Why is Toxicity so normalized?

[@rickyrico900]

Fully agree here, it’s sad that people think they are powerless to toxicity. Just as toxic people make an effort to spew their negativity, you can actively fight against it. I’ve won so many games by putting in the effort to be positive and boost team morale and telling everyone to ignore the griefer when they come up. I’m not letting anyone ruin 30-45 minutes of my time without a fight.

[@CptVein]

100% I've seen more than a few games these past few months by trying to be the voice of reason. Sometimes, it's as simple as telling the two arguingto mute the other and focus on their game.

[@Catfish3000]

90% of winning in Dota 2 is not about playing good, but about babysitting your team.

[@edward222100]

@@CptVein I 100% agree but at the same time we need to also be calling out shitty behaviour, the community is never going to improve if we all just go "well he sold all his items and ran down tower, but youre arguing with him so you should both be quiet" we need to be a community that says "yeah man its bullshit we'll all report but lets not give him what he wants and engage"

[@an_omega_wolf]

I've only won about 10% of games when trying to fix people fighting... I'm not good at calming people down... Now I just mute the entire team and play in peace

[@berryesseen]

Yep. It’s called babysitting your teammates. The immediate response to toxicity should be “please ignore that guy. Mute and avoid. Play your game. We can win this.” It must be the worst feeling to fail being toxic (winning the game while actively trying to lose).

[@modalisk]

completely agree. Not giving griefers the attention they crave, and winning despite them, is the best way to take their power away. And if you're actually trying to enjoy dota, preserve your own mental health, and win games, then ignoring them is your best shot too

[@HappySmilingDog-d7u]

bro youre wrong lol, as someone whos been griefing because of how fast your behavior score can drop and lose streaks , tilt yada yada, i can tell you that we all tryna win lol (except those freaks that feed from 0 mins), and any victory feels better than loses... Basically if you dont like someone and youre selfish piece of sh1t, you may just snap and stop caring and go feed, its kinda like selfh@rm or smth lol, it doesnt make sense, but it gives you some satisfaction, better one when you trying to win with some rtd. In my defense - i did it in turbo when i was reported for losing mid or smth and next game i had double mid no roll when i DID roll, still have problems letting some noobs take core positions.

[@JackIsNotInTheBox]

If you're an emotionless psychopath, sure. But it is impossible for normal people to do this. You don't just sit and not say anything when someone is fingering your butthole.

[@TheChosenOne462]

well no most of the time you cant win a 4v6 game

[@Koreryn]

I disagree. I always love when I talk shit then get carried lol.

[@Slaanash]

I think BSJ once said that he wondered if dota players had an above-average rate of depression or mental illness; Not as like, a joke, but a sincere question because of the way people act, and how DotA being so absorbing on a good day is good to focus on if you're depressed. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised.

[@jsepaaaaa]

i noticed there's a lot of adhd people in such addictive games, also personally I have a lot of anxiety and some mental issues and dota is currently one of the only thing I can focus on and helping me forget abt anxiety and pain not very healthy but at least I get satisfaction from it and it keeps my mind working so I'd say u're right, and several persons I'm getting along in game have similar difficulties

[@johngiaus8632]

@@jsepaaaaa Yeah I'm ADHD and I defiantly feel the same. I really got my life together after getting diagnosed at 28 (31 now) and I think dota taught me a lot of things about hard work and mindset and definitely feels like that helped me down the line. At the same times it's also been an unhealthy outlet for me as well.

[@Sensorium19]

A lot of my Dota hours are because I used to have chronic pain. while I was in a game there wasn't time to feel anything else, which seemed like a better coping mechanism than pain meds or other stuff I could be putting in my body. I was never particualrly toxic as far as I know, but I think a lot of people play to not think or feel about the bad stuff in their life.

[@Blumenfreund84]

@@johngiaus8632 Same here. But I didnt learn anything through DOTA. Maybe in the good times, where I had my impulsiveness under control or just a had a good RL streak going. But mostly it tilted me to see people not playing together, not communicating and passive-agressive pinging items and stuff. If you got ADHS, my friend, do some sports. At least this is what helps me.

[@GurneroMaelstrom]

I used to be extremely depressed, heart-broken cheated on, anxiety, paranoid, invasive and intrusive thoughts, violent idealizations, eating disorders, insomnia, lots of FAP, beers, smoking herb non-stop and I also played many games of Dota per day, I needed them. I felt I vented my frustrations there but it was an illusion. I was contemplating the end. Quitting the game improved a lot of aspects of my life. I'm still pretty much messed up but not as bad I used to be. Now at least I don't have to be angry all the time. Playing different games and staying physically active was a very good decision. I don't think I could ever come back to Dota no matter how much the player base changes. It'll probably never change but I'll always love this game and I'll remember the cool and fun times I've also had, It made me escape my reality for a while.

[@SuperLeutu]

watching this after a weekend break and straight into a griefed game feels like the whole weight of that game (mentally) has been lifted. i'm not alone dealing with this shit and I'm improving my approach when dealing with these types of behaviors. learning new ways to deal/cope beside muting them and moving on :) and for that I thank you Brian

[@kylemesser]

i love u big man, i started dota in december as my first moba and i just hit 2kmmr

[@Evdota247]

wow thats really gooood

[@wynn324]

why would you do that to yourself

[@AcousticJamesSGP]

Congrats bro, keep going. It's a solo journey only you can control.

[@maikoymokspg163]

damn, brother, I played dota for 3 years to get to 2k. Well played, man. hope you keep loving this god forsaken game

[@KeyboardWario]

my one tip. is don't judge your team because if they weren't doing that thing they would literally be higher rank and not in your game or you're wrong.

[@BjornHegstad]

After struggling to enjoy dota, I started premuting all players before each game. After playing like this for about a month, I noticed that the toxicity in Dota transcends the written/spoken communication. It´s also the pings, the tips, the sarcastic: "Well played!". It´s the player AFK jungling with a midas after griefing their own lane and as you said, everyone else giving up in response. I stopped playing the game despite how good the game itself is because of how the players constantly demoralize each other and make each other feel more miserable. Valve´s solution of letting players regulate this behavior via the report system is a spectacular failure. These people will report their teammates to grief and spite them. In the past year I have twice been suspended to low priority by spiteful reports from griefing players. I respect that you´re still trying to improve this community. Personally I´m done with this game after 12 years and some 4k hours.

[@Blumenfreund84]

Good decision, my friend. Ive stopped after 10 years and 6k hours. Feels like I wasted a huge amount of time.

[@GurneroMaelstrom]

me too, bud

[@SaintNath]

Nice game to play with friends even though it can definitely lead to fights amongst your friends 😂 terrible game to play with random people who can't communicate

[@MrDFAVATA]

I quit too after 10 years to me there's something inherit in the game that turns people toxic. Overall the ranking system, the toxicty has destroyed the enjoyment and satisfaction you get from just playing. A game shouldn't need 100 hours to feel some sense of satisfaction by climbing mmr. But one should feel a sense of satisfaction after playing a couple of hours. To me dota is not actually a very good game if you take into account all the other things that surround it. I wish more people would stop playing and just let this inherintly toxic game die.

[@electrucution]

1 report doesnt send you to LP. just admit youre also an asshole. hilarious honestly

[@ybabts]

Yes, the larger problem is how people respond to these players. Its entirely possible to win a game 4v5 in a pub. But if your whole team is focused on the one player having a hissy fit, you'll never win those games.

[@Jeed92]

the question is do you want to give a piece of shit a win or not. If you chase ranks, you shouldnt care, but if you dont care for your own rank, why would you make a piece of shit win?

[@Luxalpa]

Also these types of griefers typically do end up contributing in the win again if one just gives them the time to cool off and doesn't pressure them into succeeding.

[@persies4397]

Yep, it's so common for one player being toxic to just ruin the entire team's mentality. Heck I've won dota games 3v5 before. Is it easy? No, but it's possible. I don't want my teammates to be the best players ever or to be perfect, that's unrealistic. I just want them to try.

[@dickjohnson8983]

or valve could just ban the griefers

[@Bo-tv]

Yeah it's also possible to become a Billionaire

[@masterost1994]

I've played dota, I've played league, and I've played wow mythic plus, and my take on it is that the perfect gaming blend to create toxicity is as follows: 30-60 minutes of hard focus (no pausing, no rest), where every mistake you make you'll feel the result of for 30-40 minutes, making it feel absolutely terrible to make even a small mistake, dreading the uphill battle you now have in front of you. Make it ranked, where the match is just one small part of a whole, and this match can "ruin" a good match you previously had (elo wise) And the final part: A large, perhaps a majority of your success is based on other random peoples performance. If I were to invent a torture device that makes people turn on each other, I don't think I could create something better than this.

[@QKsilver58]

I think these videos are great BSJ, I've always loved the PMA grindset you've adopted, and I think mental health and competitive gaming should continue to be dissected as much as possible. On a related note, I hope to see a "PMA Guide" for players to emulate so we can see more PMA type interactions in regular matches. I personally always try to mediate my team's psyche and usually succeeded with joking around and lightening the mood in tough times, as well as overhyping and "bard buffing" my team when they do good stuff. Works wonders, and I'd genuinley love to be in a BSJ video so you can break down not only my shot calls (3k pubs so probably not perfect, but someone's gotta do it), and more importantly how I overcome my team tilting by being a force of positivity and encouragement through voice comms. I'd love to do it for free, cuz any way to improve pub's quality is worthwhile lol

[@AlborzMsH]

great video ; i really like these types of videos. we usually only talk about the meta or broken heroes and items but this type of stuff is as crucial if not more to our enjoyment of the game.

[@GurneroMaelstrom]

I like philosophical discussions so this topic is very important to discuss regularly even though I don't even play Dota anymore. I'm glad of these types of videos. We need to reflect on our actions and thoughts everyday. Thx BSJ and fellow Dota enthusiasts. Good luck in your games.

[@KRBdota]

First of all, I fully agree with what you're saying and I'm really glad that you spread this kind of mentality. I'm proud of how you deal with this because I know how hard of a strugge this is. I just want to add that I wish that we don't have to deal with this sh*t to begin with. Yes, we can win 4v5 if one of our teammates throws the game but why do we have to experience it in the first place? I know that it is possible but it is mentally and emotionally draining to deal with because when a player throws the game, he's/she's not just giving your team a disadvantage in numbers but, in most cases, also give the other team the MORE advantage by feeding and giving them free gold. Some buys all the wards and gives them to the enemy or plants them on the wrong places. All the damages that he/she could do. This would be way easier if one person throws the game at one point and he/she immediately gets booted out and forcefully disconnected. But in reality, sometimes, a person throws and CONTINUOUSLY damages his/her own team the entire game. That's why it's hard to adapt the most positive mentality in these cases. I appreciate the efforts of the guys behind the game to punish this kind of behavior. I know that they acknowledge this matter. Maybe this is me being naive to wish for a perfect DotA world but the 4 guys pushing to win despite one guy sh*tting should not be punished for a thing out of their control. I don't have the right to say that a person don't have the right play the game, but if he/she ruins other people's fun, what's to keep him/her from doing it again? There's should be a stronger discouragement for a person to throw a game even if he/she is tilted for whatever reason because he/she affects all of the other players and not just himself/herself. I hope that there's a way to pinpoint a thrower and keep him/her from playing the game for a substantial amount of time, or at least ranked games, if that's more plausible. And if that's not possible, maybe just don't punish the other players on the team. Like don't make them lose MMR for an unfair game if they lose. Or make the game safe to be left without losing MMR so they can reset to a better game. All of these are just my hopes and I know that I may have many wrong points on this. I just want to voice this out and make the DotA community better.

[@Fawnkay]

Thanks for the video, man. A good eye-opener, specially for those who want to enjoy a good playing experience. I am looking forward to teach my sons to play the game (the older is 7 yo), and I can't see how to do it in the near future based on the p2p experience the game offers. I play dota since the early 2000's, Garena and stuff. I brought my brother, cousins and friends to the game, to overwhelmingly play LAN and lobby since then. We would actually prefer to play against bots rather than people to avoid this kind of interaction. After 6-7 years without playing, this year I've decided start ranked, a decision to actually measure out how good I am in relation to the community. I have to say that the report and player behavior systems actually work well. There is a small amount of guys who do it constantly, and reporting and disliking (unless blatantly f'd up, I mostly reserve it for ranked games) them effectively filter them out. It is a problem that reoccur every time I climb the ladder, but is just a matter of time to rule them out. I always let my team know when I'm doing this, and I encourage them to roll on with the game.

[@okmeet12]

Loving this new more open personal videos you've been making. Talking about awkward and hard to bring up content, using your platform for good.

[@ralph734]

Probably one of the best videos on this platform about Dota2 game . I understand and I agree with you about all what you said . I was also a toxic player when I was young but I learned that thing with " muting " ppl and actually trying to tell my whole team to mute the toxic player and play as 4 . Insisting on that thing that we don't really need 5 ppl to win a dota2 game if we play well as 4 . But guess what , I'm also a human and sometimes I just can't go through a game like this , thinking that there's no reason to try to win a game for a player that is there to lose it . Sometimes even if I doubledown a match I can't accept ppl can be that toxic and retarded and I just let the enemy end . When things like this happens once in a month or atleast a week I can handle them , but the problem is these things happens more often nowadays, I get this dazzle type in my team atleast 1 game a day ; and when this happens every single day , this is not fun anymore . I think you know exactly what am I talkin about . Good luck on makin Dota2 a better community , I'll be here to sustain any of those videos 🙏

[@GiraffeBlues]

BSJ thank you so much for this video, it's an important conversation to have and you hit pretty much everything spot on. I really appreciate how unfazed you were in your response to the people in your twitch chat about how normalizing this kind of thing is exactly the problem. This definitely inspired me to focus my energy on the sane people in my team from now on, the change begins when you want it to.

[@TZAR_POTATO]

My approach is to report and mute often, and hope that low prio works as intended. Thanks for bringing up this game and your frustration, it helps the rest of us reflect alongside you. Keep it bsj.

[@sgtpatton]

appreciate ya man, never seen a video on this specific topic of the lack of accountability of the other players after being trolled, completely agree with ya keep up the great work ur really a stand up dude in this community

[@ladyrosalune8907]

So glad you made this video. I feel like this issue is getting worse. I've almost stopped playing (after 4 years and over a thousand hours) because every game has someone who is either griefing or just playing badly but the rest of the team ends up getting fixated and splintering apart. It's so frustrating. I'd much rather lose a good game than spend an hour listening to people harass each other even if we somehow manage to win.

[@Ozblock1]

Great video, spot on and very very mature. The other thing that is key is for people to get used to, and be better about is losing. Once you hit your rough MMR level you lose 50% of the time and it's not worth it to be miserable and angry at everyone at least half the time. Me and my friends were all attacking each other so I stopped playing altogether. But I am not invested in the community as much as you are.

[@thellamadoc]

well said mate, i follow u for many years now, and to see the improvement uve done no urself and ur effort to spread it to the community is amazing, wish u well

[@ricardo27t]

it feels like this video was made directly to me. Some times we forget that there are things that should not be treated as normal.

[@InvestWithSensei]

I agree with you BSJ, I did fall for it few times in the past and behaved like IO did here, honestly sometimes it just rube you the wrong way. But recently I have been controlling it better just mute that guy and play with the rest, maybe because I am ageing (I am 37 yeah Dota is an old game) or just don't have energy anymore to spend it on them and finally I have been trying to make KZbin investing videos which is taking most of my time. Great video bro, please keep it PMA keep it BSJ ;)

[@akamrahimichannel]

Hey Bsj. loved the video. thx for making it. I wanted to say that there is a loooong loooong time since you last coached someone especially in the new patches. you made some videos 2 years ago that would explain how to move around the map and how to farm efficiently as a carry. but now the map has changed a lot and i'm not sure if that content still applies in the new patch. i often find myself confused while farming mostly cant be around my team when a teamfight accures. pls make a video about that since you were gonne for a long time and we miss you. thx

[@seventhparrot9640]

Great video BSJ, being a good leader goes a long way. I appreciate you trying to better the community this way and it's something I will work on myself when I see it. Thanks!

[@khizzle17]

Incredible content--this applies to LIFE as much as gaming! I think we are all at fault for this at times. Thanks for addressing this in a mature way we can all relate. A great reminder of how we should be carrying ourselves both in and out of gaming. They overlap more than we realize... Don't stop bro!

[@rszebin]

hey @banana, I am happy you touch base on this, it has been melting my brain recently and I think I have a solution: individually measured performance and mmr is awarded wether you win or lose, not as a team. the victory still counts emotionally but if you perform well against the right metrics, you get your +25. happy to share more thoughts if you want to, trust me, it’s not crazy talk 😅

[@KevinCarlino]

I appreciate these BSJ experiential reflection videos outside of game analysis. Very well articulated.

[@mckenziecatface]

It's also important to start off the game with positive interactions and showing that you're supporting the team. I love the high five, saying thanks, a good ol "LET'S GO", bringing salves for my team ,ganking and communication to start off with a good vibe. That can prevent bad behavior in some cases.

[@samarindt]

Came to your channel years ago for tips on the game, left because of your toxic personality at that time. Came back some time later and I'm so happy for the development you have had as a person. I wholeheartedly agree in your sentiments in this video.

[@jasonwoodcock2014]

On point for what needs to be called out and actioned upon in the Dotasphere. The use case here resonates hard, and it really is about not giving into the toxic player's behavior and seeing what you can do with people who actually want to play (and possibly even win!) the match.

[@andreaswormanholmgaard1737]

Thank you for being a positive voice in the Dota 2 community.

[@EagleInFlames]

Very strong message, BSJ, good on you! I hear the same type of defeatist attitude in many other parts of life. For example "we shouldn't strive to create a better society because this is as good as it ever gets". Well... if everyone that's "good" stops acting that way and stay silent instead, then it's the bad ones that will be heard.

[@seventhtenth]

back in my day ppl would try and outplay eachother saying the griefing carries were MVP meanwhile you usually win based on vision and decision making so supports used to be able to manage two egos then the better team kinda did win.

[@christianlee1423]

as a mid player, one of the most frustrating things to happen is when you get last pick hard countered, enemy supports stealing runes, harassing you ganking non stop, then your supps will flame you instead of helping. they will procede to intentionally TP to their sidelanes and farm.

[@shoobo3548]

Your supports are just bad and don’t understand the game, sadly it’s the luck of the draw

[@aidzeeegaming5685]

C ycy cu cuch y c h

[@Blumenfreund84]

I can rely. Mostly youre best off by not saying or pinging anything and just trying not to feed mid. At some point your supports will roll in and they probably had a good lane, since enemy supports left lane for so long.

[@christianlee1423]

@@Blumenfreund84 i agree, nothing i can do but farm and try not to feed, some lanes are unwinnable, eg team synergy, supports rotation

[@Blumenfreund84]

@@christianlee1423 what made me so mad was the inability to communicate and cooperate. In a team game. For 30 mins. Felt like playing with bots. And then, 1 out 3 matches u get a team where it magically works. Idk why, but I felt fucked by algorithms most of the time mid.

[@xXDCZCXx]

I took a long break from Dota and come back here and there but I realized that the toxic culture can be stopped. But the movement is such a ways away. Everyone wants to feed into the hate train because they think it's entertaining. It's almost always trying to one up the hate someone throws. Taking therapy and psychology courses just makes me realize that everything toxic players do it's either attention seeking behaviour or just projects life events into the game. Much power and love BSJ! I love pushing this agenda, keep it up and hopefully people gain a brain and stop being toxic.

[@asdfasdfasfasdf-n2q]

When I used to play solo Q I found it very effective in these situations to say, right off the bat: Guys just ignore dazzle, we are winning, this guy just wants attention. You want to create some social shame around engaging with that behavior and also keep things focused on the game state (namely: We are winning). It's funny, even in situations where I am actually the target of the flame (or participating in it) - a quick "But we're going to win though!" goes a really long way toward getting the game back on track.

[@petterikaristo9528]

Yes! Positive comms is the way to re-rail those who are not hopeless and get the game going as well as possible. Others are hopeless, or primary griefers, but those we should not care as much as the decent majority.

[@Evdota247]

I stopped greifing after I accepted that while dota is a team game solo q isn't! yes I only play for my self without greifing or afk farming and it made me become really relaxed and calm when I play and it also made me a better teammate since I only focus on what I can improve and adapt within my self

[@mitcheljames7053]

You have issues, but I'm glad you can gaslight yourself into not griefing your TEAM.

[@Evdota247]

@@mitcheljames7053 you have no idea whats the point of solo queue

[@mitcheljames7053]

@@Evdota247 The point of solo que is to play 5v5 Dota with a TEAM of random people and presumably win unless you have such little control over your own pathetic life that you lash out and try to throw the game when things don't go your way so you can have "control" over the game and in turn, some tiny, insignificant fraction of your own pitiful existence. A normal person never needs to realize anything to stop griefing, they never do it. Zero empathy for anyone that griefs, figure your life out and stop playing video games if your mental state is so fragile.

[@Evdota247]

@@mitcheljames7053 solo que is the avg of ur performance over a large amount of games and it has nothing to do with your teammates beside adapting other wise climbing would be extremely slow -I greifed classically once a year but what I meant by greifing is giving up or playing less safely go project on someone else you sound like a warmed up lifeless weirdo writing paragraphs over a tiny misunderstanding

[@なるえええ]

@@Evdota247 "I stopped griefing after i accepted that blah blah blah🥰🥰" lmfao you're talking like a recovering alcoholic/an addict in rehab like bro you're GRIEFING

[@calebhartz]

Keep up the good leadership on having a positive attitude in dota, BSJ. Always nice to see.

[@tylerreis-sanford5234]

What kind of responsibility do you feel streamers have in helping determine/fight this kind of culture? I say this for two reasons, one, because YOU made this video, and I think this conversation is an important one. I try my best to be PMA, redirect flaming into "hey lets focus on getting back and winning this, X hero is easy to pick and playing alone" or "what timing should we smoke on". Trying these tactics often helps, and i think big names in Dota like you talking about them is HUGE for the community. Two, there are a lot of toxic streamers. Some are obvioualy toxic, and the community knows, others do it privately, off stream, or enable this kind of behaviour youre talking about in the video. I specifically have run into one guy, who you play(ed) with a ton, who I (and my friends) actively started abandoning games when hes in them. He puts on one thing on stream, and then in private games is an absolute piece of work. Do you feel as though people with your platform need to ask more of others who help create the dota culture?

[@Sugartoast311]

@BananaSlamJamma Great Video! My girlfriend doesn't play video games, and it's sometimes hard to explain to her what I experience when I play games like DoTA. I show her your videos from time to time and she finds them fascinating. It's validating to see that the human aspect, even for high end players, feels missing from competitive games. I think it might be a bit dramatic to call this video "brave", but that was the feeling I had after watching it. I hope we can all view ourselves from the highly critical lens you do, and also learn to forgive ourselves, and each other, a bit more. Having kids turned me from a DoTA rage monster, to a much better player overall (went Crusader 4 to Ancient 2 in less than a year by practicing self control.)

[@mohammadaminhoushangi3787]

Keep it up. I think most people also lose games 20% because of technically playing bad, 80% because of facing toxicity and not knowing how to deal with it. I like these contents much more than others, this is what other KZbinrs cannot tell you, but bsj has the attitude to give importance to it.

[@alessocas]

BSJ for me personally is important to know that are more people in the community that share my way to see the toxicity, even if I am from SA server sometimes I need ti know that there is more people to me to continue being as I am.

[@thedfg91]

I genuinely believe toxicity would plummet if boosting, smurfing, buying and scripting/cheating were properly and ruthlessly addressed. 4.5k and consistently climbing for 18 months from 1.8k. The amount of games with incredibly suspicious accounts/players is easily between 60-70%. Do I benefit from it as much as I suffer? Only if I solo queue. If I duo with friends who are legitimately say, 1k mmr below me 70% of games are skewed against us, easily. It leads to people getting really frustrated and to be honest it's understandable. Also I don't want to suffer or benefit from it. I want to play challenging, close games which in a functioning mmr/elo system should be the vast majority of matches. That is nowhere near the case at the moment. Something needs to be done.

[@lucamaurelli5877]

Really nice videos and the message to work with the rest of the team by calling them out and working together is powerful. To sad that, I still believe it is a double work, playing the game and dealing with toxicity because authority, e.g. valve, does not deal with it. It's like fighing drugs or mafia in real world without the political support and intentions to deal with it. Maybe you can win your dota game but I don't believe we can teach and change the dota2 community or experience. I think toxic people should be called out as soon as they ruin even a single game and handled severitely with long time bans, preventing them from talking/chatting for a long time, changing their pool so that they won't play with calm players and giving them less mmr for next games.

[@KramerPacer2]

I spamed games the last 4 months, because i strongly needed a break from sports and i need something to put my focus on. it was a hell of a ride and i started to get a grasp of the game and get a mental stable state regarding teammates and my own shortcomings in the game. honestly, the game is as awesome as a game can be, but even tho i enjoyed my ride, i feel how stepping back to make space for sports again fills me with anticipational joy. sometimes it is just the patch, the season event and its cosmetics and the fear of falling of from the game meta. my body feels like a new one, the tank is full and i look back to dota and am proud of myself to have stepped away from it once again. because i have a different purpose other than spinning the hamster wheel over and over to make the reality check happen, what mmr i would achieve over time.

[@attilaberdy9728]

Fantastic video! Looking for ward to more in this series.

[@bekcorvus823]

it's wild that this vid comes up right when I'm talking to my duo partner about this stuff

[@Shakeytii]

man, love that you recognise your passive aggressive tone. takes balls to post and admit you can be better. top vid for the game we love , thank you

[@pouriya8587]

Ah my earliest mindfulness champion. Good to see you still make videos like this BSJ. This way of thinking has helped me surprisingly a lot in real life.

[@violentchimp7657]

I’m glad you are figure out your passion. I wish you the best and hope you continue making the best dota content I enjoy

[@Rnjeazy]

Hey BSJ, you may not read this but I just wanted to let you know that watching you make these kind of videos really motivates me to be a better person and to try harder and be stronger both in mind and body. Thank you and please keep making more of these!

[@tranquero]

I've arrived to this conclusion before... and tried it... only to get bashed by the player that toxic player is in party with. The only solution ends up being muting them, keep playing to win and ignoring them wishing for them to detilt themselves bynot fueling their anger...

[@Luxalpa]

I'm giving everyone a fair chance, but anyone who distracts me from playing my game by spamming the chat with useless information gets muted.

[@patrickrodrigues6953]

The problem with competitive/like games is that when you make a mistake or when someone else makes a mistake the punishment is extreme. But when you or someone else makes a good move, no one is able to recognize it. Because it is always easier to criticize than to recognize and praise.

[@GriefersEveryGame]

7:10 "I don't expect it nor think it's gonna happen" YES BSJ, that is what expecting something means (thinking it's gonna happen) good job buddy way to not be redundant

[@yt-lh8kk]

I also feel that Valve helps to exacerbate this issue with tips and voice chat wheels. I think we can keep those in, but should also be allowed to mute tips, pings and chat wheels other than just chat messages and voice chat. I also would want more people to be aware of the dawn gate system and hopefully more support of it to have it implemented.

[@kian8061]

this is so true. I also think some people are mature enough to say or think that they were wrong and did a misplay, others have too much ego to say or admit it to even themselves, so they behave like that dazzle and grief. by simply not giving them any attention and winning the game without even calling them out they will be ashamed of their action. and even if they are not ashamed you will simply feel good because you won a game 4v5 and didnt let the person go into your mind and ruin your day.

[@cheezcola]

people need to step up and call out toxic behavior the right way. Great video.

[@yellowcar484]

Thanks for thinking about this topic. Thanks for helping people enjoy Dota.

[@c4rterdw4yne77]

Thank you BSJ. I hope we can improve as a community, everyone count.

[@DonaldGaron]

Thank you for what you're doing for this game and community BSJ!

[@shazlansyah2380]

Man..this is a good video.. not only applicable for dota but all of the entire video gaming platform. I wish this video gone viral.

[@armorose]

It's the frustration BSJ, the frustration and anger. When you work all day and you want to have one nice game after a long day, and this happens; there's nothing but rage. But yes, the right thing to do is to ignore him; but life ain't that straight forward. Though, with your videos (tutorials and mmr coaching session replays) I went from Guardian 2 to Legend 1 in six months. But I must say most games were atleast 4v5, or 3v5. Some games were 4v6 and 3v7. You can win the first two scenarios, but can't do shit in the other scenarios. And the matchmaking system of dota forces you to bear that 60 minute shit game cause else you'll get LP yourself. I play in SEA region. :)

[@99errorcode-sparrow]

Exactly, this is the right mindset. great video as always.

[@ChefRaekwon420]

I do sometime like solo Doto, especially for ranked, but I’m so happy I’ve had a solid group of guys that I have played dota with since its release, even through moves, and marriages, and births the homies still come to play dota. Makes it way easier to laugh off these angry players.

[@AndreyPLK]

We need to have a chance just to ban those idiots, like permanently if 10 ppl report him. And everybody will become super polite and thoughtful

[@BobDole1216]

Thank you so much for continuing to stand on this soapbox; it drives me fucking nuts how often people do the social equivalent of chain-feeding and just follow the idiots into fighting. It's like dude, you realize that letting them get to you and affect your behavior is *exactly* what they want, right?

[@dorharp]

Amazing talk. This goes far beyond dota or gaming. Thanks BSJ!

[@kiwicrusader1001]

unfortunately these "people" are not a small portion of the community. U might see it less in high elo because in high elo ppl have to actually play the game to get there, but in low elo the moment someone doesnt stack a camp or help gank a lane, u have a 1/5 chance they throw and u have to pray the enemy team throws as much for u to stand a chance late game. Also i wouldnt say this is a dota problem, this is a gaming community problem. From the cod kids spamming the N word like the letter E in any text, to the people who take competitive video games so seriously that they feel like this effects there credit score losing a match.

[@Micheldied]

Nah, I play at Divine/Immortal (not as high as BSJ or pros, but still relatively high) and people are toxic in pretty much every single game lol.

[@bluejay7058]

I agree and although I've been guilty of this sort of enabling behavior: I've eventually realized how self-defeating is. Dazzle ruins the typical 5v5 game, but he certainly has no power to then have that chain-react to the rest of his team and cost everyone a good experience: only those people do. I also think the boundary setting was pretty excellent: it's in their interest not to be muted as working with you is PROVABLY possible while appealing to Dazzle's non-existent ego isn't. Set boundaries around what is possible to both clarify that it's workable, *and* to not let whatever has it working be compromised. "I will mute anyone who talks about dazzle" seems harsh at first: but who would WANT to talk about him? A literal bot could play like he does in these moments of griefing, just concern yourself with the people in front of you, doing what it takes to win anyway.

[@ignacioalmonacid6153]

Great job BSJ generating awareness and accountability. We need to start changing our attitudes to improve the community of the game. The game is great, and if we got better behaviour it would be awesome.

[@tranquero]

21:20 In these situations, I always try talking normally to the tilted player and say "Cmon bro, look we are trying to win, please join us" (even if I muted them) and move on. Of course not it doesn't always work, but after some minutes sometimes they detilt themselves.

[@KingGr33N]

I challenge myself to bring out my A-game whenever I have those types of players in my games. And when I see the rest of my teammates doing the same I always say gj guys, we can win just don’t get cocky and bring out your best. It surprisingly works 7/10 times (doesn’t mean we win), but I’m proud of myself and teammates nonetheless. I love this game because of the challenge!!

[@MrYouAllKnow]

Good job adressing issues like this, toxic people create toxic people and it ruins the community. Lets bring positivity back to dota

[@HasiburRahim]

I started Dota when I was 15. As I grew up I realised in Dota people are not normal they are extraordinarily toxic and community don't even think it's abnormal anymore. As I realised the issue I pushed myself to control my anger and control my emotions more and more. I don't aim to be a TI winner in future, I don't even aim to keep playing Dota forever. But I plan to enjoy it while my real life responsibilities are small enough to afford the time for it. However, I am mindful of the fact that this game shall not change me as a person which I might regret in the future. Sorry if I made mistakes english is my second language.

[@Billionsmustchill]

21:42 Answering the question as If I were the monkey king or someone like him. It's not about my ego being hurt (I know, this is what the person with hurt ego would say but you'll have to believe me) and me just seeking reassurance being correct, it's almost entirely about the feeling of powerlessness and hopelessness from not being able to change dazzle's behavior and from things not going how they're supposed to. I would be full of joy and hope right after that good teamfight, but it would crumble after I remember that dazzle is still ruining the game and I still didn't change that. I could say "Hey, good job team we're owning" but would still feel the immense need to add "Except dazzle, of course, since he's an orphan" or some dumb shit like that. It probably comes down to the loss of the sense of control, which is an important psychological need for most people(to an extent). Personally, I often struggle with anger management *only* when I lose the sense of control, so I might be biased in my interpretation. Of course I would never do undeniably throwing things like IO did and of course BSJ's approach here is 100% the correct one. Just explaining the psychological/subconscious side of this behavior.

[@jamesrobsonza7752]

I started playing dota 2 back in 2012 and got severe anger issues before putting the game down in 2017 because of that. I was a really shitty person, I abandoned a lot of games, talked a lot of shit, and spam pinged a bunch, spent about half my games in low priority. It took me a long time to calm down and bury my anger, that part of me is gone. I came back to dota 2 on the same account in early 2024 just before crownfall came out and I have been slowly grinding unranked games. I had something like 1k behaviour score and Im currently back up to 9k. I dont do any of that stuff anymore, I dont give up on games, I dont rage buyback, I dont spam ping, I dont trash talk, and I have never neen happier playing this game. We can do better, we can be better and we can build a better dota 2 community. Toxicity is not acceptable. I agree with you completely BSJ and I am really glad I found your channel

[@Renan-cg2ox]

2:57 this type of behavior NEVER happened to me in party queue games. Because you need to trust your team is gonna help you and carry you trough adversity. 7:53 powerfull stuff, sometimes we think we re getting stronger but is all about getting more battle scars and trying to stay sane at this game... Getting better to deal with this people=mute everyone, block, ban, list of players you dont want to play with... This is not dealing, this is avoiding. 8:40 need to play with party queue, and stop thinking only individualistic. Ubuntu philosophy

[@PedroIgori]

The issue is they dont give you a permanent unlimited avoid list and valve hides it behind the subscription. If those players could be avoided it definitely would improve the game

[@shepcatsaba]

I appreciate your leadership qualities and wish you strength as you work towards improving our community ❤

[@JOELNICOLAJWZ]

I've been doing a similar thing. I used to be similarly toxic when I was a kid but at some point I just realized that I prefer to win games. Toxicity makes you lose so much more. A simple 'stop typing, start playing, we can win' goes a long way. Won about 70% of my ranked games this month and had 2 comebacks vs megas in a week.

[@bigmoose7]

I remember my behaviour score dropped from 10k down to like 3k because i started getting sick of people bullying others and blaming others for their stupidity and just started becoming the punisher and screwing around with them even if it wasn't targeted at me, i always knew my behaviour was childish but sometimes it cant be helped when you see a completely useless toxic person being so manipulative and nasty to someone thats actually doing a good job...AND THEM BELIEVING IT TOO and becoming quieter and less confident because of that in real time....nah they must be punished.

[@KeyboardWario]

the video is literally aimed at you

[@bigmoose7]

@@KeyboardWario Yeh I get that but honestly you see people who are even worse then that dazzle and id rather just go next then attempt to spend time with them.

[@JewTube001]

even when im super tilted all week i never go under 10k behavior. if you get as low as 3k you have some deep issues to address

[@bigmoose7]

@@JewTube001 My main is always above 10k and I just use the mute button but I have two other accounts where I do what feels right, I have no tolerance for bullying and for blaming if it doesn't make sense.

[@Elldar111]

As soon as Monkey King said "na hui" it all became clear why he behaves like that

[@hydroids9966]

It feels that a lot of players feel the need to be toxic. But rather than make the first step, they wait for someone to break the toxicity seal. As soon as its broken, they let it all out. They throw accountability, maturity, and patience out the window. In trade, they gain 5 minutes of toxic all chat, a loss and most likely a bad mood. I cant understand why people dont just try play the game out. Yes its hard. Yes you are more than likely going to lose. But use that time to try learn something or get a better understanding of some mechanics or interactions. Dont waste your time because someone else chose to be toxic.

[@TheSoleDweller]

*Thanks, sir, for acknowledging this joykiller states of mind.* These are the actual only downside I see in Dota (and always have been), a game we all love. Because it is an amazing game, as you said. Also, I feel a little bit like *Valve did go your way by adding this "same or close behaviour" match-making.* They are trying to punish those childish behaviours, saying: "you are ruining your teammates game? How about you see every game what it feels to you when you are the one who's griefed?" I see two openings (as far as the community is concerned) here: rather you finally quit Dota because you are fed up with those guys that are akin to you and acting as you; rather you get yourself together, grow as a human being as well as a teammate and claw your way back to decent games with decent people.

[@weasley313]

Tbh the tipping system needs to be removed. Its 99% used for toxicity

[@Ульфсаарвоин]

Here a Poem: May darkness and despair not last for long. Life in its complexity can be light and dark. In its mystery can reveal more mystery.

[@MM-vs2et]

I'm glad that the Dota community is in step 2 of dealing with a toxic culture, which is addressing the silent majority. This is a big step in the right direction towards a healthier community.

[@bennettsteen6451]

vulgarity and menace are allowed without serious repercussions and people talk at the height of their emotion without reflection. I myself play dota exactly to escape from responsibility, fellowship and ultimately from life. like any toxic relationship with a person, substance or a bad habit, you also get to eat what you brought to the table. 12k hrs since 08-2013.

[@CosmicCrops]

It is normalized because people are too used to saying shit and not getting hit in the mouth for it.

[@elsupremeo]

Actually had an experience like this last night. Was playing with my bros and we had someone piss themselves crying and ran down mid to feed for the first 10 mins. We all ignored him and focused on making our lanes better and began to win. In the end, we took one bad fight and lost it. The person that pissed themselves eventually came around after farming on their own and participated, tail in between their legs and all. To think, if they hadn't fed so much early, the game was in the bag.

[@gorceacgheorghe4283]

I have 10k hours in this game with perfect behavior score and I dont report often but lately all of my toxic reports came back with "action taken" notification, its kinda working. BSJ Im resonating with your mentality videos, it has to be us getting older

[@spooky4320]

The moment Io tried to help him, he immediatly goes afk , like a small child lol

[@elvis4868]

Yeah i recently had a game where cm fed gem and 8 sentries plus 3 obs but I just focused on farming and the 4 of us just rolled the enemy team. I didnt even realise how much the cm was griefing lol until i watched the replay

[@stevetedesco28]

I have this theory about games, that games are like a time capsule of how gaming culture was when that game came out. The way people act in Dota was not uncommon 15 years ago in all of gaming. In newer games people behave a certain way and are toxic in different ways, but once a game is out for a bit it kinda gets the culture of the game set forever.

[@GT_BigRed]

When I actually played a lot I used to (after realizing as you do here) just basically beg my team to mute the griefer and play 4v5 and hope he stops being tilted. It's the best thing to do. Furthermore what you do that's correct imo is muting everyone who was arguing so much they were distracting. You lose comms but #itiswhatitis it's best for your game and you can't help people who would rather argue with a griefer than focus on what can be done. Really like this take it's what I do when I encounter this (playing only 1 game a day atm cuss reasons so it doesn't apply to me atm most the time)

[@flashnimi]

I just won a game where our timber literally AFK, then sheepishly came back when we were winning without him

[@drooper0357]

Totally thumbs up. Here in SA servers we are, unfortunatelly, full of trolls and troll seekers/agitators. Its nearly IMPOSSIBLE to have a normal Dota2 game these days. We need to stood up agains this behavior.

[@Blumenfreund84]

I think a lot of what BSJ said boils down to a recent comment of his: In his experience, people act in DOTA as they would in RL. But I do think a bit differently, since there are certain aspects involved in a DOTA match, that differ a lot from RL. Firstly, a lot of players treat DOTA as their therapy. Since this game is so god damn frustrating it also brings out the worst in people. Secondly, in most cases of a toxic RL situation you'd be able to get out of these by just leaving the scene or acting in a decisive manner to stop this behavior. Online you cant do anything about it, except for ignoring and muting these people. Only a few people Ive ever witnessed who manage to build up toxic players with their authentic positive attitude and their willingness to forgive. Lets not forget that we all are but people. Thirdly, you might come to think that DOTA is a toxic game, since everyone is in a sour mood from time to time and the likeliness that of 10 people at least 1 is in that sour mood is probably very high. Thus we perceive this game to be incredibly toxic, since we see toxic players almost every match. For my part that is totally understandable, Ive stopped playing DOTA a month ago because of exactly this toxic attitude and I wont ever come back, which is fine for me.

[@chronos5940]

They should add an option where you can select if you would like to play again with a player or not play with them. Maybe not like the avoid list that's 100% not playing (not sure it works like this) with those people but more of a score for the queue. So like-minded people get put together more often and toxic people have a harder time queuing. And you shouldn't be put in a team with people like that.