"I don't even remember last week's topic" Me: *Remembers B's fate of the unknown fangirling*
@DedueGoobbue3 жыл бұрын
My boi Terra Thundercock. He's going in to fuck shit up.
@ZeroAoAnimations3 жыл бұрын
@@DedueGoobbue chad thundercock, theres no way terra can be that cool
@DedueGoobbue3 жыл бұрын
@@ZeroAoAnimations Well we don’t know he’s Terra yet from the trailers, but I was just quoting BB. At least Chad Thundercock is cool in the trailers.
@eddiepabon80203 жыл бұрын
I feel like that's why I liked hades paradox cups because it made you don combat differently and use all of you options
@onimaxblade89883 жыл бұрын
I hated Colloseum in KH 2 a lot as a kid but nowadays I really like it. The FF character boss fights still aren't good though.
@FabulousJejmaze3 жыл бұрын
The fights are fun but the challenges where you have to farm every enemy for maximum points is lame and stupid
@andrewgarrett13563 жыл бұрын
@@FabulousJejmaze They're aggravating to say the least, but I can appreciate how they challenged me and make me think outside the box. To anyone who actually reads this comment and wants to play Kingdom Hearts II or Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix, use Stitch and his Ukulele attack to farm points from your enemies. It doesn't do much, if any damage, which means you can keep them alive longer, and farm as much points as you can out of them. Peter Pan is also a good choice, but not if you want to complete a challenge in the Journal that tells you to get a shit-ton of points in a specific tournament.
@johnpantag4722 жыл бұрын
@@FabulousJejmaze Not really. Only for about 8 rounds out of 50.its annoying if you die.
@mookiedt Жыл бұрын
The paradox cup was ok.
@synysterdawn89133 жыл бұрын
KH2 came out in 2005 and was the third title in the series (2nd main title), developed in an era where patches weren't a mainstay of the industry, and when action games like it were still not as common (same year as DMC3, which set the standard for the genre). KH3 came out in 2019 and was the... 10th or so game in the series, and developed in an era where patches are commonly used for balance and fixes, and when action games like it are much more common and have come a long way in their design. KH3 has far fewer excuses for its terrible balance, design choices, and issues with the engine.
@yazmenakamura6750Ай бұрын
I still prefer 3 over 2. Fight me!!
@crispy_asch71103 жыл бұрын
I feel like general moment to moment satisfaction in kh3 is just.. weird. Like I didn't play kh1 for the combat, I was having fun exploring, collecting, and whacking shit lol. Kh2 was the combat all the way with the story beats. Kh1 and 2 have very different identities. I don't feel that sense of identity with kh3. It feels like they tried to combine kh1 and 2s strongest aspects and fell a bit short on both. That's why we still have fun with kh3, the soul and foundation is definitely there. It just wasn't its own thing comparatively speaking. That's my unasked for opinion.
@lachlanmadden21853 жыл бұрын
I found that I had fun with the combat in KH3 and for a lot of the exploration in KH3 was great fun but after a while it started to become a chore looking for some things, with San Fransokyo being the worst offender of that imo
@kingdomkey22623 жыл бұрын
I don't think ive ever heard anyone say that before, can I ask why its your favorite cause I'm curious
@CloneLoli3 жыл бұрын
@Andrés Francia Re:Mind also only fixed "some" of the combat and didn't really add to the base game.
@CodePika3 жыл бұрын
I have not played KH3 in awhile. And I always see some praise over the game, but there are just some moment to moments in the game that were just not that big. Like there were some moments here, but the beat stopped in some parts. This is not going into gameplay, but I hate that half of our bosses are nothing but heartless bosses. We only get a total of 2 Disney bosses, and we never fight the Organizations at the half way point. The only one you do fight is vanitas, and to be fair that's like a call back to BBS. Which I feel also had some good moments. I feel the game tried to focus so much on combining like you said Kh1 and 2 stuff, but it overall did not do it well. I feel KH3 should have did it's own thing, and not try to be a combination of the two games we enjoyed as kids. And I always always hear people say that ReMind makes the game better. I'm going be real aside from the combos you can't get unless you play New Game + and the Super Bosses. ReMind was not all "GOAT"
@raze2012_3 жыл бұрын
@Andrés Francia "Re:Mind really improved on combat but by that point the game´s identity was already set and it was honestly a little to pricey for most fans" I don't really like this argument because the identity should have also been set for KH2 vanilla in the same way. With Final mix coming in a year and either costing $50 in Japanese (on a region locked system), or costing $40 8 years later when it actually came out in English
@TophDaGreat3 жыл бұрын
The main criticism I had with KH3 (in comparison to KH1 & 2) When a franchise continues over time new things are added and old things are taken away. However, if the old thing that was taken away was good, it should be replaced with something similiar or something better. Makes sense right? KH3 had a lot of positive quality of life changes, but there were some trademark things from KH1 and KH2 that were absent completely in KH3 and it hurt the game for me. Unfortunately, ReMIND did not add them. Some of the things include... -No Coliseum (The Battlegates are NOT the same. They were half-assed). -Collectables (Like Trinity marks or the Crowns from FM, Torn pages from Pooh World). -Lack of Original Hub Worlds. KH3 only has ONE and it was nerfed to oblivion. (This really affects the pacing of the game IMO). -Story having good pacing (The start of the game was great. The end of the game was fun. The middle of the game was horrid). ReMIND added a lot of post game content, but really didn't change the base game at all.
@CloneLoli3 жыл бұрын
I completely agree and most of these have been part of my criticisms of KH3 since day one, even KH2 to a certain extent, KH1 has the best coliseum in my opinion and it has trinity marks, it's pacing is also amazing. KH3 could have really used short second visits to further solidify Sora's groups place in the Disney worlds and to further pace the game, I felt the main story of KH3 went way too fast from the beginning to the end, and short second visits/a hub world that's big that opens up more and more overtime would have been perfect like in KH1 and KH2.
@raze2012_3 жыл бұрын
potentially hot take: KH always had horrible pacing and it's the franchises biggest weakness. The Disney worlds really don't mesh as well as they could into a wrld that also wants to have its own overarching narrative. I think that's partially why the better stories in the games are the ones with little or no real Disney interaction throwing off half or more of the pacing. Days has almost zero disney shenanigans and some argue its the best story in the franchise (but its pacing is horrible for compeltely different reasons). BBS hits a good balance where you feel like the characters are participating and impacting the worlds, and learning from their adventures in places. But its pacing is held back by how you have to technically play the game 3 times.
@whatif98543 жыл бұрын
@Spooky i would argue that kh2 is pretty mindless ambling as well. Orgy XIII pops up every now and then just as they do in 3, and nothing really happens until the end when you decide to stop them. Sure you're "looking for riku," but not really. The majority of the game you just go through watered down disney world plots, occasionally mentioning riku or the looming plot. It's pretty similar to 3. The only thing 2 did better was the midpoint return to hollow bastion. Definitely helped the pacing by breaking the disney repetition.
@Iffem3 жыл бұрын
"-Lack of Original Hub Worlds. KH3 only has ONE and it was nerfed to oblivion. (This really affects the pacing of the game IMO)." the fact that Twilight Town is so damn tiny annoyed me SO much... every other time that a world would return in the Kingdom Hearts series with reused maps, it'd be bigger than the previous time it appeared, unless there was a good reason for it to be smaller. for example, when Traverse Town came back in DDD, it gained a Post Office, Garden, a set of Back Alleys, a new Fountain area, and two whole new districts (in exchange for the gizmo shop, hotel interior, alley, and merlin's area from 1, all rather small places in the grand scheme of things). meanwhile, Twilight Town in 3 goes from: the tram common, the path to the secret base, the area in front of the clock tower train station (and inside of it), the sandlot, the hilly corridor that connects all those previous areas, the three "rooms" of the sunset hills, the underground that connect sunset hills to TT's main body, the forest leading up to the mansion, outside the mansion, inside the mansion (7 rooms there, 2 of which are also in the simulated version you can access as sora), aaaaaaaaand Yen Sid's tower in 2... to just the tram common, sewers connecting it to the forest, the forest, and in front of the mansion in 3 (oh, and a huge building got torn out for Le Bistro). You can't even go up to the area in front of the clock tower train station, a landmark so important to twilight town that it's been part of the world logo SINCE COM and is LITERALLY THE BIGGEST THING STICKING OFF OF THE WORLD WHEN YOU APPROACH WITH THE GUMMI SHIP. it'd be like if you went to Agrabah in 1 or 2 and couldn't even go IN FRONT of the Cave of Wonders, let alone INSIDE... or, hell, bringing it back to Traverse Town, it'd be like if the first or third district was just gone for a whole game while the gummi mission view of the world was still the same.
@CloneLoli3 жыл бұрын
@@raze2012_ I flat out disagree, in KH1 and KH2 your characters interacted far more with the Disney characters making them feel like they're playing an important role in the worlds but also in KH1 and KH2 it's described as a huge journey/quest multiple times. In KH1 you're slowly sealing keyholes and gaining Gummi Blocks while looking for Mickey and your friends. You save Kairi before the final visit to Hollow Bastion and the final world, you've defeated Maleficent before the final world. You return to Traverse Town multiple times to simply take a breather and get more important plot details and moments of minor character growth, the world also in a gameplay sense shows the growth that Sora and the Gang are going through. In KH2 you're slowly unsealing the keyholes and more while trying to find out more about Organization XIII's plan and trying to find Mickey and Riku, you straight up defeat two members way before the final world is available and you go back around to each world to help solve there problems while looking for clues to Org 13's base. KH2 had some disney world plots completely unique to it for second visits and some for first visits to help logically extend Sora's role in those worlds. (Some are kind of bad though, lol) What are we doing in KH3? The characters have uber important tasks but literally none of them get completed until the end of the game, some stuff is built up to yes but nothing happens that's major until the very end. (By end of the game I mean, after all the Disney worlds.) BBS has good pacing because it's a long game and has three separate perspectives that has you travel to each world in different orders, if it was one continuous game switching between three perspectives it'd probably have very bad pacing. BBS also did have characters interact with Disney characters so that was good.
@Nyzer_3 жыл бұрын
Another few big reasons KH3 gets more criticism: - It came out after KH2. No one is going to criticize KH2 for not having learnt from KH2's mistakes, because that would be a temporal paradox. KH3 had the opportunity to learn from its mistakes, and it actually does this at times (such as the evolution of Anti Form to something that feels so much less like a kick in the groin in KH3). - It came out after all the other Osaka games, in which the Osaka team showed very little sign of learning from previous Osaka game mistakes or even just trying to follow what KH2 got right. - And finally, KH2's super broken stuff isn't just handed to you. Even when you do get it, if you're not messing around with it as your abilities amass, you don't realize how good it is. Stitch, for example - he's not as flashy as Drives, and doesn't give new movement skills for leveling him, so a first time player is a lot less likely to use him. And you aren't too likely to notice how often he restores your MP or blocks hits if you don't use him frequently, and on tough bosses - but he doesn't full restore you as soon as you summon him, so you're not likely to use him on tough bosses rather than going Valor, Wisdom, Limit, or Master for that restoration and immediate, obvious combat boost. Plus, baby Magnet is not that great - so you're not terribly likely to depend on it compared to what your X attacks can do, so it gets the same treatment, making it even less likely you'll combo it with Stitch. KH3 is different: there's not a big juicy distracting alternative from fire spam or Links that feels fun as hell to play and gives you super cool growth skills if you grind it.
@johnpantag4722 жыл бұрын
The anti form in kh2 is a punishment for using too much of drive forms. In kh3 it's a formchange that helps you while having low health.
@Nyzer_2 жыл бұрын
@@johnpantag472 Right. Like I said, there are some things that show that KH3 learned from KH2's mistakes. But for the most part, it doesn't. We should not be able to compare the two games as much as they do. "KH2 makes the same mistakes" is not a good defense. It's a two-generation-old game that was the first game in the series to use a more action-oriented combat style compared to 1's heavier lean on traditional RPG elements and CoM's card system. It's worse when the reason for not being able to learn those lessons is because KH3 seemed to deliberately discard all of KH2's iconic concepts. No drive forms, no drive gauge powering summons, no reaction commands, no party member Limits. That's an incredibly weird choice, given the praise KH2's combat design had. It would be like if Nintendo decided to never ever try to make future Zelda games use mechanics that OoT came up with, and then fans got mad at other fans for pointing out how silly that is. It's also bad that KH3 shoves so many of its new mechanics into the same mechanical niche: wait for a random-based proc and then press Triangle. Formchanges, Grand Magic, Attractions, and Team Attacks ALL do this. There's also a lot of overlap in what many mechanics do: press Triangle and use an AoE attack, for example. And I would argue that this sort of thing happens because they were trying way too hard to differentiate KH3 from KH2. KH2 came up with its new mechanics because there were no other existing concepts to fall back on. KH3 did the same because it didn't WANT to fall back on them. And it's perfectly fair to criticize the results of that choice more harshly than it is to criticize the results of something that didn't HAVE that choice.
@thejoulesthief68417 ай бұрын
or just use Final Form. There's a simple in game way to mitigate anti form @@johnpantag472
@Nobody_Shroom5 ай бұрын
Also, summons and drive forms are tied to the same source, so there is a choice to make, which is better than oh hey here ya go here's an overpowered keyblade form.
@rober1503 жыл бұрын
My big problem with KH3 is mainly with it's mob fights and it's huge numbers and arenas The thing is that in KH3 if you choose to not use your big AOE links/attractions then you are stuck chasing each heartless in a huge room to combo them individually and then repeat. That makes every encounter last longer than I'd like, and the longer it lasts the more likely I am of being sniped and one shot from something offscreen and that means you have to repeat the same large room with the previous 3 or 4 encounters before the one you died in. It's more time consuming and frustrating than it is fun So every mob fight is cluttered, enemies are spread all over the place and it's hard to tell what is going on most of the time, and all the while you have your heart in your mouth because there is always that chance of randomly getting one shot from off screen at every moment. So what can you do that solves all those problems at once? Links (and also some Shotlocks I guess). they kill all enemies fast and without risk of getting one shot from off screen. Why would I bother with any other option when all the other ones are more time consuming and frustrating? In KH2 nearly every fight happens in a smaller room with smaller numbers, it's easier to tell how many enemies there are and see the problem enemies and keep track of them, that makes it easier and more consistent to deal with enemies with all your options. Yes, there is always one option that will be better for each encounter, but the other options are almost as effective. That is the big difference between KH2 and KH3 that makes one really fun for me and the other not so much. In KH2 I feel free to try whatever I feel like at the moment in almost every fight because every option feels useful, while in KH3 I feel annoyed when I fight mobs because of the huge numbers and rooms and all the issues they create, every option that isn’t links feels so risky and underpowered against mobs, so I just end up pressing the skip mob fight button tl;dr: KH3 has way too many enemies in huge spaces and crowd control isn't very good outside of links, especially on crit where you basically have no magic
@slylover1233 жыл бұрын
OMG I was just telling my bf this. I'm at Toy Story right now after finishing Tangled, which had the most dreadful boss fight because of what I call 'big room syndrome'. Had no idea what was going on, the 'space' was so big my lock on would deactivate if I strayed too far, and the boss and I were just air dashing to get near one another to strike. Its been more tedious than fun :\
@aeroga23833 жыл бұрын
lol you can basically teleport in this game. the big areas are only a plus
@jR0xas3 жыл бұрын
Couldn't have said it better myself. I don't ever see a reason why I should frustrate myself by playing how I want in mob fights and get sniped from offscreen when I could just use a link and kill everything with basically no risk. And like you said it's frustrating because if you die you have to do EVERYTHING again which takes ages depending on how you play. It feels like this game's mob fights were balanced around links being strong which sucks because they are pretty much always the best option. The bosses are a different story, I don't feel like I have to use one specific thing to not get frustrated and you also can just retry them really quickly.
@HyMyNameIsMatt3 жыл бұрын
Animations in KH3 are just less snappy and impactful than kh1/2 and the game feels worse to play. The game hinges more on the pleasure of more enemies at once with bigger attacks like a Musou game. When a game just FEELS worse, it's harder to quantify and explain so we critique the other aspects of the game more to find out why.
@darksidebluez59662 жыл бұрын
the fact that we are comparing a PS2 game with a PS4 game just shows how KH2 is so much better.
@masonedgley9537 Жыл бұрын
@@darksidebluez5966 I didn’t like kh2 compared to 3 the only thing I liked more was the combat and that’s a stretch even among itself like the Disney worlds felt like filler more then any of the other worlds and the pacing in that game was dookie butter and I hated the world design so much I like kh1 for the feel the atmosphere and the world design and combat I like kh2 for the opening the major moments and combat and the bosses and I like kh3 for the combat world design feel and the bosses are alright not as good as kh2
@Emetemem3 жыл бұрын
I didn't truly learn to love Kh3's combat until I realized its based around chaos It's all about imploring constant sporadic movement in order to avoid and counter large swarms that attack from all angles. The true fun for me comes out of trying to do that as quickly and as stylishly as possible, like a Devil May Cry game If you look at the game from that perspective, then the mechanics of the spells and Sora's mechanics in general make a lot more sense it's all about finding the best abilities, weapons and items suited for zipping around the battlefield looking as cool as possible. The other kh games don't allow you to do anything close to what kh3 let's you do in that regard
@chriskoloski323 жыл бұрын
I enjoy kh3 because of the huge variety of weapons and combos, each interacting differently with magic too. It's not just the same old stuff like with kh2
@Emetemem3 жыл бұрын
@@chriskoloski32 don't get me wrong, I love KH2's combat as well. I think the fact almost every enemy had their own reaction commands added a lot of variety to each fight. But you're totally right. KH3 has so many different weapons, magic, and other ways to fight. I don't really get how someone can say KH3 doesn't have the best combat in the series
@johnpantag4722 жыл бұрын
@@chriskoloski32 Combos? The only combo is mash x to win. That's how I passed crit mode. Maybe you would do some magic buts it's still the same. In kh2 you can go from a finisher to a form to a finisher I'm the form then do a limit summon a summon. In kh3 you have high jump air dash double flight and dodge roll and glide.In kh2 you have dodge roll quick run high jump aerial dodge glide and they feel so snappy. Kh2 feels so snappy. In kh3 I press multiple times a button to do something.
@johnpantag4722 жыл бұрын
@@chriskoloski32 if you experiment with the combat it will be the same. In kh2 you can do hundreds of combos with the different limits drive forms and magic. In kh3 it's just the formchanges and you can't combo anything into anything.
@harishramachandra1746 Жыл бұрын
@@johnpantag472 lol as if you can't get through kh2 critical by mashing X. KH2 has reflect too which is even more thoughtless
@madratthemighty3 жыл бұрын
One gripe I have with this line of logic is that players have had significantly more time to familiarize themselves with the options in KH2 vs the options in KH3. That Xigbar combo would not come intuitively to the grand majority of players, only the most dedicated will find these crazy combos. Especially with the new item cancel, I feel that KH3 had a lot more options available now. There are already really unique complex combos showing up. It may not be to the same level as KH2, but writing KH3 off now when people are only just starting to discover what’s possible in the game is closed minded.
@Bl00dyBizkitz3 жыл бұрын
There's also a segment in the video where I don't talk about crazy combos or complex stuff and just describe my issues with very normal, basic combat interaction, if you're interested in that.
@tigerfestivals51373 жыл бұрын
Yeah i generally agree with this. We've had years to work out all the cool strategies with kh2 (and kh2fm) but we are just now discovering stuff like the item canceling.
@CloneLoli3 жыл бұрын
One problem is that these combos and this tech only seem to matter for superbosses or specific battles where as in KH1/KH2 lots of tech is useful throughout the game like for instance: - KH1 has spells that cast quicker in the air, most players wouldn't know that casually, I didn't even know that until like a decade later because I wasn't playing with speed in mind, speed as in quicker animations for safety however that opens up better gameplay options. (Very minor tech but still great.) - KH2 has a bunch of tech and the majority of it can be applied all throughout the game. Even if item cancelling opens up some new possibilities it's very likely that in the base game the go to strategies will stay the same, in mob fights use Simba, in big heartless battles use Ariel, hell even in humanoid battles using Ariel can be strong. KH3 presents a common problem in game development, it gives the player tons of options but some are just so ridiculously useful and powerful that you can default to them for the easiest possible wins. Like if some tech was found in DDD to speed up animations slightly and that overall helped your physical combo game that's be sick but many other options will still be safer and beat it for damage anyway. I won't write KH3 off per say but the tech should be useful for a majority of the game, the item cancelling actually could be useful overall but we'll have to see how useful.
@madratthemighty3 жыл бұрын
@@Bl00dyBizkitz You are correct that there is a segment of the talk that discusses general combat design flaws, the “there is always a caveat when you’re trying to have fun” section. However, my comment was not addressing the points made in that part. I do also disagree with the blanket statement “there is always a caveat when you’re trying to have fun” but for different reasons. I think a more apt description would be “there is always a caveat when I am trying to have fun.” As you say in the video, the reason why KH2’s flaws are not discussed nearly as much is because the rest of the game is so good that when you remember KH2 you think about the awesome free flowing, natural feeling combat and not about how Final Form Firaga and Stitch are super broken, or about any of the dumb stuff that’s in the game. I completely agree with this. Now, to simply state that KH3 is so bad that even its basic combat interactions prevent one from having fun would seem to me to be not objectively true. It is the reverse situation as for KH2, where people have convinced themselves that the combat in the game is so broken and dysfunctional that they discard all of the things that were great in the game. For example, guarding in the air, cancelling guard into other options, airstep, item cancel formchanges, awesome combo modifiers in Re:Mind, the wonderfully brutal superbosses, the beautiful worlds, the amazing soundtrack, the list goes on. Why is it that KH2 gets remembered for its best qualities and KH3 for its worst? To then dismiss KH3 as having not met some universal benchmark for criticisms to be discarded is ridiculous, because it is all a matter of opinion. It is my opinion that KH2 and KH3 both be remembered for their strengths, not their faults. Edit: I really hope I am not coming across as disrespectful here, I genuinely love both KH2 and KH3, faults and all. I also love these KH talks as they help me rationalize my own opinions on the series and foster discussion. Keep up the good work, and have a great weekend!
@CloneLoli3 жыл бұрын
@@madratthemighty Literally who are you talking about? I have never seen a single person say KH3 is worse than KH2 therefore the graphics are bad and therefore the music is bad. Find me these people. People that defend KH3 do this so often, they imply that people that don't like/criticize KH3 hate everything single thing about it when I've never seen anyone say they absolutely hate everything about the game. KH2 people were hyped as fuck for air guarding and attack/guard cancelling and they still to this day praise that.
@erazor2513 жыл бұрын
I decided to compile all of the tools used in the WR of Level 1 Data Org fights between the games. These are the results. KH2 1. Axel - Blizzard and Reflect 2. Luxord - RNG manipulation, Thunder, and Reflect 3. Xemnas - Reflect-Slapshot combo 4. Xemnas 2 - Reflect, Fire 5. Lexaeus - Reflect, Blizzard, Thunder, Final Form, Duck Flare 6. Saïx - Reflect, Duck Flare 7. Demyx - Duck Flare, Fire, Magnet, Wisdom Form, Final Form 8. Marluxia - Comet, Reflect, Final Form, Fire 9. Roxas - Reflect, Thunder, huge Limit Form combo 10. Larxene - Reflect, Final Form, Fire, Blizzard, Comet 11. Zexion - Fire, Thunder, Duck Flare, Final Form 12. Vexen - Reflect, Final Form, Fire, Duck Flare 13. Xigbar - Reflect, Duck Flare 14. Xaldin - Reflect, Duck Flare KH3 1. Luxord - Shotlock, Thunder 2. Xemnas - Fire, Agile Claws, Frying Pan, Shotlock 3. Xehanort - Fire, Agile Claws, Frying Pan, Thunder 4. Ansem - Fire, Frying Pan, Agile Claws 5. Xigbar - Fire, Frying Pan, Agile Claws 6. Larxene - Fire, Water, Shotlock, Agile Claws 7. Saïx - Fire, Frying Pan, Agile Claws 8. Riku - Fire, Frying Pan, Agile Claws 9. Young Xehanort - Fire, Water, Agile Claws 10. Xion - Fire, Frying Pan, Agile Claws 11. Vanitas - Fire, Frying Pan, Agile Claws 12. Terranort - Water, Fire, Frying Pan, Agile Claws 13. Marluxia - Water, Fire, Shotlock, Agile Claws, Thunder What these results tell me is that Reflect is OP in KH2 and Fire is OP in KH3 but thats obvious. The big difference between the two that this data doesn’t show is how those two spells are utilized. Reflect is a counter and does good damage so its used often and used to lead into other things like thunders, forms, and limits. Fire is used constantly and nonstop to stun-lock bosses to death in KH3. You may also notice that KH2 uses far more tools more often than KH3. I actually noticed that the order of the data fights in 3 is just going around the circle because there is so little deviation in strategy. And yet, in my opinion, KH3 has the better designed data fights, so it really goes to show how much worse balanced Sora’s move-set is.
@johnpantag4722 жыл бұрын
And again kh3 uses the same strategies with all the bosses
@meathir4921 Жыл бұрын
This comparison is kind of disingenuous. Comparing speedrun strats isn’t exactly optimal to a casual player; I could make the case that Ars Arcanum or Final Form Firaga could be spammed in the same way to chew through like 60-70% of most data battles. The only reason half the Data battles in a speedrun use other things is either: the fight is ultra restricted, Reflect is even more damaging whilst providing i frames leading to consistent loops, or there is some gimmick that out damages Final Form Firaga or Limit Form Ars looping.
@GreenNamekian Жыл бұрын
The Data bosses in KH3 have 50% resistance to Fire damage according to khwiki, which makes the DLC bosses 20% more resistant to fire damage compared to most of the base game bosses, which have 30% resistance to most elemental damage types. The reason Close-Range Fire magic is specifically used as opposed to the regular Fire magic like in the base game is for the same reason that in KH2 they use boss loops and/or stunlocks in the Data fights; it's because if they don't use it specifically to stunlock the bosses, the bosses will use a lot more of their moves, which results in a massive time loss. In the base game you basically never see Close-Range Magic being used even at the end of the game, so it being used in the DLC is a product of the DLC bosses' design ( _cough cough_ hyper-armor and a massive percentage of DR during attack animations _cough cough_ ) rather than it being a balancing flaw. Also, KH3 actually allows players to build around Fire magic with equipment, whereas KH2 doesn't really (at best KH2 only allows for a 40% boost to Fire damage if you equip Bond of Flame and the Fire Boost ability. KH3 allows for an 80% boost to Fire damage, or a 100% boost to Fire damage if you equip the Amazon pre-order DLC keyblade). KH2's bosses in general are also highly resistant to magic damage (they usually have 75% resistance to most or all sources of magic damage), so magic is inherently pretty weak against the bosses in that game unless they're either weak to a certain spell or the player is using Reflect, which has ridiculously high PMs. I also wouldn't use speedruns as a metric for how balanced a game is, because I simply don't think you can judge a game's balancing based solely on how many different tools are used in a speedrun. That's an inherently flawed metric because what's faster in a speedrun is not necessarily always the faster strategy categorically, even in KH2 itself. In an RPG, it's possible to grind or go out of your way to set up specific other options are strategies by optimizing a build, allowing those strategies to either be comparable to or better than the speedrun strats. Also, speedruns of KH2, by the logic of using speedruns as a metric for balancing, arguably prove how unbalanced KH2 is because while most of the player's tools are used in an any%, most of those tools are only ever used once or twice in the entire run, which means that they aren't particularly viable on the whole, and watching any speedrun of KH2 indicates that certain strategies are inherently faster than others, sometimes to the point that strategies that cost less resources than others are actually faster than strategies that consume more resources, which is bad balancing to put it mildly. That means that a lot of the player's tools are bad outside of the hyper-specific situations they were designed for. This is a side note, but I think it's a bit reductive to not include the different Reprisals, which Shotlocks are used and other things like Cure Converter as tools used in the KH3 Data Org speedruns. This list seems disingenuous for that reason. For example, in Data Luxord's fight I believe the Nano Gear's full shotlock is used (either that or Happy Gear's full shotlock), whereas in Data Larxene's fight Ultima Weapon's shotlock is used instead.
@aidanwow15933 жыл бұрын
My main problem after playing KH3 on Crit is that they clearly did not make any attempt at rebalancing the game mode for the HP/MP reduction and damage increase. Almost everything kills you in two hits unless you are over-leveled; and some things, like the Gigas, can kill you in one hit from 100%. This is especially frustrating because the maps are so open and filled with large packs of enemies that can attack from off camera to hit you (*cough* Angelic Amber *cough*). This basically limits you to having to use Links, Keyblade finishers, or Shotlocks to clear most of the game. Cuisines could help with this, but were basically unusable until after Kingdom of Corona simply because you had to farm the ingredients. KH2 did have things that could kill you very quickly on Crit (Dancers, Assassins, Sorcerers, Emerald Blues, various enemies if you miss their RC), but because there were fewer enemies to deal with at once you could counter them without having to rely on Drive forms, Summons, or Limits to clear packs of enemies regardless of level. Sure, Reflect was broken af, but you didn't need to use it for everything. Those things were mainly for convenience or experimentation, not because they were the only way to clear mobs safely. Square put a lot of thought in designing a fair, but challenging Critical mode in KH2 by starting you off with several growth abilities in exchange for you being able to die a lot easier. I don't remember if KH3 does this on Crit (haven't played on a non-Crit difficulty since the game released) but it really needed something like that.
@bevvvy13743 жыл бұрын
Thanks for letting me know that I shouldn't bother playing KH3 crit mode(why was crit not in the base game anyway?)
@ziongamer69053 жыл бұрын
You do get abilities like that at the start of crit! I literally carried over my Ultima for crit bc of Amber. She was fun to fight for sure! But the off screen attacks (with no audio cues from what im aware of) are stupid. And that goes for every boss.
@unknownredacted35133 жыл бұрын
@@bevvvy1374 On a video regarding Remind by SuperButterBuns, she mentioned that Crit wasn't available that early on so the devs get feedback and incorporated it into Crit (don't know if that was the case or not)
@boyishdude1234 Жыл бұрын
It sounds to me like you aren't using food and armor to improve your defenses. The only worlds you should be getting two-shotted in when on-level are Olympus and Twilight Town, and most of the enemies that can do that are pretty easy to deal with anyway. Angelic Amber kills you from off-screen? I would recommend staying in the area where the fight starts, clearing out all the mobs if you need to while keeping Angelic Amber on camera or knowing where she is, and you shouldn't have any problems, even at Level 1, because as long as you don't move outside of that "zone" additional mobs will not spawn, allowing you to limit the combat to just the Angelic Amber herself. KH3's combat requires more situational awareness than KH2's does. Angelic Amber is very challenging on Critical Mode, but barring rare instances of her slam attack Guard Failing (probably due to a bad hitbox, or perhaps frameskipping), there's really nothing in the fight that's unfair or unmanageable. KH3 Crit gives you way more abilities than KH2 Crit does. It gives you every single Reprisal aside from Payback Strike, Aerial Recovery, Damage Control, Combo Master, all three Air Slide and Superslide abilities, Rising Spiral and Groundbreaker, as well as three Critical Mode exclusive abilities (Critical Counter, Critical Recharge, Critical Converter). It also gives you the AP to equip all of them, and all of those abilities aside from Critical Converter are equipped by default, so you can use Rising Spiral and Groundbreaker in the tutorial fights (Shadows and Darkside). What it doesn't give you is abilities that are comparable to the ones that were overpowered as starting abilities in KH2 like Finishing Plus, Reaction Boost and MP Hastera, of which all of them substantially reduced the amount of skill that would normally be required to play the game well. It is no exaggeration to say that overall KH2 is easier on Critical Mode than it is on Proud Mode.
@stormysoup108312 күн бұрын
Them lowering your MP because it only served to make links more broken, links are just objectively better than spells on crit because they aren't effected by the smaller mp pool
@tranquilmischief3 жыл бұрын
I totally agree that KH2 was more fun to play. It also turns out I like having a bunch of worlds to play rather than 6 well made worlds that begin to feel stagnant. It begins to remind you of KH2's prologue. I also was looking forward to return to tutorial level island from the first game after the KH3 trailer in 2013. Also whats the point of using Cure when you can just summon Simba who heals you and begins stomping around? The hub world was nothing and the whole game in general kind of reminded me of the problem between Melee and Brawl, where its kind of dispiriting to see the successor of an adored game fall short in more areas than it improves.
@johnpantag4722 жыл бұрын
I have mastered kh2 but I don't feel like putting that much time on kh3. I haven't even finished the dlc that I bought for 30 bucks. It takes so much time to learn the bosses.
@joshuariser86053 жыл бұрын
The fate of all devolved debate: framing issues. All good discussion is holistic; respecting not just the specifics but the context of specifics. I can take one scenario from any moment of anything, criticize it into the ground, and make it seem like the worst thing of all time, and all while ignoring everything that created said problem in the first place. It’s easy, which is why it’s a common tactic in discussion. KH2 and KH3 share a franchise, but they are separate games in and of themselves. Ultimately, KH3s issue aren’t just franchise problems, they’re KH3 problems that undermine the game’s interactivity and longevity. KH2’s problems are mostly imbalances that can be accepted in the grander context of what the game has to offer.
@raze2012_3 жыл бұрын
I feel it's just foresight that shapes the frame. KH2 had similar complaints. But at this point, Final mix has been out for 7 years in english .People don't remember vanilla KH2 anymore. We're in a very "now" ish moment in comparison with KH3. Wonder if the same will happen years from now.
@optidalfprime39046 күн бұрын
@@raze2012_ 3 years later it still very much applies. Even more so with Re:mind. It just makes KH3 flaws more obvious.
@MugenCannon973 жыл бұрын
I enjoy KH3 alot and genuinely have alot of fun playing around with all the stuff in it, and I still listen in intently to all these talks since there really are alot of flaws with the game which can get irksome to deal with or work around, but the core gameplay is still enjoyable for me. Glad BB's ending there acknowledges that experience as being possible and doesn't actively go after anyone for enjoying the good bits of the game. 2FM's still my fave tho. Plays like a dream, and it has Donald Duck say *"Sora! It's Sephiroth"* to give me lethal levels of whiplash every time without fail. KH games are good, worth having talks like these about. Keep up the good work, BB.
@BadZombieWhy3 жыл бұрын
spamming Simba in Arendelle is the optimal way to play so you can get that stinky ass world over with ASAP
@MeteorFalcon3 жыл бұрын
I have a big issue with KH3 when compared to KH2 in regards to mob fights. In KH2 there are quite a few ways to approach a battle or situation comfortabally in any difficulty. If I wanna use Drives, Summons, Limits and even physical combos later on get really nice. With combat mostly letting me do what I want I can almost always win the fight. In KH3, I tried to approach battles how I wanted (mostly using fun Keyblade transformations and physical combos, with magic splashed in). But on higher difficulties I just kept getting hit out of nowhere and during moments where I couldn't physically dodge due to long animations. After getting frustrated for so long I made a rule for mob fights: if I died to nonsense 2-3 times in a row while playing how I wanted, I would just switch to Simba to get it over with and move on. Suffice to say, I resorted to Simba many times.
@im10853 жыл бұрын
u can dodge roll out of attack animations to cancel
@MeteorFalcon3 жыл бұрын
@@im1085 That seems like more of a bandage to a bigger issue. Also what about the hit out of nowhere part?
@im10853 жыл бұрын
@@MeteorFalcon yea the camera needs to be zoomed out for sure but to call attack canceling a bandage is really just being over the top. its a good mechanic and pretending its something just to hide another defect is not giving credit to what they did with in trying to fix their combat.
@MeteorFalcon3 жыл бұрын
@@im1085 Dodge Rolling mid combo is 100% an amazing feature, I just don't think it fixes the issue of long animations either punishing me or slowing combat.
@im10853 жыл бұрын
@@MeteorFalcon long animations dont punish you as you can cancel them at any time
@andrewgarcia9553 жыл бұрын
I want my drive forms man, I’m sorry guys but keyblade transformations just weren’t doing it for me. Second form and double form were totally better feeling
@N0mil3 жыл бұрын
It's the lack of two keyblades and unique feeling attacks.
@photonalchemist65743 жыл бұрын
I agree. Most of the keyblade transformations kinda feel the same and dont add stuff that interesting to sora's moveset.
@OneRandomVictory3 жыл бұрын
While I like how drive forms and the drive gauge were implemented way more than keyblade transformations and situation commands, I prefer the latter simply for the fact that they were better balanced. I never felt like any of the transformations became unusable late game and none of them felt particularly bad to use like Wisdom form without magic. You also weren’t locked into them because keyblade switching exists now which also makes having options taken away like guarding and your other movement abilities that weren’t form specific less jarring.
@cryguy00003 жыл бұрын
@@photonalchemist6574 I mean some of the transformations were literal reskins of others. They just feel like you get to mash X better, because you don't need to care when playing the game.
@AngerG3 жыл бұрын
I never felt the need or want to use any other blade other then Kingdom Key, Oblivion, Oathkeeper or Ultima Weapon at all casually
@hollowfiedmellildy3 жыл бұрын
I want a KH talk about chain of memories
@whowhodoo3 жыл бұрын
KH3 favors style of substance. Not saying that KH2 doesn't, but pretty much KH3 feels like its trying hard to be flashing and the core design of the fights demand more AOE otherwise the player will be overwhelmed. So it falls onto the design of the fights which don't put you into unique situations. There are effectively 2 modes. Army fight or Boss fight. So all fights need to be dictated by that. And I think that the army of heartless fights boil down to the fact that KH3 maps are just too huge, and I think Kh3 could have done with scaling down the playable maps to a smaller area and as such reducing the battalion size and mix up the types of heartless you find and you have to approach each battalion differently. IMO
@Prengle3 жыл бұрын
With the ReMind patch and once I realized the beauty of airstep, I honestly really dig KH3's combat. The movement is just absolutely nuts
@sailor30473 жыл бұрын
kh3 is honestly fantastic. i only heard negative things about it, but i went in with a neutral stance and came out very happy.
@johnpantag4722 жыл бұрын
I love kh3s combat especially with the mods so I can customized it but still kh2 has the pro to be able to experiment with the combat In different ways.
@redhanded33 жыл бұрын
growing up; i didn't even really use summons. the only time i used them was when it was required to in coliseum. now i know the power of summons. mainly stitch. i think when people discovered optimal play; they forgot that this isn't the way you HAVE to play.
@mewminator3 жыл бұрын
I dunno about some of these points, kh3 has some major design perks over kh2 that people just look over. You say that in kh2 you just wanna hit the button? I hit the button then some soldier or hammer snipes me halfway across the arena and I can't do anything about it even if I saw it coming because it's sora doesn't cancel out of combos with defensive tools as well as kh3. I jump and attack a book master in cor and immediately clank on the book and now it's about to slam a book in my face and I can't get away in time with a glide. There's also sorcerers, which if you try comboing at the wrong time just murder you. All these would be less of an issue with kh3 cancelling. Kh2 can make you eat shit a lot for doing combos against mobs and your only defensive tool is reflect, which you can still get sniped between the finishers, limits or a drive break. While kh3 does have more enemies on screen, there are more ways to i-frame your way through a combo, be it flat out cancelling or a situation command. This goes double for mid-air, since you can't chain magic in midair except for master and final, 1 reflect is all you get with massive recovery, you can't even aerial dodge if you perform a combo in midair until you land. What I'm trying to say is you have more outs just pushing buttons in kh3, you block a boss' attack, counter to check for an opening, find that they're still super armored, just dodge away. In kh2 you would hope for your attack to parry or turn into a block. Small note, and this is more of a post game thing, but kh3's aerial dive is the best tracking combo mod in the franchise.
@CloneLoli3 жыл бұрын
I mean this is straight up untrue, you're so unlikely to get sniped in KH2 that cancelling attacks while cool isn't really required, I've never been outright sniped and killed in KH2 unless it was my fault for not reading the situation. In KH3 I've been sniped dozens of times simply because I can't see the enemy off-screen or because I got caught during a long aerial combo. The specific enemies you bring up in KH2 are just that specific enemies and so can very easily be chalked up to player error like the "soldiers". In KH3 you also have many enemies like that, the centaur enemies that don't stagger much and have quick attacks, the Marie Poppins heartless that has a laser beam, the armored heartless that don't stagger at all, you can write them off as just getting better but then you can also do that for KH2. You have many defensive tools in KH2 besides reflect, use guard, use drives, use specific magic at specific moments. The combos in KH2 are fine and have always been fine, one mechanic not being there does not break all of KH2.
@LazyDazyDerg3 жыл бұрын
Like the only thing with the hammers is that they have disjointed hitboxes when they hit the ground. But you can clearly see the shockwaves. The freaking Marry Poppins in KH3 are literally designed to snipe you from afar. Seeing how there placed away from the mob. Or scattered separately from each other. It's really annoying. It pretty much forces you to after each one first, than once you take them out. They. You can deal with the mob
@mewminator3 жыл бұрын
@@CloneLoli kh2 isn't broken because of canceling being missing, but the fact that you can get sniped mid combo is a real thing that has happened many times. Air pirates with their massive dash, a shaman turning invincible off screen and harassing you while you try to do anything, aerial diving a crimson jazz can sometimes be a death sentence just because you thought it was pausing, all real issues.
@mewminator3 жыл бұрын
@@LazyDazyDerg the problem with hammers is the attack where the throw themselves, it has no real audio cue and has been proven to travel indefinitely, people have had them stuck on the walls of CoR because that attack just keeps going.
@LazyDazyDerg3 жыл бұрын
@@mewminator I mean it kinda depends where your fighting them. Like I won't lie and say that in small corridors there are easily brutal to deal with. Same goes for any other enemy in those fights. But I find in like more open areas their not really much of a problem because you have a better view. Besides for sound cues.
@raze2012_3 жыл бұрын
I agree KH2 allows you to have a lot of options... once you grind up all the forms and growth skills needed for the system. Including something as simple as Dodge roll, a skill every other games have like an hour into the game. Kh2 is so limiting in the beginning it's no wonder some people consider Roxas' section to be the worst intro in a KH game. At least Destiny Island Sora could do some parries and controlled air combos while you wait to get access to magic and skills. It's to KH3's benefit and bane that it gives you most of your "moveset" in the beginning. Spiking an enemy would be godlike in KH1 where the most annoying enemies in the game are the flying variety. in Kh3, you just zoom in on them. In critical, you have combo master from the beginnig and you can even fly all the way up to enemies super high in the sky. also devil's advocate: Water technically lets you be defensively offensive in theory. shield an incoming attack, and then strike back with a hit that staggers and opens the enemy up for a combo .In practice, it's clear they were afraid of creating another Aero/Reflect with this, so the shield is pathetic. And this actual utility got realized in the countershield keyblade style.
@stormysoup108312 күн бұрын
Water is a poor man's reflect because the I-frames don't come out on frame-1, the damage is minimal and it doesn't stagger, staggerable attacks, counter shield is neat but it's attacks suck, it's finisher sucks and it's only saving grace is the counter, it felt a lot better to have reflect as a spell which you could cancel into at a moment's notice while still being able to continue your combo afterward
@cougarcp Жыл бұрын
Another problem is everyone is comparing a now 8 year old game that has completely been fleshed out and explored to almost its depths vs a game that came out 4 years ago
@guigasp74043 жыл бұрын
I know I am kinda late to the party but I still want to bring up my point of view on your answer in this video BB. I feel I agree with you on this video on what you are saying in terms of what flaws of KH3 are discussed here and your arguments are valid, but I would answer differently for 1 thing. To me, the lack of consistency in criticism regarding the "optimal broken stuff" is linked to the synergy and pushing for creativity debate. In KH2 and in KH3, you have broken stuff and strategies. It's bound to happen in such expensive games with so much options that at the same time try to be ultra flashy and make you powerful. The problem to me is that in KH3, they don't feel like strategies. They just feel like broken stuff. In KH2, stitch + magnega + thundaga shits on most mob fights and make them trivial. Reflect spam into combo into limit form can just make some bosses not exist ever. You have broken af strats. But it's actually fun and feels good because they are strats, you have to think, learn, and execute them very well for them to be broken. Because you have to use multiple different tools in a certain time window or do a lot of micro decisions and actions. You don't just press 2 buttons and get the full package. The broken stuff is broken because of synergy between very good options that would be absolutely terrible on their own. Reflect spam only won't get you very far, limit form without a big opening will do damage but it's not a win button. Stitch is on it's own a defensive summon, not a crowd control efficient one, you have to think about using crowd control magic to use the refill that makes it such a great crowd control tool. And not 1 type of magic, thunder spam would let you open, and magnet does low damage. The synergy brings a bit of balance (you won't just stumble on a broken strat, you actually have to test things out and think) and a lot of fun. Now take KH3. The broken strats for mob fights are either magic aoe and pressing triangle when shit appears in reaction commands, or just bring out Simba and fuck everything by pressing x repeatedly. The broken boss strat is just fucking fire spam and that's it. Where is the synergy? Where is the reward? Where is the FUN? In KH2, you can be broken if you invest into the system. It feels like a reward for you being better at the game and at the same time it seems like you outsmarted the system itself and basically are cheating. You feel even more in control of the game than you were. You feel more player agency, with the same technical level of it. It's fucking dope! Broken = Fun! In KH3, your broken stuff are... your basic kit without any added thinking of anything. You can be broken literally all the time without any effort. It doesn't feel like a reward anymore. You just feel like the game is poorly balanced. It doesn't help that where in KH2 there was an entire spectrum for the level of play because all your options were viable in one way or another, KH3 has either the broken stuff or the frustrating bullshit and the only player agency is just the choice of being optimal or making the experience more painful for yourself. It doesn't feel fun. It just feels broken. It's has been made flashy without thinking about what made this flashiness sick before. Once again, I don't want to trash on the game too much, I personally still enjoyed it a lot even before the DLC (that fixed a lot of this problem btw, it's sick af) but I still felt that there was "something missing", "lacking" and when I understood what it was, I stopped searching for it for the rest of my playthrough to not ruin my 1st experience completely because of what I wished for. But there it is. To me this portion of the lack of consistency in the criticisms between KH2 and 3 exists only because people don't elaborate much. Yes broken stuff is problematic in 3 and less in 2, but there's a reason for that. When criticising the reasoning someone makes, don't stick to the 3 1st sentences. Be sure you get all the thing before saying... well things that are just wrong. Since the problem with broken stuff is not the same in both games, then there may not be a consistency problem. Not saying that all points are like this, but I feel that some are and that can get very upsetting on both sides of a debate if either or both don't understand fully what the other is really talking about.
@johnpantag4722 жыл бұрын
Guess which strategies are more complicated. In kh2 to be broken you need to experiment with the combat to do insane damage. In kh3 I feel like everything is free.
@mrbubbles6468 Жыл бұрын
Here’s the thing though. Fun is subjective. In both 2 and 3 setup is required. The only difference is what people find more fun. I’d posist that most people find KH2 more fun because they played it when they were much younger for the most part.
@tylercafe1260 Жыл бұрын
KH2 dick riding doesn't make you cool. Makes you cringe
@anxjos3 жыл бұрын
TL;DR: Its not about how broken they are, but how easily one is broken compared to the other I think people complain more about kh3 compared to kh2 cause in kh2 it took a while for you to have acess to the broken stuff. In the first worlds in kh3 the game give you water/fire cufflinks (which unlocks acess to late game -za spells amd boost elemental dmg, including summons) and a summon that can easily one shot bosses
@lovesgibson3 жыл бұрын
If KH3 is so easy then where are your videos of you whooping all of the data org bosses and Yozora???
@anxjos3 жыл бұрын
@@lovesgibson I never said that the game difficult was easy. I said that, compared to kh2, KH3 is easier to break the game balance due to cufflinks
@lovesgibson3 жыл бұрын
@@anxjos okay, show us a video of you playing the super bosses on KH2 and KH3 and showing that the KH3 ones are easier. The truth is just that the KH community is filled with KH2 fanboys who will criticize anything, because nothing will live up to KH2 for you guys.
@anxjos3 жыл бұрын
@@lovesgibson Oh, my bad, I didnt notice you were a troll until now
@marioa.71803 жыл бұрын
@@anxjos Cufflinks aren't broken. You can't spam them and basically have to spend your entire MP bar spamming the same spell as the cufflink to get a guaranteed -za spell. If not you have to pray to RNG god to get the -za spell by doing something else. In my experience, you don't get the broken stuff until you reach Monstropolis (Simba spam. Before that was Countershield, but got nerfed after an update).
@megasoniczxx3 жыл бұрын
While I get that a lot of content is at the end of the game anyway I feel like people tend to forget that things like Final Form Fire Spam or the overpowered nature of magnet are only things you really see at the end + post game. KH3 kind of just makes you OP almost right off the bat with quite a few cheese tactics to make use of as early as twilight town. With KH2 it felt like a lot of your powerful options were earned whereas a lot of KH3's are just handed to you, made even worse by the lack of any resource management to reign you in. This isn't to say that I don't enjoy KH3's systems at all, in fact over time i've grown to enjoy them as much as I enjoy KH2's but on top of the game being made almost two decades later (meaning they had plenty of time to work out how to properly balance the game) I think you can make a lot of good cases for why the criticism is consistent if you take into account the context of the games as a whole.
@Darkyan973 жыл бұрын
While I love KH3 the biggest criticism I can think of is how it approaches some harder mob fights (like the olympus minotaur one). They're kinda made to be annoying so you spam magic or team attacks to get over them quickly. The other is the pacing of the story (middle of the game is really meh) Everything else I found really enjoyable, Re;Mind especially. I really hope Osaka team learns from this in regards to the future. Re;Mind is a step in the right direction, and knocked it out of the park in terms of bosses but mob fights still need to be more optimized.
@dutchpotato35573 жыл бұрын
I love these people who talk about “consistent criticisms” and then compare a secret end game drive form that can only be obtained in the final world of the game, and a basic spell u obtain after beating the tutorial boss. If fire was only OP in keyblade graveyard then yeah it would be unfair to call kh3 “just fire spam” but it's not. Not only are u incentivised to use it because of broken accessories like fire cuff link being available stupidly early into kh3, as well as obtaining the fire boost ability before any other spell boost abilities, but with both Corona AND Arendelle being almost entirely filled with enemies that are weak to fire (In the case of corona the flower nobodies literally go invincible if u don’t hit them with fire) OF COURSE people are gonna come away from kh3 thinking it‘s just fire spam simulator, because the game is seemingly designed to encourage that mindset regardless of how much depth the game may or may not actually have. It’s literally the same problem that KH2 has with people saying it’s “just mash X to win” the difference is, as you delve more into kh2’s mechanics and it’s higher difficulties you realise that simply mashing X isn’t as effective as actually utilising your entire kit. As opposed to KH3, where even on higher difficulties, simply using fire spam + links IS the most optimal/efficient and most of the time safest way to beat the game (not counting limitcut of course).
@marioa.71803 жыл бұрын
That's BS. I have spent half of my gaming life playing base KH2 and the game never encouraged me to use the whole arsenal. "Mash X to win" was the only thing I needed because melee combat was automatized enough to take me by the hand through the entire game. Wasn't until the arrival of 2FM and its QOL changes (mainly Critical Mode) that I started to use other mechanics (offensive magic included). And even then you can learn to dodge properly and still pass the game "button mashing".
@MichaelPhillips-jw4bj3 жыл бұрын
@@marioa.7180 Its obvious by kh2 he means kh2fm.. This idea that 2fm is a new seperate thing is different for many people..its a 2007 release that people like BB,bizkit,auron etc were playing and posting on youtube for a like a decade. For many kh2 and khfm2 have been one in same for such a long time. No one thinks of the base game. For others its like a new thing
@marioa.71803 жыл бұрын
@@MichaelPhillips-jw4bj Even then, all of KH2FM (not counting FM content) can be beaten just spammimg Reflect because the game was designed around that kind of strategy (remember, base KH2 didn't have Dodge Roll, so you needed something to compensate... Quick Run doesn't count because is optional and doesn't have I-frames until level 2 or 3). Only FM bosses are designed to avoid that strat by being pushed away as soon as they hit Reflect, or have high magic resistance. Anyways... I think the whole conversation is kinda pointless since we're complaining about tools that were put there for less experienced players and don't get really OP until you get more abilities, higher tier magic or outclass the world's level. It's as simple as stop using strats and getting more creative/experienced since the games never force people to spam the same stuff over and over to win.
@abcrasshadow93413 жыл бұрын
A thing that wasn't mentioned in this talk is that KH3 is newer. They had a long as time to perfect the feel of the game and they had newer better tools to do it, but they didn't succeed. Also there is little to no reason to bitch about the stupid choices of kh2 because Square won't go back and change them. But KH3 is not that old so maybe your voice can be heard, maybe if you criticise the game something can change. Just my thoughts on the topic.
@bevvvy13743 жыл бұрын
Exactly my thoughts. Just the fact that KH3 has had 12 years of perspective and still absolutely squandered its potential is enough to negate the whole "why aren't they criticized the same?"
@Oscar-bj9ut3 жыл бұрын
I couldn't agree more. I don't care what you do. Just fucking improve man... At the very least don't degrade. There is no excuse for why KH3 shouldn't have learned its lessons from the YEARS prior.
@GaijinController3 жыл бұрын
Its true. If hard-core KH fans didn't criticize how bad sora felt we wouldn't have gotten the KH2 abilities nor the ability to cancel out of them. Osaka and Nomura have said before that they watch videos of KH fans like bizkit047 so the voices are not unheard
@GreenNamekian Жыл бұрын
Sora feels fine in KH3, though? The floatiness is intended. The game's challenge is crafted around it. Not every game needs to feel like KH2 to feel good to play. I for one think falling in KH2 feels pretty bad, because he's obviously not going to the ground at a "normal" speed despite the game revolving around natural physics for the most part. KH2 also has its fair share of floaty attacks, yet I never see anyone complaining about the virtually unusable floaty aerial magic, Master Form and Final Form being floaty by design (with Final Form's movement as a whole oddly feeling too rigid and too slippery at the same time), or Wisdom Form having floaty, slippery movement that feels like you're sliding across the ground with butter under your feet with a similar feeling to Final Form's ground movement, which just makes controlling it feel really awkward and uncomfortable. There are other examples of floatiness in KH2, but I digress. If you're going to criticize KH3 for its "bad game feel", you need to criticize the relevant elements of KH2 for the same thing. Otherwise you're just a hypocrite with double standards.
@GreenNamekian Жыл бұрын
@@bevvvy1374 They need to be criticized equally for the same things because that's good optics. If you don't apply standards consistently then you're just applying double standards, which is a form of hypocrisy and it makes you look bad besides. The innate value of criticism is that of knowledge and understanding, not practical outcomes. It doesn't matter that KH2 isn't going to be fixed or learn from its own mistakes, because there is still value in addressing, explaining and coming up with solutions to its problems both on their own merits and as those problems directly relate to a sequel, assuming the issues of KH2 are actually applicable to the newer game and people aren't just looking at an apple and then complaining that it's not an orange, which is 90-99% of the "criticism" that KH3 has received over the years.
@heroicgangster99813 жыл бұрын
I believe KH3 has this sense of wanting the battles to seem more reliant on adaptability. Keyblade switching to change setup and tactics mid-battle, having great team member finishers to help you out in a combo, having the ability to move from one enemy to another far ranged and instantly. And I really love the combat system especially with magic being very fast-paced like melee combat. It's very exhilarating to me. But to me the only problems I have with KH3 combat is that there no sense of working towards Team Members specials other than the vague sense of keeping them alive? At least making sure both/all partners have HP, using some of both Sora's and the teammate's MP with a definitive cooldown would be cool (could actually allow super boss possibilities for Donald and Goofy). I hate that this sense of RNG/chance for partner related combat practically ruined the chances of them being used competently for post-game bosses due to the removed agency deeming them only usable for casual fights. (I fight for my partners in mainline KH games) Like sure, they'll get their butt beat in KH2superbosses but at least there would be some sense of utility to their presence to "aggro" the enemy or using a Limit for style/utility. I just find it very very awkward and disappointing how stuff like attraction flows and your main party members combat being removed for superbosses had to happen because a major part of their utility comes from chance. KH3 would be much better in its unique mechanics/systems (with maybe the exception of unison attacks because they're relatively harmless) if they made it work like the keyblade forms (aka HIT ENEMY WITH KEYBLADE YOU GET FORM). Something that you work to in a battle. If KH3 wanted to emphasize having the player adapt to their environment and enemy climate more enjoyably, all aspects should be able to flow like a line graph.
@heroicgangster99813 жыл бұрын
(Second time on this channel I complained about no superboss Donald and Goofy lol. They were built good but not good enough!! :’( (Party members in KH games are just very very important to me.)
@heroicgangster99813 жыл бұрын
Roope Reimi Yeah switching party members would be a very unique addiction to the series. If kh3 got unison attacks from ffxv, I want mid battle member switching to be a thing.
@zexulia3 жыл бұрын
What about the criticism that KH3 was too easy and had a lack of endgame content on release when KH2 on release had the same issue? KH3 and KH2 were both only super improved with the addition of the Re:Mind/Final Mix add ons. So where is that criticism towards KH2 English that KH3 got on release? Would love a response on this because i always felt like people gave no patience and acted like KH3 was never going to be good after release just because they were comparing it to KH2FM rather than KH2 Vanilla.
@TheGreatAndYOU3 жыл бұрын
kh2fm-2007 kh3-2019 🤔🤔🤔🤔 after all that time couldnt even make a improved game in anyway
@whatif98543 жыл бұрын
@@TheGreatAndYOU they improved the worlds in every way. Theres a lot more combat options. Keyblade upgrading was a treat we never knew we needed. Gummi ship was better. Story/characters/directing was better. Lucky emblems were a great addition which encouraged exploration. And with re:mind we got some of the best boss battles in the series (better than 2FM garden of assemblage btw) Idk, sounds like a better game to me 🤷♂️
@whatif98543 жыл бұрын
@@TheGreatAndYOU also, vanilla KH1 had much better worlds and endgame than vanilla KH2. So what's it's excuse?
@TheGreatAndYOU3 жыл бұрын
@@whatif9854 lol kh1 is better than 3 in every way especially the story, fan fictions of kh3 was better than kh3s story. Imagine hating on kh2fm
@CloneLoli3 жыл бұрын
Being fair I actually did see people say that when it came out. Bizkit047 laid that out in his "The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly" review of the game.
@iggyp43903 жыл бұрын
Great video as always. I think what it comes down to is this: while KH2 does have its problems, KH2 was (imo) a better game for its generation/time than KH3 is for its gen. And it comes down to experience vs inexperience. KH2 was made by a more experienced team than KH3, and it does show. I always think about the amount of space wasted in KH3 ( look at the size of the world maps out-of-bounds compared to the playable areas, esp Arendelle and Olympus...). It’s no wonder that the game encountered disc space and load-time issues when it was trying to fit 8 massive open worlds into itself. This is not meant to disrespect Osaka or belittle their achievements. In addition to their console inexperience, they also faced development setbacks that would have been a challenge for even the old Tokyo team. At the end of the day, I feel the two games should be criticized in context of their generations. The KH3 team benefited from technology (and budget) the KH2 team did not have. While the two games do have their problems, KH3‘s seem a little less excusable to me and more due to developer error/mismanagement than hardware limitation. I respect Osaka’s improvements (especially with ReMind), but KH3 did inevitably suffer a little from their inexperience. Even if it was an unavoidable outcome, KH fans were justified to be mad at SQ after almost 20 years of brand loyalty. (It also certainly didn’t help that Nomura couldn’t direct the game as hands-on as he would have if not for FFVIIR and that he didn’t bother writing much of a main story scenario for them to work with.) I really think they should consider KH3 Final Mix (although it would probably be closer to a remake tbh lol). KH3 does have a lot of great potential, and it’s a shame that they seem willing to let it just fade into obscurity when the team had put so much “heart” into it.
@whatnottodo26993 жыл бұрын
I'd rather have KH3's worlds over KH2's bland ones tbh. Even the linear worlds in KH3 (Tangled and Frozen) had more depth in terms exploration and traversal than, say, Mulan or even TWTNW.
@iggyp43903 жыл бұрын
@@whatnottodo2699 I prefer it too, but even then I’m sure the KH2 dev team would have approached things differently if they had the tech the KH3 team had at its disposal. What I mean by “wasted space” is the amount of 3D, rendered background space. Check out the Arendelle out-of-bounds video. Miles and miles of background 3D mountain ranges taking up precious disc space! It’s just bizarre and imo reflects a kind of naive over-ambition, as if the team’s excitement at playing with the new engine overruled their practical judgment at times. Lol I swear you could easily fit a Radiant Garden, Castle Oblivion/Land of Departure or Realm of Darkness map in the space occupied by those mountains. And at the end of the day, for the Dark Seeker finale, original worlds and story content are what the fans were looking for. I think the team may have been too eager to show off their talents for Pixar/Disney that they lost sight of what their priorities for this game should have been.
@johnpantag4722 жыл бұрын
To be honest kh3 is the best game Osaka team made. Look at the past kh games from them. Bbs is a broken Annoying to get platinum mess DDD is still annoying and is filled with issues and recom has horrible balancing and annoying bosses. 0.2 is floaty af and the enemies are insanely aggressive.
@reidpattis31273 жыл бұрын
I personally absolutely loved the core gameplay of kingdom hearts 3, even more so than kingdom hearts 2. With that said, I wholeheartedly think every one of those points are very valid and rings true to me. Kingdom hearts 2 is a very....... magical game, and the gameplay just feels so good in an almost surreal way. I personally enjoy kingdom hearts 3 more for the way that Sora moves and the almost over-simplistic gameplay that may turn many people off. Yes, I agree with that it feels a bit like you’re fighting the system, but I ironically enjoy it and feel that it adds to a certain charm to the game. In fact, funnily enough, even though you’re fighting the system, it almost feels FLUID in a very unconventional sense to me. It’s like.... you’re fighting the system, but JUST enough where you can still feel the fluidity of the controls. But I don’t think it’s for everyone and understand why many are against it. I do hope we can find a middle ground that both the kh3 and kh2 communities can enjoy in the coming games. I do love at least the movement of kh3 and hope for it to continue in future games.
@onimaxblade89883 жыл бұрын
I think I know what you mean. Like you have to put in WORK to make stuff work in 3 BECAUSE shit is wonky. And it has charms even if it can frustrate.
@johnpantag4722 жыл бұрын
Kh3 is a good game but the randomness and the huge nukes need to go. Situation commands need to LEAVE.
@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz3 жыл бұрын
applying the exact same criticism to both makes no sense when one had years to learn how the other works. KH2 was a huge leap forward in mechanics compared to KH1 and both were on the same console, but from KH2 to 3 it's questionable if they improved at all after 2 console generations. in fact KH3 has the same combat flaws 2 had and some more. think about it, in the same console gap DMC3 evolved into DMC5. the mechanical gap between DMC3 and 5 is immeasurable while the gap between KH2 and 3 is debatable at best and negative at worst.
@cryguy00003 жыл бұрын
That's actually a really good comparison. I finished dmc3 recently and while I still really enjoyed it both as Dante and Vergil, there was just so much more you could do in 5 it was amazing. And unlike KH, DMC had 4 in between which also had enhanced gameplay, but it had some fundamental flaws people weren't a fan of. And after a sorry excuse of a reboot, 5 blew me away. KH3, even though I'm not a big KH fan feels so empty and soulless sometimes by comparison
@neobahumuth63 жыл бұрын
a bit unfair since DMC5 is A STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
@JonathanRiverafrickinnice5553 жыл бұрын
A very solid comparison
@JonathanRiverafrickinnice5553 жыл бұрын
@@neobahumuth6 PROVOKING DARK CLOUDS IN ISOLATION
@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz3 жыл бұрын
@@neobahumuth6 you could say dmc5 is the reclaimer of his name
@tryashtar3 жыл бұрын
Really good points. I feel like it's hard to admit that something as subjective as "satisfying gameplay" is such an important factor, so people try to compare more objective things like unbalanced mechanics or weird jank. But at the end of the day, both games are just a long parade of mob fights and boss battles, so those being fun is top priority. When a pack of enemies is presented to you, what does it feel like? Is it another slog to tank through, or an exciting opportunity to try something interesting? Your idea that "sub-optimal" strategies in KH2 still feel just as fun is 100% true, even though it's near impossible to prove. It naturally turns the mind away from min-maxing whatever consistently does safe free damage as quickly as possible, and towards growing your effort until your own personal strategy ends up just as optimal! It's just like you said in the turning point video: I'll give some unbalanced mechanics the benefit of the doubt if I can have a blast doing it. But if the system is just incohesive and shuts down everything that isn't just max safe damage, why would I even want to engage with enemies? Anyway, I'm basically rehashing what you said but far less coherently, hahaha. I think in KH3 and other games, after failing a mob fight, your takeaway is usually "I need to do more safe AOE," i.e. there's only one true peak strategy on the "graph," and the closer you get to it, whether you add in your own experiments or not, determines your success. Whereas in KH2, every fight has a different lesson, and there are a handful of different peak strategies you can move towards or away from. Sure, one of them may be a bit stronger than the rest, but identifying your niche and moving towards optimizing it is greatly engaging and enjoyable. Well those are my thoughts. Great video!
@ZZAFRETZZ3 жыл бұрын
The sub-optimal play in kh3 is really fun. But you just don't show where it works really well. You say that the casual play in kh3 is constantly not fun while kh2 casual play is consistently fun like there is no shity and tedious bosses and enemies in kh2. You say that kh3 doesn't have utility in its magic when that's completely wrong. Aero in kh3 is a fantastic spell. You can use it like a kh2 magnet by casting it and then jumping over the flow motion trigger and then using aoe magic. You can combine it with the thunder shock effect for insane damage in mob fights. Or use the flow motion effect normally in clever ways with keyblade transformations. You can also cast it and then charge a shotlock while the enemies are stuck. So much utility. And water can hit the enemy multiple times. If you don't want enemies to snipe you from far away you can use air step to get to them instantly, that's why it's in the game, or cast a magic spell on them or use a shotlock. You say keyblade transformations are all the same but that's also wrong. Look at counter shield/ honey blasters/ Mirage staff/twin yoyos are generally good for mob fights/ hyper hammer and the drill are good for breaking super armor or staggering big enemies/ the spear and the flag are generally good for bosses and single targets. I'll agree with you on the base combo but that was completely fixed with the last update. Kh3 also has combo canceling which is useful if your comboing an enemy and another one comes to attack you, which solves the problem of kh3 having a lot of enemies on screen. You say that kh3 handicaps you but you don't talk about how kh2's forms are tied to your party member, which means you can't use them while one of them is down, and you have to heal them if you want to use it which could get you killed. And sometimes party members are absent from your party which prevents you from using forms. While in kh3 there is Critical converter/ rings, which almost eliminates the randomness. I recommend watching this channel : kzbin.info/aero/PLdGd_-2IoMEG65_Wf8wJbPfKwNZCO0gtv It shows how amazing the complex play in kh3 is. I love both kh2 and kh3 but I'm tired of all this nonsensical bias. Both kh2 and kh3 have good gameplay, and if you look at it objectively you'll see that the gameplay in those games are as good as each other because they both have flaws that are shared, and also flaws that are not. And they both have good things that are shared, and they both have good things that are not present in the other. Also excuse my English I'm not a native English speaker.
@CloneLoli3 жыл бұрын
Just wanted to point out "Critical Converter" and the "Rings" does not "eliminate the randomness." There's still lots of randomness in the system, this has been proven.
@ZZAFRETZZ3 жыл бұрын
@@CloneLoli that's fair. Put it lessens it which is good,For rings. But I always get a situation command when critical converter is on. If you have a video prove for specifically critical converter not working please show me.
@alicevitoriano3 жыл бұрын
he has a video presenting kh2 flaws... you should watch it before saying that he thinks kh2 is flawless
@ZZAFRETZZ3 жыл бұрын
@@alicevitoriano I did watch it. I didn't say that you think he thinks kh2 is flawless. But he heavily undermines and Shits on kh3. And falsely accusing it for not having good depth and amazing gameplay overall. Not all of his criticisms are false of course but a lot of them are. And he's heavily bias towards kh2.
@bevvvy13743 жыл бұрын
Zz zZ That's just how he feels. He didn't even really specifically state many objective facts about why KH3 feels worse to him(which is fine). Most of them were subjective things I believe. Christ, I hardly used anything the game gave me because I felt like they were all shitty gimmicks. Hated shotlocks, hated forms, hated summons, hated flowmotion, and hated attractions. That doesn't mean they were objectively bad, just that I didn't like them. Which I feel is what BB is trying to say
@CloneLoli3 жыл бұрын
I think the biggest argument against there being absolutely inconsistent criticism between the games is the fact that there is a bit of dishonesty with regards to the criticisms of KH2, there are legitimate ones but some are untrue or just unfair I would say like for instance: The "final form fire spam comment" this is useful for superbosses but sub-optimal for practically anything else, there are still quicker ways to defeat some bosses and in some fights it's literally not possible, KH3 has the yo-yo fire spam that works on every single superboss. The point about the Stitch magnet + thunder spam, yes that's a legitimate criticism but only to certain point, that strat won't work against pretty much any bosses in the game. Simba and Ariel work against the majority of KH3 combat even some boss fights, not all mind you but arguably more fights than that Stitch strat would allow, plus beyond that there are better options to beat many of these mob fights faster which can't exactly be said for Simba or Ariel in KH3. You can criticize KH2 for many things but in terms of consistency, people need to be consistent themselves, I'll list of several of my own criticisms of KH2: - The exploration sucks and I don't think CoR makes up for that enough. - Sora can get TOO many drive bars and they can charge far too fast in 2FM (If it was a tad bit slower to charge it'd be fine I think.) - Stitch is overpowered just not really the same way that video describes. - Reflect spells should do moderately lower damage. (Even though I never agree with the meme that you just spam it to win because that's literally not true.) - Some bosses are just not very fun fights or are poorly designed. (Oogie, Genie Jafar, MCP/Sark, Vexen.) - The amount of meh minigames is ridiculous. (I don't think many are "bad" but I don't think they're all that interesting, I do think that RPGs always need a couple of these to break the monotony but not the amount KH2 has.) - Pride Lands visit 2 is just kind of bad, it's literally walk here, walk there, fight minigame battle, walk here, walk there, fight boss, done. - Valor Form falls off pretty fast, same with Wisdom Form. My primary criticism of KH3 stem from the combat loop being too samey all the time and what feels like way less to do, I wanted far more content in KH3 but I feel like I didn't get that. Edit: Actually a final point I'd like to make is a comparison to another franchise, Halo. In Halo 2 if playing on Legendary you basically never want to use any other weapons besides the Battle Rifle or Covenant Carbine, they're useful for just outright killing enemies faster and useful for keeping your distance from enemies, the only weapons that beat them are things like the Sniper Rifle or Beam Rifle and power weapons like the Rocket Launcher or Fuel Rod Gun. This makes it so basically half the weapons aren't really useful. In Halo 3 if playing on Legendary the Battle Rifle and Covenant Carbine are still great but every single weapon can kill enemies in a much shorter amount of time and can help with various situations, this allows Halo 3 to obviously have some dominant strategies but you can play more of the way you want to play, both games will kill you fast if you don't think about what you're doing but Halo 3 even with imbalances allows you to properly use more of the sandbox and weaponry in the game. Both games are great but Halo 2 definitely has the worst balance in the series and every (or most) Halo player/players will tell you that, they won't say "well this other game also has imbalance" as if that protects Halo 2 from criticism. My point is that KH3 is balanced sort of similarly to Halo 2 except for the fact that KH3 is a much easier game than Halo 2 on the highest difficulty.
@Zephhi3 жыл бұрын
The only real way KH3 excels over the other games is in worlds and some exploration aspects. The gameplay (combat specifically) shouldn’t even be debated, because one is obviously better. And yeah, meal buff fire spam. When KH3 was less than a month old, I beat the superboss in 1 try just from holding L1+Triangle. Pretty dumb
@superfluousstuckupitude25123 жыл бұрын
One thing that's pretty interesting to me is the video they use as their "proof" SHOWS that not every heartless is susceptible to the Stitch strat. Like a few seconds in you can see a heartless pop up that's immune to magic LOL.
@MaxLoafin3 жыл бұрын
If every fight has its own optimal strategy, then there's not a "dominant strategy". Kh2 has plenty of powerful options ranging from summons and spell combinations as well as the drive forms and limits but they don't all work on everyone. Kh3..... I can beat anyone with Simba/Ariel and/or fire spam. Another note of contention is that in KH2, you are in full control of using your abilities whereas KH3 introduced luck with the random situation commands.
@CloneLoli3 жыл бұрын
@@superfluousstuckupitude2512 Nobody Sorcerers are a great example of magic immunity, I believe magnet effects them but the standard attack spells don't, plus they can attack regardless of stun. Certain enemies can also enter "berserk" states and ignore magnet but that's rarely a thing enemies have, the Cars and literal Berserkers have that though. Magnet definitely shouldn't have worked against most big enemies though lol
@GreenNamekian Жыл бұрын
@@Zephhi Dark Inferno is immune to Fire damage in Phase 3. You literally can't kill him with Fire magic, barring maybe an Endless Magic + MP Thrift stunlock strat that makes it so he can't get into Phase 3 (I think that's possible? I've never tried it), but that's an optimized build that requires accessories that are only available through optional content and the strat itself requires you to know how to properly take advantage of MP Thrift to substantially reduce Firaga's MP cost to nearly 0. If this strat is possible, then it is justified in being overpowered.
@CloudXStrife1363 жыл бұрын
Hey BB, wanna say ive recently started a level 1 crit 2fm run and used your sgdq 2017 run for reference when i get stuck. Been a while since i played 2fm, some rough parts make me feel like back when i played for the first time and struggled. Speedrun/optimal strats feel really fun when you can pull them off, so ty for getting me into this
@darkfire14083 жыл бұрын
So, when using flowmotion attacks, the enemy's position relative to you determines the type of attack. So you can chain thunder's finisher with the most powerful single target flowmotion ability that you have after airstepping from above. You could also use the opportunity to air slide away and heal while in midair since you've created a lot of distance. You said as much yourself, the only way to get back over to them is to airstep, which means you've just given yourself an opportunity to cast cure or use an item. Or, you can take the opportunity to use a shotlock. Water is primarily useful early game, because its damage is more significant due to the ability to get multiple hits by sliding past them while casting, the I frames are just a small bonus that allows you to more safely get close to an enemy while casting it. Blizzard freeze also deals additional damage when breaking it. KH3's biggest problem is too many options.With flowmotion, links, attraction flow, formchanges, shotlocks, team abilities, spells, keyblade switching, air-step combo chaining, and so on, the player can both be overwhelmed and not know what their options are at the same time. It does mean that just about every player can find something they like, but it is difficult to set into a good strat.
@lovesgibson3 жыл бұрын
If KH3 is so easy then where are your videos of you whooping all of the data org bosses and Yozora???
@darkfire14083 жыл бұрын
@@lovesgibson 1. I never said it was easy, I said there were plenty of options. If you assumed that's what I meant, that says more about your opinions on KH3 combat than mine. 2. Pretty sure I haven't uploaded anything since my chain of KH AMV's I made like a decade ago in my early teens. 3. While I have beaten data org / Yozura, the observations I made don't require any level of skill in the game, so your point is invalid. 4. If KH3 isn't so easy, where are your videos of you whiffing all of the data org bosses and Yozura? See how irrelevant that question is?
@johnpantag4722 жыл бұрын
@@lovesgibson and yozora is super easy. Just learn his pattern
@johnpantag4722 жыл бұрын
Actually the problem isn't about the options. It's the randomness of team attacks attractions and the way formchanges work.
@boyishdude1234 Жыл бұрын
Just a small correction, but not being able to directly combo out of a Thunder spike with another combo attack is only true for Base Sora (I need to test Base Sora with multile combo finishers equipped to confirm) and certain Formchanges that only have one combo finisher. Formchanges that have two or three combo finishers would be able to combo out of a Thunder spike as long as it isn't the last combo finisher used, depending on the player's positioning. I've used a Fire finisher in Second Form and then followed that up with the rest of its combo finishers many times, and I don't imagine this working differently for Thunder spikes. I would say the same thing about KH2, the difference being that KH2's combat system is more convoluted, whereas KH3's combat system is more intuitive, which makes it easier to learn and understand. The most convoluted things in KH3's combat system are Attractions and Team Attacks, neither of which matter because they're added bonuses when they become available and are not things the player is meant to rely on as part of their strategy. By contrast... how is the player supposed to figure out how to use Stitch and what situations he's good for without either getting lucky or watching a speedrun? That's just bad design, and while KH3 is somewhat guilty of this issue as well, it is notable less guilty of it due to it having more intuitive mechanics, which makes it have a better designed combat system inherently.
@8man_3 жыл бұрын
What I would add to this is the options in KH2 that are "sub-optimal" are still interesting in that they can contain depth due to the way combos are strung together. I was fighting data Lexaeus recently and while in wisdom form I combo'd him with a blizzaga into the basic shots into a magnega before reflecting as he counterattacked on his way down from the magnet. I accidentally pressed my shortcut for thundaga instead of magnega while practicing and realized that the thundaga knocked him up in the air and my combo plus abilities let me magnet him in the air and then continue into reflect. I also saw that if I tried to blizzaga -> magnega -> thundaga -> reflega that since magnet serves as a combo finisher that my thundaga would count as a finishing thundaga through finishing plus and that sora's animation for a finishing thundaga takes too long to reflect afterwards. This kind of coordination between the visual feedback of the game with the intricacies of its combo system helped me figure out instantly why magnega -> thundaga -> reflega doesn't work. Even if I were a new player and had no idea that magnega acted like a combo finisher I would have still seen the longer thundaga animation and realized that route didn't work. KH2's engine is constantly interacting with the player and presents new challenges and strategies that encourage the player to learn more about its engine so that the player can manipulate the game into doing what they want. In KH3 I feel like the "optimal strategies" and the "sub-optimal" have the same amount of depth to them, and I never felt compelled to explore the intricacies of the engine, even when I just wanted to do something flashy. It's sad to me that adding a thunder into my normal data lexaeus opening combo got me to interact more with the game's mechanics than any magic combos in KH3 did. In addition, some "optimal" strategies in KH2 have really tight windows of execution that don't suit all players, which makes "sub-optimal" or more unsafe strategies the go to choice depending on how you play the game. In Bizkit047's all superbosses lv1 crit RTA with KH3 superbosses video, he mentions that after DM skip on data Xigbar, he's not comfortable doing the berserk charge strategy as he didn't have enough practice, and instead used a super cool master form strategy using rumbling rose for a triple finisher that still didn't hit RV and let him kill Xigbar without needing to learn another strat. That's why final form firaga spam to me isn't a huge flaw with KH2's design, as there are plenty of situations where the faster, safer, or flashier strats can make a player stray from the comfort of a broken combo, and the game continuously helps the player find these new strategies by putting bosses in front of them that are effectively an extension of the engine and how the boss and the player take advantage of what the game has to offer. Even though KH3 remind has some amazing superbosses, the approaches to their fights don't vary much solely because the options the player can use against them don't vary much mechanically.
@a1saucin22111 күн бұрын
Also the fact the playing like a degenerate will get you packed up in most of the boss fights. And if you do use them without dying they are far from optimal.
@schmutzonya56593 жыл бұрын
It doesn’t feel annoying to play sub optimally in KH3 either. Base combat, especially with new abilities, is infinitely more fun than firing firaga forever...
@TotallyCluelessGamer3 жыл бұрын
Not to mention Trueblade Seeker's KZbin channel proving the entire middle of this video where he complains about KH3 not allowing depth and flashiness.
@UncPhilly883 жыл бұрын
@@TotallyCluelessGamer Flashy wombo combos are NOT depth... Playing around with your food (stylin) instead of eating it and not giving it a chance to eat you (optimal efficient strategy) does not evolve the meta of your game in anyway. It detracts from it in fact cuz your tools utility and power are purposely not played to their full strength (i.e. playing like shit under the games conditions) when they are just used to juggle sandbags all day.
@Carnezz3 жыл бұрын
@@UncPhilly88 I played KH3 ReMind in critical mode with all pro codes on for each boss. Almost every boss is more insanely hard and enjoyable than even Lingering Will in KH2FM (triple nort court oh my god). Easy to notice how lackluster the gameplay and combat is in KH2 in comparison since that's all I've been playing this past week.
@TheAnimatedGamer3 жыл бұрын
@@Carnezz lingering will in KH2 is still fun and difficult to fight even without limiting yourself since the mechanics and boss design in KH2FM complement each other very well
@redhanded33 жыл бұрын
@@Carnezz so not only did we have to wait for these things to be made available to the game; you had to throw on these new modifiers to enhance your experience somehow over kh2. that's a problem
@tacticstories71592 жыл бұрын
One reason for the criticisms of KH3, is that A we are all older now and can express critique more accurate and B, Kingdom hearts's experience is now different than how it used to be.
@godawful56003 жыл бұрын
These KH Talks are some of the best Kingdom Hearts related content to ever hit this site, and I’m completely serious. You talk about things in a lighthearted, engaging and still analytical tone that is really refreshing for discussion around this series. It’s so nice to see someone who actually knows the mechanics the games intimately as well as being interested in the writing and plot. You’re also not afraid to acknowledge and even shed your biases when talking about certain things. I’m rambling at this point but I just love this shit. Keep it up BB
@elgost27743 жыл бұрын
While I love kh3s combat after the updates and I think it has aspects it does better than 2fm. There are still several things 2fm does overall better and can be improved in future entries: -Summon sytem is very underwhelming and has no synergy with Soras moveset unlike combos, forms, magic and flowmotion. Only Ralph and Stitch are fun and take skill to use and they still suffer from bad balancing. The other 3 are just push button to do damage which is boring and leads to a lack of creative usage. Summons should be more in the style of party members where they help you while youre still in full control of Sora. - Grand magic and Team attacks shouldnt be rng based. The player should be rewarded for mixing up their magic attacks not given less chance to get anything, grand magic should also have more utillity other than being aoe, some can still be that sure but others can have more unique effects that can leave the doors open for even greater synergy with your other options. Team attacks should either be available in the command menu or if you want go keep the build up thing you can have it where as you land hits a gauge fills up beneath their hp bar similliar to dream eaters and once its full you can use the limit of that party member or wait till everyones gauge is maxed to do a big combination limit. You can have thing like healing party members filling their gauge faster. - While having smooth keyblade swap with item cancel is great, having it so you have both normal fast swap for continuing combos and item cancel for resets while also having abillities that encourage keyblade swap like a short damage boost after switch would make combo potential even greater.
@ImBaeg3 жыл бұрын
One of my favorite talks thus far. Glad you do these, and I look forward to the upcoming discussion topics you have in mind
@NocOffTools3 жыл бұрын
i guess it all comes down to the situation command system. Needing to build up meter to get the CHANCE to get what you want, while in kh2 you select what you want which consumes a resource.
@boyishdude1234 Жыл бұрын
You only have a mere "chance" to get what you want if you're not committing to a specific resource. There's no RNG involved if you use pure Thunder magic to build up Thundara. Critical Mode makes it even better by allowing you to get a Formchange regardless of how you fill the meter. You want there to be less RNG involved in the situation commands that actually matter? Stop mixing and matching your spells. Commit to specific ones and either gradually build up your resource pool long-term using the Overtime Full Course Bonus, or just use those commands in the fights you get them in; your choice as to how you use your tools. KH3's combat system is more deliberate than KH2's. It requires heavier commitment to specific strategies that you want to implement and doesn't allow nearly as liberal a use of all of your options as KH2 does. In KH2 your MP is basically a non-issue because you'll always have MP for when you actually need it. In KH3 your MP is a much more valuable and scarce resource that needs to be used carefully. Etc etc etc
@Minishroom1233 жыл бұрын
One time I misclicked Chicken Little when I meant to summon Stitch against AS Vexen and it WORKED?
@aeroga23833 жыл бұрын
cause chicken little is awesome
@rayfengchoo10633 жыл бұрын
Thank you for making this KH talk regarding why you're heavily critical of KH3's overall combat design. I'm sorry if I came across as being abrasive with those comments on the previous KH talk. That being said, I still want to try again in conveying a thought of mine that I was trying to hint at with those comments. It's my fault that I didn't make my overall feelings clear enough. Maybe it will be the same this time, but I still think any potential for further debate would be well-appreciated. Out of all possible grievances, the main issue I had with the conversation surrounding KH3's many combat design decisions wasn't that it was receiving more criticism than KH2; Granted, that was one of my thoughts as well when it comes to KH3. Thankfully, you have managed to explain what it is about KH3 that stops you from enjoying it as much. I think it is fair that KH3 receives more scrutiny from fans, well-deserved scrutiny at that when so much of its underlying design feels arbitrary and poorly thought-out. I can understand why KH fans are extremely harsh on it (and the rest of Osaka Team's previous games), as they just want the series they love to improve further. No, what really gets to me, whether be it that I am viewing things unfairly or not, is this: It is unclear to me how KH fans want the combat of these games to improve. Yes, maybe it seems like I am ignoring the obvious; Fans of their favorite series definitely want them to be their best as much as possible. But, it is not just about the "Whys", but also the "Hows"; HOW do KH fans want the combat to improve? Because ever since the release of KH3 last year, I can't for the life of me describe how frustrated I get when people just describe KH3 as having "floaty combat" to convey their lack of enjoyment and calling it a day. Maybe it is my fault for not looking hard enough and just sticking to just Twitter dot com, but whenever I see discussion of KH3, it doesn't really go far enough for it to be insightful as it could be. It feels like opinions from the fanbase are fragmented and messily spread out, and the lack of in-depth KH3 design analysis out there doesn't really help so. It is why I appreciate this KH talk of yours; Because not only have you managed to consolidate most of KH3's frustrating elements quite well (bad camera, enemy design, sluggish controls, etc.), you've also managed to list out how to bring improvements to KH3's combat if possible: When you stated that Thunder's effect could be a ground bounce, that basically giving suggestions on how to improve the utility of magic. Or how you stated that Hyper Hammer's attacks could have super armor to make up for its slow speed, so it won't feel as bad to use currently. And that is what I want: *Constructive* criticism. To me, it is not enough to just state problems; I mean, you definitely want to firmly list down any possible issues, for sure. But always stating problems, yet never giving solutions doesn't really feel right to me. For example, I already know with the constant stream of criticism that KH3 has bad mob design, where enemies will snipe you off-camera. What I really want to find out, is how people want the devs to go about fixing this issue. Should they: A) Buff certain combos to be quick and snappy so that players can handle incoming waves of enemies B) Give more crowd control options to the player, like re-introducing Reflect for example C) Make enemy telegraphing better, like marking the path of enemies' attacks even if they attack off-screen or giving them more distinct audio cues D) Just straight up stop with the whole "musou" enemy waves and cut down on the number of enemies significantly Maybe fans already do this well enough, but if so, it is mostly always with 2FM as a point of reference. You mentioned that KH2 is always brought up because it is the closest point of reference for the KH series. That is fine, but solely mentioning 2FM when the time comes for discussion just comes off to me as being.....inflexible? Like, I think that stating how KH can take from other action game series like DMC or Bayonetta would be quite fine. Games can learn from each other for the sake of improvement. Perhaps I'm overthinking things, but I always keep getting the feeling that KH fans are hyper-fixated on KH2 to the point of inflexibility. For example, I've seen the complaint that KH3's floatiness is still an issue in that during some of Limit Cut Xehanort's attacks because if you're too high enough, the endlag from your Airdash means you will get hit by the last attack. That is a fair observation and critique, but what gets to me is insisting that Sora's gravity must be higher; Can't you just, give Sora's airdash less endlag or give him an option to fall to the ground faster? Why must you insist that the game shouldn't be floaty, especially when it was clearly designed and accommodated for it with how high Sora can go in levels. Maybe this was why I was spiteful towards KH2 during my comments on the previous KH talk. To be fair, it is ultimately up to the developers at Square Enix to decide how they want to go about fixing the issues that plague the games, and how they want to further expand on their games, for better or for worse. Do not take this as me saying that fans should do the jobs of the developers; That they are the ones who should come up with ideas for the games. That being said, if KH fans are going to repeatedly state their disdain towards the games, I think it's fair to ask them what specific improvements do they want. (I will apologize if you had given suggestions many times before. If you have done so, then good! Keep up the good work for this community)
@bevvvy13743 жыл бұрын
justsomeguy I get what you're saying but honestly it's not the fans job to try and offer solutions to the problems in the games. Because 1) It's not like it would do anything as the devs aren't scouring the internet for that stuff and 2) sometimes it's very hard to identify how to solve a problem they have with the game. It's hard to properly communicate your thoughts on certain subjects, especially on a site like Twitter which actively discourages lengthy explanations. And that's not even mentioning the fact that most people aren't interested in writing an essay length criticism and possible solution to a relatively minor flaw in a game.
@rayfengchoo10633 жыл бұрын
@@bevvvy1374 I understand you. I already stated how it’s not the responsibilities of fans to determine how the games turn out. I’m not asking them to constantly write walls of text about KH each and every day. Though I still think it’s fair to ask for at least more nuance when it comes to discussion and criticism of not just games, but of any media. Especially when many prolific people in the community like Bl00dy have already been dedicating their time doing so. It’s hard to take discussion of KH3 seriously when there are still a few people out that are being quite frankly, vapid when it comes criticizing game design decisions; How they regurgitate the same complaints seemingly not out concern, but out of spite for Osaka Team and shut down any attempt of retort from others. If you’re not going to say anything of substance, then you’re better off saving that energy for something else. If all of what a KH fan does is constantly insulting Osaka Team all day, wishing that Tokyo team would just replace them, then I think any perception of them being a “hardcore 2FM stan”, or any perception that “all they want for KH games is 2FM” is completely well-deserved from a bystander’s perspective. Technically, KH3 defenders can be just as abrasive at times, forgoing nuance during discussion and just start resorting to labels. I apologize if I came off like that. I just.....wish for the conversation to be the best it can.
@jR0xas3 жыл бұрын
KH3 fans comparing Final Form Firaga with base Firaga in KH3 has to be the stupidest thing ever. How is that even remotely the same? You get Final Form literally in the last world and you can't even use it on all the bosses there while you get the Fire Cufflink in the third world and the Water Cufflink in the FIRST, meaning you have the strongest magic in the beginning of the game. Also Final Form Firaga at least requires you to get an opening and being up close, while Firaga in KH3 is just homing across the entire arena. Final Form Firaga also drains Final Form insanely quickly and you can't use Final Form again after that. Comparing base Firaga of KH2 with KH3 makes much more sense but they never do that because if they did they'd realise how broken KH3's Firaga is.
@the1bigbadwolf3 жыл бұрын
There isnt consistency because they are different games for all kinds of different fans. They were trying to please old players while bringing new players in
@slylover1233 жыл бұрын
Absolutely feel you on this. Combat in kh3 is exhausting. I turned off attractions and most times I feel like I should've kept them on for crowd control ...
@TylerBR972 ай бұрын
It’s honestly baffling that Hyper Hammer doesn’t give hyper armor. The amount of times I get interrupted trying to use omega finale ugh
@corbinmarkey4663 жыл бұрын
Had the day off from work today, hadn't played any video games in a while and decided to bounce between the numbered KH games for a bit on some files I had started.... but I ended up coming back to KH2 because I was so engrossed and involved. The strategic uses of Quick Run, deciding when to go into Valor for Barbosa, choosing to keep Blizzard over Fire for its long range and just how fuckin satisfying Trinity Limit and Chicken Little are to use. I really get it now, because I honestly didn't get much of that while playing KH3. I still like it, but yeah, having played them back to back, I get what BB and others are on about. Not that I ever wasn't, I was always sympathetic to their positions, but now I get it from firsthand experience. 2FM is far and away superior.
@hahasamian80103 жыл бұрын
Hey, I started watching just recently and I really like this content! It's different from a lot of content I watch, but it's nice to hear someone going in-depth on KH game design. I have a little nitpick though, the chat is a bit hard to see, especially on mobile devices. If the footage were 1080p it'd be a little sharper, but you could also make the text just a little bigger and that would help too. In the end this is just a nitpick that doesn't effect my experience much, but I thought I'd mention it.
@wakewind41293 жыл бұрын
The obvious answer is that Kh3 is just worse than Kh2. Here’s a little more though. Any “Flaws” that apply to kh2 don’t give 3 any passes. It’s a 15 year old ps2 game. Kh3 came out last year on modern consoles. For it to be this long and Kh3 to still have so many issues is just ridiculous. Most of the devs just don’t care. So if they don’t care, why should consumers.
@Wolfy-wg5yf3 жыл бұрын
Oh wakey Bakey...
@-Anonymous-.2 жыл бұрын
Except the real reason & not some surface level answer.. is that KH3 went through development hell.
@GreenNamekian Жыл бұрын
Literally nobody says that the flaws KH2 has give KH3 a pass for the "same issues". What they do say is that KH2 fans are hypocrites with double standards for not criticizing KH2 for things they criticize KH3 for _(cough cough_ Reaction Commands being random _cough cough)._ You need to apply your criticisms and their apparent objective standards universally if you want anyone who either doesn't already agree with you or isn't biased to take anything you say seriously. Nobody wants to listen to someone who says that the rules only apply to other games, but not to a particular preferred game.
@d3parturee3 жыл бұрын
keyblade transformations were swaggy
@JohnSan923 жыл бұрын
No they weren't they all did the same thing which is damage with no real need to do anything other than spam attacks
@whatif98543 жыл бұрын
@@JohnSan92 Do you feel this way about drive forms? Because there is MUCH less variety in drive forms vs. Keyblade transformations
@whatif98543 жыл бұрын
@@JohnSan92 also, EVERYTHING in KH does damage, that's the point of a hack n slash, to kill things! I hope you're trolling lmao
@d3parturee3 жыл бұрын
@@JohnSan92 you saying you dont want damage in a hack and slash game..? and kh2 had spam as well, but that doesnt mean its not fun to spam stuff in either game
@d3parturee3 жыл бұрын
@@JohnSan92 you saying you dont want damage in a hack and slash game..? and kh2 had spam as well, but that doesnt mean its not fun to spam stuff in either game
@EinlanzerHyuga3 жыл бұрын
For one, Kingdom Hearts 2 released when there was not an oversaturation of Kingdom Hearts games. Many can argue that the content of Kingdom Hearts 2 is substantial compared to Kingdom Hearts 3 and it's mechanics more polished. And lastly (this being my personal opinion) Kingdom Hearts 3 plot concludes everything established in the games post Kingdom Hearts 2 which I think we're rubbish plots points. I'm on the school of thought that Kingdom Hearts narrative should have ended at 2. That way, Kingdom Hearts wouldn't have become a parody of itself.
@drantino3 жыл бұрын
ive always found KH2FMs setup for some stuff just so fun looking and playing. like on xemnas 1, doing reflect into slap shot into reflect on his 1 2 swing will always be swag. even if reflect didnt do that much dmg just the fact you can be that in your face well just dealing with his attacks just feels so good. KH3 does have a couple of things like ive always enjoyed how some of the summons actually worked and just keeping out for the situations that make them aplicable, like even know its simple and cheese using ariel on a enemy that takes multi hits from her, getting the right spots to do the best amount of dmg feels satisfying. it also doesnt help that with KH3 that lets say i want to use ripple drive in second form, but in alot of combos on a decent amount of enemys it transitions into a air combo and uses magnet splash, infact there was a opposite case of i wanted to magnet splash for CC but because the enemy was close enough to the ground i didnt get it and got sniped by a enemy i wanted to CC
@TronSAHeroXYZ3 жыл бұрын
All pro code on Crit lvl 1 is almost impossible, because of the flaws with cameras, and the counter system. You usually get punished harshly and can't see why when countering, and finishing combos. It totally sucks. ALWAYS GETTING FRAME TRAPPED. All they had to do was allow you to dodge or airslide out of a broken block, or immediately after the counter frames have been executed. Would fix a feeling of being cheated, which the bosses are constantly trying to force you to press X, so they can counter it. KH III is the only game where i've seen bosses counter a counter-attack. It is a pain in the arse trying to get in 3 full combo hits, just to get the enemy to flinch off a finishing move. All the boss enemies have so much Armor its rediculous. You hit Terra in his damn face with a keyblade and he just phases through it. You know shit like that. There's no stun with your attacks so Sora feels like a weak ass.
@sdrucciolinofreebootino52483 жыл бұрын
11:30 i love kh2fm for the same reasons you state here, but i gotta admit in my lvl1 run, in some instances i felt very forced to use Duck Flare/Stitch/FF Firaga/item spam etc. to progress because they were the only way out to win certain bosses/mob fights
@sammythomp48723 жыл бұрын
In conclusion KH2FM is fun and effective with almost anything you do
@stormysoup108312 күн бұрын
In KH2 nothing is broken because everything is broken if you know what you're doing
@mastervidxad58833 жыл бұрын
KH3 simply does not have good pacing and sense of progression, story wise and gameplay wise.
@tylercafe1260 Жыл бұрын
I will always laugh out loud how he sounds like he's on the verge of tears when talks about Blizzard. Compare Blizzard to KH1 & 2 and his response is actually hilariously emotional
@justacat41592 жыл бұрын
Very late to this lol but I wanna point something out about the thundaga spike, during my playthrough I had a lot of occasions where I was relying on formchanges to get through obstacles. So in the case of a spike you might not get close to do a combo but there is formchanges that allow long range combat, so there is versatility and creativity involved. The problem I would say is that kh2 had interchangeable combat, you could go from each individual tool to any other and it feels right; with kh3 a lot of times that's not the case, it has a lot of options but they feel their own individual thing instead of a part of the whole. The biggest example would be links as you can't do anything else while you're in them, in the case of the stitch magnet spam you're actively combining game mechanics to gain invincibility, it feels "earned". I hope the team sticks to this combat system and improves upon it because I think a lot of the issues in kh3 stem from it being new and quite frankly huge, there is so much stuff going on at all times, I think it's surprisingly it works as well as it does.
@tylercafe1260 Жыл бұрын
Summons are replacement party members in KH2. They function like a normal party member would just with a unique attack or two. Why doesn't Donald have Magnet? Because it'd be too strong and give the player less reason to do it themselves. But Chicken Little is the Magnet using Party member. Stitch is the Parry Support type. Genie is pure Limit Spam. Peter Pan has all of the above. It's why Summons were so fucking strong in KH2. You gain summon gauge back as you attack so it's not that you're rewarded for exploring them that's just how they're meant to be used. As much more efficient party members which just only confused the world party system even further. Like there's pretty much no reason to use any world unique member unless you want shittier options.
@GreenNamekian Жыл бұрын
I haven't tested this on Base Sora yet, but you can combo out of a Thunder spike into another combo finisher if your Formchange has more than one combo finisher (most of them have either two or three combo finishers total). For example, you could use a Thunder spike on a faraway target while in Second Form, then switch to Highwind (Wheel of Fate's first Formchange) in the middle of the combo right afterwards and use Omega Finale to teleport above the enemy and perform that last combo finisher it has. That's just one example, of course. For Formchanges in general, whether or not you can combo directly out of a Thunder spike with something else depends on how many combo finishers your forms have, what those combo finishers do and your positioning, and as for other tools, you can also Airstep (which provides tons of options by itself), Shotlock, use any Magic finisher you want, or even use Grand Magic (cancels animations early + provides s in addition to doing damage). What bl00dybizkitz said about the Thunder spike not being able to combo into anything aside from Airstep is factually inaccurate at best and an ignorant, meaningless reduction of the depth and variety presented by the game's mechanics at worst. This is why I just can't take him seriously, because he doesn't actually know anything about the Osaka Games despite claiming to be an authority on them.
@youngviews2 жыл бұрын
Man the kh2 cape he put on is real
@ivanpalomo15863 жыл бұрын
BB , forgive me, but the Xigbar Final form stuff its a speedrunning thing, no normal playe will think that, unless they have spent a huge amount o hours in that game
@bluroguevyse083 жыл бұрын
After spiking the enemy to the ground, you could use the Hammer air-to-ground attack which is strong and has some AOE.
@BattleScones3 жыл бұрын
hey man this is going to seem unrelated but do you think you could upload your blind reactions to playing the kingdom hearts 3 data org for the first time? (Remind) I never got to see you stream it and it was never clipped
@tylercafe1260 Жыл бұрын
"Why doesn't Thundaga Bounce them?" Because that's Aero does.
@hustheposum3 жыл бұрын
Saw Aruarian Dance in your suggestions. That song is fire as hell
@Ub3rSk1llz3 жыл бұрын
Yep. Final Form is straight up better than the other drive forms (EDIT: except Limit Form in certain scenarios) and I don't like that about KH2. However, at least KH2 has drive forms. Drive forms are way cooler than any of the form changes in KH3. Give me Final Forms absolute busted-ness over anything in KH3.
@HawkEyeTS3 жыл бұрын
I legitimately don't see a problem with that though, as there's an argument to be made that the drive forms are both a representation of Sora's growing experience as he progresses on his journey, and with Final Form only becoming available at the end of the game, it being the most powerful form makes sense from a power progression standpoint. If there is any problem with Final Form, it's in the randomness of obtaining it. It should have just been visibly unlocked after the Roxas cut scene in The World That Never Was, and all the bosses after it balanced assuming you have it. I'm not against there being certain systems in a game where there's just a linear progression of power as long as it's not ALL designed that way. You want to have enough variety of tools that are balanced at any point in the game to give the player choice in their approach to combat, and thankfully KH2FM does that pretty well.
@steveno48713 жыл бұрын
Ignoring BB’s overall point to attack a third party’s specific argument, wouldn’t master form be better because of magnet and thunder?
@alicevitoriano3 жыл бұрын
the comments here really show that people do not pay attention to the khtalks and/or your explanation in general... you have answered all the "actually... kh3 is deeper and u are biased" claims and people still bring those up
@mvodinh3 жыл бұрын
Facts right here. I kept telling them it’s their opinion that kh2 is better, but nope kept saying it’s golden fact. Despite many kh2 fans really can’t go back to kh2. Due to the lack of guard cancel or no airstep in kh2.
@tylercafe12604 ай бұрын
The beginning salvo of complaints legitimately don't work because everyone says KH3 Crit is insanely hard. Every single point was dismantled in a single update. It's fascinating how as time goes on this video just gets worse with age.
@Goremize2 ай бұрын
hehehe here I am someone who loves Valour form and its square attacks and auto finishers. Even using it against the games final boss. Something about the attacks are just so fun to me. Which is something they honestly forgot about in kh3. Fun.
@GloriaNeuMusa10x3 жыл бұрын
I think a huge testament to this point is that I was able to beat every superboss that allows Drive Forms, while using Wisdom Form the entire time(yes, even Xaldin). If that isn't sub-optimal, I don't know what is. But you know what? It worked, I had fun the entire time, and never felt like I was being held back or handicapping myself. Sure, I could use Final Firaga and Limit Form to shred through HP(which I also do from time to time), but it isn't necessary to feel like you are accomplishing something in a fun way. I can always try out a bunch of different ways to approach fights in KH2, which is something I love about the game. It makes it weird when I talk about KH2 superbosses vs KH3 superbosses. I enjoy KH3 superbosses more, and 3 has some amazing quality of life. But, as someone who likes using magic, my only real option is Firaga. I wanted so bad to do cool stuff with Waterga, Aeroga, or Blizzaga for example. But Blizzaga was a slower and weaker Firaga, and the other two I mentioned don't really work in an environment where you are fighting bosses. Even putting aside how situation commands discourages you from mixing and matching, Firaga is the only spell I can have fun fighting superbosses with. To the game's credit, though, I feel as though Firaga is so fun to use.
@SuperfieldCrUn3 жыл бұрын
As someone who falls more on the casual side of KH action gameplay, KH3 felt much more empty. The game feels more rigid and delayed than KH2. I was super disappointed in the magic selection - not only was Fire made into a projectile again (KH2 Fire was the best and most interesting to play with), but the new spells, Aero and Water, are just damage dealers. That's it. Sure, it's cool that Water kills submerged Shadows, but that would only be cool in KH1 where it was challenging and occasionally frustrating to deal with Shadows. Aero's Flowmotion shit just gets the way more than it helps. Instead of things with some real utility, like Magnet to bring enemies in one place or Reflect to both guard and counterattack, we just get more "spam this to kill things and then press triangle to throw out a bigger version that really kills things". In KH2, the Drive gauges were a dynamic decision tool that determined what I would attempt to be doing - should I whip out a drive form? Maybe I'll intentionally go into MP charge to increase my Drive intake. If I have Magnet, I can bring enemies closer to pelt them with Thunder to really rack up the gauges. The Drive form upgrade system encourages you to think critically about your toolset and the different levels to come up with efficient ways of growing, and the rewards for growing are tangible and exciting. Jumping into an Aerial Dodge into a Glide feels so good, and you can even Quick Run off a ledge into an Aerial Dodge into a Glide - the movement was so fluid and had real momentum. Air Slide has always felt like a downgrade after that, no matter which game it's in. And while FM added Dodge Roll, which was appreciated, I never felt like it was necessarily missing. Other games use Dodge Roll as a crutch, you're just spamming it constantly, whereas KH2 somehow made it obsolete. Just barfing out some things that feel great about KH2 that really don't in KH3.
@camharkness3 жыл бұрын
Aero actually changes the field a bit and gives you something to leap off of to be able to use flow motion attacks. Water can protect you. If something is flying at you and you don't want to guard, water acts like a less version of reflect for a second.
@menacingjefferson83043 жыл бұрын
You came up with some really cool ideas, like modifying thundaga finisher to bounce into the air. What other modifications would you make to boost the fluidity of KH3? Could you give a kh talk about it, maybe with someone else who’s had similar discussions like Bizkit047?
@NotAverageAfro2 жыл бұрын
The comabt in 3 is a regression on 2's and the story in both 2 and 3 is a regression from 1's simplicity. 3 ends up with the worst aspects.
@tylercafe1260 Жыл бұрын
These are the exact opposite. The KH2 nostalgia has blinded this fanbase
@GreenNamekian Жыл бұрын
You're legitimately an idiot if you believe that KH2 and KH3 have convoluted stories, especially KH2. KH3's combat being a regression of 2's is.. not true. They're completely different combat systems with completely different goals. They should be treated as such instead of being compared all the time.
@IAmMailman3 жыл бұрын
This may be a weird comparison, but a lot of bosses in KH2 (I stress SOME not all bosses) remind me of super Metroid in design. I mean with Draygon, you have the shine spark kill, the grapple beam, missiles and beam. There isn’t a right way to kill him, but there are some ways that are more obvious than some. Depending on the game and what the focus is, for games like this, I prefer having a toolbox of fun options than just two or three tools that always work.
@onimaxblade89883 жыл бұрын
This reminds me of when I criticize FFX for example for unbalance and then someone will go "What about this that or that in VII, V, Tactics" or whatever game And what it came down to with those games is how obvious it was. Like in Job System games you need to work your ass off for busted stuff and V and Tactics are normally pretty hard. They're like a reward for cleverness and investment. In VII you gotta be creative and find some out of the way thing or wacky materia combo. And engaging with the game in unoptimal ways feels fun. In X the stuff I criticized were like buffs and debuffs being too good, summons, Overdrives, seeing the turn order, the rock paper scissors of enemy design, instant switching characters, Quick Attack. Some pretty core things that make the game feel easy to me, and there are several of these that combine. (Like seeing Turn Order is a great idea in most games but in X I often felt I just had way too much insight into what to do esp with instant switching). There's no way not to play into that stuff besides challenge runs, these things are right in front of me. And I don't feel empowered doing it.
@geancarlosegarra31933 жыл бұрын
I could play remind forever but when it comes to base kh3 it just makes me sad
@eyoshinthemaximumАй бұрын
I play with Attractions and Links off via Procodes as basically my default, every new playthrough I turn those off first, and I seem to have much more fun than a lot of the other people here. I think this shows how unbalanced Attractions and Links are. Of course the rest of the game is also unbalanced but it’s still much more fun when I can’t just spam links and attractions to win.
@yash_kapoor3 жыл бұрын
Quick side note, somebody really needs to talk about how the presentation of the series got worse as the games went on, and I’m not even going to touch the storytelling. Watching KH1 cutscenes and watching KH3 cutscenes is like watching a young bright kid be zapped with an aging gun and stabbed in the stomach.
@Seriouspup3 жыл бұрын
Really cool that u brought up the ff xigbar combo. We have all learned or tried to learn it and it’s a pinnacle of the game in my opinion
@seantheimp Жыл бұрын
Honestly I had no issue's with KH3 like what people are describing. Attract Flow was garbage, but I had just as much fun messing with ~~all~~most of the other systems. (Personally I don't like Summons in _any_ of the games, but that's consistent for me.) If someone is complaining about how X strategy is broken, that's their problem. They're optimizing the fun right out of the game, and that's their fault.
@TrippyDuels103 жыл бұрын
You should do a KH talk about how dynamic the soundtracks throughout the games are and how that can propel Melody of Memories as a fan favorite & a new entry point to bridge Rhythm gamers into the series !!
@mrbubbles6468 Жыл бұрын
I think it’s simple. Everyone played KH2 when they were much younger.
@SomniaCE3 жыл бұрын
Honestly the answer really is just that literally everything is beyond broken on KH2. Stitch is the /most/ broken, but Sora is just constantly overpowered to the point that every option is always a good option. It has the issue of being an absurdly easy game is defo a valid one imo but at least KH2 feels fun
@odindarkll37063 жыл бұрын
In KH2, I felt completely in control in combat and every mechanic not only complements one another but overall reasonably balanced for the most part. Each niche was never unusable or wasteful. In KH3, the battle mechanics felt either underpowered and unusable later in the game or borderline broken and easy win buttons. Limits and shotlocks are so op and paces the flow of combat in an inconsistent way that all the other mechanics paled in comparison. Not to mention the most of the formchanges felt like downgrades minus the finish commands.
@stormysoup108312 күн бұрын
@@odindarkll3706each mechanic in that game feels like it was made in isolation by a different group of people, with no knowledge as to how these things will interact in the final game
@odindarkll370612 күн бұрын
@@stormysoup1083 never thought I would get a reply three years later...! I concur with your opinions and now it seems more people are catching on about the state of KH3? Five years later and I still believe the game is mid compared to KH1 and 2. I suppose that's what happens when KH3 was wasting away in development hell for as long as it has.
@thexarchives3 жыл бұрын
i feel like the problem with the point here is people had fun with kh3 too and do overlook the flaws no different than people who enjoy kh2. if anything i feel like theres a lot of subjectiveness here
@alejandrojuarez34233 жыл бұрын
Is sad the whole kh community is not consistent with the mecanics of KH II and KH III every game has flaws i know but it makes so perfect and may you ask "Are you played KH II ?" yes i played and some things is so broken for example using stich or using trinity limit + magnet to regain the drive gauge but instead KH III all the broken thing is fire spam is so sad for the community but the staff of the game have decided and for us we have to accept it and it is not bad at all
@Artjoxas3 жыл бұрын
I find this topic interesting because i feel like i fell into the same trap. I was ready to write off kh2fm as the superior game, but after earning the platinum for kh3 i find myself reviewing my thoughts. The combat is different enough i could say its like apples and oranges. So i think its more how the games felt to play that is being compared. In that regard i think the reason why criticism isnt consistent between the two games is from the initial reception for each. In 2006 kh2 felt ground breaking with its graphics and how fluid the game play was. Kh2fm was met with praise for improving that game in almost every single way by mainly adding and refining what was there. So when kh3 came out, the combat didnt feel all that new if a little dated. The story seems to leave some fans divided on whether they liked it or not. Seeing all these loose ends of the past 5 or so games quickly tied up with a bow back to back might be seen as insulting, or leave people glad that there was a happy ending to it. The lack of beloved features of the past such as critical mode and super bosses until post launch also left some disappointed. Overall i dont think these problems were horrid on their own, but left players wanting more from a game series which had been known by this point to have a satisfying amount of content. Its the initial impression of each game that has made the difference. Kh2 didn't leave me wanting more out of the game, just excited for the next installment. Kh3 felt a little too busy pitching the next game, i didn't feel like i got a full game experience out of that one. I think the super bosses should of been vanilla game and finally use the opportunity of dlc to expand the game play rather then making me feel like kh3 is a stale repeat of kh2fm. I think the criticism across the games are fair, just there are serious issues in how the development team approached kh3. I think kh2 pushed the envelope of what we want in rpgs. Kh3 rehashed it trying to play it safe. Flat out theirs too many minigames, too many harsh choke points on harder difficulties from lack of refined game progression, such as long stretches of no save points or bosses smashed back to back. Lack of item crafting and material gathering. Lack of interesting accessories that feel different or useful. Overall kh3 felt lacking, and for coming out more then a decade after the last titled sequel. I think lacking in this case translates to bad. On its own i would consider kh3 a little above average, i did have fun after all, but coming from the pedigree of excellence that came before it fell really short.
@huckmart20173 жыл бұрын
Lol the doll in toy box was super frustrating. The hardest part of the fight is keeping her in one area so she doesn't spawn more enemies.
@danieltinsleykhvsff96223 жыл бұрын
I'm gonna have to disagree with you on your opinion on blizzard in kh3. In kh3 a single cast of blizzaga is capable of freezing multiple adversaries at a time when used correctly so what do you mean when you say what's the point. It kinda felt like you shot yourself in the foot their.
@ElJosher3 жыл бұрын
I was thinking about the water magic thing yesterday. It is not as good as reflect and it doesn’t even compete against regular block and reprisal, making it basically useless as a countering magic.
@spongichu92483 жыл бұрын
I don't like how one sided these "KH Talks" feel.
@blackliquidsorrow82493 жыл бұрын
Elaborate?
@spongichu92483 жыл бұрын
@@blackliquidsorrow8249 Almost all of these KH Talks can be summarised as "here's why KH2 is better". He never takes the side of KH3 fans or Non-KH2FM fans, he never considers they're point of view, he never plays devils advocate and consider the possibility he might wrong or talk about what the sequels did better. It's always about how KH2 is better and KH3 sucks.
@Bl00dyBizkitz3 жыл бұрын
I recommend KH2FM has Flaws and Reading a Long Comment. I mean its true, I'm not completely objective, but I try to be as fair as possible in these talks. The one time where I was being unfair and made bad faith arguments was the first Talk, and I owned up to that.
@GeekyGami3 ай бұрын
There's so many small things in KH3 that are really bothersome. First and foremost, and this one doesn't have a mod fixing it: Getting hit into a wall. It completely interrupts the flow of battle, it doesn't feel nice, and it opens you up to a combo to death, for no reason. There is absolutely zero reason you couldn't just do an air recovery after being bashed into the wall. If you could do it fast enough, you could then block, which would feel really satisfying, and it wouldn't feel as needlessly arbitrary. When you're trying to airdash and it immediately clings to a wall as if you wanted to jump off the wall even though you have a bunch of flowmotion crap turned off, and then you're trying to gain back your flow to attack, but you're still in that wall sticking animation, and you're just trying to dodge again. How when you try to do the air finisher that does a magnet, Sora has a habit of just deciding that NOW is the perfect time to hit the fucking ground, whereas literally every other situation has him stuck in the air, because one enemy chose that the ground was nice. How the auto target system will lock you onto the enemy that just hit you instead of the one you want to focus on. This is especially eggregious against those floating fire things, because when this happens, usually they're doing their desperation move, which you literally cannot damage. You want to focus on another enemy, but even using the manual lock, it automatically selects that one! The movement has lost responsiveness for the sake of a more fluid animation. The automatic targetting system almost never focuses on the enemy you're looking at and moving towards. When it does, you're trying to hit the enemy to your side, and it decides to make you shoot forward towards the enemy you don't want. You can barely cancel out of any attacks. This is especially bad with things with really long, wide arcs that leave you open to damage. At least being able to cancel out of those would make them much more enjoyable. The attractions are slow, unnecessary, and they take up space that should have been situation commands. The devs arbitrarily chose which bosses you cannot airstep to, like the heartless in Rapunzel's world, which literally always keeps running away, so you have to constantly be running after it. All of these things add up, even in RE:CUT. Now, one thing I DO like is that some things that we used reaction commands for are now done seamlessly in the game. reflecting back that one nobody's projectiles. Warping to an enemy (airstep) The turnaround warp you could do on dusks before (Reprisal) Pole spinning like on the boss in Beauty & the Beast's world in KH2 (Flowmotion.) The fact that the system is no longer trying to find which of these you want to do is fantastic. The fact that they require a lot more skill to pull off, and often end up at odds with each other (especially anything flowmotion-related) is crap. The fact that you now need to know precisely where and when to place yourself, and choose the specific right moment to block that one nobody's projectiles, sucks. Way less likely to happen. Instead you're fighting against a whole bunch of enemies, can't focus on him, and you get shot, because large crowds. Using a train in the 10 000 heartless fight was stupid and boring. Despite all that, I did like KH3 enough to put it right under KH2 in terms of my favourite KH games. If all of these things were no longer issues, it would absolutely be a stand-up. This can all mostly be summed up to this: You don't feel like you're in control. Your actions are not yours, you don't get to decide.
@garrettcarter56223 жыл бұрын
2FM Fans: Finding ways to use the system in game-breaking ways is fun. Me: I have fun clearing screens with Thundaga. 2FM Ravers: Your fun is wrong and you should feel bad for finding that fun.