Why Is Genesis 6:1-4 NOT Referring To The Sons of Seth?

[@DRMSH]

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[@alanguy58]

Long ago, when I first started listening to Mike, I was smitten. As I recall, regarding "context", Mike made the statement that, "...the Bible was written FOR us, but NOT TO us. It was written FOR all people of all times, certainly. But it was written TO the people of THAT era in THEIR context." This was in reference to the fact that the ORIGINAL CONTEXT of the scriptures is crucial when we (in OUR times) study the Bible searching for answers and advice. If we, in our studies, don’t constantly keep in mind the ORIGINAL CONTEXT our studies are pretty shallow. God bless the day I discovered Mike.

[@anthonyfmoss]

Yup Guy, you’ve hit the nail on the head. What Dr Heiser said which you report and comment on, is utterly crucial for us to understand. It’s why I bought “Unseen Realm” and why I’m signing up to the next semester on his School of Theology.

[@rabbitcreative]

That's General-Semantics 101. Idiots.

[@rabbitcreative]

@Vera That's missing the larger point.

[@YHWHthegreatIAM]

I agree that context matters, but I think we mistakenly believe that people are somehow different now as opposed to back then. There is nothing new under the sun.

[@marvalice3455]

I massively agree

[@KlintonSilvey]

I'm always impressed by all the people who KNOW what a divine being can and cannot do.

[@john-paulgies4313]

It sounds like your tacitly denying the abstract possibility of knowledge of what God does and doesn't do. "...He cannot deny Himself." (2 Tim. 2:13) "And no one knoweth the Son but the Father: neither doth any one know the Father, but the Son, and he to whom it shall please the Son to reveal him." (Matthew 11:27)

[@KlintonSilvey]

@@john-paulgies4313 i am not. But the scripture is not exhaustive on what the rest of the Elohim can and cannot do. Not even close. Just because God has revealed some things about himself specifically does not mean we know everything about spiritual beings

[@john-paulgies4313]

@@KlintonSilvey If angels could beget offspring, they would be animals, i.e. they would have material bodies by nature, as human beings. But this is contrary to Scripture: God "...makest thy angels spirits: and thy ministers a burning fire," (Ps. 103:4) so they are not animals but spirits, and do not have bodies capable of this operation of generation.

[@KlintonSilvey]

@@john-paulgies4313 they are clearly embodied in lots of places in the scripture in some sort of corporeal form and can clearly interact with the world. There is no getting past that the Biblical writers believed this was possible all the way into the NT.

[@john-paulgies4313]

@@KlintonSilvey "Now as I beheld the living creatures, there appeared upon the earth by the living creatures one wheel with four faces. And the appearance of the wheels, and the work of them was like the appearance of the sea: and the four had all one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the midst of a wheel. When they went, they went by their four parts: and they turned not when they went. The wheels had also a size, and a height, and a dreadful appearance: and the whole body was full of eyes round about all the four." (Ezek. 1:15-18) Do angels have bodies, not as mere appearances, but of their own?

[@DRMSH]

Don't forget to attend today's WEBINAR, March 21, at 8:00 p.m. (ET) on this KZbin Channel THERE WILL BE A SPECIAL LOGOS DISCOUNT FOR WEBINAR ATTENDEES - BEST PRICE OF THE YEAR. Simulcast: Facebook: facebook.com/DRMSHPhD Don't forget to join the DIVINE COUNCIL WORLDVIEW - Bible Discussion Group facebook.com/groups/393777644878175

[@jiffyjax8038]

WOW,,, reading through the comments and surprisingly I'm not surprised to read many people disagreeing with Michael. The problem I've found with christianity is most christians are quick to disagree and debate certain theologies even if they haven't studied them thoroughly. This is one of the main reasons I don't attend Church, as I've found I don't learn enough there and when I ask questions I get a confusing answer which leads to awkward conversations ( unstudied uneducated answers ). I choose to study at home on my weekends ( four hours Saturday six hours Sunday ). Michael Heiser's book The Unseen Realm is one of the best books I've studied, it's academic in weight it's to be studied not merely read. Question everything STUDY carefully before jumping on and dumping on certain theologies. Bless you, all,,,,,,,, Study the Book

[@isaiahkerstetter3142]

"Let us not cease meeting together..." On that note (and I say this as an Evangelical) nearly any church is better than none, with worship as the chief focus rather than sermons. That being said, if differing views bother you, look into "Rock and Sand by Fr. Josiah Trenum". Orthodoxy may be for you. There's something to be said about the early councils and the general consensus of the early church Fathers.

[@JP4truth]

@@isaiahkerstetter3142 Apparently, during the 10 hours of study each weekend our friend is doing, he never came across that verse in Hebrews.

[@andrewscotteames4718]

Not going to church because of interactions with people who aren’t highly educated theologians is like not going to the gym because of interactions with people who aren’t professional athletes.

[@CRoadwarrior]

The only thing I have to say about Dr. Heiser is this. If he does in "The Unseen Realm" what I've seen him do in "Reversing Hermon," then I know that book also is filled with speculation, assumption and logical fallacies. Nowhere does the Bible teach us that angels have gender or that they are sexual beings that can procreate with each other, let alone with an entirely different kind. And when we remember back in Genesis 1 how God made creatures to reproduce only after their own kind, it makes NO sense that God would put a biological block on inter-kind reproduction but neglect to stop angelic-human reproduction. Dr. Heiser and others have errored by ignoring pertinent points of Scripture and science, as revealed here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eqfTooiYYpKciKs&ab_channel=CRoadwarriorCRoadwarrior

[@lilchristuten7568]

For to which of the angels did [God] ever say, You are My Son, today I have begotten You [established You in an official Sonship relation, with kingly dignity]? And again, I will be to Him a Father, and He will be to Me a Son? [II Sam. 7:14; Ps. 2:7.] Hebrews 1:5 AMPC

[@davidsarkar6668]

Amen ! Finally someone explained it really well ! I'm a simple man but all thanks and praise be to Jesus that He gave me this presence of mind to notice that it was written sons of God and daughters of men, not: 1. sons of God and daughters of God 2. sons of men and daughters of men 3. sons of men and daughters of God So it was the fallen angels/watchers and human girls.

[@tryemc3026]

Now that you know .. how that effect you from a faith point of view ?

[@michaelmalaki7176]

@@tryemc3026 Actually, has a lot of significance. In South Asian countries these scriptures are used to control the life of young men and women. Unless you marry the person your parents approve of, you are bringing judgement upon yourself and they will quote these verses even if the person you are interested in or in love with is a born-again believer. Anybody who goes against the grain is ostracized by the family and church communities. This is especially used to bring women into bondage as they will be condemned as acting like daughters of Cain if they don't absolutely respect their parents choice for a partner.

[@lilchristuten7568]

Did you notice him say that the story in Genesis 6 comes from a false religion?

[@OldSchoolBaptistInOslo]

5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? Hebrews 1:5

[@patrick7842]

why only human girls? wouldnt that still make girls the only sinners and men the only believers?

[@John14-6...]

I totally agree with Dr. Heiser on this one. Chuck Missler, another one of my favorite Christian authors and speakers happens to agree with Mike on this one too. The best points Ive found, that noone can answer from the Sethite view is, If they were the righteous sons of Seth then why were they destroyed in the flood? Why was only Noah and his family spared if there were these rightous sons? Or what about the daughters of Seth, were they unrighteous because they were female? Then of course there's the elephant in the room: How were giants born to normal human parents?

[@lilchristuten7568]

They weren't necessarily just the sons of Seth. They were righteous until they fell away because they married unbelieving wives who lead them astray. We don't know about the women who were considered righteous at that point but we do know that Noah was the only righteous man chosen by God to save him and his family from destruction. There's actually no evidence that the nephilim were giants, the bible doesn't call them giants, nor does it say that they were larger than normal people, it simply says that they were mighty men of renown. More modern people have come to the conclusion that they were giants for no real reason, except for the fact that nephilim is translated as giants in English translations. There are only 3 times the word nephilim is used in the Hebrew scriptures, once in Genesis 6 and twice in Numbers 13. Genesis 6 says nothing about their size and Numbers 13 the reference to their size is from an evil report given by the spies sent to scout the promised land. While the case in Numbers isn't necessarily wrong when it comes to the fact that the people were of "great size" we only know of people in that area reaching somewhere around 13 feet tall not the exaggerated size of "we were grasshoppers in our sights and we seemed the same to them" which is where the absurd gigantic hieght of 450 feet in the heretical book of enoch comes from.

[@John14-6...]

@@lilchristuten7568 Well Im definitely not a book of Enoch apologist I do believe theres enough evidence just in the bible to explain the giant view of the nephilim being fallen angel offspring. Its not just because the Septuagint translates it to gigantes either. It also helps explains Joshua's wiping out of the Canaanites as they are not fully human. There's alot of scripture to support this argument but I don't want to write you a book. Your better reading or listening to a video from Chuck Missler. The early church fathers also supported the fallen angel view of Genesis 6. Personally I tend towards that view of Genesis 6 being fallen angels but I do like your argument and would have no problem believing it.

[@shantor100]

Why do offspring have to be giants. Righteous men died in battle and who says they stayed rightous especially after marrying pagan women. I'm just not sold on angels marrying and pretending to be a normal size man and somehow manipulating DNA to produce a giant. Plus why aren't they doing it today? Or anytime after with proof. It's too cryptic for me. Fallen angels distract from Jesus and wreek havoc. Breed with humans. Just don't know about that one

[@lilchristuten7568]

@@shantor100 The biggest problem with the assumption that the nephilim were the children of fallen angels is the fact that Genesis actually illudes to the fact that nephilim were on the earth during and after the time of Noah "when the sons of God came into the daughters of men". There's no issue of the nephilim being descendants of other nephilim. So the only conclusion is that there were multiple instances of angels rebelling against God and siring hybrid children. Of course that makes no sense.

[@shantor100]

@@lilchristuten7568 correct and angels can't create life like God through DNA or other means. They were just a bunch of Shaquille O'Neal's

[@MrCEPPaulT]

At the St Louis Art Museum, I was looking and reading about the Relief with Winged Genie carved from gypsum. “Often called a genie (apkallu in Asyrian).” As an aside, it added to making sense of this topic for me. Carry on!

[@isaiahkerstetter3142]

I'd love to hear a discussion between you and Michael Jones of Inspiring Philosophy on this passage.

[@DimensiondelosSecretos]

I go with ip's version on this one. The angels thing is just to much

[@isaiahkerstetter3142]

@@DimensiondelosSecretos It is too much but is it true? If it is, that's a terrifying reality to which I need to recalibrate my worldview to.

[@peytonsingh1038]

I’d recommend watching Chuck Missler’s teachings about this. God bless you all and Christ loves you!

[@DimensiondelosSecretos]

@@isaiahkerstetter3142 well yeah, you would have to go with the deuteronomy 32 world view, which is heisers view, and it's not bad, but I think history and culture goes with IP's theory

[@redpilledtrooper7523]

@@DimensiondelosSecretos So you are willing to accept that God had plagues going down on egypt, parting the red sea, and Blowing shofars to have the walls of a city fall, but angels creating the demi gods we hear about in greek and egyptian and mesopotamian mythology is where you draw the line? IP is good for some things. But I think he has created a mentality that God can do SOME things but not ALL things. He wants to trust the bible, but not before checking in with science text books to make sure they can back it up. While having science ( knowledge) is good to back up sources, and is especially great with archeology, at the end of the day it will all rely on faith, and you cant in good conscience call yourself a Christian if you pick and choose what is and isnt supernatural in the bible. Because all roads leads to Christ, a man who healed the sick, and performed supernatural miracles, then was crucified but miraculously rose on the third day.

[@rocko100able]

Monday November 30th at 3:07 in the afternoon, More nuggets, I'm ready to eat, northern Idaho's in the house ready to devour, thanks Michael.

[@CJFCarlsson]

I prefer the word "timeless" to "outdated", thank you.

[@honorablevessel]

Yes!

[@CJFCarlsson]

@@iraborpeter Thank you for sharing your spiritual search for money with me. Now; Begone.

[@amycanizaro5987]

I love your Bible Project series! Love it have watched all of these little videos, including this one on my tv on KZbin! Love your work and I thank you for sharing! Have been watching you for many years!

[@OldSchoolBaptistInOslo]

5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? Hebrews 1:5

[@HeavensLegacy]

Dr Heiser nails it

[@NivellaR]

The seven apkallu are mentioned in the book of Enoch. They are seven stars that are in the ether. I believe they are seven of the watchers

[@Romans8-9]

Apocrypha.

[@friendlyfire7509]

Are these the same "7 spirits " mentioned in Revelation?

[@beautycomesfirstllc6130]

@@friendlyfire7509 no absolutely not. The seven spirits mentioned in revelation are the seven spirits of God. They seven are on Jesus of Nazareth without limit, the seven spirits are also mentioned in Isaiah chapter 13 I believe if not mistaken and he prophesied that these seven spirits will be descending on Jesus of Nazareth, and the seven are, the spirit of knowledge, understanding, fear of the Lord, spirit of the Lord, wisdom, counsel and might 😭😭😭😭 👈🏼 tears of joy and happiness and abundant desire to receive those seven spirits.

[@dwtolar]

the Book of Enoch is not inspired and contradicts the Bible. Jude did not quote that pagan garbage and we shouldn't take it seriously. It is a lie from Satan.

[@alltimeislikethepresent]

You wrote: _"The seven apkallu are mentioned in the book of Enoch."_ Who is supposed to care what is written the so-called "book of Enoch"? You wrote: _"They are seven stars that are in the ether."_ To hell with the so-called "book of Enoch", the damnable forgery. God's Word, the Holy Bible, teaches that the stars were not created until Day 4 of Creation Week. So much for the claim of any stars having been on the scene at the time when God laid the cornerstone of the earth.

[@DRMSH]

Vean también este video con Subtítulos en Español en nuestro canal de habla hispana kzbin.info/www/bejne/e4LUeqGHjtyXpJo

[@debbiecooper3661]

There royal seed they vow to protect. God said they will have king's and their kings will worship satan and they will have synogog of satan. God said the bastards will follow Ephraim to the promise land they will come praying to God. Royals same bloodline as king Rameses and her black Muslim brotherhood and nubians same people God went against in ancient times.

[@debbiecooper3661]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/kKWkgKubgNSoiac . Royal

[@vacaloca5575]

(re-edited) Dr. Heiser, interpretation of scripture must be based on context and the correct meaning of words, but context means the text itself, way before external texts are considered and properly synchronized; not using the immediate context is to ignore time proven exegetic rules without which interpretation cannot be correct. The term Sons of God is incorrectly translated in Gen 6:2. The phrase says BNEI HA-ELOHIM, which, in this context, means sons of the gods, not sons of God, because of the definite article and the fact that in Genesis the elohim are necessarily a plurality. As I said in another comment, the word ELOHIM does not necessarily mean God; in fact, it rarely does in these early passages. Specifically, in 6:2, it cannot mean God, simply because God is not in context, and because of obvious reasons, such that God does not have biological offspring, if God is considered to be a non-physical entitiy, a description that most believers accept. Anyone who knows a little about the hebrew of the bible knows that Moses was declared an elohim in Exodus 7:1, and this is because he was an authority, not because he was divine or some kind of god; so, elohim often refers to humans in the hebrew scriptures, and that's a fact. The fact that in 6:2 God is not in context is easily proven. The previous times the word ELOHIM appears is in the previous chapter where it refers to the ELOHIM of 1:26, since the ELOHIM of 5:1 and hence all other instances of ELOHIM in Chapter 5 refer to the ELOHIM who created humans in their image, hence the ones mentioned 1:26. And the correctness of what I'm saying here is proven by the fact that all professional translations of the book of Genesis by Hebrew scholars have the ELOHIM of 6:2 as rulers, not God, which is a ridiculous proposition, when you think about it. I repeat, the word used in 6:2 is HA-ELOHIM, meaning "the elohim", and this is the first instance in Genesis where the word ELOHIM appears with a definite article, and so it is specifically referring to those already mentioned; so, it is imperative that one goes to the previous instance of the word ELOHIM to see what it is referring to, and so in this case, we see that the ELOHIM mentioned throughout Chapter 5 is the one mentioned in 5:1, which is the same one mentioned in 1:26, since it is the one who created humans in their image, the image of the elohim. Furthermore, note that if we have been created in their image male and female, it obviously means that the ELOHIM were also males and females.

[@vacaloca5575]

Dr. Heiser, the apkallu have nothing to do with Genesis 6, which is relating a time much later than that. There have been many floods and hence many flood stories. Scientific data confirms that floods, cataclysms and harsh conditions occurred often for about four thousand years, from about 9000 to 13000 years ago. The apkallu lived after the early floods and disappeared with later ones, more than ten thousand years ago. Noah's flood occurred only about 4300 years ago.

[@vacaloca5575]

Dr. Heiser, you don't seem to know hebrew very well and you are violating basic interpretation rules by ignoring the context. The word ELOHIM does not necessarily mean God; so, the mythification of the passage you are doing is not scientific. In fact, the word does not mean God in most passages in Genesis. The ELOHIM of 1:26 are obviuosly humans because they create humans in their image, and also because there are several of them.

[@lw216316]

Look up all the references to "sons of God" in the Old Testament. In their context do they refer to 'angels' or humans? I found that they refer specially to angels in almost all cases with maybe only 1 reference that was indefinite. The most famous is in the book of Job when the sons of God were meeting with Him in heaven and Lucifer showed up.

[@validcore]

That's on the earth. Satan is walking among the believers lookout for one to devour. It doesn't say angels and it doesn't say hes in heaven.

[@aznation4592]

@@validcore dude yes it does GOD asked him where you been or coming from and he said coming to and fro the earth and walking on it. If they were all on earth why would he say I’m walking on earth makes no sense. Also where are angels ? In heaven yes yet you want them to meet on earth also makes no sense

[@validcore]

@@aznation4592 those were believers not angels. He was looking for someone to devour. God said have you considered Job not have you considered Michael the archangel. The fall has happened. Satan dosen't have a back door elevator to heaven.

[@aznation4592]

@@validcore you lost me ! Why would GOD say have you considered Michael the Ark Angel ? This event meeting in heaven had nothing to do with that spoken in Genesis.

[@validcore]

@@aznation4592 1st it's the book of Job not Genesis. 2nd it never says it's taking place in heaven. The Michael comment was just me having fun because obviously the sons of God are believers including Job.

[@craigsharp653]

Only man was given the command to be fruitful and multiply,only man carries the seed.

[@davidheaton6206]

Oh. No ever disobeys commands?

[@lilchristuten7568]

Well actually the animal were also given the command to be fruitful and multiply. They were also given seed. Plants were also given seed. Angels however were not given seed.

[@bertgoat]

@@lilchristuten7568 you know this how?

[@maximusdecimusmeridius4638]

Jude 1:6

[@martywilliard]

Who jumped in the tent with Sarah? How you explain Mary and The Holy Spirit …

[@heavensarmiesmarc]

You have to be God's elect to understand certain things! This man was blessed with wisdom! Its hard to catch certain things with superficial eyes 👀

[@madmanjim795]

Very interesting. I would love to know why the Apkallu background story should be considered if very very few commentaries do not include it.

[@Bibleguy89-uu3nr]

Because a lot of commentators will defend that Moses wrote Gen 1-11 and are unwilling to have a conversation that involves those 11 chapters being written during the Babylonian exile. It seems most like that they were written then as polemics, which does not mean they’re untrue by the way.

[@JCSJesusChristSaves]

As the other respondent mentioned, if you bring into account middle eastern mythos as evidence then by default non believers will then use said comparison to attack the scriptures as not being the truth. They will attack it as being copied from middle eastern origin myths. Thus Genesis couldn't have been written by Moses because it uses references Moses wouldn't have been familiar with until later on during the Babylonian captivity. However, if I'm correct (unable to point directly to why I think this) the Egyptian mythos has a similar myth concerning the Flood and why it occurred. Also, non-believers will say scientifically that there is no evidence for world wide flood. Yet, almost every culture that has had any established population back to beyond antiquity has a flood mythos that usually corresponds with man becoming very sinful or against God or gods.

[@ChristCenteredEschatology]

Because if you allow the Bible to define the context, then you would have to come to another decision.

[@bradleydewaynepettit]

It’s weird how Cain’s descendants and Seth’s descendants would create giants if something deeper wasn’t going on.

[@youwillknowrlc68]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/a6euhHuQjN55fNU

[@andyhamm3102]

It is a logical conclusion that the sons of gods here are fallen angels. If that wasn’t the case the entire passage wouldn’t make sense anymore. No context of Mesopotamia is required to arrive at this conclusion. It just supports this view.

[@honorablevessel]

Yes, this is (or should be) common sense.

[@elijah-kimmariewashington756]

Jesus explains it best that the angels are sexless so they were not created to mix with humans. According to the Bible and the Lord angels cannot have sex. It's not about logic in the Word. God is A Spirit. Worshiping God by and understanding scripture by His Spirit alone and not man's understanding. 1 Corinthians chapter 2.

[@honorablevessel]

@@elijah-kimmariewashington756 You are correct that Jesus said that once we humans have died and taken on spiritual bodies (like the angels have) then, and only then, shall there be no giving and taking in marriage (ie sexless). Spiritual beings are all male, never once does the Bible depict a female spiritual being. Humans obviously do have two sexes. Jesus never said an angel cannot have sex with a human woman, what Jesus said was that in heaven no sex takes place. Secondly, if you believe that you can learn the will of God without learning His Word, then I doubt there is much that we can agree on. Acts 17:11 and 2nd Timothy 2:15

[@CRoadwarrior]

It is not so "logical" that the sons of gods are fallen angels. Where in the Bible are we ever told that angels have sex or sexual desires, or have the ability to reproduce? Nowhere. So why are people so quick to believe blantant mythology being injected into the text?

[@lilchristuten7568]

@@honorablevessel How about the fact that the book of Hebrew makes it clear that God has never called any angel His son?

[@nanakofi3349]

Adam was called a son of God. Luke 3:38 says; Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God. It shouldn't be a strange thing that the line of Seth were referred to as the Sons of God.

[@richardfasullo8407]

Laodicea means “Peoples Opinions” the early church knew about the Nephilim! Maranatha!

[@larrymoore2571]

Hi Richard, did the early church know about: ~ Acts 17:26; “And He has made from 'ONE BLOOD' (NOT MIXED ANGEL/HUMAN BLOOD) 'EVERY NATION' (YES INCLUDING THE ANAKIM, REPHAIM, PHILISTINE ETC.) of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their pre-appointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, (NKJV)

[@AayliahMaeClouse]

Thank you sir for educating so many of us. We love you on earth or in Heaven.

[@ramahonlineschool]

Does Mike provide the full teaching on this subject outside of the theology school??

[@clintw8173]

Read his book Unseen Realm

[@Grandliseur]

If we simply let scripture interpret scripture, Gen chapter six is revealed. What is revealed is however unacceptable to many perhaps. Beginning with Peter: 2Pe 2:4-5 Darby 4 For if God spared not the angels who had sinned, but having cast them down to the deepest pit of gloom has delivered them to chains of darkness to be kept for judgment; 5 and spared not the old world, but preserved Noe, the eighth, a preacher of righteousness, having brought in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; Comment: here the word in the kjv used for hell is tartarus (darby: deepest pit of gloom), "but cast them down to hell" G5020 Original: ταρταρόω Transliteration: tartaroō Phonetic: tar-tar-o'-o. Another scripture shows this tartarus to be underground prisons on earth: Jud 1:6 KJV And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Phi 2:10 KJV That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; Comment: obvious reference to underground prisons! From this we can understand that the sons of God were disobedient angels. This 'sons of God's phrase is seen here also: Job 1:6 KJV Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. Job 38:7 KJV When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? From this usage, we can see that Gen 6's usage of 'sons of God' also refers to angels, but disobedient ones as Peter and Jude explain. If then these disobedient angels took human females with whom they produced offspring, the Nephilim would be that offspring.

[@JP4truth]

All rubbish...

[@CRoadwarrior]

This is flawed hermeneutics and misinterpretation at its worst. Genesis 6 does not claim the Sons of God are angels fallen or otherwise, and Jude and 2 Peter do not prove that fallen angels must be in Genesis 6. The truth is in this video series that goes into great detail of the problems with trying to find fallen angels in Genesis 6: kzbin.info/aero/PL5BA2DAB4E08D810C

[@Grandliseur]

@@CRoadwarrior And, what are you? An atheist? Or, someone who prefers human ideas to what is taught in Scripture! You have the right to believe what you like. For me, there is only a harmonious interpretation of Holy Scripture. Explain then, the angels that sinned according to Peter, what was their sin? And, the angels who kept not yo their own habitation according to Jude, where did they go if they left their own habitation? Jud 1:6 KJV And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

[@CRoadwarrior]

@@Grandliseur If you had taken a quick look at my channel, you would know that I am far from an atheist. I do videos against atheism. I've been a Christian for over 30 years, born again of the Spirit. As for the texts in question, people seem to think their assumptions about a text are the text itself. Sure, Peter talks about angels that "sinned," but he does NOT say what the sin was. People ASSUME it must be related to Genesis 6. The same thing applies to Jude 1:6. The point I'm making is, people assume too much and end up doing eisegesis instead of exegesis, and making up mythology instead of sound Christian theology. In Genesis 6 we do not have angels having "sex" with human women. We have not one iota of evidence from Scripture that angels have gender or sexual desire or organs. They can appear human, but they are not human with human organs. That is but one of the many problems that idea has. I started a video series exposing the fallacies of the "fallen angel" view of Genesis 6, and I suggest you take a look: kzbin.info/aero/PL5BA2DAB4E08D810C

[@Grandliseur]

@@CRoadwarrior I'm happy you're a believer; I hope you keep yourself pure in Christ. As to your videos, they are numerous on this one subject, and very lengthy about something Holy Scripture only gives the few details I already brought out, and you have the right to differ in opinion. The subject does not affect salvation. I would like you to elaborate on Jude and where the angels went?! How it so incurred God's wrath!. Hope you'll stay in Christ for it nearly looks like some End events are occurring now.

[@nevig6557]

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." So..obviously the verse above is telling you about the unseen realm that manifests in the physical. All the above is referring to Satan and his hierarchy of spirits. Just so its undebatable : "Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve." So 'entered into' is the same as 'went into' in any rendering of meanings. "And there was yet a battle in Gath, where there was a man of great stature, who had on every hand six fingers and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant." 2 Samuel21:20 So..Goliath is also known as "Goliath of Gath". Regardless of how anyone can try to debate it...this is not any ' natural deformity' scripture is taking about. Some like to imagine..but you dont just get a 'race' from a few deformities. The mighty men of old , were all you hear about...worldwide. You can research any culture. Not everyone was a "giant" but God makes specific mention of things for specific reasons. A common thread though, is how many were "giants". One can debate all day whether they were 3m high..5m high..What's important is the weaponry has been found and no single man can wield these..Whether 8 or 10 ft who some today might call 'giants'. These would still be tiny comparatively. These are the parts in scripture atheists like to pick on. Oh..its an evil God! He said to kill everyone, men..women. .children. .animals. .Burn everything! God was wiping them out for a reason. So , coming back to Genesis I say : "There were giants on the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men and they bore children to them, the same became mighty men who were of old, men of renown." Giants ..the same were the products of genetic incursion into the women. I dont read "in unto the daughters of men" as "Angels had physical sex with women" simply because they cannot transform to actual procreative beings..But they can appear undetectably "human". From then, to now..everything is about genetic manipulation. I shall say their ovarian tampering resulted in the genetic disaster.."Giants". Scripture is clear " Whatever has happened, will happen again". Everything in scripture is about the two seeds, sheep & goats, wheat & tares. " And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed" The "seed of satan" isn't 'sperm cells'. Its his ongoing efforts to 'mimic' the creation by genetic tampering . Today you see bio and nanotechnology kick into higher gear. "Neural Link" attempts to plug into your psyche. What you're really becoming is a "habitation for spirits". "Aliens" are just spirits, conning fools..but their powers are high, with full control over the elements. "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes." So..Jesus used the scripture to silence the Sanhedrin. Would you say "Im a god" even in jest..if Christian? (I' ll be surprised if you say yes 😊 ) God is referring to these beings. All through scripture you'll notice God speaking on multiple levels between earth and heavenly. Even the demons know exactly what you know about their end. " What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us BEFORE the time? ... "What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted." ..thats demons ..they already knew about the Lake of Fire and they do have a definite idea about their time span. It may not be fully apparent to them but you can be sure the know about it. They got a shock to see Jesus at that juncture in 'time'. As minions of satan , they really had ZERO problem acknowledging "Son of God". Its only Lucifer that was like "IF you are the Son of God...." He knew SQUAT about God's plan..thats why he killed Jesus. Nobody knew. Those at the time of Jesus knew nothing. .except that the Messiah would come. But..God's plan is still rolling out. Its summarized in this : Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn." The genetic incursion is shown here: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way.". Thats regarding satan. Genetically tampering with creation. They're continuing today..repeating pre-flood earth "tampering". It all culminates with satan sitting in the "temple of God" ( ie in human fleshly form ) as the "man of sin". Those talking physical third temple rebuilding etc..All garbage. These are all deceptions of satan for illiterates including daft Christians. So..in a nutshell, all the above is the duality of the "wheat and tares" running through the entirety of the teataments. Its taking place on multiple fronts..so while we all know Satan loses...He actually thinks he can win. God has given him the ultimate "long rope" to hang himself. He's already told you : ' satan is the god of this age'. Its allowed by God in this strange seeming battle. So..everything until the Second Coming of Jesus is "this age". Its all satan's 'time'. I know some like to say "What God can allow this..with people as the pawns in some sick game!" These are all the wicked and scripturally illiterate. God never does anything purposelessly. You're here now. You don't know exactly when..but you do know Jesus IS coming again. Btw, you will see nobody mention what I said about 'the sons of God' (angels) doing "genetic tampering" in that "went into the daughters of men". For all its " angels procreated with women/had physical procreative sex ". If you consider what I said about 'Satan went into/entered Judas" you might catch what Im meaning. Its the exact same language that shows you "manipulation of his faculties" in his case. With the "alien abduction" thing its similar. People are "inhabited" and their psyches are pierced , but they also display physical traumas. What do all the women say? "They were taking my ovaries" and similar recounts. Everything you see in the world is alllll encompassed in : "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

[@lilchristuten7568]

Ok I didn't bother reading all of that. Because it's mostly a bunch of nonsense. The seed of satan is sin and more specifically the consequences of sin; sickness, disease, poverty, oppression, depression, deformity, disorder, all manner of corruption, and (by way of the fallen nature) all those who are in sin (those who have not been born again).

[@Terriblenameforachannel]

Where can I see this full lecture?

[@michaelshannon6558]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/hIvHn4tup5ZgfaM

[@emmanuelmakoba6085]

If Sons of God was referring to angels then why does the same passage stress the wickedness of Man and how God regretted creating them? Whilst its good to have context from different resources, it's always better to have scripture intepret scripture.

[@25dollarbill24]

Not to mention, why did Moses not use the apt term "nephilim" ("fallen ones") to refer to the sons of God, if the sons of God were fallen angels? Instead, we are told by Heiser and co. to believe he unaccountably used the term "sons of God" to refer to fallen angels. And, we are told to believe that by the term "nephilim" ("fallen ones"), he was not referring to fallen angels, but instead, to someone or something claimed to have been born to fallen angels. I wonder if these _"Angels married women!"_ cultists ever get around to explaining why, how and when the nephilim (whom they say are _not_ fallen angels, but only offspring of fallen angels), themselves, _fell._ If the nephilim were neither men, nor fallen angels, then in what sense are the nephilim ("fallen ones") supposed to have fallen? I saw one _"Angels married women!"_ video in which the presenter quoted Paul's words to the Ephesians: _"we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places"._ I was amused that they would bring up this passage, seeing as it invites an inconvenient question against their asinine, sensationalist, fearmongering claims: _Are the nephilim flesh and blood, or not? Do we wrestle against the nephilim, or not?_

[@davidheaton6206]

God didn’t create nephilim to be saddened by them. He was sad for what he created. He had not part in the other unholy union

[@25dollarbill24]

@@davidheaton6206 _"God didn’t create nephilim to be saddened by them. He was sad for what he created."_ What (if anything) do you even mean by that? Are you actually claiming God did not create the nephilim? Are you actually claiming the nephilim are uncreated? _"He had not part in the other unholy union"_ To what (if anything) are you referring by your phrase, "the other unholy union"? What the heck are you even talking about?

[@micaelalgarrao6043]

Because the angels weren't evil...the text talks about men (Nephilim were also Men)

[@theanonymousmrgrape5911]

I’ll go out on a limb here and say that it wasn’t Scipio Africanus you were thinking of, writing in the 3rd Century.

[@aceoftrades82]

See for me what's interesting is that I have always believed the sons of God in genesis 6 were angels. The word says that. Up until a year ago I started adopting the sethite view even though I still believed the nephilim were giants and that God used the children of Israel to destroy them later on. However after studying with Dr Heiser and reading the scriptures more and seeing Enoch I understand more that the sons of God were indeed the watchers. Also I have realised recently when God said to those who believed he gave power to become sons of God. So like holy watchers

[@kingjesusreigns]

RE: Genesis 6:4- “The Nephilim were on the earth in those days (pre-flood), and also afterward.....” Have you found a link in Scripture that gives us info on how/when/etc it was that the nephilim were here after the flood? Clearly they were. Scripture says so. That settles it. AND we see them throughout the historical books. (David ultimately wipes them out) But it bugs me that I can’t find the post-flood link in Scripture.

[@keepinmahprivacy9754]

I've never found anything in Scripture that specifically explains how or why they appear post-flood, only some non-Scriptural traditions on the subject. It's a tricky question for sure, for if the creation of the Nephilim is one of the reasons for the flood, then surely God allowing them to survive it seems unlikely. If they did not survive it, then that seems to imply that the "Sons of God" were able to create more Nephilim after the flood, which certainly seems strange, but I just don't see a more likely answer that fits the text. I think this is one of those mysteries that we're just going to have to scratch our heads over until God tells us the whole story.

[@cryptojihadi265]

How is it a mystery? If Fallen angels did it before, why wouldn't they do it again? Nothing new under the sun, what has been done will be done again. However, God ended it when He bound those angels who didn't maintain their abode to the pit in chains of darkness. But Revelations says the pit will be opened and as in the days of Noah, so it will be at the end. CERN is trying to open the pit again. They even have a statue of Shiva the destroyer or Apolyon in front. It's aso why the super hero movies and comics came out. Preparing people for these creatures again.

[@sammcrae8892]

The best I've ever been able to figure out is that (as another person here stated, is they (the Nephilim) either managed somehow to managed to breed again post flood, OR, one of Noah's family (daughter in law?) carried the genetics, or possibly even a (very) illegitimate child in utero to carry the line on and into the post flood world. This could be very wrong, I have no scriptures or apocrypha to go on , just an hypothetical musing. Of the two possibilities, I consider the first one more likely. Supernatural evil beings are notoriously tricky, deceptive and resourceful.

[@quadrasaurus-rex8809]

It’s a lie. He was deceived and confused into his position from that wonderful brain he had to display for us common idiot folk. That specific narrative is satanism. Pure and simple. It comes from the Kabbalah where Adam allegedly got it on with Lilith and another demon lady and that’s how we got the nephilim. It’s also in the toilet paper sometimes called the book of Enoch, which has a different account. Then there are the pagans who all need that to be true in order to justify their beliefs and remove culpability for their sins. So what you see, especially with the Greek orthodox people is a mixing of all these pagan origin points and tumbling them smooth to fit into the Bible. Heiser was an academic with humanist leanings and it shows. Wouldn’t be surprised if he was a Freemason to be honest. Wouldn’t be the first one they sent into our ranks, to confuse babes.

[@andyauten628]

Where are they mentioned post flood?

[@Bunni504]

So no one thought of that the Seth view during Jesus time.

[@BibliayFe]

No one

[@mattvanderford4920]

Read the Septuagint. They most certainly thought sons of God of gen 6 were different than the sons of God in job 1

[@ChristCenteredEschatology]

The writer of Luke did: Luke 3:38 "the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God."

[@heir_to_the_promise]

Genesis 4 ends with men beginning to call on the name of the Lord after Seth begot Enos. Chapter 5 is all genealogy and only MEN are mentioned. That’s how the Bible speaks. In Matthew 1, it’s mostly genealogy. And guess what? Only MEN are mentioned. Funny how in Matthew 1:6 it speaks of Uriah’s wife. Are we going to act like we don’t know her name? Why doesn’t Matthew give her name? Because the lineage of God only mentions the men. In verse 16 it mentions Mary. Hello! That’s Christ’s mother who miraculously gave birth to the Lord. Of course she’s there. I don’t know why Christians are so infatuated with demons having sex with women. Or was it angels? Everyone is still confused about that. They’re not the same. Angels obey God and do His will. Demons don’t. So who was it? Angels or demons? Or was it Godly men who got with Pagan women as the Bible constantly speaks of. Or at least the picture of not committing harlotry with the world (James 4:4)?

[@bradleydewaynepettit]

Because it is a valid interpretation with historical evidence to back it up.

[@Jastrząb2807]

From what i know the word translated as giants in bibles using the septuagint or vulgate (gigantes), in original hebrew it is the word nephilim which means to fall or could mean fallen ones. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@heir_to_the_promise]

@@bradleydewaynepettit Could you site me some sources of those "historical evidences?" I'd appreciate it.

[@larrymoore2571]

@@heir_to_the_promise Historical evidence is everywhere. Well, there's Bigfoot, Paul Bunyon and Blue, the vegetable loving Jolly Green Giant, not to be confused with the beanstalk Fe, Fi Fo Fum dude, oh, and Goliath 6' 6" (Septuagint).

[@larrymoore2571]

@@Jastrząb2807 Thank you for that important post. Nephilim in Hebrew = 'FALLEN ONES'? How could that possibly relate to what happened in Genesis 6? What could it mean when someone has 'FALLEN'? Psalm 53; "God looks down from heaven on the 'CHILDREN OF MEN' to see if there are any who understand, who seek after God. They have all 'FALLEN AWAY', together they have 'BECOME CORRUPT' There is 'NONE WHO DOES GOOD', not even one. Have 'THOSE WHO WORK EVIL' no knowledge, who 'EAT UP MY PEOPLE' as they eat bread, 'AND DO NOT CALL UPON GOD?" *'children of men (sons of men / 'DAUGTERS OF MEN') they have: * 'FALLEN AWAY' (FALLEN ONES?) * 'BECOME CORRUPT', NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THOSE WHO WORK EVIL, ... sounds like Gen. 6: ~ Genesis 6:5; Then the LORD saw that the 'WICKEDNESS OF MAN' was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was 'ONLY EVIL CONTINUALLY'. * "'EAT UP MY PEOPLE', 'AND DO NOT CALL UPON GOD?'" ...compare with: ~ Genesis 4:26 "And as for Seth, to him also a son was born; and he named him Enosh. 'THEN MEN BEGAN TO 'CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD'." * "EAT UP MY PEOPLE"? ... compare with: ~ Deuteronomy 14:1; “You are the 'sons of the LORD your God'. ... (Sons of God) For you are 'A PEOPLE HOLY TO THE LORD YOUR GOD', and the LORD has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth." I realize that some are intrigued with beautiful women and angels lovingly producing 450-foot-tall giant offspring, but that scenario conflicts with many passages of scripture.

[@scottthong9274]

I was really hesitant to buy in the heavenly beings view despite the many solid reasons. The last kicker that convinced me is "Why not just say so?" If Gen 6 is about the sons of Seth, why not just say so? If it's about polygamous kings, why not just say so? But if it's about heavenly beings, then Bene Elohim is EXACTLY the term to use.

[@Baltic_Hammer6162]

Yes, its pretty straight forward except for those who insist on filtering the Bible through their beloved doctrines. Almost all the established doctrines were formed by people who didn't really know the Bible context that well. Worse yet is the people who deliberately ignored parts or passages to shoehorn their own flawed opinions in "doctrine" and then present it as THE message of the Bible. More worse is the people who persecuted, tortured and killed others for daring to speak against their beloved flawed doctrines.

[@aschwinwesselius]

Baltic Hammer People get stuck on the notion angels do not have gender. This is still a mystery, but nonetheless all the tribes the Hebrews had to fight against before entering the promised land were decendants of these giants. That is all traceable from the bible itself.

[@JP4truth]

"Sons of God" is used three times in the Hebrew Bible. Hardly a big data set to draw conclusions from. The Sons of God refer to the believing line of Seth mixing with the unbelieving linage of Cain. Why is that more difficult to believe than genderless angles that don't marry (suggesting they don't have the ability to procreate), came to earth, seduced human women and had intercourse with them (which we don't know is possible) and produced half-angel-half-human offspring (which we don't know is possible)?

[@tonyf4991]

@@JP4truth actually "sons of God" is mentioned 5 times in the Tanakh. Twice in Genesis 6 and the last three times in Job. I have a Torah, Tanakh, Complete Jewish Bible as well as other Bibles. Let me tell you what they Jewish Bibles say for Genesis: Jewish Complete Bibles calls them "God's sons and men's daughters". The Torah says "sons of God and daughters of humans". The Tanakh says "divine beings and daughters of men".

[@XxIzzyxX07]

Many Christian don’t like this teaching because, it makes them feel uncomfortable, this is why some of them, twist the scripture to ease their feelings which is dangerous since they will interpret the scripture with a false interpretations of reading into the text that doesn’t say, ancient Jews know their scriptures and their languages better than we do when it comes to Genesis chapter 6 and many other passages which they understood to be angels who choose to rebel the original plan that God has sent them on the earth in second temple literature. And how come an angel able to have offspring when there spirits which is a good question? Well the answer is quite simple, they took upon flesh that’s how, check genesis chapter 18 when God visit Abraham with two angels and they ate the food that Abraham give them

[@paulharland7280]

If it had anything to do with how uncomfortable it was, they would have interpreted away that story about lot's daughters too wouldn't they? Furthermore if the Jews knew their scriptures so well, they would have recognized their Messiah. Now Genesis 6:7 says "And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them." If he meant to say he was going to destroy hybrids whom the Fallen Angels created he would have said that and he would have had no reason to feel sorrow over what he created. The fact that you have such a powerful need to lie about the people you disagree with demonstrates that your or interpretation is false.

[@archfriend]

I'm wondering if it's still worth reading St. Augustine? I have a couple of his books I've been meaning to get around to but not sure if I want to anymore.

[@Bibleguy89-uu3nr]

Yes it is for sure. Just don’t consider him an inspired author of Scripture.

[@alphonsofrett9599]

Where can I watch the full teaching on this.

[@andrewscotteames4718]

I would recommend his book The Unseen Realm. It covers this and many similar subjects in depth.

[@THEBLAZENATOR]

Not even nearly long enough ! This is such a tease! Why wouldnt you upload the whole thing? Please do so.

[@studywithmefolks5809]

If he did that, he would be giving God's word for free. He needs to make money on his courses as it states in 2 Corinthians 2:17.

[@nathanhamilton5078]

You can find most if not all his lectures in one form or another on youtube and his podcast. The naked bible podcast

[@prettycatlick4373]

His website covers all this jazz. Drmsh.com or read Unseen Realm.

[@Theggman83]

@@studywithmefolks5809 you're not entitled to another person's labors. Salvation is free and you can get a free Bible.

[@paulmaguire3155]

This is a bible college Seminar is shouldn’t be free 🙄 Do People get bible college Education for free?

[@charleyrobinson3579]

C'mion doc, we may have short attention spans but give us a break! Come to SOME {leading} conclusion and where to find MORE!

[@asmrjeweler9237]

The passage does NOT say the Nephilim were the product of the matings. It says they were on the earth in those days when the matings happened. It also doesn't say they were giants.

[@ShaileshDsz]

First time I heard this interpretation was from Sam Shamoun

[@quadrasaurus-rex8809]

But Mikey Heiser wants Star Wars so bad, he did so much work to make it work, lol. I think the angel sex thing is dumb and I think if true it kind of makes God a midwit. Also the flood was for violence, says it right there. Additionally, if that happened it would be recorded plainly, just like all the other supernatural events. Hit heavenly council teaching borders on blasphemy. I don’t have many nice things to say about him. Personally I view him as our budget version of the ancient aliens guy who ruined the history channel.

[@lilchristuten7568]

It doesn't say the nephelim were giants but it does imply that they were the offspring of these matings.

[@bobthomas1536]

⁠@@quadrasaurus-rex8809your right angel sex is weird. But the Sons of God are heavenly beings not angels. Job 38? So I guess you’re wrong? You sound to much like and a Darwinian augustinian. Who ruined the Bible.

[@Sam-yo3rm]

⁠@@quadrasaurus-rex8809ever wonder what's Jude 6 and 2 Peter 2:4 about ? Don't run your mouth over the Internet without any prerequisite knowledge of biblical studies. This guy is a Phd in Old Testament studies and does dissertation on such challenging topics, not a coward like you who doesn't dare to look into bible or other historical in wake of faith crisis. Why does then lot try to save the angels who came with embodied YHWH to save him from people of sodom who wanted to have sex with them ? In New Testament Jesus says in heaven there's no giving of marriage and you'd be like angels, not in the sense they're unable to but they're required to. Because even angels have free will , they can transgress just as humans can and that's what precisely happens in genesis 6

[@michaelschneider903]

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Two separate groups morning stars( angles) sons of God ( Holy men) God is the same today yesterday and forever.

[@malarkey_detected]

The Septuagint reads as angels instead of sons of God. Sons of God is found in the later masoretic texts

[@larrymoore2571]

@@malarkey_detected The Septuagint also messed up the genealogies in Genesis that would make Methuselah 955 years old when the flood came. Methuselah lived to be 969 years old so he must be an incredible swimmer. The Septuagint makes Goliath 6'6" tall, not the 9'6" of the Hebrew text. The LXX also included the word gigantes (giants) to the definition of Nephilim which the Hebrew defines as fallen ones. So, I will trust the Hebrew term sons of God in Job not the LXX 'angels'. ~ Job 1: 3-5; When the days of feasting had completed their cycle, Job would send and CONSECRATE them (Job's sons), rising up early in the morning and offering burnt offerings according to the number of them all; for Job said, “Perhaps my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts.” Thus, Job did continually. Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. The LORD said to Satan, “From where do you come?” Then Satan answered the LORD and said, “From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it.” (Summary) ~ Job and his sons (Godly men 'sons of God') are 'CONSECRATED', presenting themselves before God with burnt offerings (sacrifices) for forgiveness of sin. Satan was among them on earth. God asked Satan and he said he was on earth. The next four verses Satan describes Job’s hedge of protection, his blessings and riches etc. Satan has been there with Job. ~ This isn't angels presenting themselves to God in heaven, this is Job on earth, with his sons called ‘sons of God’. Consecrate: to induct a person into permanent office with a religious rite i.e., to ordain the office of Bishop. To make or declare sacred, to devote irrevocably to the worship of God by a solemn ceremony. ~ This next passage is NOT a historical account of creation but a poetic allegory with much symbolism unless God has the earth supported by a physical foundation and cornerstone. Where there is symbolism look for Jesus. ~ Job 38:6-7; Or who ‘LAID’ its 'CORNERSTONE'? 'WHEN' the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy? ~ What is the 'cornerstone' or who is the ‘cornerstone’? JESUS ~ 'WHEN' was the 'cornerstone' laid? AT PENTECOST WHEN THE CHURCH BEGAN. ~ Isaiah 28:16; "Therefore thus says the Lord GOD, “Behold, I am 'LAYING' in Zion a stone, a tested stone, A costly ‘CORNERSTONE’ for the foundation, firmly placed. He who believes in it will not be disturbed." ~ Zachariah 10:3-4; "For the LORD of hosts has visited His flock, the house of Judah and will make them like His majestic horse in battle. “From them 'WILL COME' the ‘CORNERSTONE’." ~ Who are the morning stars? ANGELS ~ Revelation 1:20; “As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven ‘STARS ARE ANGELS’ of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches." ~ Who are the sons of God shouted for joy? GODLY PEOPLE A word search in the Bible for ‘shout for joy, shouted for joy, shouting for joy’ reveals: 'people' shouting for joy 32 times, 'nature' (hills, meadows trees etc.) 2 times, and 'angels' shouting for joy 0 times (if Job 38 is angels, then that would be angels 1, people 31, nature 2).

[@lilchristuten7568]

​@@malarkey_detected The septuagent was translated with the myths of the jews in mind. The prevailing myth of the jews is that sons of God were angels and Elohiem referred to non humans(i.e. angels). That is why Hebrews refers back to psalms saying that Christ was made lower than the angels for the suffering of death. But the psalm is referring to man being made lower than God not angels for God made man in His image after His likeness. The name of the archangel Michael is a question, "who is like God?" the answer to that question is man. Michael is the archangel, the greatest of the angels but his name makes reference to the fact that not even he is like God but man is.

[@malarkey_detected]

Genesis 6 starts off saying that men were multiplying on the earth, not angels. The context of Genesis 6 is about the wickedness of men, not angels. The reason for flood was due to God's regret of making men, not angels.

[@cryptojihadi265]

There is literally zero logic behind anything you wrote or your assertions and conclusions.

[@malarkey_detected]

@@cryptojihadi265 not about logic, assertions or conclusions but what is clearly stated in scripture

[@cryptojihadi265]

@@malarkey_detected you quoted some scripture, but your conclusions are completely asinine and are not stated in scripture at all, let alone clearly. The fact that you think your assertions are actually stated in scripture is scary.

[@malarkey_detected]

@@cryptojihadi265 every point I made is laid out cleary in scripture, not sure what bible you're reading. Genesis 6:1, 5-7 Now when men began to multiply on the face of the earth and daughters were born to them, ... Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great upon the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was altogether evil all the time. And the LORD regretted that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the LORD said, “I will blot out man, whom I have created, from the face of the earth-every man and beast and crawling creature and bird of the air-for I am grieved that I have made them.” Don't have time to argue, believe as you want.

[@cryptojihadi265]

@@malarkey_detected It's that you think any of your arguments prove the Nephilim were the offspring of Seth's seed and Cain's seed as opposed to the fallen angels. Yes, it starts out talking about men multiplying on the earth but then it says the sons of God saw the daughters of these men were beautiful and took some of them as wives. It then says that when these sons of God had sex with the daughters of men, that they produced the Nephilim, who were the men of old, the men of renowned. There is nothing to indicate anywhere in the Od Testament that the sons of men would just be the seed of Cain and the sons of God would be seed of Seth. Also, it makes no sense that the offspring of the children of Cain and Seth would be extra special men of renowned or create giants. But if there were a mix breed of angels and men, then yes, they would certainly be men of renowned. Also why would God specifically mention that the mixture of the sons of Seth and Cain would continue AFTER the flood. As if it's something special to note that believers and non believers would have children after the flood. Which, that one statement alone blows away the theory as the lineage of Cain was wiped out in the flood. So how could any of his offspring mix with Seth's(Noah's) offspring. After the flood, there was only Seth's offspring. Finally the idea that Seth's offspring were godly is debunked by the story of the flood. Only Noah and his immediate family were righteous enough to be saved from it. So again the idea that Sons of God are the righteous sons of Seth and the sons of men are the wicked sons of Cain, doesn't make any sense. They were all corrupt except for Noah.

[@KingdomIsNow]

Extra-Biblical texts agree with M. Heifer. The Dead Sea Scrolls writings further expound on concealed mysteries of the Bible. They are absolutely fascinating. These texts have revolutionised my Christian Faith. The Nag Hammadi texts are the same.

[@madhavaraogideon3281]

Apart from the 66 books ( which are the Books of the Bible ) nothing can be taken from outside to support the answer men give. In Genesis we read Chater 6: 5,6,7. And God saw the wickedness of Man ( not angel) was great in the earth , and that every Imagination of the thoughts of his heart was evil continually . And it repented the LORD that He had made man on the earth , and it grieved Him at His heart. And the LORD said , I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth ; both man , and beast, and the creeping thing , and the fowls of the air ; for it repented Me that I have made them ". God destroyed man - all humans , beasts, creeping things , and fowls of the air except Noah & his family containing 8 souls in the great Ark he commanded Noah to build. No angels mentioned.

[@davidboney9093]

I have found my personal research on this passage of scripture does not line up with most church folks or even the Strongs Concordance. The Hebrew makes this passage of scripture come alive with so much revelation. Too many ancient writings from every area of the world confirm the Hebrew writings.

[@dwtolar]

The sons of God are not fallen angels or demons, this is ridiculous and blasphemous toward our God and Savior. No, it wasn't "Sethites," although it seems that there were more of the offspring of Seth that walked with God. The whole of scripture is clear that only those who walk with God in the Spirit are the sons of God. However, when these men (not spirit beings devoid of flesh and blood) began gathering harems and setting their eyes and desires on this life, in an already fallen world, they fell as well, and it was they who were the Nephilim, or fallen ones. While there were giants in the Old Testament, the word nephilim only means fallen one, not giant. Quit reading extra-biblical text into God's inspired word. Demons did not mate with humans and that is NOT the reason for the flood. Scripture is plain, God destroyed Earth with a flood because of the sin of MAN.

[@alltimeislikethepresent]

You wrote: _"The sons of God are not fallen angels or demons, this is ridiculous and blasphemous toward our God and Savior."_ Amen. Also, by claiming that angels married women, errorists like Heiser are leaguing themselves with the God-haters of the LGBTQ+ community in their opposition to God's institution of marriage. Whereas God says that all marriage is between a man and a woman, they are saying _"Not so!"_

[@chuimataisinglai8235]

Micheal John deny your argument in this passage We will love to hear if you both have conversations in this passage

[@whodeytko]

All of these snippets are from his new school “the awakening school of theology”. You must enroll to get the full lecture.

[@MrIrrepressible]

shouldn't he be giving this information away for free?

[@Theggman83]

@@MrIrrepressible no, salvation is free. And you can get a free Bible from almost any church... But if you wanna learn what the scholars know, you gotta pay for their time and energy.

[@hezekiahtumai2624]

@@Theggman83 awesome response praise God

[@Ade2bee]

To be honest with you I’ve just gone back to Genesis and I never presumed this, I never thought this, but perhaps I’ve been also taking another material as well all my approach has been different

[@staal2691]

@@Theggman83 that’s interesting. Paul - One of the greatest theologians taught for free.

[@WayTruthLife316]

"CHURCH" is supposed to be a gathering of those who love JESUS worshiping together giving GLORY to GOD purposefully, TOGETHER. It's not BIBLE STUDY. But in this time, it probably ought to be. The focus on showing up once in a while and singing and clapping is ridiculous. I love JESUS. My reason for my hope in HIM is JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF, He's revealed Himself to me very clearly, as He does to ALL (ROMANS 1:20 AND PSALM 19 explains this CLEARLY: and to those who can't SIN because of how He made them, or their purpose here ending before they can reach an point of understanding what good and evil are and therefore can not sin because to do so one must know a thing is evil and do it anyway) and once I stopped denying that fact and embraced the TRUTH about MYSELF being a SINNER in need of SALVATION from death and hell which, is SEPARATION FROM GOD and that's a big problem when GOD is LOVE and EVERYTHING GOOD! It means DEATH=SEPARATION FROM LOVE, FROM EVERYTHING GOOD, FOREVER, BY YOUR OWN CHOICE MADE WITH YOUR GOD-GIVEN FREE WILL FOR GOD'S WILL IS THAT ALL SHOULD BE SAVED BUT BECAUSE HE LOVES US AND RESPECTS OUR FREE WILL, IF YOU REJECT HIM, REJECT THE TRUTH, REJECT HIS LOVE AND EVERYTHING GOOD, REJECT HIM AND HIS SON'S SACRIFICE FOR YOU ON THE CROSS UNTO DEATH, THEN HE WILL ALLOW YOU TO FACE THE CONSEQUENCES FOR YOUR CHOICE. HE LOVES YOU. HE WANTS NO ONE TO GO TO HELL WHICH HE MADE FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS FELLOW FALLEN ANGELS WHO, EVEN IF OFFERED SALVATION, WOULD SPIT ON IT. BY REJECTING GOD YOU DO THE SAME THING THOUGH YOU MAY NOT SEE IT THAT WAY JUST YET, IT'S THE TRUTH. I WAS A WRETCHED CREATURE. BUT JESUS SAVED ME. I NOW WANT ONLY TO GLORIFY HIM. HE'S LOVE AND EVERYTHING GOOD. WHEN LOVE AND EVERYTHING GOOD IS GLORIFIED ABOVE ALL ELSE, THEN ALL LOVE, AND ARE LOVED, FOR LOVE, WITH LOVE, THROUGH LOVE, TO THE GLORY OF LOVE FOREVER WHICH IS PERFECTION, A PERFECT CIRCLE OF ETERNAL LOVE AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THE LORD'S PLAN LEADS TO. DO YOU WANT TO BE PART OF THAT? OR DO YOU WANT TO CHOOSE SELF OVER SELFLESSNESS? IT'S YOUR CHOICE. I LOVE YOU ENOUGH TO GIVE YOU THE TRUTH. I'M PRAYING FOR YOU ALWAYS AS I PRAY FOR ALL WHO ARE HIS AND IF ULTIMATELY YOU DECIDE YOU AREN'T HIS AND THAT'S YOUR CHOICE, I TAKE COMFORT IN THE TRUTH: THAT THE LORD WILL USE YOU FOR HIS GLORY, TO LEAD OTHERS TO SALVATION, IN HIM, TO HIS GREAT GLORY, NONETHELESS. GOD BLESS YOU AND YOURS IN JESUS' MIGHTY NAME THAT YOU MAY YET BE SAVED TRULY, AND ALL THOSE WHOSE LIVES YOU TOUCH. AMEN. MUCH LOVE IN JESUS' MIGHTY NAME SHALOM PRAISE BE TO OUR TRIUNE GOD ALMIGHTY FOREVER AND EVER 👊🥰✝️❤️‍🔥🙏🕊️

[@michaelschneider903]

Hosea 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God. God is a revealer not a concealer John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Hosea 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.. And the truth keeps coming. Sons of God represents Holy men while the daughters of man represents the off spring of Cain. The issue God had was with man not angels because the Holy men mingled with ungodly women hence mixing good with evil. I will keep praying for those that are lead astray with false doctrine.

[@davidheaton6206]

And they created unholy children? Paul specifically refutes this when he talks about married couples, with one being a believer andthe other non-believer. The children are not unholy

[@clydedisney6569]

Dr. Heiser, if Adam and Eve had not eaten of the forbidden fruit, could they have had children? If so, could children grandchildren etc. have lived there? Would they have been immortal?

[@block9390]

Wow, you just gave me a great thought to ponder! I have spent countless hours studding those first few chapter of Genesis and have concluded that Adam and Eve were indeed immortal by reason that they could not die unless they ate of "the tree', of which God told them that they would die after partaking of it and that death only came after "the fall". This I understood but did not consider or entertain the notion that they could procreate as immortal beings. So many questions about those first few chapters.

[@marvalice3455]

The order to be fruitful and fill the earth comes before exile go from the garden, so scripture implies a resounding yes

[@Ty-Things]

I think they could have the way Jesus was born

[@sirweddings]

You should do an apologetic video about why we shouldn't become Eastern Orthodox.

[@cv4809]

Why do you think we shouldn't be, considering that is the oldest church

[@sirweddings]

@@cv4809 I'm in the process of becoming Orthodox. However, I respect Dr. Heiser and would like to know why he's not Orthodox.

[@christyjia8449]

@J Redden I don't think he would do an apologetics video about "which denomination is the correct denomination." In one of his videos, he was asked that question and he essentially said he believes no denomination is entirely correct. (This is a common modern-day Protestant perspective, with its relativism.) I'm a former Protestant who chose to become Orthodox 11 years ago, but I enjoy deepening my knowledge of the Bible and the Church from all scholars who have meaningful research to share. That's why I find Dr. Heiser's work so interesting. P.S. -- Congratulations on your catechumenship. May the Holy Trinity bless you as you prepare to enter the Orthodox Church. +++

[@isaiahkerstetter3142]

Jay Dyer has entered the chat*

[@isaiahkerstetter3142]

James White has left the chat*

[@manbearpig3507]

please correct me if I'm wrong, is he saying the Nephilim is reference to the apkallus or sages created by Enki, also why does the tanakh say nobles instead of god when it clearly says god or Elohim in the Hebrew. Fairly new to biblical and ancient near east studies but appears the majority of the Pentateuch is heavily based on earlier Akkadian and Sumerian myths

[@marvalice3455]

Or at least exists in a common context to Mesopotamian stories

[@michaelshannon6558]

The OT is basically a polemic against the myths of the nations surrounding the Israelites. That’s why you see their “influence” on the text. For a full treatise of the supernatural worldview of the Bible, read The Unseen Realm: Recovering the Supernatural Worldview of the Bible, and Reversing Hermon: Enoch, the Watchers, and the Forgotten Mission of Jesus.

[@sammcrae8892]

Yes, true, but that entire near east area and era had a common world view, and similar mythos. As Heiser says elsewhere, the sons of God (what we consider the old pagan gods) were part of the heavenly court or counsel, that were in charge of the nations, ruling the world FOR God as vice regents of sorts. (See the Prince of Persia reference in Daniel for scriptural example.) They just got out of control and went after the daughters of men. This is understandable, after all, God made them very desirable. It's also apparently the main cause other than the fall of man in Eden, of most of the troubles in the world, and the continued spiritual wickedness and warfare in the created universe. What's amazing about Heiser's teachings is it shows WHY men worshipped "false" gods. It was because they were real. It shows that there was something behind the pagan gods. Whether men called them Zeus, Apollo, Thor, Moloch, Baal, or whatever the local people and culture called them,, and explains the common nature of them across time and the nations. It also, for me anyway, makes the Bible more understandable in that context as a documentary of the world and the supernatural reality behind our material world. Could also be totally wrong, but it DOES make sense! The only thing that doesn't, is why didn't God just poof them out of existence if they were such a problem? Who knows?! There's a lot of mysteries in the story that we will probably never know the answers to in this world. Luckily, researchers like Dr. Heiser, archaeologists, and scholarship in ancient languages and cultures are continually giving us new information. Also, while fascinating, NONE of this makes a difference in the gospel message, or in the means of salvation. Glory to God in the highest! Jesus Christ is Lord! 🙏✝️🙏

[@shaquillekiragu]

​@@sammcrae8892Brother you explained this all so perfectly, and Amen, none of these issues take away from the main thing, the gospel. God bless you 🙏🏿

[@octaviojimenez5832]

If we apply the Occam´s razor to this dichotomy, your view, which is also mine, prevails.

[@artgoon8747]

Man you don't know how many people I had to convince of this brought up scriptures and they still don't believe that the sons of God were angels

[@larrymoore2571]

That is because the Bible NEVER says the 'sons of God are angels. The opposite is true the sons of God are NEVER angels, but dozens of scriptures say sons of God are Godly people.. Jesus said angels never marry, He's God He should know. Genesis 1: All creation reproduces after their own kind, angels and mankind are vastly different, even if they could somehow copulate there would be no offspring. Jesus speaks of the days of Noah the people were eating drinking marrying and given in marriage, but no mention of the angel/women/ hybrids by Jesus or anyone else!

[@bjrgstre-mauger5398]

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.

[@alltimeislikethepresent]

@@bjrgstre-mauger5398 Job 1:6 says nothing about the sons of God being angels.

[@fernandocuriel124]

Because they’re pure fundamentalist and stubborn.

[@alltimeislikethepresent]

@@fernandocuriel124 _"Because they’re pure fundamentalist and stubborn."_ Stubborn against agreeing with irrational, sensationalist, anti-Bible thinking. The sons of God were not angels.

[@CherubEros]

I thought the nephilim were the sons of Elohim: Heracles, Perseus and others, and they were “giants” of their time and equal in their brutality.

[@lilchristuten7568]

The nephilim are the children of men who at one time walked with God in faith, but who married unbelieving wives who lead them astray. They were called mighty men of renown. They we not actually described as giants, the only reference to them being giants is the evil report given by the spies sent to scout out the promised land. Hercules and perseus and the others like them in mythology are based upon these individuals due to the peoples that they come from, adapting the stories of the flood and what happened before the flood to their own religions.

[@matthewkay1327]

This seems weaker now tbh. Sons of God means women as well I reckon. Nephilim are just great men, heroes. Anyway open to both sides.

[@radman6047]

The Bible is a supernatural book, not a natural book. Too many church (leaders) love to put God in a box because they see the scriptures through natural eyes. The evil people who run our world do understand the supernatural and they worship the host of heaven and derive their power from them. To defeat an enemy you have to know who they are. Most of us do not. Thumbs up Michael!

[@Baltic_Hammer6162]

Dean Braxton has mentioned the "putting God in a box" in some of his many talks/sermons. During his NDE he saw God exploded his (Dean's) boxes. Natural man cannot begin to imagine the power of God's supernatural power/abilities. So our tiny little pathetic human brains try to "contain" God within our limited or warped beliefs and understandings. Boxes are heavily used by legalists and their tons of man-made doctrines AND rules.

[@radman6047]

@@Baltic_Hammer6162 The I AM is the creator of all things. Therefore it is impossible to limit His actions and power. He can do anything except lie and fail.

[@TheRealTenTigers]

How can Christians believe the word of God yet deny the existence of the supernatural? The entire narrative is supernatural that's why secular struggle with it. I think its one of the things that kept me out of the body of Christ for so long. Fortunately Jesus specializes in lost causes like me. Christians: Jonah was swallowed by a whale and spent three days underwater and survived to preach. Also some Christians: No WAY angels could or would breed with humans! It's not physically possible!

[@tonyf4991]

Sadly this is true. I blame teachings. People turn from the supernatural aspect of the Bible, not because it's not hard to comprehend though. But because they twist passages in their head, intermingle multiple verses in order to try and create a singular verse that's just spread out. Then those people pass on those ideas to students and it continues to get passed down until the Bible is pretty much a jumbled mess of hypocrisy solely because they do not understand what they are learning or what they are teaching. And this is all coming from a Christian.

[@fernandocuriel124]

🎯 BINGO! You Absolutely Nailed It!

[@alphonsofrett9599]

Thank again for sharing.

[@Baysunrise]

Wait you can’t just stop, where’s the rest of this?

[@DRMSH]

This is part of the Unseen Realm 101 awakeningschooloftheology.com/

[@eisenhower9069]

Where's the Continuation?

[@debbiecooper3661]

Even Jesus said ..I come for Isaac only .

[@1Taylee]

Wow. This is a powerful clip

[@tryemc3026]

What was in it for you ?

[@1Taylee]

@@tryemc3026 I don’t know but I thought it was really good. Really really amazing in my opinion.

[@validcore]

2:52. What a joke. So If you're not reading other material but are connecting it to the chapter right before it than you're "out of context" ???

[@khanburger3610]

that’s what he said.

[@larrymoore2571]

This video starts off by saying any study of Genesis 6 is incomplete or missing if ignorant of the context that is the Mesopotamian religion and Apkallu story. RED FLAG... RUN! The context for Gen 6 is the preceding 2 chapters of the BIBLE followed by the entirety of the Old Testament. Scripture defines scripture not weird books that someone is trying to sell. The text of Genesis 6:3 defines the sons of God in Genesis 6:2.

[@25dollarbill24]

_"This video starts off by saying any study of Genesis 6 is incomplete or missing if ignorant of the context that is the Mesopotamian religion and Apkallu story. RED FLAG... RUN!"_ Amen! (Well, amen to running from _believing_ what he's saying, but not necessarily to running from listening carefully to what he's saying for the purpose of refuting it.) One of the "Angels married women!" cultists told me that if you believe only what the Bible says about ancient times, and do not believe what extra-Biblical sources like that ridiculous forgery, the so-called "book of Enoch" (and its promoters, such as Heiser) says about ancient times, you will remain wholly ignorant about ancient times. That's a blatant denial that God's Word is a revelation of truth about ancient times! To add, then, another RED FLAG to your valuable advice: when someone who professes to be a Bible-believing Christian finds he/she is pushing a popular doctrine (such as "Angels married women!") that many other Bible-believing Christians reject -- and that many openly non- and anti-Christians love and proclaim all over the internet -- then he/she ought at the very least begin to look more carefully at said doctrine, inquiring whether it is really in accordance with Bible truth.

[@masterofshadows8904]

Beware - OP comment is of the Synogogue of Satan and is attempting deception

[@ChristCenteredEschatology]

Amen! the context is clear. People have to go outside the Bible when they hold a view that is not Biblical.

[@HolyTerminator]

lol than you would be surprised to know that the authors of the Bible use extra biblical sources too. Contextual background evidence can absolutely be outside of the Bible itself. Don’t undermine yourselves. Think about why we might trust the Bible in the first place. If your answer is because “the Bible says so” then you’ve lost your epistemic grounding.

[@davidromisch6430]

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God and Mesopotamian history and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:” 2 Tim 3.16

[@Beleeuer]

It's not a deeply flawed viewed. I wrote a paper on it. It's not angels.

[@EternalLifeNews]

Angels are spirit beings (Hebrews 1:7, 14), Jesus Himself said that “spirits do not have flesh and bones” (Luke 24:39). Jesus also said that “angels neither marry, nor are given in marriage” (Luke 20:34-36; Matthew 22:29-30; Mark 12:24-25). In order for angels to reproduce they must have flesh and DNA, and DNA is an organic material that is found in flesh and bones. Pay attention to what is taking place in the Book of Genesis CHAPTERS 1-6. Yes, angels are referred to as the “sons of God” in Job 1:6; Job 2:1, & Job 38:7 because God is their “Father” through creation. Does that mean that the sons of God in Genesis 6 are also angels because they are in the Book of Job? NO! Were looking at verses in Genesis, NOT the Book of Job. Try not to interpret Genesis 6:1-4 with other books in the Bible. Stick with just the Book you are reading and studying. Pay attention to the context. Adam is also a “son of God”, created by God, made in the image of God (Genesis 1:26; Genesis 5:1-3). Adam walked and talked with God (Genesis 3:8-10). Genesis chapter 3 tells about the fall of man. Genesis chapter 4 gives the story of Cain and Abel and follows with the genealogical descent from Cain to Lamech. Then in Genesis 4:26, Scripture says, beginning with Seth “then began men to call upon the name of the LORD". Genesis Chapter 5 is called “the book of the genealogy of Adam”, it starts with God’s creation of Adam and Adam’s line continued through Noah. You can see thus far, just using the Book of Genesis that some men looked to God and some men did not. In Genesis Chapter 6, we see “the sons of God” (men who called upon the name of the LORD) intermarrying with “the daughters of men” (ungodly women). God says in Genesis 6:3, “My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh:”. [Remember, man is flesh, and angels are spirit beings] And in Genesis 6:7, “I will destroy man [flesh, not hybrids, not spirit beings] whom I have created from the face of the earth;”. The giants of Genesis 6:4 were human descendants of Adam and Eve, not hybrids ( Acts 17:26; Genesis 2:23; Genesis 3:20). Giants again descended from Ham, but that's another Bible Study. In conclusion, all living Earthly things have the same DNA ingredients in them. Angels are not made of the same ingredients. God created the heavens and the Earth...two separate entities with separate characteristics. DNA is earthy.

[@CRoadwarrior]

You make a very good point. You must have been watching my video series. LOL.

[@EternalLifeNews]

@@CRoadwarrior I haven't but now I plan to. Thank you!

[@EternalLifeNews]

@@iraborpeter The Lord may have given you that instruction, but the LORD (All Caps) hasn't given it to me. The LORD knows my name!

[@CRoadwarrior]

@@EternalLifeNews Well, here is the series I started on the topic: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eqfTooiYYpKciKs&ab_channel=CRoadwarrior. I go into detail as to why the "fallen angel" view of Gen. 6 has too many problems to be a viable and correct interpretation of the passage. One of the problems I explain is the fact that we have NO evidence in the Bible that the angel kind can mate with the human kind. In later videos I also pointed out that we don't even have proof that angels can mate BETWEEN THEMSELVES, let alone with an entirely different species as humans.

[@EternalLifeNews]

@@CRoadwarrior Thank you! I have watched the first two already.

[@g.alistar7798]

So....for 3500 +/- years everyone but a tiny portion of the OT (those living close to or in Mesopotamia) and virtually ALL church age believers for centuries, have not interpreted this Genesis passage correctly. Sounds a bit dogmatic.... love, respect and listen to M. Heiser’s work all the time. In Lewis S Chafer’s Systematic Theology he discusses both the descendants of Seth viewpoint as well as the supernatural “fallen angel” viewpoint. Leans towards the supernatural but in his conclusion, notes that either views make it clear this was an attack on the genetic line of Jesus Christ. Perhaps that fundamental is more important ?

[@tonyf4991]

Well the issue with saying either was an attack on the genetic line of Jesus would be false. If the sons of God were human (which Scripture shows they aren't), and they wanted to attack Jesus' genetic line, they would have killed all believers of God, making their tainted beings his only genetic line, which the Bible clearly shows is not the case. Noah even preached to the people, but they did nothing to him. As for the fallen angels, they had nothing to do with Satan. They willingly left heaven because they gave in to lust of human women. That also wasn't an attack on Jesus' genetic line.

[@g.alistar7798]

@@tonyf4991 strong on dogmatic statements here but weak on citations, references or biblical evidence. Emotion can fool everyone … we see, think and do what we want rather than the truth.

[@tonyf4991]

@@g.alistar7798 don't call me out for no biblical evidence when you have not given any either pal.

[@g.alistar7798]

@@tonyf4991 I noted: Lewis S. Chafer’s “Systematic Theology”… loaded with eight Volumes of biblical references. He was the first President of Dallas Theological Seminary and as competent in Hebrew, Aramaic as well as Koine Greek. Importantly, Chafer had the full resources and support of the Seminary staff, literature and superb library. Strongly recommended…..a life changing biblical reference. Simply put, Chafer was a man of God and imminent Bible scholar. May God bless.

[@tonyf4991]

@@g.alistar7798 and that's Scripture....how exactly?

[@ethanpatrick]

So you gave us the “what” (which was very long but interesting) but what about the “why” which is suggested in the title of this video? Why is it not referring to the sons of Seth, but more importantly who IS it referring to? I came to this video for these answers =)

[@TheVaccineIsthe666]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/pHu5kHWJgLGFgrc

[@adrianjurge9414]

Mike has a longer presentation on this topic on youtube. Check it out

[@westside1158]

This is the only verse that's so. descriptive and clear and yet many pastor's debate this verse. I knew a pastor dint want to believe it so badly that he convinced his wife that it was sons of man and whenever someone asked him about he would angrily argue with you. Then he quote we shouldn't bring quarrels against each other. A lie shouldn't be thaught he did not want be corrected and instead of just leaving the verse alone he teaches that's sons of God is wrong. I just want to correct him so badly

[@larrymoore2571]

@westside1158 What if your Pastor was adamantly correcting a false teaching that distorts the word of God? 'Sons of God' (bene-ha-Elohim) are always angels? FALSE, this term is NEVER angels! ~ Hebrews 1: 3-5; “When He (Jesus) had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a 'MORE EXCELLENT NAME' than they (What name is more excellent than that of the angels?). For to which of the angels did He ever say, “YOU ARE MY SON, (Son is the name more excellent than the angels, so why do people insist that 'sons of God' are angels?) ~ Gen 6:1-3; Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, that the 'SONS OF GOD' saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. Then the LORD said, “My 'SPIRIT' shall not 'ABIDE' WITH MAN FOREVER, because he also is flesh; however, his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” Was God's 'SPIRIT' 'ABIDING' with man then? What is God's definition of 'sons of God'? ~ Romans 8:14; "For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God." ~ Deuteronomy 14: 1-2; “You are the sons of the LORD your God; you shall not cut yourselves nor shave your forehead for the sake of the dead. For you are a holy people to the LORD your God, and the LORD has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth." ~ Galatians 4:6; Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” ~ Matthew 5:9; “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." ~ Ephesians 1:5; "He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will," ~ Romans 8:19; "For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God." ~ Galatians 3:26; "For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus." Moses did not write Job, but he did write Genesis, Moses always refers to angels as 'Ma'lak', not 'bene-ha-Elohim' (sons of God).

[@westside1158]

@@larrymoore2571 My argument is why did he called them sons of God when they where about to do a horrific act. My children slept with basically granddaughters that's horrible he wouldn't call them childrens of God. No he called them sons of God because there literal his children and angels are known to do bad things. In the new testament he call the Pharisees children of Satan cause they where to do evil things not children of God

[@larrymoore2571]

@@westside1158 ~ God's people (sons of God) that had at one time called upon the name of the Lord (Genesis 4:26), saw that pagan women (daughters of men) were beautiful, they 'fell away' and they gave in to the lust of the eyes and the lust of the flesh to the point of rejecting God and turning to idolatry. This scenario happened continuously throughout the Old Testament. Here is an example of what happened: ~ Deuteronomy 7:3-4; "Furthermore, you shall not intermarry with them; you shall not give your daughters to their sons, nor shall you take their daughters for your sons. For they will turn your sons away from following Me to serve other gods; Then the anger of the Lord will be kindled against you, and He will quickly destroy you." Who or what are the Nephilim? There are only two places in the Bible that mentions Nephilim and not much said about them. Nephilim Hebrew definition: 'FALLEN ONES', some say it’s fallen angels, others say people that have ‘FALLEN AWAY’ from seeking God. ~ Psalm 53:2-3; “God looks down from heaven on the children of man to see if there are any who understand, who seek after God. They have all ‘FALLEN AWAY’; together they have become corrupt; there is none who does good, not even one.”

[@larrymoore2571]

@westside1158 My issue with the angel/women/hybrid claim is that it diminishes God's omnipotence. ~ Genesis 1; God imposed His natural law (that He repeats 11 times), that ALL creation reproduces after their ‘OWN KIND’. Angels and mankind are vastly different ‘KINDS’. Man is mortal and flesh, angels are immortal, and ‘ALL’ are spirits; ~ Hebrews 1:14; "Are they (angels) not 'ALL' ministering 'SPIRITS', sent out to render service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation? God is the Creator that brings life to ALL things. Who is in control of creation angels or God? ~ Isaiah 44:24; "Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, ‘WHO FORMED YOU FROM THE WOMB’: “I am the Lord, who made ‘ALL THINGS’, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself," ~ Colossians 1:15-17; "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-all things have been created through Him ‘AND FOR HIM’. He is before all things, and ‘IN HIM ALL THINGS HOLD TOGETHER." ~ How can people justify that God would suspend His natural law He imposed in Genesis 1, He then would create and breathe life into these hybrids, and then be grieved in His heart that he made ‘MAN’, not angels or hybrids, but MAN? ~ Genesis 6:5-6; “Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of ‘MAN’ was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. The LORD was sorry that He had made ‘MAN’ on the earth, and He was ‘GRIEVED’ in His heart.” ~ Summary: Are we to believe angels that rebelled against God, were allowed to marry and impregnate women and God breathed life into these hybrids knowing that they might taint the bloodline of Jesus, so God would have to destroy all life on earth, but He was grieved in His heart because He had made ‘MAN’? This is an absurdity that defies logic.

[@westside1158]

@@larrymoore2571 Alright fine you proved your point I guess reality got away from me

[@TheGiantSlayer1]

gen 4 : " ... Then people began to call upon the name of the Lord." People began to call on God- so you now have two groups, those who are calling on God and secular. The secular - like Cain. Its nothing grand to say that the sons of God are all male - IN THE CONTEXT THAT THEY WERE TAKING WIVES- not entering into lesbian relationships, of course they'd be male. The group of males of faith- sons of God- took wives ( something scripture states angels do not do) and intermingled that of faith with secularism. This has been a pattern throughout Israel's history as a point of contention and downfall. Bible says that these Nephilem, bullies/tyrants/ "giants" were men, and that they were already in the world before and after the sons of God took wives from the daughters of men based on beauty. The text says God was angry at MAN, not angels. He is angry over the VIOLENCE, not the offspring of angels and women. Why would God punish men if angels mated with women- why would man be at fault for that? Women and angel= destroy man because of ....violence? The men of renown, the bullies, the tyrants, fits in the mark of Cain as God marked him for killing a man therefore all would know (renown) that this man has a big reputation ( giant). His son killed a man and a boy so he was twice the murder of Cain so that would be another man of renown. As for the idea that we must hold to the popular original view at the time, that only takes us so far as the Jews didn't see Jesus as Messiah- should we adopt that since that is how they saw it? NO! We should put in the work and see what the totality of scripture states. Scripture says Angels were cast in the pit awaiting judgement, not willfully entered into marriage with women.

[@larrymoore2571]

Very articulate and contextually correct with the pre-flood theme. It seems people crave this narrative and speculate on what is never written in God's word. This really baffles me why they do not want to see the clear contextual meaning of Genesis. Who are the 'sons of God' in Genesis 6:2? The answer is in Genesis 6:3. ~ Genesis 6:2-3; ... the ‘sons of God’ saw that the ‘daughters of men’ were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. ‘Then’ the LORD said, “My ‘Spirit’ shall not ‘ABIDE’ with ‘MAN’ forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless, his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” Why does God immediately proclaim that He is removing His ‘Spirit’ from ‘MAN’? Was God’s Spirit ‘abiding’ with ‘MAN’ then? Yes, or else God would not remove His Spirit from 'MAN'. What is God's definition of the 'sons of God'? ~ Romans 8:14; "For all who are being led by the Spirit of God are 'sons of God'."

[@holdingpattern245]

I think the sons of God are not Sethites, but are human or very close to it. Genesis 6 doesn't say that the giants were the offspring, it just sets the scene in the days of giants. And how could humans make children with non-humans? The sons of God also seemingly lived in Babel, because the number of tongues would have become the number of nations, which is equal the number of sons of God plus one in Deuteronomy 32:8. Jesus also called the sons of God men in John 10:34-36.

[@rizenofficial2369]

And ham's sin after the flood is how I believe these giants return.. not just cause Noah's son's were all blessed by thier father but also maybe Canaan is the result of a sinful act 🤔

[@nmbr1son64]

What was Ham's sin? Why wasn't HE cursed instead of Canaan? People speculate about these things. Some even use the passage to justify slavery.

[@rizenofficial2369]

@@nmbr1son64 possibly the intercourse with his mother..when you break down it down biblically the nakedness of Noah can also contribute to the nakedness of His wife

[@nmbr1son64]

@@rizenofficial2369 so Canaan was the product of Ham and his mother? Ham already had a wife. The context of the passage doesn't infer that.

[@rizenofficial2369]

@@nmbr1son64 He did have a wife he had other sons but this here must've have been a rebellious act of insest. There had to be intent in why he took advantage of his father's drunkenness. Check this vid out kzbin.info/www/bejne/nmmXo4WNm75nd5o

[@spaceanarchist1107]

What about the myth that Cain's father was the serpent, which meant that Cain was the first nephilim and his descendants therefore would also have been nephilim?

[@DRMSH]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/j3aYYnp3lLmfhK8

[@lilchristuten7568]

It's a lie period. So is the belief that the nephilim are the children of angels.

[@cryptojihadi265]

The idea that the sons of God are the sons of Seth is flat out absurd. It's amazing how good Christian scholars are at twisting logic and scripture to get their point across.

[@alltimeislikethepresent]

You wrote: _"The idea that the sons of God are the sons of Seth is flat out absurd."_ The un-Biblical claim that angels married women is false. Those making it show that they are in league with the God-haters of the LBGTQ+ crowd in opposing marriage, which God says is only between a man and a woman. Besides, nowhere does the Bible ever use the phrase "sons of God" to refer to angels.

[@cryptojihadi265]

@@alltimeislikethepresent LOL your response is exactly the kind one would expect from those who think the sons of God refer to the line of Seth. It's full of beyond the pale leaps of logic. No one is saying they married them, it just says they had sex with them. But even if they did actually marry them, so what? Acknowledging that wicked people or entities do wicked things, hardly means you support it. So, to say we are in league with the alphabet people just because we acknowledge that people have sex outside of God's design is absurd. You do know that BIBLE itself talks about sodomy and lesbian sex. So, by your asinine logic, the BIBLE is now in league with the alphabet group. LOL. That's just how stupid your line of thinking is. And yes, it's clear in the OT, ONLY angelic beings are described as the sons of God. To read any of those passages any other way is almost as insane as your initial comment about being in league with the alphabet people. Try reading Psalms 82. Where He says, I said you are gods, sons of the most high, nevertheless you will die like men. Now why would God say that MEN would die like MEN? That's beyond stupid. He's clearly talking about angels. Also, Genesis 6 is clearly talking about angelic beings as well. Otherwise, WHY would the sons of Seth having children with the sons of Cain produce special beings that are men of renowned? If there is something so special about the line of Seth that they would be called sons of God, then surely THEIR offspring would be REALLY special. But the Bible says the only notable offspring are between the sons of God and the sons of men. That only makes sense if the sons of God are not talking about men. Unless you want to posit that God's people mating with sinful people produces superior offspring. Also, IF the sons of God refer to Seth's line and the Nephilim are the offspring of Seth's line and Cain's line, then how in the hell do the Nephilim show up AFTER the flood. Only the Seth's line survived the flood, so it would be impossible for Cain's line and Seth's line to reproduce after that to produce Nephilim. However, if fallen angels went right back to doing what they were doing before the flood, then you could continue to have Nephilim, which is why God finally had to bind them and send them to the abyss. But thanks for playing!

[@willscholten1737]

The "sons of YHWH" are angels Here is what I found 3 years ago, for all it's worth!! Note verse 2 in this translation "sons of God..daughters of humankind" LEB: Chapter 6 Prelude to the Flood 6 And it happened that, when humankind began to multiply on the face of the ground, daughters were born to them. 2 Then the sons of God saw the daughters of humankind, that they were beautiful. And they took for themselves wives from all that they chose. 3 And Yahweh said, “My Spirit shall not abide with humankind forever in that he is also flesh. And his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” 4 The Nephilim were upon the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God went into the daughters of humankind, and they bore children to them. These were the mighty warriors that were from ancient times, men of ⌊renown⌋. 5 And Yahweh saw that the evil of humankind was great upon the earth, and every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was always only evil. 6 And Yahweh regretted that he had made humankind on the earth, and ⌊he was grieved in his heart⌋. 7 And Yahweh said, “I will destroy humankind whom I created from upon the face of the earth, from humankind, to animals, to creeping things, and to the birds of heaven, for I regret that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of Yahweh. Harris, W. H., III, Ritzema, E., Brannan, R., Mangum, D., Dunham, J., Reimer, J. A., & Wierenga, M. (Eds.). (2012). The Lexham English Bible (Ge 6:1-8). Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press. Note: Human kind mating with human kind, does not make giants!! Tags: Ge 6:1-8 Clipped: January 20, 2018 UBS Handbook: Job: Job 1:6 The English expression the sons of God gives the impression that a father-son relationship exists between Yahweh and these beings. This expression is an example of a Hebrew idiom in which members of a particular category or class are called “sons” of that group, and in this case it is a group of divine beings (see TEV footnote). The parallel expression “sons of the prophets” (see 2 Kings 2:3, 5, 15) is rendered by NEB as “company of prophets,” by TEV, and by FRCL as “group of prophets.” So here and in 2:1; 38:7 the reference is to the members of the heavenly assembly surrounding Yahweh. Normally translators should avoid any kind of expression that would imply that these are the male offspring of God. It is often possible to call them “angels,” “God’s servants,” “God’s messengers in heaven,” or “gods.” These heavenly servants are not actors in the scene. They are background, part of the scenery, and by implication Satan is one of them. The author is careful, however, not to stress this. In languages in which the principal characters must be presented first, it may be possible to say, for example, “One day (a long time ago) God and Satan were together. It was the place where the angels came to appear before God, and Satan was also appearing before God.” In some languages the essential information needed by the reader is the relationship between the actors, and one character is normally referred to, not by his name, but by the relationship to the main character. For suggestions see comments under 6b below. ’elohim, which is the same Hebrew word for God used in verses 1 and 5, is taken by some interpreters as a plural “sons of gods” (so Pope, Habel). Translators render the expression in various ways; for example, NEB “members of the heavenly court,” SPCL “his heavenly servants,” FRCL “God’s angels,” and TEV “heavenly beings.” All translations consulted take ’elohim as singular, referring to God. To present themselves has the sense of “take up their position” or “to station themselves,” which is rendered more generally by TEV “to appear before.” It depicts a body of servants waiting in attendance on Yahweh, who presides over the assembly. In some languages to present themselves is rendered, for example, “to put their eyes in the presence of” or “to place their bodies before.” Reyburn, W. D. (1992). A handbook on the book of Job (p. 38). New York: United Bible Societies. Tags: Job 1:6 Clipped: January 20, 2018

[@willscholten1737]

@Yaaqob Yisrael Thank you!!!! When people told me about Hosea 2:16, I was always speechless, I never looked, just assumed husband and master WERE the same strong #. Thank you!!!!!

[@Ty-Things]

Hebrews 1:5

[@willscholten1737]

@@Ty-Things You have to read more than one verse, to see what is being talked about!! God’s Final Word: His Son 1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs. The Son Superior to Angels 5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father”? Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”? 6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.” s 7 In speaking of the angels he says, “He makes his angels spirits, and his servants flames of fire.” t 8 But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.” x 10 He also says, “In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. 11 They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. 12 You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will never end.” b 13 To which of the angels did God ever say, “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet”? 14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation? The New International Version (Heb 1:1-14). (2011). Zondervan.

[@Licensed1]

Nephalim are a spirit of kings of old, who live as spirit inside the body of man.

[@verscarii3238]

You believe they’re only human spirits?

[@AndrewKeifer]

With all respect, Heiser's argument in which he's asking if only men are believers is tantamount to asking if "mankind" only applies to men. It's a bad point. Also I think he's factually incorrect about Augustine being both a Christian and a Manichaean at the same time. That's surprising. He's already losing points on my credibility scale.

[@debbiecooper3661]

When you rise your king's the Ark of the Covenant will be open and lake of fire awaits you

[@sueannsears8418]

"God's word is always timely...our refusal to follow counsel is backwords...the serpent Said " thou shalt not sureley die""..but most everyone post eden dies...I would rather take God's word...and Seth and Cain both married their sisters and multplied...go to amazing facts

[@sueannsears8418]

..if your really serious study with doug bachelor..

[@americanlostinvietnam3721]

Sons of God are always divine beings. There is no possibility that this can honestly be translated any other way

[@larrymoore2571]

Sons of God are ALWAYS Godly people, they are NEVER angels. Who are the sons of God? Who does God say are 'sons of God'? ~ Romans 8:14; "For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God." The Holy Spirit came upon Godly people in the OT and in the NT there is indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Angels do not have indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The following scripture tells of sons and daughters of God, there are no verses that ever claim angels as children or sons of God. ~ Deuteronomy 14: 1-2; “You are the sons of the LORD your God; you shall not cut yourselves nor shave your forehead for the sake of the dead. For you are a holy people to the LORD your God, and the LORD has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth." ~ Galatians 4:6; Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” ~ Matthew 5:9; “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." ~ Ephesians 1:5; "He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will," ~ Romans 8:19; "For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God." ~ Galatians 3:26; "For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus."

[@americanlostinvietnam3721]

@@larrymoore2571 Psalm 82:6 I said, “You are gods, And all of you are children of the Most High. But you shall die like men, And fall like one of the princes.” Jehova is calling the members of the divine assembly "children" Genesis 6 - And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. Sons of God here are members of the divine counsel that took the wives of men. Job 1:6 & 2:1 - Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. 7 And the Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?” Sons of God were the elohim of the divine counsel in Job. In the Old Testament, sons of Elohim were divine members of the Assembly of El according to Psalm 82. They were appointed as judges over the nations, but they judged wickedly and were removed and according to Revelation 12, were thrown down to the earth. When they fell from their place, they were replaced by men being the patriarchs. According to Revelation 20:4, those men have been sitting as judges with Christ. The sons of God (divine beings) who sinned were replaced with men whom God cleansed and men have become the sons of God.

[@darthtaylor513]

@@larrymoore2571good points. You did conveniently leave out Job. So your statement should not says ALWAYS but sometimes or I’ll grant you mostly. However, where is there evidence that the Holy Spirit permanently in dwelt anyone in the OT? If that is the case, why the need for Jesus sacrifice.

[@larrymoore2571]

@@darthtaylor513 In the Old Testament the Holy Spirit came upon people, indwelling came after the resurrection. The Holy Spirit was not permanent and God could and did remove His Holy Spirit evidenced in Gen 6:3; "My Spirit shall not ‘ABIDE’ with ‘man’ forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless, his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” We also see in Psalm 51:11; " Do not cast me away from Your presence And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me." Job 1,2 & 38 are often referred to prove ‘sons of God’ are angels, let’s break it down. ~ Job 1: 3-5; When the days of feasting had completed their cycle, Job would send and CONSECRATE them (Job's sons), rising up early in the morning and offering burnt offerings according to the number of them all; for Job said, “Perhaps my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts.” Thus, Job did continually. Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. The LORD said to Satan, “From where do you come?” Then Satan answered the LORD and said, “From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it.” (Summary) ~ Job and his sons (Godly men 'sons of God') are 'CONSECRATED', presenting themselves before God with burnt offerings (sacrifices) for forgiveness of sin. Satan was among them on earth. God asked Satan and he said he was on earth. The next four verses Satan describes Job’s hedge of protection, his blessings and riches etc. Satan has been there with Job. ~ This isn't angels presenting themselves to God in heaven, this is Job on earth, with his sons called ‘sons of God’. Consecrate: to induct a person into permanent office with a religious rite i.e., to ordain the office of Bishop. To make or declare sacred, to devote irrevocably to the worship of God by a solemn ceremony. ~ This next passage is NOT a historical account of creation but a poetic allegory with much symbolism unless God has the earth supported by a physical foundation and cornerstone. Where there is symbolism look for Jesus. ~ Job 38:6-7; Or who ‘LAID’ its 'CORNERSTONE'? 'WHEN' the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy? ~ What is the 'cornerstone' or who is the ‘cornerstone’? JESUS ~ 'WHEN' was the 'cornerstone' laid? AT PENTECOST WHEN THE CHURCH BEGAN. ~ Isaiah 28:16; "Therefore thus says the Lord GOD, “Behold, I am 'LAYING' in Zion a stone, a tested stone, A costly ‘CORNERSTONE’ for the foundation, firmly placed. He who believes in it will not be disturbed." ~ Zachariah 10:3-4; "For the LORD of hosts has visited His flock, the house of Judah and will make them like His majestic horse in battle. “From them 'WILL COME' the ‘CORNERSTONE’." ~ Who are the morning stars? ANGELS ~ Revelation 1:20; “As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven ‘STARS ARE ANGELS’ of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches." ~ Who are the sons of God shouted for joy? GODLY PEOPLE A word search in the Bible for ‘shout for joy, shouted for joy, shouting for joy’ reveals: 'people' shouting for joy 32 times, 'nature' (hills, meadows trees etc.) 2 times, and 'angels' shouting for joy 0 times (if Job 38 is angels, then that would be angels 1, people 31, nature 2). God Bless and look up!

[@larrymoore2571]

@@americanlostinvietnam3721 Sorry for the delay in replying. Psalm 82 refers to the religious officials of the day that had the power of life and death over their subjects through Levitical law. This passage has nothing to do with angels. That is why God says vindicate the weak and needy etc. Please note that God says they will die like men. Angels are immortal and cannot die. Jesus used this very passage against the Pharisees and religious leaders to reprove them: ~ John 10:34-36; "Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law, I said you are gods? “If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?

[@Bei-Abedan]

The word Nephil means fallen in all contexts. The translation "giants" is simply wrong. Gibborim means giants. The sons of the Daughters of haAdam were the Gibborim. The Hebrew is explicitly clear. It is embarrassing watching adults (who should know better) trying mental gymnastics with occult meanings to defend erroneous beliefs that they were duped into subscribing to rather than growing up admit their mistake and accept the plain simple meaning of the text.

[@honorablevessel]

YES!!!! How do people find it so difficult to read. Nephilim are fallen Angels, Gebor are the giants (the sons of the Nephilim)

[@CRoadwarrior]

@@honorablevessel No, the Nephilim are not fallen angels. The text says no such thing.

[@christianbohls9880]

Amen!

[@debbiecooper3661]

No giants was on Cave of treasures. So jealous haters the haters who hated God before they hated lost tribes

[@paulpaul-n]

Dr Mike reigns

[@NoJesus.NoLife]

A blessings, but as always(made in the USA), you have to pay $ for God to bless you. Teasing short little video's, really good to hear, but you will have to pay. I understand that, but at least put a few of those 1 hour sermon and finish the lesson for the people of God can at least get a good piece of bread.

[@qaz-fi1id]

Why can't the sons of God mean the carriers of the covenant that the messiah would come through not necessarily believers, I'm sure Cain believed and some of his descendants did to but as you can see from the genealogies, his descends were wicked. My beef with the angel view is it goes against what Jesus told the sadducees, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, meaning they do not procreate. Did they posses humans, did they cause the human sperm to be supernatural?

[@brucelee8189]

MESSIAH didn’t say, “angels don’t have bodies” That has been an assumption. Did the angels eat with Abraham ? Did the angels eat with Lot ? Mat 22:24 Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother. Mat 22:25 Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother: Mat 22:26 Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh. Mat 22:27 And last of all the woman died also. Mat 22:28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her. Mat 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, 👉🏿👉🏿👉🏿Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures👈🏿👈🏿👈🏿, nor the power of God. Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. Where does OT scripture state “angels are not given in marriage ? Tertullian, a 2nd century church father stated, Enoch was inspired. He also said, Enoch had too many prophecies about MESSIAH, to be ignored. Here is the scripture that MESSIAH was referring in Matthew 22: Enoch 15:1. And He answered and said to me, and I heard His voice: 'Fear not, Enoch, thou righteous man and scribe of righteousness: approach hither and hear my voice. 2. And go, say to the Watchers of heaven them: "You should intercede" , who have sent thee to intercede for men, and not men for you: for 3. Wherefore have ye left the high, holy, and eternal heaven, and lain with women, and defiled yourselves with the daughters of men and taken to yourselves wives, and done like the children of earth, and begotten giants (as your) sons? 4. And though ye were holy, spiritual, living the eternal life, you have defiled yourselves with the blood of women, and have begotten (children) with the blood of flesh, and, as the children of men, have lusted after flesh and blood as those also do who die and perish. 5. Therefore have I given them wives also that they might impregnate them, and beget children by them, that thus nothing might be wanting to them on earth. 6. But you were formerly spiritual, living the eternal life, and immortal for all generations of the world. 7. And therefore I have not appointed wives for you; for as for the spiritual ones of the heaven, in heaven is their dwelling. This is confirmed in 2nd Peter, Jude, Dead Sea Scrolls, Jubilees, Enoch, Clementine Homilies and several other sources.

[@tonyf4991]

Well, the thing with the human idea is that it makes the Bible a jumbled mess with hypocrisy. No joke. The Sethite/human idea comes from the thought that Salvation was always available even pre-flood. And only all the Sethites (even though only one godly line is mentioned) had this because they called on the name of the Lord. Yet many people in the Old Testament call on the name of the Lord, yet it does not say they have Salvation from it. You also have the fact that Salvation available pre-flood or even in the Old Testament, defeats the purpose of the sin sacrifices and ultimately Jesus' Sacrifice and all He did.

[@larrymoore2571]

2 Timothy 3:16-17; "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for TEACHING, for reproof, for CORRECTION, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, EQUIPPED FOR EVERY GOOD WORK." According to Dr. Heiser... no no, you need to have the writings of 2010 called the 'Apkallu story." So, this dr. thinks the Bible must be totally insufficient to determine God's message to us. Either 2 Tim 3 is God inspired and adequate for every good work or it isn't. Beware of every snake oil salesman trying to entice you to go outside the word of God to determine the word of God. The Bible NEVER says the 'sons of God' are angels. Who are the sons of God? Who does God say are 'sons of God'? ~ Romans 8:14; "For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God." The Holy Spirit came upon Godly people in the OT and in the NT there is indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Angels do not have indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The following scripture tells of sons and daughters of God, there are no verses that ever claim angels as children or sons of God. ~ Deuteronomy 14: 1-2; “You are the sons of the LORD your God; you shall not cut yourselves nor shave your forehead for the sake of the dead. For you are a holy people to the LORD your God, and the LORD has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth." ~ Galatians 4:6; Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” ~ Matthew 5:9; “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." ~ Ephesians 1:5; "He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will," ~ Romans 8:19; "For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God." ~ Galatians 3:26; "For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus." Moses wrote the first 5 books of the Bible, 51 times Moses refers to angels and he uses the Hebrew term 'Ma'lak', he never refers to angels as 'sons of God' ('Bene-Ha-Elohim'). Nephilim, Hebrew definition Nephal: (to fall/fallen ones) The Greek LXX added the word gigantes (giants) to the definition many centuries later. ~ Psalm 53:2-3; “God looks down from heaven on the children of man to see if there are any who understand, who seek after God. They have all ‘FALLEN AWAY’; together they have become corrupt; there is none who does good, not even one.”

[@normanmurdoch8814]

I believe that our brother in Christ, the late Dr Chuck Missler (Koinonia House Ministry, 1934 - 2018), provides the more coherent and succinct commentaries of not only Genesis 6 (fallen Angels mating with Humans producing giant, cannabalistic hybrids; see the Book of Jude), but the entire Bible, both the Old Testament and the New. Lastly, a Christian's predominant Teacher is the Holy Spirit and a serious & comprehensive examination of the BIBLE will reveal consistent patterns of behaviours and symbolisms (Law of First Mention, etc); that indisputably identify the fingerprints of GOD and the intended message being conveyed.

[@YesuAiNimen]

Would you happen to have the name of a particular book or a link to a video for that info? Thank you!!

[@YesuAiNimen]

Would you happen to have the name of a particular book or a link for that info? Thank you!!

[@debbiecooper3661]

No Vikings was on Holy Mountain of God Esau Dan

[@donhaddix3770]

sons God in the Bible are angels or Godly people. Fallen Angels have been bound in hell since the war in heaven before the creation of Adam and Eve. Plus they are neither male nor female. Do the process of elimination and water you left with?

[@davidheaton6206]

If they are bound then what are Demons? How is Satan prowling around ?

[@donhaddix3770]

@@davidheaton6206 demons are not fallen angels and God left Satan free to be the accuser.

[@donhaddix3770]

@davidheaton6206 Pre-Adamic Creation Read more at Christian Talk Zone Pre-Adamic Creation Commentaries • Commentaries by CoreIssue When people crack open the Bible, the most common assumption accepted by Christians is that all matter and energy came into existence within the six days in chapter one of Genesis, thus meaning the earth is merely thousands of years old. The statement itself is flawed. The Bible does not state the Earth is thousands of years old. This statement comes from the assumption that the six days of creation begin at Genesis 1:1. This is incorrect. They begin at Genesis 1:3. Genesis 1:1: In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Bara' Strong's Number: 1254 Original WordWord Origin arba primitive root Transliterated WordTDNT Entry Bara'TWOT - 278 Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech baw-raw' Verb Definition 1. to create, shape, form a. (Qal) to shape, fashion, create (always with God as subject) 1. of heaven and earth 2. of individual man 3. of new conditions and circumstances 4. of transformations b. (Niphal) to be created 1. of heaven and earth 2. of birth 3. of something new 4. of miracles c. (Piel) 1. to cut down 2. to cut out 2. to be fat a. (Hiphil) to make yourselves fat The Hebrew word, bara, in Genesis 1:1, indicates that what was created was "ex-nihilo" - out of nothing. One should not confuse bara (“he created”) with its synonym `asah (“he made”). In the nothingness, there was only God. For examples of “made,” consider Exodus 20:11 and Exodus 31:17. Exodus 20:11: For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. `asah Strong's Number: 6213 Original WordWord Origin hX[a primitive root Transliterated WordTDNT Entry `asahTWOT - 1708,1709 Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech aw-saw' Verb Definition Strong's Number: 06213; TWOT: 1708,1709; verb 1. to do, fashion, accomplish, make a. (Qal) 1. to do, work, make, produce 1a b. to do 1a c. to work 1a d. to deal (with) 1a e. to act, act with effect, effect 1. to make 1a f. to make 1a g. to produce 1a h. to prepare 1a i. to make (an offering) 1a j. to attend to, put in order 1a k. to observe, celebrate 1a l. to acquire (property) 1a m. to appoint, ordain, institute 1a n. to bring about 1a o. to use 1a p. to spend, pass q. (Niphal) 1. to be done 2. to be made 3. to be produced 4. to be offered 5. to be observed 6. to be used r. (Pual) to be made 2. (Piel) to press, squeeze Therefore, there is a fundamental difference between God creating, forming, and shaping the heavens and the earth [Bara' in Genesis 1:1] compared to God making, fashioning, and working the heavens and the earth [`asah in Exodus 20:11 and Exodus 31:17]. For the definition of these words “made” and “create,” I will turn to the Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, Tenth Edition: Made: (1): (a): FICTITIOUS, INVENTED (b): artificially produced (c): put together of various ingredients (2): assured of success 1Create: (1): to bring into existence (2): (a): to invest with a new form, office, or rank (b): to produce or bring about by a course of action or behavior (3): CAUSE, OCCATION (4): (a): to produce through imaginative skill (b): DESIGN ~ vi: to make or bring into existence something new" Again, notice the key difference between (made) "put together of various ingredients" verses (create) "to bring into existence." The term "made" used in the context of "create" is inaccurate, by definition. Genesis 1:1-2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. Hayah Strong's Number: 01961 Original WordWord Origin hyha primitive root [compare (01933)] Transliterated WordTDNT Entry HayahTWOT - 491 Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech haw-yaw Verb Definition to be, become, come to pass, exist, happen, fall out 1. (Qal) a. to happen, fall out, occur, take place, come about, come to pass b. to come about, come to pass c. to come into being, become d. to arise, appear, come e. to become f. to become g. to become like h. to be instituted, be established i. to be j. to exist, be in existence k. to abide, remain, continue (with word of place or time) l. to stand, lie, be in, be at, be situated (with word of locality) m. to accompany, be with 2. (Niphal) a. to occur, come to pass, be done, be brought about b. to be done, be finished, be gone Tohuw Strong's Number: 08414 Original WordWord Origin whtfrom an unused root meaning to lie waste Transliterated WordTDNT Entry TohuwTWOT - 2494a Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech to'-hoo Noun Masculine Definition 1. formlessness, confusion, unreality, emptiness a. formlessness (of primeval earth) 1. nothingness, empty space b. that which is empty or unreal (of idols) (fig) c. wasteland, wilderness (of solitary places) d. place of chaos e. vanity Bohuw Strong's Number: 0922 Original WordWord Origin whbfrom an unused root (meaning to be empty) Transliterated WordTDNT Entry BohuwTWOT - 205a Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech bo'-hoo Noun Masculine Definition 1. emptiness, void, waste T@howm Strong's Number: 08415 Original WordWord Origin ~whtfrom (01949) Transliterated WordTDNT Entry T@howmTWOT - 2495a Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech teh-home' Noun Definition 1. deep, depths, deep places, abyss, the deep, sea 1. deep (of subterranean waters) 2. deep, sea, abysses (of sea) 3. primeval ocean, deep 4. deep, depth (of river) 5. abyss, the grave God created the earth to be inhabited. Therefore, God would have created a perfect earth in Genesis 1:1. But, in Genesis 1:2, the earth was an empty, chaotic [Tohuw] wasteland [Bohuw] in water [T@howm]. This is not perfection, but the opposite.

[@rizenofficial2369]

(I have new understanding Now) Disregard that -> The nephilim are the angels that's influenced the righteous line of seth to mingle with daughters of cain..because you see the line of cain ends but Seth's continue to noah because he was the only pure human stock left and who wasn't lost in wickedness with continous acts of the flesh. You can get an idea of where dinosaurs come from too when you realize the mixing between species the fallen angels where teaching mankind to do.

[@brucelee8189]

MESSIAH didn’t say, “angels don’t have bodies” That has been an assumption. Did the angels eat with Abraham ? Did the angels eat with Lot ? Mat 22:24 Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother. Mat 22:25 Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother: Mat 22:26 Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh. Mat 22:27 And last of all the woman died also. Mat 22:28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her. Mat 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, 👉🏿👉🏿👉🏿Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures👈🏿👈🏿👈🏿, nor the power of God. Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. Where does OT scripture state “angels are not given in marriage ? Tertullian, a 2nd century church father stated, Enoch was inspired. He also said, Enoch had too many prophecies about MESSIAH, to be ignored. Here is the scripture that MESSIAH was referring to, in Matthew 22: Enoch 15:1. And He answered and said to me, and I heard His voice: 'Fear not, Enoch, thou righteous man and scribe of righteousness: approach hither and hear my voice. 2. And go, say to the Watchers of heaven them: "You should intercede" , who have sent thee to intercede for men, and not men for you: for 3. Wherefore have ye left the high, holy, and eternal heaven, and lain with women, and defiled yourselves with the daughters of men and taken to yourselves wives, and done like the children of earth, and begotten giants (as your) sons? 4. And though ye were holy, spiritual, living the eternal life, you have defiled yourselves with the blood of women, and have begotten (children) with the blood of flesh, and, as the children of men, have lusted after flesh and blood as those also do who die and perish. 5. Therefore have I given them wives also that they might impregnate them, and beget children by them, that thus nothing might be wanting to them on earth. 6. But you were formerly spiritual, living the eternal life, and immortal for all generations of the world. 7. And therefore I have not appointed wives for you; for as for the spiritual ones of the heaven, in heaven is their dwelling. This is confirmed in 2nd Peter

[@rizenofficial2369]

@@brucelee8189 marriage is not in heaven We are the bride of christ. Also I believe the Melchizedek order has something to do with the interbreeding...The sin was punished on mankind not angels..those angels that influenced are locked in the earth

[@rizenofficial2369]

@@brucelee8189 also Only earthly beings have sex organs

[@brucelee8189]

@@rizenofficial2369, So.....after the Angel ate and drank with Abraham, it couldn’t get rid of waste ? Scripture never says, “angels don’t have sex organs”.

[@puertoricanprince7690]

Book of jubilees says angels are circumcized. So they have genitals

[@oscardavis3906]

ADAM was created to "TILL THE GROUND" = "NO MAN to till the ground = ADAM = GENESIS 2:15 = GARDENER = TILLER of the ground = CAIN = LIKE FATHER like son of GOD = ADAM = LUKE 3:38 = CAIN = FALLEN ONE = NEPHILIM (FALLEN ONE = MURDERER= CURSED = IN FEAR of those who should seek him out and slay him))>>> took to himself a daughter of men = GENESIS 2:1 = WHEN THE HOST of the earth was finished = When ???= Genesis 1:29 that GOD HAD GIVEN the BLESSING TO MULTIPLY THE EARTH = WHEN HE had given them EVERY TREE that bears fruit for food = NO FORBIDDEN TREE/FRUIT. BUT WHEN ADAM was taken from earth, placed in the Garden of Eden to dress and keep it Genesis 2:15 = TILLER OF THE GROUND = INSERT THE FORBIDDEN TREE/FRUIT >> (HAVE YOU EVER THOUGHT, that when God created Adam from the dust of the earth, that it was next to the land of Nod??? MAYBE>>> GOD had ADAM go into the local blacks' smith shop and picked up his gardening tools first, BEFORE GOD, placed him in the Garden of Eden) >>>> GENESIS 2:15>>>>>> BAD BOY ADAM, BAD GIRL EVE = NAUGHTY>>> NAUGHTY>>> CAST BACK OUT TO WHERE ADAM CAME FROM = THE DUST OF THE EARTH = "CURSED" >>>> = "FALLEN ONE" =TO TILL THE GROUND. ADAM = SON OF GOD = LUKE 3:38 = SETH = with the DNA OF HIS DAD = SON OF GOD = IN THE FLESH = on to NOAH = "THE DIVINE COUNCIL = When they rise from the dead, BECOME LIKE he angels in HEAVENS DIVINE COUNCIL" = >>>> TAKE TO THEMSELVES THOSE FINE LOOKING daughters of men = created MEN OF RENOWN = FAMOUS = AMOUNG THE CONGREGATION = PRINCES = “PURE BLOOD LINES” WHO ROSE up against MOSES, in the WILDERNESS of ZEN= when they were FIGHTING GIANTS >>>WHO SURVIVED the flood because >>>TWO WERE ON THE ARK>>> YEAH>>>>> SO WHO IS WHO>>> MEN OF RENOWN?????? I CAN HEAR the hissing of those wicked ones>>>>>> = WHO WILL "QUIBBLE" with the >>>>>>> HERDSMAN????? EVEN A FOOL >>>> KNOWS when to hold its tongue, WHO WILL STEP FORWARD AND SAY to GOD, "I stand corrected."? HERDSMAN III OLD III

[@mattd7650]

Heiser's beliefs seem kinda Gnostic to me. Relying on pagan myth more than scripture. Maybe I'll change my mind one day, but something seems off in my spirit.

[@truthbebold4009]

No! Do not change your mind. This crowd is into the comic book version of the Bible.

[@larrymoore2571]

You are in good company with that assessment. Scripture defines scripture and this rage of the day is disgusting.

[@sharidandan4172]

This man started out by saying you must consider the context then what he sources it not the bible so its out of context and ignores the immediate context of the book of Genisis which is "MAN" notice how many times man is mentioned in Gen 6. His first argument against the sethite view is not what people believe. Yes the bible does say that only the righteous are sons of God and those that are not faithful are not Sons of God. That is consistent through the entire bible for heavens sake.

[@Se7enStars369]

Nothing NEW under ME - The Sun.

[@KingdomIsNow]

These rebellious angels specifically came to earth to defile the Son of Man lineage of the Messiah. The first advent of the Saviour is prophesied in Genesis chapter 1 on the 4th day. The Sun, the Moon, and the Stars, they all allude to Christ. Jesus appeared in the earth exactly 4,000 years or prophetically called the 4th day since Adam. Therefore, these evil angels knew that he would come.

[@debbiecooper3661]

You can dish it out khazar sodom but you can't take it...bondage coming to you forever