Why Industrialists Are Getting Screwed in Eve Online

An update on my current activities in Eve Online.

[@jonvind3719]

Mining belts doesnt create inflation m8. Quite the opposite actually. Same with lower reprocess yields. And same with ships blowing up. Ships blowing up actually causes inflation. You seem to have missunderstood something.

[@jonvind3719]

+Jon Vind Also complaining about inflation and then complaining about taxes(an isk sink) shows a lack of understanding of eve economics tbh

[@Idontknowinder]

+Jon Vind second that

[@EliteAirborn]

+Jon Vind yeah he seems to have things kinda backwards.

[@dkt80]

+Jon Vind Ship blown up = less ISK in the game = less aggregate demand = lower prices. New asteroid belt is a bit more complicated because here supply and demand both increase. This may lead to inflation or deflation, depending on how the additional money supply is distributed around the economy. I think you may have been misled by the idea that many ships *of the same type* blown up *at the same time* increases the price *of that item* because of replacement demand. However the money spent on replacements is necessarily not being spent on something else.

[@jonvind3719]

ships blown up does not = less isk in the game. Its the other way around

[@NikopolAU]

Autopiloting in New Eden??? * desire to jump into Thrasher intensifies *

[@hwhack]

A Canadian who is against taxes? Too... much... hypocrisy.

[@alkihir9832]

As someone who really only does solo and gang pvp in eve, this went way over my head. You deserve a pay raise for getting me hulls to explode in.

[@Algebrodadio]

There is also inflation caused by people purchasing PLEX for real money. If you want to protect your ISK wallet, I recommend investing your ISK into PLEX and holding them. This is especially true if you plan on quitting the game for a while.

[@NichoTBE]

Mineral prices started to go up after the mining bot bans like 5 years ago or something, the more minerals are mined the more the prices will go down. Looks like eve is in an age of over supply at the minute as most things are going down in price. Most faction items have dropped massively in price over the last few years. Also, i'd imagine the 1% have trillions of isk.

[@penitent2401]

+NichoTBE the mineral prices went up because they removed the rogue drone alloys loot, rogue drones used to have no bounty but drop alot of alloys that refine to large amount of minerals, up to 75% of all minerals used in the game was coming out of the drone regions. alliances there mine by shooting rogue drones and refining the looted alloys.

[@vp21ct]

It's a sad fact. The most effective way to combat the inflation would be to eliminate the 'printing presses' of the easily replenished resources of spawning asteroid belts and spawning Rats and missions rewards. Unfortunately, that would make the game virtually opaque to new players, and slowly smother it's player-base as a result.

[@sarwarn2107]

I like your videos welcome back. 3 years ago before I start playing eve online, I was inspired by your industry in eve online, so I started playing the game since then. Your guides are very helpful and enjoyable to watch. Just to let you know about a little secret that you may not be aware of it. CCP is now controlling market price of plex, ore, skills injection and many more, to prevent price bubble. In February 2016 plex price went up to 1.4 billion. I am aware of ccp controlling price of compressed ore.

[@MrErizid]

When they made Ore Reprocessing 70ish% max, they increased the amount of minerals in every ore by 30%. You can get more minerals with perfect refining than you could before.

[@GamerParent]

Just a heads up - mining minerals and looting wrecks doesn't create new ISK. You can sell those resources for ISK which already exists in the game. Here are a couple of good links that help explain the concept: www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/176033/the_designers_notebook_.php www.themittani.com/features/what-eve-game-design-taught-me-about-economics

[@GamerParent]

Also, it's not the state that is taxing you when you build something, it's the facility owner (the corporation) that is charging you for using their facility. Just saying ;)

[@MirageScience]

You can update your assets window by going to search tab and clicking search. Not sure how often you can update it that way though, probably 5 minutes, but it isn't tied to the automatic refresh.

[@OperationValhalla]

This is painful to deal with. RIP.

[@haoss69]

whats a ' shimra " ?

[@Got_It_From_Ebay]

+HaoSs Ok, so I wasn't the only one who was bothered by that. BTW Andrew, it's pronounced kai-meer-ah.

[@hartleypatterson]

+HaoSs Chimera.

[@haoss69]

i also know it as " kai-meer-ah. "

[@malango255]

+HaoSs It's pronounced Carbon, I always buy them from jita local chat.

[@haoss69]

***** i have some carbon to sale.

[@hartleypatterson]

System Cost spreads Industry out from the Trade Hubs. I live close to the Hub and pay up because I'm lazy! Are we getting screwed? The Spreadsheet says profits are still good. I'm looking forward to Factory Citadels - will I have to move out my NPC station to compete with them?

[@MirageScience]

+Hartley Patterson he is just used to 100% refine. He probably hasn't looked at the amount of minerals he is getting now as compared to before.

[@TriageBlog]

Interesting video. I build not too far from you in Irjunen. I didn't know that you still have an installation cost at a tower - thought it was just in a station. The extra 10% to pay is worth it for me at the moment with Citadels coming soon (tm). Saves me investing in towers and arrays. Do you ship our cap parts to low-sec via jump freighter or simply repeatedly haul them in using a blockade runner/deep-space transport?

[@AndrewTheRed1]

+Triage Blockade. But I ship minerals not cap comps, and only the small ones (Nocx and lower). The rest come from buy orders.

[@RufusShinraPower]

+Triage Not sure how many people know this, but there is no job cost if you build something in a wormhole.

[@RogueRAZR]

+RufusShinraPower Your POS can be attacked in WH space though and it doesnt seem like his corp has the staff in order to consistently defend it.

[@RufusShinraPower]

+RogueRAZR Just saying

[@shurikozerov3164]

The road map for the next 9 months is pretty heavy on making industrialists cry with joy.

[@barryryan7777]

thats funny you have billions and think you in the 1% in eve

[@arnaudmiller-goupil4252]

+Barry Ryan thats funny, he lives in hisec and thinks hes in the 1%

[@barryryan7777]

you would have to a trills to be in the top 1% not bills

[@arnaudmiller-goupil4252]

at least

[@talkhtw55]

+Barry Ryan IwantISK are the richest in EVE, goons stole 300b from them, problem is 300b is nothing for them lol.

[@EliteAirborn]

+Barry Ryan Haha exactly for an individual player not considering corp or alliance assets you need to get into the hundred bills to start treading that water.

[@donworland]

Fascinating, the inflation thing & wow, you are a busy player.

[@Apollo729]

You didn't need the SMA to launch the ship, once assembled in the large ship array you can launch it right from there.

[@Puckanm]

This was an amazing video! I have never tried to build anything more then Missiles to keep me going. Im definetly going to check out more Industry thanks for the Info.

[@ditunnod]

I was making freighters until the patch that changed industry. Have not run a single print since that change.

[@TheRealCharlieSuper]

Hrm, probably should place my reprocessing array back at my POS. Is it worth more to compress or reprocess?

[@Stinngerr]

How do you avoid wardec and have POS safe in high sec?

[@arnaudmiller-goupil4252]

+Taras Romanenco one player corp?

[@Stinngerr]

+Arnaud Miller-Goupil you can't wardec 1 player corp?

[@arnaudmiller-goupil4252]

no it's not that, but wardeccers tend to look at corps that are growing/have a lot of new players. Also if he is very rich, he can employ mercenary corps?

[@LarsOlaArvidsson]

How much profit do you make building freighters? Includung tax and everything.

[@g0lanu]

It's so funny that you insist on lecturing on the economics but fail to see the bigger picture, even though you slightly touched on it. That tax might be simply burning a big chunk of your production and it really has the effect of decreasing your will to produce that thing, but it's also the only known mechanism that would curb you and others alike from over-producing some things until they implode the markets they were active in. A market were you can make large profits is nice, but it matters less if it nukes the ability (credits) and will of other people to consume those products or leave them unwilling to buy other products and contribute on the market. And especially if it does it at the rate that it happens in MMOs, like EVE. It's funnier since you've touched on it and specifically started by pointing out that they're introducing these changes to curb inflation and it's even funnier since the orthodoxism reaction on this is that introducing taxes also adds more inflation, since the costs are chained up and all of it will be paid by the consumer. In this case, taxes are added to curb inflation? Interesting. You might have proven why financists and western nations are using the current policies, we actually want a market that is active and predictable over long periods of time, more than we want a few to make profits on the short term.

[@SMSGTREUSTER]

Glad you're back

[@burnouttx]

Well, they are killing the AFK carrier ratting person so that should put a small dent in ISK inflation problem. I also moved my high sec manufacturing pilot to a different system since it gave me a higher return on my refining.

[@davidbest5909]

Any tips for a newbro getting into EVE and the Industry area?

[@user-py9cy1sy9u]

+King Kenny Once i sold damage control units for 60k each in amarr

[@chaoli9844]

Since when can u refine in a pos at high sec? Do u think pos refining is better yeld-pos cost to station refining?

[@chaoli9844]

Yield

[@drokonkel]

how much profit did you make from making the chimera and the providence? you kinda just threw it into the cooker without saying how much it was going to cost for it

[@davez751]

+Cyber Kai not alot since it takes 10 days for the item to be made so in that time he could of easy made the profit mining or killing something

[@EliteAirborn]

Im sorry but ur not in the one percent....

[@Toxic13unny]

+Lunar This guy should have a chat about that 1% with chribba XD

[@EliteAirborn]

yeah I bet im worth 30x what this guy is and im not even in the 1%

[@zanarothbloodfin5861]

I sure wish I could find me a shimra man, nowhere on the markets

[@sebi123654]

a "1% veteran" with 30 bil wallet. rofl.

[@Nihte21]

why not just set up a pos in jita instead of where your at now? why did you decide to set up where your at ?

[@knallpistolen]

low upload volume, first 6 mins is just chatter and the rest is just silly stuff.

[@DMoney9590]

I don't want to sound mean but it's about to happen. The industry changes are not new and these changes came about 6 months ago or so and have changed in minor ways since. I think you probably missed the entire time that Industry Teams were an option that no-one really ever used, leading to their removal as a mechanic. You've been unsubbed for far too long to be able to give your opinions on inflation and the games economics any weight. Without the context the economy lives in, you will never begin to understand why it does what it does. Have you heard there's an enormous war raging right now? This has extreme effects to the markets. Finally, I don't care how wealthy you think you are, others will agree with me that you don't sound like you know what you're doing when you mispronounce the names of ships like Chimera, or use 'bubble' to describe a POS forcefield. Bragging is the kind of thing that gets you war-dec'd. I recommend doing more homework than reading the E-Uni Wiki. I'd offer help, but 1, I don't care, and 2, you're only on once a week. If your POS got reinforced, would you know about it? Good day and good luck.

[@MannyKunV]

everyones swimming in isk, all i want is enough to buy a plex and t1/t2 frigs/dessies for pvp without having to spend half a month grinding missions and shit. i suck at this game.

[@ForeverDoubting]

So prices inflated hugely, and it's not gotten harder to make the same stuff, so they are adding taxes to combat inflation. How are industrialists getting screwed by this ? Sure more taxes, but the higher prices should compensate no ? It's the non industrialists who are screwed over the most by this situation imo. Prices go up but they still have to run the same missions with the same rewards ?

[@MirageScience]

+ForeverDoubting That's correct, except it doesn't translate 1:1 in terms of increased price, because the isk is being removed from the market, causing deflation. So in the long run it helps people who generate their income through isk payments/bounties.

[@AramakiMakisan]

Tea Party is already in EVE, they live in null, :P

[@RufusShinraPower]

I understand why your complaining, but some of the changes you're talking about happened a year or two ago. Also, I would expect that every (old) industrialist knows that the game is tilted against them. Just be happy with your discontent with CCP.

[@allhallowsevil1]

BETTER START GRINDIN MISSIONS XD

[@YouCountSheep]

wait wait. you say you pay the tax? but then what happens? you put the tax ontop of your original margin meaning it becomes more expensive for the buyers. If youre saying you still use the same prices like before taxes hit youre just saying that your profit is so damn high that you can easily afford it, meaning youre ripping off people who use that stuff. The afk drone ratting for carriers will be gone after the next patch so we will see what that does for the economy. No more afk ratting.

[@garethtimms505]

Industrialists are getting screwed because they all sell too cheap. The ebb and flow of the markets make HUGE profits when someone buys up all their shit. You need to take a long term mentality with this game not "I've got all this stock and this other indi dude wants to sell too so lets drop the price big so he won't follow!"

[@MilesUmbrae]

Sorry, but I cringe every time you pronounce "Chimera" wrong, so here is a useful link: www.macmillandictionary.com/pronunciation/british/chimera

[@MirageScience]

Is their economist stupid? Destroying player's ships causes inflation. *edit* nvm, I see what you mean with the job costing isk. That's a rather inefficient isk sink. Something more efficient is something like buying bpos from an npc. (more efficient, not necessarily more effective)

[@Idontknowinder]

+MirageScience Destroying player's ships causes inflation because of the insure payout. Apparently this is a pretty big ISK faucet.

[@JusticeDCS]

The best way for you to make money in the past 3 months was build a shit ton of interceptors. :D

[@Emperor9992001]

Great parody!

[@Drazer012]

I wish i knew how to do indy shit but its way over my head i think lol

[@user-py9cy1sy9u]

+TheMMOptimist Ammo is best start except in amarr space

[@Loan--Wolf]

your makeing my head hurt

[@shockyoursenses]

chimera is pernounced ki-mirr-aa

[@chal5957]

yea sorry m8 you're not even close to 1%

[@SomeOne1121]

"Shimra. Shimra. Shimra." That's not how you pronounce chimera

[@dvgamer360]

this actually bugs me. it's pronounced "kai-mera" not "shmira".

[@nateeverts3915]

How bout a loan then ROFL

[@bigbaderek1978]

how do you know nothing about this game.....

[@youtubes7600]

1%? Show us your wallet.

[@mcknightsnow]

i am alittle confusied nestor is new? xD more like old.

[@cellsec7703]

+McKnight this guy doesn't seem to know anything about the game or economics.

[@mcknightsnow]

Sec 420 oh then WTF Why did i waist my time to see what fellow eve player thinks if he does not know anything........ or even play eve. i thought it was just me like WTF? am i missing something lol

[@mingiasi]

stopped watching after sinus field...

[@FourFour-ee1tf]

Such a poor.

[@propjam2]

I used to like Eve but it's a dying game, the company (CCP) don't have a clue what they're doing anymore and they've led players down the garden path for years.

[@cellsec7703]

+propjam2 "EVE is dying" is an objectively false statement in my opinion. Would you care to share some statistics or player numbers to back that up? Because as far as I can see the player count has been slowly but steadily growing the same way as it has for the past decade or so.

[@propjam2]

Sec 420 Are you sure that's based on active players or accounts made?

[@cellsec7703]

propjam2 if you believe wikipedia you can check their eve page which shows "active subscribers" steadily increasing from 2003 to 2014 -where the chart ends. data for 2015-2016 is unavailable but i find it hard to believe it would suddenly drop for no reason, since I am a very active player and the community and myself are generally very happy with recent updates and the direction the game is heading. and i have not noticed a population decline at all....in fact i am finding the opposite, it is getting more and more difficult to find a quiet area in low or null to do ops, even with the recent WH space expansions. i think this is sufficient evidence to presume the game is very healthy and still growing. i have no idea why you would say it is dying. there were some updates in the past couple of years which had negative feedback, but this was solved and now they are listening much more to the community. so the game has not always been 100% perfect and that no mistakes were every made, but to come to the conclusion you did is just silly and based on no evidence. I can only assume you heard some random nobody unhappy ranting about something. iv been playing it for years and i am as confident as i have ever been about it's future, which is why i invest so much of my time playing it. i am even developing a new website to write about the game. I wouldn't do this if I had any worries that the game was not growing. it is a niche market which is very strong. there is no other game like it so there is no competition. furthermore, CCP recently upgraded their server hardware and are apparently working on an EVE tv series, which are strong indicators they are confident about it's future. Additionally, Valkyrie has had very positive feedback so far and is one of the first games people will think about when looking at Rift VR, which will further boost EVE marketing. So all that said I am very confident about my belief. Are you?

[@propjam2]

Sec 420 With all respect good sir. I will take a look at the data as fanfest is coming up and that you insist that what I am saying is incorrect. I will admit i haven't looked at the data in a while. But all that aside..(I'm very serious about this and i'm saying this not to mock you in some way) has anyone told you, you sound like you're in a cult. Eve has that effect on players. Be careful. People see what they want to see or plainly accept what the company tells them. I've said this to sooo many eve players now. but, you have to realize its a game that gets you heavy invested so its hard to leave why it charges you for extras or merchandising? If you compared it to scientology for example you will see some similarities. they both string you along telling you the next thing is going to be great but it snails on for years , they put you on a progression table that you have to either devote a lot of grinding to or stay in the game for a lengthy period. every time I speak out against CCP or the status of Eve i'm met by what i can only describe as fanatical players telling me i'm wrong and i'm stupid, marketing being shoved in my face all the time and it became about trying to get you to buy something than giving you meaningful content. I think EVE is still a great game but the company has a real lack of ethics. I could talk all day about it. But if you absolutely love it then that's fine, whatever gives you enjoyment in life. but if its not too bold in me saying so, if its the most important thing i can say is this.. Take two months off from Eve. I think it healthly to step back from a game that engrosses you to reflect on it and try other games etc.

[@cellsec7703]

propjam2 I respect your opinion but you are flat out wrong and what you are saying is based on ignorance. I do not sound like I am in a cult -they say untrue things, everything I said about the game mechanics are objective facts regarding ships, modules and tactics, whether you like the game or not, these things all exist in the game to the degree of complexity I stated, these are hard facts and not debatable, you can do research yourself if you do not believe me. I have played EVE for several years and taken months off a few times. I play other games too. Almost every MMO has additional purchases or cosmetics you can buy and EVE is less pay to win than other games even with the ability to buy plex because of the loss factor in death. The company is way more ethical than other game companies in general. You honestly have no idea what you are talking about. You probably think I am sounding defensive, but you have clearly made many false statements and have obvious prejudice. Almost all my statements on this thread are hard facts and not my opinions. You can try to counter by picking out any individual fact I claim and tell me exactly how it is not true. But you have not done this and resorted to ad hominems and baseless assumptions about the psychology of myself and the game community. You may be tempted to continue along this line of argument based on emotion rather than fact, but I suggest to you do do some research before making even more of a fool of yourself.

[@Gaggibueb]

Stopped at when you said ISK created to respawned asteroid belts... :) shows you have no idea what you are talking about. also 1% of the wealthies people with "billions" of isk. try trillions mate.

[@cellsec7703]

+Gaggibueb Yep. Anyone who has played more than a year should have billions unless they are spending it all on plexing their account, or they are doing something seriously wrong.