The Dark Age of The Law: Ace Attorney's Most Misunderstood Plotline?

[@Kaempfdog]

Let's get some more love for the 2nd trilogy out there! This was a FUN project to write.

[@greg.167]

hi,hes kaempfdog

[@spouwnerring]

You forgot to pin your comment

[@SmashSSL]

Well... ""trilogy""....

[@Posby95]

@@SmashSSL Is it three games? Then it is a trilogy.

[@OExplosion]

@@Posby95Ah yes the “Apollo” Trilogy in which two of the games have Phoenix Wright in the title and not Apollo

[@tiniracoon]

I always wonder how can Phoenix say "always believe in your client" considering the absolutely no traumatizing events in the final case of Justice for All. They have just had a huge luck that every single client they had was truly innocent.

[@Kaempfdog]

Well let’s for the sake of argument say Phoenix disqualifies himself as their attorney and more their accomplice under duress when it gets to the Matt Engarde and Paul Atishon point. They have a naïveté that everyone the police arrests is not guilty. If they do civil cases down the line, they should have a lot more freedom in writing who is right and who is wrong to give both sides a reason to fight for, that could lead to a more intense murder trial after depending on who wins when the loser is pushed over the edge. That would find a good balance for the future with neat consequences.

[@blastthechaos6083]

TBF, He has a lie detector on him from the second game onwards

[@armandostockvideos8386]

Because there is no point in a lawyer that doesn't believe in his client and fight until the very end, the truth will always come to light during the trial(in the ace attorney world), if he hadn't believed in his clients and had given up when everything was pointing them as the murder, then a lot of innocent people had been sent to jail.

[@ironiccaesar178]

Something in the same line happened in GAA1 with the no traumatizing McGilded plot

[@TheAzulmagia]

"Truly innocent" isn't quite accurate. After 2-4, the player has clients who are at least a little sketchy (in the Shu Takumi games, at least). - *3-2:* Ron Delite is actually a thief and continues thieving after proven innocent of murder. - *3-3:* Odd one out, but it was written for JFA originally, so it's understandable why. - *3-5:* Iris is part of the murder conspiracy. - *1-5:* Written after the original trilogy. Lana is complicit in a number of crimes, even if not 100% willingly. - *4-1:* Phoenix forges evidence to help Apollo win the case. - *4-2:* Wocky is part of the yakuza and outright admits to multiple crimes he's committed. - *4-3:* Machi smuggles cocoons into the country. - *4-4:* Vera is a professional forger. We only go back to 100% innocent clients with Dual Destinies and Spirit of Justice.

[@RogueOmega]

The way I always interpreted the Dark Age of the Law, even when I first played Dual Destinies and learned of the concept, was that it was the end result of what I had always surmised would have been a building distrust of the legal system behind the scenes across the games prior. Like, I always wondered to myself, "How must the public be reacting to all these big name prosecutors like Manfred von Karma or Godot turning out to be murderers? How must they have reacted to finding out the truth about Damon Gant, the, at the time of the first game, Chief of Police and the SL 9 incident? What about all these instances where it turns out that not only was the suspect on trial innocent, but the prosecution almost seemed more worried about winning the trial than about justice?". And I was right to wonder. People DID grow to distrust the legal system, or, at least, as far as the police and prosecutors were involved. They probably came to place their trust in defense attorneys, ESPECIALLY Phoenix Wright, the best of them all. Except... one day, Phoenix was disbarred after being duped into presenting forged evidence. To the public, seeing that even someone as noble as Phoenix, as far as they were aware, wasn't immune to using underhanded tricks to win a case, it meant that it wasn't just a problem with the police and prosecutors; the ENTIRE legal system was corrupt. Anything went so long as you won, was how they probably came to see it. And so, the quality of people seeking to become attorneys, prosecutor OR defense, likely plummeted as a result. And of course, it resulted in more instances of attorneys using dirty tricks, which further fed into public distrust of the system, to the point even people who were supposed to TEACH the law no longer saw the point in believing in the "old" ways of justice and truth.

[@Kaempfdog]

I can’t argue with any of that. What we namely focused on was less the breaking of the system, but more to the point it was the straw that broke the camel’s back and it was taken advantage of. But you’re right on the money!

[@OriginalGameteer]

Honestly, a damn amazing description of the course of the games imo

[@ScorbunGame]

The events of Duel Destinies are a direct result of most if not all trials in the AA universe being able to be viewed by the public. The trust in the legal system eroded over time throughout the entire series until the case that serves as the inciting incident in Apollo Justice. That was the breaking point, people just didn't trust the "men of the law" on both sides to actually be serving their best interests, to the public the legal system was a rigged game where if you get arrested your pretty much screwed no matter what happens.

[@llSuperSnivyll]

Honestly, the problem with the Dark Age of the Law isn't how it works, but rather that DD makes it look like it happened overnight.

[@fridaylambda3494]

Yeah, that's the primary issue isn't that the Dark Age of the Law doesn't work because we don't how it was created, but instead, that it only makes references to two events. As such, it feels like it came out of left field and is now a major issue (especially since it isn't mentioned in Apollo Justice even though both events were from 7 years ago). The events in Turnabout Succession shouldn't have been the camel that broke the back and instead just a final representation that the Law has reached its lowest points. However, Dual Destinies ability to reference other games hinders that aspect to the point that it comes across as a convenient way to raise the stakes than a natural progression of the plot.

[@magnusprime962]

I think the issue for me with the “Dark Age of the Law” plotline is that DD tries to argue that it started after the original trilogy and the system needs to return to that idyllic time. The thing is, the legal system in the original trilogy is terrible from a real-world perspective. Court cases are carried out while the investigation is ongoing, the defendant is presumed guilty until proven innocent, there’s no jury of one’s peers, and the prosecution frequently gets away with underhanded tactics that would result in a mistrial if not outright disbarment in the real world. That’s a terrible system that’s in dire need of reform. But the game doesn’t acknowledge this, mainly because the very fact that the original system is so stacked against you is a major part of the fun. The plot calls attention to the system being screwed up, but it doesn’t realize how far it truly goes. As such, it rings a bit hollow for me.

[@Sneakmon]

I appreciate the analysis of Turnabout Academy considering my personal head-canon is that Aristotle was Kristoph’s mentor in the same way Constance was Klavier’s

[@Kaempfdog]

It’s not impossible, that’s for sure! Professor Means as annoying as he was could very easily have long reaching consequences. He did become far more brazen on his corrupt teachings after 4-4. He said he was “changing with the times.”

[@misterjeeves5253]

Yo I never thought about that but it makes sense lol.

[@Pol74698]

But then why wouldn't the game mention it? If they'd been generic about it, it would have served as an invitation to play the previous game for new players and a reference to tie it and DD in a nice bow. They could have been subtle about it if they wanted to avoid spoilers, like when Phoenix mentioned Turnabout Trump in a throwaway line before Apollo takes his leave of absence Then again, it would've made Klavier's believing in Kristoph that much harder

[@Sneakmon]

@@Pol74698 because this team has a habit of not wanting to “spoil” details related to previous games as direct tie ins and they’re directed by different people. AJ is directed by Endo and supervised by Takumi while for the most part DD was handled by the investigations team

[@Pol74698]

@@Sneakmon the "no spoilers rule". But like I said, make the Kristoph reference generic, something like "Someone close to me adopted Prof. Means's ideology. It didn't end well." This way, you won't spoil AJ's villain to people whose first game is Dual Destinies, but it's clear enough to be a reference for those who did play AJ (Also that "changing with the times" is supposed to be a reference to Kristoph who, according to Klavier, "stopped"? That's a cryptic reference)

[@davidford5575]

I wish 5-3 had a part in it where it was Phoenix v. Klavier in count against each other briefly. Two people who were only in the investigation segments and are by far the most connected to why Professor Means is the way that he is. I think it would have been neat.

[@Kaempfdog]

A Klavier and Phoenix rematch I’m REALLY hoping for occurring in AA7 when that inevitably comes along.

[@blaa6]

​@@Kaempfdog But the opening scene of 7 should still be the truth about Apollo and Trucy. I don't think I could handle it being put off until the last trial or end of a new trilogy.

[@Kaempfdog]

@@blaa6 I can definitely see there being a circumstance where Phoenix reveals Apollo’s lineage to him in full with Thalassa and Trucy in attendance. But they’d have to work it into the case and not just a random side conversation. And that’s where I’m stumped. How would Apollo’s lineage be relevant going forward? That’s just a really tough question and the only thing I can even think of is the true death of Thalassa Gramarye, but no one wants that. So there has to be yet ANOTHER complication to Apollo’s past. I don’t know. This is why Apollo’s story is so tough moving forward. His arcs have essentially come to a close and he has joined the Edgeworth club of development. Always relevant but no where to move forward in their own arcs.

[@blaa6]

@@Kaempfdog Maybe the mom needs a blood donation of a living relative and that's where it's revealed.

[@TheAzulmagia]

It's kind of messed up that Phoenix just got his badge back and Themis Academy immediately is like "Mr. Wright, could you come have a mock trial at our school against the person who got you disbarred for seven years?"

[@ProsecutorZekrom]

I’d argue the dark age has already started by at least 4-3. In that case, a literal child was accused, and because there was not enough evidence to indict the actual murderer, the case very nearly went unsolved.

[@Kaempfdog]

I think that they specifically set up that Daryan’s and Machi’s plot was an extraordinary circumstance that’s not a frequent occurrence. It’s definitely a dark age level plot, don’t get me wrong, but it’s prior to the straw that broke the camel’s back. Heck they even say that the system may be ill-equipped for these kinds of plots. And THEN it all became more widespread with 4-4 being the big catalyst

[@ProsecutorZekrom]

@@Kaempfdog I always was under the impression that the "dark age" spanned the whole 7-8 years. However, before the events of Apollo Justice, not everyone is aware that there is a dark age, and if so how dark? The events of 4-4 and Dual Destinies shone a spotlight on what was already there, and it obviously got even worse with the actions of Kristoph, the Phantom, and Means being the worst offenders.

[@toddelmsworth640]

My entire deal with that case is: Why are they indicting a child who, before the reveal, is BLIND. The the public image for Machi Tobaye is that he’s a blind pianist that performs alongside Lamiroir (yadda yadda yadda weird contract idgaf), so no one in the right mind would indict a blind person without having knowledge that he can actually see, and it’s Lamiroir who’s actually blind. Also, again, he’s A CHILD who would not be strong enough to lift a man like LeTouse from Lamiroir’s dressing room, upstairs to the stage, then raising a lift, and being able to get himself back onto it, and I reiterate, the public believes that Machi is blind because that’s what they’re led to believe. All of these points can easily prove that Machi’s not the killer and yet it’s done anyways

[@ProsecutorZekrom]

@@toddelmsworth640 Klavier was never under the misconception that he was blind.

[@yoursonisold8743]

@@toddelmsworth640 More than the blindness, the fact that the gun used for the murder is *repeatedly* described to have recoil so bad that a grown man would injure their wrist wielding it and yet that doesn't clear Machi of the allegations is ludicrous. They even sort of address this by explaining why Machi _missed_ the shots. They say it's because of the recoil... the recoil that should have *shattered* his wrists! He has no injuries. This is a level of sloppy that would make even the average person cringe.

[@ManlyPlant]

I definitely agree and see your view point. There is however one flaw with DD and the new trilogy as a whole that really limits how well they *could* have written this. The fact that they just can't reference past events in previous games in any clear detail makes them feel so detached and awkward in some ways. Even though if they were it would only enhance what they were writing!

[@MagillanicaLouM]

Was there a reason given by the the writers why they couldn't more clearly call back to first trilogy events? It's been a while since I Ace Attorney'd outside GAA collection (looking forward to this upcoming one though, i didn't get to finish AJ before issues with my 3ds happened and I never got to play DD past a demo on the app store like 10 years ago lol) so maybe they do reference stuff more than i remember. In universe they have no issue calling back to events from over a decade prior to any given case, so the 7-9 years between AA3 and AA6 shouldn't be off the table. Curious if there's any statement in an interview or something.

[@fridaylambda3494]

It's because of the No Spoiler Rule. This rule is designed so that any random player can go into any game and play it without getting spoiled on the entire game's plot or events. It was done fairly lightly in the original series, but I'm guessing since AA4 didn't bring up AA1-3 at all, they figured it'd be problematic to mention anything pre-AJ. As a result, the issue became super prevalent as they couldn't connect any plot points together as effectively. It's a dumb rule, but one that makes sense as it allows the player to enter the series at any stage rather than requiring them to play it linearly.

[@shadowstar8619]

@@fridaylambda3494 That doesn't mean a lot of people wouldn't still prefer to play it linearly regardless of if that rule existed or not. And anyone who plays more than one game at random will still probably get confused in some fashion. If they, let's say, blindly enter the series by playing a post-timeskip game like Spirit of Justice or Dual Destinies and THEN play a pre-timeskip game like Justice for All or Investigations, I imagine there'd be a lot of questions about the timeline itself after doing so. New players would likely be not-so-subtly urged to seek out the full timeline and play linearly anyway. If the radical difference in casts between the two trilogies and certain hints in the games themselves wouldn't make it clear enough, most of the Japanese titles are outright numbered in direct sequence with each other even when the English titles aren't. It's like Capcom is trying to have their cake and eat it too, when it'd be just as easy to realize that the lack of reference to earlier titles is just making their full story feel stilted and episodic when there's supposed to be a bigger plot like the Dark Age of the Law happening in the background.

[@fridaylambda3494]

I will clarify that a lot of people will still play the games linearly. With the series now temporarily or permanently concluded especially, it's easy to see that people will play AA1-AA6 in direct order. However, as they were being made, the philosophy of the games were to be designed so as to not spoil plot points in previous installments. However, it still had the larger courtroom drama points that hinted at previous narrative elements that encourage players to consider playing the previous games to get that context. It's a design philosophy that's flawed but has been kept up over the years for some reason in Mainline AA. Compare this to TGA where TGA2 doesn't bother being subtle and outright references and spoils specific case information from TGA1. The philosophy there is that these games are chronological so it's expected that you played TGA1 and you're now playing TGA2. For a long time, though, AA didn't follow this philosophy which is why the trilogies feel like one complete story, but it's also clear that the main plot isn't building itself upon its own narrative. Instead, they're almost psuedo-seperate narratives that fit together to create a whole but aren't necessary to understand 80% of one game. The other 20% are context issues discussed in prior games. And it is that design philosophy that makes the Dark Age of the Law plot fall apart. Since it can't reference any previous games (minus a few hints), the game makes only references to two major cases as the start of this Era: Phoenix's disbarment and the UR-1 incident. As such, when both cases are resolved by the end, it magically ends the Dark Age while ignoring all the other deep seeded problems. Likewise, it doesn't take into any consideration true public perception or details that would truly put the Legal system to the test. Edgeworth had a very strong reputation for falsifying evidence in the past. His mentor literally went to jail for murder over a record. There's no way those rumors were quelled in 7 years and should have been instead increased to the point that as Chief Prosecutor Edgeworth would be treated to low approval ratings and deep seeded concern that the Prosecutor's office is now even more corrupt under his reign. Him helping to solve the UR-1 mystery with Phoenix shouldn't be seen as a triumphant solution but rather a frenzied fear and paranoia that they're both twisting the truth to suit their common desires (getting Blackquill and Athena non-guilty verdicts). That's at least how I'd see the Final Trial being perceived if Dual Destinies wasn't trapped under this design philosophy. As it currently is, Edgeworth's appearances give off an air of being scrubbed entirely of that aspect which runs counter to the concept itself. If Edgeworth is seen as a noble prosecutor, then the Dark Age isn't nearly as dark as they pretend it is (since his control over that sector would allow him to remove corrupt prosecutors from the bench). If he isn't, then his role in the most crucial case of DD doesn't come across as well since he should be seen with some distain and even concern of corruption. Plus, the Dark Age's primary causes being those two cases comes across as forced compared to this video's interpretation which shows just how bad things got and also shows how this can't just be scrubbed away like Edgeworth claims. The design philosophy and full scope of the games both don't mesh well in making the Dark Age a believable plot and as a result it falls apart. Which is why it comes across as a gimmick meant to make the plot feel more dramatic and exciting than actually dealing with the theme on any deep or meaningful level. At least that's how it feels to me since I have both viewpoints in mind (full scope vs. the standard narrative) since I see the design philosophy and narrative running counter to one another which ruins the very concept and makes it come across as a cheesy excuse for drama.

[@Kaempfdog]

Well we can't change what they did do, but that doesn't mean that what they did was thoughtless or aimless. We even acknowledge even with our interpretations there are problems with how they handled it. I still think that this franchise is not a dead one by any stretch. And there are definitely ways they can go in the future to further improve things. Could they remove that rule of no spoiling of previous games in the future so they can make their references more clear? Absolutely! And even if they don't they can find more clever ways to get around that. I want to find ways for people to have reason to go back to these games so they don't just write off these games as single plays.

[@CMW003]

I think the apollo/phoenix thing should be a way more focused on aspect of this trilogy. Have apollo very clearly defend from the standpoint of pursuing the truth, even if that means his client is guilty. And not in the way phoenix does where he starts from believing his client his innocent but have apollo start cases entirely willing to entertain the idea his client is guilty, due to the double betrayal of kristoph being the murderer and phoenix forging the card in 4-1 shattering his trust. Then have apollo be a bit resentful and jealous of phoenix being a better mentor to athena throughout dual destinies, with that and their clashing ideologies resulting in apollo having a "for all I know you would be willing to forge evidence to defend her" attitude in 5-5 and then spirit of justice being apollo learning that phoenix's starting point has merit-his two clients in that game are trucy and durke, people he would trust implicitly, but ultimately reach the conclusion he does anyway-to break off from phoenix and start his own path but with the two finally being on much better terms by the end. It gives apollo a more consistent, interesting arc. Hell it is kind of there already i guess i just want it to be more apparent and more the dedicated focus of the trilogy. Ramble on one of the many ideas i have for apollo being treated better in what capcom wants us to believe his his trilogy aside, great video exploring a really interesting plot element in the series that while i think could have been handled better (maybe even something as minor as not making means' name means would have helped 5-3 feel less forceful) is still a really cool aspect of aa4 and aa Edit:i didnt fully articulate myself properly here and probably sounded like i was just reiterating what you said about their arc together but eh Further edit:never actually considered how the way fulbright acts throughout the game pertaining to blackquill is kinda fucked and part of his long-term plan. Thats really cool!

[@dawgman6654]

"Have apollo very clearly defend from the standpoint of pursuing the truth, even if that means his client is guilty" Especially since almost all of Apollo's clients in his first game were criminals, just not guilty of the crime they were charged of.

[@CMW003]

@@dawgman6654 yeah that's a really good point actually. Phoenix and forging, wocky being a yakuza (was there something more specific?) Machi and smuggling and then Vera and forging. Could have made apollo way more unique than a mildly more cynical and put upon phoenix

[@GambeTama]

@@dawgman6654 I have played Apollo justice for YEARS, and that never occurred to me. Holy hells, this guy cannot catch a break, can he XD

[@StrawberryQuestions]

Thank you!! I absolutely love Apollo, and his personal stance in the legal system is so interesting to me! He seems to be a closer mirror to EDGEWORTH then Phoenix, and I love their “searching for the truth at any cost” attitude towards the law, versus Athena and Phoenix becoming lawyers primarily to save someone (both are cool reasons, I just have a lot of thoughts about how that impacts dynamics lol)

[@CMW003]

@@StrawberryQuestions the amount of thoughts I've had regarding apollo and phoenix's relationship across the "apollo justice trilogy" just make me so sad they threw apollo as a protagonist away before we ever had him. Like it's arguable the only game where he's *the* main character is soj and he's only playable in two cases. Capcom forcing takumi to include phoenix more in aa4, then immediately bringing him back as main character and introducing athena in aa5 means you really have to dig for any consistency regarding apollo and his relationships. I totally agree that apollo feels almost like what if edgeworth made the switch to defending with his absolute focus on the truth rather than the emphasis on defence. I wish we got to see apollo and edgeworth bounce off each other in court but apollo would probably? Have to win the case and capcom isn't letting anyone other than phoenix face edgeworth, never mind beat him, now they're rivalry is such a franchise selling point. Hopefully the illusive aa7 is a game that let's athena be the main character she deserves to be for her and apollos sake

[@emperor_penguin7667]

What an amazing video. While I never really mocked the Dark Age of the Law in the past, I was often confused by what it was trying to say, even if I understood bits and pieces of it. Overall this really helped organize everything. Great analysis, and a nice bit of theorizing at the end. Massive props!

[@beterbomen]

I really like this explanation. I just have one thing to comment on: I thought the "Dark Age of the Law" had been going on for a lot longer than Dual Destinies. Like, it went on for the entire seven years that Phoenix was disbarred. They mention in DD that, after Phoenix was caught forging evidence, and Blackquill was convicted of murder, that's when the media started their attack on the courts. That means it is already going on during Apollo Justice, which might explain Apollo's "what's the point of a legal system that protects criminals?!" question he asks during 4-3. It would also explain Blackquill's place n to the "dark age". Yes, prosecutors had been found guilty before (which, as you pointed out, was part of the reason why this whole mess was happening), but Blackquill being found guilty so shortly after Phoenix's disbarment, when it would still be fresh in people's minds, was the final straw. That's when the camel's back broke, and people lost all faith in the legal system. By the way, I love your theory about Retinz. That's genius.

[@serge263]

To be fair, it was set up as early as the second case in the first game (story wise) but it had been building in-universe for decades. The appearance/presence of The Phantom, Phoenix's disbarment and Blackquill's guilty verdict was just the final push it needed to solidify.

[@GattoCatto_]

I absolutely love your Retinz theory! With it it makes the weird media reaction to the Dark Age of the Law make a lot more sense. Though to me it's weird that everyone pretends the corruption is immediately gone now; it isn't obviously. I feel like that's a weird part about the ending of Dual Destinies. The system is still stacked heavily against the defense. Well- anyway! I'm really happy that you made this video. The 3D games get honestly overhated at times and it really bums out. So i'm grateful for all the AA:DD (and some AA:SOJ) appreciation!

[@mutanttepig4759]

To be fair Edgeworth did go out of his way to root out the corrupt attorneys and get them out of there. Most of the corruption is somewhat gone and the good attorneys are going out of their way to root out the still corrupt lawyers in the system.

[@Kaempfdog]

Well our hope is that it's not gone completely. SoJ just has a lot more focus out of countrry. Prof. Means is a really great way to further the corruption. The point being is I think it is safe to say Phoenix and Blackquill are free of that corruption scrutiny. It's all up to AA7 to find a good direction to choose in the future. And one of the best things that can be done is to separate the characters a bit more so they can have their own adventures and paths that come together. Will Phoenix and Apollo collide again? Definitely not impossible. Who knows how Apollo's lineage relevance will play out. Will Phoenix further his arc becoming a better mentor? Will Athena be allowed to have more major development? There's PLENTY to explore, but they gotta be careful where they use characters going forward. Ace Attorney has TONS of potential even without full introductions to new characters. It's not a dead franchise by any means.

[@thattimestampguy]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="333">5:33</a> Phoenix Wright vs Kristoph Gavin - Manfred Von Karma - Damon Gant - Luke Atmey - Kristoph Gavin <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="489">8:09</a> The Forged Diary Page 📄 <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="542">9:02</a> Exposing Kristoph Gavin’s plot. <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="615">10:15</a> The Legal System has lost trust and faith. <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="680">11:20</a> Ted Tonate <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="707">11:47</a> Florent L’belle <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="730">12:10</a> Professor Means <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="937">15:37</a> Apollo Justice <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1164">19:24</a> Apollo’s loss of his good friend, Clay Terran. <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1398">23:18</a> Simon Blackquill vs The Phantom. <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1766">29:26</a> Roger Retinz

[@youmeltube]

I love seeing more videos like this crop up that actually elaborate on how AA4, 5 and 6 fit together - you do an excellent job here tying AA4 and 5 in particular together. I would have liked to see more discussion on AA6 in particular though beyond the Retinz theory - as cool as it is, its sadly not really hinted at much directly. What I think is far more interesting in terms of AA6s place in the Dark age of Law trilogy is how Khura'in and its important people serve as direct mirror reflections of the mainland - as a peek into what would've happened to Japanifornia had Phoenix, Apollo and Athena not exposed the truth of the Dark Age of Law in AA4 and 5. Nahyuta is an Apollo who never learned to trust others - Dhurke is a Phoenix who was never able to bring his kids into a brighter law world - Inga is an Edgeworth who was never able to escape the manipulative control of his superior, and Ga'ran is a Von Karma who was able to use the power of forged evidence and manipulation of the masses to their total whim.

[@jaredinocovers9968]

Reading this comment blew my mind. It’s given me a new appreciation for the Khura’in side of things!

[@Kaempfdog]

SoJ is luckily a bit better on being a continuation from 5 to 6 than 4 to 5. (Namely by forcing Athena to the background and focusing more on Phoenix and Apollo making it more clear they are repairing their relationship throughout the game while Phoenix works to do more repairing to the spirit channelling hierarchy.) The cool reflection of characters in Khurai’in is neat, but it’s a bit more meant to be a dark reflection of the Feys. Ga’ran is more or less successful Morgan Fey, Amara is Misty forced into hiding but more to the benefit not the detriment of Ga’ran like Misty was for Morgan, Inga is the Hawthorne Father gunning for power (but with care for his daughter/niece) which in turn creates Rayfa being the Iris willing to stand up to her family’s dark chaos. And Nahyuta…well. Wouldn’t call him a Dahlia, but erasing his past was what she did to be her own monster. And for him he became a lost soul without it all. (Executed very, VERY poorly but I think that was MEANT to be the reflection) Dhurke is still the Phoenix trying nonstop to break Amara, Rayfa, and Nahyuta away just as Phoenix worked to break Misty, Maya, Iris, and Pearl free of their messed up family. And Misty only in passing. It’s a tough thing to speak of in one comment that’s for sure.

[@cannonballking7]

This is a fantastic discussion of a plotline I think gets a bad rap. Good to see that you are taking Ace Attorney discussion in an interesting and thoughtful direction, keep up the good work, and have a nice day.

[@JJ_R]

Missed an opportunity to say this plot line gets a _Bum_ rap.

[@cannonballking7]

@@JJ_R Ok fair point, you've got me there. GG No Re

[@PreludePursuit]

Got so excited seeing this notification! I'd been looking forward to this as someone who didn't really care as much for Dual Destinies and this plot, but the way you've contextualised everything really does make me appreciate it more! Especially the way you've roped in Roger Retinz in this, I already really enjoyed his character and that case, but the way you've had him tied into the bigger publications of the Dark Age of The Law makes everything flow so well. It makes perfect sense with what was established for his character, and I think viewing the Dark Age of The Law with that context creates something that feels more natural to me. This really lived up to the excitement I had for it when I first heard you were making it, I'm really anticipating your next videos!

[@Staruo356]

The fact you mentioned that Gaspen was the only prosecutor to be corrupt during the Dark Age of the Law made me think about the fact that he tried to force the death penalty onto his former opponent and a child after becoming Chief Prosecutor in Khura'in only a few months later. Maybe prosecutor Payne really is the most corrupt character in the 3DS duology and we just don't know the true limit of his chicanery.

[@Kaempfdog]

You know I was JUST speculating with my brother what if they ACTUALLY made Gaspen the next intro killer with how he was a jerk in 5-1, searches for literal DEATH in the name of his vanity in 6-1, and 7-1 he just crosses the line entirely. I think that would be really interesting

[@runningoncylinders3829]

Kristoph dude, so much cooler in concept than you actually experience him in AJ the game. AJ is integral to DD, and it’s disappointing to me that Wright’s portrayal wasn’t a better extension of his AJ self.

[@Kaempfdog]

While I admit it’s not as clear as it should be, I once again blame it on DD’s timeline. When you pay attention to Phoenix’s arc and the timing of his development, 5-1 fits in his transformation to combine his 1st trilogy and AJ self. Which is what he ultimately is using on Apollo in 6-5. BUT the fact they start near the END of his reconciling is the wrench in nearly EVERYONE’S issues with DD. As for Kristoph, I still love his character portrayal throughout and I only find him more fascinating with the Black Psychlock lore. Is he taken down unceremoniously? I don’t even think so. For the guy to be so upset about who Phoenix is and try and derail his life for existing as it does, and to get taken down by what I consider to be the best bluff in the franchise to make him LOSE HIS MIND was just awesome. And at the pit of it all, Kristoph realizes HE is the broken one. And he’s the ONLY killer reveal in this franchise I think was implemented well. But I also have a much higher opinion of 4-4 compared to most

[@runningoncylinders3829]

@@Kaempfdog The Mason System is the biggest hurdle for 4-4 aside from it being the second time that you defeat Kristoph in a relatively swift court appearance. His role and the case itself do deserve praise even so. Mason System gets a lot of misunderstanding as to how evidence can be passed across time skips. I’m just thinking it’s why people aren’t giving the gold stars to 4-4 like earlier finales, or Apollo’s role in it compared to Wright’s. When the time comes I’ll have to get the scoop on Mason, unless you can point to a really good resource on it already out there.

[@Kaempfdog]

@@runningoncylinders3829 XD funny you mention that. My next project like this video is going to be me organizing the Mason System. I’ve done it a good dozen times, and now all of 4-4 makes a lot more sense to me than many others. And the only reason I ALLOWED 4-4 to drop to #10 on our case ranking is because I had to just accept that you will NEVER find the info without SEVERAL playthroughs. Not 1 or 2, SEVERAL. As for the short court appearance, when the entire investigation is building up to the bluff of the decade, Apollo’s role was ultimately small because there’s no way this info could be discovered in court. Every escape route was already sealed off the moment the trial began. And when Kristoph took the same strategy so many other killers used, you didn’t go off topic to get them to say more than they should because there was no longer a need to. It’s what makes it so cathartic for Apollo to do the EXACT SAME THING to Phoenix in 5-5, and all of Phoenix’s go to counter arguments have already been sealed off, forcing him to make a 1st trilogy bluff to escape Apollo’s accusation.

[@ErroneousNickname]

Great vid with a stellar premise. I think theres other things you didn't mention, like how in his lowest moment, Apollo has a unique sprite where he poses like Kristoph and says "Evidence is everything in court" showing that he has truly lost all faith in phoenix' teachings and gone back to what he learned from his first mentor. The game absolutely proves that it is picking up thematically from Apollo Justice here. Then theres Edgeworth in the background pulling strings as chief prosecutor, the events of AAI2 also eroding faith in the legal system, him getting Phoenix's attorney badge back, and Edgeworth weeding out corruption from the prosecutors office. The thing about weeding out corruption in a legal system is it makes it known to the public that corruption was there in the first place, when people are getting fired left and right (as we see with Gaspen getting fired at the end), and strings are actively being pulled to give falsely accused people like Phoenix and Simon second chances, this would absolutely be noticed and twisted by the media. AA5 doesn't have to directly reference and pick up on plot points of AA4 to be a worthy sequel, rather it decides to do so thematically and through subtext, and is a stronger game for it. Its a shame the games intro case and second case gives the game such a poor introduction, because its an incredible game that doesn't deserve the hate it gets. I prefer this method of storytelling to be honest, we do not need direct reference to plot points for it to be a cohesive thematic trilogy.

[@calliefromoctober]

the theory about retinz is so good i wish they confirmed it in canon

[@Kaempfdog]

I can’t tell you how happy I was when we found the 6-2 show literally focused on thrashing celebrities on whether their rumors were true or not. It fit PERFECTLY and Retinz was already strong without that dialogue.

[@Asmodeus-D4rk]

@@Kaempfdog Kinda makes me wish for a Gramarye-focused game with Retinz being the final foe. They're one hell of a messed-up family and we need to find out more about them.

[@crocogators]

This is such a brilliant analysis! You totally gave a me a whole new appreciation for the second trilogy. Well done!

[@MtelH]

This was a great video. I loved how you brought attention to the "Dark Age of the Law" and how its origins go as far back as even the first AA game. Very well done!

[@nickb1211]

Really excited to see another video from you! Awesome stuff. Side note though, I always took Blackquill's "part" in the dark age to be that a prosecutor was themselves caught committing murder. And all of that coming on the back of what had previously gone down with Phoenix and Gavin as you pointed out. Just how I read it.

[@TheLeone3600]

Im glad Phoenix’s treatment of Apollo is brought up. Because Phoenix literally treats Athena better than Apollo and it frustrates me so much

[@UndercookedRice-o3o]

Wow, this video is great. Hearing the "Dark Age of the Law" explained like this does make the AJ Trilogy feel a lot more cohesive.

[@AshNRoses4409]

I was already a fan of Retinz and 6-2 in general, but I had never thought how well it fittef with the rest of the trilogy. You did a great job explaining the Dark Age of the Law (much better than the games) so I'm just. Going to pretend everything in this video is the real canon. Great job!

[@Kaempfdog]

XD we took our jabs at what could have been finessed to make it work better. But it does sew up a LOT of continuity issues most have with the 2nd trilogy.

[@dropthebates]

Amazing video! Great work! I have always adored the Apollo Justice trilogy and the themes they tackle in those games. I’ve always felt disappointed that there seems to be a large number of people in the AA community that don’t find Apollo’s trilogy to be as good as the original but I always found it to be very good and right up there with it! Also 6-2 is one of my favorite cases in the series and your theory on how Roger could potentially tie into so many other threads of the trilogy is so cool and makes a lot of sense! I’m excited for the other videos you have in the works, especially the Apollo Justice video you mentioned at the end!

[@SassyServine17]

I've always found the dark law timeline rather interesting! Thanks for making a video on it!

[@SquidInkPizza]

Ace Attorney is my all time favorite game series, and Dual Destinies is my favorite of the main six games. I really appreciate you for making this video, as it explains everything I loved about the Dark Ages plotline and why it works. And, I also want to agree with you on the Retinz theory. Trials and Tribulations had two cases that gave us some context on Mia as a character, and helped to expand the lore of the first 2 games perfectly. So your theory on Retinz having a hand in the spur of the Dark Ages makes a ton of sense. Kudos.

[@alexane.b]

Thank you so much for making this video, you're told everything I've been thinking for years. I love the second trilogy just like the first one, it's way more coherent than it seems. Your videos are so enjoyable, thank you for your work

[@Kaempfdog]

I do think coherent might not be the best word here but it’s strength is definitely as strong as the 1st. And the retcons of the 2nd trilogy make it SO much stronger when the entire context is taken into regard.

[@analysissel]

The biggest problem with the Ace Attorney series' writing is its complete lack of continuity in the narrative. The game itself does not smoothly develop, discuss, or demonstrate the connections that essayists like you have to argue, and that's why understandings such as Apollo Justice being disjointed from Dual Destinies arise; Dual Destinies does not mention the Jurist System, Kristoph Gavin, or anything else that happened in Apollo Justice except for Phoenix being disbarred and now reinstated, which is touched on very briefly. When it comes to establishing themes or undertones such as "the justice system is unfair," it's okay to leave it somewhat unspoken, as you demonstrate through countless examples all throughout the series. In fact, that's what you're supposed to do: Show, Don't Tell. But story arcs and plot threads, on the other hand, namely the Dark Age of the Law that Dual Destinies throws around all the time, do not have that luxury. They need to be more clearly demonstrated. Leaving it up to the player to try and piece together these loosely connected events to try and maintain some semblance of continuity in the plot threads is just poor, poor practice. What upsets me most is that your essay shows just how easy it would have been to make the narrative more cohesive. If the writing had been a bit louder in what it was trying to say, and not seemingly (emphasis on seemingly, because your argument that plot threads are being continued, just not explicitly, holds water) dropping entire ideas and talking points, this 'misunderstanding' would not be so prevalent. The weakest part of your argument though, all told, is your showing that the continuous nature of the Dark Age of the Law follows through from the existing court system in previous titles (original trilogy and Apollo Justice); this contributes to a complaint that I've heard from many criticizers of Dual Destinies, that is, why is it a Dark Age of the Law, now, when it has seemingly always been this corrupt? I think you show quite clearly enough that Apollo Justice is a good enough launchpad for the point to culminate in Dual Destinies, but your slightly sarcastic allusions to the previous games sprinkled all throughout the video is frankly grating with how jarringly crippling it is to your point. My end point is this: I think you're right. But I don't think it's fair to try and excuse this shabby storyline as being up to standard. It deserves to be criticized because it is very loosely pieced together, and the only ones at fault for this misunderstood plotline is the writers. It's shouldn't be the job of players like you to argue these links. Now onto some more positivity! I am absolutely GLOWING at your "Apollo Justice vs. Phoenix Wright" section. It is cathartic to hear someone say, out loud, just how poorly treated our horned lawyer is by Phoenix throughout his tenure at the law office. Every time I'm in Apollo's perspective I just get this overwhelming feeling of frustration with Phoenix- which is probably intentional! I think it works well in the writing, EXCEPT for that one time in Apollo Justice, where Phoenix says, "I knew you could do it." Apollo asks, "Really?" And Phoenix grunts, "Not really." That moment in particular was severely disheartening and a black spot on what I otherwise thought was an interesting dynamic of irresponsibility on Phoenix's part- it fits, but went a too far making Phoenix unapologetically abrasive. Seeing their relationship recover through the end of Dual Destinies and then Spirit of Justice was very satisfying. Your Simon Blackquill vs. the Phantom section is amazing. A fantastic analysis I truly cannot argue has any real issues, on your part or the writers'. I think if you isolated JUST this section, you could easily have made the essay on its own; to me, this section is what defines the Dark Age in the context of Dual Destinies. Because, like I'd brought up earlier, the court system was ALWAYS corrupt; and, like you beautifully analyzed, Blackquill, despite being a convict, was an anti-corruption prosecutor using his position to hunt after The Phantom, the whole time, with any real shadow he cast over the court system being naught but an exaggeration cast from the lamp placed behind the samurai by Fulbright, himself. tl;dr: Good essay. I'm just not very excited at the prospect of excusing the faults of this series' writing as a mere lack of understanding. Most of this comment is a vent about the series, and not your video, here.

[@Kaempfdog]

I can’t deny that the franchise likes to find holes in its writing and build off of it to stop a leak in the dam. That is true. My point being what the series does to fill those cracks shouldn’t be underestimated. We acknowledge there ARE absolutely things that should have been handled better in it. From the DD timeline, and a few character placements that could have been utilized better. But that does NOT reflect on the character arcs. The character arcs all become better. And improve drastically with new context and it was clearly the prime focus. And the dark age while not handled the best DOES accomplish it’s job. That’s how I view it anyway. The most important thing is to show that the 2nd trilogy performs best with its full context BECAUSE of the holes they plug in. And it goes back to the point we made in our original big ranking. This is a franchise you should absolutely play more than once because of how context and retcons can IMPROVE what came prior.

[@analysissel]

@@Kaempfdog that is true! When I was younger I vastly underestimated the replayability of visual novels. Fellas like you help correct that.

[@Exlayer-pk8hy]

That's the difference between Takumi's games and Yamazaki's games. In Takumi's games they leave just enough breadcrumbs in the narrative so that they can make a more seamless followup later, as shown with the Phoenix wright twilogy and the Great ace attorney duology. In Yamazaki's games they feel so disjointed because they were written to be self contained stories.

[@SmashSSL]

@@Exlayer-pk8hy Investigations and Prosecutor's Path are cohesive.

[@juanyusee8197]

​​@@SmashSSLYeah, if anything it proves that the No-Spoiler Rule thing is largely on Capcom, not Yamazaki.

[@natyfop]

Braaaaavooooo! I agree with you 100%, man! Never thought about Retinz that way, but it does fit very well with everything that had been established to that point! I really liked Dual Destinies and its plot about the consequences of the Kristoph vs. Phoenix shitshow, I just wish the writing and dialogues more direct about this point instead of repeating those vague catchphrases constantly. It would have been very interesting to see Phoenix coming to terms with everything he had done (even if he never felt any sort of regret or doubt, it would be cool if he had internal monologue about it, see?). And it would be cool if Prof. Means had said out loud that he viewed Phoenix's actions in AA4 as validation for his ideology, and that's why he invited Phoenix to give a lecture at the academy. But I was already satisfied to see all that conflict among the characters being implied in DD, just like you explained here, even if it wasn't explained very eloquently in the game itself. Great job with this video! Can't wait for the next one!

[@Kaempfdog]

I won’t deny the problems in the Dark Age, but the pros FAR outweigh the cons. It’s issues are minor but do create problems. The only more major one is the timeline issue from DD. Other than that it comes down to nitpicks…that somehow completely overshadowed the amazing character arcs that people frequently overlook. The retcons of the 2nd trilogy VASTLY improve its overall performance. And it’s what makes the 2nd trilogy so replayable.

[@natyfop]

@@Kaempfdog 👏👏👏

[@rhythmlessroxby]

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS VIDEO. I've been really pulling for the amazing consistency that the 2nd trilogy brought even despite the way they treat information between games. This is so well explained & only nuanced my positive feelings toward the underrated half of this series :)

[@pixellego4773]

KEEP UP THE AA CONTENT! The long form videos like the case ranking and this one are super cool

[@FishyFishy_]

Thx so much for documenting all of this! I didnt get most of this back when I played DD on release, and gives a ton of new perspectives on it :)

[@aureliodeprimus8018]

I considered Roger Retinz to be the biggest bastard of the series already (yes, even bigger than Hawthorne or Engarde) due to him being so absolutely petty, but this theory puts it on a whole new level. Props to you, dog.^^ Lets hope that Athenas trilogy begins soon.^^

[@Kaempfdog]

I’m hoping the AJ trilogy moving up to Switch is them setting the stage for that!

[@aureliodeprimus8018]

@@Kaempfdog Jup, i actually had an idea what the Prosecutor for Athenas first game could be (since for some reason it always has to be a new one nowadays). Since it is mentioned that Athena studied abroad in Europe (not sure if it the japanese version says otherwise), i had the idea of one of her old professors taking up the mantle (or sharing it with Blackquill). He would be in his late 60s and a by-the-books veteran prosecutor with his only "gimmick" being that he is mostly unfazed by the usual courtroom antics (and hilariosly aggravated once his contenance breaks). Being Athenas former teacher, he serves as a strict, no-nonsense prosecutor similar to Manfred von Karma, but also helps Athena if she suffers from stage fright like in the case with Means, reminding her of former breathing techniques he taught her to overcome it and also mercilessly shutting down witnesses/perpetrators who try to take advantage of her condition. During investigations he would fully cooperate with Athena and Phoenix, under a strict "as long as you don`t disturb the crime scene"-policy and a bit of a nostalgic old man, reminiscing about "his brightest student".

[@Asmodeus-D4rk]

@@Kaempfdog The only thing left now is the Investigations duology getting a remake + finally official release outside of Japan for 2 and we're golden

[@RashFaustinho]

That was a fantastic essay! Also it's refreshing hearing someone actually liking and discussing the Apollo Justice trilogy

[@typicalguy5231]

Nice to see you again! Your ace attorney discussions are very good compared to other channels. Keep up the good work!

[@Devilsblight86]

You put this more eloquently than many of us could. Now if you'll excuse me, my copy of Apollo Justice Trilogy just came in the mail. Time to enjoy them all over again!

[@novohart1928]

Fnx for this video. I was waiting for it)

[@zero1zerolast393]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="254">4:14</a> Technically, Von Karma was never convicted. He was going to be, but unfortunately his metabolic life signs ceased before that happen

[@Kaempfdog]

Wait is this just a joke on Edgeworth’s amazing word choice in 3-5 or did Manfred actually die before his conviction?

[@zero1zerolast393]

@Kaempfdog It both. As far as I'm aware, Von Karma died a few days aftering being arrested, with there being no definitive answer if he went to trial or not.

[@Kaempfdog]

@@zero1zerolast393 oh that’s cool actually. I guess a perfectionist would struggle with more than a flaw is the pain of loss. In this case the much more petty variety but it still fits.

[@HyperGirl81]

I think Apollo should have went on his own path and become a prosecutor it would be interesting plus him learning from Simon Blackquill and using that in combination with his perceive abilty would make him scary to face.😊

[@chelseah4652]

OMG I MISSED YOU GUYS! So happy to have you back on here!

[@d1nesh._223]

Let's be real Excepting some brilliant plan thought out in advance Only to get greeted with "random bullshit go" is great

[@JosephSciola]

With Klavier having attended Themis Legal Academy and mentored by Constance Courte, as seen in 5-3, it is entirely possible that Kristoph attended the school as well and may been taught by Prof. Means, which is how he came to the frame-up plan so quickly. It's one giant domino effect.

[@NotAGoodUsername360]

It always bothered me why Dual Destinies makes Blackquill going to death row as a murderer to be a bigger deal than Von Karma, Gant, Godot, Portsman, Roland, and (Blaize) Debeste. All those would be a MUCH bigger deal than one low-ranking prosecutor! You have not only the Chief of Police, but also 3 completely separate incidents of prosecutors getting convicted of murder (one of whom murdered a detective), the warden of the prison, AND the goddamn DA equivalent all going to jail for murder! But BLACKQUILL is supposed to be the one that broke the public's trust in the justice system?!? I have to wonder if it's the "no previous game spoilers" rule getting in the way here. You could honestly have a throwaway "Blackquill and a number of other prosecutors have been convicted of murder" line to explain that Blackquill was merely point where people started to suspect that these weren't isolated incidents and indicative that the justice system is knowingly letting murderers file charges against innocent people for their own crimes.

[@Asmodeus-D4rk]

Also there's Kristoph with the whole scheme, Phoenix himself with accusations of using forged evidence. Maybe Blackquill was the straw that broke the camel's back? But honestly, the entire legal system proved to be a circus a long time ago.

[@apossiblyhereticalalphaleg3595]

To be fair, if the public got full wind of at least Godot's case, I feel like a non-insignificant amount of people would see him as a sympathetic criminal. The rest though? Yeah that's all a long string of damning culprits to have.

[@JJ_R]

Wow! I’m actually early for one of these! When I really think about it, this video makes me think that Capcom probably should’ve named the Apollo Justice Trilogy “The Dark Age of the Law Trilogy”. Although Apollo is the main character of that trilogy, Phoenix’s silhouette is the one on 5’s & 6’s title cards, and Athena’s introduction (which I feel was way too early) kinda takes the spotlight away from him. However, the one constant in the 2nd trilogy is the Dark Age of the Law, so I feel like that would be a better name for it. With Apollo Justice having the player deal with Phoenix’s disbarment, and the all-around darker tone of the game itself, it’s easy to feel the darkness emanating from every case in that game; a widely renowned attorney pinning a murder on a once-renowned attorney, the death of a doctor involved with the mafia, a law enforcer pinning the murder of an undercover agent on a child, and a forger suspected of murdering her own father. It felt like a taste of things to come, and it sure came, like you pointed out. I truly was taken in by the Phantom’s shenanigans. I honestly never realized, despite claiming to be on Simon’s side, how the Phantom sparked fear of him into everyone. All to ruin his credibility. The Phantom does the same thing to Athena during 5-5, by casting doubt on her Mood Matrix in front of the audience who still have doubts about the legal system. It was all done to save his own neck, by having everyone ignore the ones whose images he ruined. I remember you talking about Roger in one of our discussions, and you brought up some of what you mention here. While it’s not confirmed in the games themselves, it makes enough sense that I can have it in my head-canon. I honestly can’t come up with a better reason for the Dark Age of the Law to have come up as late as it did, other than what you’ve presented here. I feel like the lighter tone of Dual Destinies, when compared to Apollo Justice, could be a contributing factor into why most people disregard the Dark Age of the Law (as a footnote in the series), especially since it seemingly came and went with Dual Destinies, a game with my biggest complaint being the lack of character cameos from Apollo Justice. However, it’s still an important time during the series itself, and it’s why I’m starting to feel like the Apollo Justice Trilogy should’ve been named “The Dark Age of the Law Trilogy”… but that’s just me.

[@Kaempfdog]

I’m going to be using this analogy from now on. Ace Attorney finds cracks in the dam of its writing and plugs them in later to strengthen the whole thing. And the 2nd trilogy is the ABSOLUTE KING of that. They find the SLIGHTEST spot to make their leap off of and it truly helps plug everything up more nicely. And it makes the 2nd trilogy right on par with the 1st when the full trilogy has its entire context. While for story plot it’s a bit rougher, the character writing doesn’t suffer in the slightest once the context gets plugged in. Basically the 2nd trilogy is very good at retcons.

[@JJ_R]

@@Kaempfdog A bit off topic, but if there’s anything about 6-2 I would adjust, it’d be adding an epilogue ending. I’ll set the stage, so as to not reveal the reason until the end. The time & date are unknown, but the location is a Solitary Cell (Not one as nice is Kristoph’s). Roger gets a visitor. The visitor’s name is never revealed, but Roger is disgusted at the sight of them. They apologize for meeting under these circumstances, to which Roger scoffs at. The visitor, though keeping their composure, is upset towards Roger’s actions, and claims that they always wanted him to shine as a proper magician. Roger, again, scoffs at them, claiming they’re lying, and then laughs towards his self-imposed victory over the Gramaryes, once again. The visitor then points out a flaw in Roger’s optimism, by saying he was actually beaten by someone of Gramarye blood. Roger doesn’t believe them, but then the visitor shows him proof; her wrist, one of which has a bracelet, while the other one doesn’t, asking Roger if he remembers that she once had two of them. Roger does, and he asks where the other one is. The visitor says someone inherited the other one, and he should’ve seen who was wearing it throughout the case. It takes Roger a few moments to realize the meaning behind this visit, much to his shock & horror. And the visitor, before leaving, says that her father had an eye for magical talent. She has them, her daughter has them, and her son Apollo has them as well. The screen fades to black, as Roger yells in frustration over his defeat. I know, it’s a nitpick, but I still feel irked about Roger feeling triumphant, and I was expecting him to get one-upped at the end of the case, or the end of the game, since Thalasa does appear at the end. Out of curiosity, is there anything you’d change about my fictional scenario? Do you think it’s even worth including?

[@Kaempfdog]

@@JJ_R oh I LOVE that! That’s super good! When did you come up with that? That clearly has a lot of thought put into it! I was thinking along the lines of Valant being involved, but his show has already ended. I can’t say what I would change without serious thought put into this, but what you have is a 10/10.

[@JJ_R]

@@Kaempfdog To answer your question, the thought process started sometime after Spirit of Justice’s U.S release. With every other villain in Ace Attorney, they were always humbled by our hero (I’d say defense attorney, but I’m also including both Investigations games). Even Dahlia got hers by the end of Trials & Tribulations. Roger was the only outlier. I thought I missed a revelation that would turn that laughter into tears, when I saw a comment on a 6-2 video, reminding me that Roger was wrong, and that he was defeated by a Gramarye. That’s when my brain went to work. Honestly, until a few months ago, I had this exact scenario in mind, but with Phoenix instead, only visiting to get back at Roger for framing Trucy for murder. However, it would’ve required much more proof on Phoenix’s part. Proof which Thalasa wouldn’t need much of to convince Roger her words were true.

[@SmashSSL]

"Apollo is the main character of that trilogy" Not quite.

[@Posterchild19]

YEEEESSS I've been waiting for this!

[@ollier8257]

What a fantastic analysis!! Having only played the Apollo Justice Trilogy for the first time recently, I had not even realised yet the extent of Fullbrights influence and manipulation of our perspective over all of Dual Destinies. This video has definitely made me think better of Dual Destinies (not that I thought it was bad like many seem to). Your Retinz theory is really interesting too!

[@Theshininggem]

I kinda wish that if they pick up the series again, the dark age of the law would still be going on. Although not as bad as in Duel destinies, there was still some tension and backlash with some corruption up in the air. It‘lol hopefully take the plot line more seriously as it’s not out of the way yet.

[@LittleMissRequiem]

One possible way I could see this happen might be to make use of a MAJOR flaw in Edgeworth's policy decisions in Spirit of Justice, specifically in response to how he handled the severe prosecutor shortage in the aftermath of the Dark Age of the Law. Not to criticize the shortage itself, mind you. It's heavily implied that the entire Prosecutor's Office was so full of corruption that cleaning it out completely required Edgeworth to fire every corrupt prosecutor he could find, even if it meant leaving the Office as a whole temporarily understaffed. OK, fair enough so far. Edgeworth is simply fulfilling his responsibility as Chief Prosecutor to clean up the Prosecutor's Office. And with how much shamelessly blatant corruption we've seen throughout the entire Ace Attorney series to various degrees, I am not the least bit surprised that the Prosecutor's Office was left THAT severely understaffed by the time he was done. *But where, oh where, did Edgeworth get the bright idea to import FOREIGN PROSECUTORS to fill in the vacancies?* If I was a political consultant for someone running against Edgeworth for Chief Prosecutor next election cycle, my first bit of advice would be to emphasize how much of a national security disaster this kind of policy is. Bringing in foreign prosecutors to prosecute domestic cases inevitably leaves the domestic judicial system vulnerable to foreign influence, and that's assuming the foreigners really are prosecutors and not secretly spies/assassins/etc. sent by foreign governments with ulterior motives in mind! Worst-case scenario, one day Edgeworth will "disappear" as foreign agents proceed to secretly take over the Prosecutor's Office from within. And do I even need to explain how letting a loyalist from the Kingdom of Khura'in, a dictatorship where due process is nonexistent and lawyers are viciously persecuted, prosecute a Japanifornian criminal case is a really bad idea all around? (To be fair, Nahyuta himself stayed reasonably within the boundaries to be expected of an Ace Attorney prosecutor, but there's no guarantee that the other foreign prosecutors would be quite so honorable.) Having said that, I could definitely picture an AA7 storyline in which the aforementioned policy flaw leads to some juicy international intrigue, as the protagonists (Edgeworth, Wright, and/or their respective protégés) have to stop the Phantom's newest successor who has just infiltrated the Prosecutor's Office.

[@AE86FTS]

Wow, as someone who always shunned the idea behind the Dark Age of the Laws, I can say that you convinced me that the writers may have known what they were doing more than I have given them credit for. While I still believe Dual Destinies doesn't do that good of a job actually presenting the main ideas behind the Dark Age, the building blocks were there. I have always stated that my main hope for an AA7 would be for the story to truly follow up on everything in the "Apollo Trilogy" and tie up all loose ends. Watching this really reignited my hopes in that regard

[@larajamila005]

That part about Retinz actually makes so much sense! And you know, we actually have precedence for this! The DL-6 incident was never supposed to be publicized, but Redd White was the one responsible for leaking it, making the media suddenly pay attention to it and causing the disappearance of Misty Fey

[@klh0203]

Nice video, always love seeing appreciation for the more recent games!

[@lizflessert2427]

And when the Law needed him most, he returned.

[@Kinsume1]

it really did help me understand the whole plotline better, thanks for spelling it out

[@Klemeron]

me powerfully circling the the Not In Text option text comprehention exercize over and over again

[@wolfywonder8480]

Not necessary a comment on the video itself, but it did get me thinking- Each AA game has a theme to it, and these themes all tie together into not only the two trilogies, but the entire series as a whole. PWAA is about being a beacon of hope to those trapped in the darkness. It reflects the main motivator of its protagonist, and every case showcases this. Larry would’ve undoubtedly been given up on by any other attorney, Maya would most certainly been found guilty if not for Phoenix’s unique situation, Edgeworth never would’ve helped take down Vasquez if Phoenix wasn’t involved. Phoenix caps this off in the final case (of the base game) by finally managing to prove Edgeworth innocent of the DL-6 incident, a crime even Edgeworth himself was convinced he committed. Rise from the Ashes also does this with Ema and Lana. JFA is about how the duty to serve justice inevitably gets corrupted into the desire to win. Franziska and slightly less so Edgeworth nail this point home throughout the game, and the final trial hits home by forcing you to choose between Maya’s life or justice - what you want versus what you need. T&T is all about putting the past to rest. Phoenix arguably isn’t even the protagonist of this one - in the past, it’s Mia, and in the present, it’s Godot. He is instead the vehicle through which these two characters finally face their demons and come to terms with the past, allowing them to move on. Recipe for Turnabout is the only outlier, but since it was initially a JFA case, it fits those themes much better. AJAA is about finding the truth; no matter how dirty or ugly. In contrast to Phoenix, Apollo often doesn’t trust his clients very much and instead helps them by laying out all the facts, often proving them guilty of lesser offenses that get them the Not Guilty verdict. Every case does this, but the final case takes the cake in that Phoenix and Apollo literally lay out every single facet of the current case and Kristoph’s involvement with it on every level imaginable. DD is, I would argue, about trauma. Trauma of being in a courtroom explosion, of seeing a murder scene and what appears to be your father as the killer. Phoenix is recovering from the trauma of the forged evidence incident, Athena is forced to confront her childhood trauma surrounding her mother’s death and friend’s wrongful imprisonment, and Apollo is subjected to the trauma of losing his closest friend. It’s only by working together that the three of them can finally begin to heal themselves, and from there, the court system as a whole. SoJ is about cleaning up the aftermath of past mistakes. On the surface is sounds a lot like T&T, but instead of making peace with the past, SoJ actively puts us in situations in which past actions are ruining lives. Ga’ran’s tyrannical rule started long before the events of the game, Roger Retinz was wronged many years prior as well, and even Geiru had to confront her Rakugo Master realizing too late that he never told her what she needed to hear. Nahyuta and Amara toiled for years, unable to do anything, and Rayfa was raised by her controlling aunt who instilled negative ideals into her. Before meeting with Maya in Rite of Turnabout, the victim is already dead and a plan set in motion to combat the long-since enacted defense culpability act. Dhurke doesn’t reach out to his adopted son until it’s already too late. Everyone else is just left to pick up the pieces and try to move on. In this sense, each Ace Attorney game has themes that speak to what it means to be a lawyer and justice in general. The major difference between the first and second trilogy is that the first trilogy is all about internal conflict - trying to convince Edgeworth to let you represent him - and the second is all about external conflict - taking down an evil queen. I think too many people get caught up on the little details that they miss the broader themes in the second trilogy.

[@trulymrword]

I'd like to think that AA2 was the first instance of the Dark Age of Law blooming, almost all the culprits of that game are tied to some figure of authority or justice system, even the last suspect had ties to the court. Heck, even Edgeworth lost his badge at some time like Phoenix. In addition, there is also the possibility that clearing Phoenix's name actually made things worse overall if the media was involved. They get to cover the scandal, then the backlash to that scandal, and the scandal of the scandal. Imagine the reaction of the people if they learned that the heroic lawyer of the people was framed by another defense attorney who had way more power than him over a client. They get to cover his fall and rise and put it into a negative light anyways because if Kristoph didn't do what he did, then criminals wouldn't go reckless with their plots. And the only way for Phoenix to even be allowed to practice law again is because that incident needed to be unearthed. But at that point the damage was already done. The Bar Association was proven to be compromised and years prior the Prosecution Investigational Committee was too, proving that both sides of the court procedures are corrupted.

[@lorikeet6782]

NEW UPLOAD LETS GOOO

[@xanderscookingschool1497]

THANK YOU! To many people don't know how big of an impact Kristoph had on the Dark Age of Law. He's literally the dude responsible for starting it in the first place, and used it to win cases to stroke his own ego.

[@johndelkab2111]

Great video, I actually did have the same thought process of Wright and Kristoph's battle being the root of this while playing through DD.

[@seamoretwillnant]

This is one in-depth analysis that I never even thought of. Seriously looking forward to what you have in the future on the Great Ace Attorney

[@mutanttepig4759]

Honestly I got into Ace Attorney BECAUSE of Dual Destinies(more specifically the demo for the game) so the whole "dark age of the law" plot line never bothered me because I started in the game where it has the most effect with. Also I just have to say that Edgeworth went out of his way to root out most of the corruption in the legal system after the events of Dual Destinies so that might have to do with that whole plot line essentially disappearing almost entirely in Spirit of Justice. Idk.

[@BarelySocial]

Very good video. Really puts the game in a new perspective. *SPOILERS* Just wanted to make a few comments. bear in mind: A) I have not watched your other videos (and I probably should after this one), so I might talk about things that you have in other videos. B) I have not played the games in forever, so my memory of the games may be foggy. Starting off with Professor Means. I think the heavy-handed approach works fine for him even if others may find it too much. I thought the intent was for him to come off as one of those longwinded lecturers who repeat themselves too much (which comes into play when he makes his speech), then you find out right away that he's actually insane. Another way it works is seen in how other characters react to him. Everyone else know his "the end justifies the means" spiel is stupid, but that's because they know better. This guy is a teacher in charge of impressionable youth. He sees them every school day and probably talks about his ideology all the time. He's basically brainwashing these kids and he doesn't even have some hidden motive behind it. In my eyes, he doesn't bother with being subtle because he thinks he's doing the right thing. It's kind of ironic because he is being honest and forthright about his ideology of being corrupt and dishonest. Next is Simon's blame in causing the Dark Age of the Law. You argue that Simon didn't need to apologize and shouldn't be blamed for his part in causing the Dark Age of the Law because he would have been found guilty anyways due to the evidence against him. First of all the evidence against him wouldn't have existed if he did not cover up the crime scene (which in itself is also a crime he committed). The photo was of him covering up the scene of the crime. He could've walked away and been found innocent. He even had the perfect scapegoat in the form of Athena. The problem was that he was so scared of the "truth" that Athena killed her own mom that he decided to cover it up. Simon's decision to protect Athena and the data on the Phantom was not inevitable and did cause the Dark Age of the Law. If Simon doesn't need to apologize, why does Phoenix have to apologize for presenting forged evidence in court even if he didn't know it was fake? It's because they still need to apologize for the results of the decisions they make, even if they have unintended consequences. Lastly, a less direct angle on how Simon caused the Dark Age of the Law is that when he plead guilty to murder he did not provide a motive for it. It's why he's treated as such a psychopath. Throughout the series we have had all sorts of motives ranging from revenge, money, power, and cover-ups, but this was the first time in the series someone killed someone for no reason. In the eyes of the public, the other higher-ups at least had excuses for their terrible crimes, but to them Simon didn't even bother to give one. He just killed for the sake of killing. It's one thing to know that the government is corrupt, but it's another to think that they just want to outright kill you for no reason. It could've been the straw that broke the camel's back.

[@Kaempfdog]

In my eyes, the reason Blackquill is so much LESS damaging than Phoenix is namely because Phoenix was the one big stop between all the corruption in the system he fought already. And when he WAS “found” to be as guilty as what he fought, he played into it instead of outright going against it. It’s why he’s so much more likely the straw that broke the camel’s back. Sure Blackquill did the same thing to a certain extent, but his case wasn’t an abuse of power, and it didn’t attack the system either. (Which is a trademark of the dark age. Attacking or abusing the system.) And the truth he saw was so dark no one wanted to believe it. The Phantom was going to escape regardless because the government didn’t want to admit they screwed up so badly so close to the rocket launch and were looking for excuses to throw the blame around. Making it TERRIFYINGLY possible they would have settled on Athena. Which Aura was more than happy to do because I can only assume she found blood on her machine, and why she always fixes Clonco by hand instead of using the machine at all. As for Means, can’t deny the point, but I just wish it was utilized better. When dialogue is THAT repetitive in a visual novel it’s harder to justify sometimes. But I suppose some of us have to “Let it go and move on.” Sighhhhhhhhhhh.

[@GentlemanGamer94]

This was a fantastic video to watch 😁 i enjoyed the second trilogy immensely, particularly 5 and 6, but the setup to the dark age of the law and it's resolution has confused me over the years. The way you contextualize everything really helps to clear things up for me, and to appreciate the second trilogy in a new light! 🙂 thanks for that! I'm greatly looking forward to your Great Ace Attorney ranking when it eventually comes out! 🙂

[@doubl2480]

Loved this video. Dude, that was super interesting, especially the theory about Retinz, it makes a lot of sense! Hope you keep doing essays like this, this is great!

[@geenkaas6380]

Its always fun when Kaempfdog uplouds

[@MinusWorldInterviews]

Your theory about retinz honestly blew my mind. It all makes so much sense

[@MarioGMan25]

Means is basically that whole South Park episode where Cartman impersonates a teacher and teaches a bunch of students how to cheat professionally.

[@kristynab.6539]

Glad to see a new vid and on such an interesting topic! Awesome :)

[@Jens_Gram]

Finally, the Kaempfdog delivers a new video! 🤯

[@michaelkolano8686]

I still find it crazy that a major point in the series is dealing with a crazed bomber who destroyed a government building named *Ted*

[@Purpleolives123]

Was that a reference to the Unabomber

[@edschannelwastaken]

Your theory that Retinz was trying to ruin Phoenix and the Gramaryes even during Dual Destinies makes sense, honestly. And it's really ironic that Apollo of all characters is the one to stop him: aka the OTHER Gramarye. Thank you for making that whole plot Dark Age point make more sense, to me it always felt kinda jammed into Dual Destinies just to create tension, but the way you explained its use does help me respect it a little more.

[@Kaempfdog]

Hey! Long time! Happy you watched and got more out of it! I always like looking at underrated aspects of series. And I liked DD before but the more people hated it, the more I wanted to see what could be enjoyed. And now I hold the 1st and 2nd trilogy in the same regard even if for very different reasons.

[@amitamaru]

If you haven't seen it yet, I highly recommend "Turnabout Jackpot". It's a fan story set between AA and DD. The jurist system and the Dark Age of the Law play into it splendidly.

[@TigerWing95]

Commenting again to say that I loved this video so much that it was worth a second viewing, I'm definitely gonna keep it in mind when I replay the 456 Trilogy when it comes to the Nintendo Switch. My first Phoenix Wright games were Apollo Justice and Dual Destinies and they both have a special place in my heart. Thank you so much for shedding some light on how great those titles always were.

[@unkaleidoscoped8194]

I think there is a tumblr post that talked about how Blackquill would have worked better if wasn't currently in jail during the events of the game, but exonerated just before the start of the game. State in game that he got off on a technichality and make it seem like his exoneration was a result of corruption within the prosecutors office. Then indict him in the last case and up the stakes by stating that beause of his previous 8 years in prison, if he gets convicted, it's an immediate execution.

[@carterferris07]

Once again, another banger video! Amazing stuff

[@vancesirron9170]

Dual destinies was already my favourite AA, the fact that you put in words things that I didn't know I liked about it just makes me like it more.

[@JordanStar7]

Yay new upload! 🎉

[@gaidencastro9706]

That Pheonix Wright Lip Sync must have been so hard to do

[@Kaempfdog]

We do what we can but not complete sync. And it’s kind of an homage to the Phoenix Wrong’s in the days of old youtube

[@gaidencastro9706]

@@Kaempfdog Pheonix Wrongs?

[@Kaempfdog]

@@gaidencastro9706 they were big in the early to late 2000’s. Like KZbin Poops. They like to lip sync movies and stuff to Phoenix Wright characters

[@airai3562]

I'm so glad to have come across this video! Dual Destinies is my favourite game in the series and I was honestly surprised when I found out that people didn't like it, and this video touched on so many great points that explain what I liked about it so much. It's such an underrated game and it's unfortunate that it (and Spirit of Justice, which I love too) get so much hate. I personally think DD is a lot better when played through for the second time, where you already know what's going to happen so you can see the whole story and understand WHY things are happening the way they are, but too many people just view it on a surface level of a first playthrough and end up thinking it's badly written. Like how you mentioned the reasons why Apollo is wearing the eyepatch and Clay's coat, and it's not for just being "edgy", it's for clearly stated reasons within the game, and his behaviour in the final trial makes sense with his character, especially considering his past and present dynamic with Phoenix -- but not having the full context during the first case makes people think he's out of character there, and they forget to come back and recontextualise it later with the full story. I also love how you've tied the story together cohesively with the rest of the 2nd trilogy, from both AJ and SoJ and explained everything brilliantly. The Roger Retinz theory is a fantastic idea! And I know a lot of people dislike the fact that there's only a very subtle continuity between all the games, but personally I've never really minded -- I quite like the fact that each game has its own separate plot and feel to it, and there still is an overarching continuity between them in a thematic sense, where events from prior games cause a domino chain that affects later games, as you've excellently shown in this video. I think DD suffers from that same "liminal space" feeling of being the middle game in a trilogy that Justice for All does, where it doesn't stick out as much in people's minds because it's felt as a sort of stop on a journey to the final game, rather than a game worthy of respect in its own right. And that's a shame because DD is great! Anyway yeah I just wanted to say how much this video brightened my day, because I had been hoping that with the 2nd trilogy releasing soon, it would get some more love and perhaps people would look back on it more fondly. From what I'm aware, a lot of these criticisms that DD gets are similar to what was said about AJ a long time ago, before people began looking back on it with the context of the full story and realising just how brilliantly written and fun a game it is. I'm hoping the same will happen with DD (and SoJ) too. Thank you for making such an awesome video!

[@Kaempfdog]

Hey thanks a lot! Well the overarching plot is a bit harder to spot, and Phoenix and Apollo aren’t as much on the forefront as Athena is, so that’s why so much goes unnoticed. The Ace Attorney franchise is not dead by any stretch and can keep on going. The 1st trilogy is outstanding, but what comes after doesn’t need to be discounted. And I am truly hopeful they make a 3rd trilogy with Athena more focused on. But Apollo and Phoenix can keep on going with their adventures too

[@sillyguy247]

you're so right about blackquill!!! i always thought it weird how he was seen as a peak part of the dark age, even though he didnt even do all that much. It makes much more sense that fullbright was pushing that narrative; that aspect never occurred to me until now. it was always especially weird to me how he always waited past blackquill breaking his cuffs and threatening violence to ELECTROCUTE him, as if there wasnt an easier way to handle things! the notion that he was trying to make blackquill seem much more violent and untrustworthy than he truly was makes so much sense looking back, this is such a good analysis! also the whole theory surrounding retinz was so good, it really made everything that didn't fit with the gramaryes' story before all click together.

[@warwulf1889]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="733">12:13</a> I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out Means was Kristoph's professor. And it was from Means that Kristoph got his philosophy of achieving his goals no matter what. It's never said, but wouldn't it be interesting.

[@Kaempfdog]

I actually once had this conversation, and I agree with the possibility since Klavier had Prof. Courte as his mentor. I don’t think Means was AS flagrant as he became back then, but it makes sense he would still be result oriented. The rift in the school was more caused by when Means fully embraced the dark age. And THAT might lead to corrupt judges, attorneys and more finding their way to the story.

[@giovannilloretsorribas2836]

There's also the detail that by the time Means himself would've probably started studying law, Von Karma would've been prosecuting for 20+ years already, and his philosophy of "perfect victory is everything" would've left a big mark on the legal profession as a whole. I wouldn't be surprised if Means got some inspiration from Manfred.

[@RealRaven6229]

I think Athena absolutely was the right one to lead case 3. Because both Phoenix and Apollo have been burned by the corruption in the legal system, but none more than Athena, long before the dark age of the law. She is the antithesis of everything that the dark age of the law stands for. She is earnest to the very end. Also, Phoenix has forged evidence. Apollo was losing faith in Athena and Wright. Athena however, despite seeing awful things and suffering immensely, chooses to be kind and trusting and determined. Athena lost her mother, and then watched blackquill go to jail due to a shoddy investigation. And despite that trauma, was determined to fix things rather than make them worse. Phoenix saw how his actions hurt Apollo, and so he was much more gentle to Athena, guiding her much better. He learned from that mistake. And Apollo, in turn, takes the position of "secretive mentor not talking things out." It's a neat reversal, and none of it could work without Athena.

[@seetrogreen2042]

stay cooking goat, love more ace attorney content on youtube

[@dorkondemand]

Great analysis! As someone who loves the Apollo trilogy (especially DD and SOJ), I really appreciate the defense here. And it actually helped me to better appreciate Phoenix's character in AJ. I always felt that his revenge on Kristoph felt like it did more harm than good but i didn't quite connect it to his arc in DD until now. You just got a new sub!

[@nintengy64]

When the world needed him most, he returned.

[@BritBox777]

While Blackquill didn't know the Phantom was there at the time, his actions absolutely obstructed the investigation that might have led to his capture. Blackquill tampered with the crime scene, stabbed the victim, destroyed a robot witness, and carried the human witness away. Given that the Phantom's plan fell through completely at the time, it's very possible his muck ups would have led to his capture. Blackquill accidentally protected the Phantom, and played his part in the dark age. But hey, that's just my theory ;)

[@acarr9377]

Pretty much, yeah. While AA5 does have problems getting its themes across, one thing I think it did very well in all of its cases is the ongoing theme of villains using lies and deception to get what they want, only to be be foiled by the people they're trying to hoodwink embrace the truth about what's happening and stand up for what's right. LaBelle nearly gets away with murder because Damien Tenma is unwilling to reveal all the secrets he's holding. (His wrestling persona, the truth about Tenma Taro) Juniper, Hugh and Robin unintentionally gave Means ways to maintain his alibi because they were trying to deny their true selves. And of course, The Phantom took advantage of Simon deciding to take the blame rather than actually investigate what actually happened to Metis. (To a lesser extent, a lot of the shenanigans in 5-6 also happens due to everyone involved holding secrets). But ultimately, they are all defeated by everyone learning to face the truth (and in Simon and Apollo's case, learning to not fear facing uncomfortable truths).

[@TheArkhamjester]

Regarding Phoenix coming back, in the very end of Apollo Justice, when the characters have a blurb about what they are doing after the game, phoenix off handedly mentions he applied for the bar exam again, since his "crimes" were cleared by the end. All but stating he was going to be an attorney again.

[@Kaempfdog]

While I am aware of that text, we were more pointing out how people responded to Phoenix’s return. 5-1 being such a drastic transformation because it’s mid timeline is distracting. And few if any notice that the arc actually is clean even when out of order.

[@TheArkhamjester]

@@Kaempfdog Fair enough, a lot of people did skip Apollo Justice. they knew that games premise not its resolution.

[@darwinaguilero3175]

As someone that doesn’t know much about this series beyond the trilogy and some bits dual destinies, it’s wild to me that Apollo and Wright were on pretty bad terms for a while. It throws me for more of a loop that Wright basically treated training his partner as a second thought. Great video. Cheers.

[@greninjamastergabe6452]

Alright, time for the review of the review. Regarding your points about Phoenix vs Kristoph, I can understand your arguments there. The fact that Kristoph destroyed Phoenix's career using illegitimate means drove Phoenix to do the same to Kristoph. Still, I find it odd that Phoenix forges evidence for real in 4-1, considering what caused his disbarment in the first place was his unknowingly presenting forged evidence. It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I do agree with your points on Apollo. You're right when you say that Apollo has no reason to trust Phoenix in DD. When the pair met, Phoenix was a disgraced former attorney, hoodie-wearing poker player, and evidence forger. The fact that Phoenix convinced Apollo to present forged evidence in 4-1 gives Apollo a genuine reason to distrust Phoenix. And yet, not enough is done with it. Yes, you heard me right. Not enough is done. Sure, Apollo has his arc in DD, but it ends with him completing trusting Phoenix. Apollo's arc does a complete 180 in 5-5, when one of Apollo's few defined character traits is that he is less likely to blindly trust people. I'll talk about Apollo's character arc more at the end of this review. Regarding Aristotle Means, there are a couple issues with your arguments. You say that Means is supposed to embody the "Dark Age of the Law" (off in the distance, you can probably hear me die inside) by being an insanely corrupt defense attorney and professor who not only does whatever it takes to win, but teaches the students at Themis Legal Academy to do the same. Okay. However, the issue I find is the fact that you say he was inspired by Phoenix and Kristoph. Means is older than both of them, and thus, we can assume that he is actually more experienced. I have every reason to believe that Means has always believed wholeheartedly that it doesn't matter what you do so long as you win (I had to write that because I didn't want to have to write "the end justifies the means"). Sure, Means is shameless about it in 5-3 as revealed by his repeating his mantra 27+ times (according to one r/AceAttorney user who counted every time he says it). Plus, he ultimately isn't a compelling villain because, post-transformation, he goes from "insanely creepy and suspicious" to "beyond cartoonishly evil." Your points regarding Retinz were, by your own admission, speculation. It's possible that every single word in that entire chapter of the video is wrong. Considering the three-year time gap between DD and SOJ and somewhat lackluster continuity between the two games, it's likely that Retinz wasn't even conceived until SOJ and thus had nothing to do with the Dark Age of the Law (once again, you can probably hear me dying inside from off in the distance). Overall, DD is one of the worst AA games to date. It's better than AAI because at least it's enjoyable to play. It also slightly edges out AJ because it at least has (some) likable characters and has something resembling a proper final case. Still, by the standards of the Trilogy, AAI2, and all other above-average AA games, it either comes up short or epically fails in almost every aspect. Its writing is mediocre at best and abysmal at worst, with a ridiculously inconsistent tone and several plot holes. It uses almost entirely "tell, not show" writing, which practically any semi-decent writer will tell you is an awful decision. Instead of repeating the phrases "Dark Age of the Law" and "the end justifies the means" ad nauseam, show that it is happening. Show real instances of widespread evidence forgery. Illustrate how little faith the public has in the legal system. Maybe show Means forging evidence or presenting forged evidence, possibly winning a case as a result. There are plenty of better ways of showing the "Dark Age of the Law." Hell, the only real evidence of a lack of public trust in the legal system is the character of Aura Blackquill, who is misanthropic in general and distrusts the courts because she believes that humans are too swayed by emotion. She develops this viewpoint after her younger brother, Simon, takes the fall for a murder he didn't commit in order to protect Athena, whom both Blackquills believed to be the true culprit. Speaking of Athena, this is where I go over the simple decision that would've made DD so much better. Athena should've been the culprit of UR-1. There, I said it. Capcom had no reason not to make her the culprit. Sure, matricide is an incredibly abhorrent act, especially for an eleven-year-old girl. If you make Athena the culprit and remove the Phantom altogether, DD becomes an above-average game, possibly even Top 3, and easily the best post-Trilogy game. First of all, it would raise the stakes of 5-5 even more if Phoenix has to defend someone he knows his guilty. Sure, he did that very same thing in 2-4, but it and TGAA-3 are the only two episodes to date in which the player character defends a murderer. You also don't have to make UR-1 a murder; in my opinion, it works best if the death of Metis turns out to be a tragic accident rather than a deliberate act. As for what you would do after learning of Athena's guilt, that would probably be finding the true culprit of 5-4, as the Phantom doesn't exist in this version and it wouldn't make sense for Athena to be the culprit of both. Second of all, it makes character arcs more compelling. I believe that two characters in particular would've had much more compelling arcs had Capcom made Athena the culprit: Apollo and Athena. Apollo, as previously mentioned, doesn't really trust Phoenix, and in 5-4 and 5-5, he convinces himself that Athena killed Clay and fears that Phoenix will go to extreme lengths to protect Athena. Thus, we could've seen an even greater rift between Phoenix and Apollo if it turned out that Athena was guilty (albeit not of Clay's murder). In the case of Athena, her arc is one of my least favorites, as it's largely recycled from Edgeworth and done much better the first time. So, making Athena the culprit makes her backstory distinct from that of Edgeworth. It would also cause Athena to potentially show a massive amount of maturity, as she accepts her fate while still accomplishing her goal of saving Simon. In other words, it would allow Athena to accomplish her goal, while also maturing and realizing that the truth is all that matters in the end, no matter how inconvenient it may be. Athena even shows willingness to do just that in DD when she says, "Simon, please give me this chance! The chance to shake off this fear that's been with me for seven years and to face the truth!"

[@diesakuma367]

Honestly I think this would make this game much more interesting And this also can be tied in "Dark... you know what" For me DD is the 3rd worst and your idea would make me put it as 5 fav(cause I dont like most cases) This would also excuse the writer in SOJ with not putting Athena so forcefully since she would be in jail It is a shame that your version did not happen(but again this would be too dark I think)

[@fridaylambda3494]

Honestly, I agree Athena being the culprit of UR1 would be more narratively stimulating. Instead of Simon lying to protect what he thinks is the truth, he's doing it specifically because it is what happened. It can easily be an accident or an unintentional moment of rage from a child. If you want to go even darker, Athena might have suspected the other members of the Space Station suspected or knew and Athena killed one to prevent it from coming to light. It'd be a far more tragic and significant situation especially if Athena was trying to kill Starbuck but in the dark killed Terran by accident. Alternatively, Aura might have snapped and committed murder to convict Athena of the crime and finally avenge Metis' death since she knew that Athena had to be the killer and her brother's time was almost up. By using the murder to dredge up UR1, she could then easily connect Athena to both crimes and save Simon while finally bringing Athena to justice. Honestly, though, I'd rather this hypothetical new story have Starbuck as the victim and Apollo suspecting that Athena tried to frame his best friend to save her own skin. I'd also much prefer if the Monstrous Turnabout was Clay dragging Apollo to Nine Tails Vale so we could see him as a real character and develop on the Final Case and its stakes instead of the Trucy cameo.

[@Fall-oo6mt]

disagree

[@RedDragonForce2]

I will say, you kinda brush off the meaning behind Blackquill’s actions for his part in the Dark Age of the Law. His actions let the Phantom escape because he was covering for Athena, yes; however, the fact that he plead guilty to prevent further investigation allowed the Phantom to escape without anyone learning of his existence. Because Simon prevented a more thorough investigation, the Phantom was able to stay anonymous without anyone knowing about him so he had free reign to continue sabotaging other countries. Sure the Police would have stopped after Athena was declared Guilty, but Simon would press an ongoing investigation anyways with support from Edgeworth because he was the reason behind Blackquill being able to continue prosecuting in the first place. With Blackquill actively investigating with Edgeworth’s support, the Phantom’s existence would have been revealed 7 years sooner and Athena’s Jailtime would have been exceedingly shorter than Simon’s was, and thus the Samurai would have heroically saved the Princess and vanquish the villain. Sure, that would open up more Super Spies to the fray, but Simon still played his part, and he had to accept his role in letting the people lose their trust in the Judicial System. It’s all about context and how people viewed the actions, rather than if the actions were right or wrong.

[@madibyee]

This theory at the end makes the entire plot of Dual Destinies and its tie-in to the rest of its trilogy feel way more interesting. Love hearing crackpot fan theories like this, you should do more videos like this!!

[@Kaempfdog]

Well here’s the good news! I’m planning on organizing the information in 4-4 as the next project like this.

[@Tom020894]

I always love anyone doing Ace Attorney content so ty! Its my favourite series bc of its music,story and characters:)

[@TonyChan-eh3nz]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1005">16:45</a> I don't think polly made his own fee system. More like he was just charging the standard wright anything rate.

[@anthonyminimum]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="733">12:13</a> I bet you Means got his methods from von Karma who in turn was responsible for Kristoph’s methods

[@Mohammed1000real]

The dark age of the law is frustratingly idiotic that it felt like literally nothing.

[@Santoryu90]

Eh not really

[@Faceless_time_traveler]

I love how this video validated my views on the overall story, the ones I didn't know the fandom disagreed on.

[@ayoitsaya]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1380">23:00</a> its not just that its in the scope, its that he knows if wright pulls something soooooooooooo far out of left field it probably is right no matter how ridiculous. All that would be left would be setting him up to prove it like he always does.

[@emidemi7211]

I'm impressed. I just finished Magical Turnabout this morning and I HATED it, but you've changed my mind (at least to an extent. Still mad about the retcons.) I'm also very glad to see DD love. I thought Turnabout Academy and Turnabout for Tomorrow were PERFECT and I'm glad you seem to agree.