Why kindness to LGBT/dissenters isn’t enough

[@nevergivein4life712]

The greatest kindness one can render to any man consists of leading him from error to truth. St. Thomas Aquinas

[@MidnightIsolde]

Yes! Genuine love is truthful, not enabling of lies, deceit and things that are bad for us

[@TheTrueNicklose]

I have to admit that I used to be one of those Christians who dissented from the Church from these sorts of issues. I am glad to say that I have changed my mind on these things, much of it because of your videos, Ascension Presents, and some local parish events. All of these were charitable, but also did not give up the truth, as you mentioned being important factors.

[@phoult37]

A good argument against the alphabet movement might not "convert" a gay dude, but it may keep uncertain Catholics from leaving or doubting the Faith. I think this is especially true for young Catholics who want to fit in with their peers and seem kind/understanding/loving, etc. They need good arguments to help them defend their own beliefs.

[@Maksie0]

Wouldn't want those young people to *checks notes* be kind/understanding/loving people!

[@phoult37]

@@Maksie0 OR I don't want young people to be emotionally manipulated, which is a main neo-marxist tactic

[@MeanBeanComedy]

@@Maksie0 Fatherless comment.

[@scottgun]

Below I see the "God made me this way." argument popping up in the comments. The problem with this of course is that it proves too much. You could stick any ol' immoral thing in there. "God made me a fornicating womanizer. God made me a thief. God made Hitler a nazi." and on and on.

[@alexbernard8907]

I've heard that nonsense a lot saying that they're born homosexual etc, which isn't true as that sort of idea is saying that God made them homosexual, God doesn't make imperfections that is a result of sin, check Fr Mike Schmitz on KZbin born this way he covered it perfectly in a way I never could

[@lovelyloaa]

Ig what happened to exercising free will and intellect in which what makes us different from animals...

[@Floridiansince94]

I wonder how the group feels about the Muslim rejection of their sexual preferences . It appears to be that they are only bothered by Christians.

[@mariemunzar6474]

It could be because most of the time they are in a non-Muslim country and so aren't exposed to it as much. Their goal seems to be to convert their own society, culture, and churches / dominant christian faith / views to suit them; the rest of the world they could probably care less about as far as I know. There aren't really a lot of Muslims in America and if they are I feel most people are ignorant about them.

[@Qwerty-jy9mj]

@@mariemunzar6474 Now so the same but for the UK, the world doesn't revolve around the US.

[@mariemunzar6474]

@@Qwerty-jy9mj well I was talking about America specifically. Trent is an American I think. And the lgbt thing is huge where I live. Of course I know the UK is not America.

[@Qwerty-jy9mj]

@@mariemunzar6474 Why do you think homosexuals don't complain about muslims in the UK?

[@mariemunzar6474]

@@Qwerty-jy9mj I'm not in the UK. I can't speak for their situation there, though I've heard that there are a lot more Muslims there than here in the US.

[@nickmedley4749]

The stats definitely support this. The vast majority of people polled about why they left their faith to become “nones,” stated that they left because their questions were never answered.

[@Justas399]

Do you think that may in part be because Christians don't know the faith that well?

[@nickmedley4749]

@@Justas399 I think there’s something to be said there. My parent’s generation tended to have poor catechetical instruction and nowadays we have the sum of the world’s knowledge at our fingertips and we often don’t take the time to study the faith.

[@iattacku2773]

@@nickmedley4749 I agree imo your average modern day Christian is very biblically illiterate and doesn’t bother studying church(Catholic) traditions and history either. Thus whenever someone has slightly tough question they are stumped.

[@turdferguson3400]

What is the source of this claim? I've seen polls that say they simply disagree with the central claims of the religion instead of merely not having their questions asnwered.

[@nickmedley4749]

@@turdferguson3400 You are correct, it’s from a recent Pew survey. The disaffiliates essentially state that they don’t believe in the teachings/doctrines, or another way they put it is that they never had their questions properly answered. Essentially they weren’t intellectually satisfied it seems.

[@joet7580]

Have a friend who dates other men. He talks to me because he is a christian and takes the moral questions seriously, but no one around him is willing to say anything but an affirming word about his romantic life, and he knows that there’s something off about that fact because the lgbt scene is rife with shallow relationships and at worst horrible horrible abuse. We talk about the fundamental moral question, and we are fast friends because he knows i take him seriously. That said, the love has to come first. There are many reasons why people find themselves in these situations. Be a fellow human being first, and then you’d be surprised how many people are actually aching for a chance to talk about these things in a traditional way that the broader culture wouldn’t abide.

[@gurucarcar]

Sadly, that is our American society anymore. Turn your head in the midst of sin and say nothing. Love is love is such a big lie and way too many people are too scared or irrelevant to discuss.

[@darthbigred22]

@@gurucarcar I blame the feminization or Ned Flanders types going soft in the 90s in response to the boomer adults. I don't know how people forget dying for your sins means slaking the anger of God. The love thing ignores why Jesus dies on the cross because it's holding off the Fathers wrath.

[@junacebedo888]

Treat them as a family. Your composure will be become tender and affectionate

[@petrichor5294]

Sex has become a modern Pagan god.

[@Eh-Mungu-Nguvu-Yetu-q8p]

It always has been a pagan god/goddes

[@berserkerbard]

The problem I have is when my fellow Catholics phrase homosexual relations as ‘worse’ or ‘more sinful’ than sexual acts by heterosexual people outside of marriage I.e those using contraception, sleeping around, masturbating etc. The catechism labels all of these as disordered and the majority take part in them. Making it ‘us vs them’ is so wrong, because we can all suffer from sins of lust and, yes, they are equally disordered and sinful. We live in a very sexualised culture where sex is not a procreative act any more at all, it’s purely about pleasure and lust. A chaste homosexual and a chaste heterosexual are equals, and the opposite is true outside of marriage. I agree we should teach others and absolutely remain humble.

[@gabev5973]

Dude, KZbin keeps deleting my response... So I'll just say IMHO, while in itself all wrong is just wrong, some are more "obviously wrong" than others. And the likes of Matthew 11, 20-24 support the idea that ignoring the truth is worse the easier that truth is to believe. And man & woman being made for each other is as easy as it gets.

[@Wolfschanzeful]

I mean... we should all turn from sin. All sin seperates us from God in one way or another, but lets be honest here, there is a bit of a hierarchy. Would you equate a serial killer with a glutton who eats too much? Of course not. Likewise, when it comes to sins of the flesh, one cries out to heaven for vengeance, the other does not. That being said, I do agree in spirit that we need to take fornication more seriously in general.

[@arcadia14]

@@Wolfschanzeful nope, the only real distinction is between mortal sin and venial sin, when it comes to having sex outside marriage, whether it's heterosexual or homosexual, it's mortal and urgent repentance is needed in both cases

[@berserkerbard]

@@gabev5973 I would say a couple sleeping with each other outside of marriage for mutual fornication is just as obviously wrong as a homosexual couple sleeping together for the same reasons. Sure the best thing that can happen from the first scenario is a new life, but the worst thing is the killing of an innocent (abortion). I’d say because neither case can happen with homosexual relations, it’s equally as sinful as the first scenario when a baby is undesired.

[@gabev5973]

@@berserkerbard I still disagree. Marriage isn't a self-evident institution, neither monogamy, or even the beginning of human life. So even among fornicators it's not the same, just like even among equally unrepentant towns it's not the same.

[@johncartermusic5777]

Temper your truth with love and your judgment with mercy

[@kristoffejes7452]

Kindness is crucial, but so as apologetics!

[@catholicfemininity2126]

I remember "Be gentle as doves but wise as serpants"... there's also be charitable but not wimpy.... Many times I struggle to be both I end up being too mean and prideful... and when I try to be gentle I fail so hard when I just wanna speak my mind.

[@izabeera166]

„Tolerance is an attitude of reasoned patience toward evil … a forbearance that restrains us from showing anger or inflicting punishment. Tolerance applies only to persons … never to truth. Tolerance applies to the erring, intolerance to the error … Architects are as intolerant about sand as foundations for skyscrapers as doctors are intolerant about germs in the laboratory. Tolerance does not apply to truth or principles. About these things we must be intolerant, and for this kind of intolerance, so much needed to rouse us from sentimental gush, I make a plea. Intolerance of this kind is the foundation of all stability.”

[@ibanezdudeck]

Exactly. Why not both? You can be respectful to someone and not call them and evil this, that or the other while also laying out the logic for why they're in error.

[@vinnyv949]

I absolutely agree with doing both. I think that’s the most effective way and how God wants us to go about evangelizing. I totally reject anyone who contends we can’t use righteous indignation or polemical retorts/sermons/apologetics. As the Bible says there’s a time for all things. Sometimes it’s not necessarily the occasion for the carrot but the stick. Some of the greatest church fathers throughout history such as John Chrysostom would give fiery sermons. A fellow human beings mortal soul is on the line. It’s not loving to constantly coddle them and withhold the inconvenient/uncomfortable truth that God wants them to have to free them from Satan’s grasp.

[@Marontyne]

Appreciate your thoughts here, Trent!

[@mohamedaliouat]

That's very similar to how Aquinas arrived at his conclusions about force conversions and killing heritics.

[@humphreyobanor866]

Thank you for all you do Trent. God bless you.

[@AMDGBananaBen]

Yeah, it's a difficult balance. I have a small number of trans/LBGT friends and personally is very challenging to question their lifestyle considering a lot of them have often been abused or had bad relations with anything of faith. So taking my time to really journey with them first so that when they are in a better place, I can have that conversation. What I find also helps is affirming their masculine/feminine qualities to invite healing into those wounds and, of course, taking time to pray for them in private!

[@keith.anthony.infinity.h]

What about straight people who were abused?

[@bandidobandicoot7496]

Thank you, thank you, THANK you!!!

[@tempname4039]

Excellent video - quality stuff Trent.

[@MyMy-tv7fd]

genuine ignorance and genuine error will both stop people from seeing Christian truth. Apologetics can help them, it is not just argument alone with apologetics, argument is only part of it. Communicating with love is just good communication, how you say it is not just a Christian attribute. But overall, very well said, thank you

[@lkae4]

@@ReverendDr.Thomas Truth is reality. Now please answer me. Are you aware that evasion is slimy and spineless?

[@lkae4]

@@ReverendDr.Thomas Your turn to answer. Are you aware that evasion is slimy and spineless?

[@lkae4]

@@ReverendDr.Thomas Do you like how predicted your game plan? 😉

[@lkae4]

@@ReverendDr.Thomas Nope. You just showed everyone that you're slimy and spineless. And a slanderer. But I did just show every Christian how to get your false progressive religion busted-- just make you answer questions. Because your cult has no answers. 😉

[@lkae4]

@@ReverendDr.Thomas Slimy, spineless, slanderous, narcissistic false cult. You couldn't fix a pile of dirt, much less Western Christian Civilization. And everyone is starting to notice. Thanks for helping.

[@m.hendricks6325]

Shout out to the Cool Hand Luke reference there. I'm sure most people got it, but it was perfect none the less

[@iqgustavo]

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:16 🤝 Arguments and kindness both have roles in evangelization. 01:27 🌟 Arguments predispose people for spiritual openness. 01:40 🧡 Balance between knowledge and love is essential. 05:11 🏳️‍🌈 Advocacy for kindness but not at the expense of truth. 08:12 🚰 Passing out water bottles with an incomplete approach. 10:01 💬 Honesty and kindness needed in dialogues. 13:44 📣 Combining kindness and logical defense for conversations. 16:12 🌈 Kindness not sufficient to address theological disagreements. 18:29 📚 Properly represent Church teachings to avoid misunderstandings.

[@phi4721]

Ai

[@irodjetson]

Read one of the favorite books of Saint Pope Pius X: "The Soul of the Apostolate - J. Chautard" The book speaks about: • Pre-eminence of the Interior Life over the Active Life • Dangers of the Active Life: for you and your apostolate • The Devil’s special temptations for those working for Our Lord • Steps necessary in order to develop and grow in the Interior Life • Necessity of the Interior Life to a successful and spiritually fruitful apostolate.

[@michellepenney1099]

interestingly enough in Canada, 'centre' spelled like this refers to a building or organization. This article used the wrong spelling, it should have been 'center' meaning, in the middle of...

[@berserkerbard]

I’m from the UK and we always use ‘centre’ to refer to both meanings, never ‘center’, I believe the latter is an americanised spelling.

[@claritasyoutubechannel3312]

Well said, I have my own goals that some may find controversial, Autism Acceptance. (I don’t like the use of the term “Neurodivergence” for many reasons) I’m quite confident that I am in the right here, that it’s okay for me to love being Autistic, not as a “superpower,” and not denying that it is a disorder, albeit a benign one provided proper care is given to us growing up, but something that part of our fallen race is born with that Hans Asperger himself recognized as actually being very important to the well-being of society; I am confident that it’s okay for me to embrace who I am and seek to find a place for us in society and restored Christian Civilization in the future. But if I am wrong, if it’s wrong for me to love being Autistic, and that Autism needs to be eradicated the human race, well, sucks to be me, I’m just going to have to learn that and accept it; I can neither hide from the truth, nor have others hide the truth from me.

[@ccardall]

I agree that kindness is necessary but not the end of our interactions with friends with differing views. I like a threefold sequence: Love, Share, Invite.

[@matthewbroderick6287]

Straight Christian people who have relations outside of marriage, are also not ordained by God, and that number is countless, yet, we are called to judge no one, and to love all people! But we ourselves are called to seek obedience!

[@Wolfschanzeful]

We are not called to judge no one. We are called to judge righteously and consistently and to prepare ourselves to be judged accordingly. There is also a hierarchy when it comes to sins of the flesh...

[@jackdispennett744]

My experience is very limited--I'll say that at the outset, but with my own gay friends I've found that it doesn't end the friendship when you state what you believe. What we have to realize is that persons who identify as LGBT are a not monolithic, and they have a wide variety of opinions and outlooks on life, as well as a wide variety of responses to people who respectfully give them an opposing point of view. It's not something that's usually going to be helpful, though, unless the person already knows you personally and knows that you're not a jerk . The Catholic teaching on Theology of the Body helps because it gives objective reasons why certain acts are wrong, rather than simply proof-texting from Sacred Scripture. We also need to call out those who publicly use anti-LGBT slurs, which is a terrible practice. (CCC #2358). *Cough* Patrick Coffin *Cough* .

[@frumaatholoid]

I don't follow Coffin much. When did he use anti gay slurs?

[@jackdispennett744]

@@frumaatholoid I think back in March he tweeted a one-word reply "Gay" to denounce something. I don't know how to find it and I don't feel like going that far back through his tweets, but I saw it myself and as of the past month or two it was still there (hadn't been deleted). That word was pretty popular when I was a kid but it's definitely a slur when used in that way, and totally inappropriate for a Catholic (and I would say, any person) to use in that way. But I think we Catholics need to start calling people out for using those slurs, or else folks will have no reason to trust us when we quote the Catechism about discrimination being out-of-line against same-sex attracted folks.

[@rachelwilson2487]

Great and clear content as usual. Thank you Trent.

[@ericgatera7149]

As always. Great content.

[@jonathanbohl]

I'd like to hear more on this topic using the Socratic method.

[@justinjustinjustin10]

Love and truth, never sacrifice either. Correcting the other and standing for truth, always out of love

[@simonpaulsen6228]

Nice cool hand Luke reference

[@ucheodozor4147]

Dear Mr. Trent, I find that too many people do not like argument. They do not understand the true meaning of argumentation. They think it is simply things like fight, quarrel, disagreement, or even insubordination. But argument is simply an attempt to demonstrate the truth of what you say, or the falsity of a given point of view. It turns out that there's no other way to make sense of the world around us, or sort out our disagreements with one another, except through argumentation. Think about it, without argument, there would be no civilization, no science, no civil society, no art, no coexistence and even no life. Without argument, people would have been in caves even today, venturing out only when they need to hunt one another down for food. Argument is the only means God has given to humans for resolving differences and charting a way forward for life to struggle on.

[@JaySeamus]

In, before 'Tony 1k+', comments.

[@johnsix.51-69]

LOL tony the SDA

[@4thlegion253]

Lollll😂 he just argued with me yesterday

[@carlosvillarreal6743]

Trent, would you say that regarding catholic dissenters who are fully convinced that homosexual acts are not sinful and still want to be catholic, is it better to try to convince them to change to a non-catholic progressive church like the episcopal church?

[@Qwerty-jy9mj]

No, why lead anyone into schism?

[@carlosvillarreal6743]

@@Qwerty-jy9mj For the sake of being consistent with one's religious and moral beliefs maybe?

[@Qwerty-jy9mj]

@@carlosvillarreal6743 What people need to be consistent with is the truth

[@carlosvillarreal6743]

@@Qwerty-jy9mj I agree, but then, what do we do with so-called catholics who are clearly stubborn and firm in their conviction of not being consistent with the truth of the catholic faith and are constantly pushing the Church to change the truth to their likes, like Fr. James Martin's followers?

[@Qwerty-jy9mj]

@@carlosvillarreal6743 We need to call out heresy when it happens and pray for the heretic's conversion. Fr Martin couldn't be influential if the culture at large understood from the outset that he's attempting to subvert the faith.

[@Justas399]

Don't be so kind that you deny the truth.

[@paulajames6149]

Jesus was full of truth and grace. Truth is what will set us free. We need it. It has to be part of the equation.

[@FreshPrince0fMiami]

To them kindness is accepting, the ironic part is with that logic then they’re not kind themselves for also not accepting our belief

[@Trabunkle]

You always have to practice what you preach! God doesn't like hypocrites!

[@j.johnson2190]

I clicked this thinking Trent was going skull mask mode

[@gameologian7365]

I'd say kindness is the chaser after administering some medicine

[@marteld2108]

Trent is one of the best Apologists out there.

[@glof2553]

I have stopped referring to that movement as LGBT and started calling it homosexualism. Doing so does a few things: A) decouples it from identity and places emphasis on action (focus on sin not sinner) B) refuses to use the language of the movement C) it is archaic and makes several homosexualists upset, which I find funny

[@dragonwing2220]

whatever happened to treating people as you'd like to be treated? How'd you like atheists to come evangelize you, and mock your archaic beliefs (assuming you believe in a 4,000-6,000 year old earth, that dinosaurs lived alongside humans, and that the bread and water actually turns into Jesus' blood and body, which is pretty funny ).

[@Scortch-lo3xy]

@@dragonwing2220 "whatever happened to treating people as you'd like to be treated? " If we are doing something truly horrendously wrong that needs to stop, we like being told about it

[@dinosaursdancing]

A cis heterosexual woman is 10x more likely to ask Google if her husband is being a “homosexualism” than if he is depressed. So ya all really are shooting urselves in the foot with this one.

[@glof2553]

@@connorauman6735 the first two are good is what you're saying?

[@junacebedo888]

Islam is not bad. Muslims are not bad. It is Islamism that is bad. To be accurate Bin Laden and ISIS are islamists. I hope more people would use 'homosexualism' and 'homosexualist'

[@peli_candude554]

Something that I recently saw in the Old Testament that I think many people miss is that the Mosaic Law was applied *ONLY* to the Israelites and not to their neighbors. God wanted them to purify themselves so they can be Holy and be worthy of God's presence (presents) with the warning that if they didn't do that God would punish them by rejecting them. The neighbors were practicing all kinds of things that offended God (as were everyone else in the world at the time) including worshiping other gods, sacrificing their children (often in sexually charged rituals), eating pretty much anything (which was apparently dangerous), and creating war with the Israelites (or trying to lure them into sex or worshiping their gods).l But unless they attacked the Israelites or tried to insult their God they pretty much tried to be peaceful with them under the new laws. That is written into the Mosaic Laws and is pretty clear that God wanted them to be examples to their neighbors but not forced their beliefs on the neighbors. So when Jesus gave them the New Covenant between Him and his followers (and God and the Holy Spirit) his first and only laws were to love God and love your neighbor. If they did not follow Jesus his disciples were to shake the dust off their sandals as a warning and leave their towns behind. That doesn't say anything about stoning homosexuals or even judging them about what they do. The problems come with our tolerance levels in a secular society where certain values are being left behind and seemingly being replaced with immoral lifestyles. That is where we get into conflicts and why many people do not accept the teachings of the church today. So as some have done, incorrectly according to the Christian belief, adapting to the wants of society instead of simply insisting that the secular society maintains those values that got the society to this point. If people want to do things in the privacy of their homes that is their business as long as nobody gets hurt and children are protected against sexual abuse. That includes teaching them about homosexual lifestyles or trying to convince them that they are in the wrong body so they can transition long before they even understand who they are and what their bodies are about. That's where Christians need to stand firm along with non-Christians who want children to not be subjected to things like puberty blockers and surgery. We need to keep the secular society secular and not teach anything of belief to anyone in public schools under any circumstances. Unless they are private religious schools, of course.

[@tafazzi-on-discord]

You're drawing the line too late pal.

[@peli_candude554]

@@tafazzi-on-discord According to what or who? This is a reflection of what I think and believe, not a doctrine that I expect anyone to adhere to but if they do then good.

[@katerichards1629]

Lol, people literally always say that whole 'just convert people with your kindness' thing and trot out that fake St Francis of Assisi quote.

[@marinanguish9928]

It would be great if you did a man-on-the-street style video at a pride parade

[@Maksie0]

It really wouldn't.

[@verum-in-omnibus1035]

Excellent podcast 🙏🏼

[@shout6892]

I was converted through apologetics so yeah it does work

[@TheCounselofTrent]

Great! -Vanessa

[@thisisgin16]

Sir Horn, could you make apologetics against islam for a change? From a catholic perspective?

[@aci.]

What if a couple cannot conceive due to biologic issues (e.g. gynecologic diseases)? Is it moral to conceive by having the husband fertilize his wife's egg cell in-vitro? Both egg and sperm will be coming from the married couple who actually love each other and wish to procreate. Will that still be immoral?

[@4thlegion253]

Yes

[@siriseriez2570]

“ For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to receive this, let him receive it.” Matthew 19:12 Note: the word eunuch doesn’t solely mean someone who chops off there junk. It can refer to chastity or someone who isn’t married. So it seems that if God made you that way, it seems you have to accept it. However this is just my interpretation from my knowledge. However I know IVF isn’t acceptable in Catholicism.

[@Mish844]

@@4thlegion253 that's sad

[@4thlegion253]

@@Mish844 FACTS DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS! -Ben Shapiro

[@Mish844]

@@4thlegion253 i know, facta only care about your feelings

[@filipomikaeli6873]

The problem with homosexuals is we human-beings are individually defining what we Will as ‘good’, as opposed to what God Wills as ‘good’. As a Catholic, my church is the official earthly spokesperson for Christ on what actions are ‘good’ or ‘evil’. God would not have sent His Son to became man & die on the cross for the serious divine business of our salvation unto eternal life and leave behind ambiguity or self-interpretation on which human actions are ‘good’ or ‘evil’, yet ‘good’ and ‘evil’ are the parameters to get to eternal life.

[@kevbotech238]

Great talk Trent! It seems all our society wants is compassion compassion compassion . Could you imagine if I raised my children just on Compassion and no discipline? I call it "The Buddy Christ theology ". Jesus's teachings are so watered down that even the truth is trumped by compassion. It's all about feelings nowadays, not facts !

[@marilynmelzian7370]

Is there a singular they? It always sounds awkward to me.

[@philip7461]

A: Hey did you talk to John about the project? B: Yes. A: What did say?

[@jendoe9436]

Some languages do, but English is one of those languages that don’t. A singular “they” can be used if you are referring to someone but not sure if they are a man or woman. For example, “I got a letter from the assistant, and they mistyped the address”

[@JaySeamus]

@@philip7461 John...is 2 persons? Is saying "They ate hotdogs for lunch" when referring to 1 singular John , even appropriate?

[@philip7461]

@@JaySeamus it is appropriate, but not typical usage. As Jen said earlier, it is typically used when a person's gender isn't known (i.e. - Pat could be he or she since the name could refer to Patrick or Patricia). As Trent Horn said in his video, it still fits to use singular "they" if gender is known but using the correct pronoun would hinder the message.

[@JaySeamus]

@@philip7461 thanks for explaining

[@kadeshswanson3991]

Have you looked into Fred Tarsitano? He does alot of anti Catholic videos.

[@papadan3]

you are so right!!!

[@alexvault9729]

This is a little bit off topic, but I didn't get the part with singular 'they'. According to Merriam-Webster, the traditional singular 'they' is used to refer to a person whose gender isn’t known or isn’t important in the context. You knew the sex of the article's author, so if you had used 'they' (I don't think you did after all), it wouldn't have been singular 'they'. Or were you explaining your approach to pronouns in general? So, let's say a trans person wants be called 'she/her', but you're not sure of that person's sex therefore you call that person (singular) 'they' - is that what you meant?

[@macmedic892]

LGBT = Let’s Go Brandon Team

[@chacehui6393]

Large gorilla banana time

[@lupinsredjacket3191]

Lions Greet Bears Truthfully.

[@michaelhaywood8262]

Lettuce, Grilled Bacon and Tomatoes.

[@canibezeroun1988]

I've changed my opinion on being kind to unbelievers to win them over once I accepted that the Church will be known for its love among it's members, not its love towards others.

[@pearl1606]

It is a culture war. If we all agree on that, and stop the phoney rhetoric, then we agree, at least, to differ.

[@stevefranks1957]

Yes Trent, very, very helpful 🙏

[@rafaeldeabreu5515]

Apologize for my beliefs that are according to Church’s teachings? Never gonna happen.

[@aloyalcatholic5785]

Hello from "up (here) in Canada".

[@papadan3]

very helpful

[@patriciagrande311]

The Holy Spirit gives one the gift of Faith. We must willingly accept His gift.

[@papadan3]

sad that truth offends others and saying truth offends catholics..

[@papadan3]

those that do that are nuts..

[@gurucarcar]

singular they??? that makes no sense.

[@ncgerstell]

What? They absolutely can be used in a singular or plural sense depending on context.

[@HolyKhaaaaan]

In English, long before the LGBT movement, "they" was used to designate the third person singular of neutral or unknown gender. This gender exists in some languages like Dutch - "hij" is third-person male, "zij" is third-person female, and "het" is third-person neutral. "It" is the world used of objects in English, but it is impersonal. So if the gender of a person is in dispute or unknown - or if we are at an impasse with that person over what sex they are - the next best words to use to speak of them are their own names or "they".

[@richardcraig599]

They[that individual] said there is no god. There’s an example of singular they

[@gurucarcar]

@@richardcraig599 they is a group. when the word became a noun for an individual is unknown to me.

[@tyrannosaurusimperator]

@Greg Elchert no, in English, unknown sex is to be referred to by the singular masculine

[@scottgun]

It can be quite disheartening because the Sexual Revolution is so triumphant that it can hardly be called a revolution and our situation is better described as the holdouts in a dystopian Erottoman empire. It's so bad that not only does the light of faith fail to penetrate; but neither does the light of reason. We see it here in pushback comments like "Born this way/God made me this way." and more recently with "emotional experiences" and "You're trying to erase us!" All of these of course are invalid because they prove too much, and it becomes clear that we are dealing with a false religion that has no basis for its doctrines that aren't arbitrary, subjective to a meaningless degree, or simply stolen Christian doctrines with the serial numbers hastily filed off and chopped beyond recognition. But don't be afraid. We have the promises of Jesus Christ and our marching orders haven't changed a whit: practice the corporeal and spiritual works of mercy. What can men do against such reckless intellectual suicide?

[@Mish844]

your victim complex and siege mentality are treatable.

[@scottgun]

@@Mish844 Who knew a victim complex and siege mentality could be such a hoot? Please don't worry about me because this is how I stumble through life: kzbin.info/www/bejne/onTbdqR-bNqSn68 Have a great day and a merry Christmas!

[@AnimaChristisalvame]

What the Church teaches is not popular in the world...and that's a good sign that these teachings come from God.

[@Maksie0]

No it's not?

[@Benjaminy2k]

I think it might help to say, loudly, and often, that we aren't singling out gay people to pick on them. My passions and appetites are also disordered.

Wasn't Paul secretly working for the Flavian Dynasty? Weren't all of the original Roman Catholic Saints' members of the Flavian Dynasty? Weren't all of the original symbols used by the earliest Christians identical to those of the Flavian Dynasty? And wasn't the earliest iconographic image of Jesus The Christ, in a catacomb, under the city of Rome, which was owned by a Flavian Princess? Weren't all of the original Jesus cult texts produced under the oversight of the Flavian Dynasty? Didn't the Flavian Dynasty posses the only remaining copy of the Hebrew Tanakh other than the Greek Septuagint translation? Isn't there Flavian typology in the Gospels? Weren't the canonical texts all back dated like the historical fiction of Gone With The Wind? Wasn't Emperor Vespasian known as the Jewish Messiah? Wasn’t Pope Clement of Rome a Flavian? Wasn't Josephus a temple whore for the Flavian Dynasty? Weren't the Flavian’s, as well as Paul, descended from King Herod? There was no separation of Church and State in the Roman Empire. And Christianity is clearly a Greco-Roman hybrid form of Judaism created by the Flavian Dynasty. As an attempt to adapt, pacify, and integrate the rebellious and defiant Jews into the rest of the Greco-Roman Empire. Then finally Neo-Flavian Constantine chose the Flavian family religion to be the official religion of the entire Roman Empire. In order to consolidate power in his fractured Empire. And then Eusebius edited and rewrote the history of the previous 3OO years. It isn't history it is all simply Greco-Roman mythopoetic literature. Today it is known as Historical Fiction. “What profit hath not this fable of Christ brought us.” Pope Leo X 💙

[@immaculata_marian]

John 15:18 "If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you"

[@gabev5973]

Kindness is cringe. If it weren't because, logically, it makes absolute sense to be catholic, I most likely wouldn't be. Even animals have a temperament, but we, humans, are creatures of reason.

[@papadan3]

hahaha hahaha hahaha what a mess oh well the world has been in a mess from the beginning of the fall from grace

[@Justas399]

The Scriptures command apologetics. "5 destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ, 2Corinthians 10 15 but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence; I Peter 3:15 The problem that catholics have is with their leaders who accept homosexuality.

[@glof2553]

Pray for our homosexualist leaders, that they may stop practicing homosexualism and start practicing Catholicism

[@Justas399]

@@glof2553 pray but also refute when you can.

[@Qwerty-jy9mj]

This is an interesting conundrum, in that it shows there's a level of anti fragility inherent in Catholicism that's impossible to match by protestants. You _are right_ in that members of the clergy and the hierarchy at large that approve of homosexual behavior are a problem and yet, the point is that we can know they're incorrect. We follow orthodoxy, not this or that priest on account of their preferences. Can the same be said of the hierarchical structure of a protestant sect? When the televangelist goes down the whole sect goes with him

[@Justas399]

@@Qwerty-jy9mj Large percentages of your priests and bishops are homosexuals who have done nothing to condemn homosexuality but have covered it up for years. Billions of your money has been used to pay the victims. Over 50% of catholics support homosexual "marriage".

[@Qwerty-jy9mj]

@@Justas399 What does that have to do with the indefectibility of the Church?

[@zz-bq1yw]

Modern Christians have a lot of problems. First of all, there aren't any of them out there. I haven't met a Christian or anybody who claims to be Christian in a decade. I have studied philosophy and theology and returned to belief in Christ and the Bible, but cannot consider myself a Christian because I don't attend a Church anymore. In the past I was taken to various protestant churches with my family and never made a single friend, there were cliques and being accepted into the group of believers was impossible. I would love to attend a Church, but nobody talks about their faith or invites people to their Church. The only time that you see Christians is when they are protesting or counter-protesting something. They gather together as a tribe to judge, argue, and disagree with anybody not already in their own Church. None of these people are there to truly convert people or bring anybody into their midst. They are there to virtue signal, feel a sense of self-righteousness, feel superior to others, and then to go home afterwards to pat themselves and eachother on the back. For now I will continue to read the scriptures, the church fathers, to fast, and to pray that one day a true evangelist will invite me honestly to become a friend and join their Church. I am not talking about a little card printed by the thousands like the JWs do, that is not genuine and they do it because they are obligated to.

[@Justas399]

You don't need to be invited to church. Christians are to be involved in the church as Christ and His apostles taught. Hangout here and you will find a number of people who do talk about their faith.

[@papadan3]

so tell me this man who claims female is demanding and threatening me as a christian i have to affirm his falsehood in order to be kind hahaha hahaha

[@michaelanderson4849]

Lets face it. You may have the intention to use apologetics for evangelisation. But in reality the main audience are already members of your own church who needs to be convinced to stay.

[@davidmartell3475]

Ff

[@erinsymone1645]

Honestly your pronoun policy is the fastest way to lose trans people and also shows profound disrespect and inability to actually listen to other perspectives all in the name of doggedly proclaiming "truth." There is a great book out there called "I'm not sick, I don't need help" and it talks about how asserting the "correct" view to someone who for whatever reason lacks insight into reality almost always fails. That person will never feel heard around you and you will never be able to build a trusting relationship with them. The author also mentions that contrary to popular belief, simply hearing out their beliefs even if "delusional" will actually NOT further reaffirm so called "bad" thinking, and you don't have to "agree" with them to practice this. This is coming from a non catholic who also disagrees with some of the transgender ideology (not for the same reasons as catholics do). Bottom line it's pretty disrespectful in general to call someone something they don't want to be called. Maybe we should all decide for you, to call you something else, maybe Trevor? And see how it goes.

[@riverofthewood]

At least using "they" is a reasonably polite way to refer to people you don't agree with. It says that you at least acknowledge the person's gender incongruity, and you are trying not to be deliberately rude. "They" is how we have always referred to those whose gender we do not know. But apparently you insist on being rude. Many humans consider themselves to be a gender other than "man" or "woman". Just use "they" whenever you're not sure what to call someone. Don't be a dick.

[@crobeastness]

'They' is never singular.

[@Maksie0]

Sure it is. The singular they has been used in the English language for centuries.

[@crobeastness]

@@Maksie0 in university they corrected my they to his/her. they is never singular.

[@Maksie0]

@@crobeastness en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they

[@crobeastness]

@@Maksie0 why did my professors correct me then? Note: i just graduated last year.

[@Maksie0]

@@crobeastness I guess your professors were just wrong

[@tommore3263]

There is no such thing as a "homosexual" an invented term from a German writer in the 19th century. Or a heterosexual for that matter. Homosexual behavior is highly associated with having been sexually and otherwise abused. We have an obligation to help and protect children in particular from behaviors like sodomy that have resulted in the deaths of over a million young men in the west. Human sexuality is frankly just obvious. We do everyone a favor by affirming simple reality. And for those who keep hearing the "born that way" dogma , large cohort identical twin studies have shown that this dogma is utterly false.

[@lioRojoDePedro]

Moreover, I find it strange that some people feel identified as LGBTQIA. What a quirky idea! We don't feel identified; we ARE LGBTQIA! As I've got 5 fingers on my hand. Geez! Why are we like this? Cause The Lord made us this way. Why do you read 📚 otherwise in The Holy Bible: cause you're misreading The Text, I think.

[@tawchaentertainment1488]

What do you mean the lord made us this way?

[@lioRojoDePedro]

@@tawchaentertainment1488 / Since I NEVER chose this path, nor many queer people, I've come to the conclusion that it must have been The Lord Who chose!

[@tawchaentertainment1488]

@@lioRojoDePedro Just how you were grown its not ur fault or much of the Lord's bc we all have free will and many seemingly pleasurable things are always the hardest to give up. God is understanding above everything else but it still up to us to choose who were going to serve at the end of the day, no one is perfect only Jesus was and he said come as you are , its more about your good works but falling into sin can often snowball your life further, and I think that's why he warned us against homosexual relationships, its the consequences of it and how it can get corrupted being devoid of the love he really meant for us.

[@lioRojoDePedro]

@@tawchaentertainment1488 / Many thanks for your viewpoint

[@vanessajazp6341]

As a former Christian who looks at my former belief in Jesus in the same light as my former belief in Santa Claus, let me offer a kernel of advice on dealing with non-believers (many of whom like me are former believers). The biggest “weapon” in your arsenal is humility. Be kind and tolerant, even when you disagree. We former believers have had our fill of the “warriors for God” who feel like it's them against the world, and the world needs to submit to their way of believing; who feel emboldened by the certainty of their faith to try and control how others live or what they do with their own bodies. We atheists have out share of belligerent extremists, and you see what a turn-off they are with their bellicose rhetoric. It’s no different the other way around. Kindness opens doors. Indignation and arrogance closes them.

[@Qwerty-jy9mj]

Being a former atheist who looks at his former belief in naturalism in the same light as his former belief in brute facts, I think there's a fundamental difference from offering kindness in the spirit of humility and acquiescing to passive aggressive demands of keeling over for the sake of preserving a useless husk of presentability that serves no one.

[@vanessajazp6341]

@@Qwerty-jy9mj I’m not trying to argue belief in ancient mythology versus understanding science and reason. Those are diametrically opposed worldviews. I’m saying that the bridge between them is kindness and humility, not arrogance or paternalism. “Naturalism” is not a discipline, it is a subjective concept.

[@Qwerty-jy9mj]

@@vanessajazp6341 I'm not trying to argue anything, I just dislike insincere people.

[@vanessajazp6341]

@@Qwerty-jy9mj Calling someone insincere requires making a judgment. About someone you never met, yes?

[@Qwerty-jy9mj]

@@vanessajazp6341 That doesn't follow

[@thomassullivan2757]

There is no singular they. Learn grammar.

[@Maksie0]

The singular they has been used in the English language for centuries.

[@Mish844]

Consider taking your own advice. Singular "they" is a pretty old, though archaic custom.

[@CheddarBayBaby]

I can’t get past the first minute of this one. 🤦🏻‍♂️. Is your brain so entirely poisoned by logic that the ‘irony’ of someone making an argument about making arguments is actually meaningful? There’s nothing ironic about that.

[@claritasyoutubechannel3312]

What are you saying? What is your position?

[@CheddarBayBaby]

@@claritasyoutubechannel3312 my position is that if someone tells you they don’t think apologetics work, listen to them instead of saying ‘you’re making an argument so arguments must work’. It’s not some clever gotcha, it’s not ironic, its childish.

[@claritasyoutubechannel3312]

@@CheddarBayBaby Trent Horn wasn’t rebutting the article itself, he was using the article to explain something to other Catholic apologists.

[@CheddarBayBaby]

@@claritasyoutubechannel3312 I wouldn’t know, I only listened to the first minute, just like my comment said