Why parking your car is too cheap

Charging more for parking could save the environment, ease congestion and inject energy back into the high street. But how? The Guardian's Peter Walker explains that we've been thinking about parking all wrong: it's not a right, but rather an over-subsidised waste of space
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Sources: The High Cost of Free Parking (2011) - Donald Shoup; Psychology of the Car (2017) - Stefan Gössling; Research into the Use and Effectiveness of Maximum Parking Standards - Department of Transport
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[@sixbrigands]

I hate driving in the city. I hate parking in the city, even when it's free. It just makes sense to take the train or ride the bike in a dense area where everything one needs is close at hand.

[@leew1598]

That's the contradiction. Driving is one of the most stressful ways of getting about according to surveys, the reasons people like to drive cars is usually associated with words like 'speed', 'freedom' 'mastery' but they say what they mostly feel is frustration and stress, especially when the light goes green and you still don't make it through because of traffic. It's so stressful yet still so widely used.

[@TheScondComming]

Socialist communist's swine.

[@benjaminrubenstein421]

@@TheScondComming Of course, there’s always a conservative bring up politics in the most unrelated topic🙄

[@alohatigers1199]

@@benjaminrubenstein421 Is it tho? What is up with you people hating on anyone that owns a house? What is up with you people demanding anyone to live in cities because you know what’s best for the country? What is up with you anti-car people? You literally sound one of those people: “We want everyone to live in cities like Tokyo because living in apartment is so much better than owning a house. We want everyone’s dreams of living in a city UTOPIA” Sry buddy your utopia is someone’s dystopia

[@benjaminrubenstein421]

@@alohatigers1199 Im not hating on anyone that owns a house, I own a house too. I have a house in the City and another in the rural part of my county. So I know the pros and cons of both.

[@MONi_LALA]

"Why parking your car is too cheap" Me: Paying $50 for 4 hrs in Chicago. "Yeah, then I'm not rich enough to own a car."

[@isidoreaerys8745]

$20 dollars for a 2 hour hotel hookup in Las Vegas

[@5688gamble]

That is one car off the road, then! Success! The safe and quiet streets will be a real boon for business! Lots of passing trade to be done! Car drivers don't generally stop on a whim!

[@luce5261]

The real cost of parking (ASMR)

[@zimbu_]

Forget about somebody driving to the city centre without thinking about it, the only reason that's possible in a city of 500k+ is because the people who designed the city gave the road network highest priority without thinking about it. I'm not sure if that Swedish fellow telling us to convince people that other transportation methods are better understands the magnitude of marketing and lobbying powers he's asking us to defeat.

[@Hirotoro4692]

Of course he understands. But if you enjoy the way things currently are, then by all means remain silent on the subject.

[@snsuzivo]

Politicians telling us that we dont need to use family cars, while they are being driven in big vehicles like sedans and SUVs alone...

[@pa0mafeurtadott777]

idea of freedom has run away with us so now we view convenience as a right

[@eriklakeland3857]

The freedom NOT to drive is underrated. Many parts of my city are dangerous to take a bike or walk due to car accidents.

[@ster2600]

Yes, cars are the number one most individualistic thing on the planet

[@5688gamble]

Yet in trying to create that convenience, you actually made a dystopia where people fight for storage space and get stuck in rage inducing traffic to visit horrible asphalt deserts with no soul! Sounds like a bit of an inconvenience!

[@Maniac3020]

I have conflicting feelings about this. I can see the evidence. I can see how car obsessed design is choking modern cities. But I live out side the city, where the only realistic way to travel is by car. There's no bus out here.

[@ster2600]

There are many answers to this. Naturally it's not your fault that this is the case. Could you cycle? Could you cycle or drive to somewhere from which you can catch public transport (some cities subsidise this "park and ride" model)? Would it actually be sensible to live closer to places you need to go regularly?

[@5688gamble]

Lobby your local government for more amenities and better transit then.

[@disarmsox]

Most people drive because they have to, not because it's enjoyable or cost effective. We don't all live in London where there is good public transport. Public transport is not good enough, not reliable enough, in most places. They are run for profit and not to serve the public. I would love to ditch my car but I wouldn't have a job any more and would be relying on expensive taxis to take me to all of the places where buses do not run.

[@isaiah5217]

disarmsox thanks for saving me from watching this video if that's the jist.The description sounded like the typical ideas that sprout from Neoliberal/Monetarist religious indoctrination. I hate experiencing and contributing to traffic, parking, parking lots, unnecessary fossil fuel consumption, etc. But they've tried this for at least the 2 decades in so many places I've had to park, and it doesn't improve congestion; it's only a rent/tax on people who have little to no practical alternative, e.g., public transportation.

[@izdatsumcp]

Yeah, you're wrong. The problem isn't profit before people, it's people before profit. Parking spaces have been subsidised, as have the roads themselves. If both of these things were left up to profit, they would have been more costly, and mass transit would have become more attractive in comparison, leading to better mass transit. But, yeah: keep spitting that anti-market spiel, even though most of the proposals in the video are about mimicking the market. You people are amazing.

[@disarmsox]

@@izdatsumcp You're a but late for the party. I can't even remember the video a year on.

[@izdatsumcp]

@@disarmsox Did I really obliterate you so hard that you have to pretend you don't even remember what is being talked about? Amazing. That is to be chalked up as a win for me.

[@disarmsox]

@@izdatsumcp what are you on about. Go back to sleep.

[@Basta11]

I always wondered why buildings in the U.S. are generally flat and wide, 1-2 floors mostly, except the city centers. This is the consequence of minimum parking requirements. According to the minimum parking requirements, generally, the more floor space your building has, the more parking you must provide. Since parking garages are expensive to build, they generally set aside land for parking instead. However, the taller the building, the more floor space you have, and the more parking you are required to provide. Since your land is limited, you are restricted from building up unless you build a parking garage. This has a cumulative effect of making cities unwalkable as buildings are further and further away separated by massive parking lots. Its a huge contributor to urban sprawl. Commercial centers in the U.S. tend to be like islands surrounded by a sea of parking space. Exhausting and not enjoyable to walk through at all. Even if you have metro stations, many times they end up in places where buildings are too far away to walk to because of all the parking lots.

[@tobeytransport2802]

Why don't the council pay more for trams and buses then. As well as putting parking prices up. If they made the bus free and every 10 minutes I wouldn't mind having expensive parking

[@Boopop1024]

First you have to convince Westminister to give them more money to begin with.

[@blacklodgecooper9328]

@@Boopop1024 You guys know that government doesn't pay for anything right? We do.

[@TheScondComming]

Wow Americans no to ''Free'' healthcare, ok with free busses... How come people keep thinking free healthcare exist. Every country with ''free'' healthcare pays for there healthcare with taxes. Its a lot cheaper only because you don't need to go to for profit insurance companies, but the options will be the same, you cant really pay more for better doctor. Though you technically can the difference will not be huge, the only huge difference is the price. A broken arm is like under 200$ Including everything. What does a cast cost in America Sorry just checked, closer to 100 dollars.

[@ster2600]

@@blacklodgecooper9328 Who do you think is paying to repair all the roads, installing traffic lights and roundabouts, gritting when it's cold. Then there's the traffic wardens, parking assistants, police officers to catch dangerous drivers. That's not to mention that if many more people didn't have a car, they would have literally thousands which could be spent on public transport.

[@ster2600]

@@blacklodgecooper9328 what about all the millions we are spending on the NHS to treat people with diabetes who go entire weeks without getting excersise because all they have to do is get into their car?

[@alejandroaranda5254]

I’m from Mexico City and we’re not a good example at all, yes the law was changed for maximum parking lots in new buildings, but public transport it’s a hell of a ride (literally, you feel you’re going to end up there) and parking is free in the vast majority of the city, with only a minimum of city blocks charging a very low fee.

[@eriklakeland3857]

So many millions of new residents added to CDMX during the meteoric rise of the car have really ingrained those issues you spoke about into the city

[@alejandroaranda5254]

@@eriklakeland3857 That and there's a huge favoritism for car usage. For the investment on mobility in the city most of it goes to car usage and a minimum to public transport, even if it means it only helps 20% of the population, that represent drivers. Any new major always makes a new motorway as the crown jewel of their administration.

[@youtubeuserremainsanonymou9022]

doing better than Texas, though. It might be easy to look like an improvement when to the north of Mexico has paved over hellscapes like Houston/DFW

[@Neilarmeweak550]

Japan's doing it right. Better to build a building a multi storey carpark in the space of around 20 car parking spaces for more than 300 cars inside. Its one step backwards but one leap forwards.

[@alapi6180]

It is so incredibly obvious when people have never lived outside of a dense city

[@georgplaz]

Great video! We once had an open lecture at our university talking about this exact same thing. I hadn't considered it before, but yes, if you think about how valuable the land is, there is really no reason to pay so little for parking. In his example he took the average m² price of a flat in that area, multiplied it by the average amount of floors and the resulting prices where vastly higher than the price for parking. This is not how you get people to switch to public transport.. All of this money can be viewed as subsidies towards car owners. It would be interesting to calculate how much money that is for a typical city

[@georgplaz]

@Ralph Masilamani Can you elaborate how my comment was Marxist?

[@adamc5928]

It doesn't add up even by his own numbers. If the cost of a parking space is worth £8000 / 365 days / 16 hours a day then you get a number of £1.37 / hour.

[@MinesAGuinness]

How does calculating parking space in the street at city-centre rental value tell you anything about the price of fish? Are you going to build on the street in the parking bays? And when it comes to car parks themselves and their supposed value, just consider what you are comparing them to - the exorbitant land, rental and property values of city-centre land are themselves arbitrary and unjust, and I resent the well-to-do justifying them (while they salivate over their own inflated property values) and saying I should pay inflated fees for the privilege to use them.

[@georgplaz]

@Ralph Masilamani Right now the government is subsidising cars with giving away parking spaces way cheaper than their market value would be. A true capitalist would want the government to act more "rationally" and not promote people to act certain ways by giving out parking spaces. Both cars and public transport will always have a place in society. But only complaining about public transport being subsidized as it is a "communist" action is a little hypocritical. Also: Yes, I am a socialist and no, I am not a communist. I believe in a greater good we should all work towards and a well regulated market to achieve these goals

[@KINGKING10109]

He’s wrong . You can’t park anywhere I Westminster if you live there. You have to park in one of the 7/8 zones which you’re allocated, and it’s for On street parking, not off street

[@shawnqi1215]

Parking is not meant to earn the city money, it is a service that is offered and provided by the government, just like public transport. Also, $14 per hour IS NOT CHEAP. I don’t know how much this man earns, but that is no where near cheap.

[@tonysoviet3692]

Public transport is public service, because it serves everyone equally. Parking is not, only people with private cars are served. This thinking is detrimental to society.

[@joshuaheffernan4374]

I ride a motorbike, no traffic, free parking everywhere. Low fuel, 40g of c02/km

[@shawnqi1215]

Public transport is not better, in literally any way, and that is why here in Canada, literally no one takes public transport, making it an absolute waste of money

[@applicareinc]

Never once did I hear it mentioned that trades professionals like plumbers, electricians, carpenters, and appliance repair need reasonable parking prices for their commercial vehicles. You raise the parking price for trucks, the additional expense is added to the customers bill, raising the cost of living.

[@toresbe]

But this needs to be contrasted with the fact that enabling those who can to choose public transit, frees up road for those with a genuine need - emergency vehicles, commercial vehicles, etc. Oslo's rush hour is now 30 minutes shorter than it used to be. If you're a trades professional with a vehicle, that alone saves you the cost of parking here. And that's without factoring in the lower occupancy rates from idle cars meaning parking is easier to find.

[@disarmsox]

This guy has obviously never been to Mexico city. Mentions Nottingham - with it's decent tram system as evidence that making parking more difficult or expensive has no effect on the high street. What about all the other towns and cities that don't have an underground or tram system? Self driving cars are a long way off yet. This guy is in a dream world and spends too much time daydreaming.

[@murdoch201]

Government: "The street isn't yours." You're gonna pay those road taxes yourself then?

[@mitchellwalker9839]

Yeah but uk road tax isn’t to do with roads as such. It’s down to how much emissions your car produces. In g/Km

[@i3d3]

@@mitchellwalker9839 UK's road tax is just a tax on road vehicles. If you vehicle is SORN'd, you don't pay. Regardless of what roads you travel, how many miles you travel, how fast or slow you travel, you pay a tax fixed to the emissions class of your on-road vehicle(s). The money doesn't have to be used to maintain roads either. But it is still a fact that roads are maintained with tax money, whatever tax it is. If you pay income taxes, council taxes, road taxes, VAT, etc. you are in fact paying for the public roads, pavements and footpaths.

[@Glocky131]

This whole video and everyone in it is a joke.

[@leew1598]

I agree with this video but I can't see it happening I'm afraid. The UK had a choice, build society around public transport like they've done in much of Scandinavia or build life around the car as they've done in America, it would take a large shift in mentality for it to happen now. Society chose the American way, with their large suburbs and daily commuting. The main difference though is we don't have the wide modern roads they have in their cities, ours are mostly victorian and were never intended for cars. I know people who said it takes 2 hours + some night for them to drive home from work but they still do it. Also if you think the UK is bad then go to Naples, their city layout is largely medieval with these narrow little streets yet they still try to drive up and down them. The whole idea that we're all going to quickly switch to driverless cars is also unlikely too I think. Critics don't seem to understand that people are very possessive about their cars, many people claim to "love" them. They're a social status symbol especially for men and teenagers. They're generally glamourised as well in various films, especially action ones, without showing the reality of traffic.

[@jaycorbin6145]

What about small towns that don’t really have public transport? My “city” of Fishers, IN (used to be a suburb) doesn’t really have any public transport, so every either uses a car, or walks.

[@eriklakeland3857]

Hello from central Indiana. Mayor of Fishers calls Transit the “next horse and buggy” and the Green Line rapid transit project that was studied will never be built because a trail was chosen for the alignment instead. I have mixed feelings about the Green Line but it is clear it offered the best chance for long term public transit in Fishers because it wouldn’t have to compete for space on congested streets and would’ve offered a direct link to downtown Indy that can’t be matched with highways.

[@francisrogers9824]

Small towns can have public transit too. But no one will take it if the surrounding infrastructure is so friendly toward cars. One argument that wasn't mentioned is that parking minimums are unnecessarily high and are based on very little studies. Some are just made up completely (5 spaces per lane for a bowling alley) Because there's so much space for cars, why bother with the bus? But small towns can change there codes and put a maximum number of spaces, or let the businesses themselves decide. Eg, I lived in Kearney, NE and there were many stores that had their lots that were mostly half filled. That extra space is making towns artificially bigger. It's also taking away land that could absorb rain water, but instead, the asphalt is acting as a heat multiplier. Lastly, taxes. Land for parking doesn't make any money, whether that be from property taxes or business taxes. Instead it eats away at city budgets as it forces utility pipes and wires, as well as road construction, to go that bit further even though most of the land they build it for will never make a dime.

[@thehoepproject7768]

Parking prices are kept artificially low by government price capping. It's the opposite of a minimum wage because the parking fees are set at a maximum for most government supplied parking. In a free market without government subsidies, the price of parking would be much much higher. Consider this question. If a parking spot saves 0.25 hours of time (15 minutes) compared to the next best option, Then how much is that parking spot worth to someone who makes $200/hr? Answer the price a seller should charge for parking in a free market without government price ceilings is 0.25hourX$200/hr=$50 for the rich person who makes $200/hr. If they less, then the artificially low price results in too much unmet demand and the driver will have to drive around for 15 minutes waiting for a spot and wasting the money.

[@eagle_and_the_dragon]

If you assume a parking space is £1 an hour. £24 a day. £8760 a year. That's more than the rent you suggested, and at approximately a tenth or so of the real world cost.

[@sam512]

Casually assuming the parking space is used 24/7

[@hotstepper8420]

You're wrong!

[@a88pockets]

his argument is assinine. 8k a year for a spot?!?!? A) you are not parked 24/7/365 B) you have no guarantee of getting this space C) you have no agreement with the city/county/ individual who owns the land and lastly, no one would pay such exorbitant pricing. Also, along with the lines of a subsidy, what do you call parking tickets? A subsidized method by which the city makes more revenue. I am from Pasadena, California home of the world-famous Rose Bowl and Parade and let me tell you how much this city rakes in through permits and parking citations. This from those in the city who can ill afford to get taxed to park their damned automobile. Parking is a racquet, simple as that!

[@MrOiram46]

Not to mention that your car is not guaranteed a decent amount of security while parked there

[@forza223bowe5]

Parking should be free, it’s not like somebody is guarding your car either, most car parks you park at your own risk

[@zbeast]

If I can't park, I won't come... I've turned down jobs when they said there was no easy or cheap parking...

[@lw3646]

Humans were designed to move not to be transported

[@chrisspencer6502]

Please explain Barcelona! where on street parking has been removed in favor of premium below ground parking. Getting people out of cars helps the economy. Parking should be more expensive?! I'm not sure the augment holds true, single level parking is generally unused space. Multi story parking if heavily utilized is a gold mine.

[@31oise]

It's not that simple public transport is down half the time and if everyone relied on it no one would be ever going to work

[@gooseguse]

5:52 Cities Skylines!

[@rugbykliniek]

This was really dumb, whatever your paying for Parking is definitely of more value to the owner than a biking lane, so comparing it to rental space and then at the end saying it can be used for bike lanes is extremely intellectually dishonest

[@Basta11]

For the city, street parking can be turned into green spaces, more sidewalks, alfresco dining, bike lanes or transit lanes. For private property owners, they can use their lots for buildings - commercial, residential, social spaces, whatever.

[@alorisbecker]

Speak up! i can't hear you!

[@EIsGl]

Mexico city is not a great example of correct use of parking spaces and decent public transport, we mexicans suffer a lot for both things. And, the city is a nightmare for pedestrians and bicycle riders

[@elliotpollard9083]

Where's the source for the 2008 study? Edit: here... "Research into the Use and Effectiveness of Maximum Parking Standards "

[@muhammadah6850]

This guys deluded it’s not cheap

[@user-hc5yj4sm7d]

Peak Grauniad. I'll stop driving when the Graun stops printing on dead trees.

[@davemiller7850]

I would like to hear the other side of the story.

[@amandateoh1164]

Well... Singapore and Tokyo got the memo 👀

[@davidrawlins2862]

We all know how miserable public transport can be at rush hour (pre-COVID) imagine if all of the car users were also using public transport... it would be even worse. Best thing to do is invest in infrastructure to support vehicles, not punish normal road users, because their not going away. Charging more only serves to line the pockets of private parking companies.

[@ster2600]

Car transport is miserable at rush hour as well. To even make an argument like this you have to justify why we should fund something like car travel, which is expensive, dangerous, unhealthy and polluting, rather than alternatives which work better for society as a whole.

[@klikbayt]

Maybe we should pay less on rents?

[@internalharm]

i use to pay for parking in california. LOL what a chump I was. Rocky mountain is the place to be..

[@paulhalsall9169]

Proposals like this simply make it easier for the rich to drive and park, whereas the people who can only just afford a car, will be excluded. So, once again, the Guardian is arguing for a policy that helps make things more convenient for the very rich.

[@melom806]

Paul Halsall true. At the same time, it costs less time to travel to central London by underground than a car these days. I'd say what is really worth it is the car sharing schemes. Imagine you could just pick up a car from anywhere, drive where you want, and then leave it for someone else to use.

[@disarmsox]

@@melom806 Wed on't all live in London.

[@oxymoron02]

The Guardian is about as anti-rich as it gets. Let me guess, you probably voted Tory?

[@paulhalsall9169]

@@oxymoron02 I have voted Labour in every general election since 1983 and will do so next time.

[@ASBlueful]

You have a point, but to my mind there is no alternative. One possibility would be to charge depending on the type of car and location. Or just give up parking space altogether and use the free space for businesses and cycling

[@DutchKC9UOD]

Yes charge people 200,000 pounds per year! Get rid of the cars. That is what the UK wants, and what they voted for

[@coolbreez773]

I'm all for better public transport and cycle infrastructure. However a parked car is not polluting! Plus motorists don't just contribute for parking. They pay for road-tax, parking permits MOT, congestion charges, all repairs have VAT and fuel is about 80% tax!

[@bobbyb2725]

COVID threw a wrinkle

[@scottageindustries]

update during covid?

[@isidoreaerys8745]

4:41 OMG. Can someone please tell me the artist responsible for this Sorcery?

[@gabby3888]

What if you can't afford it? Some people need to drive there because there is no public transport or because they live in their car. If you ask me, I think parking with a huge price like $15+/hour is bad. I get saving the environment, but there are other solutions.

[@SilverRook]

..... this is a bad take

[@TheTiaguinho72]

This is an interesting debate that, more often than not, is intoxicated by person's views on what is "the best transport". I believe there isn't one. It isn't cars, it isn't public transport and it surely isn't bikes. Because, in essence, every person has different needs when it comes to transport. As the West becomes increasingly older, options such as bikes are naturally going to become less of a demand. There is a balance to maintain and that is the difficult part. Besides this, we want to free space in the city, but for what really? More offices? To turn normal cities in to even more dense metropolis? What's the point? Cities need to be balanced between accessible center and green and livable suburbs.

[@LaNina_DJ]

Why do you believe that older people cannot use bikes? Cycling actively increases the healthspan, whereas car use reduces our healthspan (by about 10 years, I read somewhere). Could it be that car use is what is reducing people's ability to age healthily?

[@cyffin694]

Going full Vox 😂

[@CycleCalm]

All the people saying "there's no public transport where I live so I have to use a car" seem to not realise that motorbikes exist...

[@chickennuggets1742]

Don't be giving the government any smart ideas

[@Boopop1024]

Discouraging driving and encouraging public transport and sustainable transport would be a very smart idea. Don't worry though, we're entering the 9th year of the fuel duty tax freeze so you can drive your car while contributing to asthma and toxic classroom air nationwide.

[@scribblargh]

@@Boopop1024 I'm always driving my car through classrooms, how did you know!

[@31oise]

@@Boopop1024 again it's not that simple

[@lawfulcorruption]

Land is God given, who owns the Parking Places.

[@boldjawad]

Leave about parking. Wash your face first Mr. Presenter.

[@Molesque71]

Utter Pish! London-centric metropolitan nonsense. What about the 90% of the Uk with rubbish or non existent public transport?

[@Boopop1024]

Surely the answer to that is to invest in better public transport rather than throw our hands in the air and give in to buying polluting motor vehicles?

[@Molesque71]

Tom the Cyclist Yes, but the investment must come first.

[@Hirotoro4692]

@@Molesque71 self driving cars will still free up a lot of space. There's also so few people motorcycling or cycling.

[@inntw4889]

Get on your bike.

[@jonathanbayley1551]

@@Molesque71 But what about fiscal responsibility ay?