Why I Would Not Buy The KP15 Again

[@gooce9870]

watching the lower break was like watching a persons shin break with the bone poking out

[@tiddybopper]

Little jb weld and ur all good😂

[@DyTile]

no amount of steel or hardener fixing that shit @@tiddybopper

[@DriveCarToBar]

@@tiddybopper The KP15s are made with glass reinforced nylon. Its a thermoplastic so you could use a soldering gun to heat it up and put it back together. If you wanted to, you could embed metal wire or strips to add reinforcement.

[@secondarytrollaccount666]

​@@DriveCarToBar why would you do that when you could just invest into a quality rifle?

[@NelsonZAPTM]

Couple of blokes, hanging out and talking about each other's cracks. Nothing to see here, move along.

[@MavHunter20XX]

Totally normal, rite?

[@jager1745]

Polymer lowers would be cool if they managed to lay thin aluminum wires throught like rebar in concrete but until then im not buying one

[@Vrilltrooper-of-sillymaxxia]

the issue isn't compressive loads tbh, its actually that they just don't use enough polymer, use the wrong thermopolymer and make it too hard in areas. If you touched up the upper to allow for an SR-25 style slant cut you could also get out a little more strength and not using proprietary push pins that would stop those holes being a weak point. But being made by a Satanist with zero material science quals doesn't help

[@KrokLP]

There are fiberglass reinforced plastics. The Russiany use em for the knife sheethes with integrated bolt cutters on NR-2 and NRS-2 type knives. Extremely sturdy and they mold them into complex shapes. And milling can still be done for even tighter tolerances

[@wood-wheel-wizard]

Plenty of polymer lowers, KZbin print shoot repeat.

[@Vrilltrooper-of-sillymaxxia]

FRP is incredibly brittle and its not really solving the issue of "here's a huge weak spot inherent to the AR15's design". Yeah it'd be straight up better, but ass to implement into the process.

[@ColtGuthrie]

@@KrokLPThe KP15 is fiber-reinforced polymer.

[@Widemouth1832]

My cousin hunts in Alaska regularly. He cracked a 10mm glock frame in the extreme cold. Glock uses some amazingly strong polymer and they have issues with the extreme cold conditions effecting polymer.

[@ianjohnson182]

Interesting. Do you know how Glock handled it from a warranty perspective?

[@Widemouth1832]

@@ianjohnson182 He notified Glock and they replaced the frame no questions asked. It developed a crack on the dust cover/rail.

[@Saboteur_91]

Sounds like your cousin needs a S&W M&P 2.0 steel frame pistol

[@DogeMcLovin]

Honestly there isn't a reason to NOT run an aluminum lower. It's lightweight enough as is and more modular...

[@ramdom_assortment]

I was looking at the KP15 lower just as a cheaper and lazy setup since it's cheap with all the components.

[@JNOSNOW]

I definitely like my KP15 lower better than even my fancy ambi lowers like PWS mk1 mod2

[@ianjohnson182]

@@ramdom_assortment Cost for features is definitely a consideration for the KP15 (that's one of the main reasons I got one). Reducing so many machining operations to mold, weld, post processing is going to cut a LOT of time and man hours out of the process.

[@mtnbound2764]

@@JNOSNOW i bet the pws wont crack though

[@JNOSNOW]

Yes but if I fall on the rifle like what seems to be happening when they crack, my pws buffer tube is going to bend and I'll be in the same shitty boat until I can get back to my desk and replace the lower or install a new buffer tube and hope it's just that. The kp15 is just more annoying to replace and only a little more money than a new PWS buffer tube.

[@fullspectrum1616]

The RecoilTV british guy was one of the few investors in the production tooling for the KP15, but of course they never disclosed that! There was no way that "review" was ever going to have a negative outcome.

[@fullspectrum1616]

@arder9332 He was one of the principal investors listed in the holding company LLC that KE Arms used to raise the funds for the molds, so he invested his money before the product existed. It's in a thread on arfcom, which is where I found out about it and Russel Phagan (sinistralrifleman) also confirmed it on kiwifarms.

[@fullspectrum1616]

@@thinkharder9332 Sinistral confirmed it on kiwifarms, it's also posted on arfcom.

[@timrobinson6573]

@@thinkharder9332 It could change the video because of selective editing. It's like the pharmaceutical company that funds a medical study that never gets published because the study shows bad attributes of their medication. They only publish the study that is done under very controlled conditions and shows the medicines positive attributes. If a gun reviewer has no financial interest then they are more likely to not selectively edit. You can't be that naive.

[@ianjohnson182]

Interesting, didn't know that. It would certainly explain why they were the first company to get a serious review of the lower, to the point where they hadn't even finished the molds yet (the video still shows the smooth / machined surface finish). Do you have a source for the investment? I did a quick google but couldn't find anything.

[@last_raven]

There is a reason Hoffman Tactical built the Orca the way he did. I am not a fan of the original lower design he did but I'm curious how a well made Orca would stack up against a KP-15.

[@elmexicanoforlive]

Funny you mentioned that, I am working on making some super high end polymers for his lowers! Im talking about polymers that can replace metal parts if you use equivalent material weight. Waiting on the machinery so I can start making fillament.

[@NvrchFotia]

@@elmexicanoforliveYou can already do that with a printer with a heated chamber. Just use PC-PBT.

[@sleigh4019]

Lol..they last 1000 rds or so ..I have cav15 thats 20 plus years old ..cute though

[@CupidChud]

@@sleigh4019why do you hate technological advancement?

[@elmexicanoforlive]

@@NvrchFotia Although it is a pretty good chemical mixture it cannot replace metal parts. It is very tough since it is a PC blend but it does not have the heat resistance, chemical resistance or the strength required to be a ultra performance polymer. It is definitely and engineering polymer but it does not have the numbers to replace metal parts in all three. The polymers Im talking about can withstand 200C continuously, have no known chemical solvents under 200C and have some material properties within the range of 6061 aluminum!

[@uncledonkey675]

Also missed opportunity to use Plastic Love in the intro

[@Almost_Made_It]

I’ve always considered mine a “do everything except shtf” rifle.

[@gooce9870]

once again original stoner wins epicly

[@rebzdomine]

I heckin :transheart: ultra light rifles!!!!

[@gregghuge3270]

@@rebzdomine I need my rifle to weigh .4 pounds lighter so I can then add 12 pounds of lights and lasers and other doo dads. You aren't tactical till you make your barrel short enough to ruin the ballistics, make it pencil thin so it will run into heat issues if you sustain fire for more than 2 mins and then run a 14k per tube nvgs and peqs. The american battlefield will be exactly like when me and 250 redditors meet up on a flat range and do comps, the ultra light set ups are perfect.

[@GammaAKF]

I can see KE guys getting pretty reasonably pissed lol, "it was cracked, you were going to send it back, and you kept using it until total failure?!" If it was an aluminum lower and it cracked I don't think it would have been useable at all, and the fact that it continued to work with obvious damage says that it is pretty good as far as polymer receivers go, but you guys are 100% right: your use case and environment should dictate your weapon choice, and clearly the KP is not well suited for harsh winters.

[@stickfighter1038]

I did train with the KP15 a couple of months in hopes to use it for serious duty. While mine did not crack, the takedown pins, the stock not being plate carrier friendly, trigger quirks etc was enough to move me to an Aero M4E1 lower. Still do not regret buying the KP15 since it is a cool concept..

[@shuumai]

The stock can be cut down a little. A company sells them pre cut. Don't know the name. I run my adjustable stock only 2-3 clicks out, so the KP15 seems to be on the long side for me as well.

[@timrobinson6573]

When you pivot or remove the upper from the lower you just put the takedown pin back into its hole.

[@shuumai]

@@timrobinson6573 imagine a magnet as an M-lok attachment. Just stick the pins to the magnet. Heh

[@SuspiciousGanymede]

​​@@shuumaiecho93 is the company but it's hard to be on their schedule with the guys being active deployment. I was the first person to reverse engineer the stock cut, 11 3/4" from the front of the trigger blade and cut with a miter saw. Then epoxy to attach a pachmayr basketweave small buttplate. It's still not plate carrier friendly, an adjustable stock aluminum lower is leagues better for that application

[@DriveCarToBar]

Makes me wonder how many of these fixed length 'muh plate carrier' guys could gain several inches more clearance if they hit a treadmill instead of trying to find a shorter collapsing stock.

[@thoughtlessroamer]

Now this is some avengers level production value

[@marettmrc]

Why dont you just put the retaining pins back in the holes you took them out of to retain them instead of adding additional, identical holes in the stock

[@GammaAKF]

Well, in my case I had that exact same talk with whatshisface from KE: the pins have to be out to reassemble the rifle, and removing them, reinstalling them, and removing them again is quite annoying after having done it several times. I'd really rather have them retained in a different location until I'm ready to install. It's like pushing the pins back in on your lower after disassembling it every time and only opening them right before you use them. Their answer was to just put them inside the trapdoor buttstock. I understand the argument. It is workable, but it is an annoyance that there is a well accepted solution that they refuse to do. Id even take their petulant "you guys are stupid but here it is" attitude they're likely to give just to have the capability I want. The HK pin holes just work well and have been the standard since the 50's for a reason. When you're working in the field, you need to retain the pins *before* the next step of disassbly to avoid losing them. It seems stupid but it's a big deal for critical small parts of a gun. For that reason I'd never use my KP 15 build for a serious use rifle, though I love shooting the little thing.

[@timrobinson6573]

@@GammaAKF I've had my rifle for 2 years and have not found it annoying. If you had separate holes in the butt stock for them You would still have to take them out of their normal holes, put them in the separate holes, take them out and put them back in their normal holes. Just use your brain and think about the process and what you're saying.

[@GammaAKF]

@timrobinson6573 if you don't get it, then you don't get it. I'm not going to convince you via text.

[@ianjohnson182]

@@GammaAKF I have both a KP15 and a G3 clone (Centry Arm C308). Having a spot to put the pins during field stripping is a nice feature, which I appreciate on my G3. And it seems that the buttstock can have extra holes in it because of the inclusion of the QD hole nearer to the pistol grip and the mlok slots near the rear. I wouldn't mind seeing that in a Mk 2 version. However, I can also see the argument that KE's intent is for you to put the pins in the trapdoor hole (assuming you have room and haven't crammed it full of stuff). It seems like a workable solution. I was going to complain that, if that was their solution, why were they upcharging for the trapdoor buttplate (as the were when I bought mine in spring 2023)? But it seems that the product has changed, maybe. The option for trapdoor buttplate is no longer on the KP-15, and the stand alone trapdoor buttplate is out of stock, so maybe they just include it as standard now? Or maybe they stopped offering it at all now? I can't tell because there is only one product image on all of their product pages. Either way, the need to retain the pins someplace clean and secure while in the field is important. I was shooting this weekend and taking the upper off and on for reasons, and I was always looking for a place to put the pins (I forgot I had the trapdoor). I've emailed them about the trapdoor, we'll see what they say. It's also not ideal that the takedown pins are proprietary, but that's a small downside for the features the KP-15 offers (and I'm going to buy an extra set just in case).

[@GammaAKF]

@ianjohnson182 I agree on all points. I'd love a place to put the pins while immediately removing and reattached. I always end up in limbo. Hell, a buttplate option with pin holes would be workable too.

[@BadlandsRifleman]

After watching this video the other day I emailed KP Arms and asked them how cold the KP15 is rated for and this is what they replied "The material is rated to -40 degrees. People are actively using them in Finnland and Alaska." Whether the damage to yours is from the cold or just the weakness in that region of the lower, or both, it's something that I've never seen or heard of with an aluminum lower. Keep up the good work!

[@DriveCarToBar]

The failure mode of aluminum parts is going to be different. You won't see a crack like that in aluminum simply because that's not how it would fail. The Aluminum lower would more likely have its buffer tube bend and or rip out of the threading in the back of the lower. A bent buffer tube from stomping on the rifle after chucking it over a fence can render an AR15 unusable. KE isn't wrong about cold weather use. More than a few of these rifles made their way over to Finnish Brutality and competed in a grueling competition. Both rifles in question were used and then left in a car. If water got in around the takedown pin and froze, that could definitely cause a crack to form. That might not happen in an aluminum receiver.

[@BadlandsRifleman]

@@DriveCarToBar For sure. I think throwing a rifle is generally a bad idea anyways, but I have seen them sucked out of vehicles hit by IED's so there probably is some relevance to testing the durability in such an odd way. Managing moisture and condensation in the cold is always a challenge, whether it's on an optic or on the action of a rifle. I think your theory about moisture getting in and then freezing is a very good one and as most grunts would attest it is another good reason to break down and clean your weapons after you take them out.

[@0Asterite0]

@@DriveCarToBar a bent buffer tube can be fixed without destroying the receiver lmao

[@furude_rika371]

Let's do a wood lower this time

[@JohnHabbinga]

I built out an all aluminum lower with all the WWSD lower parts, exactly. I used a MFT Battlelink Minimalist Stock and an off-brand grip. Overall, the rifle with the aluminum lower is 3 ounces heavier than the plastic lower.

[@MrOneyoney]

If I remember correctly there were a couple of kp-15s at the Finnish brutality which involved them jumping into ice water. I don’t know if your problem was caused by prolonged exposure or temp diff in a sunny car

[@DonVoyage6948]

You knew that would happen, we all knew it would happen. Why do we buy things like this?

[@BushDog777]

Someone has to test them

[@wahttehfuk]

We? What are you, french?

[@scott_hunts]

Cheap guns make me happy

[@denpabacon8501]

Cause people are, you know, stupid.

[@MrGrieves]

​​@itsmightydusty1996 I mean, I think it was a known fact that KP15 lowers are unreliable.

[@joesephkingston1621]

Interesting. I have 9 of these now. I’m curious if it is a complete design failure, batch issue, or a select few.

[@GammaAKF]

If you're willing to put in a ton of work and risk them, run a reliability test on most of your batch in various conditions and post a vid, it'd be pretty interesting. Serious torture tests from various twisted minds are the only way to identify all of the issues with a product for the next version to be better.

[@BigBADSTUFF69]

do you larp around on the ground throwing your shit everywhere? if not then they are probably fine.

[@SuspiciousGanymede]

Over 2k though my kp15 lower over two years. I'm in tx with temps from 0-115°F, not an issue and it's been thrown around quite a bit. Running a 20" FN national match upper with a tuned gas system. i would be interested to see what ke arms says and what your gas system/buffer setup was

[@ianjohnson182]

Did you have issues when you first fired it with the 20"? Me and my buddy both have 20" w/ rifle gas and carbine buffers, and they were short stroking like crazy, failing to lock open on an empty mag. He added much more grease to the spring and it seems to have resolved for him, but I'm just curious if anyone else had this issue.

[@SuspiciousGanymede]

@@ianjohnson182 no issues but my upper was very overgassed, i had to use an H3 buffer and Sprinco red buffer spring. KP Arms says to shoot several rounds and take the buffer/spring out and empty the buffer tube of any excess flashing from the molding process. Maybe that's the problem?

[@Zap_R0sdower]

Good video. I have one of these lowers that basically just lives in my car when I'm not shooting. I'll keep an eye out for any cracking during the colder months.

[@ianjohnson182]

I have a buddy who has a kel tec SU16 which stopped working in the cold (he thinks from polymer shrinking). I will definitely be cold testing my KP-15 this winter to see how things go with it before committing it to a serious roll.

[@brad_1388_]

Ooh a heckin 4 ounce weight savings! Better compromise the integrity of the most important part of my rifle!!!

[@DogeMcLovin]

Lmao this

[@brad_1388_]

@@thinkharder9332 buddy, if you use a car-15 stock, the weight difference drops down to 2oz. dropping weight at the rear of the rifle doesn't even help ffs, it just unbalances things more. This isn't even mentioning how limiting fixed stocks are, if you wear any kind of gear with them

[@DriveCarToBar]

I mean, you could sling your rifle instead of throwing it over a fence and then tripping on it with your whole body weight.

[@bruhnoyankeenobrim]

Where did you get that headband my brother in Christ?

[@an.appeal.to.heaven3810]

I made it

[@xenof9073]

​@@an.appeal.to.heaven3810 how did you make it

[@perfectly.sane.behaviour]

​​@@an.appeal.to.heaven3810I was just about to ask about the headband too. Can you please show the writing up close ? I'd love to add something similar on my kit.

[@regency-t5w]

sorry that happened dude, shit sucks hard

[@s_vb2220]

just a thought but Polyamide (the plasic type used in the KP according to another comment) can react to certain spraypaints. it is very dependend on the exact chemical composition of both the paint and the plastic that i in all honesty do not understand on a deeper than as a potential risk.

[@uncledonkey675]

But- but Cinnabon Rifleman said it would work this time

[@ianjohnson182]

cinnabon rifleman, omg that's savage haha

[@cyrusfreeman9972]

My old GWACS has been trucking along for years. I got a KP15, but I have never used it. Actually don't use it much since buying some other military weapon with a monolithic plastic lower :P

[@iiscd5970]

Were y'all's both black lowers or another color? I know adding dyes to polymer potentially changes the characteristics quite a bit. I've got a black kp15 lower. It's not my main rifle, but if I'm going to have issues I may as well use this as an excuse to get another lower.

[@DriveCarToBar]

KE will send your KP15 to get ceracoted if you want fancy paintjobs.

[@joshgworks]

Solid video and critique. Wraithworks lowers come stock with the butt plate. I would be interested to know what color you got originally.

[@ianjohnson182]

The wraithworks lower and KP-15 lower have the exact same product description. And everything else except the logo. Did they contract a version of the KP-15 with their logo on it?

[@myerextra]

satanist ultra light rifle actually sucks?!?😳😳 who saw that coming!?

[@krainex]

Why satanist

[@myerextra]

@krainex if you didn't know Karl from inrangetv is a satanist

[@ClitoridectomyGroyper]

​@@krainexWWSD was sponsored by inrange who is a communist satanist

[@myerflyer]

​@@krainex Karl from inrange is a satanist

[@xc8487]

​@@krainex People get all pissy that the guy from InRange is part of a satanic church.

[@dangerdoberman]

I don't understand why it's so difficult to make an affordable and durable polymer or similar material for AR lowers.

[@ianjohnson182]

I think it's more the design and geometry of the AR-15 and it being almost 50 years old that makes it not lend itself well to more polymer construction. If you look at something like the CZ Bren 3, that has a polymer lower, but they understand the limits of it and have designed the geometry of the rifle with those limits in mind and have metal where polymer isn't enough.

[@Rohrkrepierer]

8:50 Please please please save your knees. Don't risk injury by way of improper technique. There are plenty of videos showcasing proper drop to firing position techniques.

[@schizosaint777]

Wow polymer lowers really CRACK me up

[@iceguycam]

larping is over.. 😔

[@bafumat]

Yep, aluminum receivers never crack. Oh wait ... Yea... Sometimes they do. Poly receivers are a neich product. When weight matters more than ability to be abused. They arent the end all solution for warfighting.

[@shidandfard9976]

weight savings are great, but you don't reduce weight without paying for it somewhere else.

[@ThatAws0meGuy]

You see thats why I bought a box that contained a stripped Daniel defense lower with a stripped Daniel defense upper, BCG and barrel and some misc parts for about 600 bucks at an auction. I have added BCM and Geissle parts to fill the gaps and my AR is good to go.

[@BadlandsRifleman]

Good video gentlemen! Congrats on training and using your equipment realistically! I have a KP15 and live in the northern part of the country and have often wondered about the durability of the polymer in the cold. Prior to buying mine I talked to KE Arms (Russell personally in fact) and was told the Polymer should be good down to sub zero temperatures. From what I understand you guys were training in cool weather, but definitely not sub zero weather, when your lowers broke. It definitely gives me some concerns. Sadly it's too late in the year for me to test this myself by leaving the rifle outside overnight and then testing the lower. I could put it in the deep freezer though... As much as I hate to admit it I'm going to switch back to my heavier aluminum lower until I can answer that question. What is interesting is the A2 buttstock is polymer, and I've never seen one break despite having been in the infantry and seen hundreds of them used on IMT ranges. I think the area around the take down pin and safety is the weak point and has to be metal. As a former grunt myself I totally agree with your critiques about the trap door and retaining the take down pins needing to be included. I also agree that KE should be open and honest about what climate the rifle is suitable for. I agree that everything has (or should have, there's lots of people trying to sell stuff to people just to make a buck) a use case scenario it is designed for, and I've often wondered if the guys at InRange and KE had all the relevant experience to develop something like this. Don't get me wrong, they are awesome shooters and I totally applaud their approach to realism with the way they compete, but I also feel their WWSD project could have benefited from letting some grunts do some IMT in the cold with it. Really appreciate your video and if you ever want to get out and do some fieldcraft training hit me up, I love training with guys who get IT! badlandsfieldcraft.wordpress.com/2022/11/15/fieldcraft-class-description-and-gear-list/

[@jason200912]

You ran it so hard that even a m1a stock would snap in half

[@hoodedhunter731]

Thanks for the information, I like the kp 15 but this is disappointing to see.

[@GuerrillasGuide]

Simply no reason not to buy aluminum. All these apologists in chat are certified cringe lords.

[@DrunkSailor73]

love how he is flagging the shyt out of his buddy.

[@johndecker9983]

I live in Northeastern Pennsylvania. It gets cold here. I'm glad you Gentlemen brought this to my attention. I have 2 of the kp15 lowers, one went back immediately due to the bolt catch didn't function properly and required swimming. Other than that I've had no issues. But those lowers are on firearms that do not see hard use, poor man's DMRs if you will. 😂 great video

[@SuspiciousGanymede]

I've had my lower for two years and just noticed it being wierd with the bolt hold open, I'd send it back for a replacement but i had the stoxk shortened and a new replacement would require another expense.

[@ianjohnson182]

@@SuspiciousGanymede Also shortening the stock definitely voids the warranty.

[@theotful]

Is there a simple way to reenforce it with tape or something prior to CW use that could potentially help prevent a crack or a break?

[@JHansell3031]

If you watch frame by frame he stepped on the sling, the one thing that should have prevented the break caused it. As he held the handgaurd, one foot pinned the sling which jerked the stock into the ground. Since the stock was already cracked, catastrophic failure was not surprising. I would like to think that an undamaged lower would have fared better. As the owner of a couple of KP-15s (one early 5*** and a later FDE one) I like the concept and think these are the best option in their category. The FDE one has been my lightweight coyote gun for a couple of years, including 20 deg F winters with no problems. I would like to see more evidence on what caused the cracks to begin with other than just theories, but it's unlikely unless someone buys a dozen sacrificial lowers to test. The metal vs plastic debate somewhat mirrors the magazine arguments, but Pmags and GI mags are both still popular. As bad as the break was I still think it could have been field repaired (duct tape) into at least a single shot, or home repaired (plastic welding) to a moderately serviceable rifle if you had to. I no longer watch inrange, but the KP-15 can still be a useful and innovative product.

[@Justjoshyyy]

Got me kick and giggle and shi

[@kebomp]

what pants are those with the integrated kneepads? are they arktis?

[@amadeus5254]

crye g3 cut has integrated kneepads

[@Zach_D]

Great idea in theory, still not logical to use a plastic receiver over forged aluminum, which is way stronger, super lightweight, and cheap.

[@EWLR89]

I bought one to test in my local -20° winter. It just hasn't been cold enough this winter.

[@thelastjohnwayne]

I am glad I saw this video because I was going to buy one but not now

[@frigglebiscuit7484]

wow,i wonder if the ati omni hybrid maxx polymer upper and lower is actually tougher. its got steel inserts on the buffer tube and barrel nut area.

[@Ammotax]

I’ve had a rifle blow up on me I could never run a polymer rifle it’s probably safe ,but you never know

[@shuumai]

I have an Extar EP9 9mm with polymer lower AND upper AND it's a blowback system. I would worry about the temperature extremes of leaving it a vehicle, mainly during the summer. I also don't grip it near the chamber. When I couldn't have a brace on it, I had visions of the bolt flying out of the end of the polymer buffer tube! Haha

[@patagucci8482]

Lmao, when i saw it in your videos lile a year ago i knew it was gonna happen eugine stoner perfected the lower with its original alloys

[@BrochachoEnchilada]

What type of tigerstripe pants at 8:26?

[@JP-th8sq]

I wonder if it was an issue due to sudden change of temp.

[@TacShooter]

Seen lots of pictures of Krytac airsoft M4's cracking like this.

[@theconstitutionalistoperat3841]

WHAT BRAND PANTS ARE THE BROWN & GREEN TIGER STRIPES?

[@TrueOpinion99]

So, you threw your gun over a fence onto medium-large rocks, stepped on it while running...but it's the polymer's fault that it broke? I've seen standard buffer tubes fail under similar treatment; one instance, the buffer tube bent just enough that the buffer wouldn't cycle.

[@IvanIvanoff-d4p]

Insert shocked pikachu

[@benjaminpierce911]

If you want something to be lightweight, buy something inherently lightweight, if you want something more durable, buy something durable, buy something inherently durable. Don't expect a product designed to be lightweight to be as durable as something designed to be more durable and visa versa, unless its specifically designed and advertised as much made out of the proper materials. This might sound fuddy... but metal will always be more durable than plastic, carbon fiber/nylon reinforced or not. Don't expect plastic to do the job of a forged/billet, quality aluminum.

[@mjolnirdynamics8789]

I have some KP15s but they're not really my primary platforms. Good info. I'll admit I have not run mine much at all. I really got them as a low-cost cache platform. I do like how they look though. I think the big take away is that this should probably be a backup or training platform for the time being. Since it clearly still hasn't been perfected. I'd still buy one and recommend one. For the price you can't beat that you get an all-in-one sort of. What I mean by that is there is no need to purchase a different stock for it and you really don't even have to buy a sling mount, though I do. You can just run some 550 through it. I agree the trap door should be standard but it's also a nice added feature. Thanks for the vid. Let me reiterate for those in the gun "community" who suck at reading comprehension. I'd only recommend this as a secondary platform. Not as your primary. It's a descent budget entry item.

[@ianjohnson182]

I posted this on another comment, but the trapdoor is no longer an optional feature, and it's sold out on their store. The product picture (singular) doesn't show it, and the description just lists "buttplate". I'm not sure what changed, but I sent them an email asking if the trapdoor is now standard or if it's been discontinued.

[@ianjohnson182]

Received a response about the trapdoor: "It's no longer being offered. "Sometimes we have trap door buttplates from cavalry manufacturing, but those are currently out of stock. "Regards, "Send from my iPhone" I definitely sent it last night, but my email shows it sent at 5:00am and got the response at 5:01am, so darn prompt response. Unfortunately, that means that the lower, purchased today, has no way to retain the proprietary takedown pins with the gun during field stripping. I find that to be a problem. Now they say on their site that A1 and A2 buttplates can work but may require fitting. However, removing any material from the lower voids the warranty. Another commenter here reported that using an exacto knife to remove flashing which was blocking his trigger from being installed voided the warranty. So they should really clarify on their site that "Other buttplates may work, but if you modify the receiver to accept them, that voids the warranty."

[@mjolnirdynamics8789]

@@ianjohnson182 weird that they no longer offer it. I really like having it on mine. Good info though for anyone else looking to buy one.

[@mjolnirdynamics8789]

@@ianjohnson182 I just got an email notification from KE Arms that the trap door butt plates are restocked.

[@AceFalken]

I'd be interested in seeing if adding some metal reinforcement in that area would do.

[@DriveCarToBar]

There is another device that avoids this problem entirely. It's called a sling. With a sling installed, you don't have to throw your rifle over a fence and then stomp on it, breaking the stock in the process.

[@AceFalken]

@@DriveCarToBar I think using a sling to sling your gun over the fence would be more detrimental.

[@computer_carnivore]

“I believe that’s called the collapsible stock” 😂

[@scottdpugnificent]

Im not saying that ATI or Tennessee arms makes better lowers, what i will say is that both of their lowers use metal reinforcement and although i only have experience with Tennessee arms(for poly lowers). Having metal in the buffer tower makes sense.

[@Rebellion1776]

Subscribed to you guys...this is the real deal in an actual review of a product. Keep the vids coming, your doing great!

[@batteries8297]

where did you got the headband?

[@TheOtherFagola]

He made it himself.

[@eitredenewirtshaustur5659]

​@@TheOtherFagola how ? Ia there a Video ?

[@TheOtherFagola]

@@eitredenewirtshaustur5659 Nah, I saw him reply that to a comment asking the same question.

[@hortler]

Why not make the upper part of the lower? Then if there is a crack on the stock both the stock, grip, lower and upper is damaged. Screw replacable parts, that would be good for the user.

[@Vrilltrooper-of-sillymaxxia]

you're describing the G36

[@Nerfhalo1]

I think it’s worth pointing out, in InRangeTV’s conclusion for the WWSD 2017 Project (prior to the KP15), Ian and Karl both said in that video that they think their overall configuration of parts (which used the GWACS lower) was NOT ready for duty use. The video is here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/laqaaJmMgpljo6ssi=q3PCf_qb_GNddSSc . They talk about it around the 23:50 minute mark. The experiences you two are sharing are valuable though. I bet if both of you had known about the InRangeTV video I linked, it would have helped y’all avoid these issues, but knowing what you know now and sharing that with us is still appreciated.

[@Helghastdude]

Is there a connection between this and all the US made AUG stocks cracking ?

[@EthanAnderson-gt7gz]

Looks like it doesn’t like the cold…

[@mgmzaymoeboyzent]

Is there anyway to fix? Or should I just buy new bottom frame?

[@mm97600]

hi, what optic are you using at 0:46?

[@dr.kekyll9839]

Probs the primary arms cyclops prism optic

[@mm97600]

@@dr.kekyll9839 thank you !

[@fytube7818]

i agree the stock should have a spot for the pins standard. my thoughts on the lower breaking: 20 degrees f is not cold, and if that is causing cracks.. then that is a big problem. it should be solid at zero or ideally negative 10 degrees f. we will see about that as more data comes in: people are using it in the cold for real shit. I think if it holds up for at least 5k rounds then it is good to go. in other words: you can have extra lowers when they are cheap and light. just like a platoon might have an extra barrel or other parts. also, good point about the application! if you fall on your gun a lot then you need a solid gun =)

[@scott_hunts]

I like cheap guns but polymer lowers are just kinda lame in general. Even the 3D printing guys reenforce them with metal hose clamps, and if they are concerned about the strength of something that should say something. You can turn almost any solid material into an AR lower, the only question is if it is worth the time and effort for what you get.

[@davek8706]

What are you even accomplishing with a polymer lower? Negligible weight reduction?

[@GammaAKF]

Well, weight reduction, reduction of small parts that tend to be the focal point of wear on a lot of receivers. I think you're giving up a lot to get those, but lowering cost, weight, and complexity is a good thing, even if the user may not receive all of the benefits. I'm picturing these as a cheap alternative to buying receiver, parts kit, buffer, stock, grip, etc and you get a lighter receiver too. Definitely not going to make sense for all shooters. Their "civil defense" variant is probably the best use of these. A cheap, lightweight, low complexity rifle. You're still probably better off with an A2 lower, as it is upgradeable if you want to change it.

[@BigBADSTUFF69]

its made by guys who do competitions, the lower itself is .5 lbs less but the whole gun with the carbon hand guard and pencil barrel is several lbs lighter. but it's for competitions, not really for throwing over a fence.

[@michaelrostine1315]

Thank you for sharing. I have a new frontier plastic lower that shows a lot of flex that is not in k e arms lower.

[@PNWukrainian]

0:18 bro HAD to let us know he had those A10 eyes 👁👁 😂

[@richardsveum8452]

I'm Surprised that they haven't had any failures at Finish brutality.

[@wood-wheel-wizard]

Why buy any lowers? I just print em up 👻

[@LittleOwl-p9o]

gatekeep or lose it 😨

[@GuerrillasGuide]

Thanks for the review. Your contribution to the community is very much appreciated.

[@johnsmith-sp6yl]

polymers get brittle with moisture absorption, like weedwhacker strings or 3d printer filament. another possible cause, and another thing they dont have to deal with in the southwest.

[@MedicalTape_xX]

I'm in Texas so I'll keep mine but I would have liked to seen this video 6 months ago lol

[@Hogmagundy]

Remember when we used to make stocks outta wood. I miss those days. Lol

[@Agrothewarhorse]

Damn, that's a shame; just got the premium psa/fn 20" upper and was looking into the kp lower. Guess I'll just do a bushmaster xm15 lower build.

[@kurtisnicholson125]

I tripped on my rifle? OK

[@sleigh4019]

Lol..well you in a dead run flooped on it lol..have 2 in Maine in winter 2 years and no issues ..there light and fast but not what I say is a full duty rifle

[@sleigh4019]

Tells me mine are ok in maine ..not doing pushups in the snow or belly flopping on dead sprint on mine ..not yet anyways

[@tombearclaw]

@@sleigh4019some people just want stuff to fail like the p320 / m17/18 series and keep trying to make them fail

[@DriveCarToBar]

@@tombearclaw I mean, Sig is actually having real problems with their striker design. The guns are indeed going off without people touching them. This video shows a dude who chucked a rifle 8 feet through the air onto the ground, clambered over a fence and then tripped on it with his whole body weight. Then he made a video about why he wouldn't buy another one. Instead, video should be titled "I broke my rifle because I was stupid and didn't use a sling."

[@MrJustinUSCM]

Was just listening to this song. Such keyed song choice.

[@michaelrostine1315]

Thought they were rock solid? I spray painted mine but have not subjected it to any adverse temperatures. I have a safe queen. Ser.# KM 7*** thought I had one of the first produced.

[@peanutbutterranger1899]

KE arms says you guys deliberately abused these and that they’ve had zero returns for breaks like these out of the 30,000 lowers they’ve sold. And that they still replaced these lowers for free. I am by no means attacking this channel, as this video serves as a reference towards whether or not I will go with one due to what I can expect durability wise.

[@DriveCarToBar]

This right here. Video titled "Why I would not buy the KP15 again." when it should really be titled "Why you should use a sling instead of throwing your rifle over a fence like a goober."

[@daddystiel4324]

Got 3 and have had no problems.

[@jimmypavone3231]

I appreciate your input!!

[@mtnbound2764]

I never bought into the KP lowers. like.. ok neat but.. it doesnt really do anything special over a regular ar lower set up, in fact it has more drawbacks than benefits. weaker than metal, non adjustable.. ok its a little lighter.. big deal....

[@thoughtlessroamer]

It’s been 3 weeks Mr Appeal…

[@BrassAngels]

Real life! Cheers to not editing that jazz out! 🇺🇸🤘#ARJunkie #2ARights #RepealNFA

[@chrissinclair4442]

I thought it would be good for a light weight hunting rifle, but I don't hunt.

[@The-future-is-in-the-past]

>reddit lower advertised by shills/a satanist >is bad Wow, who would have guessed

[@BigBADSTUFF69]

what are you talking about reddit hates karl

[@MtnCaveDweller]

Incredibly based headband ☦

[@alexanderstallings9352]

Came here to say that!

[@CaptainCiph3r]

Lot of cope for a shitty lower in these comments.