Why No Stats Majors in Quant?

A subscriber asked the question, why are there so few statistics majors in Michigan's quantitative finance and risk management masters? From what have seen this seems common across other programs as well.
What else might surprise you is that there aren't very many CS students in Michigan's program either.
Let's talk about it!
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[@andresrossi9]

What you're saying is also supported by the fact that stats and cs degrees are those with the lowest unemployment rate, so everything comes together

[@vipulverma6260]

Hi Dimitri. Since am big fan of QF, I regularly view your videos in another google profile. Well said that Stats undergrads make least for FE class. They have lot of options like most popular Acturial science & Data science or marketing research. Traditionally a lot amongst them also pursued Masters in Economics, Econometrics or simply traditional Mfin program. However what they pursue matters least. The fact of matter is Stats majors are most appropriately equipped to go through all application of all stuff stochastic processes, martinangles, copulas and estimation in QF and RM

[@paul_w]

Saying that actuarial science is more popular is very weird. Especially comparing it to data science.

[@vipulverma6260]

@@paul_w Atleast in big Cosmos in India Actuarial has gained popularity over last decade. Things were different 20 yrs backs we even didn't had our proper Acturial institute & depended on London instititute. Now we have IIA with thousands of student members. Now we have a whole acturial coaching industry thriving.

[@prod.kashkari3075]

Hey Dimitri, thanks for the shout out and answering my question! I was trying to give it some thought myself, but soon after I realized, even thinking about my situation as a statistics major and math minor, I just naturally have put statistics graduate programs on the top of my list from the beginning, so even I didn’t naturally think of quant finance programs. With the rise of “data science” programs too, a lot of stats folks also consider these programs as well so quant never makes the list. Also, I like to think of quant finance masters as these “applied math” masters programs, like you have even mentioned yourself. Even just looking at some of the courses an applied math masters have, they all have things like numerical analysis, differential equations etc, and quant finance programs seem to have these programs with an application to finance. Ie. Quant degrees are just applied math ms degrees with a finance flavor, and it makes a whole lot of sense why stats majors don’t consider them. A typical statistics masters programs will have a sequence in mathematical statistics, linear model theory, stochastic processes, Bayesian methods, some applied courses, and other “rigorous” courses which have mathematical foundations, but for statistics concepts and an emphasis on statistical theory. In my mind, I think I just naturally felt that I’d rather tread waters in familiar territory at a graduate level than go into a program where I may have not seen math like numerical analysis, PDEs, or complex analysis. There is some overlap with quant programs and statistics programs probably, but I think with the thought of being in “safer” more familiar territory statistics majors may opt for the latter vs the former, since both programs are quite rigorous in their own way. And for my friends who are cs majors, many of them just think about becoming software engineers in tech so their thoughts never go to quant finance either. Also, MS CS programs are good as well so for them it’s the same idea of treading water in safer territory. I think a future video you could talk about is how people with operations research backgrounds can be useful in quant finance and if you see much impact with these masters degrees. I have some friends who are industrial systems engineering (ise) majors in college who take a lot of OR related courses and considering operations research masters programs to break into quant finance. Some of them feel like they get ignored amongst stats, math, and cs majors 😂.

[@DimitriBianco]

Thanks for asking the question! Many people have found it helpful.

[@TundeBot]

Brilliant points 👍. When I saw the finance majors as 2nd at first I was like “There’s no freaking way” 😂

[@vytutassareikas9712]

Why? My friend studies finance and 80% of the program is advanced math, statistics, econometrics and programming

[@incertosage]

@@vytutassareikas9712he might be studying “quantitative/mathematical finance” which is different

[@F30Gremlin]

My major at my school r n is Statistics and Quantitative Modeling. Proud to represent!

[@Jiajiasohandsome]

Baruch？

[@69ms]

Would an Actuarial undergrad typically fit the bill for mathematical rigour? I'm still working (patiently...) through a couple of the books you've recommended but I don't know if interviewers would really be able to verify what I know unless I go out of my way to take stochastic calculus at a master's level in final year. I've already completed a semester-long stochastic calculus module and earned a great grade; unfortunately though this was taught for undergrads meaning all the GOOD stuff like core proofs for Brownian motion and Stochastic Calculus in continuous-time was elegantly avoided.

[@DimitriBianco]

An actuarial undergrad prepares you will for a quant masters.

[@jasonavina8135]

Another answer to the question, "why are there so few Statistics majors in the Quant Finance program?" might be two other reasons. 1) There aren't that many Statistics majors TOTAL compared to other majors. So if the percentage of Statistics majors from total majors is already less than say, Finance, Computer Science, Engineering, etc, then the percentage that apply to any given program such as Quant Finance, will also be smaller. 2) Statistics as a bachelors degree, is actually more useful, in terms of strictly obtaining a job after graduation, than say Finance, or Business, or even Mathematics with a non stat emphasis. So the total pool of Stats majors is already less, due to them already having jobs and not needing a Masters, unlike Finance majors, who mostly need to go back to school if they want to actually work in Finance.

[@samk814]

Hi Dimitri, I graduated with an applied econ degree and I'd love to purse career as a quant or in the field of data science. After watching your videos and did some research myself, I started applying for masters degree in statistics specifically in Australia. I noticed that some stats master are under college of science or math while some are under college of business. Do you think that these statistics programs vary much? Like statistics master program under college of business and economics is not as good as the ones offered under math/science?

[@DimitriBianco]

Typically the science based ones are better but it varies a lot from university to university. I would look at the core courses and electives to better compare programs.

[@matteogirelli1023]

I wonder why few people from maths, physics, stats etc. come into economics. It also is a brilliant field for applications of mathematics in model writing and solving and statistics in econometrics. There is also money to be made. Probably because there is a stereotype and less courses called "quantitative economics "

[@mugsyarulpaatham1662]

Im in high school and im a physics and math student and planning on doing an undergrad in applied math and statistics. Then, a masters in financial engineering.

[@Rick-ll3jz]

Hi Dimitri. I’m in my last year for physics undergrad. I want to go into statistics for my master’s. How do you think the background in physics would be helpful in the quantitative finance field?

[@DimitriBianco]

You should have covered a variety of topics that will be useful such as ODE, PDE, the Faynman-Kac, Taylor Series, and linear algebra. Any programming skills are useful as well.

[@THEMRblackboy7thst]

have to warn you, it will be nothing like physics. It's going to be easy and the problem with that is that you may find it a bit boring

[@icodestuff6241]

finance is one of the biggest fields that physics majors go into, since any "real physics jobs" basically require a phd

[@dAntony1]

How common is a statistics undergraduate degree in the U.S.? Most schools I know of only have a mathematics major and stats minor or fairly small statistics department in general. I know some large big name schools have stats undergrad programs but I’m not sure how common it is in general. It’s *seems* like general mathematics is way more commonplace. Personal anecdote, I had to do a mathematics undergraduate degree when I went back to school because they only offer a minor in statistics due to most of the faculty being pure math researchers. The ones who did teach stats were often busy doing consulting work on top of being a professor and some even left because the stats careers better than academia.

[@DimitriBianco]

Most big schools in the US will have a statistics degree for undergrads. Smaller schools will offer it as a minor as you mentioned through the math department. Some schools are now seeing a higher demand for stats degrees as they combine stats and data science into a degree.

[@prod.kashkari3075]

Depends on how well known or big the department is for statistics

[@chadreads-y3b]

is carnegie mellon's bscf program #1 for undergrad programs? is the bscf enough to get a quant role or would I need a masters too? Should I graduate as a sophomore with math/stats(not at cmu) or a junior with a BSCF (at cmu)?

[@DimitriBianco]

In the US you'll need a graduate degree such as a masters or PhD. As for when to graduate, it depends on what courses you have taken. You want to make sure you are prepared enough for a graduate degree. Undergrad is also cheaper, so I would take the time to learn as much there before going for a graduate degree.

[@chaiyatatchawaldit6045]

Hi cmu stats undergrad here, bscf can get u quant roles but u don’t need it to get quant roles. The physics, math, stats, cs majors all can get into quant. When u made it into cmu, it’s not the program but the connections from networking and raw interview performance that will get u the role The safest pipeline into top quant shops is from math competitions called Putnam which is similar to high school Olympiad. Performing well there gets u recruiter contacts and networking opportunities

[@anandhrajan99]

Are there any good programs which accept the gmat? I scored 770 recently. I have a degree in electronics engineering and lots of programming experience but no exposure to finance whatsoever.

[@DimitriBianco]

Many programs do accept the GMAT. If you look at the requirements on each programs website you'll see who accepts it.

[@sibusisomani1746]

Hi Dimitri, I have been working in Supply Chain Analytics for almost 8 years now and anticipating to switch careers, I have BSc(Mathematics & Physics) and BSc(Hons)(Medical Physics), I am accepted to study BCom(Hons)(Financial Modelling) and these are modules that will be doing:Forecasting, Stochastic Modelling, Financial Modelling. Is this a right path to breakthrough Financial Engineerinng master?

[@brcey]

Definitely 👍🏽

[@brcey]

As long as you understand financial terms & how to use applied mathematics when evaluating markets, investments or analyzing businesses you’ll be great fit

[@jackt3356]

So would you still recommend stats over maths undergraduate for those aiming for quant?

[@DimitriBianco]

Yes

[@jackt3356]

@@DimitriBianco thank you!

[@DimitriBianco]

@jackt3356 I would try and take a good amount of math during the stats degree however having statistics as context makes it easier to grasp.

[@jackt3356]

@@DimitriBianco appreciate it. Thanks! Would you recommend any finance mods in undergraduate or prioritise things like algos?

[@DimitriBianco]

@jackt3356 I would focus on the math and stats courses. Reading the book, "Essentials of Investments" by Bodie, Kane, and Marcus" will help you understand the general finance principles.

[@flowinglikethewaterz]

Hey Dimitri, I was interested in becoming a Quantitative Analyst in the field of predicting stock prices, bonds, etc. for perhaps working at a hedge fund or something like that. Would you happen to have any information on that?

[@DimitriBianco]

I don't focus on that area but search Christina Qi on LinkedIn or KZbin. She has done some interviews and posts a lot on LinkedIn.

[@myopinionman8199]

The might be a bit of a base rate effect here.

[@uttambiswas9941]

Is Physics major or msc a good choice to enter into quant

[@Simon-fm5gy]

Answered in an other Video. It is ok but only because of the math Part