Why Luigi is PAINFULLY AVERAGE in Melee, and how he changed in Project M

[@lazarbro]

I dig the style and content but I don't think Lugi is painfully average. He's really the opposite, Blissfully average. He's easily the most fun and unique mid tier.

[@Spazkle]

Agreed

[@lava64_]

I'm 10 months late but I do agree that he is a fun mid tier character

[@harvken9332]

​@@lava64_I'm a year late and I don't have smash

[@affrun11]

But Samus and Yoshi....

[@clayjack9969]

@@affrun11but that Luigi wave dash.

[@kinghext9357]

In favor of Zelda she is the only character with a move that turns her into a top tier that's gotta be worth something

[@alexv0714]

I think it's absolutely insane that they somehow ranked Zelda at 6 (personally I think she's the worst char in Melee, Sheik aside) and Falcon at 15.5 lmao like you can't even compare them. Like overall I'm pretty impressed, they got the top 4 pretty accurate give or take Puff, bottom 6 is perfect (not in order, not counting Zelda), but certain oddballs in there like the Zelda/Falcon thing are just like... cursed as hell

[@666blaziken]

One mechanic that is seen every now and then is the brawl mechanic where if you drop through a platform while you have momentum, the momentum gets conserved, so if Luigi wave dashes and then drops through a platform he will kind of fly over to the other platform area. It gives him an approach option and a way to escape pressure while on the platform as well.

[@GoMaDssb]

Imagine nerfing poor Luigi, what were P+ devs thinking...

[@zachstarattack7320]

its so dumb

[@swiftblade9322]

No sweetspot UP B or charged Down B mentions? Charged Down B can help quite a lot with recovery, and the sweetspot on his UP B can pack quite a punch for some added KO power. (Referring to the melee bit)

[@h3ck774]

Indeed also up B is an insane punish out shield for most dash attacks

[@nosferatunoir2740]

Great video! As someone who likes to play Luigi from time to time in PM ever since it came out, I didn't know all the changes the devs made to him that buffed and nerfed him in P+, but I could definitely tell the recovery was waaay worse when playing him in Melee.

[@Swappington]

I love this style of content, Reminds me of AsumSaus, keep up the great work 👍

[@ZachHonest]

He is definitely the GOAT smash content wise, 100% influenced by him.

[@goop2345]

Keep up the great content dude! :) I feel like your writing has gotten even better these past few vids, they're a nice balance between concise and informative

[@JohnSmith-se7pp]

Yee man I agree he be cool

[@TwentySixth_]

0:04 pov: you're playing games at 2:47am and your mom hears you

[@freddiesimmons1394]

8:20 One of the harder things abour being on the PM team is that they *really* had a narrow idea of what "a lot" of damage was. I got Ganons down B changed to do more damage, and it wasnt okayed until i said it was this number to specifically go through mario fireballs. Not that ganon is kinda bad and should do a lot to make up for it, nooooo

[@ianalvarez7156]

I find that the hardest things for Luigi are his approach options and aerial mobility. He’s so slow in the air and can’t drift so you get sharked for free and hope to trade most of the time. The approaches can be good with wavedash when you mix it up but having the un actionable part in the beginning can be more of a risk. Also his traction backfires as you often end up offstage when you get hit and slide off to the ledge or just die.

[@Cerialos]

found u the other day reminded me of asumsaus and i fucking love his content and now i’m binging all of urs

[@miro5052]

You put so much effort into your videos, it's a real shame Project M/Plus doesn't have a wide audience. I hope with the rise of netplay matchmaking people will gain interest.

[@JohnSmith-se7pp]

Nice video bro you're making getting back into project plus even more fun

[@tubbyidk1474]

Pretty sure tornado could be used as a recovery in melee. Just in melee, you had to “charge” it by using it on the ground. I think ssbm tutorials had a vid on that.

[@ZachHonest]

I had a part on that in the original script for the video, but I cut it out last minute.

[@tubbyidk1474]

@@ZachHonestwhy did you cut it, it was really helpful to luigis recovery.

[@ZachHonest]

@@tubbyidk1474 the way i explained it was kinda shitty tbh, and just sounded like excess info and since I talk about it later for PM, so i cut the fat in a sense.

[@tubbyidk1474]

@@ZachHonest ah ok

[@dopekingcoco]

Does anyone know the song name that started playin at 7:01

[@gingervald8601]

While i don't disagree with your overall conclusions I don't think you did a very good job of arguing for them. The video doesn't showcase a good understanding of the character. You mentioned his lack of range and him being slow, but you cited his grab range (which is average, fox falco, falcon and peach all have comparable grab sizes) and his ground speed outside of wavedash being bad. These don't really make a good case. Luigi's f-tilt is a long reaching and pretty quick move and feels even longer with his wavedash. He's also able to put out no shortage of big grounded hitboxes with his ability to do sliding smash attacks. His Aerials also aren't particularly short, they're same size if not bigger than high tiers like Fox and Peach. The issue with Luigi is that he has THE WORST AIR DRIFT IN MELEE, which keeps him from using his powerful aerials for diagonal approaches. His other big issue is that he doesn't have a good way to deal with crouch cancel. Shiek mains complain about this as well but Shiek can compensate with needles and disjoint. Your coverage about his changes in PM overlooked nearly all the the truly important Buffs that he got. You made a good point on his Melee fireball being bad, yet didn't mention that his PM fireball is fast enough to waveland out of, does more damage (from 6% to 8%), and has GREATLY increased hitbox size and travel distance? No mention that Luigi in PM retains his wavedash speed when he drops through platforms, giving him a much needed diagonal approach on every stage but FD? You also didn't mention being able to rise off the ground when using his down-B, or his up-air knockback angle changes that expand his combo game. These are all much more meaningful buffs to the character than grabs keeping wavedash momentum (imo that ones not even a buff) or his still extremely situational taunt now being a spike. Your coverage of his recovery buffs was also extremely lacking. You go misfire storing, but the reduced endlag on his side-B is a much more impactful buff. You could always use his Down-B to recover in melee, PM made it easier but the distance is covers wasn't improved much. You mentioned the (slight) increase to his UP-B, but it was never weak because of short distance in Melee, it was weak because afterwards Luigi has 0 air drift making it the easiest move to just hold ledge of Marth killer. PM changed this so Luigi can mix up his Up-B timings and also mix up going to Ledge or stage (and also lets him UP-B from farther away and still reach stage). Especially given how bad up-b was before this is a huge buff. Anyways, hope you take the feedback well and best of luck with your future videos!

[@zachstarattack7320]

excellent breakdown

[@Super_star_remix]

Luigi in the right hands can be pretty OP

[@CrayolaSniffer8008135]

Yo honest content i love your videos, what is the music that plays at 6:53

[@zachstarattack7320]

In my personal opinion, I think Luigi already has enough of a weakness with low airspeed. He should have an extremely good recovery project plus

[@sylvanadvocate1858]

Can't wait for the Young Link/Toon Link episode :)

[@ZachHonest]

Would you like a video talking about how Young Link changed from Melee to Ultimate, or Melee YL to PM Toon Link?

[@sylvanadvocate1858]

@@ZachHonest either would be fine. I'm under the opinion that yink is not actually that bad in melee, just missing a few tools

[@jalilfrancois7700]

@@ZachHonest maybe you should do Roy

[@jalilfrancois7700]

Too bad Roy isn’t our boy in this game :(

[@ParadoxAK]

Hey, that's me! 9:40

[@derrickdavis3888]

Don't forget in Ultimate they Nerf his mix-ups attacks since the beginning of Smash Ultimate.

[@AspectCave]

i really think that luigi in p+ is just underated keep up the content!!!

[@javianmonserrate8930]

The Nair guy Mario: Thats my brothef

[@stopanimatecreep3400]

Can you please make a video of Shin Godzilla in Project M Legacy XP?

[@omarmendez0402]

Project + should give Luigi his poltergust vacuum

[@lyrabelacqua4120]

I was expecting Marth in the intro smh

[@F0restz]

0:28 wouldn't puff also be tied for the "OG CLONE CHARACTER"?

[@_caso_]

Music at the very start of the video?

[@uny3231]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/nnPdl6Opet6km7c (wii shop channel remix - nicky flowers) this music is ussed on the css of pm.

[@kratos223]

"luigi is sorta floaty" wat

[@evanwilliams6406]

I just kind of soured on Luigi after Smash 64. Especially when new characters came on the scene that outclass him. I never really liked the changes they made to him and landing that Super Jump Punch dead on was hard. Then I never liked his side B, they kind of messed that up.

[@CAMOGOD]

They gutted my boy in P+ 😭

[@nick-cepticon782]

De Blob music ftw

[@javianmonserrate8930]

Technacially luigi has a good and bad recovery B side is you apple to full charge goes far, high knockback plus far range also its kinda fun to spam to a beginner I smash melee but it's slow and laggy, his super jump punch (B up) goes decent in vertically but poor diagonally but it's powerful in the sweetspot but weak at the sour spot, his tornado is a recovery (watch pulp luigi vs fox smash melee) it dosent good fair but it's fast and it's a back up tool His recovery is decent and Green missle (Misfire aka a 15 percent chance to be stronger and goes farther adding his recovery) goes by one of the farthest diagonally recovery in the game plus he does struggle to wall jump but he can still do a wall jump.

[@javianmonserrate8930]

When you say Up dosent go that high but it goes back to stage by a decent margin 4:01

[@javiersaenz1040]

What is your opinion on the new 0.95 Project M Remix update?

[@ZachHonest]

Will be streaming that game this weekend on Saturday night, also will be doing a Waluigi video on PMEX.

[@cosplayeranime]

song name at the beginning?

[@nosepdlihcnam.cmdlihc3915]

Dude Luigi down be is also a recovery in melee it just has to be charged on the ground

[@isaiahhenio4556]

Because Luigi Is Mario's Brother

[@Testify087]

Whats Luigis placement now?

[@melgibsonero]

B-but Luigi is very unique in Melee. He has ton of things that only he has

[@twotamatos]

Honestly man I was debating which joke character I wanted to play G&W or Luigi in melee the thing is he has nothing broken in his move kit not OP broken but I mean like G&W ness recovery mewtwo confusion broken I think when u can get wavedash movement down I feel like the taunt kill and misfire & Up B sweet spot actually make him more of a fun RNG character then G&W & he is leagues more viable so I am picking maining him over G&W in melee I used to love playing him in brawl idk what happened in sm4sh & ult but all the quirky fun stuff about him just isn’t there I didn’t mind him in sm4sh but man he’s obnoxious and boring in ult melee & brawl had my fave incarnations of em

[@KyokujiFGC]

Why would you nerf a mid-tier character so hard

[@justinblock1782]

His down special can also recover in melee

[@numeral382]

greta video but I reccomened putting video of pro players clips to better demonstrate how that tech can be used in a tournament environment

[@kingk.o1862]

Luigi's S tier in my book

[@TheTipchris]

This is the correct answer. The problem with those that created Project +, they don't want him to use his full power. Cowards!

[@jagusr9706]

7:52 also It has more horizontal air drift and a bigger grab box.

[@plusah1268]

lol i remember back in the day when I was a kid and me and my cousins would play project m on his wii down smash jab was an infinite in turbo mode I think. I literally mained luigi just for his turbo mode bullshit lol

[@ElvargsBane]

Luigi like Mario suffers a tiny bit in the button mashing required for their Down-B's to be useful recovery options. Sure I can play without and it really isn't impossible to do if I work on it. But why beat my controller up to do one tech when there is so many other characters out there. Make the Tornado/Cyclone easy or remove it's utility, techs that damage my controller aren't good design.

[@averageplayer1928]

*a g&w main (me) cries*

[@TheTrixster690]

How is Luigi painfully average ? He's high tier.

[@Wabbit_Guy]

Isn't he Mid-Tier though?

[@jalilfrancois7700]

He has a horrible dash attack,a not good forward tilt and not the best side b

[@gnardawgyt]

Lower end of high tier, higher end of mid tier, however you want to look at it

[@abrahambarkhordar5572]

Nah Luigi mid

[@elshaddollworld3941]

you smoking lmao

[@Brick10787]

His up b does NOT go higher! edit from almost a year later: this is kind of a stupid comment lol

[@HibaHibana]

i love luigi💚

[@SoloGamer42]

I recently picked up a copy of brawl And playing luigi in this game is amazing. He is absolutely ridiculous, His combos are slow, And his running Side b Is ridiculously lame. And he's my most played character already. With over ninety matches played Against the cpu on intense difficulty.😅 I've also been using him exclusively against some of my Tournament level friends 😂

[@EndofanEratheband]

1:08 Weird*

[@jalilfrancois7700]

Am I the only one that sees the world weird wrong if it was supposed to be called that cool

[@MUGEN64]

good vidya

[@borkbork9541]

Yes, very weird... One could even say... Wack

[@dolphinmelee]

you spelled weird wrong

[@TiaturbinadescuidosHD4K]

I like ur voice

[@alfredusmagnus]

what do you mean? Luigi has great range in melee. def more than average

[@sbsb7352]

his grab range definitely is subpar, i main all the mario brothers, so i would know

[@alfredusmagnus]

@@sbsb7352 His grab range isn´t that bad and the range on the other attacks are very good

[@kwaku7226]

@@alfredusmagnusIt’s the truth bro

[@alfredusmagnus]

@@BrosickleWasTaken what do you mean by not covering as much space? Luigi has the highest threat range in the game

[@abridge2]

@@alfredusmagnus on the ground, yeah, but his airspeed is absolutely fucking awful

[@KenanVonKaiser]

L!