Why is MAGIC so DESPISED? - Elden Ring Controversy

Magic has been topic of discussion in Elden Ring since its release. Not only that but the disdain for Magic goes way back into the era of Dark Souls 1, both for PvP and PvE... but why is this? Today, Ranni looks into the matter and tells you what she found out!
Be it an astrologer or a prisoner, magic users get a lot of hate across reddit, steam forums and the game in general. It's not uncommon to see hate towards using magic in this, both PvE and PvP. From Dark Bead in Dark Souls, to hexes in Dark Souls 2, the avalanche of hate towards sorcerer builds was relentless. Let's find out why this was the case!
Limit x Break survivor remix: • DRAGON BALL SUPER Op2 ...
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[@OnlyWaifuYT]

What are YOUR thoughts on magic?

[@melonking281]

Is good

[@loganwernicke7604]

*Power*

[@WelcomeToDERPLAND]

It's always been the easy mode for souls games- you stand there wave your hand infront of you for a second or two and then insta-gib nearly every enemy while they usually have next to 0 ability to get back at you. Especially when you summon someone to draw aggro from you- it makes the game trivial. But then again if you are good at the game and especially in ds1 you are already probably capable of making the game trivially easy, which is why "souls games are too hard gib easy mode wah wah :'C" is and always will be a horrifically stupid bad take only made by casuls who need to actually develop some skills.

[@WelcomeToDERPLAND]

In PVP however, magic isn't OP and hasn't been since at least DS2 if not DS1. In ds2 I played enough pvp to quite literally roll and dodge and punish every single spell in the game- and since mages normal combat skills are usually trash or sub par it made fighting them hilariously easy and always funny to see them panic when they realize they cant just insta-gib me cause I can roll them forever.

[@leonardocarrion1875]

Dual naginata are more op in my opinion

[@aquilomancer]

You know, Miyazaki never intended anyone to have fun with the game. He wanted people to sit in a dark room and stare at a wall. Truly, the only way to legitimately beat Elden Ring. Edit: Yes, I'm being sarcastic. This comment is a joke.

[@redbirb1571]

You do know he apologized for the game being hard... right?

[@oneofthekindscarf8612]

@@redbirb1571 my brother he's speaking in satire

[@Hepheat75]

You don't have to be so accurate 💀

[@Stravioska]

miracle users:

[@GrandLynx-kp2zi]

Eldenring is easy for me personally Demon Souls and DS2 and DS3 DLC bosses were all very difficult for me personally I actually hope for Eldenring DLC they increase the difficulty more

[@MichaelTheRead]

I'm weird because the main reason I like magic is simply because it looks beautiful in Elden Ring.

[@sleepychickadee4087]

It really does!

[@smokinggnu6584]

100% agree, pretty pew-pew-pew. Looks much better than just jump-bonking everything with a big sword.

[@mark0183]

Nothing makes me feel more powerful than summoning a rain of meteor over the enemy

[@dislikebutton9571]

The color blue gives me a headache

[@mgk-metalgearkelly5054]

​@@dislikebutton9571same lol 😭😭

[@andresakra1283]

I did a castor only build in elden ring int/fth. It was fun and made me play with different tactics. Early game was pain, with slow casting speed and limited options boss fights were stressful and often a battle of attrition.

[@caldw615]

I got my arse handed to me once I got to Lucaria Academy. Nearly everything in there was very resistant to magic and my physical stats weren't much better. Then I found out Dexterity actually made your casts faster AND scaled with some specific weapons, so I dumped a bunch into Dex to make fighting magic resistant enemies a bit easier.

[@EvilExcalibur]

​@@caldw615 Oh yeah, if you're not supplementing your magic with fire spells then Dex is absolutely the way to go

[@timklafke4712]

Yooo that's exactly what i'm doing rn and its actually way more fun than i thought it would be. My plan is to level strength, dex and endurance up to just enough points to be able to dual wield the helphen's steeple and golden order greatsword (as sort of a "light and dark" theme since you get death and golden order spells with int/faith). I'm sure my stats won't be optimal for those two weapons but it will be way more fun of a melee fallback than night and flame sword is tbh. I actually can't wait to see what the dlc adds for int/faith combo stuff, it might end up being the second character i go through the dlc with (first playthrough will be blind so i dont wanna miss spells). Actually i realized you said "pure caster" so i guess mine isn't quite exactly the same, but i mostly pure cast and just have melee if i run completely out of fp.

[@IronChief13]

In french "castor" means "beaver" so for a brief moment I was like "how tf did you do a beaver gameplay ?"

[@redwolf344]

@@caldw615 i had to kill the boss with my katana cause my spells weren't doing enough damage took me like 10 tries with magic and only two with my weapon

[@altoidius6252]

Basically, if you want to use melee, then you learn attack patterns and roll timings. If you want to use anything ranged, you learn resource management and spacing. I've played through from software's SoulsLike games dozens of times throughout the years and those are the skills you develop within those playstyles. There's obviously gonna be overlap, but each playstyle specializes in different types of game awareness.

[@ivanvoloder8114]

I couldn't said it better myself. With magic you need to learn how long does it take to cast a spell and when to cast it. Also when to keep distance and when to refill your FP. I tried to explain it to other players but they wouldn't listen. They all have have response " Oh you have a skill issue", or " Casting doesn't require any skill and you don't know how to play a game". Everyone hates mage players.

[@doesfireburn8532]

I agree to your point but i noticed a very strong difficulty spike when dealing with mages. Not all mages are op, most of them take huuge damage even from a dex build that doesn´t use meta weapons and stats. Most of them resort to either panic rolling or cheap tricks to get the better of you. Which also shows how most mages are noticably unskilled when dealing with players. Its not an insult just an observation But there are some mages ive noticed that fill out all class points creating something like a mary sue type of character. High poise attacks, low damage taking including elemental damage, absurd amount of magic damage even when equipping the strongest talismans and protection spells + even when those mages remain unbuffed. Low weight and using the most broken katana and spells in the game. There simply isn´t any other class that one shots me so concistantly than those types of mages. I can deal with any rivers of blood spammer, guts sword, poleblade, double spears and moonveils without the extra magic spells to back the user up. I generally noticed that at least with my build i have to tryhard most of the time because the damage if hit is so big i don´t need to bother buffing my self.

[@Gamfluent]

@@doesfireburn8532you haven’t done or fought someone with night comet, it’s hilarious when people try to dodge but it’s so fast

[@doesfireburn8532]

@@Gamfluent i did and its real bad to deal with. Also when they spam those gravity orbs its a pain in the ass

[@fullfildreamz]

As someone who has mostly played mage, but also a lot of melee, I really appreciate your honest take.

[@JustAFatherlyNerd]

Same brother

[@emperorborgpalpatine]

ranni the ---> witch

[@thisgoddamusernamestoodamnlong]

I'm just trying to cosplay Vergil im so sorry 😢

[@spacewizardpip1111]

What’s funny about spell haters is a lot of melee weapons/weapon arts deal equally amounts of crazy damage.

[@ragegaze3482]

yes but most people who hate on spells also hate on those weapons too to be fair. I hate on spells not that much, but sometimes. But I equally call overpowered melee builds cringe, most the "hardcore" souls players who hate on magic for being too easy don't accept bleed builds either lol. Atleast from what I have seen. If those people do exist that make fun of magic then pull out rivers of blood and 1 shot a boss, then they are delusional. In pvp I don't really hate magic that much, atleast not for being overpowered. Just annoying.

[@CoolGuy-pn1vm]

I would say melee is WAY more op. Giant armor with giant weapons chasing you like a marathon runner. Its too much control over an actual mage. An "actual mage" meaning robes, soft cap vigor, soft cap INT, and a straight sword or rapier. Not a guy in bull goat with a car-sized sword who just uses swift shard for finishers

[@elvangulley3210]

​@@ragegaze3482why do you charter it's a single player game for most players

[@TheJols]

​@@CoolGuy-pn1vmfirst playthru i was op. Magic builds with int scaling weapons and medium armour wasnt a problem, could still medium roll. Had melee and ranged magic made the game easy until near end

[@SirSleepwalker]

@@ragegaze3482 I was playing int/dex build but It was too much spell juggling, running around etc. so I switched to Rivers of Blood and sorceries seem like hardmode compared to this. Rivers of Blood = just nuking everything, especially if you summon mimic. It's just one big bloodbath and it's super fun.

[@lubbo5261]

People who complain about magic in Souls games are also the ones who kick you in Monster Hunter for useing a Longsword.

[@GiggaGMikeE]

They are the people who kick you in MH for not flash/trap spamming monsters

[@kaden-sd6vb]

thank god i never met any of those people. I'm a charge blade main but I've dabbled in longswording a bit, its a fun weapon once you get the hang of using the counter mechanics. tbh im surprised nobody complains about charge blade, since the issue people have with longsword is the long and wide swings, at least thats what I've heard. and well, charge blade's moves aren't exactly *small*

[@zabrac1566]

Okay but listen, Longsword deserves it's hate! Magic is just a playstyle that you can engage with and won't hurt anyone else doing even if you're grouping with them. Longsword on the other hand is non-stop tripping for anyone not wearing Flinch Free and if you're using a shield weapon it's pretty common to get caught while blocking and be "stunned" blocking your allies attacks. Still just jokes, no one should be kicked for just playing a weapon in MH or ER, but LS definitely has more of a case against it than magic imo.

[@jonathanbaker4361]

I played mage. I just felt more comfortable at a range. I agree it didn't seem more or less powerful than many other styles. I am just new to souls games and getting surrounded was unnerving.

[@christopherkappenman6435]

The exact same way I played the game. On top of running dark moon greatsword with it. Had a fantastic time playing through and made me the most comfortable throughout my first souls game

[@Sagenomnoms]

Oh same. I had played co-op souls like games with friends but never alone. I decided to try this alone and went pure int build glass cannon. That final boss died in about 12 seconds lol. I had so much fun with the magic system in this. Im not great at perrying or deflecting so ranged was my best option.

[@varsa507]

That's interesting, I feel that way irl but not in video games lol

[@StevejRodriguez]

I like to imagine this channel’s lectures were from a brief stint Ranni had as an instructor at Raya Lucaria before her and her mom went AWOL

[@Coldsteak]

this is canon

[@enriquemendez1507]

Yes and that's why she gives you the darkmoon great sword. Half melee half magic. To not take a side with either play style. 😂

[@StevejRodriguez]

@@enriquemendez1507 What is the Darkmoon really but a short sorcerer staff with a large, sharp glintstone shard at the end of it? 🤔😏

[@enriquemendez1507]

@@StevejRodriguez are you calling Miyazaki a liar?

[@StevejRodriguez]

@@enriquemendez1507 I aint callin him a truther!

[@GunLobster]

A blessing within the community, to purge it from the toxic filth. I've seen players take this game way too seriously.

[@juna069]

They should try sex honestly

[@syrenet]

Ah yes, the classic argument of if you didnt hit your head against the wall until the wall crumbled you are not entering to the room correctly. god forbit for using the door.

[@sentinelslayer8328]

Everyone says “‘magic makes the game to easy” as if strength build doesn’t destroy the majority of bosses

[@hohenheimoflight835]

Bruh I tried strength build (with a different character) after my third run with magic (as new souls player) to give it a try and try to learn more about the mechanics. Seems like the only thing todo is time your bonks and gg ez everything… I found it more difficult to play as a mage. You’re more squishy and likely to make a mistake and get one shot by almost everything. Yet I feel like there’s a lot of room to improve.

[@demilung]

Or like the game isn't designed for you to be constantly struggling to break a stone wall using a boiled carrot.

[@Jameoski]

​@@hohenheimoflight835 moonlight great sword makes almost every boss a cake walk

[@yulfine1688]

@@Jameoski yes but its a later weapon compared to most others, ontop of that the requirements still take time to build up its one weapon, with quality or str you can use just about anything and it will clap, even dex still has solid options but they don't have as much stance breaking so they're more difficult to learn for a player who relies on the stance breaks unless its flame of the redmanes which is still ok after the nerf or the gliintstone swords a few rounds of those usually will stagger as well

[@heilonghuangdi3348]

As an astrologer I love sorcery. I've been a sorcerer main since ds1. All we get is hate. Everyone wants us to do little to no damage at all and they want to be able to face tank while smashing R1 into oblivion. Our spells have little to no tracking and anyone who is well versed in cast speed can easily dodge all spells. At this point, we're accustomed to the vitriol.

[@UrielAngeli147]

Precisely. I would actually argue that most bosses are harder for a pure magic build than a bonk build. Bosses are designed to let the player get up in its face and punish, not stand off and chip away. if you do it without cheesing, at least.

[@senselesssai6828]

When you are getting nuked by spells from 3 gankers then you will understand. Sometimes even 2 is enough. Add to that the removal of passive poise and then go and try to invade.

[@UrielAngeli147]

@@senselesssai6828 That has nothing to do with PvE "but that isn't unga bunga" whining. I will admit to complete unfamiliarity with gank squads, so, sorry, can't relate, but I imagine it's frustrating.

[@senselesssai6828]

@@UrielAngeli147 Why would anyone care how anyone else plays the game on their own?

[@UrielAngeli147]

@@senselesssai6828 That's exactly the question. Doesn't stop people though.

[@AegisKHAOS]

I played as a mage for my second character, and while there is something to be said about taking out enemies at a distance with sorceries, I generally found parts of the game to give me a harder time than I would with either my unga bunga bonk build or my cheese pre-nerf bleed build. And then I finally tried the blasphemous blade.

[@Gensolink]

I think when enemies dont see you you have a big advantage but once they notice you it's harder to play a mage especially against some mobile or input reading enemies(those tend to be the same too)

[@user-jr3zr2mp9c]

I mean we're comparing it to ore nerf bleed, that had the damage of a fully charged night comet with the stopping power of a melee build Also BB lol

[@trevorfahey3819]

Ah yes, join us brother

[@colonelradec5956]

Me too. I died as mage so much I rage quit daily. Still not sure I wanna pick it back up. Also 90% of the spells are useless. There's like 10 good spells. I'd take any build over mage even faith.

[@kaden-sd6vb]

i was int for a while. then i tried incantations. I have never gone back. sooooooooooo much variety with faith

[@just-some-black-person1792]

After hating magic with a passion then making a magic build of my own I've come to realize it's alright

[@Unga_bunga_man]

Lol Str/int go bonk

[@Zabrakjedi]

​@@Unga_bunga_manSTR/INT be like. "I Unga, therefore I bunga...."

[@justinvansoest7216]

honestly magic builds tend to get punished and countered by different types of enemies. but it in no way trivializes the entire game. i couldn't help myself to set up the ultra cheese kamehameha though and did regret it once i blapped a unique boss with it.

[@rhyswhittington8759]

@@justinvansoest7216 eh, it does trivialize a huge amount of it. maybe some bosses it doesnt but definitely most.

[@plipplop728]

@@rhyswhittington8759 Well, you know that magic in Elden Ring is more than Comet Azure right? they do trivialize some parts, but definitely not most, and the other parts that it doesn't trivialize, gets pretty rough with being glass cannon and have to spread more thinly across the stats. Also a lot of bosses in mid-end game are VERY aggresive, making it even more difficult to use your magic (I don't count using Ashes, because even melee builds gets much easier with those). After almost always starts with bonking build for first playthroughs of previous From games, I started ER with Sorcerer for a change of pace, and then try other builds including melee for subsequent playthroughs, and I found it very frustating a lot of the times with my 1st one especially mid-end game like I said.

[@wyzlight2028]

melee magic like the carrian slicer is an insanely good tool to pull out towards the end of a fight cause your opponent usually doesnt expect it specially if you dont have a sword in your second hand

[@kaden-sd6vb]

not to mention the range on those spells in combination with how quickly they come out makes them quite good overall

[@EmpressSectonia]

I got a death threat after a Coli fight in Elden Ring yesterday. I was testing out a new magic build that my cousin suggested.

[@smokinggnu6584]

Well, rest easy in the fact that you encountered someone much less mature than you are by far.

[@axain7784]

Congratulations, it will be the first of many. Collect them like medals and let them be your pride and joy; Let their incompetence be mere stepping stones to be set under you.

[@EmpressSectonia]

​@vielsafttrank7582 The Carian Lord Build. Carian Knight Sword. Regal Carian Septure, Some Glintstone/Carian sorceries, Carian Knight Shield (if you want), and Elden Lord Armor Set.

[@icebox1954]

Only magic gankers deserve such a treatment, especially if the noob (pretty much always a mage because it's baby mode) points down after the invader loses a 1v3. Scumbags.

[@ConnerFoxall]

People are really getting unhinged

[@lynxace1602]

I'm planning to play Elden Ring as my first souls game this month. I wanted to go magic (because non-TB games with satisfying magic system can be hard to find) and heard it ruins the experience etc. glad to see it's not really all that problematic. I wanna do a bows only and 2 handed sword only run for the 2nd and 3rd playthrough too, for the full experience

[@starboypluto]

Bows only is going to be terrible but don't let these weirdos tell you Joe to enjoy your experience it doesn't ruin you simply have to change your play style can magic be cheesy but so can melee but you're not gonna cheese bosses on accident

[@olu550]

Anything that can deal damage can beat the game with enough patience. Play however you like andd ignore the idiots

[@lynxace1602]

@@starboypluto thx, good to know. I've started with strength 2 handed swords as my first run, super fun stuff. still exploring Limgrave rn but I already beat the stone cat statue that breathes fire in the underground place

[@huaraches8934]

@@lynxace1602 so how you progressing so far since its been 9 days (just curious)

[@plipplop728]

I tried A LOT of builds in this game, and I will say, pure (or mostly) magic build are pain to newcomers. Those haters saying magic builds are too easy really never tried magic build from scratch.

[@CrimsonTear1996]

Im so glad someone with an audience finally said it. I like playing magic for the theme and I dont sit there and do all these cheese methods I just like the spells. Especially the sword sorceries and the big BONK. I play the game melee a lot too, and Ive never once felt like I was having an easier time using magic, there are some instances Im way stronger sure, but many instances feel way better with melee. Even Carian Slicer, as fun as that spell is, it cant get crits, nor can it parry in any way. Even Azure Comet isnt that busted without specific buffs. Tbh poise damage and crits are probably the most powerful thing in the game. Flame of the Redmanes on the misrecorde trivialized 90% of the bosses on my first playthrough.

[@multifleks]

I was about to write an entire novel about how magic isn't broken in either pve or 1v1 pvp encounters until I watched the full video, all I've to say now is that OW delivers based content as always. 7:48 I see no damage btw

[@doubletoked7054]

My first playthrough was a dex int build. But mostly used spells. Was the inverse of my Dark Souls playthroughs where i just used the Zweihander. Magic in ER is fun but its definitely a tight-butthole style. Nerves shredded knowing ill explode in like one or two hits, frantically running from bosses, and jug-chuggin like a thirsty teenager.

[@cataliniancu5318]

There is no need to die in one or two hits, no one says you can't have 50 vitality with an int build. Especially as you don't need nearly as much investment into stamina or equip load. Mages in ER routinely have 60 vitality so that they can facetank everything.

[@TrueNorthGaming47]

My first build was a pure int build. What you said about dealing with the mobs being more frustrating than melee brute force is true. A lot of these builds are only OP as a result of millions of people trying to min/max and then sharing their discoveries online. IMO the biggest issue with any oneshot builds, is you're depriving yourself of a lot of game content, because you never have to learn or adapt to an enemy's skillset. I feel like looking online for answers violates the "I solo-bolo'd the whole game because I'm super cool and skilled!" mentality more than any mage build does. A lot of these self imposed rules are goofy. If they were true gamers they'd go armorless, no hit, no ash, no summon, no guides, and fistfight their way through the game.

[@SirSleepwalker]

I played INT/DEX and I share your sentiment. It's constant rearranging of spells at sites of grace, reallocating flasks, changing staves etc. Switched to Rivers of Blood for Malenia and never came back to magic, bloodbath is more fun and straightforward exparience.

[@Thatwalrus27]

It’s so much easier to play caster of ANY kind, what are you on? Playing melee you actually have to dodge. And get skill. Sure, AOW’s are powerful, but Comet Azur and Glintstone Cometshard are more broken than most entire melee weapons in general😂 Sorcery has been easier in DS1, DS3, and Elden Ring, but these are the only ones I’ve played sorcery in. Probably the same in DS2, though.

[@ShiniiXO]

​​@@Thatwalrus27I've played as a sorcerer across all souls games and int actually felt strongest in ds2. Honestly, I don't know why people are complaining. Int has always been extremely strong

[@seliamila1005]

​@@Thatwalrus27yeah no, try to get cornered as a mage and a lot of enemy can dodge your spell

[@Thatwalrus27]

@@seliamila1005 Maybe don’t get cornered then😲

[@CurseSeer4561]

I did my NG+ run as a mage, and it basically tuned into a parry + misericord run with how aggressive a lot of the bosses and enemies are. The bosses that I could cheese felt like a reward from the suffering. Sorcery is ironically the PvP setup I use if I feel like sweating my ass off, because of how involved it is. When I want a braindead PvP experience I just switch to my double vyke’s madness build.

[@carian_moon]

As a mage myself, it’s a bit triggering when any other builds call us cringe but we’ve gotten used to it at this point tbh.

[@melonking281]

I agree Its fucking cringe As much as I hate the bandit curved sword build I dont bitch about it I learn to counter them

[@mohramdhan707]

We never cringe bro, some weapon and build also has it flaws like magic. some people need to control their d*ck and not poking people around with it

[@melonking281]

@@mohramdhan707 you have such a way with words

[@morningstar8501]

L

[@l8nghts]

@@morningstar8501commit

[@murderousbeav6587]

The sword sorceries and things like gavel of haima mixed in with weapons like helphens steeple make for a super fun playstyle imo. I'm yet to play a pure caster in vanilla and idk if I ever will. Something that would be cool is a staff with similar scaling to the clawmark seal just to better facilitate a spellsword playstyle.

[@schnoz2372]

That would be amazing. I love strength/int builds.

[@trevorfahey3819]

Wtf that's a fantastic idea

[@Captain_Sanders]

Dude you need to cosplay as one of those battlemages with a stone club

[@kaden-sd6vb]

imma have to remember these, yall got some good build ideas

[@therealforestelf]

I just tried out a Sword of Night and Flame Build and that made me get interested in trying out a mage build. my first build was Iron Ball / Star Fist straight up punching dragon feet, so I feel no shame trying out different things that include a more ranged approach without having to smell dragon feet. btw I love your voice and editing style! amazers, glad I found this channel!

[@UsernameyMcUsernameFace]

Elden Ring was my first soulsy experience, and without doing any particular research I decided on a spellsword build because I thought that would offer some flexibility (and because I thought it'd be cool). It's worth pointing out that some bosses in the game punish ranged players much harder than melee, so I had to get pretty good with my sword for some fights rather than just rely on magic. Hilariously the most prominent example of this would be the first Dragonic Tree Sentinel, which I encountered early because I decided to fill out as much of the map as possible before deciding where to go. The only boss that gave me more trouble was Malenia, and yet when I switched to melee I beat it first try.

[@higaiwokeru]

I’ve never been a big fan of pvp in the souls games, mainly cus i’m not that good at fighting other players and I can get steemed pretty easily but watching these videos is really entertaining and informative I knew rivers of blood and moonveil were infamous but didnt know that it was essentially fear mongering

[@Hammers_Peace]

Any souls vet will tell you the PvP is garbage anyway if they're honest, I literally had someone try to debate me on if performing an exploit was considered tech or not in PvP.

[@GiggaGMikeE]

@@Hammers_Peace PVP is fun in Souls if you take it just seriously enough that you aren't just trying to cheese your opponents constantly to win, but not seriously enough that you don't rage quit the moment you encounter someone who does.

[@zanido9073]

@@Hammers_Peace I took one look at Elden Ring PVP, saw the ABSURD latency, and had absolutely zero interest in trying it. If I want to PVP i'll play a game that has the netcode for it.

[@MaTtRoSiTy]

I played a melee character for my first full play through to 100% and it was hard but made a lot harder by the fact I still didn't really have a clue about a lot of the games mechanics. I have been on a sorcery/intelligence build for this playthrough and my prev experience made once nightmare bosses like Margit almost trivial. But there are also downsides to this kind of build that start to become much more obvious as you progress to late game areas

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

At least one notable thing is the lack of melee weapon options that can bottleneck your weapon selection. Take Dark Souls 3. If you're doing an Intelligence/Faith build with "enough" physical stats to meet prerequisites, your only melee options are really the Dark Hand, certain Saint Bident infusions, and then the Onyx Blade and MAYBE Friede's scythe. That's it. The Saint Bident is the only one that can even BE infused, the scythe really prefers to be dex/int and has wonky hitbox blind spots, meaning your weapon choices are a fist, a spear, and a thrusting great sword. That's basically it. And take, say, Midir. You're not getting anywhere with the Onyx Blade or Dark Hand, meaning you're either running the bident or the scythe. It's really a good drawback, considering most casters WILL get into melee eventually

[@qualiswilliams7403]

I think mage is one of the worst classes imo...I started as a bandit second class was mage the first thing I learned was you have to choose between 5 stats and that's when I learned every other normal build was better....mages have to debate on dex mind or endurance because int/vigor is an automatic...it's easy mode to mid game ...late game it's easily to hardest class to win with unless you have night sorcery... mostly because of stat distribution Edit: I forgot to mention most sorcery buffs intelligence perks come with major debuffs...wanna save mp got to sacrifice health..want extra intelligence got to sacrifice health ...it's always something for something never just here this should help

[@rorisangpitswane3595]

Magic: Incredible early game Good mid game Nerfed late game Bleed builds: Good early game Amazing midgame Good late game Melee: Good early game Good mid game Good late game What I’m trying to say is, every class and playstyle has its advantages. Melee honestly are consitantly good the whole game. Bleed Melee builds are even better. But magic builds struggle in the late game. There’s a trade off to be had. That’s why if you’re a mage build it’s better to transition into being a spellblade in the late game (i.e. Darkmoond Greatsword or Moonveil Katana) that way you’re good in both the early and mid game as well as the late game. TLDR; pure mages suck at the end game and their builds need to be optimised whereas other builds stay consistent the whole way through

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

@@rorisangpitswane3595 Mmmm. I feel like casters pop off at endgame though. Early game you do well because you can just not deal with things other characters have to, but usually midgame is where I feel things are hardest. You don't have the stats to do anything particularly well, you tend to not have the selection of weapons and spells that bring a rounded plan together or allow you to leverage your strengths well. You're usually deficient at most things, and barely competant at one. Except DS3, where the Dark Hand is just built different. Towards the end of midgame, you start getting those options, and then you snowball into lategame. You have the stats to do everything well, you get back your ability to just not engage with things you don't like, and then you are also a completely competent melee fighter on top of it, and you're even often tankier than average, since staff + off weapon tends to run lighter than an ultra weapon, two weapons, or a weapon and a good shield, so you just layer on thicc armor, and you get much better pace control over some of the most active bosses in their respective games. But, idk. I have much more experience playing mage oriented characters 'cuz it's fun, so I'm not super familiar with what endgame dedicated Str/Dex characters feel.

[@michaelbowman6684]

I don't understand how people can say magic falls off late game, being able to keep your distance from bosses and spam things like Night Comet (even easier if you utilize Spirit Ashes) is one of the easiest experiences I had playing Elden Ring, or even in my entire history with Soulsborne, compared to my first playthrough where I used a Heavy Greatsword prior to the speed of Colossal Weapons being buffed several times in a row and the Radahn nerf. Seriously, beating Radahn on patch 1.0 with a Colossal Weapon (without power stancing two of them and spamming jumping attacks), with no Spirit Ashes and no NPC or player Summons, was one of the hardest things you can do in Elden Ring, besides maybe doing the same thing against a 1.0 Malenia (which I didn't get to experience, unfortunately.) If you try to play Elden Ring like Dark Souls 3 with a regular old Vagabond with a Longsword and Kite Shield, you are in for a rough time. Ashes of War Spam, Stance Breaking and Riposting, and Spirit Ashes are Meta, and it seems like the game was at least partially designed with these systems in mind, because otherwise I don't see how they could have thought (for example) the Valiant Gargoyles were an okay and fair fight.

[@getsuryu7227]

Bro you cant do anything in elden ring a without players hating on it.

[@koryfunny]

I really like this casual Ranni avatar, and you really sound like her too xD btw, did you use a mod to make your character look like Ranni in game?

[@destinoo1792]

Fighting enemies from a far and killing them before they reach you is easier and no one can deny it, but that only applies to enemy encounters while exploreing, the moment you get surrounded u will have a hard time, boss fight also.

[@Potato_tomato47]

Aoe spells for groups and Carian sorcery on bosses they are literally perfect for bosses

[@matthewgrode9204]

Spiral shard meat grinder says otherwise

[@blackronin848]

There are literally melee weapons that clear enemies like butter

[@LordOfChaos.x]

​@SkeleTonHammer as a guy who has over 800 hours in ER a magc hybrid is way easier to play than a full melee and there is nothing denying it. Magic makes all encounters easier and some boss fights trivial.

[@jarlbalgruuf2415]

@@LordOfChaos.x you mean to tell me doing more things lets you do more things? An apt comparison would be full mage not hybrid.

[@aggrodkreg4321]

Elden Ring was the first time I ever touched Sorceries in any FromSoft game. As someone who came from having done Strength, Dex, and even Faith builds in the past? No, it was not easy at all. I had to change how I fundamentally played. It was legitimately hard for me sometimes to keep distance, when with every other style I played I would get up in the enemy's face.

[@icebox1954]

There's no skill in magic. Either your spell spamming kills the enemy or you summon (because you have no skill) and use the distraction to spam spells. You never really have to learn, being a mage all you have to do is run away from danger, spam spells rinse and repeat.

[@found6393]

@@icebox1954 It's plenty clear your Int stat is low.

[@KudoRedfox]

@@icebox1954 Melee strat be like: R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 heal R1 R1 R1 R1

[@icebox1954]

@@found6393 Int is for cowards, real men use strength. Go play with your contorted body ball kid.

[@SteelValkyrie202]

@@icebox1954 Says the guy that probably hasn't even *TRIED* being a mage. I know from experience that what you're saying is BS because not everything was as easy as you're making it out to be. But you go ahead a cope all you want because that's all you're really good at.

[@movespammerguyteam7colors]

I do appreciate the Kamehameha reference. I don’t have the current stats on either of my over leveled characters to use it yet. I can use Lightning Glaive and Adula’s Moonblade currently.

[@a.humphrey9640]

Having played different builds with different degrees of spell or incantation use, what I've arrived at is that outside of a few niche scenarios they're best used when mixed in with melee combat. Especially against bosses.

[@bogdan-ionut7660]

Magic and incantatins require a lot of prep time, for some it might be strong but in my case I have an easier time going balls to the walls with my weapons and even on my hybrid builds magic and incantations are either for buffing or just as an additional tool to deal some extra damage or just stance break enemies by using giand glintstone swords. But I love using spells in my melee builds tho

[@smokinggnu6584]

I'll pick Night Comet over the normal Glintstone Comet for PvE, as the mobs don't dodge the Night one. Also, i didn't use the Comet Azur deathstar beam tactic because i was doing perfectly well just using Spiral Shards to delete bosses, especially the big ones.

[@il1keicecream]

when i played elden ring i said no magic we gonna destroy the world when i found out i could get married my whole point of view changed

[@Showu99able]

I like mixing things up with my builds, started out going pure sorcery, but quickly transitioned into a spellblade/gish build after I found weapons like the DMGS, Helphens Steeple and Moonveil etc. I really love power stancing the DMGS and Helphens Steeple and busting out spells when I need an edge over something or want to clear out mobs with AOE. I still get my skull caved in by some enemies if Im not tactful though.

[@seanbrown2294]

My first playthrough was pretty much a Mage Samurai. Second playthrough currently is no sorcery at all and only Buffing incants while playing as a Knight. I will say its quite the difference in difficulty in Elden Ring but i do miss waving my Staffs around and melting enemies with my magic.

[@John_James]

Moonveil go brr

[@AggroAggron]

As someone who just finished my first playthrough having planned on doing a Magic Only Cheese Azur Comet build. Some bosses my friends told me to worry about became trivial and others became absolutely miserable. Good luck fighting things like a Rune Bear or Melania without using atleast some weapon.

[@DjDolHaus86]

I'm just about to finish my first playthrough (godfrey/radagon left, just sweeping the map to make sure I haven't forgotten anything) as a dex/quality build and have thought a few times that some of these bosses and encounters would have been a lot easier if I could just hang back and spam ranged spells but at the same time some of them would be a lot more difficult if I couldn't just trade dps while they were trying ride me like a pony.

[@EngineerOfVaul]

Played magic only on my first playthrough and runebear still gives me legit nightmares. Absolutely miserable boss to fight against with just magic.

[@Wolftatze]

Played through the game four times now. First Str/Faith, then Faith with Pyromancy focus, then Dex/Arc (Yeah, Bleed/Poison, what else), now sorcery with Death focus. And I have to say: The Devs did a wonderful job of balancing the game. Certain enemies that I just swept away with the Beast Club in Str/Faith absolutely annihilated me in Dex. Bosses that were an absolute menace with Fire Incantations were super easy with sorceries. And vice versa, in...well, everything. So, yeah, some things get easier, some things get harder. The points of hardship just shift around

[@ShadowProject01]

@@Wolftatzethank you. This is exactly my experience. Not sure why some melee players are so salty about magic. It’s fun but comes with its own set of troubling encounters jist like melee players.

[@Ming_7322]

Pure intelligence in general is harder for level to level open world gameplay. People forget that souls levels are filled with traps, ambushes, massive hoards, etc. People who think magic is broken only show comet Azur and people destroying massive and slow enemies who are particularly vulnerable to magic. If you’re caught in an ambush in a dungeon your basically dead if the enemies get close, and going through massive and long levels requires a lot of management and planning to maximize FP usage

[@IDilectus]

Whats the name of that music playing in the background?? You can really hear it at the end it is quite soothing.

[@Gamfluent]

One thing I noticed is strength and dex(two builds praised for “being the true way to play) ahah easily accessible weapons from the start that carry you all the way till the end if you wish to keep them, while int only has the meteor staff and then lusats staff which requires more FP usage

[@threemooseqateers9689]

from my experience with int builds, the main thing is that the it is pretty difficult at first, but once you get past a certain level (and then again once you meet the requirements to use comet azure) the game becomes actually pitifully easy, to the point of disappointing myself because it was my second playthrough and I felt I was not able to enjoy cool bosses because they just fucking evaporated under the unfathomable power of my big fuck off laser. But this was my choice, and I'm actually happy to have the option to do cool shit like that. I don't want it nerfed or removed, because the game doesn't force you to play that way by any means, and at the end of the day it is still terrible in pvp.

[@fullfildreamz]

But you can do the same with melee.

[@threemooseqateers9689]

@@fullfildreamz true, but I'd say that for PvE, it is to a much higher extent. But I'm no expert.

[@kuda1549]

you’re also not factoring the fact that you didn’t use a magic build for your first time. you’ll already have familiarity so in general every enemy would be easier for you regardless 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@ShouPow]

Landing comet azur on most enemies is fraught with problems, considering they mostly dodge, especially bosses. So having comet azur still didn't really trivialize the game. Tho astels meteor... Might have. Tho I still had to time it all well and keep perfect range to defeat the elden beast.

[@smokingmirror8482]

I think the reason people say that sorcery makes the game easier is because the playstyle of a sorcerer eliminates the element of risk-taking that melee playstyles have. Instead of getting close to the boss and hitting him all you do is run away, throw spells and dodge whenever they throw a ranged attack or charge at you. Getting up in there face with a melee weapon actually requires you to take some risks. As someone who only started playing elden ring 2 months ago and was able to beat the game 5 times i can confidently say that my sorcery run was by far the easiest of them all because i did not have to actually get close to the boss to damage him. All i had to do was cast a spell and run away i never had to get close to the boss to deal damage and i never felt under pressure when facing them. Also running out of fp is not a problem when you get star light shards. The funny thing is i even had the wrong set up. I used the wrong staff, forgot to do Seluvis"s questline for the magic scorpion talisman and I DIDN'T EVEN USE TERRA MAGICA. I did not use the best sorcery buff in the game and i was still destroying bosses with Comet Azur. The reason people say sorcery makes the game easier is because it gives you a ranged playstyle to deal with bosses and therefore it takes away from the risk-taking and learning experiences that a melee player has to go through. Also, for the record i like sorceries and incantations and i think the game would be boring if every build had the same playstyle but spells like Comet Azur are just too powerful in PvE.

[@argosvinandi5064]

Arcane status builds are the strongest in general. There are definitely a few specific builds that compete but those are built around a particular weapon or use a lot more buffs than you need with bleed/poison/rot/frost/sleep

[@omarelfakihperez4466]

Im doing an int build run at the moment and something I found out is that the right spell can trivialise the right situation, but that is because the right element in the game can trivialize the right situation as a whole

[@SonicC33]

Solid vid with on point arguments 😎👍 Although , asking the souls community to stop bullying filthy magic users , is like asking sharks not to bite surfers 😅😅😅

[@kubomagico8853]

Actually shark attacks are incredibly rare compared to the souls community bullying mages Quick Google search shows that in the last 10 years 12.6 people got attacked per billion people on Earth

[@kubomagico8853]

Mage bullying in the other hand is like 1.5 out of 2

[@SonicC33]

​@@kubomagico8853 😅 , appreciate the statistics , lol it's not the frequency I wanted to emphasize though , its the intent ! 😅 If I m a shark and I m swimming carelessly , and I see a surfer with his annoying surfboard above me , then rest assured I will not tolerate this provocative behaviour and I will bite ! 🤣🤣

[@OmniGman]

​@@SonicC33 Sharks don't actually attack surfers on sight. They have easier, far more edible prey than a guy clutching on to a hard surfboard for dear life. Sharks only attack surfers when they mistake them for their actual food (seals, large fish, etc.), or when they are so hungry they're desperate. Most predators don't actually want smoke with humans. We're the textbook definition of 'not worth the trouble'. Only the big boys who are starving will risk it, or if a human is dumb/unlucky enough to enter their territory with no protection. In your analogy, the mage haters are sharks who complain when the surfers they attacked shoot back at them with harpoon guns!

[@SonicC33]

​@@OmniGman Hahahah ! pretty educative thank you 🙏 So in your end game , what you are saying is that mages are the spearhead of human technology harpooning and all , and the unga bungas who complain are intelligent sharks who are aware of the injustice of nature of fighting against technology 😅😅😅 or something like that 😋👍

[@vagabondsoul1286]

In my experience Strength is the real easy-mode. Find a golem's halberd, put heavy infusion Lion's Claw on it, and literally cake-walk through the entire game. For anything else that this don't work on, you got Great Stars.

[@jbark678]

I'm running an int/faith hybrid. My first full caster since getting the game. I'd say it makes things much easier in a general sense, but it's not full on "press button to win" especially for me playing with low end (wanted to know what it's like). P.S. Lovin' the discus of light. It's my go to.

[@julsss5297]

As a person who watches anime and plays some of those games, i feel the need to have variety in my build lol

[@maggot848]

Would've been weird hearing ranni hate on magic lmao

[@Hypostasy]

Light roll mages that know what there doing are literally unkillable

[@tek512]

Skill issue. You have to bait them into making a mistake. They're not unkillable, just mildly irritating.

[@Hypostasy]

@@tek512 I made a light roll build while using faith instead of int and all I did was roll away and spam rocks and I never lost, most matches wher hairless. Also, I said a mage that knew what they where doing, they can just roll away and spam whatever the hell they have and make frame trsps

[@Chetooooooo]

​​@@tek512I would say that they are more than mildly irritating, but yes you can still outplay them for sure, just a boring fight where they just run away and only start playing the game again when they are a comfortable 93 meters away makes it so that, while not necessarily hard to deal with, I would rather have spent that 40 minute chase, that sometimes even ends with them anti-climatically severing themselves, by fighting several people that aren't afraid to grab a big stick and beat me up

[@tek512]

@@Chetooooooo Yeah, can't disagree there. It does get boring. On the other hand, you've got aggressive mages that use specific spell combinations to bait you into the magical equivalent of true combos. *Those* are fun to play against. Yeah, you're probably gonna die if you screw up even once, but that's part of the fun of fighting them.

[@eldenringpvpenthusiast1710]

I love awkward timed spells like the bubbles, I haven't cared to try, but recalls scepter with 80 int and the talismans that ramp up damage probably one shots.

[@nathanwhittle7597]

I quite like using magic for a time to get ahead with a new character and slowly transition into a hybrid or just respec into another class, my current run I’ve gone for a confessor but got the Demi human staff just to give me a boost until I can find a decent weapon

[@pilebunker420]

every build in elden ring pve feels easy at the end of the game because even if you don't use a "gimmick", stance damage is easy to break. I think in older games the difference was bigger.

[@rafsandomierz5313]

Some bosses are just less resistant to certain things like Radagon isn't much resistant to physical, Frostbite, Fire and magic damage in general. However he is more resistant to holy, it's also very easy to over level the bosses.

[@qzmicronsr9067]

"Caestus would like a word.."

[@someone-ji2zb]

Depends. If you opt to not use bleed and go 'pure' melee with no ashes of war/spells/incantations, then the game is no longer as easy. Still very doable mind you (my first play through was dual scimitar, standard), but the damage difference is monstrous no matter how you stat allocate. Opting to not use any type of skill/spell/incantation is gimping yourself for certain. Only exception to that being colossal swords that trivialize the game with jump R2 and crouch attack spam. Stagger everything, including bosses, with extreme burst damage.

[@PoisonJarl71501]

I think the biggest reason mages are hated is the mfs who spam same spell. Star shower is the worst. You can’t always avoid it and the desperate ones will spam it nonstop when they can’t hit you any other way, usually resulting in chip damage for a LOT if they have 80 int and lusats. I used to hate mages and never played one. Then I played one and realized just how trivial they made the game, pve and pvp. I started playing with spell combos and melee mix and it’s definitely the funnest build to play. I don’t care for pure melee as it’s just boring and all you have to manage is stamina.

[@qzmicronsr9067]

Thank you, idk who everyone else comes across, but when I think Magic? The only thing that really makes me hate it is star shower. Comet spells you can work around. Can't work around the OP tracking, hit stun, and damage of star shower.

[@TheSoulLessOne90]

I've never done a full magic build but i would give it a try, thanks for the tips!

[@blottedcenter4348]

I’m thinking of getting this game at some point, and I definitely plan on trying different builds, people take this game waaaaay to surious, I don’t plan to use the mimic tier cuz I feel d be abit to easy for me, other then that ima do everything the game offers

[@LyllianaTV]

mage build is no different than any spell base builds. when you run out of fp or spells, you just had to resort to stabbing just like what Richtofen says when he runs out of ammo.

[@mohramdhan707]

I usually double staff so i just hit them with my staff and that 5 damage per hit was quite painful in the ass

[@100StepProgram]

“I shall have to resort to, STABBING!”

[@LyllianaTV]

@@mohramdhan707 when you have a melee weapon that has int scaling. Why not use them...

[@mohramdhan707]

@@LyllianaTV i dont like sword

[@mohramdhan707]

@@LyllianaTV yeah yeah i can carry night and flame but its boring

[@carlosbeltran804]

i have played the games a bunch of times and completed it with completelly different builds, yes magic has it advantages but also its disadvantages. Every strategy can be OP if played correctly or useless if played badly. Sorceries can be really strong in both pvp or pve but you need a nice setup and usually can be killed in one or two hits so you have to learn the enemies paterns and learn how to keep your distance, if not you will die.

[@atomatopia1]

“Wah, magic is too easy” -Average Rivers of Blood Spammer Also imagine someone said “melee makes the game too easy because some weapons like rivers of blood cheese enemies”. That would sound wild

[@theoutergod8666]

Funny thing really. I always loved magic in... everything. So my first DS and Elden Ring runs were with magic. A, because I didn't believe myself to go melee and secondly, because magic. But my second playthrough with a greatsword was in many places actually more involved and I loved it. I will never ever stop using magic, but sometimes... Melee is just fun as well.

[@KaIe_]

Swift glintstone shard is a must for all mage builds in PvP. It’s super easy to punish people when using it. It’s also great for chasing down gank hosts like how I did.

[@MaelstromTheDemon]

For my first playthrough of Elden Ring, I didn't even start using magic until I was well into late game, and it was purely because I had no idea how to incorporate it into my playstyle, which was largely centered around high mobility via Quickstep and Bloodhound's Step while wielding greatswords. I used the Lordsworn Greatsword for more than half the playthrough until I found Moonveil and later acquired a Knight's Greatsword in Leyndell. I thought magic wouldn't be very practical in my build, nor would it gel well with my playstyle. I later experimented with the Darkmoon Greatsword and the Adula's Greatblade Sorcery, but it wasn't until my 3rd playthrough that I really started experimenting with magic, and it took just as much adjustment and practice as learning the melee did. Magic's only as good as how you utilize it.

[@AdeptKing]

I'm doing a co-op run with my friend through Elden Ring and we have polar opposite builds. I'm the strength/faith melee character while he's the intelligence sorcery build(he kind of wants to lean into faith and arcane a bit too). Neither one of us seems particularly more OP than the other at least damage wise(I'm more experienced so I have an easier time compared to him). He does more burst damage than I do but his spells miss a lot and he runs out of mana a lot. I do more consistent damage since if I miss its just "oh well try again". I tend to get hit more but that's because I'm the one running in while he stays in the back. Its a good thing he doesn't get hit a lot since he would die a lot faster than I would. The point of the game is to have fun at the end of the day. I picked my melee build because I love being a knight and overpowering my foes with sheer skill and outdoing them up close. My friend chose magic because well magic is cool and powerful.

[@ps5_trials]

Raani's accent, on point meme game, vsauce music while explaining. You earned a sub my lady.

[@iggytheincubus]

For what it's worth, I typically go with a Quality build with Claymore (my beloved), with a bit of Faith for the support, utility, and healing it provides, as my first playthrough through these games. I'm currently running a pure Mage build in Elden Ring just to mix it up a bit. So, here's my perspective Early Game: incredibly hard, as your offensive potential is limited exclusively to your own highly limited resources of FP and Blue Flasks, though this becomes much more manageable once Carian Slicer enters the picture. This little balancing act is something that builds like I typically use don't even have to consider bc stamina is your only resource to seriously manage. Midgame: comparatively easier than early game. You've got a few more tools to make use of, enabling you to adapt around the enemy to some extent. Not a lot of enemies outside of Liurnia are terribly resistant to magic, and even as a pure Mage you have options between the boulder and night maiden's mist. Late game: full disclosure, I lost my save after beating fire giant and didn't get to the haligtree or Mohgwyn Palace. Moving on Late game things start getting nutty. Those options I mentioned get absurdly wide and you can tailor your fight to every boss. Carian Piercer staggerlocks draconic tree sentinels for fucks sakes. And that's not even getting into the fact that the power wash exists. Margit, the fire giant, I melted both of them when they started standing still for their phase 2 transition. You can straight up SKIP Mohg (we saw that video). As for the enemies that are programmed to dodge projectiles? Night Sorcery says hello. The sheer potential variety of how you can dish out your spells makes it easier late game than what I'm used to in PvE I don't pvp. Take this all as you will.

[@donger-regnod]

Any time the souls community gets mad about something, all I can ever think is skill issue.

[@the_furry_inside_your_walls639]

Honestly, yeah. I've had a couple molders get mad at me because I managed to one-shot them with Bolt of Gransax's ash of war. Unironically a skill issue if you get hit by that thing since it has such a long telegraph and is pretty easy to dodge.

[@icebox1954]

@@the_furry_inside_your_walls639 Depends on whether it's a gank or not. It's quite easy to be hit by something when you're being distracted by two other dudes trying to kill you in close combat or one who is magic spammer and the other bum rushes you. Not really a skill issue if you can't see the person while he's off-screen.

[@donger-regnod]

@@icebox1954 skill issue.

[@icebox1954]

@@donger-regnod I can dodge based on sound alone so not a problem anymore but yeah, partly a skill issue.

[@SkoomaGodDovahkiin666]

@@icebox1954 "WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH MUH GANKS!!!!!1!!!1! NO FAIR!!!!" Please, Git gud.

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

As someone who loves doing shield magic, magic weapon in my slots Yeh It's mostly that certain guys get easy, and so people think the entire game scales relative to that, when it's actually usually about even, maybe slight advantage to magic based on the fact that if there's a really messed up normal enemy you can just throw stuff at them until they die. For the most part, like much else, it's just down to build and weird matchups. A busted build is a busted build

[@thefoxwolfdraconis]

Honestly, appreciate those larval tears so much - respect’d a lot trying different stat spreads on main. But still love str/fth the most. Silurias tree, ordivis’ greatsword, beastclaw greathammer - true smite weapons. Its been a blast seeing an enemys hp go down by a third from silurias woe boosted by godfreys icon and alexsnders shard, same for ordives’ vortex but with easy poise breaking. And point blank Regal Beastclaw is devastating, did a shi ton of damage on radahn once!

[@tek512]

Used sorcery on my first playthrough specifically because people were crying about it so much. It does turn the game into a bit of a joke. Terra Magica + Prince of Death's Staff + Ancient Death Rancor = arguably more broken than kamehameha. Pulls double duty because it's so good for mix-ups and baiting in PvP.

[@_jeidyn_]

So do most dedicated builds, I think the only real issue is that wizards have so many different options to just pull out of there pocket and nuke you/pve in like 2 seconds or if there laggy you just die all of a sudden, at least with melee builds you can kinda see it coming and predict what aow they have plus it's generally harder to 1 tap without buff stacking, its not impossible but you can see most setups coming that can do it if you pvp often

[@tek512]

@@_jeidyn_ You're not wrong.

[@thestylemage2092]

My strength build knocking every boss to the ground after 2 or 3 jumps/wa also trivialised most of the game and it had a munch easier time dispatching enemies, and don't get me started on my dex/arcane build, I literally rushed Morgott through Radahn because I wanted to use his sword and decided, yeah I can just spam health levels because bleed is that strong.

[@mr.nobodyeldensouls]

The comet sorcery with 70 or 80 intelligence comes out so fast and hits so hard and as a invader trying to focus on one while getting spammed in the back it what makes it annoying. But the crimson whorl bubble tear cures that for enough time to dispose of the dirty wizard 😂

[@ItsJustPunch]

Theres a glitch that makes that tear last forever ;)

[@mr.nobodyeldensouls]

@@ItsJustPunch yeah it used to happen by accident when I took bleed damage and bombarded with magic. But now it looks like you can do it any time you want now 🤣 I may just make a video of my own to help spread the news. I wouldn't want to use it all the time but I'm sure it would be funny to see how they react

[@PoorCodeine]

Wow dude that’s like so cool 🤓

[@mr.nobodyeldensouls]

@@PoorCodeine totally 🤓😎🤣

[@atomatopia1]

“I started as wretch and now I’m behind on levels” Uhhh, yeah, that’s the point

[@redgeoblaze3752]

This is what I needed to see as a magic main in all these games. my first character in any RPG is always a magic user, I've never seen anyone play their first souls game as a magic user fully. I've seen a few start out as one, but always transition to being the standard sword/shield knight character eventually. The fact that you need to worry about your spell uses completely changes the dynamic of the whole game. Now every miss is devastating, and you're going to miss a lot as a magic user. Enemies past Dark Souls 1 seem designed to side-step nearly every spell, which puts us in the same position as melee users. Wait for an opening to strike. Range essentially means nothing starting in Dark Souls 3 where every enemy has a gap-closer they'll use constantly if you get far enough. Some bosses actually benefit from you sticking close to them regardless. Elemer and Mogh come to mind. I've always argued that for PvE, magic was only ever overpowered in Demon's Souls. From people who've actually tried it, I've actually heard it being called very underpowered in Dark Souls 3. But people will show compilations of players with 0 investment in health or stamina, and maxed out intelligence practically one-shotting mid-game bosses with a late-game spell, and take that to mean the entire playstyle is baby-easy mode without ever trying it themselves. Actually try using Comet Azur on most bosses, and it'll be the same thing almost every time. They dodge or spring forward to interrupt you. Maybe the one time out of thirty it does work could be considered overpowered. Fair enough, using comet azur with every buff known to tarnished can be pretty overpowered. But I never see people claiming that weapons as a whole are overpowered just because of Rivers of Blood.

[@eliaspanayi3465]

Magic is really balanced in pvp because in my experience I only need to hit a mage twice before they die. Plus the erdtree greatshield exists which is my go to mage b gone item

[@sulevjaaniste5394]

Did my 1st playthrough as mostly mage, since I used Moonveil as well. Was good for clearing some base mobs, as well as annoying fights that make playing mage painful. The Black Knife Ringleader was probably the most painful fight I did. Overall an interesting experience.

[@antoineguerrier2965]

@@sulevjaaniste5394 There is an easy counter to auto-dodging nimble enemies: "delayed spells". By that I mean all those spells that have a delay between the cast and when the projectile fires off. Things like Magic Glintblade, Ancient Death Rancor or the Moon Spells if you're feeling cocky. Those enemies read your inputs and dodge when you cast. (Technically they read the animation.) So by using those spells they will dodge too early. Homing spells like Glintstone Stars also work really well.

[@sulevjaaniste5394]

@@antoineguerrier2965 that's precisely how I fought Malenia, but the Ringleader really doesn't give great openings and is constantly in your face regardless of distance you put between her and you, she always closes it fast. Not to mention the jump attack with destined death, covers a large area and pretty much 1 shots.

[@antoineguerrier2965]

@@sulevjaaniste5394 I used my hidden spell for him, the one I reserve for obnoxious fights : Carian Slicer.

[@robrib2682]

I have played DS2 pre SotFS, magic does not make elden ring easier. If anything it changes what enemies are difficult because you specialize in a specific type of damage (if you want to see what magic trivializing parts of the game, play DS2 and rush heavy/improved soul arrow

[@Bitter-Wounds]

2 had better balance in terms of enemy resistances, idk if that was a pre or post scholar thing but it felt nice

[@robrib2682]

@@Bitter-Wounds overall yeah, its just early game pre SotFS that magic is OP and where it got that reputation.... and people like to blame crystal soul spear spam on that (while its a problem for pvp in every other title, but hey, convenient thing to blame)

[@solarizexhc]

i used to be a magic hating sweat but i grew out of it back in ds2 when i learned the appeal of themed hybrid builds. i made a heide knight lightning build with all the heide weapons and lightning miracles and realized it just made no sense to obstinately refuse to utilize game mechanics. since then all my builds across the games have utilized casting in some capacity, it's just more fun to have more options beyond pressing light attack and heavy attack

[@Gabrielghg3314]

I made my first strength build yesterday... Killed Renalla with 3 hits, Great Axe+War Cry, Roar medallion + Axe Medallion, lv45 30 strength landed a combo of 2 charged hits staggering during the animation and hitting for 1200 each, lv45... I've never done a boss so quick in my life it was less than 10 seconds on the second phase

[@noirekuroraigami2270]

level 45 with 30 strength vs Renalla. Bruh she isn't a hard boss, it seems like overkill

[@emprahtherocket8175]

Honestly, I loved incantations and pyromancies being separated. Once they introduced incantations with FIRE spells, aka called Pyromancies being grouped with faith spells, I was mad. Why? What happened to the pyromancy flames? I loved pyromancies. They were actually unique and fun.

[@reynauldwhistles2338]

Wich pyro iteration did u prefer? Ds1 and 2 or ds3 way?

[@emprahtherocket8175]

@@reynauldwhistles2338 I think I prefer the Ds3 way since I haven't dabbled in Ds2 or Ds1 in a long time. The fact that you don't have to get a quantity of the same spell, get and consume an item to recharge your spells mid combat, or do a glitch to make it infinite makes pyromancies in dark souls 3 the best iteration.

[@xXLunatikxXlul]

@@reynauldwhistles2338 DS2 pyros were so inventive and unique - probably the best and most fun to use as well. Outcry, Warmth, Fire Snake, and Forbidden Sun all come to mind 🔥

[@Ghorda9]

the old pyromancies are still in the game, their called flame monk and firegiant incantations.

[@user-jr3zr2mp9c]

Ds2 had the best system imo, it was stupid to make a whole set of high damage attacks with 0 investment

[@traveler5525]

I feel like Magic in Elden Ring is a lot like Magic in D&D, in that being unless you have some very specific set up early on to make you stronger, Magic's gonna be a little weak early in, but becomes a very powerful tool as you go on. People who decide to be a ranged character relying on resource are just more tactical melee characters; so they have my respect.

[@user-vx5ki2pi7i]

Question am i weird for liking the spell sword stereotype build? (Melee weapon in one hand magic related item in the other)

[@simongotborg3866]

I'm guessing people are still stuck in the Demon's Souls mindset, where many of the enemies weren't really built do deal with kiting and being one of the people who beat the game was actually kind of rare (not because it was harder, just less popular). The franchise game design has gotten a lot better at forcing ranged players to interact with enemies, and it's not like "I beat Elden Ring" is a particularely noteworthy achievement anyway. It's one of those things that takes practise, but most people will do it if they put their mind to it. Also, circle strafing with your shield up to get back stabs is like the go to cheese for melee builds up until DS3 (and it still kind of works) so it's not like you have to be "skilled" to play melee.

[@ZirixStrarstrider]

The game WASN'T easy with magic on my first playthrough. My character was made of glass (Was a spellblade with 19 vigor until Astel/GoldenGodfrey) And Astel almost make me ragequit the game, because i was doing dung damage to him.

[@user-jr3zr2mp9c]

I mean all builds suck with low vigor

[@leandllima]

I've always used str/dex builds on souls games. When I was told that Elden Ring had some actually useful magic, I just had to try. Its pretty fun to use all those sorceries and all the "forbidden" int weapons, so yeah, just enjoy the game and screw the anti-fun gatekeepers

[@michaelp4387]

if you think about it, spamming aow is just the same as spamming magic, the weapon is just a staff with one very powerful spell.

[@dreemgoat342]

As someone who went through their first playthrough with mostly magic (2 staves) I can say that it did not lower the difficulty, in fact it may have raised it

[@johnetgar1217]

I built a lvl 150 mage with 80 int, using the meteor staff in the off-hand and the Carian Regal Scepter in the main. In pve, if you have summons or collaborators to draw aggro, yes absolutely, it is bonkers easy to blast bosses out of existence. I tried to challenge myself just a bit by using only the two staffs, no other weapons, but with 40 mind, I need maybe two blue flasks to get through a boss so far. Haven't reached Altus Plateau yet, but yeah. And in pvp as a summoned cooperator, it's totally true that span casting or using Regal's ash when the invader tries to charge is easy mode. You're a glass cannon that dies after two hits, but it's still a cake walk I think.

[@reynauldwhistles2338]

No thats the thing you can play whit whatever build you want but in elden ring there is 0 nada no excuse to be a glass canon just be a canon if you play pve chabge one of your talisman slots for a defense talisman depending on the area you are, and on pve or pvp 50 vigor is the least reccomended vigor again you can play however you want im just reminding you that you can do 7% less damage but get a ton of hp and defense instead.

[@thestylemage2092]

Well once again any build can easily get through bosses with cooperators or summons (most melee builds especially can easily use the mimic to great effects). Like with a strength build you can continuously knock bosses down before they get through their attacks.

[@thehotd0g8]

Comet always messes me up, 1 screw up and ive lost half my hp and its so spamable. Rancor call is so spamable but you can normally just run into it Moonveil hits like a truck and has decent range and if im not actively looking out for it i get caught off guard. It also doesnt help that i have 10 intelligence on my build and thefore i also have no magic resistance

[@Reaper13765]

I do not have mutch experience with Elden Ring but alot of it is in PVP Just get up close and personal and keep them under pressure! That pretty mutch takes away any ability from them to deal damage since they try to get away! Wait for them to roll and when you see the roll? Thats when you should attack so the hit lands when the enemy stops rolling! Worked for me so far! Have not lost a single fight to a mage

[@xXLunatikxXlul]

I still wish Rykard's Racor(the sorcery) could fly through objects/environmental stuff.

[@_jeidyn_]

You must face dumb wizards then lol the one's I have been facing will noob veil spam roll catches quite scary accurately the moment you try to close on them, or spam rancor so you can't see them then wait to kill you with some 1 tap😅 a magic build is very lethal with someone competent and willing to cheese people significantly more so then any other build, I think only dual Speer can match it for raw damage and consistency of hits

[@yukimiasma9590]

My first journey to become an Elden Lord was supposed to be a Moonveil Dex Int build then it turned into a 80 int, the rest to vigor with some on mind and endurance so I can spam Carian Slice

[@Dan-qy6zv]

You are right about the self imposed challenge part. It recently was going through Elden Ring trying to go full solo, no summons, no magic, nothing. And when I got to Malenia, i was NOT having fun. I was getting frustrated and thought to myself "I don't want to use the mimic tear". And then I thought to myself, "Wait, why don't I want to use it?" It was then I realized the self imposed challenge i put on myself was only making the game less fun for myself. So, while I didn't use the mimic tear, i did summon other players. One got smoked, while me and the other did something akin to an epic anime fight with Malenia. It was then I realized, "Oh. It's not just the challenge or rage inducing moments that makes it fun. It's the fun moments like this that make it fun."

[@_ariosto1519]

Just like Rogier, biggest chad in the game, I combine both might and magic 😂 How about collapsing stars in pvp?

[@Nobody32990]

It has fantastic combo potential

[@ziggenplays1208]

Intelligence Builds are really good at PvB. They struggle quite a bit with PVP and are okay at PVE, assuming you're using an int weapon because you're constantly trying to save HP and FP

[@milothan-poirier570]

Rykard's great rune helps quite a lot at PVE when playing as mage, allows you to spend almost all your flasks into Cerulean while exploring long dungeons.

[@TD-ug4mg]

Soooooo liking the variety of magic instead of dual wielding dex or super heavy greatsword/hammer builds is bad?

[@thelordofcow5639]

I've played a magic build as one of the last builds I tried, but I would always add melee weapon into it because they were so much better, usually with ice spear because of how devastating it was. for the most part a magic build in the early game was easier because I had ranged and melee options against bosses, but the academy was a brutal slog due to the magic resistance, and yet it was one of the most important areas in the game for a magic build to go. late game was fine for the most part. while I could occasionally turn bosses into swiss cheese with ease, such as mogh, melania, and elden beast. some bosses were significantly more difficult because they could ignore my spells, were way too mobile, or hugged my face the entire fight such as godfrey, radagon, and elmer. magic has very little utility compared to faith builds, and imo faith/arc/dex is still by far the most powerful build in the game due to it's extreme versatility.

[@jasonjordan8376]

It’s definitely easier in PvE. I was a melee character at first, the switched to magic, and it was a bit easier to beat enemies.

[@That-One-Friend01]

Katana because samurai cool

[@ErosXCaos]

As a console user, pressing one button to scroll through all my spells is too unwieldy. I make melee/caster hybrids, with a couple utility spells, and one ranged option. I actually considered it a challenge run in DS2 to do Sorcery/Dagger only in Company Of Champions, because I was unskilled at going full mage. It’s tougher than I thought. I noticed bosses lasted longer because I always needed proper spacing and timing, bc spell tracking isn’t great. My melee builds love to roll into attacks and punish bosses, and could generally be more aggressive.

[@NotAGoodUsername360]

7:15 I thought you were legally obligated to scream *"KAAAAAMEEEEEEEHAAAAAAMEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAA!!!"* when using that spell...

[@Yves_Morales]

"They hate us because they ain't us"