Why is WoW Lore So Broken?

[@Nimgimli]

Really enjoyed this one and it popped up just as I was sitting down with a nightcap before bed, looking for something to watch. Thanks! (I always have to comment the next day since I watch KZbin on the tv with no keyboard or access to the comment section!)

[@ImStillPlaying]

Perfect! Glad you enjoyed it and could provide a bit of nightcap entertainment! Hell I'm just happy to receive comments at all so no worries on the timeliness!

[@hat3weaver]

Chapter markers!!!! Now that's a story

[@ImStillPlaying]

lol I know right? Look at me all content creatorfied and stuff..

[@JazzWhite]

I really enjoyed this, especially as a lore nerd. One of the biggest misses for me when it came to the story was originally a lot of wrapped up in raids that at the time casual players didn't get a chance to experience in game. Of course with LFR that changed and I think for the most part, despite the toxic nature of LFR, that was good. Overall I think when you have to take the player out of the game to figure out your lore there is a problem. They take a lot from other MMOs, what they need to take is the Hero panel in GW2 that gives you your characters while written story.

[@ImStillPlaying]

Agreed whole heartedly. Lore recaps or "The story so far" panels in game would be hella useful. FWIW, they have addressed (somewhat) the issue with so much of the story occurring in raids, even beyond LFR. Now you can talk to an NPC that will allow you to see the in-raid cinematics without even having to do them through LFR. Finding that NPC can sometimes be a chore, but they do exist. I didn't even do LFR raids in Dragonflight but I did eventually get the story. Well most of it..

[@JazzWhite]

That is a good addition. Cause sometimes you really only care about the story. They should call the NPCs Heralds and stick them inside or near every inn, bank, or mailbox lol. Then you'll never have a problem finding them.

[@ImStillPlaying]

@@JazzWhite I actually just discovered today the new expansion is going to have even more things geared towards solo players that love the story than I realized. I've already decided that's going to be the topic of Wednesday's vlog. :)

[@matthewlevine5134]

Well the World Soul Saga.. is just to get you to keep on for the next what 6 years.. most of us at 20 years into this game, will just keep going.. Think they want to get the new blood hooked. Lets face it when this game came out we were younger.. bodies dint ache as much.. ;) Still Story telling these days, lost art, for the instant satisfaction today's folks are into. ('Zon Generation 'amazon' Fast shipping.. see what I mean) One of the main reason still play through this, is for the story, mainly since I have been here that long.. Well, converted my Monthly sub to a 6 month.. since I know with my pre-order, will need something to push me through winter. See you out there in the grind!

[@ImStillPlaying]

Awesome! Yeah I've pre-ordered the expansion now and purchased time as well, so I''m definitely on board for this one (and who am I kidding the next two too lol). Once this thing drops we'll get on the dcord and run some delves together!

[@AntiGamer-de8vp]

I ended up getting burnt out on MMOs already in the dial-up era of the mid-90s or so after pouring hundreds of hours in Neverwinter Nights (the old EGA MMORPG on AOL), Dark Sun Online on TEN, Shadows of Yserbius and Fates of Twinion on TSN/ImagiNation, Sierra's The Realm, Gemstone 3 on CompuServe, etc. After I got over the novelty and social aspect, I remember so many moments where I was waiting in line for a major boss enemy to respawn for a major quest, having seen the party ahead of us defeat it while we twiddle our thumbs and make idle conversation waiting for the boss to respawn. And I started to get the strong feeling that nothing I do really impacts this world in any deep way when all the major story elements respawn, sharing this session with so many other players. I can't really feel like I brought about the downfall of a corrupt empire if, after I defeat the emperor, he respawns 5 mins later so that other people can do the same thing.

[@ImStillPlaying]

Hah cheers mate it sounds like your MMO roots go back as far as my own, cutting our teeth on $24.00 per connect hour services back in the day. I nearly got fired for all the company time I spent on CompUServe playing Island of Kesmai.. :) Yeah you definitely give up immersion for replayability in MMO's. I remember explaining to my young son at the time while I was farming snakes and bears in Dark Age of Camelot when he asked "Well when do you kill them all?" Ahh hahah that's the thing son.. you don't! Fortunately good single player games come along like BG3 from time to time to give us that highly immersive fix we crave, even while we can still enjoy killing kobolds over and over again in WoW.

[@AntiGamer-de8vp]

​@@ImStillPlaying Cheers and good times (save for the bills)! I often started to think after a while that MMOs might be interesting if they were designed more like a world simulation or strategy game, like using Age of Mythology as one the games you developed as an example but one where we zoom in and just control one person in this world as villages are built and destroyed, and empires rise and fall. But then I remember watching this video from Lord British on Ultima Online's virtual ecology. Apparently they started off with a fairly sophisticated design where plants grow under sunlight and rain, herbivores eat plants, carnivores eat herbivores, and with some form of reproduction. Then they expected some players to hunt and forage, but to largely live in harmony with the ecosystem. Yet apparently soon after they launched the earliest version of their game for online testing, players just completely swarmed and ravaged the environment, killing every single living creature in sight like genocidal maniacs and killing organisms faster than they could reproduce under that system. Apparently they had to then back out the system and fall back to a conventional system where such things just magically respawn soon after they're destroyed/killed. As far as single-player games go, it's been ages since I played games much but I was such a massive fan of Fallout 1 when it came out. It hit almost every thing I ever wished for in a role-playing game, but I've been able to find anything that quite matched it. I might have to give BG 3 a shot.

[@ImStillPlaying]

@@AntiGamer-de8vp Given what you've said so far, I think you would *love* BG3. Also, you should check out Stars Reach, Raph Koster's new MMO. It's trying to do something along the lines of what you're talking about - a living breathing world where the player has impact on the world itself. It's very much a modern day attempt at a throw-back idea.

[@parrydigm]

It's so fascinating watching the Big 3 (WoW, ESO, GW2) do this "anytime, anywhere, anyone" structure. They've all handled it slightly differently and some better or worse, but what I really appreciated here was hearing you talk about it. A gamedev's experience and perspective is gold, and by laying down the process and the why made me thinking about it in a way that wasn't frustration or rage 🤣

[@00Recoil]

I like your insight into Warlords of Draenor, though I don't entirely agree. Shadowmoon Valley and Talador were examples of excellent storytelling. (Frostfire Ridge, less so). I loved the Yrel storyline, along with Khadgar and Garona. Strong character building, such that Khadgar remains one of the most beloved characters to this day. But after that, the story fell apart. Gorgrond and Nagrand were empty task maps with scattered zone quests, while Spires was notable for opening treasures as the major xp gain. I think Pandaria had multiple great story lines and incredible immersion. More recently, the story of Lucy Waycrest fighting the witches and the drust of Drustvar was for me the greatest story involving a non-franchise character that Bliz has yet told.

[@ImStillPlaying]

@00Recoil OMG I'd forgotten all about Lucy Waycrest and Drustvar and yes I 100% agree that was a fantastic bit of story there!