Why is this beautiful £14K Porsche 997 S so cheap? + fab MAN MATHS!

[@arroyovaquero]

My wife bought herself a brand new 997 in October 2004 (54 reg) and it has been her daily drive ever since. Now done 95K miles and no thoughts of replacing it yet. Wonderful car to drive and I often think it must be nearly unique as there cannot be many early 1 owner early 997s about.

[@GRACEORT]

Awesome! What’s gone wrong to date with it?

[@jesseburford6340]

I just sold one of these, your maths is not quite right there after running one for 4 years and this is from someone who owns their own engineering work shop so labour was free. When parts needs replacing it ain't fiesta money, and every morning you are concerned about the taps of death. I had a lengthy chat with Hartech before buying mind at 70k on the clock. They were very helpful but insinuated that bore scoring was inevitable at some point and 3.8 were most effected because of the bigger capacity. Advised to always have 10k ready for an engine rebuild with inflation that is now 15k. That dodgu gear change you felt is an easy fix mind. Plastic part under centre console

[@dimi911]

Well said

[@alexmorgan3435]

Yeah I think he was being a bit naive with his ideas of running costs. It could turn into a huge money pit. Bore scoring sounds frighteningly expensive. A set of discs, pad and tyres is going to cost a lot more than a similar aged complete fiesta is going cost. Still it looks good.

[@dimi911]

@@alexmorgan3435 it's funny when you see other youtubers buying "bargain" supercars such as R8s, Bentleys etc and they put them on a ramp, the state of these cars...most are proper money pits and one wouldn't know where to start from with repairs/servicing....there is no such thing as a bargain and well sorted sports car or supercar

[@samcourt6228]

Yeah, sounds like man maths at its best! 😂 As with all of these things, it’s not the buying but the running. At this price point, you either dodge the bullet or you get stung with things like engine rebuilds.

[@youngsyr]

Precisely this - as a Cat S, that car is not cheap at £14k. Bore score is a wear issue and that particular engine is the most prone to it - bringing a £15k bill with it when it eventually happens.

[@Weakeyedominant]

Funny I was looking at this model this week. But haven't seen any less than 22k. Where are these 14k porsche 911s

[@toodyface]

Agreed, 14k? I don't think so.

[@StewyB68]

Excellent viewpoint and totally agree, having run a 996 in the past (issues resolved before I owned it) it’s a first-class daily and I’m looking to pick up one soon to use again as daily- driver. Far more involved, rewarding and characterful to own than usual stuff in same price bracket (Audi yawn-mobiles et al). Anyone who hasn’t owned/driven one, I’d recommend it! Buy a good ‘un and you won’t regret.

[@2702simmo]

Bought a 996 in July as a daily and love it

[@gwarlow]

Best way to keep operating costs down for this car, is to keep it in your garage and look at it every so often. Cheers.

[@anthonyxuereb792]

A double click thumbs up!

[@Chrissy-H]

Or get the spanner’s out yourself :-)

[@lowcountrydawg2525]

That totally defeats the purpose of owning such a car. It's not an investment, it's a toy. Enjoy it by using it.

[@Chrissy-H]

It’s like saving your girlfriend for the next bloke.

[@jamescaley9942]

It's the repairs that will cost. A new fiesta has a warranty. Just compare the cost of a new set of tyres with a Fiesta.

[@stu4181]

It’s a gamble, if there are no major issue engine gearbox wise then when you take into consideration depreciation you should come out on top. One big problem and you are up shit creek... Plus you have to deal with people you thought are mates being weird if you buy a Porsche, I bought a 2012 cayman, people I thought were mates that I’d done cash work for at half the price to normal started saying stuff like ‘you said you doing that work cheap for me’ I could have turned up in a more expensive golf R or m4 and I doubt they would have said the same thing...

[@Waterlego]

@@stu4181 sounds like you need new mates

[@stu4181]

@@Waterlego your real mates are just happy for you if you do alright in life. These were people I’ve met a bit later on in life, still I thought they were decent enough. Was a surprise when your out for a Christmas curry with them and comments are being made such as the above. Can’t see the issue with a mid thirties guy having a 2012 cayman myself but the green eyed monster is strong in some 🙄

[@Waterlego]

@@stu4181 yeah they’ve got serious issues mate

[@johngreen8693]

@@stu4181 Yeah, people have funny ideas on spend and costs. My 996 costs about £300 per year for service plus the annual upgrade/ mod I do (about the same again) and I do about 7k miles pa (it's on 120k now..) but people still seem to think I must be minted to run it! I hide it away when getting quotes for building work now..

[@byronmills5952]

996 and 7s....beyond the IMS bearing issues early 997s like this car had the weaker 996 type external unit - I would change it regardless if there is no record of it in the history. Front struts and top mounts take a battering and normally need swapping out ,as do the front radiators and aircon condensers that weep along with the front coolant transfer pipes. The aircon pipe which runs along the drivers side floor to the can rust around the clips and leak gas - and and the coolant expansion bottle gets brittle and cracks with age. A set of decent tyres will set you over a grand too . Don't get me wrong I love 911s - but experience tells me that as a second car and a play thing - a 15 year old 997 makes sense - but as an everyday proposition a 15 year old 14k 997 would very quickly turn in to a 25k car once you've debugged it.

[@HansBrodiAutomotive]

Absolutely.

[@youngsyr]

Agreed. There's a reason its £14k

[@rogerwredford]

Dare I say "the myth of German reliability"? I don't think that German cars are any worse than most other car makers, but they certainly ride on a nostalgic reputation for Teutonic efficiency, and, in my family's experience, fall well short of certain Japanese manufacturers.

[@brianiswrong]

Having 4 seats and being a 4 seater are completely different things 😀

[@James_Sovereign]

Exactly. I have a "3 seater" jet ski. It fits 2 people.

[@nickblundell9990]

Yeah I have a 1 series convertible with 4 seats but anyone over 5 9 will struggle

[@nickmurray721]

Great example of man maths...I’ve used this approach several times 😂

[@Number27]

I am one of the zen masters at man maths!!

[@legaltechinnovations1594]

Like justifying the purchase to your wife... Hey babe, watch this video... now look out at the driveway hahahaha

[@officerponcherrello1182]

Did same myself - gave up my £700 a month Audi and bought an 08 Cayman S. Didn’t look back

[@paulyflyer8154]

Makes much more sense than a new kitchen too.

[@Jester-Riddle]

I fear that your boundless optimism and emotions are affecting your maths and risk assessment unfortunately ... Given the nature of the marketplace, if such exotic cars could make so much financial sense, then the market prices would go up too ... ... and in my experience, if you were the lucky one to find an exception as a daily driver, some plonker would crash into you and the Insurance company refuse to pay for repairs ! However, nothing wrong with enthusiastic optimism that brings some cheer and interesting videos of what might be possible ...

[@ferraridav]

My advice when buying older sports cars, find an insurer that will give you an agreed value policy.

[@eblevinda]

@@ferraridav Porsche Club GB offer agreed value policies

[@Jester-Riddle]

@@ferraridav Might those sort of policies be somewhat more expensive given the nature of the risk to Insurers ... ?

[@ferraridav]

@@Jester-Riddle it depends on the insurer, annual mileage, and your risk bracket. Contrary to popular belief, the largest cost to insurance companies, and in turn policy holders, is bodily injury expenses and wrongful death settlements. Property value doesn't really raise the cost as much as you'd think.

[@EtonieE25]

Stephen Ford...... TOTALLY agree as owning three 911’s! You gotta have deep pockets when things go wrong on a 15 year old car...... being flash costs cash 😆

[@jamesdrichardson3447]

You're correct bringing up the bore scoring issue with this car and if it's not blowing out blue smoke at the back, particularly from the left hand exhaust you're fine. The other scary issue with this 2004/5 car is the IMS Bearing, if that goes bang you're lookng at an 8-10k rebuild and unlike bore scoring which is a gradual failure where you're warned of impending doom there is no such warning with the IMS, when it starts to fail you don't know of it until your engine is destroyed. Most owners fit the upgraded bearing when their clutch needs replacing or you can buy yourself out of the problem if you go for a later 2008 car which doesn't suffer this.

[@garysimpson3900]

I have owned a Porsche Boxster from 2001-4 & a 997 from 2004-16, both from new. Unless you are going to do the servicing yourself both OPC & reputable independents are not cheap. Remember that a "Full Porsche Service History" is essential if you are going to get good money come resale so unless you are running a leggy dog of a car you want to maintain a good reputable history file. Its when you need to replace parts that any comparison with Ford/Vauxhall prices fade into comparison. Example, the radiators/air con condensers are vulnerable to damage & cost £1300 to replace (2015 prices). Coolant & air conditioning pipework that are routed in the engine bay is a known failure issue & an engine out job. Tandem pump corrosion requiring replacement & due to the boxer engine, coil packs are over exposed to the environment causing cracking, engine misfire & requiring regular replacement. The 997.1 cars carry over the M96 engine from the 996: bore score is not a question of "If" but "when" it will happen because of the inherent design flaws of the unit as well as sudden failure of the intermediate shaft bearing resulting in immediate & catastrophic engine failure.

[@bighands69]

Anybody buying a secondhand 997 is not going to be thinking about resale price which makes no sense. If have a budget of 20000 the exact money left over can be used for any service or repairs.

[@MagicModena]

This is misleading. The cost to run these is mad, I have had two and when things go wrong it’s always £300. Then every so often something bigger goes and it’s 1000+ the tyres etc.

[@amg2rs236]

Agree, misleading.... get a serious mechanical issue developing that a local garage can't fix and boy is that Approved Porsche Centre going to get its teeth into you...Thousands of pounds is going to be needed and probably be "THE COST" of that ford!!! The maths don't add up...

[@nickjones8867]

just had service and tyres for my Porsche 2 grand.

[@kennethlinton4432]

@@nickjones8867 Where you holding your ankles?

[@bighands69]

@@amg2rs236 People have had their engines completely burnout on big brands and they can cost a fortune to repair. There is no guarantees on any car brand that major things cannot go wrong. .

[@James_Sovereign]

@@bighands69 but we're comparing a 15 year old car to a brand new car with warranty.

[@rab2826]

Allow to have the IMS bearing done if it hasnt been already.

[@ericl452]

The 997.1 has the M97 engine which is nearly identical to the M96. The M97 uses a larger single row bearing that is not replaceable without splitting the engine case. The good news is you should get at least 100k miles out of the bearing. Bore scoring in the 3.8 is fairly common, unfortunately.

[@augnkn93043]

It’s great to see Mike Brewery back on the box. His fallout with Eddy Chinese clearly hasn’t affected him too much. Sweet.

[@Number27]

Mike Brewer?? Me?? 😂😂😂

[@siddyskip]

I think he’s talking about Stan 🙄

[@ghaniabid]

I proposed this to my 20 year old son. His insurance quote for the 911 came back at £11,780 per year. I've told him to grow a pair and be more like me, a settled middle aged man who works from home with equity in his house and 15 years no claims with Admiral. What is the matter with these people, can't they see how much better a Porsche 911 is than a Ford Fiesta! Fools the lot of them. don't make me get my calculator out again boy.

[@Number27]

I never said this was aimed at 20 years olds with no driving history or experience. You on the other hand with your collection of Admiral no claims..

[@petrjerabek7641]

Great vlog and i am sure it would bring more people who were on a verge of buying one into doing that... I wouldn't though be seeing the running costs too rosy, because i have one for about 5 years now (actually a 996, but technically these cars are very close) and i have few friends with 996 and 997's. So, whereas for example a Lotus Elise S2 with Toyota 2ZZGE engine cost me just to change oil, brake pads, tyres and filters before every new season and hardly ever needs anything else, the Porsche has had a full engine rebuild since i bought it. I did it while other service was done on the car and engine /gearbox were out and it turned out just about right time. Little bore scoring issue on 3.4 engine, IMS good for change, clutch, timing chains and variocam, it needed few hydrolifters, conrod bearings and main bearings i suppose and few other bits and bobs. The engine is now running on steel liner inserts and alloy pistons from Woessner. It's been done almost 3 yrs ago and runs perfect since. My mechanic, porsche specialist basically say, every M96 or M97 engine would need a sort of rebuild one day. It's cheaper to rebuild slightly precaucionary before anything bad happens to it, which was my case. The 997 S the 3.8 block is actually most expensive for rebuilds out of the range and if the block cracks or anything happens a new one from Porsche is really costly. The price for the black one from the vlog is fantastic deal ... but to want to be very honest with everyone, i'd recommend all people to keep a good cash aside to cover repair costs if things go bad. I agree though, that these are great cars. I don't regret ever buying one and not planning to replace it with anything else for long time... But let's be fair - it's not as cheap as new Fiesta :-D

[@Number27]

Thanks for the considered and interesting comment!!

[@petrjerabek7641]

@@Number27 You are welcome, Jack. I don't want to scare anyone or something like this, just thought to tell a bit of own experience. In a nutshell, i'd recommend to let the Porsche specialist do more jobs anytime the clutch needs replacing and engine is out to let the mechanic dismantle it and inspect it properly. Most likely they find some scoring on few of the cylinder bores. if found early repairs are cheaper. And a rebuilt engine from a good specialist, well documented would in the end increase the car's value as these no more depreciates. So for example, even in a situation an engine rebuild and works done i briefly described would cost 5-6 grand, part of it should be covered by car's increase market value. But best is to drive it and enjoy it. That what these are for... :-D I wish your friend has good luck with it. I have a friend of mine with same spec car, just in silver, bought it for much more money here in Czech Republic where i am from and his 997 Carrera S still works perfectly well. But he also think similar way ... at some point he will have the engine better thoroughly checked. But still i am sure, spending money on 996's or 997's is alright, these cars reward you back...

[@S-Ltd1000]

£14k gets you into a decent mx5 nd. More fun to use on UK roads and reliability built in.

[@richfixescars]

Yeah exactly, I sold my 12 year old money pit Porsche and got a 2 year old MX-5, just as much fun on a nice day, but much more affordable. People don't think you're a knob in the MX-5, just a hairdresser!

[@marklowry8799]

You’d struggle to find a decent 996 for £14k so I don’t know where anybody expects to find a 997 for that money. I’ve owned 911’s in the past and I’ve been searching sometimes daily for a cheap runabout 997 and I haven’t seen one for less than £17.5k in the past 5 years so this is just Clickbait and like you said an MX5 makes way more sense, the 997 is too much money for what it is unless you’re into your classics or trying to make a statement.

[@jonathandunham2157]

@@marklowry8799 Did you watch the video to see that he DID pay £14K for the 997 as its a Cat S car? It can be done, I bought a £42K 997.2 for less than £25K earlier this year, it is also a Cat S. For those with or wanting an MX5, as always its horses for courses. I personally wanted something more exciting and more fun! Others will disagree.

[@713vinh]

Great to see you in a Porsche again Jack. You really need to get yourself one of these 997, the Porsche scene on KZbin has exploded! Think about how much more subscribers you will get and the fun experience marking video content out of it.

[@Number27]

I do like these cars.. but I do also like experiencing different stuff. Still.. I’m sure I will get back into a 911 soon. Perhaps an old one though!

[@ThePhilandPam]

More Porsche stuff please, really enjoyed this 👍

[@Number27]

Glad to hear it thanks!!

[@lowcountrydawg2525]

That car is loaded with options. It has the full leather package, sport chrono package, PASM, adaptive sport seats and the sport steering wheel. This car was probably $100-110k USD new. I owned a 2007 C2S and it was a spectacular road car.

[@CraigStephenson]

I bought a 987 Boxster base, no bore score 5 speed strongest box. Added race cats and goes very well indeed, do think about a Boxster great handling esp if lowered. Mine cost less than 6 grand and looks as good as that 911 imo.

[@soyabean911]

Snap! I brought a Boxster S 987, it's safe with the 3.2 engine but the 3.4 (2006+) car also suffers with the bore scoring issue so I'd stay away from one unless it's had a rebuild by a reputable company.

[@matthewbell1968]

4 seats Jack 🤔🤔 Maybe for your dog from last week mate 😂 Interesting review I really enjoyed it 👍

[@rr40v8]

Well thanks very much... I already have a p38 Range Rover (16yrs) and an e46 325 sport (7yrs) and have always fancied a 997 too but decided that what I had was enough and shouldn’t have three, esp as my wife has an slk and an Abarth 500. I’ve watched your video and now it’s set me off again!! (Good video though, your friend has my perfect 997, black on black, manual transmission and no sunroof) Cheers 👍😀

[@christopherwright1795]

Mmmm being a bit of a Porsche aficionado I love 911’s they’re brilliant but I’m so glad you mentioned the bore scoring , a mod on the thermostat can save it , of course they still have a crap IMS bearing that can break , expensive to refurbish the suspension and coolant pipes under the car can burst but instead of a fiesta errr no ! As well as a fiesta instead of buying an expensive car definitely the way to go

[@danieledes1226]

Wish you could get a 997 now for 14k

[@jonost24]

Aren't there problems associated with insuring written off cars? I've heard some companies just refuse to insure them, even after a proper repair?

[@Number27]

Don’t think that’s the case...

[@Number27]

Stan is paying £314 per year to insure this..

[@alangil5335]

People know about the IMS bearing issue, but I am glad you mentioned Bore Scoring as it is probably the bigger problem on 997.1s especially on those built after March of 2006 where they got the larger, but non-serviceable IMS bearing. Bore Scoring is caused by a metallurgy problem and is mostly prevalent in cars from cold weather climates. The problem, at least in the US was exacerbated by certain mid-western winter fuel blends which caused the fuel being injected to wash away oiling. Apparently when it is really cold the pistons don't have sufficient clearance in the sleeves. They fixed this in the new 9A1 engine in the 997.2. So if you can, look for 997.1 cars with a warm weather history and that will greatly lessen the probability of bore scoring, though I believe it is still possible. To be clear bore scoring means you will need an engine rebuild and this will be more expensive than the car featured in the video. All this was enough to push me into a 997.2 S 6-speed though they are more expensive, they also have more power and updated infotainment systems. If you are not afraid of higher miles, a higher mileage 997.2 may only be $10k more than a lower mileage 997.1, where as if mileage is equivalent the .2 may be $20k more.

[@magnum328]

Always get the bores checked before you buy any gen 1 997 3.8!!! I bought one with similar miles from an auction a few years ago, before I knew about this problem. That was ok until it had done about 20 miles each time, then it would start smoking and burning lots of oil. I had to put nearly as much oil in that as I did petrol!!! I had to put it in an auction to sell it, and luckily got my money back. I recently looked at buying another one with similar miles, and the bores were scored when I had it checked. But you wouldn't know unless you you checked the cylinders with a scope. A rebuild to cure this is about £7,000!!! I would never buy a gen 1 3.8 now because of this, unless I can see proof it has had a rebuild to cure the problem. The gen 2 ones are ok.

[@bladieblaat23]

This is the best advertisement for buying a car at an online auction I have ever seen!

[@GhostyDog]

They’re only cheap to run if you don’t drive them, mines currently awaiting £1,400 of bits to get it through it’s mot @75k

[@alexmorgan3435]

Crikey.

[@HansBrodiAutomotive]

They are very cheap compared to a new 911 but not compared to a Fiesta.

[@GhostyDog]

@@n_dawson really? Mines been a daily driver for 5 years, about 10k spent on routine maintenance to keep it going over that period

[@nickrichardson7451]

I’ve only experience with Ferrari 308GT4’s and Mondial 3.4 & 3.2’s, in the last 38 years, and on average the 308’s were cheap to run at £450 for regular servicing but £1000 ish for cambelts every 3 years. The 3.4 Mondial was £2500 pa minimum as the engine comes out on servicing! My present 3.2 Mondial has had some costly problems in the last 6 weeks with electrics at £4,000 including a service & MoT. I’m hoping its going to be ok from now. It’s my fault for doing 400 miles in 6 days whereas the last owner did 600miles in two years! I love how Ferrari’s drive. I’ve experience with an old Porsche 911 too & anyone buying these can expect the unexpected bills! It would be wrong thinking that exotic cars are going to be cheap to run!

[@dw4525]

What work is costing £1400?

[@Charlie0Six]

Free yourself from the drudgery… love it mate. Truly an amazing deal! Only things I’d do to it are- add a nice and simple dove tail scoop, lower it 3 inches and add a set of Bilstein 16 active coils, and give it some sound with an X pipe set up. So is it Stan or Dan ? 😎

[@LegatoStudios]

How did you manage to get it for 14 grand? They are for more expensive when I am looking around

[@saxosim]

Great to see a Porsche on your channel again Jack, you need a permanent addition of one on your channel again. Really loved your Porsche content in the past 👍🏻😎

[@Number27]

Thank you Simona and glad you enjoyed it fella!

[@denisw398]

Don't forget also one of the few sports cars that takes a roof rack - allows you to do all your B&Q shopping or take a tent camping - just saying :)

[@MotorDynasty]

its advertised for £17,750 he did a good job to drop it down to 14k!! I need to learn his negotiating skills!

[@GTFour]

Concur. Would love to know how that was achieved.

[@robomar3707]

Great video as always. I love owning modern classics and currently have a 996 c4s that have had for 4 years and had zero depreciation and only servicing bills. I don’t however thing this would be the case if I was using it as my daily driver. Agree with some other comments more Porsche vids please.

[@Number27]

Thanks Rob!! Was nice to be back in one!

[@FazermanD]

Good old "man maths" gotta love it ;-)

[@geoffnorton9279]

Great as a second car just for some self indulgent weekend use. Otherwise, forget it.

[@TassieLorenzo]

The car seems more than adequate for one or two people + shopping? :)

[@Get10Yards]

Was really happy when the 997 went back to the round headlights. Always thought about buying a 997 second hand till I got the chance to get the 992. Great video 👍

[@cornishrider]

This looks new to me! Hope to get one of these before too long, what a proper, proper car! I agree more Porsche please Jack.

[@Number27]

Ok will do my best buddy!

[@dougmcdougall8233]

watched this as it popped up in my feed (now subscribed!), instantly went to Autotrader to look for 997 carrera S's and found this very car for £18k. Zero depreciation?! More like £4k appreciation if it sells for that! NICE

[@Number27]

Ah that’s great thanks for subbing Doug! That’s actually the advert Stan bought it from. He negotiated hard and got a good deal! Dealer has not taken advert down yet!

[@std882]

0:33 My friend Stan...Isn't that a song by Slade? ;-)

[@motamark]

Interesting video .....you guys are so lucky in the UK to be able to get a 997 for less than a Fiesta here in AU you looking at roughly the cost of 3 new Fiestas for one 997 !

[@zathrasthetenth505]

this one was an insurance write off hence the price

[@Michaellipmanactor]

I had a 996 and you can run one of these fairly cheaply. I bought all the consumables from Eurocarparts and this made it Fiesta running money. I had it serviced on my driveway by a local mechanic and that cost about £70.00. The other thing my Porsche went through was rear tyres every 8-9000 miles because of the engine being at the back and it being rear wheel driven. I bought used tyres which were perfectly legal and fine, and were like new before any smart arses tell me that’s the reason they didn’t last long, and cost about £50 each. The rear seats will give you claustrophobia as you get in due to them being upright and a sloping roofline. I’m pleased I owned one but the Mini JCW I have now is such a perfect all round car I’m finding it difficult to see what I’d replace it with. Love your videos too Jack.

[@Number27]

Nice to hear of an enthusiast running cars like this cheap!! Enjoy your Mini Michael!

[@Michaellipmanactor]

@@Number27 Thank you.

[@andrewdavis2325]

I love the way you keep it real, and even when you Cock it up you just leave it in. Totally agree with you everyone needs to have a Porsche sometime in their life.

[@Number27]

Glad you appreciate the idiocy!

[@Gozar111]

Beautiful car. I will buy this all day long. But in South Africa these are still bloody expensive with no bargains to be had. So I will stick with my current two Porsches for now!

[@perunut4656]

Keep us in the loop on how Stan gets on after a year please

[@Number27]

Will do!!

[@scottywong]

Its on auto trader

[@stanl1979]

That’s the old advert 👍

[@rickyprice7586]

This is the reason we bought a Cayman as our daily drive. Looked at newer cars but for the price we got a hell of a good well built car that is enjoyable to drive. We dont really miss not having 4 seats so it works for us so gotta agree it's a good move

[@jerrys.]

Isn't getting Insurance an issue on a Cat # write off? plus I'm amazed there was no mention of the infamous IMS bearing on a pre 2009 Porsche

[@Number27]

Nope here in Uk getting insurance not an issue...

[@davidmccall-smith8479]

I've had three 911s including a 997 C4S and all cost at least double what you quoted to run for a year. Great cars though, keep up the good work.

[@omicfusion]

Cylinder bore issues on these engines are due to their Lokasil liners. Nikasil coated bores on the Turbo/GT models do not suffer the same failures.

[@jan-erikgauksheim3749]

Dream scenario, i wish it was so cheap to run a 997. BUT it is not happening in the long run. Changing breaks, alu cooling pipes, cooling radiators, gearboks seals. - Clutch - this will cost you way more than a very nice reliable Peoples car. Not to mention engine rebild, cause ims. Not to forget new engine 997.1, Even if the ims issue is dealth with, caus sylinder 4,5 and 6 goes due to bore problems, often at a low milage. Love the car and your reviewes. But people should know about the real costs. Do not by 997 unless you can afford unexpected repair cost up to at least 20 000 punds. But dreaming is FREE of charge. 😉 Best of luck.

[@jan-erikgauksheim3749]

Another thing, fiesta run om cheap 95 unleded, Porsche 997, must have 98 premium fuel , so petrol running costs+ double consumtion witt tripple your petrol bills compaired til å fiesta 😉

[@AlainHubert]

I had a friend who had bought a used, but in good condition, 1988 Porsche 944 back in the early nineties (1993 I think) for not a lot of money. He kept it for a couple of years, then quickly sold it when he realized that these cars are not reliable, and when they break down the parts are very expensive to replace. He said, and I quote:"I'll never buy a Porsche ever again.". Today, he drives a 2019 Kia Stinger GT2 with a 10 years warranty (5 years bumper-to-bumper). Go figure? lol!

[@waynerodgers1444]

Been using mine as a daily for over 6 years and I drive it like its stolen with 85k on clock , £900 porsche service ( every two years 👌🏻) descent tyres are around £175 a corner discs are peanuts but pads are £200 a pair , cheap tax pre 2006 . These are real prices folks

[@fatfreddyscoat7564]

10% depreciation in the first year? Uh, no. First of all you’ve immediately lost 20% the second you drive it off the forecourt - VAT. A 16k Fiesta is worth nearer £11k after a year.

[@davidmccall-smith8479]

Equally no one pays anywhere near the list price for a new car these days.

[@haveanawesomeday4059]

Owner for years. Fuel: £1666 (factor x2 at least) Tyres: £1000 (actually ~£1000 each 1 year as you have winter and summer tyre sets, the good ones, ~2-3 years) Inspections, measured on 2 year intervals will also boost estimates. Wait 3-4 years until breaks etc. and more expensive parts need servicing. However, you can keep costs "low" compared to other new cars loosing their value fairly quick but include free service for 100k.

[@SuperJammy1]

I got a 05 plate carrera s cabriolet with 150k and a rebuild engine which is like new for 16ka year back now.best purchase I ever made.had it bore scoped before I got it.only problem is if you like upgrading them. I'm lowering mine 30mm and that's costing 5k with new shocks and alot of other little bits.

[@leeevernden]

The man maths doesn’t work for me as I can’t get insured on insurance write offs. I have tried, and the answer is always ‘no’ or thousands of pounds. So that is an extra cost to consider vs anything else.

[@markkerry5840]

Thanks for a very interesting video, I have a very early 997s and agree with Jesse's comments, I bought mine with the certain knowledge it would need an engine rebuild at some stage. Sure enough at 70k miles it is showing the expected signs of bore scoring, heavy oil use and black carbon deposits on the tail pipes. But I went into this with my eyes open and budgeted accordingly. As for servicing and service parts, as long as it does not say Porsche on it, parts are readily available and reasonably priced, , I just replaced all my discs and pads with OEM parts for £400 including labour. Alternators, starter motors etc are very well priced when measured against other high end cars such as Mercedes, Audi, or BMW. Just don't damage a headlight! Great drivers car in every sense.

[@Number27]

Thanks Mark and interesting to hear your experience!

[@pierovittori1076]

my dad had a similar bargain in mid 80s with a 911 targa. We had a lot of fun with it but I remember him complaining about the running costs and most important abot how car behaved somehow strangely over 200km/h.

[@stu4181]

The mrs has an i30n 27k new with 5 year warranty, 271bhp. More on the options spec list than my mates 2018 i8. Thing is really fun to drive 80% as fun as the cayman 987.2 I have (on the road where your limited to speeds you can safely do anyway sure on track the cayman would shine but how often do you go on track) Value for money wise it’s hard to see past it as a daily and fun car at the same time.

[@Number27]

Interesting to hear on the i30, I must try one!

[@mikeowen1819]

I had a 996 4S and did exactly the sums you talked about and over 4 years it cost less overall, (inc depreciation) than my wife's Ford S Max. However, driven in a fairly spritely manner, I was only getting 4,000 miles out of a set of Pirelli rear tyres. Fiesta vs 996... I'd buy the tyres again and enjoy it once more. Great stuff; thanks very much. p.s. My fully comp insurance with 5,000 miles for a (then) 45 year old was £190 a year... ;-)

[@Number27]

Great know thanks for the comment Mike!!

[@harryspeakup8452]

There's such a lot of cost been magicked away off the Porsche here on the assumption that it won't need the things which are routine on an old Porsche. Others have mentioned tyres, but also things like: radiator replacements; air con rebuild; suspension re-bushing; and that's before you get into the engine problems of the pre DFI cars.

[@gregspark9845]

Sorry to rain on your parade but the DFI engine also suffers from bore scoring potentially. There's far fewer of them, due to GFC induced drop in sales, and they've been around a much shorter time, but they are appearing with bore scoring. Probably not as frequently as the M96/97 cars, but the DFI is not as bulletproof as many claim. But then what highly tuned high performance engine is?

[@rhettcorcoran2879]

This video couldn't be any better, mind you as an owner of a 997.2 C2 I might be a bit biased! They are great cars, mine has a over a 100k on the clock, it still looks like a 3 year old car. Whilst I agree about the service costs, parts are expensive, recurrring issues like replacing the top mounts and coolant pipes are quite expensive, don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the car and it is a keeper.

[@rhettcorcoran2879]

ETA it looks like a very good purchase and fun.

[@Number27]

Fantastic!! Enjoy your 997 Rhett. A lot of car for money these!

[@LocksLondon]

The problem with used 911's is everyone wants one but nobody wants to do the proper maintenance and upkeep. So you end up with cars with lots of previous keepers all of roughly 1-3 years of ownership and bugger all maintenance.

[@simonharding1572]

the main issue - You need deep pockets vs the fiesta if anything goes wrong (and it will) mind you I would still be tempted ha

[@BubuBarong]

You did not touch upon the main issue: IMS. Moreover a good 997.1S would cost you much more than 14k...

[@Number27]

This one did not.. Stan paid £14 K for it

[@ToolkiT73UK]

Isn't IMS an 996/986 issue?

[@BubuBarong]

@@ToolkiT73UK no, it is still for 997.1, 987.1 and 987.2 base.

[@BubuBarong]

@@Number27 yes but you compared it to a standard Fiesta. Mind you: I'm a 981s owner and I owned a 986s so I'm with you on the principle and I love your vids. Cheers from Italy

[@douglasprovost768]

@@Number27 this same car is on autotrader now for £17000. is he selling it, or is this where he bought it?

[@oohmeconkers1968]

I must admit I damn near bought a 911 this year. I had some spare cash and was tempted. Looked at a lot. All were lovely... then captain sensible came and kicked me in the nuts. It’s the on costs. I wouldn’t use it as a daily. My garage is full of crap, I can do basic maintenance etc but I’m no mechanic. I researched the cost of parts and spoke with a local specialist... It was him that suggested a 944. It’s mostly analog, great handling not too many around and parts on the whole are available and reasonably priced. I found a decent one, over lock down I did some bits on on it. This car has scratched a few itches, it’s rare, good looking, quick enough and is most of all fun. I can work on it myself and it was a 1/4 of what i was going to spend on a 911. I still lust after a 911 and who knows but for now I’m happy. Love the channel Jack.

[@Number27]

944 definitely a less dangerous proposition financially!! Enjoy it!

[@paulfastbikes361]

Thanks for the information im looking to buy a 997 the dreaded ims question. is it right the 997.2 doesn't have that issue . But still check bore score?

[@bombakdik]

Being a big Porsche fan I would want to consider such cars a a daily too. But It is simply way too expensive to have it taxed. Annual tax is simply nuts. How does this go in UK?

[@scotchgod8478]

A Porsche finally, there you go mate!👍

[@Number27]

Glad you approve!!

[@minecrafter023]

"They are not big cars" - WTF the new 911s are freaking huge! Have you ever seen a 70s or 80s Porsche?

[@Jasonr2803]

Great video. I just hopped on Auto Trader to check prices of these and this very car is for sale for £17,750.

[@Number27]

That was the dealer Stan bought it from. He paid £14k for it. The as is still up but car is sold!

[@samcourt6228]

Whilst I admire the man maths, hatchbacks do things that these can’t....chuck the dog in the back, trips to IKEA, dump runs, car seats will be a pain in the arse too. You’ll get more than £400 off a new Fiesta too via brokers etc. Many people in the UK are allergic to older cars with higher mileage too. The day to day running costs on the 911 are fine, it’s when things break that the pain really kicks in. As much as i like Porsche they’ve had plenty of issues with their engines, as you mentioned. You didn’t factor the inspection into your buying costs either 😜 It’s also cheap because it was a Cat S which is so tegu good you’ll never get away from.

[@Number27]

Yes.. there is a reason it was cheap but properly repaired the cat doesn’t scare me! Cheers Sam!

[@phil-jz1mj]

Love this video! With a good specialist Porsche running costs are not that bad just need to look after them properly. Would love a 997 if I was to move on from my Cayman.

[@stevewilliams5428]

I'd keep the Cayman, It's not pretending to be a 4 seater, it handles better, it has better luggage storage, the 2.9 gen2 is a peach. No IMS issue. No bore scoring issue.

[@Jez1963UK]

I love the *man maths* title ! Says it all :) Yep, as others have said, it'll be the service and repair costs, plus of course those Porsche prices for the parts :) Stratospheric comes to mind (my ex has a Porsche Cayenne and just the gas struts on the tailgate were eye-watering..... (look it up - she was quoted £1500.....)

[@michaelpegasiou4531]

I would love one but knowing my luck the servicing will cost a bomb,my friend had one and he had massive bills now and again.Its bigger than a small hot hatch and less practical for shopping and passengers.This is more of a weekend car.I get two or three year old hot hatches for the similar money as they have warranty left and won’t kill me in repairs as I have other bills to pay and I’ve had big engine petrol drinkers and I hate having to keep filling up with petrol so often.

[@Number27]

You do need a bit of luck on your side for sure!!

[@James_Sovereign]

4:40 I'd love for these prices to translate to Australia .... but they'e not even close. A 2020 Ford Fiesta ST is ~$35k here. The cheapest 997 I can find online today, with 150,000 kms on the clock, is $69k.

[@iainedwards1894]

IMS not the problem, what about the bore scoring you mentioned Also, little Gaddesden?

[@Number27]

I mentioned bore scoring..

[@EvoraGT430]

Bore scoring is almost guaranteed.

[@LastOnSunday]

@@EvoraGT430 less than 5% of these model suffer from bore score, another Porsche myth.

[@keyo525]

Better off with the 3.6 C2 much less likely to bore score then a S model which all do eventually as have smaller coolant channels. - for a few k more could of get a cat free car and would have good selling on value in the future. also worth going up to 19k which will get you a 997.1 car with the larger much improved IMS bearing.. At this age you want to factor in complete top to bottom shocks mounts etc on every corner - also exhaust manifold - clutch if never changed- there is 3-4k straight off.

[@Number27]

Thanks for the useful tips and advice!! Have a great weekend!

[@jonatanhedberg7377]

I somewhat agree whit Stephen, The reality of owning a 911 of generation 996 or 997 really, is that things need to be replaced, and its a lot more expensive than on a ford. Then there are also the risks of major repairs, like IMS (yes early 997 have the same risk factor as 996). These things could be VERY expensive to fix, 2-6000 usd. If maintaned (ceramic IMS replacemet etc) they are bargains. But you need to know what you are getting into and not drive it like a focus (not giving much of a s***t) but to study the year/model you got and keep an eye on things that could fail. All in all though, what a car any 996 or 997 is. Got a 996 TT and it´s just so amazing to drive. Keep it up! cheers

[@Number27]

Enjoy your 996 Jonathan!!

[@jonatanhedberg7377]

@@Number27 I really are and encourage everyone to get a 996 or 997. What a car for the money they are at the moment. You should get a project 996!

[@amphilbey]

Great second bar though admire anyone buying this as their only car, love the video

[@m3petem3]

Love the change of car, precisely why I changed my modern SUV for a 2008 997.1 C4S. A great drivers car and with many independent Porsche service centres around why not give them a go. More Porsche content please. Ps I also love the Ferrari.

[@Number27]

Thanks chap! Enjoy your Sunday!

[@twowheelsoneleg5672]

Epic man maths and I see a nation of hopeful petrolheads sitting their partners down in front of this piece in a attempt to swap the family runaround for something more interesting. As any of us who have ever attempted to run an older performance car will know, you may get a good year as described above but sure as eggs is eggs the following year will be a stinker(normally just after you've decided to keep the car for another year)

[@Number27]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@desiday7070]

Where can you buy one of these 997 for 14k?

[@Chrissy-H]

This is how I always calculate the price of ownership when I buy a car. 10% depreciation on a brand new car is actually really conservative too, most are over 20%. If you do this same maths for something like a lotus Elise it works out ridiculously cheap because they’re so good on fuel, and again, zero depreciation.

[@ryanmccormick2150]

A 911 would be good to see on number27! back to 27's roots 🙂 , what a cracking car for the money . I must admit I probably would have a few sleepless nights if it was mine just worrying about big bills but I will buy one in the next 5 years or so but I'll buy a 964......... fingers crossed 🤞

[@Number27]

Good luck with that Ryan. Let me know if you need advice.. as you know I know those very well!

[@ryanmccormick2150]

@@Number27 cheers for that Jack! hay maybe I could find one down your way with your help and make a video of the experience now that would really be awesome 👌 .......... still a few years off tho 5 years tops I reckon bud 😀

[@user-mg9he3qj3n]

Cheers Jack great info. I was lucky to have a couple of 996 4S and they were the best everyday car I have ever had even down to the eight loaves of bread I could get in the front!!! Not too sure about about a CAT S for family use🚒👍

[@Fluterra]

It’s so cheap because anything that goes wrong can easily cost more than the purchase price to fix! A Toyota Yaris will not have that.

[@usemoreoil]

Precisely

[@MrManBuzz]

And a new car has generally at least a 5 year warranty now. There's 5 years worry free ownership. I'd love to see how much repairs that 911 would need in 5 years of daily driving. Quite a lot I'd bet.

[@bighands69]

People have had major things go wrong with their cheaper cars that end up costing just as much.

[@discogodfather22]

14k? Here in the states they are still $35k at least.

[@Number27]

Some bargains to be had here I suppose!! But this one was crash repaired! Thanks for watching Chris and a big wave 👋 to the USA 🇺🇸!

[@franksmith4254]

I love the man maths, I'm off shopping 👍

[@Number27]

🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@pltudinous]

Does the old "if you can't afford to buy two of them, you can't afford it" not apply with the 997?

[@darrencottrell5541]

Good fortune is always needed when buying any car, I've been stung several times on new cars as well as when buying on the used car market. A bit of Lady Luck is always needed. That said, I admire the point being made here Jack, if indeed Lady Luck is with you, it shows what can be had. Nice content as always.

[@Number27]

Thank you Darren! Enjoy the weekend!

[@darrencottrell5541]

You too pal.

[@csf6614]

Nice one Dan ... great find ..

[@Number27]

😂

[@andylaws4247]

Was it checked for bore scoring?

[@Engineerd3d]

While my perticilar vehicular choice is not as high end as a porsche. My ford Mustang is just as storied. I bought my mustang and honestly running costs have been very very low. It's amazing how practical a 412hp v8 car with a proper manual can be. Maintenance over 8 years of ownership? 1 set of tires. About due for second set. 1 set of breaks and 8 oil changes. That's all she wrote. I don't expect anything major for another 8 years or more.

[@Number27]

Yep, aside from petrol American 🇺🇸 cars can be cheap to run. What year is yours?

[@Engineerd3d]

@@Number27 i had an 07 that I lost due to someone t-boning me at 60mph. I turned around and bought a 2012 new, i don't ever plan on getting rid of it.

[@Engineerd3d]

@@Number27 while i have seen euro prices for fuel. My busting costs about $25 to fill it. With that i do about 200 miles. I get about 23-25usmpg on the highway and about 16 in the city if i behave myself. Otherwise I get about 17mpg combined if i do mix of frisky driving and relaxed.

[@oohmeconkers1968]

To be honest Jack you can run a car like this on a budget.... a bloody huge one!!!😆😆😆😆😆😆

[@Number27]

😄

[@larrychamel]

Frank & Dan or Jack & Stan... very nice Car, great Price! Great video and I hope that all is well with you and your Family Jack! Hope you're Safe and Healthy! ❤🙏❤

[@Number27]

Thank you buddy and the same to you Larry!

[@modmod392]

£14k!!!! Pleeeeease show me another one. 997 3.8 I would buy two👍