WHY people GET MARRIED when they do: dating and game theory

This talk will be a continuation of my previous episode "When are men and women most attractive?" So be sure to listen to that one first. In this episode, I'll be taking some of the results discussed in the peer-reviewed article "Aspirational pursuit of mates in online dating markets" (link below) one step further, namely: by advancing my own hypothesis on why people get married when they do. Given the data on perceived desirability across the lifespan, it makes sense from a game theory perspective that women would push for long-term commitment while the desirability gap still favors them. The data show that this gap switches preference around 30 years of age. Is it just a coincidence that the median age of women at first marriage in the US is 29 years-old?
"Aspirational pursuit of mates in online dating markets": www.science.org/doi/10.1126/s...
Orion is a licensed psychologist in the state of California.
Podcast available of Spotify, Instagram, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts and others.
See the "About" tab for more information on donations and consultations.
Website: oriontarabanpsyd.com
#marriage #dating #relationship

[@psychacks]

This talk will be a continuation of my previous episode "When are men and women most attractive?" So be sure to listen to that one first. In this episode, I'll be taking some of the results discussed in the peer-reviewed article "Aspirational pursuit of mates in online dating markets" (link below) one step further, namely: by advancing my own hypothesis on why people get married when they do. Given the data on perceived desirability across the lifespan, it makes sense from a game theory perspective that women would push for long-term commitment while the desirability gap still favors them. The data show that this gap switches preference around 30 years of age. Is it just a coincidence that the median age of women at first marriage in the US is 29 years-old? "Aspirational pursuit of mates in online dating markets": www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.aap9815 Orion is a licensed psychologist in the state of California. Podcast available of Spotify, Instagram, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts and others. See the "About" tab for more information on donations and consultations. Website: oriontarabanpsyd.com

[@ericephemetherson3964]

If not for her beauty a woman is completely useless.

[@kirbyjoe7484]

In this day and age marriage really seems like a very antiquated notion. Most kids these days are barely bothering to hook up let alone are capable of long-term relationships.

[@Cars1Gunz1and1Weights]

As a 37 year old single male, I noticed this. I look better now than I did at 27. I make over six figures now. I can provide and look good. But I don’t find women today very appealing, except for looks. Most seem to not be feminine and somewhat shallow.

[@synsynsy]

It feels good to use yoir brain and not be blinded by lust anymore. Enjoy! Pick anyone if any...

[@Kenny-Ross]

I'm 41 single for this reason and had to leave the US..."I don’t find women today very appealing, except for looks. Most seem to not be feminine and somewhat shallow."

[@albertodeulofeu5277]

@@Kenny-Ross did you find anyone overseas?

[@Kenny-Ross]

@@albertodeulofeu5277 I'm in Perú working on it. I've only been out of the US for 5 months now.

[@albertodeulofeu5277]

@@Kenny-Ross keep us posted

[@grasies]

I'm a woman and this sounds true. We need more people who speak the truth in the internet! Thanks!

[@ericephemetherson3964]

If not for her beauty a woman is completely useless.

[@kimsmith7212]

Yes,most DON'T speak the truth on the internet

[@sylviaschaffner2551]

I disagree. I dont think this is necessarily 'the truth' on the internet. I m 38 and I generally only find men my age or younger attractive. Sorry to bust your bubble there.

[@thrillseeker988]

Exception rather than rule.

[@jlolson53]

There's also the childbirth issue. Women who want children need to get married while they're still fertile (safely).

[@tomastomas7983]

For sure, that's why we have so many single mothers :D

[@ronnie1638]

To tie down a man …. Not because she wants to be a loving mother… but to literate enslave a man, get fat and disgusting and leave him sexless yet still expect to be treated like a “queen” and say shit like happy wife happy life. Men … wake the hell up!

[@thevcountdown9824]

@@tomastomas7983 lol!!

[@rodan2852]

That will stay single and eventually die alone because their kids wont want to deal with it either

[@prun8893]

52 year old male here. Never been married. One son with whom I've always had a good relationship. I've taken care of him financially. His mother is a good mom. I'm an MD...great income. I go to the gym. I'm kind. I travel. To all the fellas with a good or great income I say this: NEVER GET MARRIED UNLESS THE DIVORCE LAWS CHANGE. I'm very happy and any money that I've given to others has been MY CHOICE. You can have solid relationships with romantic partners without having to put half your assets, your children, and future income at risk. Do not get married....don't let her move in....be kind, honest, and good to women.

[@Steril707]

Listen to this man.

[@leedo9004]

Don’t let her move in why?

[@prun8893]

@@leedo9004 "Common Law Marriage" laws....if they exist where you are. In the USA, you don't even have to be married to be married. It's very dangerous for men.

[@riekabosman7894]

Cant you just agree to a pre nup? Wouldn't that be the answer. and maybe don't marry unless you've spent quite sometime with each other, say 7 -10 yrs...anyway I suppose. Its good to have the conversations, honestly. We really don't have the conversations or have the maturity to be honest with each other, no matter the consequences. A good skill to practice.

[@prun8893]

@@riekabosman7894 A pre nup only protects assets that existed BEFORE the marriage. It will not protect assets that are acquired during the marriage. It also doesn't protect future income (alimony payments....or, as they call it now "spousal support"). It also enables the courts to dictate the level of child support payments which, inevitably, is excessive....the excess being used by the ex-wife as another form of long term, almost permanent, alimony. Date for 10 years, great. Will a woman consent to such an "uncommitted" relationship for that long? Will she demand marriage after 4 years as she sees herself getting older? Does 10 years of great communication guarantee she doesn't find herself "unhappy" in the 11th year? The risk is too great. Putting half of one's life work at stake by signing a one sided legal document is absurd. LOVE keeps people together. MARRIAGE is a business transaction. When she asks for marriage....say NO....move on if you have to.

[@ssing7113]

You’re like grandfather red pill. You display the information without bias and judgement. Just a calm tone is where’s the facts. You guys do with it what you like Love your content and watch every single episode!

[@larryrobx]

Second that! I followed Dr. Taraban's web link yesterday and read the whole study he cited there. You'd think those sophisticated scholar authors would have also thought to overlay their two separate M and F desirability charts in fig.2 as Dr. T. does here in order to achieve the same simple but profound add'l insight he gleans from it.

[@Diarrheagod]

Red pill is not a compliment just saying. U basically just called him a toxic grandpa. To each their own I guess

[@ssing7113]

@@Diarrheagodred pill means understanding the nature of the game, then doing with it what you will Plenty of people who are red pilled in relationships. And now who aren’t taken advantage of. And have the keys to female nature and are now aware of manipulation / games / trickery / lies / deceit and thus can make educated responses Nothing wrong with that one bit. I think you’re confusing red pill with black pill and incel doom.

[@Diarrheagod]

@@ssing7113 yes, this is one way to look at it.

[@codyhenrichs9699]

In the spring of 1975, I fell in love at first sight with a guy in my senior class. We dated all summer but had discussed in the beginning of our dating that since I was reporting for Active duty in the Navy mid fall we would let each other go. In 2010 after 35 years we found each other again. We were both single and just picked up where we left off. We got married August 2023 because it was not financially feaseable until I left the VA. There is no room in our relationship for games or power struggles. We do not fit in the "norm" of a relationship, we enhance each other.

[@WofWca]

I think he always implies "average" in all his videos

[@WofWca]

I think he always implies "average" in all his videos

[@SleepGood11]

Wow🎉❤👍

[@Arthur.Rosario]

So much that I was unaware about human nature. Your talks help me demystify my past. It helped me to stop blaming myself and come to the realization that there is a certain order of things. Certain things were not my fault. Where were you when I was 17 through 30? I just didn't know these things in my youth. Thank you for helping me process.

[@richy3417]

I'm 44, and looking forwards to the good times ahead ;) Knowledge can be power, but it's also happiness. Cheers!

[@venM9]

In my experience, women after 30, become bored, angrier , their maturity level (if they have one) makes them bossy, and sitting across the table ,what i see is not an excited , passionate person that somewhat looks up to me with anticipation. That is a major turn off for me. Why should i even consider her for myself.?

[@Nordic_Sky]

Yep, fat, angry, bitter and bossy. That's what they become. Ugh.

[@alanmacias9284]

Wow, this is the most logic and accurate depiction of the “hitting the wall” phenomenon. You deserve more views and subscribers

[@orsoloro]

100% true. In developping countries, the women value peak is obtained way earlier for many reasons, probably a poorer access to healthacare. Like around 22-25. At 40, many of them look like old ladies. So in those countries you find almost all the women married and having children under 25. It's just a universal law.

[@marktapley7571]

Healthcare has had almost no bearing on lifespan or health span but actually the prime ingredients are a good diet and sanitation. Life expectancy is now going down in almost all countries. Once you account for infant mortality in earlier times, there is almost no difference in lifespan.

[@alejandromadrid8075]

Hmmm "developing countries" is just too vague of a term for your statement to have any truth. Diet, religion, income level, all vary widely. Maybe stop listening to the U.S Department and the propaganda they schew out about other countries in CNN, and othe propaganda outlets. I mean, that way to categorize the world is how the US wants us to categorize the world, but a bit of reflection you suddenly realize its a useless concept, you cant predict anything with it, due to the realities, as mentioned, on the ground.

[@maxdawg]

i love how americans fully believe that our healthcare system is just sooooo much more advanced than other countries. if you travel, you'd KNOW that other countries are NOT as 3rd world in some aspects... and one of them is in providing decent healthcare to their citizens.

[@costincca]

@@maxdawg OK, not US, but Europe. Same high health standards, high arrogance, high "freedom", high independence. I feel this once everybody dies in their 80s, 90s... so much much better life, life expectancy etc. that extend your hope and options.

[@kimsmith7212]

Look LIKE old ladies in THEIR 40's I doubt that

[@fitforfreelance]

That's a great point! I think it's another reason men should focus on their health and business goals to increase their desirability however they can, and to just enjoy life

[@monkibussiness79]

Poor men...I know many who have married at thirty thinking that life is over at that age, when in fact, their attractiveness only increases...by the time they reach 40, many are in unhappy marriages, since they decided to marry due to the pressure of the woman or society, while those late bloomers are in their prime. As an attractive woman close to 40 years old, I would prefer a man of this age a thousand times to choose me, in a more free and rational way, even knowing that my chances are less than those of a 20-something girl. I believe that as it is always said, we should seek to be the most complete and happy people with our own lives, and regardless of age, like-minded people will meet and enjoy their lives much more, with greater experience and wisdom.

[@StrongBodyandMind33]

Very insightful. One one of those “late boomers” you are speaking of. My level of attractiveness and success is 10 fold compared to my 20s…

[@33Jenesis]

I was married for 2 years in my 20’s. He divorced me due to his cheating (I didn’t blame him because he desired to be loved a lot more than I did). I remain single since but I dated, thankfully no marriage was not on the table. I like being single and have my own independence. I am retired now living in a senior park, haven’t dated for over 10 years. Life is peaceful and easy.

[@markiatto_4292]

This is the other side of the coin, ”if you don’t want to lose, just don’t play the game!” But imo there’s much satisfaction and development that comes from the rare good relationships one could have

[@maxdawg]

to not have a personal companion... or kids (assuming), with no dates in 10 years... and assuming no sexual interactions... all sounds like a lot of cope to me. not judging, but women don't usually stand up and scream, "i'm all alone and i'm proud of it."

[@danijelagrujic823]

Absolutely true! Thank you for your effort to deliver powerful truths in a way that many of us can understand.

[@IAmTheEggMan111]

Man you are killing it. Last week you had 26,000 subs. This week, 38,000 subs

[@wisdomandy9361]

You're spot on. The information you've mentioned is a concept that Rollo T has been talking about for nearly 10 years. Well before the research you have was conducted. Interesting stuff.

[@marksule0]

Wow, that makes perfect sense. Thank you for your presentation!

[@oginza]

All true, and makes sense....YET, there are those women w/ rather average looks who seem to have ZERO problems securing men as they get older. They get widowed at 48 and 6 months of grieving later they have their pick (RL story). And, there are those who are supposedly "hot" who always had issues even at their youngest and hottest. I would love to know what exactly is that IT FACTOR that makes the first group so desirable to men at any age. My guess is that is has something to do with how much they love and accept men and masculinity deep down..I could be wrong!

[@heatherheather7107]

I would like to know this too. I can only surmise that men tend to go for women with good social connections or who come from a large family. This supersedes looks in many cases. I have noticed this often. Men after going through a divorce especially at middle age may want to regain connections to community etc to increase their social standing and look less awkward.

[@lucianoemmanuelramirez1304]

less Hot women give more in the bedroom.. i speak from experience dont take this as a generalization, but also know that male friends and colleages agree w this statement

[@Leoo117]

Probably femininity. A feminine woman is simply more attractive to a masculine man. Women that are generally known as "hot" tend to have tons of insecurities that they haven't yet conquered, which prevents them from relaxing in their femininity and causes self-sabotage. The pretty ones seem to suffer more trauma, which creates more insecurities that need to be addressed. Less femininity makes it harder for a masculine man to be with them. Also, very pretty women tend to attract more men that just want to use them for sex, and leave. So they have it harder in some ways. Some women just don't know how to properly vet a man.

[@jaythenihilist4689]

If a woman is young and attractive and still has difficulty getting married, it's simply because she has such high standards that no man can live up to. In the age of social media, there's lots and lots of women like this. They overvalue their desirability to men. If a woman understands her value, then women can get married at any age. The problem is that the same woman who could get any man she wanted when she was 20, by the time she's 30, would have to lower her standards. What some women don't seem to grasp is that the longer they wait out for Mr. Right, the fewer options she will have. Some women may rather stay single than settle for a man she's not thrilled about, which is totally fine.

[@ThisAutomaton]

Men prioritise looks, however, personality is still a big factor. Anecdote: At a recent singles event, the pattern in women's behaviour I notice was that all the plus sized ladies were very friendly and would initiate conversations. On the flip side, most of the average and somewhat attractive women made far less effort in conversation, preferred to stick close to their group of girl friends and had a vague air of haughtiness about them, as if they were better than everyone else in the room. I would anticipate this later group of women to have far more difficulty in securing a man than the first.

[@expatwealthasia8702]

I love your content. You be right, you be wrong. Either way, it’s okay. The most important thing is you are genuine in your message & that’s what I & most others appreciate about you. Thank you & keep up the great content 🙏🤘

[@charliesheen3019]

such a brilliant channel covering interesting topics, thank you!!

[@MathiasFaux]

I would argue that women have societal and biological pressures. Indeed, fertility has an expiration date, but in our society, it takes longer and longer to be trained and have a career. In other words, women are getting married at the last moment of “pick desirability” because they need a career and schooling. In the past, when careers required less schooling, and women were more dependent on men's income, people were getting married earlier - before the end of “pick desirability”. Marrying after 30 for women may impact family plans - it certainly becomes riskier. In other words, I believe get married around 30 not because they are playing blackjack with men, but because they are playing blackjack with an increasingly complex society and their own personal ambitions.

[@roses6564]

Excellent point.

[@brianatbtacprod1989]

The other thing to consider is how many of the women have kids by someone else, and men either don't want a woman with kids, or don't want kids. Despite the Red Pill gurus, not all men want kids. They may want a partner, but not a family. Personally, most of the women I knew when they were in that "prime" age range annoyed me.

[@ab4everunited]

This is absolutely true. And if a girl especially dates jerks in her 20s and ignores the good guys because they aren't "exciting" enough, she ends up damaging herself and ends up being single in her early 30s. And as you explained, a woman's desirability has already decreased and barely any guy would want to date her. So, this woman ends up owning 8-10 cats, living alone, drinking wine and hating men.

[@reginasemenenko148]

I guess that must be why I was able to marry after age 40 to a man three years older. Buteveryone says that's the exception and not the rule. Hmmm.

[@reginasemenenko148]

Lol. OK.

[@MAMP]

Lol yes. I remember some smoking hot girls I knew at age 20 that married a douche bag, have 2 kids, divorced , and now are posting “fake happy” updates with their new boyfriends that come and go once they realize how annoying it is to try to date someone that has kids from another parent.

[@zsuzsuspetals]

Take a closer look. These women WILL end up pregnant and then being a single mom becomes their identity. If they have a son, HE becomes the man in their life. And they will groom him to take care of her. I really hope one day this channel does a series on mother/son enmeshment and emotional incest. It's become a very real problem today. Men are emasculated by their single mothers who claim they don't need a man. If these toxic women only adopted some shelter cats, society wouldn't be in the mess that we're in.

[@AlmaVasquezjr]

The other option is to live with the man you hate, drink wine and have ten cats. No thanks. You get rid of people you hate.

[@user-wi9nn6dz8w]

Please do a follow-up video why men then still decide to marry just before or at the point when the desirability gap closes to zero. If they behaved as rationally as women then they would clearly anticipate that their future wive‘s desirability will inevitably drop and hence not marry her but instead look for a younger wife compared to whom they would still have a positive desirability gap.

[@watamutha]

Probably cuz they're so sick of dating flaky women by that point that they'll take the first good thing that shows up.

[@girishg414]

Naïveté on the part of men gets the better of their rationality- which comes later & is part of the aging like fine wine process.

[@Rustsamurai1]

I was married at 43, to a 27 year old woman. She got in there just in time.

[@DS-jh1bp]

😂

[@TheNgentertainment]

😂😂

[@Rustsamurai1]

@@TheNgentertainment or maybe I did.

[@georgedang449]

@@Rustsamurai1 You both did. I wish you guys a happy life, and that wish will likely come true. Why? At 43, your value is already declining from high at age 38, and this decline matches her own from her high at age 23. You two are declining hand in hand, in tandem. That makes you two a match, and stay a match in value, instead of growing apart. Do you know at what age a girl's desirability on the uptrend matches that of a 30 years old guy, who is also on the uptrend? 14 years old. Do you know at what age girls get married prior to the industrial revolution, when children had to put off marriage because they had to work in factories? 14 years old. For most of human history, girls married at 14 years old, to guys in their 20s and 30s. As they age, their values go up in tandem, peak in tandem, and decline in tandem. Yes, it makes me sound like a pedophile, when all I did is stating historical facts.

[@bossman8698]

​@@georgedang449nothing you stated here is fact mate. A 43 year old man's value is still very high. Didn't you listen to the video?

[@Kenny-Ross]

Loving the content! Thank you!

[@glenndavis1868]

It would be great to have links to the studies you mention in your videos. Love your content. Thank you.

[@moxygenpathogen7678]

Jeez man your channel is about to blow up

[@leviathon2]

Another excellent talk with useful background information.

[@chevy2583]

Great observations, and than you for your bravery!

[@kelschc]

I agree 100% with this as it makes a ton of sense and it’s also been verified (personally) from experience. The 30/29 dynamic has been common with friends. However, it might be worth pointing out that this is an ideal starting point for marriage in the modern world. I feel that coming out of school, we’re only 21. I think both men and women need (at least) ten years of being out in the world and experiencing life before they really understand the commitment and value of having a life partner. Sure, there are outliers but people really want to be established in a career before marrying. Great post!

[@capmidnite]

"I think both men and women need (at least) ten years of being out in the world and experiencing life." Except that with women this "experiencing life" means having countless ONS and travels to places such as Europe. You want a woman with all that "experience"?

[@kelschc]

@@capmidnite well said!

[@StrongBodyandMind33]

Women don’t get the luxury of 10 years. It’s the men who should explore and stay single well into their 30s

[@tomstarwalker]

I got married because I had broken up with my then girlfriend after traveling to see her concluding that I didn't have the resources to pull off an international relationship and another woman poaching me. I divorced her after three months because she expected me to have more resources than I did. That was in my twenties.

[@idesel]

Women basically look for a guy to finesse once they approach 30, hence you should date someone much younger if you are a man and are in your 30s, unless you have a woman who was with you ever since you were both young then you can still be with her on your SMV ascend even though she might be in her 30s too.

[@nateo200]

This is a big dilema for me. I don't want to date a young and stupid girl but I also don't want another mother -_-

[@billcipher3946]

@@nateo200i guess don’t look for a younger dumb girl though lol

[@billcipher3946]

@@nateo200i rather take that choice than dating another mother type girlfriend.

[@idlehourlinda6476]

Your theory rings true, and with time you can see it play out; in any retirement community it's evident that the single women usually outnumber the single men. ( Add to that that the older available men often seek younger women.) All reasons why it behooves women nearing 30 to close the deal if possible. Time is not on her side.

[@joaquin67]

Time is definitely not on their side. But their value is essentially given to them. Vice versa with men. The universe just giving balance is all, lol

[@JAdams-jx5ek]

Upon consideration, I think you are right. Good insight.

[@pescecanella4742]

As a 27-year-old unmarried woman I agree, my way of thinking is very similar to your theory.

[@jeniosk1097]

I think it's more about women having a biological clock for children rather than desirability.

[@user-bv3lr3en2q]

M’en are visual creatures, it’s as simple as younger women being physically more desirable and attractive than older women

[@sam0435]

I’m women in my 30s looks much better now then before 20’s.Most of my friends as well!! because of my daily habits. Long story SHORT only men and women that look good older are those that take care of themselves while they are younger, and continue to take care of themselves by being as healthy as possible. Not a secret!! men don’t automatically age like fine wine. That is a big misconception and women don’t automatically look worst older.

[@bluelagoon5]

Well done, more men need to see this. Subscribed

[@andrewmair7371]

VERY interesting 🤔 Enjoy your work, always well measured & well presented… & does appear to be right on the money here 🎯 Cheers -

[@francoismagne5863]

This is a great find.

[@rupkatham3844]

Truth. This makes perfect sense to most women I'm sure!

[@SkillofAttraction]

Very interesting & I'd say that I have to agree!

[@carlospita6442]

What you doing here coach 😂😂

[@SkillofAttraction]

@@carlospita6442 Just staying on top of things! 😜

[@caucasianafrican1435]

Men have begun to truly understand that marriage is a raw deal.

[@YourManifoldWorld]

So this is another way of saying "women want to have as much fun as possible until they have no choice." Then they pass the responsibility of their "fun times" to the man.

[@xaviermann5996]

This video is a keeper.

[@edwardyoutube]

I'm surprised that men's peak desirability is 50. I would have thought somewhere between 35 and 40 where they have the right balance of resources, looks and the age gap with a young woman is not too extreme.

[@roses6564]

I think men delude themselves with this one. Somehow, there's this wishful thinking that when they reach 50 they will be the desirable equivalent of an 18 yo female. This is not even remotely true. Biology/nature generally favors women more than men, even in grandmotherly form. Civilization favors men. Women are the more biologically valuable gender, especially during their fertility years. The only thing more desirable than women on average, is the top male group, who are the most desirable and relevant for civilization building. The top 10-%20% of men sit at the peak of the human pyramid (men and women together). They say eggs are expensive, sperm is cheap and it's true. What is also true is that prime sperm is priceless. What men fail to understand is that most of them are NOT alpha/top/prime men even though they fancy themselves that way, much like many women scoring a 5 fancy themselves 9s and 10s. If a man is not in the top 10-20th percentile, their desirability is lower than women's on average. Hard pill to swallow.

[@ziggyzag19]

love your videos, great information. One thing this left me wondering is why men get married when they do? This only seemed to address why women get married when they do.

[@nikhilck629]

Most men are naive. They are afraid to stray from the norm.

[@henrypeterkamanda3826]

We get married when we feel we are in a better place to provide and appreciate the institution of marriage better. That explains why it takes time for us men.

[@maxdawg]

@@nikhilck629 yawn. men stormed the beaches of normandy and do dangerous jobs that women would never even consider. yet, women continue to say, "men are afraid." yes, we are afraid but it's not women... it's all the bullshit that comes with dealing with (some) women. walking away and NOT dealing with certain problems isn't fear... it's smart. iow, the "juice isn't worth the squeeze." that does not mean men are afraid of squeezing; it means that getting the juice isn't worth the effort... and it's still gonna be sour.

[@kimsmith7212]

My guess is YOU get married when YOU feel like IT'S time or ABOUT time in YOUR life to start having a family. And you marry a woman who's in her prime fertility and child bearing age. FROM a WOMAN'S prospective

[@SaystheTruth3]

​@@kimsmith7212 go away

[@georgevue8175]

At 63 I look great always took care of myself & I know if I wanted I could have a much younger woman in my life. My once beautiful wife looks like a grandmother & has said Hell no to sex ever since she hit menopause, the hotties I went to high school with old ladies. At a wedding 10 years ago I danced with a high school buddy's daughter, she made it perfectly clear she wanted to see me. My wife is emotionally fragile & needs my presence & because she was so good to me in her prime I will take care of her till death parts us. However I will admit a coworker woman took care of my sexual needs since my wife hit menopause but that ended with the Plandemic & I am searching for a new mistress.

[@metaphysicalfractionals4509]

How old was the coworker woman may I ask?

[@georgevue8175]

@@metaphysicalfractionals4509 My lovely coworker is 17 years younger than me. Her husband is older and has health problems.

[@MrDavinci1965]

I've always heard that multiple studies across cultures showed these ages. Women 23. Men 43.

[@Angell_Lee]

I love this man :)

[@kevingonzalez3673]

Women try to marry right before they hit the wall

[@Girlfriendsandmimosas]

This is good stuff. 👍🏾

[@aaronosborn7395]

Wow very interesting and true now that I’m older I notice this daily

[@borisdodgingbullets]

Isn’t this interesting? I’m a 53 year old male. I make over $200k and have 3 degrees as a business school professor. I have no wife and no kids by choice. I thought, when I turned 40, that I would no longer be desirable as I aged. Then, something strange happened. More and more women in their 20s and 30s began to express interest. My mother broke it down as “You don’t look old. You don’t make a young man’s mistakes. And you have resources.” I thought it was a bit simplistic. You just provided support for her view. “50” is still a bit surprising to me. More men should be armed with this info at an early age. We would (as a collective) make better choices.

[@hufficag]

But you did see men in their 50s, lifelong bachelors, get married to hot sugar tarts in black and white hollywood movies, so it was normal

[@borisdodgingbullets]

@@hufficag Absolutely! :) Nothing wrong with that if you ask me.

[@stevegaines3590]

i agree w/ your theory....

[@Diarrheagod]

There’s no such thing as “securing a commitment”. People ultimately do what they want and if they want to cheat/divorce, then they will. Commitment is a choice.

[@selohcin]

Marriage is a legal commitment. A spouse may cheat on their partner, but if you're a man, there are serious consequences for doing so, both financially and legally. This is why women push for marriage.

[@Diarrheagod]

@@selohcin that must be why married men never cheat.

[@pandhunareswara]

i think the securing commitment is happening deep down inside. just like we cant feel aware of our psychological desire

[@firefily]

There are a lot of interesting ideas on dating and relationships on this channel, but one thing there's almost no discussion is love. How does love figure into dating and relationships?

[@riekabosman7894]

Hmm..I like that question. One thing I like about this guy is that hes sharing the nitty gritty stuff that doesn't usually get exposed. Id rather be brushed up on this knowledge and then go into loving from a more mature perspective. But yea, Id love to hear about his views on love, that would be interesting :) Maybe its just a whole lotta chemical reactions, conditioning from past familiarity, fantastical thinking, projecting into the future and patterns attracted to patterns. I think thats ok as long as we are of this. Id like to hear about the difference between romantic love and other forms of love, are there stages and what are they ;)

[@MAMP]

It doesn’t really exist. That’s why he doesn’t talk about it. Infatuation yes.

[@danieldoca7158]

​@@MAMPreal love is logical not emotional

[@btchiaintkidding7837]

"How does love figure into dating and relationship?" it doesnt, relationship(aka commitment) has nothing to do with love

[@tmyoshimura621]

Ho ho hoooo this is juicy. I’d just like to say that I found the “high desirability” phase of my life to be incredibly empty, and drama filled, due to it being so obvious and overly simplistic. Checkers, if you will. I’m 37 now - and a single mom - and I have to be honest that the “less desirable” phase has positioned me to where I have more leverage when it comes to attaining the goal of being able to test any suitors for how much they’re truly interested in ME, as a partner vs me as an object that lies somewhere on a desirability scale. Deeper psych, more interesting life.

[@roses6564]

Yes. You just need to push up the age range for your pool and accept that many of the good ones have already been snatched. You can try to snatch them back if you think they made a stupid decision early on and they agree too. Good luck.

[@chadguindon6909]

Getting married is absolutely selfish. All you want is companionship, sexual satisfaction and financial security which is the epitome of absolute selfishness to me. It doesn't matter whether you're straight, gay or bisexual, it is still selfish no matter what. I am single/unmarried, over the moon with that decision and I have zero regrets.

[@billcipher3946]

I’m a man and I never had desire to get married and have kids. But if people want to get married and have children they’ll do it. As long as someone doesn’t complain to me, for not getting married and having kids. 😂🎉

[@chadguindon6909]

Every reason to get married is selfish, narcissistic and egotistical. 1. You want someone to complete you 2. You want someone to grow old with 3. You want sexual satisfaction 4. You want financial security 5. You want someone to buy you dinner 6. You want someone to give you gifts 7. You want someone to celebrate holidays with The phrase "I want..." indicates that you are selfish. @@billcipher3946

[@roses6564]

@@chadguindon6909 You should want someone to love. If so, there's no need to marry.

[@SaystheTruth3]

​Rose needs a boyfriend lol

[@josefranco8006]

Love your content. But gotta get a Mic, Sound is a bit low.

[@Seen_not_heard]

If my statistics is as strong as I know it to be. That graph is a little bit off, but mostly accurate . I need to go home and redraw the same graph and figure out why yours is “floating” the way it is.

[@mmoly-cj4bd]

Seems the more I learn about women I can't help but believe Leonardo DiCaprio is the Albert Einstein of relationships.

[@tammy6452]

I love averages for general knowledge but have always noticed some women are arried several times and avoid meeting people and others are never married. They are good guidelines not destiny. I llike to learn more.

[@spirg]

Makes Sense 👍🏻

[@Stringwar]

Very very interesting but i also think its tied to the age couples decide to have children. My mum had me at 22 and got married at 22. Me and my Ex got married when she was 28 and she had our first child at 27. Of my friends, they all got married around the time of the first child Most At 28-30 but one was 24.

[@peterdelacruz8270]

Thanks!

[@BossItUp911]

Whats interesting about this is it flies in the face of divorce statistics. Given their value is declining, why divorce? Based on the information here it is illogical since you're only going to get a worse deal next time. Touch on that?

[@commentarytalk1446]

That's social construction skew: Women would not divorce nearly as much if: 1. They did not get alimony/pay-out from the biological father 2. They did not get state support for having a kid with no husband eg out of wedlock aka baby mamas 3. The society disapproved of divorce because it's negative to society and to the kids in general instead of the propaganda in the West "women can do it all" "single mothers are so brave and powerful!" 4. Women in the West are brought up with antagonistic behaviour that makes them less fit for marriage so they want to marry but end up divorcing more eg more juvenile, more selfish (similar with men). 5. Culture focused more on women as care-givers and home-makers and men as bread-winners thus creating a dynamic that creates mutual dependency instead of stress of 2-income households that's more dysfunctional and makes people less happy due to the economic environment. A good comparison is Western above vs Islamic married couple in the same nation and culture.

[@slimthickaz.]

Glad he said "average" because us who workout as in lift weights look better than some of these 20 year olds.

[@SaystheTruth3]

I bet your face doesn't look better

[@DaveNarn]

Do you address the issue of all the single moms in the dating market? I’ve got grey hair, am in good shape and get hit on a lot by single moms.

[@ericbaxter3944]

The best ROI would be to get married between 37 to 42 to an attractive 23 to 25 year old who has an attractive mother and grandmother. Assuming you are crazy enough to get married in the first place, 😂

[@StrongBodyandMind33]

Great point on the mother and grandmother!

[@goldeneggduck]

Not all are rational players but this does explains things a lot!

[@monikasolymos2396]

I think that women desirability drops after the point they get usualy married, because they give life to children. They sacrifice themsellves for the future of humanity. If husbands don't appreciate this, they are blind and selfish, and yes, usualy they are. One personal perpective: My desirability for my husband was very high with his child in my womb, even if I felt unpretty. I didn't even understood, but it turned him on. Second personal perspective:I always looked younger than my age and I was always a good girl, and it was not good in dating in my youth, but now, I am ahead of many others, who picked the guys that time.

[@roses6564]

Many of the women who selected very young divorce later. Overwhelming empirical evidence is available. The late bloomers/selectors make better decisions overall, although even those are not spared of errors. Regardless, divorce is here to stay so humanity would be better served if it learned how to do it the right way, to accommodate the families created in youth without drama, because it is inevitable going forward. People in prosperous, high-tech societies need fulfillment from their marriages, they don't do it out of desperation - for survival and procreation only. Selection in youth is far from guaranteeing lifelong fulfillment. For most, it's not going to happen, so there will be splits and people need to learn how to go about it the right way.

[@andyyhimself]

Therapy is a female coping mechanism. It allows them to process their emotions. Males cope in other ways like going to the gym or working on their business. As a man, financial and physical gains are more of an upside than talking through your problems. In breakups, men see themselves as inadequate and go to great lengths to cope with it by becoming strong and rich. Just the way things are.

[@emzywillrich7243]

I agree.

[@tomau3946]

Women are most desirable at ae 18, because that represents the peak of their child bearing capabilities. Men are most desirable around age 48, because that's when they are typically at the peak of their careers.

[@metaphysicalfractionals4509]

Cope

[@embro6474]

If that is true then why the average age of first marriage has moved years forward in the past 30 years? Biological desirebility does not change that fast. That would proof that the main assumption is not true.

[@lorrilewis2178]

Bingo! He's not very smart it seems.

[@simply.matias]

It's fascinating how naturally the marriage is on point to peak desirability. But in the past the marriage was earlier on average. So how could we explain that? Just with earlier maturity or maybe worth parents influence over marriage?

[@StrongBodyandMind33]

It is by design

[@annie8742]

For sure!! I’m 41 and set up my dating profile for men between 39 and 52…. But I’ve always been hesitant to even go on a date for someone 39-42 because I know that an attractive man my age or younger is probs attractive to a gal in her 30s. Even just a couple years is hard for me. I feel like I’m pretty secure, but I am practical too and want to make sure that if I find someone I really dig, I know he isn’t gonna be thinking he can find a younger chick… I want to be the younger chick!

[@psychacks]

Absolutely. The best way to prevent your man from lusting after younger women is to be a younger woman. If the age gap is sufficient, his libido will gradually decline in concert with her physically attractiveness. At least in this respect, it's a situation conducive to long-term stability.

[@audrydayes]

@@psychacks May I ask what is the "optimal" age gap between a man and a woman in your opinion?

[@psychacks]

@@audrydayes I depends on the ages of the individuals involved; however, I think 8-12 years is a good window.

[@annie8742]

A couple other thoughts I had about this. I bet that gap in age varies regionally or isn’t as acceptable in areas with specific cultures. Maybe it’s my own preference but I feel like where I’m from, 10+ years is getting up there. The other thing is that the only couple dates I’ve been on where a man posted a slightly younger age (claimed 48 when they were 52) was when they had a reason to justify it, like they were considerably more financially successful than the average. Bugged me at first, but made sense after some processing. They were generally attractive and healthy, but had a seriously posh lifestyle and were being filtered out of the age group of gals they probs would want to share that with. Maybe it’s more common among all men or a coincidence for me, but thought it was interesting.

[@psychacks]

@@annie8742 I'm not sure I understand the anecdote, but men often lie on dating apps to get around women's filters (especially with respect to height).

[@insustentavel]

Do you suppose these numbers reflected only our current geographical e historical period? In traditional societies the first marriage occurs much sooner, around 18 y/o. Would you consider that peak desirability occurs in different periods for both sexes in traditional societies?

[@fritsduursma3029]

I think your content is brilliant. Very intelligent man you are, a joy to listen too.

[@santafilipina9020]

And where are these attractive 50 year old men that the survey speaks of? The ones I see are mostly out of shape, overweight and tired 🤷‍♀️

[@lorrilewis2178]

Right? There is so much delusion here.

[@SixFootofFitness]

Facts 😂

[@COPESLANDmovemaKER]

So if you’re getting her and she’s 27, you’re her 27th.

[@jordielees7808]

A man in his early 30’s who is successful has taken care of himself gained some financial freedom is most likely looking for someone younger than 30

[@MarceloHenriqueAlmeida]

The audio volume is quite low on this one.

[@Nordic_Sky]

It's anecdotal, but in So Cal I'd have to say the curves intersect further out. Well into her 30s, a hot woman will still call the shots. In CA, it's amazing how many average women in their 40s and 50s still think they are 9s and want to deal with men very selectively and only on their own terms. Plus, no matter what relationship they are in, they always feel they could do better, thus making life miserable for their current man who has to deal with her grouchiness, mood swings and constant complaints.

[@tiffanylongboat9280]

I married at 29, I specifically remember thinking “Tiff, you aren’t getting any younger.” 😅

[@Mornepin]

The men value clearly falls at some point, for obvious appearance reasons as you get old. I find the classical redpill chart with the two bell curves more convincing.

[@Sevoflurane2014]

I'm 48 years old and I'm built better now than I was in my '20s. I'm still able to land dates with girls in their '20s and just got out of a 4-year relationship with a girl that started at 24. I was actually going to marry her. She is 28 now and I guess her clock was ticking and I didn't provide the ring quick enough. I'm hoping this video is right and I am more desirable. I have an amazing job and I am stable

[@mossig]

In Sweden, feminism changed this. So now a 45 year old man is not attractive to women any more. A 45 year old women always date younger and it continues as she age. A man now needs to find a younger partner before the age of 35. Or he run the risk of becoming childless. At the age of 50 for a man you have to start looking at senior citizens. Women don't need men's money here.

[@ThisAutomaton]

The part that's missing is that men are not *automatically* more attractive at older age. He must prioritise a healthy life style - being in physical good shape, dressing well and behaving with the confidence that should come to an older man. A lot of older men don't do these things, they let themselves go and look like slobs with a beer gut and dress like overgrown children.

[@metaphysicalfractionals4509]

​@@ThisAutomaton even if you do all of that, its not going to change your aging face or baldness. Sorry, but the creator of Dilbert is a millionaire and in shape and majority of young women are not going to be physically attractive to him, just marry to get his money.

[@SaystheTruth3]

​@metaphysicalfractionals409 yes! Agree

[@dcnole]

This is very interesting. One question I have is causation. Are women marrying just before the desirability intersection out of some innate sense of when their value begins to drop, or does the desirability intersection point exist where it is because that's that's just after the point where women are typically marrying in the local society and men know this? Or, as I suspect, are both happening at the same time? Either way, I'm very confident that there is a relationship between these data metrics. The thing that is clear is that the influence of "child-bearing years" puts a major upper limit influence on female desirability in the eyes of most men, which in turn must heavily influence how late a woman can get married in any society that highly values the concept of monogamous lifelong partnerships. Thus, there seemingly must be a connection between the two data sets. Especially for FIRST marriages.

[@maxdawg]

women know EXACTLY when they're no longer the "hot piece of ass" they used to be. just like men see the younger, hotter, more fertile women... women see those same women too. it becomes SAD & PATHETIC when old(er) women dress provocatively and act like young women in an attempt to REMAIN a young woman to compete for male attention. some know and stop... others keep posting their pix and trying to compete with 25 yr olds. it's really funny. see reddit for example. the lust and desire for male attention starts at 18 for most, but you'll STILL see some 60-70 yr olds trying to find out, "if they still have it."

[@roses6564]

Women marry right at that point bc they hurry up to have children, not because their overall value drops. In fact, for a woman of quality, the value keeps going up, as it does for her male counterpart. If you reduce a woman's value strictly to her ability to have children, then yes, it drops. That would also say a lot about the man who selects a woman strictly on incubator criteria. This is what the mediocre masses of normies do: the men pick women for sex and children, women pick men for resources. Let them have it. People of substance, men and women, select on higher criteria, and the sex/attractiveness/children/resources are a natural consequence, or part of the package, not a goal in itself. Mass is gonna mass.

[@thecurrentmoment]

That's a very interesting graph. Does it also suggest that as a man approaches 40 he is on a level with younger and younger women? Does this manifest in real life pairings?

[@psychacks]

It does suggest that! And that is precisely what we saw for generations in arranged marriages. The successful 40 year-old man with 80 camels and 100 acres of orchards and 200 servants was not matched with "a nice, age-appropriate woman." He was matched with a (by our standards, very) young woman. And one of the principles that governed this matching was that of "fair exchange."

[@thecurrentmoment]

@@psychacks great, now I just need to find some camels

[@Kenny-Ross]

@@psychacks And so a 50 year old man would be a better match with a 20-25 year old girl. Taboo in society but it's a "fair exchange" as you said.

[@ilevxhd8066]

@@Kenny-Ross it’s only taboo because if men notice this then women lose all their power

[@metaphysicalfractionals4509]

​@@psychacks sorry, but you are wrong, if you look at the pew research, large age gap are rare and only with males who hold CONSIDERABLE WEALTH. For the average couple, the age gap is 2-4 years. You have to keep in mind that wealth is what makes an older man attractive and the average income for white males is 50k(much lower for blacks and Hispanics, with only 17%of the male population making 100k or more)but in a world where the majority of women are also making an income, their willingness to settle for an average male will decrease. You have to remember that this is data from dating apps which does not really reflect real life, no attractive woman needs a dating app to find a relationship and if a man's attractiveness was his 40s and 50s then we should see a bunch of old dudes with hot young women but we don't unless she's a sugar baby. Look. I know the red pill grift pays well but you are leading the average male astray. The best thing a male can do is marry by 30-35 to a woman 25-30. Only a few men can pull off getting a fertile woman at age 50, younger yes, but fertile no.

[@FlowerlyF.]

nothing but the truth!

[@stefanbatory3632]

You can also draw the intersection with a phase shift wrt to the man's age. A woman willy marry earlier, if she finds a suitable older man, no?

[@misterx3188]

But people got married much earlier a few decades ago. Has the favorability math changed? Probably not.

[@piotrr5439]

So how does this relate to the issue of not enough babies being born? How is the value relationship different in "underdeveloped" societies where "appropriate" number of kids is born?

[@ash-ti3ml]

Can we align bitcoin smart contract incentives with mate choice game theory incentives. 🤔 what would that look like???

[@imdar3ald3al]

The biggest problem is that men and women don't realize these things. Women tend to overestimate dating value, and men underestimate it.

[@lionlikemessenger]

Great point.

[@roses6564]

The other way around.