Why Perennial Groundcover is Better Compost in the Garden | Dr. Elaine Ingham

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[@sardar5150]

I am one of her students at the Soil Food Web school. Dr. Ingham, she is so cool and she makes herself available to talk to if you have any questions. I have admit she is like a rock star to me!

[@chickentender4037]

So much respect for Dr. Ingham and her astounding work. Thanks for this, Diego. 🥰

[@billyclabough9835]

Needed visuals of these methods

[@annburge291]

Nice podcast. I think you could have pushed Elaine to give more cover crop examples and be a bit more specific. She likes mentioning the exceptions and doesn't like getting boxed into giving advice. I liked how she mentioned that in fertile soils the plants are much bigger. I use this to grow foraging weeds for food. They become less bitter.

[@HomesteadForALiving]

We’ve been looking for good perennial ground covers, thanks!

[@OBRfarm]

You don’t have enough podcasts! More names more more 👍🏿👍🏿

[@charlesbale8376]

I really appreciated the information.

[@culbinator]

You both are legends

[@MMmmmmBobbert]

She’s cool and has some great experience!

[@richstone2627]

Cool, I just got the answer to the question I asked in the comment section of the previous video. I don't remember seeing the info on her web site but I haven't had time to explore it , just skimmed a couple parts. Thank you both.

[@judithmcdonald9001]

There is a difference in my mind between soil coverings (prevent moisture loss, weeds) and soil creation. Since what I have is lots of dead or dying trees, I use huglekultur techniques, burying as much small branches and twigs or using them to line the way and covering with manure and continuing to build this. Toss some red clover or other nitro fixer on top in the fall. After a winter or two, part the top layers, make a hole, add compost or potting mix and add perennials. There are so many wonderful ways to feed the soil

[@dungeonmaster6292]

Do you know anything about nitrogen fixing plants?

[@endoneswa]

​@@dungeonmaster6292white clover, red clover, alfalfa are the best. Lupines for dry area. Go for legumes.

[@UrbanArtCentral]

I live in the tropics and I just started gardening I'm glad to come across this topic and I'm thinking sweet potato. Anything I should know about? Thanks

[@damedesmontagnes]

So which website has this list?

[@JohnnyBoyBurnOne]

The Compost Queen!!! 🍂🌱♻️

[@1voluntaryist]

After 30 years of composting for mulching my annuals I stumbled on a quicker, easier, richer mulch: SHREDDED LEAVES. My neighbors trees dropped too many leaves for her to manage in the fall so I volunteered to "clean up". I bought an electric leaf vac/shredder, 15-1. It came with a canvas bag which I slung over my shoulder, requiring frequent stops to empty. (This would have gone much quicker if I had help from someone pushing a large cart to trap the mulch.) I put the mulch in my 140 sq. foot, raised bed. It slowly, over a few winter months, broke down, leaving dark soil. I will NEVER compost again. Remember: Keep a cover crop, even if it's just weeds. Why? Building soil is done by ROOTS IN THE GROUND. Observe nature, learn, follow. Don't make work by fighting nature or following traditional farming/gardening, e.g., turning over the soil. Does nature plow? Hell no!

[@merinummi9123]

Totally agree with most of the stuff you say, but have to disagree about the plowing. Granted, nature doesn't plow like humans, but nature does plow smaller plots at a time with animals, like pigs looking for food or dogs burying bones. Sepp Holzer (I strongly recommend his books) has a system of using different animals at different times to prepare the soil for planting, something along the lines like chickens for smaller foraging/rummaging, cows for larger, goats eat whatever is left behind and lastly the pigs to turn over the ground (he gave extra motivation for the pigs by throwing little bit of corn or something similar to the ground before letting them loose). NOTICE! That's the order as I remember it at the moment, I'm not recommending to try it as is, but you get the idea (and you can find it accurately from his books).

[@williambryan2804]

Hi Diego. I found this clip very interesting. Enough so my wife and I planted this year's garden with dichondra as a permanent cover crop. The problem we're having is we have some sort of grass (it looks similar to orchard grass if it isn't) coming up at the same time. How would we get the dichondra going before it's over taken by the grass? Thank you, Bill

[@theburnhams2925]

Love the steam punk artifacts, especially that beautiful stove! There IS permanence in this ol' world after all!

[@markislivingdeliberately]

“Wouldn’t consider myself a steampunk fan, but I will admit, it’s the healthiest way to prepare punk.” - norm Macdonald

[@davidsawyer1599]

Thanks Diego for providing these. A couple of things. There is no magic watering can. Not all practices apply to all scenarios. There is something to be learned. It may prove beneficial in the future. Or maybe not.

[@spir5102]

I appreciate the info, but at the end I was still confused. I know there are lots of variables, but could you give the steps to take and my actual garden? Should I plant a cover crop? What type of cover crop? Ground covers? Clover will grow too big.

[@garthwunsch]

I find her methodology so difficult to comprehend. I’ve been gardening for 65 years. No till for 8 years. I can weed 1200 sq ft in five minutes. Can push a 1/8” bamboo stick 18” into my soil with no resistance. Below that is glacial recessional moraine... coarse gravel/boulders cemented together with alluvial clay - hard pan. the bed rock is usually within a foot or less. My brain rejects a gardening methodology that requires a microscope. I think I’m finding JADAM much easier to comprehend. KISS.

[@VanillaAttila]

Jadam seems really interesting. How much work do you find it to be and how much space does it require to brew the teas?

[@garthwunsch]

Attila Banhegyi My 45 year old Canadian garden has been no till for the last 8 years. JADAM is no till. Much less work. I can weed 1200 sq ft in 5 minutes - almost no weeds grow. Dr. Ingham’s weed prescription confuses me... some good in some areas, not others. Perhaps I will figure this out in future, but I’m reticent to let Creeping Jenny loose in my garden. It is super invasive. I had a little bit in one flower bed and it escaped into my lawn - after five years, I think I’ve killed it off! Have used lots of leaf and straw mulch. I think 20 litre pails will make all the fertilizer solutions I need, so not much room is required. Garden water is from 1000 litre rainwater collection tank. Next year I will put a small pump on that (so I don’t have to water by hand) and hook up a siphon hose that will add the required amount of JMS . I can buy these for about $200 CDN, but they will last the rest of my lifetime. Since we have LOTS if winter here - everything freezes for many months, I will have to make new solution each season, or figure out how to store old solution, which Cho says is best. Hope that helps. Where do you garden/farm?

[@melody5437]

@@garthwunsch It confuses me, too. There's a little video on the site that says that weeds thrive on nitrates "unlike other plants," and if you have sufficient beneficial fungi to get your pH under 7, the bacteria that produce the nitrates can't thrive, ergo, no weeds. I'd like someone to explain this to the buttercup that's completely taken over my pretty good soil that hovers between 5.8 and 6.0.

[@garthwunsch]

Mel What confuses me is that I don’t understand her definition of a weed... seems like so long as a plant is growing low enough to not interfere with the desired crop, it’s not a weed. My definition of a weed is any plant growing where I don’t want it. LOL. Like your buttercup, I can’t convince Creeping Jenny to stay put and not creep... it’s in her nature. Sorry Jenny... you gonna die. I know my soil ph is reasonable because I seldom have potato scab. Seems folks have a need to complicate this stuff... I think that’s why I’m drawn to JADAM... “so easy” Have you watched Mr. Cho’s lecture series... about 18 twenty minute lectures?

[@VanillaAttila]

@@garthwunsch Hi Garth thank you for your reply. I'm gardening/farming in Boston Bar, BC. Have tried lots of methods, Hydroponics, low-pressure aeroponics, aquaponics, the Mittleider method, my own method of lazy gardening, I'm really drawn to permaculture, for attracting beneficial insects and also no till for less work but don't have capacity to make so much compost so I use the mittleider fertilizer blend sparringly along with my own compost. I am also drawn to jadam though I need to familiarize myself a bit more. Is the JDS filled with EM1 & EM2 bacterias?

[@joangopin4022]

Hi!, I live just north of Atlanta in a Piedmont environment, long hot summer, extremely short spring and fall, and mild-ish winter. We occasionally get a few inches of snow once or twice a year. There is some bare ground in our yard that is on a slope, and I am worried about soil erosion around the many trees that are growing there. What would be a good ground cover that would help prevent the soil erosion and thrive in the shade? Thanks.

[@rufia75]

Soooo many of the plants on her list will not survive winter in my region (zone 3). Hopefully I can find something. I've been looking.

[@ebradley2306]

Do you recommend growing brassicas in grow bags because of the mycorrhizal fungi issue rather than in a garden bed shared by other vegetables? I garden all year so things finish and are replaced by something else.

[@barbaraburkhardt3047]

Question. We have an interesting succession weed... black jack. It is easily eliminated/ pulled. I have trampled and cardboard covrred for no dig. Wood like yo think it's a good cover crop... btw i am on a tropical island. Nitrogen fixing is imperative.

[@WizardKingMinato]

Would have loved the link to the website she is talking about...

[@johnhargreavesii8181]

A source to find the combination of perennials to cash crops would have so much value for farmers

[@ajb.822]

Yeah, the herbs like she mentioned like thyme, oregano, mints etc. . Or other perennials you can use as animal feeds between seasons or whatever.

[@pratikthomas91]

Would growing grass be considered as a good ground cover to improve soil quality? We had cocoa planted in our farm, would growing Buffalo grass be good ground cover for them?

[@marynunn1708]

Love you both. Such good info. Much appreciated. Here in 7B have found it simply IMPOSSIBLE to keep the bermudagrass out of my garden. Nothing Ive done has slowed it down one bit. Till, no-till, cover crop, cardboard, wood chips, hay mulch, limit watering to drip irrigation,. Feel like the only thing left is to turn the bermudagrass into my perennial cover crop and just plant into it. Any better suggestions?

[@mettamia2008]

I'm in 7B and have completely eliminated bermuda in my yard by applying a 6-8 inch layer of wood chips in the fall. In the spring, dig out any persistent bermuda. This will take some digging, but much less than trying to dig it out without the elimination provided by the mulch. The following year there may be a couple determined sprouts that can usually be pulled out by hand or with minimal digging.

[@paperm2023]

Mint works decently for me

[@KG-if2oc]

Ive always adored dichondra but its a very thirsty option. Doesnt it compete with your veggies too much? As a southern californian, water is always the top issue for home farming. What are good drought tolerant groundcover options? Or perhaps just stick to skipping groundcovers altogether in favor of mulch?

[@codniggh1139]

arachis pintoi

[@LukeJosiah]

Peanut grass might be good?

[@edifying]

Searched her site but cannot seem to find the list she referred to. Does anyone know where more information on perennial cover crops for planting vegetables into can be found. Have done searches but coming up empty handed.

[@edifying]

@@flatsville1 Thanks.

[@1Lightdancer]

I wondered about that as well

[@Norbingel]

@@edifying I can't see the comment you seem to be responding to. Have you found the list

[@edifying]

@@Norbingel The Thanks was something I was doing in advance to anyone who helped me out. No, I have not found the list.

[@emergencyremedialtruth8593]

crimson clover is my choice but also a blend for green manure annuals.

[@VanillaAttila]

Say goodbye to direct sowing with this method.. seems it's tailored to transplants only. Would love to see a visual demonstration. I don't see how it can last indefinitely without additional inputs to the soil without getting deficiencies, especially with the flexible ground cover options. If we look at it with a microscope we should be able to discern ideal ground cover blends. The microclover grew a foot tall in my crap rockpathway too. Stay away from that gimmick. I might try a bed with purslane along with tomato transplants next spring. Zone 5b

[@VanillaAttila]

@@flatsville1 Yeah I see it more useful in a perennial garden not with annuals though. Not going to replant that covercrop as a sheet mulch to prevent weeds. It's not that much work to weed as is if you stay on top of it. And like you said cover crop for winter

[@robclower9606]

I don't understand the worry people have about nutrient deficiencies and gardening. Think about what plants are made of. Firstly between 75-85% is water, the next major things are what? Carbon, nitrogen, both of which the plant pulls from not just the soil but the air. Only tiny amounts of what you're probably worried about developing deficiencies in come only from the soil.

[@mh5783]

Where do I find the list of perennial cover crops that she talks about?

[@Norbingel]

same, can't find it

[@kylesweogard5013]

Why so little of Elaine Ingraham, she's the Best!!!

[@DiegoFooter]

You can listen to the full interview on my other channel - In Search of Soil. :)

[@Adnancorner]

pearl millets ?

[@this-abledtheextravertedhe5299]

😆❤️ #SaveSoil

[@cauliflower71]

Has anyone found her link to her list of ground covers?

[@inigomontoya8943]

No I looked like crazy for it.

[@Not_So_Weird_in_Austin]

I dont think central texas has growing conditions allowing perenial low cover crops

[@waohe]

Has anyone tried this succesfully or unsuccessfully? Diego, are you perhaps planning an experiment? Would be nice to see some real life results :)

[@DiegoFooter]

Trying with clover. 🍀

[@deepakbhanushali8795]

@@DiegoFooter can you share a video how it turned out?

[@deinse82]

Great interview. Listened to the whole thing, and I learned a lot. But I wish you would've pushed back some more on the whole "perennial cover" thing. Yes, sure, it's the "lazy" method if you're growing food in a small garden, for yourself, and hand planting everything you grow. Or maybe even on some farms, I don't know. But it's not less work in an intensive market garden. In fact it doesn't work on a that scale, period, because you can't use all the equipment (seeders, paper pot transplanter, harvester etc.), and planting by hand, in-between the mulch, is not competitive. For a scientist to flat out refuse to acknowledge that her technology-related advice (in other words, advice that has nothing to do with her expertise: science) isn't universally applicable, is quite ridiculous. She should've answered your questions about constructing systems which don't use living cover, instead of constantly going back to that one solution. Not to say that the idea doesn't have value. In fact, if the living cover thing really works as well as she said it does, it could be implemented on the ultra-large scale to grow any crops, with robots. But that would require massive funding and years of research and development before a single crop is grown. But it is doable. Conventional ag is already developing autonomous robots which can target individual plants. They're targeting them to pump various chemicals into them (herbicide on the weeds, fertilizer and pesticides on the crops), but mechanical weeding and planting is just as doable.

[@julieheath6335]

There is at least one company (Greenfield??) that IS working on weeding without chemicals. They target the tiny emergent weeds with a laser. Zap!

[@jacobclark89]

The domino efect of all this is unreal . How many people over eat for the lack of nutriction in the food ? How many health conditions ? Most people in America dont even know what a tomato is suposed to taste like ! and in general if they had better quililty they would eat the stuff they are suposed too in order to have a balanced diet .like salad .

[@lorrainegatanianhits8331]

4:40 This is not true at all. Yes, in really good soils, weeds are less of a problem but as long as there is space unoccupied a weed will fill that gap, no matter how good the soil is. The idea that weeds are not healthy in good soil is also completely wrong. Yes, some weeds don't grow better in good soil, as they would in bad soils but they certainly don't grow worse. Take Urtica dioica (Stinging nettle) for example, it grows well in reasonably good garden soils, but it grows much better in very good soils. My stinging nettles grow to almost 2 meters next to my compost pile. Same goes for Aegopodium podagraria (Ground Elder), Glechoma hederacea (Ground Ivy) and many more. Furthermore, tree seedlings are popping up all over the place in good soils. That's because good soils resemble forest soils, therefore pioneer trees start to grow there. Elaine Ingham has to start studying phytosociology. That's where you learn that most weeds encountered in humid temperate regions are actually adapted to very high nutrient level (Eutrophs). Take Echinochloa crus-galli (common barnyard grass) for example, that grows under very high-nutrient conditions, whether it's in bad soils or good soils. As long as there are a lot of nutrients it will grow and nearly all soils in humid temperate climates are nutrient rich.

[@stuff8119]

Neither... The answer? Woodchip.

[@thisisthewronghat2706]

No slugs as well

[@cemalyilmaz377]