Why Pets Are The New Political Flashpoint

[@foshizol]

I don't have fur-babies, so I refer to my children as skin-dogs.

[@rafaelalodio5116]

That sounds metal as fuck

[@RazeAVillage]

This comment wins, hands down. :)

[@allenmontrasio8962]

You win 😂

[@Watch-0w1]

Then what are you?

[@Casperski1312]

"pet ownership, like any form of identity, is ripe for commoditization under neoliberalism" What ISNT commodified under neoliberalism?

[@captainroberts6318]

It's both amusing and depressing that oposition to neoliberalism and capitalism can be commodified by them.

[@oopsy444]

True socialism and worker ownership of assets

[@caiden3396]

Human poop is commodified. Microbes too. And genetic material.

[@geekgroupie42]

@@oopsy444 ✊🚩

[@RictusHolloweye]

@@oopsy444 - Sooner of later we'll see corporations trying to market their socialist bonafides the same way they do with performative LGBT allyship or anti-sexism messages in their commercials.

[@seattlekarim964]

The HUGE difference between pet parent and human parent is your trying to raise a Human to become an independent adult. Something both parents seem to forget.

[@cosmicjellyf1sh]

BINGO

[@nuclearcatbaby1131]

In that case I used to be somebody's pet human.

[@yucol5661]

@@nuclearcatbaby1131yes? Did you think babies, children, and even teens get threaten like regular people? Even legally they aren’t their own person, it’s always done in a situation they depend on someone else. No autonomy or many of the things we see in people that differentiate them for animals.

[@nuclearcatbaby1131]

@@yucol5661 My foster parent tried to get me put under conservatorship

[@etiennesickleton1483]

@seattlekarim964 It's you're, Mr. Genius parenting expert.

[@baba_beda]

i recently got a dog to reduce my loneliness. it didn't really help as much as my loneliness is still a craving of human contact, but made me feel a bit more content. as a side note, so many people are now happy to talk to me when we're on our walks, it's crazy how much more attention an animal gets than a person taking care of it.

[@tross-lj2eb]

if you see a stranger walking a dog, the dog is much less likely to have voted a fascist into office. This makes the dog more approachable.

[@Devon686]

I named my dog Nietzsche because she is in a constant state of existential anxiety.

[@leftielori1312]

I was too poor to have children. I refused to raise a child in the poverty I was raised in. My dogs are the only reason I'm alive.

[@-N0V4-]

Same. I've been facing backlash as I get older. I've never even had a problem with adopting when I'm ready but naaaaah- it's gotta be a fight with the family.

[@jingleinthedark92]

You could always try not being so poor, maybe seek gainful employment, or just recognize that poverty or not having kids is the ultimate goal of being alive. Dogs aren't children, and are only going to look like you needed a crutch to compensate for not being able to do the one and only thing that you had to do for your existence to have mattered. It is a good excuse for not being able to pair bond, using your income is a very incel thing to justify a lack of capitulation from the opposite sex. Same with degeneracy being used as an excuse to not even pursue real love in the first place - opting to prey on the same sex as a manifestation of perpetual immaturity and mental illness.

[@tricial9779]

My exact story. Poverty and an active decision to remain childless to avoid exposing another human being to the soul crushing effects of poverty. We differ only on the obvious superiority of cats as family and companions over any of those icky dogs.

[@Tabby3456]

"I would watch cities burn for you" "I would do genocides for you" Dog: (please don't)

[@RazeAVillage]

Someone saying that to their dog on tiktok is click bait, trolling, or hyperbole. I've said stuff like that to my cat w/o actually meaning it... well... not THAT but still, stuff that's hyperbole. I knew my cat didn't understand. I think treating that video as a piece of evidence for making the case that our obsession w/ pets diminishes our human empathy was ridiculous. That said... like wtf lady? LOL Pretty weird things to record yourself saying to a dog.

[@allenmontrasio8962]

Talk about a dogwhistle

[@alexbarriga983]

got the exact same vibe from that dog lmao

[@Sephiroth144]

Cat: LET'S GO ALREEEEADY

[@Watch-0w1]

​@@RazeAVillageI think it's a come dy skit

[@troperhghar9898]

Hank Hill's love for ladybird really explains why people infantalize their pets; the people can project love out at their pet that they can't release anywhere else for social reasons

[@timothysatyr6674]

🤣😂 Or people can just simply love something The more time you spend with things, the more you typically bond

[@Newton-Reuther]

Or you could love other people in your life.

[@buttersleopaldstoch5793]

You could do that or you could just not. If you need to being met then what's the problem?

[@MrsBobMom]

Yes! I know exactly what you mean. Hank Hill is too reserved and feels too awkward about expressing emotions to people in his life but his love for Ladybird is simple and requires no drawn out emotionally charged discussion. It just...is.

[@alexbarriga983]

growing up with a dad like cotton tends to have that effect on people

[@unsupporteddevice]

multiple family members have told me they love my dog more than they love me. which is fair tbh, shes much more sociable and bites less

[@bw9382]

Holy moly the last part lol.

[@laurencewinch-furness9450]

"I would support your right to bear pets" "What about my right to pet bears?"

[@darwinskeeper421]

I would support your right to pet bears, but heartily suggest you don't exercise that right.

[@ilovemesomme]

I can't call myself a dog father. Can't do it, won't do it. I'm Odysseus, and my dog is Argos. That's that.

[@captainroberts6318]

@@ilovemesomme what about the Doggfather?

[@lenoralee9553]

Argos is best boi.

[@CommanderNewton]

you leave him for two to three decades then come back, let him sniff your hand, and then he dies?

[@bw9382]

Does this “Argos” have a human family it’s protecting for you?

[@lenoralee9553]

@@bw9382 Penelope and Telemachus

[@Sinuo13]

i reject this idea that pets exist as a surrogate for children. i don't want children, i never have wanted children, i have neither the resources nor the desire to raise a child. i have a couple cats because theyre cute and because taking care of them provides a bit of structure.

[@YamiHoOu]

God yes! I have never wanted kids but I love cats. And I won't lie, I like how cats are mostly independent, I don't want a dog because they require more direct attention, and children require basically non stop attention so... I call my cat a baby etc as a joke but I would never consider myself an actual parent lol

[@kylenorthington2647]

nailed it

[@eon6274]

I agree, it's certainly more of a companionship. When I got a puppy it was way more exhausting for the first months than I expected. Worrying about where she was or what she would be getting into. She'd constantly be tearing random things up - RIP grandma's massage chair, a family photo, several hdmi cords, and any shoe that was close to the ground. At around the same time my sister had a baby so I got to see them grow up for a bit together. I sure felt some sort of parental stress that we could relate with at the beginning because of how they'd get into something the second you took your eye off them. While I did a lot of standing outside in the snow trying to potty train the puppy every other hour and constantly cleaning up accidents on the carpet, there was a clear point where the baby surpassed the dog in responsibility. My dog is an adult now and while I think it's cute I got to dress her as a hotdog for Halloween, I'm certainly not jealous of my sister still changing diapers/potty training. She must get the stroller, the stocked baby bag, and whatever else to leave the house, while I can quickly gear my dog up and have a companion to walk the hiking trails with. The baby still has awhile to go.

[@Emiliapocalypse]

Hard agree from me!! I call my dog my baby, and my child, and I’m his mama but it’s absolutely clearly a joke because of how I treat him with such kid gloves and it’s about expressing my depth of love for him. He’s absolutely not my child, and I’m not his parent. Being a parent to a human is a totally different thing, and I’m glad every day that I’m not one. We’re buddies and he’s so gosh darn cute, and I’m so glad he hasn’t learned to talk (and reveal uncomfortable secrets like my four year old niece 🤣) or ask me to borrow the car (yet). Everyone around me knows how badly I DON’T want kids, and if having dogs was more like raising actual children I definitely wouldn’t want one. Good thing that there’s other people wanting to take on the mantle of parenthood though, cause that responsibility is just too heavy for me! ❤😅

[@AutumnSzn2018]

Agreed. I just got a cat because I wanted to have a pet. Not much more to it than that. For once, I think Wisecrack might be overanalyzing it.

[@Zbeastie]

About the empathy for human people part. I think people who think/ talk down on human people for whatever reason (homelessness, poverty, different race/ culture, etc) they already have a disdain for human people regardless of if they're pet people or not. Like getting a dog doesn't make you automatically racist or something (section referring to pitties and certain communities). That ish was already there, and they're just using pets as a convenient excuse. 😅

[@YOSSARIAN313]

If someone tries to build a new animal shelter no one cares. If someone tries to build housing minimum wage workers can afford every NIMBY loses their mind.

[@luroluroluro]

@@YOSSARIAN313yes it’s true that people are usually very disemphatic and disrespectful towards homeless people but I don’t understand how putting the blame towards “pets parents” is doing any favor to the cause in the sense that there is no correlation. I also agree with Zbeastie.

[@sorensorensen9567]

Exactly. Having dogs didn't make me dislike people, I already disliked the overwhelming majority of people way before I got a dog lol It's people and how they act that prevents me from liking and having empathy for most people...

[@Zbeastie]

@sorensorensen9567 I hear you! At least you know/ have an idea of what you're getting into when it comes to pets and animals in general. They're usually pretty straightforward. And if there are issues, it's mostly a interspecies communication problem. 😅

[@Roberts1171]

​@@luroluroluro I agree. I personally have a much larger gripe with moderate/reactionary vegans/vegetarians. Especially the super preachy types. Like we should radically change our consumption habits and do all these things..... Not to help the literal people freezing to death in the streets but for the animals that they either subconsciously or consciously put above suffering humans. It has always rubbed me the wrong way.

[@criminalclassfan]

THIS IS THE WORST TAKE OF ALL TIME (My cat is standing behind me)

[@foolishlyfoolhardy6004]

I work in animal welfare, and anthropomorphising animals is not necessarily a good thing for them - for a multitude of reasons that youtube would delete my comment for trying to discuss. People obviously have really close bonds with their pets, and I'm not going to say that's a bad thing or anything, but there's a point at which humanising them becomes detrimental - and there's lots of stuff on social media that people emulate that has me gritting my teeth. I'm glad people love their pets. I love mine too, just spent a small fortune on his health - I don't think of myself as a parent, but that's a personal preference, if that's how you want to refer to yourself then power to you. But they are animals at the end of the day. They are unique individuals with unique needs, and there's a point where you are not meeting those needs by treating them as children/humans. Also you don't need all these fancy products - I get it though, I went on a spree when I was younger and fostering animals, so I'm not going to judge someone - but i have spent the last few years becoming more mindful of my purchasing behaviours, and I hope we all learn this. You and your pets don't need all this stuff, i promise.

[@YamiHoOu]

It does bother me when I see people dressing their animals. Like just let them be.

[@pdzombie1906]

César Millan always said it in his show: treating dogs like humans is a form of abuse!

[@foolishlyfoolhardy6004]

@pdzombie1906 you mean the man who got f!ned (and should've been ja!led) for animal abvse? That guy? He has sent dog tra!ning back decades!. He doesn't tra!n dogs he abvses them and creates t!cking t!meb0mbs. More than one of the dogs he has "tra!ned" went on to have a ser!ous b!ting inc!dent - which was completely pr*dictable to anyone who knows anything about dogs. He's a f00l and everyone brought into it, he's done so much d*mage. His "methods" are much w0rse than anyone who is a bit overze,alous in treating their dog like a human. He's the only abvser here. S!ckening that you think my comment is in support of a person like him.

[@foolishlyfoolhardy6004]

@pdzombie1906 the charged animal ab*ser? Him? If you think that's what I'm getting at - that dogs need to be d0m!nated and p*n!shed for normal behaviours - then you've completely mi,ssed the point. Just like dogs are not human, we are not dogs - you are not your dogs "pack leader" He set views on dog behaviour well back and has created countless t!ck!ng t!meb*mbs using his practices. He is the ab*ser, not the people who take human!sing their pets a bit too far.

[@foolishlyfoolhardy6004]

@pdzombie1906 the cha,rged animal ab*ser? Him? If you think that's what I'm get,ting at - that animals need to be d0m!na,thated and p*n!shed for normal behaviours - then you've mi,ssed the point. Just like dogs are not human, we are not dogs - you are not your dogs' "pack leader" He set views on dog behaviour well back and has created coun,tless t!ck!ng t!meb*mbs using his practices. Many dogs trained by him went on to have ser*ous incidents. He is the ab*ser, not the people who take hum,an!sing their pets a bit too far..

[@MrViews-ij3tx]

The situation in which people see a homeless person with a dog and then say 'oh that poor dog living on the cold streets' has always driven me mad. I know so many people who think like this. All the care in the world for an animal, but zero compassion for their fellow human.

[@arturouribebertolotti1169]

or maybe they blame the homeless for the dog's condition when probably the guy (or women or enby) just adopted it from the streets while the critics just buy "high breed" dogs

[@DrumForte]

Remember the logic that goes into this conclusion: the homeless man is human, therefore has control over his circumstances, therefore allowed homelessness to happen to him. The dog is an animal, therefore does not conciously influence the trajectory of its own life beyond starving or living, therefore is undeserving of its current standard of living. This is how a lot of people who are fortunate and well off think. It becomes less infuriating and more of a goal to change when you break down their manner of thinking.

[@MrViews-ij3tx]

@@DrumForte I know why they think like this. Understanding this, still makes it not any better. And you say it yourself, the thought of the homeless Person „being in Control of their Situation“ is the dehumanizing Act itself.

[@Aftenx]

Idoi** D**bf**ks think this way

[@AmberFrmThVaultGaming]

The idea that the animal is helpless and suffering against their will but that people who are helpless and suffering are at fault due to a moral failing is wild. I've never been on the street, but I know just in my little charmed life I've faced challenges that weren't my fault. Why would it be any different for someone else? Blows my mind people don't understand that.

[@silviaconsonni586]

"apparently the dogs would ruin the floors... Never mind my child uses crayons on it" 😂😂😂

[@BrentWigginsWords]

Parading your pets or kids online treats them like objects or trophies no one else won. It inadvertently causes jealous-fueled competition for parental status that shouldn't be a matter of status at all. A pet is a pet and a kid is a kid. Love them both, not one more than another or one over another.

[@Gardenlessbirb]

The opening bit of this episode was the single most “old man yells at cloud” bit I’ve heard from you yet.

[@DerrickHills-b8z]

*Hallelujah!!! I'm the favorite, $60,000 every week! Now I can afford anything and also support the work of God and the church.*

[@MarcusLiam-h7e]

Oh really? Tell us more! Always interested in hearing stories of successes.

[@DerrickHills-b8z]

This is what Guinevere Ann Toste does, she has changed my life. After raising up to 60k trading with her, I bought a new house and car here in the US and also paid for my son's (Oscar) surgery. Glory to God.shalom.

[@DrewColeman-r2j]

I know Guinevere Ann Toste, and I have also had success...

[@StephanieCanolia]

Absolutely! I have heard stories of people who started with little or no knowledge but managed to emerge victorious thanks to Guinevere Ann Toste

[@MartinWhitman-g1z]

Wow, that's inspiring. How can I contact Guinevere Ann Toste?

[@me_boone]

Whoa, people make their fridges fancy like that? That's dumb as hell.

[@allenmontrasio8962]

Can TikTokkers be categorized as "people", though?

[@Emiliapocalypse]

@@allenmontrasio8962 they’re sort of a phylum unto themselves

[@andthentherewasyou]

As I was watching this video, my fur-baby came up to me and stood up on my chest and started barking and licking me as if to say “don’t listen to them!”. This to say, my dog disagrees completely with this video.

[@AlbertKamut]

People use parental parlance for animal ownership but I feel like it’s more kitsch type language as opposed to pets as surrogate children. I don’t know that dehumanization occurs from having companion animals. But I do like your take on the issue of parenting being the ultimate goal for a quality life. I like the idea that animal companionship is intrinsic to being human. Documentation of a personal bond between a human and animal has long been existed. I appreciate your take on the pet parenting and consumption. I do wish we would take that money and use it to help end animal neglect and abuse.

[@amandacoelho9524]

I think the video misses the point that for women it is not worth the costs and efforts of bearing and raising children. Most of us have better education and aim for better jobs and unfortunately single income households aren’t achievable anymore. I hope they stop blaming us cat ladies for societal downfall because the world was already fucked before us

[@ellicel]

I think the point is that we shouldn’t have gotten all these grandiose ideas about getting an education, a job, and personal fulfillment outside of the kitchen. We’re guilty of selfishly thinking of our own needs instead of relying on a man for guidance/financial stability never mind the fact that they’re just going to trade us in around age 50 for the newer model. But that’s ok because according to Vance, older women are only useful as babysitters for the grandkids. Sign me up!

[@bw9382]

I think there’s a weird expectation that has logic based on the wage decline since women joined the work force, that you can just put the genie back in the bottle and if women just stop working and go back to the kitchen the economy will be great and the inequality will be gone which is obviously absurd.

[@amandacoelho9524]

@@bw9382 exactly! Pretty much 99% of women can’t choose not to work anymore

[@jessica_swan]

Why is it expected of pet parents without kids to support fellow humans in need? What about those WITH kids? How about we all support other humans in need and stop judging each other for the choices we make in life?

[@DrakenstormXIII]

i could be described as a dog dad, I just found that there was a litter near by, Tthe puppy was going to be adopted by someone so i chose to take care of him, I see the adoption as a promise to care for the creature to the best of my ability. It is my responsibility to keep him safe and healthy and in return he gives me companionship. The stats about dehuamising people are frightening though, i beleive there is a responsibility to help everyone that can be helped. i imagine one of the reasons is pets can't be responsible for themselves but some people will blame a person for being homeless even if the conditions that brought them to homelessness were out of their control. It's no excuse either way. The commodification stuff is just not something i engage in at all, i don't tend to publish and social media posts beyond comments, if i take a picture of my dog it's to look at it later myself. I think that taking more quality care of pets is good and that they can be part of the family, if i remember correctly i saw an epitaph for a dog once that said that while not a human, it was human enough to be a source of comfort in hours of great pain, so i think there's a question to asked what does it mean to be a family member and can a dog or a cat effectively fill that role. Edit: Further I wonder what exactly separates a good pet owner to a pet parent? Is it because I let my dog inside? Or get him a slightly bigger biscuit on his birthday? what makes the difference?

[@mob999]

We could also reject the dichotomy that it's either "owner" or "parent." We could be pet guardians, for example. We give our animals agency, we ask them for consent when it comes to pets and interactions, we don't treat them like tools, we allow them to communicate their needs and meet those needs instead of only treating them in ways that are convenient to us. We "own" our pets in a legal sense, and we are responsible for their lives and safety like parents, but ideally, we also provide them happiness and an environment that allows them to thrive. We can opt for a better descriptor.

[@arturouribebertolotti1169]

The social media stuff is not criticized at the individual level, he's making an analysis at the social level. I think the problem is the "humanization" part, because it looks like you have to humanize an animal to love them or be proud of it. The worst case of this is the selective breeding, but i will say that buying accesories for the pet (unless is useful for a disadvantage someone or their pet have) is one example, although less evil. I've seen many people, mostly on high class neighbourhoods, that put accesories to their dogs even if it is something the animal doesn't want, care or even be detrimental to them. For example, many dogs with clothes even in hot days. Is like, you need to turn it more in to a human to truly love your pet instead like them as their nature.

[@sarahclark9705]

As both an autistic person and an animal assisted therapist and someone who trolled herself into witchcraft - my dog is a therapy tool both personally and professionally, and familiars or soul mates... as a divorced, childless 32 year old woman (who wants bio kids) they are also a reason to have my shit together because they need me to be the adult/human/master/pack leader...

[@TheSeaPoly-u6s]

how did you troll yourself into witchcraft?

[@HappyASScreatures]

I hear you. When I am shut down I still take care of my animals. My ass, donkey, demands attention and is very loud about it.

[@Emiliapocalypse]

@@TheSeaPoly-u6s thank you for asking the follow-up question I came to find the answer to

[@brendalong3852]

Won't say this isn't true but I don't think the majority of pet owners are this way. Most of us just like and want the companionship.

[@mpetrison3799]

Of course. But then you don't need to find other humans to care about. And likewise, others involved in surrogate activities don't need to care about _you._

[@themasterofinfinity]

​@mpetrison3799 that a giant leap.in logic.from wanting companion ship to saying okay I'm good so now I'll never be ci paionate again. Their is study after study that shows it's easier to be compassionate from a place of well being.

[@deadhead4077]

Im a little disappointed in this video, didnt once look at the material conditions that might prevent a couple from pursing having children, or the current climate after roe v wade was repealed. Theres real fears women have about possibly dying from child birth from lack of access to safe abortions. Not to mention massively increasing cost of living or the totally absurd housing market.

[@deadhead4077]

Giving another listen cause maybe I missed something but idk man.

[@BDnevernind]

But wait didn't you hear pets are quintessential to neoliberalism and pet ownership is participating in the spectacle?! See he got to do the usual rhetoric to shame people who don't participate in the neoliberal spectacle behind natalist ideology.

[@deadhead4077]

@@BDnevernind I def think there's some massive local biases on display, as the office is based out of LA and this might be a lot more relevant for people there. I don't know anyone in my life who made a social media profile for their pet or try to capitalize off their postings Sure I see a bunch of different profiles on my reelz and enjoy a pet video every now and then, but I don't think you can base the average pet owner off of people who go to Pet con or live in the LA influencer bubble. I had no idea there were conventions for pets and I doubt anyone who goes to those events would be considered normal behavior.

[@BDnevernind]

@deadhead4077 I did once stumbled upon a the beginnings of a Greyhound convention. After seeing the fourth one I had to ask if I had stepped into a bizarro world. But yeah I imagine living in LA makes one's perspective pretty cockeyed. I didn't even know this was THE new political flashpoint. Thanks Crackpot or whatever channel this is.

[@GAHAHAHH]

So instead of donating what money they have to a worthy cause or volunteering for the community or just participating in public child care activities people who can't afford to have children are expected to waste their desires to do good and what little surplus money they have on something as superfluous and selfish as owning an animal that doesn't even want to be looked after in such a way? Maybe you are right not addressing this sort of "reasoning" is a flaw in the video but keep in mind people are already acting very hostile towards him and I don't think they would take to kindly to suggestions or alternatives, case in point you are probably preparing some sort of "counter argument" to my suggestions. I can't even afford to have a pet, not that I would want one but what I would do to have that amount of free time and money that these other people seem to have.

[@Yeargdribble]

I find it striking just how combative actual parents get about this. I know my cats aren't kids, but they also bring me and my wife a lot of fulfillment at a much lower cost (monetarily and otherwise). I often feel that real parents are angry or jealous that we can have some fraction of the upsides but with waaay less of the downsides....like we should have to suffer more to enjoy that privilege.

[@arcturionblade1077]

It's funny that another poster wrote expressing the view that pet owners (who don't have kids) tend to hate people (exhibiting misanthropic and antisocial tendencies). I'll admit that my wife don't have kids but we do have two dogs that we love to bits, and we are indeed antisocial homebodies overall (but still socialize every now and then with close friends only). It's deeper than just pet parents versus child parents. The corporate elite want their wage sl@ve working class as a continuous source of cheap labor. It's why we're seeing legislation against @bortion and women's healthcare services, on top of attacks against no-fault divorces. They want us (well, certain races of people, at least) to have babies (whether we want them or not) to keep the subservient worker class going (that all important 2.3 children to sustain population growth that capitalism demands for its consumers). The corporate elite monopolizes the vast majority of our time on earth and most people get paid peanut wages that have not kept up with inflation in decades. People increasingly cannot afford homes much less to start a family if they're married at all. Pets are a much cheaper alternative than children but it's a bandaid on larger systemic problems with the way modern capitalist societies are currently set up. It's little wonder that more recent generations raised on TikTok and can't afford houses or families, taking solace in pets, hate their fellow humans (rise in misanthropic and antisocial tendencies). I'm Gen X and my wife is Millennial, and we can't bear the thought of bringing children into this messed up world with an uncertain future.

[@Lisa-Simpson-i3i]

⁠ blunt truth, couldn't have said it better myself (also a genX & Y couple, dogs but no kids by choice). It all sounds so harsh when you pull back the curtain, i can understand why people immersed in it would rather dismiss the true motives as cynical paranoia... but its important. Truly examining these deeper issues, having ugly uncomfortable awareness (and especially self-awareness) is the only path towards change. Much like the Floyd case sparked the BLM movement, Weinstein case igniting the MeToo movement, and now the United Healthcare CEO assassination has sparked something intense in a united public. I can only hope it builds to a larger movement too. In all of these cases, the shady power groups involved clearly hoped to keep the widespread issue suppressed, as if the suffering was individual & should be kept isolated. When the people realize they are all suffering the same wrongs, then they quickly realize the power of their majority... then you end up with revolution, by torches & pitchforks if necessary. Women all over the world have been quietly rebelling against the issues you speak of for years, just by deciding not to have children. The media narrative of 'selfishness' kept it isolated, kept people in opposing 'sides' so it was better to just not discuss it. However, the South Korean 4B movement got a huge international boost from the tragic US election... and people are finally talking about why. WHY everyone feels like they "must" follow the college/marriage/kids path, and WHY others are actually rejecting it. Women finally uniting to discuss all that is a disaster for those that need to keep them apart. Trump may well have ignited a garbage fire leading to the end of America, but i'll still hope for the chance it also sparks a long suppressed rebellion.

[@rosifico]

I have a baby and a dog. They are both my babies. And I’m not mad at all about people who only have pets and don’t want kids, I think that could be partly generational (I’m eldest of Gen Z). Many of my friends don’t feel it’s realistic to have kids, own a home, all that traditional adult stuff. And I don’t blame them.

[@fruithippie]

Yeah, my Chihuahua of 13 years died and I was devastated. She traveled to different countries and states with me ,road trips, camping, through so many life changes...and an old friend told me to get over it because she was just a dog and there are more in shelters. Like it was a burden for her that I existed as a grieving person.

[@MrJMB122]

Also, I think the significant component is that you can love animals. Still, they're never a replacement for human contact or human relationships, especially the relationship you could have with children. Practically, it means not having kids or adopting kids from abroad, etc. You're hurting the next generation of children because they're going to be burdened with a massive tax burden. Along with these are the kids who will pay taxes for your Medicare, healthcare, and Social Security.

[@alienrobot5451]

We treat our pets better BECAUSE they don't have the same level autonomy. We know they are basically our property and cannot fend for themselves (take a look at true strays if you don't agree). That is why were care so much about homeless animals too...they have absolutely no means to change their situation. The human may be in an almost impossibly difficult situation, but the animal's situation will always be worse.

[@tylercoleman9218]

What species of stray are you referring to? Dogs are arguably the most reliant on humans, considering we literally modified them to be so; yet they have been known to revert to ancestral instincts almost immediately when lost… Did you watch the entire video? Because you are quite literally anthropomorphizing pets. Some dog breeds are inbred to the point of physical and mental disability. If you’re willing to pay thousands of dollars for a specific breed then you are actively contributing to that harm. Also, on a psychological level, it is impossible to truly empathize with an animal because you don’t share the same type of cognition or consciousness that we do as humans. And why does this only apply to “pet animal” species. Do you apply this same level of concern and empathy to farm animals? Wild animals? Pest animals? Insects? If so, then how do you categorize which animals are more worthy of our empathy, and why?

[@mockingbird4346]

This video definitely didn't meet the quality we typically see from wisecrack. Not only was the sociological aspect weird conclusions drawn with no sound reasoning (having pets lowers empathy) but the historical aspect was so severely wrong and poorly researched. Animals have been in use since tribal societies and even kept as pets. The comparison to slavery is frankly out of touch and a bit racist when discussing pet ownership and the idea that what makes pets not the same is that their owners didnt birth them is ableist as shit, disregarding infertile parents who adopt or have surrogates. What makes them different is that they are not humans and dont require the same things. You can say that pretty simply.

[@dabluflcn]

Anyone else find it weird we provide better healthcare, food, and end of life care to pets than to our own fellow humans? No? Just me? Must be because it’s more profitable to treat animals that way as opposed to humans in our backward society or something.

[@disneybunny45]

My cat is my baby but I would never claim to be a parent.

[@Geechee_Chick]

0:42 don't be so quick to judge. You don't know if that dog has a medical problem that keeps it from being able to walk.

[@Emiliapocalypse]

My mom is looking into buying a stroller or wagon for her aging dog who has an injury that makes it hard for her to walk longer distances. She really loves to be outside with my mom and sniff the air, but can’t walk as far as she used to.

[@sorensorensen9567]

Fr one of my dogs was diagnosed with a serious heart condition back in April. She still loved to be taken on walks even if she got tired after a few steps. I would have loved to buy her a stroller and take her on walks everyday if she hadn't passed away so quickly. I lost her in May, about a month and half after she was diagnosed..

[@futuristicgirl14]

Who can afford rent in California AND hospital bills after birth, AND braces for the kid, AND their college fund, AND my retirement? It’s too much man.

[@gushardy4283]

It also doesn’t happen all at once.

[@sarahpfarr2487]

Get a union job.

[@tolazytothinkofauser]

@@sarahpfarr2487where? Unions are going to face challenges next year

[@anachronisticvanguard]

​@@sarahpfarr2487this is not how solidarity works.

[@laurenhirth5746]

The note about compassion for pets above compassion for other humans makes me think of the play "Trifles" by Susan Glaspell. Spoilers for a century old play: in it, a group of women figure out that another woman has murdered her husband and decide not to go to the police with the evidence because her husband had killed her pet bird. The play gets its name from the "trifles" the couple left behind demonstrating his violent behavior and her deteriorating mental state--their messy home, some broken jars of preserves, a quilt with erratic stitching, and of course the dead bird--that the all-male judiciary is unable to discern a motive from.

[@ac30428]

Video opening is pretty weird, the comment about how you didn’t create them, many parents didn’t create their child. Other parts of the video are fine but that opening statement really distracts from the point… Also, the slave analogy? Feel like you gotta make a distinction between farm animals that are owned and pets that are adopted which are in a sense also owned but it’s such a different relationship (ofc some people view their farm animals as pets too)… overall this video really did not meet wisecrack standards

[@Internatube]

Agreed. The "you didn't create it" is giving off the "if you didn't give birth to the child it's not yours". Like wtf, I guess parenting through adoption or marriage isnt valid either?

[@SayEsFur]

I most definitely agree. There is a major distinction between adoption and purchase of animals.

[@stevenewsom3269]

Not to mention having kids has lots of parallels with slavery as well.

[@popdogfool]

I'll add having a child is hardly creating anything. It's an automatic process that happens if initiated.

[@manateemoss4253]

Yeah the opening statements feel like the very “politically shallow chronically online” kind of arguments where people pick the worst example to make a point that doesn’t even land

[@silencos5974]

Interesting Video! I personally disagree that pets are detracting from our overall compassion for other members of society. They don’t cause that lack of empathy, but rather provide a new channel for that compassion. They are a byproduct not a cause. A good example is the death of that CEO. Pets didn’t elevate our disdain for that person. Our system and environment we live in did. Those who unjustly dehumanize others will always do so regardless of the type of company they hold in higher regards. (Like their children, family members, or even material possessions.) Asking the average citizen to tackle homelessness is unrealistic when they can barely get by on our own. Policy change is the only real avenue to any kind of improvement on that issue. People are recorded to have overall better mental health when they focus more on their immediate surroundings (ie. their family, friends, pets, and self) rather than large issues outside of their control. So all in all pet owner ship makes sense in today’s world.

[@sharonpopolow6874]

Very insightful. I agree with most of your points.

[@GAHAHAHH]

I get harassed for "not being an animal person" while my general compassion for people gets villainized so in a very clear and direct way it is the cause of a lot of problems, it may not be the biggest cause but it is still a cause.

[@ookamiblade6318]

The death of that CEO brought more injustice in our insurance industry to light for me when someone from the UK commented their pet insurance was better than some of our medical insurance for people here. I rescue cats and have adopted three with disabilities, so I got curious. Turns out the UK pet insurance has (an admittedly more expensive) plan for pets with preexisting conditions which doesn’t exist here. Rather than this causing a lack of empathy it renewed my drive to have a higher standard for both pets and people.

[@schm00b0]

@silencos5974 I am a person who adopted cats and dogs. As for lack of empathy, in the world we live in, where capitalism tries (and often succeeds) to makes us compete with the members of our culture and/or whole society and even species, instead of cooperating with each other, having a pet (can make or) makes that animal as important as any other family member. As soon as anyone views their pet as a family member, they become more important than anyone else outside that circle. E. G. If you had money for only one of these problems, would you rather use your money to prevent a death of a Palestinian child in Gaza or fix a mild medical problem with your pet? Or even more clearly stated, if you could save only your pet or a random human from dying in a random accident, which would you do? While extreme examples say nothing about your empathy, they clearly show that if you feel an animal is a part of your family, it becomes wildly more important than some stranger. Pets are good for our overall health. But I'm not sure they make us more compassionate towards other people. There is a reason Philip K. Dick used animals to flash out empathy in a dystopia. But the animals weren't the point. If you grew up with a robot pet, there wouldn't be any difference.

[@Eltener123]

There's literally a tonne of people who think there's some kind of moral failing in people who don't like pets

[@jlynn2863]

So ironic that I kept getting Chewy ads during this video

[@oopsy444]

Why is that ironic? It's literally the best ad strategy to keep ads relevant to the video topic. If anything would be ironic it'd be ads for pet killing services Plz Google ironic

[@jlynn2863]

@oopsy444 damn why so mean? It's ironic that chewy ads were coming up because Michael was discussing how buying things for our pets like foods healthier than our own and toys and clothes that they don't need has gotten a little crazy and then I get a chewy ad. It's an example of situational irony. Something happens that I didn't expect to would have happened.

[@oopsy444]

@@jlynn2863 not mean. Literal. Its extremely common for ads to play related to the topic. Pets were the topic so its expected that ads for chewy petco petsmart etc to play What ads did you expect to play if not pet ads?

[@jlynn2863]

@@oopsy444 telling me to Google a word just because you didn't feel the same way was pretty unnecessary to add after you already made your point. I guess I could've used 'surprised' instead of ironic but the ads I get don't usually fit with the content of the video. They usually have nothing to do with the video or they are about something I previously looked up and the algorithm is trying to get me to go back to. But I understand your point and agree that's a common marketing practice, that just hasn't been my experience with KZbin ads.

[@DuplicitousDitto]

I know it's anecdotal, but I hear more people/parents complaining about these over-the-top 'pet parents' than I actually witness. It makes me wildly more annoyed at the people whining that folks love their pets in a way they don't like. Like damn man, it's a lonely world out there, let people be happy with companionship in whatever form it takes, even if it doesn't involve a kid. Why does it have to be compared to your parenthood? You're the one conflating the two and getting all fired up about it.

[@lunalin9870]

Biologically speaking, taking care of a dog or a cat gives one oxytocin just like a human baby. While human babies will grow up, cats and dogs will remain like babies their entire life. And they are still much more affordable than human children bc you don’t need to pay for their education.

[@ThunderChickenBucket]

My life has constantly involved pets, climbing over family dogs as a baby, tripping over cats trying to get my attention, birds squawking, turtles turtleing, chickens being dinosaurs, etc. They taught me a lot about compassion and nature, and I was raised to respect them and treat them as feeling creatures in their own right, but they were always critters separate from humans. Honestly animals are much "smarter" than most humans give them credit, they're survivors.

[@NWPaul72]

I'm an irrational and emotional creature. Animals are separate from humans, but which is more valuable than which is, in my opinion/policy/whatever, on a strictly case-by-case basis. My dog is infinitely more valuable to me than several of my neighbors, maybe less valuable than some people. Your dog is less valuable than my leg but worth more than my clothes or a little blood. 🤓

[@RictusHolloweye]

In fact, making sure to treat dogs as dogs, as opposed to treating them like humans, is probably a good way to develop empathy. They have different needs and different desires and it does no good to assume they want the same things as humans.

[@persephonesunderworld]

if you own pets, in what way do you not own children? like, what is the difference other than not wanting to face that reality?

[@saramoreira9847]

A pet will never develop a personality, will never talk back, and therefore will never disagree. That's the real reason a subsegment of animal lovers also hate children.

[@darkcreatureinadarkroom1617]

​@@saramoreira9847you must be talking about pet rocks, because animals definitely have personalities, they do talk back, and I promise you, they CONSTANTLY disagree with you. Have you ever interacted with an animal before? It doesn't sound like it. And btw, you are wrong about the reasons why people who love animals may "hate" children: it's because they are LOUD and HYPER, and there's nothing you can do about the child's behavior if the parent refuses to address it. But if a dog makes _one_ wrong move, then all hell breaks loose. And don't get me started on how everything that can go wrong in an interaction between a child and a dog is automatically blamed on the dog, even when it's objectively the child's "fault" (it's actually the parent's fault, but let's not go there). Animal lovers don't hate children, it's the parents they take issue with.

[@threefoldcrossroads]

@@saramoreira9847 I don't hate children, I just have never felt the drive to have my own biological children, hence my vasectomy in my mid 30s. My pets have always been pets in the more traditional sense of owning an animal and caring for it, etc. Of course I love my pets. I think people that dress their pets up and treat them as children are kinda weird honestly. It ain't for me, but if it fulfills them, who am I to tell them not to? Unless of course, it is actively harming the animal. Any sane person would take issue with that. This video is just in depth enough to try to make some points, but I wish it would dive a bit deeper. It feels a bit reductive, but I suppose that's the nature of it being twenty minutes, and not an hour or more with some more dives into the sources it cites. Obviously the presenter is more than a bit biased as well, because he has his own kids. To my earlier point - I also don't want kids because humans are already overpopulating the crap out of this planet, things are kinda crazy and are getting a bit crazier now - with little signs of slowing down. On top of us not knowing the wider results of progressive climate change in the next twenty to thirty years. I don't think it's responsible to bring a life into this world just to subject that child and young adult to many of the issues I'm still processing and dealing with as an adult myself. How can I be a "good" parent if I've not even figured myself out enough to ensure my children would be at least a bit better and less screwed up than I am, while contending with an ever more online world that demands so much of our attention spans and wears at our mental fortitude in multiple ways? Having real human kids doesn't really solve anything, either so arguing for natalism is a bit off putting as well in my opinion.

[@persephonesunderworld]

reading this back, i just want to note that i didn't mean for it to sound abrasive. if it came across as abrasive, i'm sorry.

[@snowysugar8255]

The differences are very clear a pet helps with a variety of both physical and mental health issues (depending on the animal is depending on what they help with) and generally brings the owner joy companionship and other happy emotions and positive changes. Even things like finding friends and getting the person out of the house will be easier with a pet (especially a friendly dog, but cats can also bring their owners closer to people as well). While a child generally just brings suffering to the parent. It'll destroy your body, possibly kill you and itself before it's even sentient, bring its own special brand of depression (and other major mental health crisis's including literal psycopathy), destroy your house, absolutely fuck up your hormones, destroy different kinds of relationships (from friendships to romantic relationships to familial ones you can pretty much only be stuck with "mom" or "dad" friends who aren't as good), and just generally destroy your entire body, life, and even your self identity but it'll be ok because your hormones will trick you into "loving" it.

[@paydohluvsu58]

Humans have used and abused them for years, loving them the most is the least we can do.

[@josegiron7008]

Interesting cuz in poorer/less developed countries pets and owner relationships are stuck in the past, my dad for examples is from el salvador and he still thinks dogs as outside creatures, interesting how even in a 1st world country like the US that his values regarding pets are still stuck in old logic.

[@trebaneconapise7793]

I call myself a bunny parent because I don't own my bunny (It sometimes feels like she owns me but that's another topic lmao). There's ways in which you sort of have to treat the animal as a child not because you see it as that but because it can't communicate with others and take care of itself in this world. So on one hand, taking care of a pet isn't nearly as much work as your own human child; on the other, there's some similar aspects like having to get sitting for it when you're away for a long time or the fact that I can't just decide to hop on a train right now with a backpack and travel the world because I have this whole another creature I not only need to take care of but also don't want to leave behind because I love her and I'd miss her. Not to mention that a 10-year-old of our species requires way less care than a 10-year-old rabbit. She's gonna be a grandma for her species but unlike the human child, I'll still have to clean up after her. Also as an autistic adult, animals are way easier to live with because they don't care what social rules you break as long as they get food and cuddles and feel safe. Which is very therapeutic.

[@Zbeastie]

Yeah, I get the slavery comparison as a Black American who also happens to have pets, but that comparison isn't really strong when a lot of parents think they OWN their children, young or full azz adults. 😅 At least with pets, those that are genuinely cared for, they tend to show unconditional loyalty and affection to their caretakers, which is much safer, and dare I say rewarding, than giving birth to a whole human this day and age. 🫢

[@painoftheheart12]

You said it!

[@oopsy444]

Fr ppl who think that like or try to make their kids live how they wish they could've whether as extensions or vicariously are far crazier They confuse obedience or fear with respect

[@mockingbird4346]

The slavery comparison is also just racist as shit ngl, it actively neglects the insane abuses inherent to slavery and puts enslaved humans on the same level as animals.

[@Zbeastie]

@mockingbird4346 Yeah, it was definitely a weird comparison... but i don't think it was coming from a hateful place. They just didn't think it through very well. Owning pets, owning your offspring (under capitalism and patriarchy), owning literally human people against their will... 😬 It could've been more thought-provoking, but it just came out as an attempt to be edgy. 🫤

[@hollydillon4613]

Your videos are usually great, but you missed the mark on this one. I don't think you really have a good grasp on this subject.

[@danderson8431]

My dog is my baby, but she’s not A baby. I can put her in a cage and walk away for a couple of hours if I need to. I can’t do that with an actual baby.

[@isaac1670]

You absolutely can do that with an actual baby.

[@Nolerpuss]

Not with that attitude.

[@parmasean4233]

Just train your baby better, get one of those clickers

[@shiddter]

Terrible take. Consider that human relationships with animals have also changed because we now recognize that companion animals have things like emotions which society didn't recognize until pretty fucking recently. This weird thing about engagement, moral easement, or clout is a very online take. Most people who have pets genuinely just adore them. I guarantee that a 1 year old doesn't give a shit about how cute the bow you placed in their hair might be, but do you still do it. The average pet is probably more cognizant as well. It's a state of symbiosis with another species, and even if you want to say more people *should* care more about other humans than pets, I'd argue that there's a spread of general goodwill among humans, but strangers will never compete with familiarity, and usually this is a benefit. People take care of their circle and over time our circles should span and overlap. People bond with people who also love their pets, the circle expands. Ideally everyone would be in someone's circle, but this essentially reads as "why aren't more people in your circle than animals?" and just sounds wildly entitled. Also, comparing the morality of pet "ownership" to slavery is a crazy stretch. The criticism might be better served for the people who are denigrating others as "subhuman" than those who are elevating their family members. And yes, they are family members. Even kids will generally include them if you ask them to draw a family picture.

[@OberynTheRedViper]

The fact you connect homeless people to pets is disingenuous since you don’t make a case that we shouldn’t have tv’s, movies, luxury goods, expensive meals, haircuts, nights out, and every single aspect of modern living being things we should feel bad about/give up until homelessness is solved. Like wtf, usually your content is pretty well thought out.

[@Taycatte]

I'm not a pet owner, so I'm interested in hearing from some. Do any of you feel a social pressure to conform to the trappings of pet parenting and spoiling your pet to the extent that we see now? Are people getting judgemental about pet owners who *don't* spend thousands and thousands of dollars on your pet every year? If so, I would imagine the pet care market would be very happy if pet parents looked down on ones who didn't spend as much as their budget allowed on their pets. There must be an influence going on there.

[@ProfDamatu]

I'd say definitely not. Could just be that all the other pet owners I know are more chill about it, but there's no judgment for not spending crazy amounts of money. Having said that, there's maybe not as much of that available for cats as for dogs...or, lots of the pricey cat stuff is less about "your kitty is a super special individual" and more about "here's something to make your life as a cat owner easier."

[@GAHAHAHH]

Years ago my parents owned a dog and when he was nearing end of life by natural causes, our neighbours reported "animal abuse" and offered "assistance" in a form that would not have been wanted or needed and we found out our dog walker would enter our house to feed our cat even though we already fed him and told her not to overfeed the cat because she thought "he never has any food". What people consider "acceptable" treatment of an animal has drastically skewed, I can't say that this is actually causing a feedback loop or if this ridicule actually causes people to change their behaviour but it sure is annoying in a way that wasn't before.

[@fruithippie]

I've always had pets and have always been an animal lover and always been somewhat lonely, like I've had friends but very few close friends who I felt comfortable around...animals have always been that for me, so that hasn't changed for me really. I love my dog. I don't have kids, I don't want kids, can't afford them..but I am a caring person and enjoy feeling like I am mothering something...just not a human kid.

[@YamiHoOu]

Absolutely not. But I also have never wanted children. I wonder if those who do want children, but can't for whatever reason, feel the desire to do so?

[@mariakarolina7753]

@@GAHAHAHH the same thing happened to me and my dog. She died at 17, she was beyond elderly, and by 15-16 she was getting skinnier and skinnier and a couple of months before she passed naturally, I even got a threat that she was going to be taken from me. The fact that I had to fight strangers to keep taking care of the dog I had since I was 9 years old, my life-long partner, is insane.

[@petthepizza]

I wish Michael would expand on his take that parenthood is distinctly different from pet ownership. He even mentions pet adoption as a means of ownership and likens that to slavery but makes no distinction for adopting children. I think it would be interesting to explore the differences if any

[@BDnevernind]

Yeah failing to validate (human) adoption was really crass, just to make a cheap point of superiority over his straw man representation of pet owners.

[@KidArkx]

​@BDnevernind But human adoption and animal adoption are different from buying a human and buying an animal. If a bird loses its mother and I adopt it and become a surrogate parent, I'm not enslaving it

[@BDnevernind]

@@KidArkx I don't know what you're saying, or how it relates to what he said.

[@minngael]

Pet vs child adoption are not remotely comparable. Requirements for adopting a child are much higher & certain groups (disabled, same sex couples, not high enough income, religion) are often discriminated. With dogs & cats you don't even need to adopt from a shelter you can just pick up a puppy or kitten someone doesn't want. A kid can be tossed back & forth between foster homes & parents with problems while a good stable potential parents are turned away because they don't fit umpteen requirements. But foster parents & bio parents still get away with loads of abuse.

[@petthepizza]

@ the existence of requirements does not explain why adopting pets can be likened to slavery and adopting children cannot

[@Wheelebarral]

I think you are fishing with this one. People want to take care and/or have relationships with something, they will get a pet. Unaffordable definitely increases the pet industry. “Properly” taking care of a pet is a decent coping mechanism versus other things people get into (drugs & alcohol). Heard many times people saying they wouldn’t kill themselves because their pet would be sad. All that political stuff is subjective.

[@randomtinypotatocried]

That was definitely my mother with all her dogs. It was clear she loved her dogs more than me

[@mpetrison3799]

I'm sorry.

[@Zbeastie]

Also, for the animal videos and pet influencer parts of the internet, could this also be compared to parents who use their children (usually very young kids) for monetization... Idk if it's comparable or not. Since they both don't really have a voice or choice. And I'm not trying to start any arguments, just genuinely thinking about it out loud.

[@minngael]

Harmless compared to doing it with children.

[@SupremeFenix274]

Why would you put your dog in a stroller? Dogs love walking.

[@stefgreen5237]

If they can’t walk far. It means you can still have a nice long walk with them without heading back early

[@Maartje117]

My friend had a dog that had such stiff legs she needed a stroller for most of the walk. People would walk up to see the baby only to find an elderly beagle 😂

[@shiddter]

If they get tired or have arthritis. Especially with arthritis because they actually do need to keep active but it might be too much, or trying to get some fresh air to encourage them. There's tons of reasons this could be done in the interest of the dog.

[@rosifico]

My dog is a shih tzu. One time I took him for a super long walk. Eventually he just splooted and refused to go any further. I had to carry him the rest of the way to the car. While some animals are fast, Humans are built for walking long distances. I can see why some people have strollers just in case.

[@SupremeFenix274]

I have had to take care of an elderly dog and I just modulated the length of my walk to suit her.

[@jazmineraymond7495]

As a childless cat lady, I don't see my cats as children but people do try to push that on me. But I do let them sleep on my bed and throw them birthday parties.

[@bailey12321]

I don’t agree with the criticism of anthropomorphizing pets being negative. I think it is an implicit sign that we recognize pets as being conscious, feeling beings. Sure, they don’t have the complex language structure to understand and signal their feelings, but they (i think) clearly show emotions. We call them “human emotions” but I think that comes from a historical need to “other” animals, especially non-pet kinds, to feel less bad for the monstrous things we do to them. If anything, we should expand our “anthropomorphizing” to non-pets and realize that they suffer and we are responsible (individually and societally) when we cause them harm. Of course, I agree with the idea around some pets being treated better than marginalized people, but that is only a select few pets (there is plenty of neglect) and honestly feels more like a whataboutism than any meaningful critique of what causes marginalized people to suffer (it’s not pets).

[@joeciok]

I'm a previously unhoused person. Went through a rough patch for a few years. I'm doing great now, but when I was living rough, I still had my old dog. I could write a Novela about how much generosity my dog got vs. me. My ol girl died a few years back housed in the kootenay mountains in BC canada. She had a great life. She wasn't family like humans are, but we had a bond that was different, but also extremely deep. She was a good dog, and we had some wild times. I miss her.

[@CorinthB]

I find that pet ownership or volunteering at rescue shelters can increase empathy for humans and other non-human animals. And I also discovered when I first started caring for my niece, that the gentleness I learned to use around kittens helped inform how I take care of her, and the way I take care of her helped me be more gentle with kittens at the shelter. I think that having a view towards caring opens you up to care about others regardless of species. If you read any of the works by Sy Montgomery, you can see how compassion towards animals can open a door to compassion for everyone... at the same time, I think that it's definitely worth pointing out that not everyone feels that way, as with the examples you cited re: some people's views on dogs versus people of color, but that's not to say that there is a bridge towards a more inclusive way of thinking there. Hmm I also remember a study where there was an empathy gap between cat people, dog people, and bird people, with bird people being the most empathetic and dog people being less empathetic than bird people. The theory there was that dogs have more human expressions, birds absolutely don't, so learning to care for something so alien forces you to be more observant. Interesting topic!

[@foolishlyfoolhardy6004]

Surely it's confounded with the fact that plenty of people consider dogs as a "tool" for work or protection. Or even something to make money from. I wonder how it would change between exotic bird breeders, or chicken farmers for example - even with a small number of birds. There's also this idea that still runs large that dogs need to be "d0minated" - lots of avers!ves are used in dog training (same in horses) - whereas you can't use methods like that with birds, it doesn't work well and you make more issues. People who train like that can't apply their training across species - they are not good trainers. So if a person like that did get a bird, it's likely they give the bird away pretty quickly or keep it in a way that they don't have to deal with it so much. And they don't consider themselves "bird people" It's possible that it's not so much that bird people become more empathetic, but rather the people who would consider themselves bird people and take close care of their birds were already very empathetic otherwise they wouldn't keep it up. Even still, birds are probably amoung the most abvsed pets - because they are so "alien" that we really don't have good capacity to care for them, especially parrots. They are a full time job to keep stimulated and need a lot of space, enrichment and socialisation - and even the most well-me,aning people can't give them that. Even zoos don't do a particularly good job. Cats are something else though - still very often considered d!sposable pets. I could discuss that all day.

[@schm00b0]

@CorinthB While what you're saying is possible, I find that people who at some point start caring about animals in the way you're describing (volunteering) fall into a pattern of 'obsessing' about a (LOL) 'pet project'. Social media and even normal social interactions drive a need to show how empathetic ('better') a person is compared to other people. So, in the end, the society we live in drives OCD behaviors (emotional gamification) to distract us from the politics, unions, misogyny, racism, climate change, inequality, lack of transparency etc... But, on the other hand, saving animals isn't bad. It's great. We should all be vegetarian. We should all try to curb meat corporations.

[@mpetrison3799]

More like they find an outlet for their nurturing and caring instincts, so they no longer have significant instinctive need to care about other human beings.

[@arturouribebertolotti1169]

ok, that's a good point and you bring studies in the matter. However, i think maybe there's a difference between rescuing animals and rescuing only pet animals. Rescuing possible pets would not get opposition most of the time (unless is a finance issue), because no one is opposed to sheltering dogs and cats. But is completely distinct to protest for rights of animals in slaughterhouses or for large wild terrains that are going to be used by a company. This is more challenging in the sense that is cuestioning the stablish systems. That's why also many people don't go to volunteer for other humans (unless is just donate bad food) in any systemic way, because first they need to cuestion the actual system we all live in.

[@curiosity6580]

Ridiculing pet strollers pisses me off so much. I am disabled person and I use public transport to get to the vet. I need that stroller. It doesnt mean I think my cat is a baby. >.>

[@internetfox]

yeah a lot of this was surprisingly lacking in nuance. not to mention pets can be disabled/elderly/etc too.

[@Zectifin]

or maybe I just want to take my cat out to experience the outdoors while also keeping them safe from running away and getting spooked or attacked by some rando's dog.

[@LewdMama]

Is it so bad people are at least appreciating animals beyond using it for entertainment??

[@DarkPesco]

Petty and whiney! Animals have long been viewed as "part of the family" as is evidenced by certain groups of animals being termed "domesticated"...or suited to or fond of home life. This can be true of plants and animals alike! People have often called their various members of their flower garden as "their babies" and in all practical aspects...they ARE! Oh...now you're going to say they aren't REALLY their babies, right? Did you say that in reaction to Elton John when he and his partner adopted a child? This episode really feels like some sort of fake-macho thing. As far as fear of eating pets...that isn't new, either! In elementary school I lived next to a half Korean girl my age. Her father served in Korea and brought home a "war bride". My father also served in Korea. We had a great relationship with the family. I was mocked and told not to eat any of their food because it all has dog meat in it. I was enlightened because of my father's experience and lack of racism on this matter. None of the other boys had this exposure. Guess who had the prom date with the hot Korean girl? It wasn't anyone who was scared to eat at her family's table! In other words....pets aren't what the Trump-ettes want us to believe (food) and they aren't some fantasy-induced belief of true kinship. Perhaps the idea of "pets as kids" results from society not paying people enough to have a family, in the first place!

[@mpetrison3799]

People think the plants in their garden are like people's babies? Unhinged...

[@TaxeiJenkins]

9:13 ive had my dog 3 years, lived in 2 apartments with wood floods and he’s never left scratch marks on the floor… But I also get his nails fairly often

[@Gainoffuntion]

Your human child is an animal. Not a pet but still an animal

[@ns7495]

What do you mean i didnt make pooper myself? Ill have you know i spent way too many nights combiling stable DNA sequence combinations, to have my scientific achivment insulted!

[@phoenixliger948]

My disregard for human started when I was about eight I got bullied a lot when I was a child the best part about animals. You never have to worry about them asking for money stealing your stuff pawning it. And my cats have more empathy then most humans. And they're psychopaths

[@rossdelarosa792]

I got over this type of thinking when I was a late teen. I was bullied for years, and thought that animals were better. Well, that was until I decided to tutor kids and saw humans for what they are: a mixed bag. I don’t want kids, and plan on adopting two cats, but even then, I try to help my fellow human beings. Caring more for animals doesn’t make you a better person if you’re that apathetic to humans.

[@somedipshtinthecomments2507]

As someone who was also seriously violently bullied as teenager: you need to grow out of this mentality for your own sake if noone else's.

[@luroluroluro]

@@somedipshtinthecomments2507why?

[@minngael]

​@@fergdizzleThey may need someone else to reach out.

[@minngael]

I know many autistic people relate to animals more easily because there isn't a bunch of social BS we have to navigate.

[@LandofHelena]

reminds me of that tweet that read: do white people know that there are dogs in flint who dont have clean water either? edit: lots of upset people in the comments who seem to think they are being criticized for loving their pets. i am a female pet owner and i love my 2 rescue cats very much, i consider them to be a part of the family, and i found this video interesting and thought-provoking. there is a difference between coexisting with animals in a mutalistic relationship, which humans and animals have done for thousands of years, and engaging in excessive consumerism around pet ownership, including the consumption of dogs bred with health problems because they are aesthetically pleasing to some. this video for me highlights how pets replace biological children due to younger people being unable to afford to raise a human child and how even that can be capitalized on by the same system that is making us unable to have children in the first place. i did not feel that he postulates that those who have pets are not empathetic towards other humans, but rather that there may be a correlation between excessive pet anthropomorphizing and consumerism, especially for pets that are bourgeois status symbols, and disdain for the "other." this was not touched on in this video but to expand on the idea, where i do think there is overlap is the value that parenthood = ownership. pets are not going to form a separate identity nor exist as a different entity legally in the same way that a human child does. there may be overlap with those who see parenting as ownership and those who see the "other" as less. based on the examples used in this video and personal experience, i would assume this may be more common value among dog owners than cat owners, given that cats are not obedient to people in the same way as dogs (accounting for a lot of the [often gendered] cat hatred).

[@laarb]

I like pets but never had one. I have literally had people who do tho tell me they would let a human drown to save a dog. So I kinda see were the lack of empathy comes form. I can see maybe not having a pet in my life had a counter effect

[@Zbeastie]

@@laarb I think people who think/ talk like that already have a disdain for human people regardless of if they're pet people or not. Like getting a dog doesn't make you automatically racist or something (section referring to pitties and certain communities). That ish was already there. 😅

[@MrViews-ij3tx]

I also think that being really reall into pets can take away empathy from Humans. In an ethics class we once we're asked to choose: In a self driven car accident, which human or animal should the automated car save. And over a third answered to save the animal before the human, thats scary and sad in my eyes.

[@Raviolitheboy]

As a pet page owner that just started this year, I had no idea how prolific pet pages were when I adopted Ravioli last year. I grew up with cats and they were (and continue to be) a source of comfort when humans failed to show empathy and compassion. I believe having access to that emotional support (even if it was just from a cat) supplemented my capacity for empathy. I was pretty hesitant in adopting cause I knew I would want to provide quality care for my cat just as I would want to do for any living creature in my care. In a way, he is like my child but I haven't forgotten he's a cat and has cat needs. Many of those needs just happen to overlap (companionship, needing time in nature, brushing their teeth, etc.) especially if our goal is to provide a happy, healthy, and long life for our pets. I personally don't think it's a bad thing that we've learned so much about pets and are applying that knowledge for their benefit. Of course, I do disagree with the commodification of pets to the point of terrible breeding practices. I wish people could appreciate the uniqueness of each pet. Also, as a black woman, I definitely see people caring for animals over other humans they see as lesser, but caring for animals "more" just seems like a convenient cover for their lack of empathy for humans that was already present.

[@danemlive]

As someone from a country where pets are still seen as animals, I am happy you made this video. I think I am going crazy sometimes living in the UK.

[@alewiina]

This makes me really sad, to think that pet ownership can contribute to treating minorities and/or underprivileged people worse… but I have seen it. I have seen people express a shocking amount of cruel words towards people who have to rehome their pets due to dire circumstances, essentially making them to be literally the worst person in the world if they give up their pet for ANY reason, even if they’re about to become homeless… with absolute zero sympathy for the person who is actually about to become homeless. It’s disgusting. Of course it’s not okay get rid of a pet for no reason or trivial reasons - Pets should always be adopted with the intent of keeping them for their whole lives - but sometimes impossible situations DO happen and people are absolutely horrendous to those people, despite most of them giving up their pets only because they have no choice and already heartbroken about it, only to have people pile cruelty onto them on top of it. I also felt admittedly defensive through the first half of the video as I have no children (and don’t want them) but I have and absolutely love my pets (currently 2 cats). My partner and I jokingly call the boys our “kids” but we don’t actually look at them as surrogate children. They are cats, not kids, they’re different. They are companions, and we always adopt from rescues, trying to help animals who have been abandoned. And I would still have them even if I did have kids. Idk I think the notion that having pets “instead” of kids is super flawed for a lot of people, though I do know that some people actually feel that way. I just think it’s not as many people as some may think. Most of us who adore our pets are well aware that they’re animals and not children and do not treat them like humans, even if they are very closely bonded with us. I think it’s part of the whole natalism thing that forces that label on us more than it’s actually true. I am not a “mom”, I’m a person who has rescued some cats that I love.

[@mob999]

People who are categorically cruel toward people who rehome their animals may not actually have much empathy for the animals either, since it may very well be the best for the animal to be rehomed. Failing to see that may mean that they're only interested in seeming morally superior without considering what is actually beneficial for all involved, or they're acting out some trauma of their own. Also tbh, I think the racist people with pets would be just as racist without the pets. Rescuing animals and allowing that to satisfy some parental instinct seems perfectly fine to me so long and it's not leveraged as a reason to hate on other humans.

[@alewiina]

@@mob999I totally agree with you (esp your first paragraph) like YES you should keep your pet if you’re able to but if you’re not able to provide the kind of life they need (be it food, shelter, or even your time), it’s better for the animal to go somewhere that they WILL get treated the way they should be. Better a cat go to a new owner than be constantly home alone and eat the cheapest worst food possible because someone is working 14 hours a day and can barely make ends meet as it is. The fact that some people can’t see that is absolutely baffling to me.

[@eepmeep8550]

I think people are sympathetic to people who have to re-home their pets and reserve their rage for the landlords.

[@guybunchofnumbers123]

Also, if you have no hope of affording child-rearing or see it as immoral to bring children into a crumbling world, pets today can be seen as serving a substitutive function

[@GAHAHAHH]

Why not put that money and effort into fixing the "crumbling world"?

[@shiddter]

​@@GAHAHAHHprobably because that's a group effort? This is the fucking "if you can afford a house you should stop getting avocado toast/coffee/literally any small luxury that makes you happy" argument. I'm not going to change the world alone, but I can change the world for the pet and they can change mine.

[@mpetrison3799]

Ofc they function as a surrogate activity. Like masturbation, video games, etc.

[@112428]

​@@GAHAHAHHBecause the wealthy under neoliberalism have made it nearly impossible to make any difference at all.

[@shakirakurosawa1740]

On a somewhat related note: Watch "Lamb", it's actually decent!

[@lilskyguy7]

No matter how you look at it, we are technically related to all life, and I see little to no problem with feeling connected with and socializing with my beloved pets. All life is precious and my furry girls are just as much family to me as my parents and siblings.

[@chris3141084]

11:08 that dog doesn’t even know a camera is in front of him, he’s is baked

[@Biscuitsdefortune]

Wow, what a super interesting video! I was not expecting to think so much after that video.

[@jesss.5260]

I think like someone in here said, it's because adults tend to think they own their children, even into adulthood. I can't state any facts but I've seen people talking to parents less too, giving rise to friendsgivings and single family holidays. Pets help fill that loneliness and love that people aren't feeling from their family. It gives a sense of family especially a love that isnt conditional like a lot of parent/adult child relationships.

[@sylv3053]

I had a teacher once who told us that all of our problems could be solved if we gave everyone a pet and a Nintendo Switch.

[@jimesalinas4580]

2:47 this is not connection, its explotation. As you point out later the problem with current pet culture is the violence of all this humanized treatment. Strollers are a symbol of the violence of this love given that dogs need to eat raw meat and bones, take walks, socialize, smell poo and play.

[@miguelhernandez6733]

Wow, this was hard to listen to but enlightening, please do elaborate more

[@themasterofinfinity]

I don't think he can

[@steelbulwark8094]

6:13 I love the B- roll footage of Homeward Bound. Chance, Shadow, and Sassy were a big part of my childhood lol.

[@jamesbaxter9150]

Wisecrack was fighting back not to say having a pet is Fascist.

[@nonnayerbusiness7704]

I've never known anyone in my life who was really into being a "pet parent" and who always talked about how pets are better than kids or people in general... who wasn't a narcisist.

[@oopsy444]

You can also adopt children like you can pets (adopt dont buy your fur babies). It's basically the same you have to take care of them and are responsible for them. Human children just gain a higher level of intelligence.

[@outerheaven2k7]

This

[@minngael]

Way way harder & more expensive though. And more discrimination both domestic & internationally. There's lots of problems with the adoption industry.

[@oopsy444]

@@minngael if youre referring to humans yah that industry is pretty messed up which is why you gotta be vigilant. Most industries are just gonna keep getting worse unfortunately. Its why we need to fix them beforehand. However kids still deserve to be adopted just bc adults are being messed up doesn't mean they don't deserve love. I'm not implying youre saying otherwise either. Just saying. Its also important to couples that are unable to give birth or have complications that could risk their life. Its cheaper than in vitro too in many cases

[@mockingbird4346]

You should adopt OR buy from an ethical breeder who health tests, operates litter wait lists and keeps records. Supporting ethical breeders prevents breeds from going extinct and encourages their well being, such as Doberman which are currently at risk of extinction from genetic disease with ethical breeding programs trying to eliminate the disease.

[@texasdarkskies]

When someone chooses to adopt an animal, they become responsible for that animal’s life-their healthcare, their feeding, their hygiene, etc. That animal’s life is in that person’s hands. If we were taking about humans, this would be described as guardianship or parenthood. Animals are important, too, so if a person chooses to care for one and refer to themself as a pet parent, let them.

[@Matty002]

yeah some of us dont want kids, and our pets are not some kind of substitution, we just want pets. this blanket 'dog as kids surrogate' generalization is just that. we celebrate our dogs birthday because its fun, not as some faux child birthday

[@Matty002]

also white people need to chill. dogs eat shit for fun. they ARE NOT CHILDREN! theyre animals

[@AZM777]

Love the left side corner of rolling sources. keep that please!!!!

[@helloxo666]

I will say I know people who love their pets more than their family.

[@zerikane]

My father's friend is an animal trader. It's equally not as glamourous in the rural setting. Because of forgetting healthcare for animals warrants more punishment than human welfare. Animal adoption is the solution. However, because humanity switched to urban settings, the animal trades with professional Zoos are making territories and general zoning impossible for consistent habitats for wildlife. Pets are adapting to the new environment. Another angle is translations for the word "pet" is 'mascota'. Similar to Mascots. So, thinking of anthropomorphism, they symbolize a separate attribute from people. Their 'personhood' is more valuable due to tribalistic behaviors. It's pathetic certain Think Tanks cannot respect other people. Humankind is also a species of creature and animal. Harmony is due to sharing work to make ourselves healthy and appeased. We forget that wolves worked in packs never "Alpha" "Beta" or "Sigma" and "Omega". Because we are not constantly in College Greek Fraternities or Sororities. We are people in a perpetual cycle of living. NAFTA, EU, and BRICS shows the necessity to connect and thrive despite the borders.

[@M-Soares]

Had never thought about it before this video but, yeah, I noticed that most “pet parents” I’ve met were disproportionately more prone to misanthropic behaviors. And I say that as a dog owner who doesn’t plan to have kids

[@arcturionblade1077]

Can you really blame them? The corporate elite monopolizes the vast majority of our time on earth and most people get paid peanut wages that has not kept up with inflation in decades. People increasingly cannot afford homes much less to start a family if they're married at all. Pets are a much cheaper alternative than children but it's a bandaid on larger systemic problems with the way modern capitalist societies are currently set up. It's little wonder that more recent generations raised on TikTok and can't afford houses or families, taking solace in pets, hate their fellow humans. I'm Gen X and my wife is Millennial, we don't have children but have two dogs that we love to bits. We can't bear the thought of bringing children into this messed up world with an uncertain future.

[@oopsy444]

Heavily disagree. I find ppl who view children as extensions of themselves and have them for less than ideal reasons are far worse

[@Sqwivig]

​@@oopsy444Agreed. It's a huge social problem that doesn't get acknowledged enough. Most parents I have encountered don't really see their children as individuals. They see them as extentions of themselves (mini me's) and live vicariously through their children. Children also don't have very many rights and almost no agency, and are treated more like slaves than our pets are.

[@SeanR794]

12:54 was not expecting IRyS to show up but here we are lol

[@X_TheHuntsman_X]

Yeah, I'd have kids if my own childhood wasn't a neoliberal horror itself, and I am not putting that on a kid.

[@mariaraposabranca7062]

You: Explain statistic about pets Me: explaining to my cats why I do or don't do not do things you mentioned.

[@TheRealCeeJai]

I don't care how people want to treat their animals, frankly. If you think someone is a little bit overboard with their pet to the point it annoys or angers you, then just don't associate with them. That said, when it crosses the line into people's jobs, that's another situation. I get paid extra for handling people's pets in my job. I have people try to pass their PETS off as Service Animals (Dogs) or worse, as "emotional support animals" which are correctly labeled NOT service animals under current federal law. I take issue with this quite a bit. People dodging the extra fee for a pet and screwing me over financially is one thing, but to think oneself so special that you get to have your pet (whatever it might be - I've literally seen people try to claim emotional support iguanas before!) with you wherever you go and think it's more special to you than anyone else's pet is a whole other level of hubris. I have never let an "emotional support animal" get by as a service animal and I never will. (And, no, I have never been written up or otherwise disciplined for this, as it's exactly why my employer wants us to be screening passengers. I follow the law, and comply with the Two Questions part of the ADA for Service Animals.) All that said, I have two cats. I am allergic to most, but not all, dogs. I can deal with them for a short time at my job, but I have, and will continue to, raised a stink in a grocery store when someone just walks their NON-service dog right in to the store and around the produce, packages, and food I am currently perusing. Wanting your pet with you everywhere you go is just natural. I wish I could take my kitties with me to work everyday. But to act upon it and try to wiggle in some BS law, ordinance, or regulation to guarantee your 'right to your pet' is just plain self-centered and obnoxious - as well as extremely disrespectful to the people who need ACTUAL, trained Service Animals for a disability. P.S. - Special shoutout to the 'grizzled vet' at my last job who - on at least three occasions - tried to CARRY the overweight, old, wheezing, genetically defective "bulldog" of his that he got a BS 'emotional support animal' vest made for into the restaurant and was turned away every time. It takes a special kind to walk around with military-esque t-shirts and tattoos proclaiming how tough you are and lambasting the 'snowflakes' and then expecting people to take your 'emotional support' needs seriously.

[@GreyWasteTim]

I mean, I just like animals more than I like most people.

[@hugh261]

Yep, they offer love and never judgement. Judgement scares me, so pets feel safe.

[@fergdizzle]

Examples 1&2 of why personal relationships are failing. People will put literal animals over each other..

[@buttersleopaldstoch5793]

​@@fergdizzleYou forgetting that at one point people liked people more than animals what happened to change that?

[@alexwixom4599]

​@hugh261 that's the core of @GrayWasteTim statement. We like pets because we can project anything we want on their behavior. They are incapable of the judgment we fear.

[@somedipshtinthecomments2507]

​@hugh261 you need to understand what a phenomenally self-infantilising attitude this is and reflect

[@xvictus]

Having a Kanauru edit of IRyS at 12:53 was NOT what I was expecting from Wisecrack. I dont know how i feel about this LOL

[@a_e_hilton]

If you clicked on this video wanting to talk about the morality of pet ownership, I highly recommend reading We Are All Completely Beside Ourselves by Karen Joy Fowler :)