details, I will keep this short. I purchased a seven string my first and was extremely disappointed after $2200. I could have purchased an Ivan as seven string for less and have better quality.

[@basiltiffani8850]

Yeah, Jeff is very reactionary. It's part of his personality, I think. Watch some of livestreams and you can see it. For that reason alone, I'd never buy a Kiesel. On the bright side, I'm sure Jeff doesn't care.

[@JoeyRapps1]

@@PeaceWatcher-ek7zl meh they become people after getting the options to about $3K+ and by not noticing any QC issues

[@tpeck111]

I bought a Carvin DC125 w/extra pickup at the Hollywood store in late 1988. Paid $535 for it out the door and waited 4 weeks for it to be built. After it arrived at the store for me to pick up, I saw they put a Kahler flip-type locking device on it at the factory. It had a Schaller fixed bridge with no fine tuners. I said " you gotta be kidding with this", and they told me "we'll give you your money back, but you will never be able to purchase a Carvin guitar at the Hollywood store again". I sat in the store playing the guitar for about 10 minutes, and liked it so much, I told them I was gonna keep it. I went to the hardware store and bought these tiny little screwdrivers, and very carefully removed the locking device and truss rod cover. I still have that guitar today, and it's still exactly the same as it was after in '88. The locking device and trussrod cover are still in the plastic bag in the case compartment where I put them 36 years ago. The thing is this: I ended up never buying anything from Carvin again after their little diatribe about banning me from the Hollywood store, and never needed to. I still have my '84 X60 amp and my '88 DC. I would never get rid of them. My message to you is: keep the guitars if you like them. Just never buy anything else from them. Don't blame the guitar for the knuckle-draggers who run the company, and know that they have been miserable people even as far back as 1988.

[@seannicholes]

As a Becker fan it's truly sad to see Carvin go down the toilet like this. Kiesel guitars look nice, and some of my favorite bands play them, such as Arch Spire, but I am non-stop hearing about $3,000 custom shops with fucked-up options or outright mistakes. Then Kiesel tries to deflect and act as though it was the customer's fault. There's all kinds of testimonial about this. I know they are a gigantic Mega conglomerate, but I am really a Charvel Jackson kind of guy. It seems nearly every company is making horrible anti-consumer moves in the past few years.

[@Alienadin]

I didn't even know it was this common. Truly sad.

[@qwasz123123]

I have purchased around 12 Carvin guitars but none since the move to the Kiesel brand. A lot of Jeff's statements just turned me off. He seems like an egotistical person who will treat customers like this before considering his way is not the best. Also, I used to call sales reps and they would talk with me casually about my build ideas. Then it changed for the worse. Like they were instructed to cut calls short if they were not receiving credit card numbers. Customer service used to be their strong point. They were at the top of the hill there. No longer the case.

[@scottabney4579]

You did the right thing. Its sad but you gotta move on . Ive heard stories about that guy and he seems to be one of the biggest asses in the guitar industry. Nothing will change that .

[@Alienadin]

Thank you. Yeah, he is well known for his attitude.

[@bluematrix5001]

what is that blue guitar on the left, is gorgeous, (charvel? Jackson?)

[@chocolatecookie8571]

Ibanez. He made a video about it

[@chasing_dragons]

🚩💔 You said to give you our experience and comments. Thank you for sharing your story with us. The only thing that comes to mind when hearing what happened to you is that this sounds not just unprofessional, almost childlike on the part of Jeff Kiesel. This is truly amazing that there has been what appears to be a full 10 years of incremental public discussion and repeated voicings of disappointment with Kiesel. I still remember back in the very late 80s, one of my classmates in junior high school brought a Carvin brochure to school. I looked at what was like a small magazine on Carvin guitars for what felt like hours. Very impressive craftsmanship and fell in love with the brand and especially with the whole "Custom Options" thing available to the public. Then Warrant came out with the video for "Cherry Pie" and thought Carvin was the hottest thing since sliced bread. I went to the Carvin stores in Hollywood, Santa Ana, and the factory showroom in Escondido several times spread out over 15 years. Up until 2004/2005, when you would go into one of the stores and pull the guitars and basses off the wall, the quality and playability were A Lister like, exceptionally well-made instruments. "I have to have this guitar because it is so good." These were true masterpieces. At some point, though, something changed with the company... and I am NOT trying to be disrespectful to the company or the CEO/Owner Jeff with what I am about to say here. My understanding is Jeff's dad, the guy who really built the company into what we know of it, gave the company or at least the CEO level of authority to his son Jeff. This was the turing point. I can still remember the day when my interest in Carvin died. One of their employees at the Hollywood store said to me ten years ago or so > "Don't bring us any wackky a** ideas for your custom order. Our CNC machines are too difficult to reprogram." That was it. I was done. IMHO, building/maintaining a company and being GIVEN/maintaining a company are light years apart in HOW the A to Z's a company continues... and in ALL aspects. Too much to elaborate on. I will say this though, it is my educated guess that Jeff does not know how to maintain and harmonize the A to Z's of that company the same way his dad did who built it. Personally... and I am not trying to be mean or slander the Carvin/Kiesel brand or Jeff, but it appears tht Jeff has been consistently cutting corners to avoid the mental and physical work involved as well as financial/time aspects involved to constantly have to make efforts to maintain the way it was before. Jeff has been given quite the gift here, and his personality APPEARS to not want to do anything extra required to balance Quality and Quantity. Now quantity APPEARS to have been made the priority, not quality and not quality in every aspect of the business like his dad did... including interactions with the paying customers. When I hear or see Jeff talk, just IMHO, there is this vibe with him that he just does not want to do anything that is not going to rake the cash in. All of this cavalier attitude infects every single aspect of the machine. There are way more grievances with this company and with photos of defects that truly boggle the mind when so many people have paid big dollars for "custom instruments." It sounds like people have to tip toe around this Jeff character and hope to God he is not offended and fixes whatever the problem happens to be with any given order. My prediction is he will eventually sell the company for big dollars and retire early.

[@Pete1980ification]

Well said but stop apologizing for your VALID opinions, those apologies just cheapen what you are saying. You are worthy of an opinion... own it!

[@chasing_dragons]

@@Pete1980ification Hi Pete and thank you for that. You are correct. I do this because here in Los Angeles, everybody is so sensitive and then hold grudges for long periods of time that people are I suspect are conditioned to apologize over and over again so others don't back stab you later. Very difficult to tip toe around this. Thanks for the support though.

[@Pete1980ification]

@@chasing_dragons that sounds exhausting.

[@timothymicheals]

Im shocked by this as I myself was about to go down the rabbit hole of trying guitars from a maker I have no prior experience . I have through the years used Gibson fender Ibanez Strandberg and Vigier.All of them good instruments for the working guitar player but none of them are perfect by a long ways. At the moment Im using an Ibanez rg it intonates perfect has the most playable action of all my guitars and you know what its the most versatile by a long way .. that said I would love a headless guitar again as there are many advantages . And I just want to ad this as it occurred to me today that how many keisels do we see on stages compared to Ibanez ? there is any number of reasons but honestly I think Ibanez have a very deep understanding of what professional guitar players need in basic basic terms ,and I do think the attitude of semi well know manufactures ie: Vigier, Keisel, Strandberg, is more in line with their own personal beliefs as opposed to what is actually important to the guitarist . there you go that's my pennys worth of thought on the subject and going forward im more than likely going to pass on keisel guitars ... their loss not mine . stay playing Timothy :

[@phillipprice1172]

I have heard some things about the way they handle their customers I have been looking at their builds but haven't decided to buy I am a Jackson player, I do think after listening to your comments that they really treated you wrong. It's BS to not listen or even offer the dual jack with custom builds it seems it would be a great money maker for a builder, I hope you find a better builder for your custom stuff I have watched you play VERY NICE ON POINT!!!!! good luck

[@Alienadin]

Thanks a lot, mate. Yeah, I really love Ibanez. Maybe I will get a Suhr Modern someday, if I can ever afford one, or a J.Custom, since I love the Edge/Edge Lo-Pro floating tremolo units. Apparently, Jeff Kiesel causes issues with customers quite frequently from what I have been reading here. It's a shame, as Jason Becker, Greg Howe, Frank Gambale, and other awesome guitarists have signature guitars with them.

[@lambertfooks7358]

Sorry about your experience. I have 2 Carvin SH 475s with 13pin , Piezo and standard outs. My only gripe was the face plate for the output jacks was a hard plastic ( handle with care) they would crack and had them replaced a couple of times. But the guitars play well and look great. I got a Delos dual humbucker last year as my go to guitar plays great to me.

[@Alienadin]

That sounds like a serious design flaw to me. Glad you dig your axes though.

[@x3a3x3]

I’ve ordered 3 kiesels in the past, my favorite guitars. Never had any problems with the orders. With one of them I wanted some options they don’t offer and Chris just said they wouldn’t be able to do it for me. I still got a killer guitar at a great price