Why Morrowind Had The Best Mages Guild - Elder Scrolls Analysis

[@Infected_Apple]

Morrowind was the most immersive of the series, which is a shame because I'd love to have the politics, detail and atmosphere in a modern game.

[@vergatusuave8854]

Skywind

[@SuphaNinja]

Boy do I have news for you, look up Skywind

[@Infected_Apple]

@@SuphaNinja I'm aware, and hoping one day it'll fulfill the prophesy.

[@leaflizard8485]

If Elder Scrolls takes place in High Rock, that political intrigue may return

[@Infected_Apple]

@@leaflizard8485 it would be nice but I doubt they would go for rival guilds with mutually excluding membership or anything like that. I mean the civil war in Skyrim is the only example and should've been ample opportunity for some depth but it seems the current design philosophy just doesn't allow for it.

[@Jaeger_Bishop]

To be fair. In Oblivion you had to go around to every mages guild hall to get a recommendation, entrance into the Mage's guild felt earned. So it makes more sense that the Mages guild in Oblivion would give you more difficult tasks early on as you had to prove yourself worthy of every guild hall sending their approval.

[@AvartiPlaysGames]

Good point!

[@dr.fumetastic]

Not to mention, a decent amount of the recommendation quests are portrayed as unorthodox lessons, while your first few assignments (Mage's Staff, helping with the Vahtacen excavation) are in theory quite simple. I'd wager the only reason you're even being used during Ulterior Motives is because you managed to deal with the necromancers during Mage's Staff by yourself.

[@Ch35h1r3C47]

@@dr.fumetastic Good points. Mages guild in Oblivion was pretty good in my opinion, it's like you start on a mundane ordinary path but then prove yourself useful during an unexpected catastrophe, so they use you and you gain their trust. Plenty of more normal chores mixed in as well.

[@GECKman88]

Then there's skyrim "CaN yOu CaSt 'X' sPeLl!?!?"

[@justclauz8746]

The only problem was that there was always an excuse for YOU the player, to take on difficult tasks. It didnt seem you did things together as a guild, but rather you did everything for them. It just felt scripted.

[@95Bartlett]

I really wish Bethesda played on the native faction vs imperial counterpart in Skyrim like they did with Morrowind, it would fit right in with the whole civil war dynamic. Stormcloaks vs legion, synod vs college of Winterhold, fighters guild vs companions etc. I thought it was also lazy of Bethesda to not include guild halls in more of the major cities, the imperial aligned guilds could have a greater presence in the western holds and the native Skyrim guild could have more presence in the eastern holds

[@Janx14]

yeah, it seems they just put less effort into guilds each game. Morrowind had tons of factions and they were mostly flexible and had multiple halls. Oblivion cut down the number of guilds but mostly kept the number of halls, and then skyrim reduced them all to one guild hall. I fear ES6 will just have all the factions in one building.

[@95Bartlett]

@@Janx14 yeah exactly, take the companions for instance, they've been a guild in Skyrim since the Nords came from Atmora and they've only managed to establish themselves in Whiterun after 4,000 years. Did any of the harbingers think to maybe open up another guildhall in a different city? The one loading screen that states why the fighters guild isn't in Skyrim since the companions already exist doesn't make any sense in this context since the fighters guild could walk in and open up shop in any major city.

[@fergusonthereaver6686]

And they statight up said fuck the fighters guild even know in oblivion you can hear NPCs talking about that branch up in Skyrim. So the whole thing about what they said for their reason to not be in skyrim was simply bc Bethesda got lazy. Just look at their games. Fallout 2, one of the best rpgs out there and same goes for morrowind. Fallout 3 and oblivion come out and they just said " Fuck It, we just gon make it to where 9 year olds understand how to blow something up or pulverize it just bc aye it looks cool". The dropped the Less is more and whent with more is less.. Elder scrolls 6 is gonna be another Elder scrolls that needs fixed.

[@Janx14]

@@95Bartlett It also hurts world scale too. The point of local guild halls in universe would be so people dont have to travel/send mail.

[@Coreisus]

Yea! Also, lame how you'd constantly return to the same place to receive your next guild quest. Compared to in Morrowind or Oblivion, how they'd send you to the next city's guild after they ran out of tasks for you.

[@cullenST92]

The Dragonborn saved the world so many times that I got the impression he was being set up to become the next Talos

[@l0remipsum991]

Guard: Now I remember. You're the new member of the Companions. So you what? Fetch the mead? Dovahkiin: (clad in full Daedric) Do I look like I fetch the mead?!

[@agonleed3841]

@Heavy Metal Collector patronizing? really?

[@Archery_100]

@@l0remipsum991 Even as a Harbinger, they still say that

[@l0remipsum991]

@@Archery_100 Immersion 100

[@joshuagrahamcrackers]

It really makes me appreciate the progression you go through in Morrowind. For a good chunk of the game there's only one person in the world who gives a shit who you are. Once you hit a certain point though a lot of people become very interested in you, and they want you imprisoned or dead. It's not until you've overcome a great deal that the people in the world start to see and treat you as a hero.

[@koalawithchaingun53]

I would appreciate it if in future games, it was near impossible to become the leader of a guild. Too often it feels like every guild is about to undergo this massive story arc and you are the key, even though you’re some random who only just joined.

[@Janx14]

Indeed. Especially since when you're the head they don't treat you like the head, they continue giving you quests and you have no control over the faction. So why even make you the leader?

[@demonslayer6267]

honestly another thing i wish they did is actually have being the head...you know, WORTH IT, like there should be a proper reward for being head, with the mages guild it's super easy, have (some of ) the high level spells be possible to learn ONLY trough a guild, of course give multiple guilds options for that, and also only accessible via rank, so becoming the head of one of them actually rewards you with Master Spells you would otherwise not find in the wild, of course this will mean needing to have more spells in the game, the Fighters guild could for example give you items strong enough to be an actual replacement to Deadric armor and weapons as another example, if you don't want to wear light armor and look like a Demon, now unless they add something like fighting techniques and special attacks are work kind of like spells im not sure what else it could give, or what Assassin's and Thieves could get

[@finalcam1740]

you are not some random though thats the point. you are nerevarine, hero of kvatch, or dragonborn. all three have the favor of the gods basically.

[@odeiomine]

The problem is with the way skyrim is written, the protagonist is supposed to be this all powerful being and yet the game barely acknowledges it, the only time i remember when you can bring up being dragonborn and affect something is when trying to enter the winterhold college. If they want to make the pc a godlike chosen one then commit to it, but instead they made this weird middle ground where your character is all powerful but has little agency on the story.

[@duncanharrell5009]

Agreed. They need to decide which they want. Either we’re nobody or we’re a chosen one. Pick one.

[@SininNeon]

Still to this day I remember getting sent out on that very first duty/quest to find the mushrooms. I recall the my 12 year old self navigating the directions provided by the NPC to find the coast and the swampy region full of these beautiful colors and scenery. Not only that, the assortment of animals, from rats to floating jellyfish-like netchs, to the odd cliff-racer. I fondly am thinking about that moment while I am typing this, even though it took me some time to find all the mushrooms, but even 17 years later, I can vividly remember that exact moment and MANY more like it. That is something that I believe modern games (save a few, such as the Mass Effect Trilogy... if that counts as 'modern') lack now. Beyond the usual arguments for hand-holding, and watered down content... the true thing games are missing is heart, soul, and raw connection elicited from the player.

[@DarthChee]

One immersive thing in Morrowind I never thought I would miss, named bandits. I am not killing random bandit highwayman, I am killing Jolgeir leader of the the slave trading bandits In Saturan. Makes it feel like you are killing real people not wildlife.

[@insanegamer23899]

I feel like they make the Dragonborn thr Arch-Mage so quickly because several of the top staff there (with a few exceptions) are fairly stupid (I mean the 'master' of illusion can't even tell if he's invisible or not!), and the Dragonborn just seems like the least Stupid person who also happened to do something worthy of the promotion.

[@CanadianBlaze137]

I got mad because honestly id rather Mirabelle be in charge. And she could have. But it was all like Savos Aren: *gets killed by Ancano* Me: Ok so Mirabelle will be Arch Mage Bethesda: Nope. Mirabelle: *also gets killed by Ancano* Me: Ok.....so I guess now Tolfdir- Bethesda: Is master wizard. Congratulations Dragonborn now YOU are the Arch Mage! Me: Thats nice and all but Ive still got alot to learn about magic and I feel any of the instructors here would be more fittin- Bethesda: Your the new Arch Mage! Now rejoice! Me: OK......so um since I'm Arch Mage were gonna better defend the College from threats like Ancano right? Bethesda: No Me: Ok is there anyway I can patch things up with Winterhold and the Nords who hate us? Bethesda: No Me: Well can we at least make an effort to fix- Bethesda: WHY DOES EVERYONE KEEP BUGGING US ABOUT THE GODDAMN BRIDGE?

[@ajf6791]

@@CanadianBlaze137 this was very accurate and funny lol

[@l0remipsum991]

Being an Archmage is just symbolic. It's pretty obvious. Also for those who are interested: www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/skyrim/comments/3rc2mv/an_essentially_accurate_summary_of_skyrims/

[@CanadianBlaze137]

@@l0remipsum991 this is brilliant

[@PriceAintRight]

Jesus this was on point.

[@Umbra_Ursus]

Bethesda has gotten worse with age. Better gameplay, yes, but the story and actual progression shat the bed.

[@DatcleanMochaJo]

So ultimately not better lol Skyrim certainly plays better but its combat is not perfect

[@Umbra_Ursus]

@@DatcleanMochaJo Agreed. It's really noticeable if you've gone from Fallout 4 to Oblivion. Fallout 4 has seriously fun combat, and yet I'm enjoying the actual character of Oblivion far more.

[@ShadowMoses900]

I think their games improved up until just recently.

[@Umbra_Ursus]

@@DevixianTheOriginal New Vegas was golden, at least. And it was half-finished and rushed by Bethesda, and still better than anything they've made.

[@radzilla748]

@@Umbra_Ursus another one of you guys uh...

[@MHChrono]

I remember some pretty boring quests in Oblivion too, to be fair. I just want the ability to make spells again... The spells in Skyrim didn't scale well, and you were stuck using a short list of spells that weren't that interesting. Let us pick shapes (Cone, Bolt, Ball etc.), duration and intensity! Have magic scale with our level so it doesn't feel weak compared to other options. And I'd love to see the next Mage's guild get as much love as the Dark Brotherhood quest line got in Skyrim.

[@Ch35h1r3C47]

You might like a game called "Lichdom: Battlemage" (i know, the title is awful). But basically it's all about being a mage, making spells using different elements and configurations, using those spells to annihilate legions of enemies in fun ways Check it out.

[@Nervonous]

To be fair, the dark brotherhood in Skyrim was also quite shit, but the dark brotherhood in oblivion now that was an amazing experience

[@MHChrono]

@@Nervonous Oh I agree the Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion was great! I also quite liked the Thieves Guild (mostly the Mask xD). Honestly though, feels like every other guild-type questline was more fleshed out than the College was in Skyrim... I was expecting some crazy quests once you finally gain admission to the guild in Oblivion, but the biggest obstacle was just being admitted in the first place. Morrowind really did a better job with mages overall.

[@Nervonous]

@@MHChrono I agree certainly the vast majority of guilds or groups in Morrowind were far superior to any we have seen since and I agree Oblivion Mages guild wasn't anywhere near the level of Morrowind but I did enjoy it a bit at least despite Manimarco being kind of disappointing (I'll also admit I hated how the mages guild was so damned against necromancy but there wasn't another magic guild or group to join that wouldn't give a shit). Skyrim college though was just flat out garbage like not even remotely good except maybe one quest so I would take Oblivion over skyrim anyday.

[@fergusonthereaver6686]

@@Nervonous couldn't of said it better. And the theives guild is skyrim. COMPLETE SHITE. I pray to Azura that ES6 is a redemption from its recent title's. Which have been good none the less. Just overlacking what made the elder scrolls what it is. And this is coming from someone whos first es game was Skyrim. It's not hard to see the truth in which is better.

[@ysmirwulfharth4012]

I must say the Oblivion Mages Questline was epic if you had the Mod *Mannimarco Revisited* installed. Facing the King of Worms in his *Daggerfall Lich „Mode“* ! Truly remarkable !

[@DkKombo]

I do like the epic quests, but not if I don't earn it.

[@JessesanMan]

This basically. I want to do an epic quest of city-breaking proportions as a big climax, but I want to work my way up there, get some buildup, have to crawl out of the dirt and prove myself capable before I stop the Big Doom. But also have little hints sprinkled in of what's to come. Not OP Magic Monks springing up every few hours kind of hints, but actual, subtle hints.

[@DkKombo]

@@JessesanMan Yeah, like you kind of figuring out things and then just enough to say, "wait! The killer is him!!!" Gotta do it in a way that isn't game breaking though.

[@GrrumpyPants]

Oblivions didnt really thrust you straight into the important stuff. It starts with gathering recommendations, which is tedious and trivial, and when you finally get to the college you need to go make a mages staff. Its here that you accidentally get mixed up in the main threat the quest line deals with.

[@prismaticbeetle3194]

i imagined a hogwarts-isk college in winterhold and got... nothing

[@conradwerth6954]

Honestly, the part I love the most is that, once you enter the world of Morrowind, you aren't some hero. The Emperor sends you to Vvardenfell based on a prophecy he has heard, but you hardly learn about your destiny until much later. Furthermore, you aren't anything special once you enter the world. Everyone treats you as just another person in Vvardenfell. You do some good deeds, learn some more about the world, but ultimately, you aren't forced to become anybody super strong in the world. You could just be some random grifter who does good, but doesn't really align themselves with anybody until the circumstances of the world (The Rise of the 6th House and Dagoth Ur) forces you to find allies to defeat an enemy. But even then, you can simply avoid the main quest, roleplaying the game for most of the game without being a major player in the world.

[@vitormaodevaca8469]

also,when you do learn that you're the hero of a prophecy,the people don't belive you,and if they do,they don't like one bit

[@Umbra_Ursus]

The only good parts of the Collage questline was Brelyna and a dragon priest mask. I could leave the rest.

[@l0remipsum991]

+ Ice Form, Slow Time (Yeah dungeon lockout sucks)

[@rixille]

Why Brelyna? She's a insignificant character with very little to offer.

[@Umbra_Ursus]

@@rixille Cute, mage so she hangs back (nice for a melee brute like me), and never really did anything to make me dislike her. It helps that I decked her out in full dwarven, and she looked amazing.

[@99bulldog]

What is the use of having epic quests where you're the hero when no one recognizes or even cares what you've done, and yes I realize that there is a mod to fix that. The point is that Bethesda hasn't cared about making a true rgp in quite some time. They just make open worlds that have no depth.

[@sorrowdusk5068]

which mod?

[@l0remipsum991]

@@sorrowdusk5068 Check out Brodual's channel. Immersive College of Winterhold is one mod I remember.

[@99bulldog]

@@sorrowdusk5068 www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/69660

[@99bulldog]

@alvi syahri follow the link read the description

[@99bulldog]

@alvi syahri I believe there is a video in the description basically there are conversation options and new dialog to stop people who are treating you like a b!tch or try to block your quest progress from doing so.

[@scottdevnull5778]

honestly my least favorite thing about the college is how barren of magical activity there is, other that during quests there is just some shooting of destruction spells at the walls and that's it

[@madouc5754]

becoming Arch mage when I usually used bow and sword in the quests was daft. Aside from that there is simply no magic to be learned that you can't just purchase outside the college.

[@madscientistshusta]

When they made me arch made i was like: "..lolwut? Me? Not tolfdir over there? You know they guy whos been 2nd in command for half s century!? Me? They guy who showed up last week? The guy trouble seems to follow? Like ok sure i saved yall from the eye of magnus issue,but that doesn't mean i know how to run a millenia old institution!" Honestly if thats hoe they pick their archmages its no wonder college of winterhold is a dying institution! Real talk though it was poor ending to the quest and didn't fit at all it really pulled me out of the immersion,becoming the new high king of skyrim or the emporer would make way more sense especially since titus mede does die in one quest ending,like it would make sooooooo much sense that a new dragon born would seize the throne and reunite all of tamreal in its time of need against the thalmore menace. Especially since the last dragonborn ruler sacrificed himself in the oblivion gate crisis. Personally i really thought that was going to happen, like they lined the narrative right up for it,i bet that was the original plan too!

[@omaralghoul1497]

I totally agree with u in Skyrim magic is so boring especially that there is no spell crafting like oblivion and morrowwind. And keep the good work I really enjoy ur content👍🏻👍🏻

[@Gensolink]

no spell crafting would have been fine if there were more, better spells in vanilla. Adding rare tomes with multiple spells effect to simulate spellcrafting would have been cool to loot.

[@omaralghoul1497]

Gensolink ur tottaly right but Ireally enjoy magic and love to feel like a real mage who would study other spells to make his own perfect spell

[@Gensolink]

@@omaralghoul1497 Fair enough, i never got to do it because I have the attention span of a gold fish but spell making looks really fun

[@Kibriana]

Not to mention that you couldn't progress in the guild unless you'd met rank requirements. But, there was one thing I hated about it - Ald'Ruhn's quests. It was just one Dwemer ruin after another. So annoying.

[@VuLe-lf4xt]

Totally agree. Maybe they could've spiced it up with some teleports directly to the ruin or a few friendly mage npcs in the ruins before and after you clear it, since now that it's empty it could be safe for study.

[@wiibrockster]

I hated that too. I hated that early quest involving a rogue Telvanni too. It took me forever to find him

[@madamwinnifer4666]

There was one small redeeming factor about the Ald'Ruhn Dwemer fetch quests: You could get them before you even entered the guild. Like when you're joining the Imperial Legion and doing the Gnisis Eggmine quest you could get the items from the ruins in there. Great for replays, just not the initial one.

[@Kibriana]

@@wiibrockster Oh, yeah that one with that guy that was in some cave somewhere east of Balmora :D

[@Kibriana]

@@VuLe-lf4xt Exactly. Anything would be better than "go fetch me an artifact and do your best not to die".

[@wailfulcrab]

Plus you need actual magic skills to progress. In Skyrim, you can do whole questline casting spells just 3 times in whole chain. In Morrowind, you won't get a promotion if your skills are not high enough. So there is some sense of progress here as skills level if you use them and spells can fail to cast.

[@potatotomoato]

I've been playing morrowind like crazy. Magic is truly awesome in morrowind. Tho its not as nice looking. But u can levitate, jump insanely high, fall slowly, teleport, create diverse force fields, summon an insane amount of creatures. Conjuration is godly in Morrowind and alteration is super fun. In the guilds u actually have to meet requirements to advance not just spam quests. Ur not gonna be arch mage without being a godly wizard. And u can create insane spells with random effects *o* u can use ninja stars, spears, physically attack with staves. The list goes on and on. U need to heavily mod skyrim to be as versatile as Morrowind.

[@arcaneusumbra1539]

It's because they're elves, isn't it?

[@wisemankugelmemicus1701]

Cover the Knightly Orders in Daggerfall.

[@SuperMeCrazy1]

Tbh I loved the ability to create our own spells, that was by far the best to actually feel part of the mage guild

[@drakath5395]

you work for everything in morrowind, you actually feel proud about being the nerevarine or getting a new rank because that shit took you hours, so youre damn right im gonna show it off

[@leights1493]

Morrowind has the best everything tbh

[@d-dh2143]

Other than combat. Especially as any kind of caster. But all TES games have that problem where the fighter outclasses the wizard/cleric/etc.

[@bobloerakker7010]

Yes enchanting, magic making, atmosphere. But not combat i think

[@ThePlayer920]

Both the Oblivion DB and TG questlines far outshine their Morrowind counterparts

[@DebatingWombat]

Well, the world navigation and especially the vague and sometimes outright erroneous directions you got were quite frustrating as well. Especially when Morrowind first came here out and you couldn’t just go to UESP to find out where you actually needed to go.

[@DebatingWombat]

@ThePlayer920: But those quest lines are rare exceptions of even slightly complex and ambiguous storytelling in Oblivion, unlike Morrowind which has that in spades. Also, I don’t think the Thieves Guild one is really that much better. That depends on whether you prefer your Thieves Guild to be more “mystic/magical” or more straight up criminal syndicate with a conscience (Bal Molagmer in Morrowind). Also, it’s a bit tricky to make a direct comparison between the Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion and Morrowind’s Morag Tong (they’re quite distinct in the lore as well), as the latter’s role as recognised and somewhat legal assassins makes for quite a different setup from the sinister, underground assassins of the Dark Brotherhood. That said, I was a bit surprised and disappointed that the Morag Tong had such a relatively uninteresting quest line in Morrowind, considering the general level of infighting and competition between the other guilds and factions. That there was not some quests pertaining to the Morag Tong’s rivalry with the Dark Brotherhood (akin to those related to the Camnona Tong/Thieves Guild rivalry), especially after the assassins of latter faction started to target you in the Tribunal expansion, seemed a bit of a wasted opportunity,

[@xaosbob]

I really do like the big, epic quests, but I also love smaller jobs and stories and getting to know the world from the bottom up. There's a place for chores and ratcatching and "wax on, wax off," and you're right--those sorts of activities do serve to contrast with the bigger, more splashy quests and highlight them as something special. I may need to play Morrowind this winter.

[@emilybroderick2421]

I'm fine with an epic questline as long as it's done well, with build-up, pacing, and other interesting and relevant tasks to pursue in my spare time. I will happily save the world ten times in two weeks if the journey to get there is nuanced and fun.

[@bluerationality]

Same with all guilds. You needed to have the stats and fullfill tasks to advance in the guilds. Oblivion was more simplified but still somewhat okay, but in Skyrim you do a few things and then they make you the leader.

[@BertMiscerson]

“Mowwowind”

[@CoolStoryBro455]

Skywim

[@mikealpha4169]

Nevewawine

[@mkay6915]

Hewo, szenawio, pfomode

[@kyzerbuhnzi6403]

OwO

[@exile9024]

when i completed my first play through of the College of Winter hold my immediate thought was that it was not a guild but instead just another story quest possibly to gain entry into the guild Nope!... i remember a very strong sense of disappointment after realizing that that was it no more College except for radiant quests...simply put the College in Skyrim isn't really a guild so much as it is a single quest chain...it barely manages to feel like a active institution occupied by students and educators.

[@alejoreyes6012]

One aspect I loved about factions in Morrowind is that you actually feel like a member of a Guild. At the beggining you are treated as a noob, assigned the most tedious tasks and paying you nothing in return. All you get is reputation with your guild, and you are actually required to improve your skills to rise up the ranks. It also involves dealing with faction politics to achieve the highest rank. It actually feels that you are part of a world, not the center of it.

[@delfinenteddyson9865]

I allways liked it when, after spending alot of time doing work for a guild, the other guild members had a higher disposition towards you and greeted you warmly when you came back.

[@benwilliams3539]

Damn, that intro music is nostalgic.

[@_Anato_]

Skyrim: - Magelight to get in - A warding spell - No other magic required, you become arch mage after 2 quests.

[@vulneratus5980]

Don’t forget, you can also be a Telvanni spy within the Mages Guild, keeping the Archmage in place as a sort of useful idiot while eroding the Guild’s influence on Vvardenfell. So far that’s been my favorite playthrough of any Elder Scrolls game to date.

[@ciashev1121]

I’ve really enjoyed your daily uploads! Good luck at university and we’ll still be here supporting you :)

[@AvartiPlaysGames]

Thanks!

[@atomicspacewizard]

The guild system in Daggerfall was interesting too- lots of Radiant-style fetch quests, but you really had to work your way up.

[@KN_Dingowarrior]

Best of luck to you in your Pursuits in University. Though I've been somewhat of an Ass-Hat in my staunch Defense of the Stormcloaks, I do wish you the Best. Oh, I"m 100% with you on this Video. In truth I have the Morrowind-Expanded Mod that Includes the Capital of Telvanni on the Main-Land of Morrowind. Awsome Stuff!

[@AvartiPlaysGames]

Thanks for the kind words!

[@ambrosiuscw4478]

I absolutely agree with you. The ability to have the 'side distractions' is absolutely one of the things that made Morrowind so great. Some times I just want to roll up a character that plays another part in the world, not someone who is the pivotal player in every group they involve themselves in. There was a glimmer of 'rival factions' in Skyrim with The Synod, but just imagine how cool it'd have been if they were an actual alternative faction you could join over the CoW.

[@Imperator_Chrysalis]

I wish there was more day to day business as a member of the mage guild. Something like teaching students, gathering ingredients, research and practicing newly created spells.

[@Ch35h1r3C47]

Hey bro, i made this cool new spell, can i shoot you with it? What does it do? Makes you weigh 3 tonnes. Sure, go for it... when does it wear off? Ah.... i might need to tweak it still.... ¦:¬|

[@Imperator_Chrysalis]

@@Ch35h1r3C47 xD

[@Markis2bi4]

I think each game had its own way of playing through the world of Tamriel. It is noticeable that Skyrim is a lot more simplified, but even I will admit that I enjoy some power fantasy; that my decisions will have weight with the people and groups I interact with. Perhaps this is a little too easy, but I still enjoyed Skyrim. Morrowind was special in that despite having a destiny ahead of you, the MC, you still had to work for your place in the world after. In a jaded sense, The Chosen One is more like a high-paying but short term job - one you must complete in full, of course, but after which the world does not necessarily need you. With or without power you will just be another person in the world of Tamriel. Lauded, hated, or remembered for a long time, yes, but still just a person. With that said, having a place after your grand quest should be common sense. Like planning out your retirement as you go on through life. One cannot ride the coattails of their legend forever.

[@ladamyre1]

I spent a fair amount of time there getting Janand to enchant a lot of stuff for me. After I got Azuras Star I would summon a Golden Saint, kill it to Soul Trap its 400 points and make constant effect items like the 1-50 Chameleon Ring I made from Processus Vitellus' ring I found at the beginning. If you'd like to read "The Journal of Ladamyre" and see how I finished the main quest of Morrowind and replaced Tholer Saryoni as the Patriarch of the Tribunal Temple, became the Grandmaster of House Hlaalu and the Morag Tong, Master of the Fighter's Guild, Archmage of the Mage's Guild, Master Thief of the Thieves' Guild, became a Primate in the Imperial Cult and Knight of the Imperial Legion, achieved the top rank in all these factions AND reached 100 in all of the attributes in 50 level-ups in less than 50 days of game time, click on this link... forums.uesp.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=24544&p=537030#p537030 It's a long read, so fair warning. But if you are a fan of the game, I think you'll enjoy the read and maybe want to play a game like it. It is very fun to play the game following the plan I outlined in the journal.

[@Mr._Anderpson]

That's one of the problems with the Elder Scrolls games. You don't really play a character with focus. After a certain point, you're just a jack of all trades who excels at nearly everything & your only purpose is to wander the world collecting hats to wear representing each faction which has dubbed you Sir Min/Max of Vvardenfell.

[@ladamyre1]

@@Mr._Anderpson Problem? I think it's genius. Who DOESN'T want to be superman? After all Bethesda is trying to make a game to SELL, so why NOT do the formula? The formula has been for decades, get the boys in the audience to dream of being the hero (or villain) and get the girls to dream of kicking boys' asses. Both sexes basically fantasizing of power they don't really have. What made Morrowind different from all the other games that were doing the same things was the Construction Set. It spawned the modding community and that is why Morrowind and now Skyrim are some of the most popular games in history. It invites any person who plays the game to be an addition to the team that designed the game in the first place. It's a game that builds itself, improves itself, has become a thing that's alive, has a life of its own.

[@therealbahamut]

Valid points all. Mundane quests are like the space between notes in music; without the rests, the string of notes just become noise. One thing that made Morrowind's mages' guild more interesting was the lack of fast travel. Their teleportation service and their presence in multiple locations meant you didn't have to stop everything you were doing and travel to the corner of the world to go see them. It felt good learning their locations and using them to travel smartly throughout Morrowind, especially when you combined them with the other forms of teleportation. Morrowind also had a few less filler NPC's in its guilds. You got a chance to talk to everyone about something somewhat important at least once. The fact that the guilds also gauged your skills and abilities before promotion (which Skyrim dispensed with entirely!) added to the accomplishment. While some may argue that some of that was obsoleted by many of Skyrim's core design choices, I simply say "I rest my case."

[@fraillittlegoblin8664]

You have just convinced me to download TES3

[@kitashi_9971]

Don't play it without mods

[@fraillittlegoblin8664]

@@kitashi_9971 graphic mods and the good old thomas mod.

[@Yotanido]

@@kitashi_9971 Ehh, I think Morrowind is still very playable without mods. The graphics aren't the best, but they aren't *that* bad, either. In particular, though, I'd suggest not installing anything that alters actual gameplay. Things like Morrowind Rebirth are great for a second play-through, but are such vastly different experience, it might as well be a different game with the same story.

[@kitashi_9971]

@@Yotanido I like the old school grapghics but the gameplay is unbearable

[@johnnyboogalo4897]

they were working on skywind which is like skybolvian.Morrowind with skyrim engine but probably never be finished

[@ThibautVDP]

Plus, in morrowind you acutally needed the skil levels... RIGHT SKYRIM?! flipping greatsword archmage in a day

[@TacDyne]

With a great sword... you don't need magic. :D

[@lordvanazir1007]

sometimes you don't want to go all the way to the top right away, when i joined the companions i just wanted to do some jobs for cash but instead to get any further i was forced to become a werewolfs before anyone else would let me talk to them about work and even that was only after about maybe 1 or 2 normal jobs. it didnt feel like i had earned that spot to join the ranks of the werewolfs there at all

[@FidensLibertas]

in my opinion no Elder Scrolls game have ever had a good mage faction. let me explain. if i counted correctly... Daggerfall's mage guild had 3 quests that actually required casting spells in order to complete them. Morrowind's House Telvanni had 1 quest that required spell casting, it's the quest where you cure a Kwama queen. and before anyone brings up levitation, that's only required to reach the quest givers. the quests they give out don't actually require any spell casting to complete. Morrowind's mage guild has 1 quest where the player will have to cast a spell to complete it. it's the quest where you have to soul trap an Ash Ghoul. Oblivion's mage guild has... actually i forget how many spell you needed to cast to complete the questline. i do remember 1 where you had to cast spells at a pillar to open a passageway. you seeing the problem. now my issue isn't with the quality of these faction's questline, it's the structure of it. the vast majority of quests from these factions are either fetch quests or do involve magic but not in any way where you'll have to casts spells. the College of Winterhold for all its flaws did do 1 thing right. nearly all its quests do require spell casting. that said while its questline was better structured it was far from perfect. there's only like 8 instances where spell casting will be necessary and even then the spells you will need are all very basic. it's a step in the right direction but a very small one at that.

[@ComMaxil]

Great video, am just in the process of my first playthrough of Morrowind in 15 years and am enjoying the mages guild and its rivalry with Telvanni. Also, good luck with uni!

[@TacDyne]

Joining factions had benefits and consequences. That's what made Morrowind great, above all others.

[@RedDawnsingularity]

I think that in all role playing games, that when it comes to clans and factions, in order for them to be portrayed properly, need thier own side quest line, and thier own stories related to the guild in question. For like you said role playing purposes. Without the choice its not roleplaying, its an action/adventure game

[@ohauss]

Fully agree with you. In Oblivion, there was the added issue that there was not much left of the mage's guild by the time you became archmage - you basically became head of a skeleton guild reduced to a handful of individuals.

[@memeshort7189]

All Elder Scrolls games have ups and downs. What cant be denied is that almost all quests are fetch quests throughout the series.

[@FoxFire362]

I never played Morrorwind but the more i hear about the game, the more i think i should give it a try.

[@lordvanazir1007]

it goes on sale all the time on Steam, i strongly recommend picking it up, honestly the only major con to the game is the combat system (especially ranged) everything else is awesome.

[@Rajin90]

It's now on sale for like 3€. (on Steam)

[@cyrus9074]

I can tell you that when we first play with Morrowind in 2002 those quest were really boring. I also remember that the most of player welcome the change in Oblivion. One of the best example is the first quests of the Fighter Guilds. Oblivion literally made fun of the first quest of the Morrowind Fighter Guild.

[@linguisticallyoversight8685]

Your dedication to the guild is not in question your skill with magical is

[@ShinigamiStudiosDE]

"Why Morrowind was the better game" Fixed that for you :)

[@richterman3962]

It's the only one with a really really good magic system and all the guilds actually required yiu to practice skills

[@michelsantos298]

You use such variety of lexis that I watch your videos just to learn new words :D thanks for the hard work, especially in choosing the vocabulary.

[@hecticryry]

I agree with what you’re saying. I Morrowind and Skyrim I was a warrior and felt like a warrior hero doing random chores to get it over with. In Morrowind, I didn’t feel like a special warrior god, they treated me like someone who needed to learn about the job, what it was about, made me read books... oh god I want to play Morrowind again for it’s true RPG experience :)

[@chris1587]

So we can say "Old but Gold"

[@lilcruz5422]

I completely agree. I never played morrowind and I wasn’t into mages at all while playing oblivion. But the college of winterhold quest line always bugged me for being so epic and grandiose like all other questlines in skyrim. So when I play I only join one faction per character because it feels stupid to be the savior of Tamriel, the College, the Dark Brotherhood, thieves guild, Solstheim, etc while also being the Champion of Molag Bal, Dibella, Hercine and by default for being dragonborn, champion of Akatosh

[@Human000001]

What I did like from Oblivion was that you actually had to get the "letters of recommendation". When you actually was allowed into the guild grounds, it felt as if you've earned your way there. After that though, it lost all immersion and feeling of "earning your rank"...

[@Emily-blackrose]

I liked how in oblivion’s mages guild it starts small with most of the quest to get your recommendations to join, some where simple and others where more serious as not to baby you and one guy straight up try’s to get you killed, the diversity in quests made it feel so real

[@zionxiox1475]

I love playing mages in RPG's a lot, but Skyrim makes no God damn sense. Not even just the college. The whole damn game.

[@fergusonthereaver6686]

Ill agree with ya and disagree. But i get what ya mean none the less.

[@thhunter]

Morrowind was Bethesda's last great game. It limited the environment of daggerfall, but added a crazy amount of narrative. It was probably the last attempt to actually balance the two. Daggerfall had like five different cloak styles, and you could wear each one two or three different ways. Oblivion had blob people and a compass. I don't even remember how far I got in skyrim. Bethesda made some boss Terminator games back in the day too. I'd legitimately play Terminator: Rampage again, if I had a functional floppy drive and could bypass the copy protection. Seriously, I have the disks right here. Future Shock kind of followed the TES blueprint, I think. It was kind of fun, I think there were vehicle levels. There might have been another. Modern gaming is so depressing.

[@billythekeg]

Answer: There is no competition at all.

[@antoniogiannuzzi1256]

I feel skyrim quests dull. I very often would have liked to play as a mage, have a lot of esclusive stuff for being a mage (special enchantments, spells, armors, clothes...), but the game is designed to rush your way through the end and make you archmage even if you don't have the expert skill in at least one of the magical schools. You end up leading the college and still taking lessons in magic by the people you are supposed to lead and this if you are at least trying to roleplay a bit. I wish TESVI to be a more slow and meaningful game. Totally agree with you.

[@hemnecron]

I tend to agree. I find the little quests to find mushroom or deliver messages tedious and boring, especially considering there's no fast travel and you have to do everything on foot or find your way through with siltstriders, and the cliffracers are a pain. But it is more realistic than "prove yourself" "alright, now be a hero, come back in an hour and I'll have the archmage outfit ready"

[@garuelx8627]

Daggerfall's Mage's Guild advancement also has that sense of accomplishment more or less. Plus the rank benefits are just amazing.

[@0lderSch00l]

I think that Daggerfall's Mage's guild was also very interesting; mostly because you couldn't really control it. They existed to be a guild and if you wanted to be a part of that, sure, but you were really cut out of the upper echelons. It did make the guild seem more aloof, but also vastly more mysterious than the next three games. Dagger fall pretty much laid it all out for you and game you the choices; then there was only one choice for two games running. I don't care how amazing the quests are, if there are no alternatives then they don't really matter. BTW; Could you join the opposition in Oblivion, or did you have to be the hero?

[@AnubisMRM]

The Telvanni appear in Skyrim as well, although briefly, if you have the Dragonborn DLC. The wizard Neloth has quite some interesting quests and a few are quite funny.

[@benjaminharmon6541]

Skyrim's occasional throwbacks to House Telvanni did nothing but remind me how much better Morrowind factions were. When I found the diary in the wreck of Pride of Tel Vos, it was doubly sad because it wasn't just the House that fell--it was nuance that fell too. At least I have Brand-Shei as consolation.

[@c.j.8263]

i do agree that a game with too many epic quests centered around your position as the protagionist isn't preferred, skyrim really does have a lot of content that anyone could possibly complete, like completing bounty hunts on bandit camps, and helping people in the holds.

[@HegemoniaLegions]

What I don't like about the College of Winterhold main quest line, is that it feels like I go to some dwemer/nordic ruins, solve a puzzle or two and I've saved the world and am suddenly promoted to arch mage. There is no progression at all. Oblivion at least makes you get recommendations before entering university. Morrowind's my favorite because you have to do menial tasks, delve into dwemer ruins, have to actually explore the world / read as well as level up your magic skills for promotion. Morrowind's magic system / alchemy system is busted awesome too.

[@MirandaLayh]

Morrowind seems like such a lovely little game, I just couldn't get myself to play that much of it since it's such an old style. :C Maybe one day I'll get back to it.

[@forteanmobius3272]

The best thing about the College of Winterhold is that it is the best place in Skyrim to fight dragons. No killable npcs that you'd miss and if you're squishy there are plenty of pillars to hide behind.

[@Hektols]

In the College's defense, due to Skyrim's dislike of magic they were desperate for more recruits so they highly relaxed the entrance requeriments. And yes, they teach you magic, you just have to look for a master and pay for lessons to increase your skill ranks or pay for spell tomes if you want new spells, it would have been better if they gave you free training for doing radiant quests. Another important thing is that the College staff doesn't make you Arch-mage, it's the Psijic Order's guy who appoints you for the position. Toldfir and the other teachers don't protest, they won't fight an organization that has the Eye of Magnus, specially with the Archmage being more a symbolic role, the face of the College for the rest of Skyrim. Another great point in Morrowind were the requeriments, no matter how many quests and good deeds for the Guild you did, if you didn't a minimum of skill in several magic schools you don't get a promotion, you don't become Archmage if you are just a fighter with some spells.

[@zanderfield5960]

Morrowind was better in almost every way. It was a masterpiece in it's time and will always be an RPG classic.

[@hmm2598]

Right! Im playing as a mage in morrowind mages guild and im still after a week, im still a low grinder!

[@mario_1683]

One of the most interresting videos I've seen in a while.

[@kitashi_9971]

It was really just a die-hard morrowind fan forgetting half the quests in oblivion

[@xceryxdemurstra6323]

Morrowind absolutely had the best gameplay storyline-wise, and the most immersive world of series because of all the small Minor details that Oblivion and Skyrim still kind of have in their miscellaneous quests, but I feel like there's more alternate paths in Morrowind and different ways to build the character

[@Gensolink]

now that you're pointing it out I feel like being top dog of a guild should something to achieve after (or if you have the requirements) or while doing the main quest line as a sidequest. I hate that you can't say no either

[@dunmermage]

Completely agree, I'd love if there was a mod that you had to actually do research to create new spells (and have quests related to this mechanic). Like Spell Research for Skyrim.

[@mr.wilson9941]

Skyrim college: An order of spellwielding knights serving the greater good and protecting the innocent Morrowind mages guild: The Mob, but with spells

[@drzorbo3770]

After playing Daggerfall till my fingers hurt, I bought Morrowind when it came out. After several playthroughs I found there was so many things to do that I hadn't done. I continued playing it. I made a couple of mods, worked up my own modded faction. Loaded up a lot more mods. Played Oblivion when it came out. It bothered me that the main quest was thrust upon my character so quickly and urgently. Finally liked it and did a couple different playthroughs. Modded a little bit and loaded several additional mods. Skyrim had the hype. Bought that and the graphics wowed me. The combat was mindless. The number of great characters I met... well, few. I still play daggerfall (modded), Morrowind (modded) and sometimes even Skyrim (modded). I just can't work up a head of steam over Oblivion.

[@Evilta]

I think this might be why Oblivion's Dark Brotherhood amd Thieves Guild quest is one of the best due to the fact you are starting out standard and mundane and build up from there

[@smellacath3962]

1.25 Speed feels so natural and more pleasant to listen to.

[@davidsavage6863]

Great vid mate keep it up loving them 👍

[@Slavaltube]

Skyrim mage guild had great potential. At first it really did feel like a university. To enter they test you on whether You have magical abilities so that some barbarian nord peasant doesn't get in. Then you go to an actual lesson, get on campus and help your fellow mage students with their little experiments. Other professors also ask you to help them with research. The location is full of character, it is not only beautiful, but sells you the idea that this is a great old magic university. It is the storyline that ruins it. If they didn't cater the mage guild quests to be available for non-mage players who don't want to do a second playthrough, it could've been great

[@flaviofr4v0]

It may not be as complex as in Morrowind or Cyrodill, but the college in Winterhold suits with the nords and the rest of Skyrim for not being ones so fond of magicka. You see this when the skills of one simple Thalmor surpasses of any other mages in the college.

[@dealwolfstriked272]

God Howard was just getting his teeth when Morrowind emerged.Judge his management abilities on Oblivion and Skyrim,

[@hotdonutmix]

That’s also why Skyrim was successful many people don’t want to delve that deep into rpg.and just want quick entertainment mostly shallow action. But then became even more successful by then having mods to add back in the rpg elements for those who want it and action elements for those who want that....

[@levinseve3471]

It feels like the only enjoyable faction questline in Skyrim is the Companions.

[@mikealpha4169]

Dont forget the Dark Brotherhood quest line is pretty sweet as well

[@DebatingWombat]

It noticeable that the Dark Brotherhood is the Skyrim quest line that is almost always mentioned as one of the, if not the, best, because that is one of the few quite complex storylines with somewhat ambiguous and meaningful choices and characters. These kinds of interesting storylines seem to have become progressively rarer from Morrowind over Oblivion to Skyrim. Hence Morrowind’s morally ambiguous character and plot writing was already a far cry from Oblivion’s simplistic “Good vs. Evil” plots (with the latter’s Dark Brotherhood quest line as one of the few exceptions, along with its Molag Bal quest). Even when your actions had just superficial consequences in Oblivion (snide and/or critical NOC remarks about you if your infamy got to high), this could be fixed fairly easily (redoing the Knights if the Nine pilgrimage to reset your infamy) and didn’t involve permanent choices between fame and infamy. By contrast, in Morrowind, the people of Maar Gan will never forgive and forget if you kill their healer as directed by the head of the Balmora Mages Guild. The rather dubious excuse for this assassination is a vague allegation that the healer is actually a necromancer, something that is probably not true. Yet the “best” way to complete the quest is to falsely claim that you have killed the healer, who will instead have fled Vvardenfell, thus still resulting in the people of Maar Gan losing their only healer.

[@vitormaodevaca8469]

@@mikealpha4169 for me,skyrim's dark brotherhood is far better than the oblivion's dark brotherhood

[@andrewg4412]

Morrowind in general required you to have minimum skills/attributes to advance. Oblivion rewards you for following the same skills of the guild, skyrim was kinda... yeah.

[@robmitch4085]

I have a mixed feeling on it. I like having random small unimportant quests but I hate doing it over and over. At some point I do want people to go "Oh shit you are that hero. Ok ya we don't need to test your skills you are good." Like take neverwinter. Every place has small unimportant tasks that lead to showing you have the power to take on the big stuff. But you gets these quests no matter what. I went into another zone (level 70 same as the last 3 I was in) and to prove myself they wanted me to kill 30 hellhounds. Ignoring the fact at this point I killed tiamat, dimogorgon, a necromancer with god powers, an actual god, the vampire lord from barvovia, Killed off a rebel army, destroyed an invasion force of dark elves, took out cults of the four evils, and fucking satin himself. At some point proving my worth makes me just want to say "Fuck this and you I hope what ever big bad comes here and whips your nose off with your own spine." I don't mind doing them if I get board and want to.

[@MaxFusion01]

I agree. Years ago I used to prefer the jack of all trades watered down RPG type games but as I’ve aged I’ve gained an appreciation for the more hardcore RPG mechanics. It’s a shame Bethesda is dumbing down true RPG elements in their games these days. I’d love it if they remastered Morrowind in their latest engine. I’d prefer they give it Skyrim’s combat mechanics it kept Morrowind’s levelling system.

[@ryguy1483]

I was very confused as to why you choose this mages guild as I've played all three modern ES games. Makew sense, its why I love the thieves guild faction quests in Oblivion.

[@CharlesCowart-x2w]

LIke the vids bro. Good luck with college. Enjoy it while you can. All the best!