Why Playing DPS Feels TERRIBLE (Overwatch 2)

[@BasicSneedEducation]

The only value dps can really get is through 1 shots. It’s because with 1 shots you bypass the whole healing part of the game.

[@spacepope7867]

Yup. Burst or nothing. The role is cosmetic unless you have the raw damage to murder someone in one second. Too much burst, movement/escapes and things to nullify abilites. You need the raw damage to melt something or need a teammate, cause its extremely hard to confirm kills without mass damage.

[@adrian80_]

until mercy rezzes

[@gi1kxsy908]

either 1 shots or heros like sombra or mei who dont only rely on damage or kills they actually disrupt the enemy, a big mei wall is 10x more effective than hitting all ur shots just for them to be outhealed

[@StoneTheCr0w]

Youre playing the game wrong if youre seeking "da killz"

[@memesix5440]

not really. Usually a single player dying makes teams retreat and wait to group up due to the lower team number. Getting a single pick is all the value now. @@StoneTheCr0w

[@sobervision1049]

Its crazy that DPS has the luxury of variety that Tank and Support dont but still feels suffocating to play. The passives were such a fail overall. DPS dont actually have a passive until they get an elimination, just think about that going into a teamfight where the other roles are already making use of theirs and you have to break down a fortress to gain the benefit that doesnt even compare to the other roles.

[@SamitoFPS]

This is a super interesting way to think about this

[@killertofu3600]

I feel like the dps passive should be based to your rate of headshots so its still based on skill

[@sobervision1049]

@@killertofu3600 If Blizzard specifically wanted the DPS passive to be a Kill Skill, then the effect should be immense, a brief moment to make use of a passive should make a bigger difference imo.

[@ShellFell2Hell]

I 100% feel the same, I just couldn't put my words into it. As someone who didn't really play dps in ow1(I was gold) I can only say that I felt like dps was more structured and straight forward than it is now. I play dps a bit more now and as a gold player I can without a doubt take more space nowadays but it doesn't necessarily help a team fight because of the support passives. I think I mostly remember the double shield in ow1, which was the most frustrating thing to deal with as a dps and thus I fell back to play tank and support.

[@AnikethBandi]

Passives overall didn't do much really for tank either. The resistance to being boop was helpful but it didn't really help against the actual hard cc they had to deal with. The only tank that really get use out of the tank passive is rein because he needed the passive and he basically got nothing with the addition of the new passive. All the passive did was was nerf lucio and stop him from booping tanks off the map. Supports really are the only ones affected by it and honestly their main issue at the start of the game was the dps passive plus tanks being giga buffed. But once they buffed supports, nerfed dps and tanks. You shifted the balance one sidedly to the side of supports. Now majority of the playerbase isn't happy.

[@inahacim6582]

Remember when they claimed 5v5 was gonna open up the gameplay and make it more flank-friendly and create more opportunities to frag out? Well it did the complete opposite. Teams have to play closer to tank more than ever no matter the comp. Flanking is more like mini wide angles. Not to mention healing is so strong, it caused a witch hunt on one shot heroes because they were the only ones to consistently secure elims before the ridiculous insta-heals kicked in. 5v5 has caused such a negative ripple effect in this game from new All-in-one heroes to reworked heroes and abilities through most of the roster all in 9 seasons. And they still dont have it right. There isnt a real significant benefit outside of making tanks more tank-like that 5v5 has offered to overwatch that warrants the 2.0 version. 5v5 has failed. #Bringbackthe6th

[@penteablo1722]

Im not saying I prefer 5v5, but imo it did make flanks way stronger, all of the flanking heroes like Genji/tracer/sombra/soldier get much stronger when we moved to 6v6, dps die much easier to burst and tanks will explode if dps are able to distract supports from them for even a second

[@jame8618]

actually in the beta it did, in fact flanking was so insanely strong that support players got upset instead of fixing their positioning. Its exactly why support is so busted now. Comparre 5V5 beta to 5v5 now it feels like two completely different games. they really ruined what they had

[@bambampewpew32]

@@penteablo1722 Yeah but then they had to gigabuff supports cause it's just a bad idea to make flanking that free lol (I like flanking too btw)

[@CoolUsername69]

​@@jame8618 100%. Beta was the golden age of OW gameplay. Sadly some players weren't ready to take off the training wheels yet, so Blizz ruined it for everyone by creeping sustain back to GOATS levels.

[@ziggy2metalx720]

Some people gonna say “but tank was boring back in ow1”. No it wasn’t. The cooperation between both tanks was way better than what we have now. I feel like part of the reason people felt bored is because tank had 8 heroes while damage had 17. If we had queen, ramattra and mauga back in ow1, more people would’ve played tank.

[@Ash-tm2sv]

deffo! As a support player some of the best feeling moments is helping and working with your other sup, so I'm sure tanks were the same! And same thing with the amount of heros - we had a lot less rly strong heros then!

[@Carebear_Pooh]

off-tank was the most fun gameplay by a mile.

[@dequanndillard7932]

Junker and Ramattra would be busted in 6v6 honestly.

[@RandomQuestNPC]

@@dequanndillard7932 just like any tank if they kept the resistance all tanks now have in 5v5. But if they were squishier as tank were in 6v6 nah, they wouldn't be busted.

[@dequanndillard7932]

@@RandomQuestNPC I disagree respectfully Ram ulting with another tank sounds like a nightmare imo.

[@JRhodesZA]

I think this new trend of making supports more self-sustainable and damage focused is really hurting the game. I don't understand how Blizzard can justify giving supports high burst damage AND powerful abilities. Zen made sense as a fragile glass cannon with low base healing, but now it feels like they want every support hero to be able to do everything.

[@Ash-tm2sv]

This is so true! I'm all for allowing supports to outplay but compared to the older supports the newer ones feel incomparably more versatile.

[@KamiKomplex504]

There was always a trade off and a punish. Think about ow1 zen, there were less backline bailouts available. He can boop which screws over some main counters. He can hide for a second and regen. He had his health buffed .... Then you look at kiri, literally unpunishable, multiple full outs. 2taps, wallclimb, imo-cleanse and a tp through walls. Also the knives being bigger hitbox than her. Just some full 50mics type design.

[@derekeano]

Yeah. Illari just feels like a damage hero they forced into the support role.

[@yukioacumora4430]

The supports now feel so spoonfed it's not even funny and it kills the game for me dude. I look at two supports as a tank, and I litterslly have to go "nah fuck that, that's like 5 lives worth of dueling assuming my own supports cant get to me. I'll wait when they're separated/go after something more killable like a dps. Swarm with numbers or force a retreat" It's so fucking braindead dull.

[@Ash-tm2sv]

@@yukioacumora4430 I mean arguably shouldnt be looking to fight more than one person unless ur sups are either you, but I will agree that being scared of sups as a tank feels ASS 😅😅 that said I do think that 2 sups should win or at least escape a 2v1 Unless you’re like way more skilled ofc.

[@stinkfinger001]

Weird a game made around 6v6 would suffer major problems switching to 5v5. Whod have thunk it.

[@RoelofLucka]

atleast dps isn't bottleknecking queuetimes. they are instant now. how in the fuck do u go from 15 minute queue times from dps to a instant queue time for dps. something aint right

[@Real_MisterSir]

Dude people wanted to burn me for stating this exact issue back when OW2 launched. Nobody saw the red flags, but 1 year worth of playtime and experience means people can't ignroe it anymore. Every single core issue OW2 has ever had, is a direct derivative of the change to 5v5. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. But this dev team may just be even more stubborn than the one from OW1, which is wild honestly.

[@tstatts]

​@@RoelofLuckaand now support ques in gm games for me are 12+ minutes lol I just want to play lucio man

[@RoelofLucka]

@@Real_MisterSirNo there were alot of people who saw the issues, but the ones who did knew that we weren't able to change anything. and others wanted to get an update atleast since we were 2 years without a new thing added

[@RoelofLucka]

@@tstatts i think thats not only gm but overall. i could be wrong tho

[@CryoByte115]

it always comes down to the game not being 6v6 anymore

[@KillWija]

dead ass was about to say this cause no matter what OW1 just better

[@Crusty_Sword]

@@KillWijaalso the dps had personality with some of the must unique dps like doom genji cass Yes the game had issues but most of that was balance that the team could and still can’t seem to fix

[@tyrantla7120]

And it's barely mentioned by streamers.. even Samito. It's like they're scared to state the obvious.

[@fullnelson4986]

It all stems from that issue

[@cookieelement3467]

I feel like it's not that the game isn't 6v6, but that there was a 10 step process to properly convert from 6v6 to 5v5 and they managed to about step 0.75 before pushing it live and taking away years of well polished 6v6. 5v5 could totally work if they put the work in, but just like with the pve, we wait years and yet it feels like barely any work was done

[@ieToastie]

To your point about not having crazy top frag games as damage anymore, I largely attribute this to the skewed quantity of defensive abilities present in a given match in OW2. It seems like every team fight nowadays requires an extended period of time of just nothing but poking and forcing cooldowns, rarely will you ever get the chance to go in and start trading elims.

[@xythiera7255]

A big reason for that is that as dps you realy cant go for a flank and get a out play to make the game role faster now as dps you sit there hop a support throws out his ability so you can do something . As dps you have to ignore healers becouse the sit togeather pocketing edg other or have so much solo dueling potatial that its not worth going for it and Tanks are Tanks you never do any dmg to them anyways .

[@thefootballpunnedit]

Poke wars were longer and less enjoyable in the first iteration.

[@yyny0]

Forcing cooldowns was a much bigger problem during goats, and was still a bigger problem during bunker/double shield after role lock. The reason why it didn't FEEL so bad, was because most games weren't full goats or double shield, or it was played poorly because few people wanted to learn Orisa.

[@extremelight9258]

Playing against Bap and Kiriko is obnoxious. You have to bait out Suzu, Immortality Field, and the regen burst, or else your play and ult get rendered completely pointless. The only thing more painful than that is playing against Bap and Illari and spending the match shooting at the Lamp and the Pylon or else you can't play the game. Brilliant ability design.

[@SALMON_OW]

6v6 should always be a conversation - The amount of burst damage and healing there is because of the solo Tank has gotten insane. The only real value as DPS is playing with one shots (Sojourn, Widow, Hanzo) or with a Mini Tank such as Mei. As a Dva main id rather see her half as strong as she is now but with a tank partner.

[@OseronPhaer]

Yup. D.Va used to be one of my favorites to play, but she's been so weird in 5v5 and only fun when she's a little overtuned, which is not how this should be.

[@OmniManEmpire]

you cant even play soujurn unless you have a mercy she cant one shot anymore even in the head

[@Chazza-01]

@@OmniManEmpire It literally puts them so low that a little bit of damage is enough to finish them. That is why you shoot a little before going for the railgun (unless you have Mercy ofc)

[@gab4198]

It is surprising that in the end, overwatch should take notes from paladins, but for me the problem is not about 6v6 and 5v5, it is the role lock in the game, and because they changed tanks to be able to solo tank it means it is not easily reversible. Role locks where originaly put in the game to stop goat comps i think? and since then there is no risk in playing ranked and having to play a diferent role, that is better for some serious players, but forcing one less tank in 5v5 was too much to handle, it is a cycle of making another role busted to quick-fix the flaws in balancing and gameplay. It can look like pure chaos leting people be flexible with roles, but it actually was good in paladins, there we couldn't change heroes mid game, had to rely on loadouts and items from the mid game shop to counter the oposing team, and sometimes it would suck becausse you get 3 dps in a game and only one tank, sometimes even 0 suport, but it was part of the game comunicating with the team and deciding who to pick when it worked, and it was fun, there where creative team comps and you always had to sacrifice between tank or dps because it was 5v5 from the start, even more complicated because dps was split into damage and flank champions, but you had games where someone else picked the role you were going for, that meant you had to know how to at least play decent with some other champion and maybe other class, it was bad to sometimes be last pick in your team and not playing the champions you like most of the time (in ranked higher elo = picks first), but the last pick had the advantage of knowing most if not all of the oposing team's picks, you could be the guy to end their whole career by patiently picking the best counter to their most dangerous champions. Overwatch already had none of that, it was always about picking the counter and they switch and then you switch again, but it was fine in overwatch 1, but when 2 take one tank away, it was easy to see how the role lock was bad to the game, and i mostly played season 1 and then stoped, but tanks where op to compensate one less of them on the game, suports got horrible because less protection to do their job, tank experience was miserable because you HAD to play a certain way even if half the tank cast was meant to be playing offtank and had no way to be played alone and dps was just dps, but it looks like a never ending cycle of overcompensating another role so the other is less miserable and then another one has problems, tank was miserable? make them less reliant on suports, is suport the problem now because they aren't needed to sustain tanks as much and also are killed by flanks all the time? buff their damage and escape options so they are impossible to kill on 1v1, and then sustain fire is bad and you need one shot heroes and next time they will fix dps by shifting the problem to another role yet again.

[@OseronPhaer]

Every time I think about Overwatch anymore (Lord knows I'm not playing it right now), I realize everything that's bothering me about the gameplay comes down to the 5v5 format. That loss of the off-tank not only took away something I enjoyed doing in the game, it took away so much of the variety and dynamics. Things like one-shots are so much more abusable now, if not the only truly viable strategy. It's insane. As Sam has pointed out in earlier videos, if they had just balanced the game to reduce the viability of double shield, or indeed, had tried 6v6 with the OW2 Orisa rework, it may have become clear the format change never would have had to happen.

[@BlaBlaBla-76]

I keep saying the tank problem in 6v6 is easy to fix; only one shield tank allowed....done

[@nukenuke4286]

@@BlaBlaBla-76I don't even think they have to go that far, I think it should be a simple fix. if they can use their shield while still being able to use other abilities (sig, ram, old orissa) they need to have a large weakness to compensate. rien shield wasn't that big of a problem even when it was 2000 hp because using it meant that he couldn't attack or use abilities but then ramatra comes along who can poke slow and shift into a mele form all while having a shield to protect him!

[@jacobsotorios8886]

Play other games

[@coldshot1611]

Man i feel bad for the people who didn't get to play ow1 6v6 that game was just so much enjoyable to play than this wack 5v5.

[@djdude001]

I fucking miss it bro I been playing since day 1 lol I took a long break from ow2 but I’m back on it now I just play it casually

[@olegdusov4273]

I feel bad for people who didnt get to play ow2 beta or 1st season, before supports got their infinite health passive and burst healing buffs. I clearly remember shit tons of fun I had switching from ow1 to beta

[@shanewilburn2317]

yeah shooting double shields looks uhhhh so fun dealing with double shield and a afk bastion who sits there n perma turret shooting ooooo peak gameplay.... ohh brig that almost killed the game? soooooo fun oh goats meta soooo fun beat off till someone dies lol idk i just dont see how yall enjoyed that shit think its a massive amount of coopiumm

[@djdude001]

@@shanewilburn2317 overwatch was built to be 6v6 every 5v5 defender says the same shit you just said bitching about double shields

[@slei4676]

It was so enjoyable that they had to literally remake the whole game to make it bearable. We really do have a short and biased memory

[@hunterdoss7720]

Honestly, I don’t think that dps is underpowered, I think that the other roles are just overpowered. With OW2 coming out, so much of the balancing felt like they stopped caring and just wanted to get the game out ASAP. I think support is the biggest issue (and I used to be a support main). They didn’t rework the role like they did with tank, even though support’s role should’ve changed drastically with the game becoming 5v5. They didn’t nerf healing or defensive abilities, and because there is one less tank (who would’ve been an off tank pumping out higher damage like zarya, or a second shield tank that would allow for a slower playstyle), the healing and defensive abilities have been indirectly buffed. And for some reason even the new supports are made with 6v6 levels of healing and not 5v5 levels. So, I think that they need to try to bring the other two roles down to DPS’s level. Each role should be able to play fairly against each role by players skill and strategy, and I think that is only accomplishable by either bringing back 6v6, or reworking the other two roles to be on dps’s level, not above it. TLDR: dps is actually the most balanced role, and it sucks because the other two roles are just better. The other roles should be nerfed so that the three roles have equal impact and rely on player skill and strategy

[@commandoghost5883]

Ya I agree but also Dps has been feeling stale

[@gi1kxsy908]

tank is only opressive when u have good supports, supports are literally such a massive problem and the sad fact is that they have to be overpowered because we have lost one o the most important roles in the game, the off tank was probably the most important role for the integrity of the game and holy fuck do i miss being able to pick the hero i wanted to play instead of the hero i have to play

[@Reager]

power creep moment.

[@spicymemetaco9767]

@@commandoghost5883 2 new DPS in 4 years (Echo, Soj) vs 4 new tanks (Doom, Ram, JQ, and Mauga) and 3 new supports (Kiri, LW, and Illari) in 1.5 years

[@yyny0]

They are never going to nerf the tanks, that was the whole point of 5v5

[@mattman3716]

Man what a golden age of OW from that clip. 6V6 in all its glory. Seeing the Rein, Zar, Lucio, Ana rush comps on Kings Row brings back all the nostalgia. Everything back then felt as though you had proper reward to skill, it was possible to out play someone by being better instead of having the superior cooldowns. It has been watered down and has had the "No Child Left Behind" motto shoved down our throats. Everyone can be GM, everyone can carry, and that ideology will never progress the life of a competitive game no matter the platform. As silly as it is to say, there is a line from a scene in The Incredibles where the main bad guy Syndrome says "If everyone is super, than no one will be" and that is exactly what Team 4, Blizzard/Activision have done. Look at how we were presented with OW1, no story mode, no co-op, only pvp in casual and competitive modes. Its safe to say that being a COMPETETIVE FPS was what it was built on, that's what made it game of the year and a true one of a kind. This is not the same game anymore. I believe it became to political and to greedy which resulted in what we have now. Hot take, Blizzard rode the coat tails of the game until it reached peak and then came in with the greed hammer and pushed it away from what it was originally created to be, a one of a kind FPS, competitive game. Thank you Samito for bringing into the light these things that don't seem to be brought up or talked about in the public eye. Appreciate all your hard work keep it up.

[@youtuberobbedmeofmyname]

"Everyone can be GM" Wait until you discover what "Rangemaxxing" is.

[@jacobsotorios8886]

Play other games

[@bambampewpew32]

@@youtuberobbedmeofmyname lmao

[@bubbleshoot]

Unsure how Blizzard/the playerbase thought 5v5 was the right decision. Broke so much synergy in the game.

[@SamitoFPS]

Because they’ve never understood their game fundamentally

[@nuclearsimian3281]

Because people fucking despised playing tank. Blizzard listened to the playerbase, who hated playing tank, and removed one. Maybe the playerbase needs to take responsibility for that, and should have queued for off-tank.

[@WerewolfKweef]

I played DPS exclusively in OW1, and I don't even log in to OW2 anymore. Horrible game in 5v5 format.

[@dark_matter8420]

What makes DPS so terrible is that a few bad actors make the role terrible to play as well as go up against. In high ranks it is the prevalance of Sojourn that, once pocketed, can run over your entire team. While at the lower ranks, heroes like Bastion run rampant because players don't have the coordination to counter him. So as DPS you're often very reliant on your team to play a certain way, and 9 times out of 10 you're better off just trying to counter the enemy tank. Play into the weaknesses of their pick and force a win like that. But it feels cheap, unearned and generally not satisfying, which makes wins as welll as losses feel awful.

[@Gerwhal]

Yeah and tank feels like you're just trying to survive against the dps picking Mei bastion sojourn and their tank playing orisa or mauga lol

[@miwky406]

I mainly played support across both ow games, but I believe ow1 was just genuinely more fun for all roles. In ow2, tanks have too much stress put on their role, dps feels underwhelming, and support feels like you're always 1v1ing at least one enemy to stay alive; there's no feeling of team cohesion. The reason for tanks and support both getting buffs is, ironically, because with the attempt to increase an individual player's carry-potential by reducing the number of players per team, they had to make up for the fact that players (in the first game, who wanted more carry-potential); often reasoned that the game would be more fun if they didn't have to help each other, assuming it "wasn't their job". In the first place, that's what one of the main complaints from tanks was in ow1-- it felt like you couldn't often count on the other tank to pick a complimentary character, or even work together with you. Buffs to tank and support characters were preemptive overcorrection in a consolation effort to players that needed a team for their role to function. In ow2, tanks have to carry the responsibility of 2 players, and they are collapsing under the weight of it. Supports are allowed to have a sense of agency, sure, but we're also expected to make up for the deficit of that missing tank with our newfound utility in ow2, while also healing, and often dueling enemies that have no right attacking us for free; thus why Blizzard gave us the dueling potential in the first place. The main problems that dps are facing is that they just deal damage; only damage. In a game where there are limited health thresholds that decide victory or defeat, you cannot risk inflating those numbers to keep up with the utility in the game, or else everything would be able to one-shot. Inversely, you could make dps have utility also, but things would die slower than they do even now. It's a product of 5v5/one less tank. Honestly, if they don't bring back the second tank, they at least need to make a bruiser category, or tanky dps that act as pseudo-tanks; because if you can take pressure off the tank, and defend the supports, then you can nerf utility back down **after** there is no longer a **reason** for it. The design philosophy of ow2 was to make each player less reliant on a team, but now that players have a greater sense of personal agency, there's no one to enable them or their plays-- in a game that was designed strictly for teams; and now the cracks are showing. Going forward, balance must ironically demand a greater sense of teamplay and cooperation if it's stands any hope of enabling individuals to have their fun "hero moments".

[@DoubleEm08]

I do think a big function of the 5v5 problem is that they were forced to remove the sharpness in support and tanks. Like you said, 6v6 tanks could have edges because they fit in a duo that could cover weaknesses. Without that, you have to make them generalists or overbuff them (Mauga) to cover their weaknesses.

[@Stardust_Spy]

I personally am an advocate of 6v6 and 5v5 co-existing, even if its just QP. I can understand that implementing a Quickplay 6v6 mode right now would spawn a miriad of issues with balancing, as well as a focus on 5v5 balance, but I think it would be better overall to just have the option of playing 6v6. Worse case scenario, people realise why 6v6 is bad or would be bad today.

[@Nayutune]

I feel like people that already like 6v6 would enjoy it more than 5v5, even if it's not going to be balanced. There is a reason Overwatch 1 survived the stale 2019-2022 meta, even if it felt miserable to some.

[@derekeano]

I appreciate this insight. I've been playing DPS only recently and other than low queue times I've noticed focusing the tank or supports is useless, I guess I have to focus DPS instead!

[@simleoow1214]

watching this gameplay makes me tear up... playing genji in ow2 isnt what it used to be in ow1. all the changes + heros like kiriko made those sick POP-OFF moments so rare and the game lost its magic for me entirely. ow went from a game that i played for hours every day to a game i havent touched in months. thank you for making such good thought-through content samito

[@owenavery8697]

Even though there was more cc in overwatch 1 i think it was easier as genji as now the amount of healing u have to hit the 1 shot combo or ur feeding and then theres imort when u blade

[@simleoow1214]

@@owenavery8697 yes even though brig-Stun and cree stun and many more existed, genji weirdly felt better in ow1

[@魚-c3d]

Ah yes, the golden days of playing Genji vs GOAT meta followed by double shields. Tell me nostalgia blinds you without telling me nostalgia blinds you

[@simleoow1214]

@@魚-c3d that is a weird take, ALL dps were useless during goats and double shield wasnt fun but at least playable: genji could go for snipers or play for blade. Now genji is useless

[@Beanigez]

The 6v6 conversation needs to stay open, 5v5 has caused so many problems and there has been no resolution to anything. Bottom line, it is not fun

[@vkdeen7570]

6v6 would be chaos now the way the maps are, the amount of visual clutter already on screen and the power creep just look at open role queue 5v5 when the enemy team picks 2-3 tanks (and they have reduced power)

[@gab4198]

@@vkdeen7570 the tank class is one way or the other just broken in ow2, it was meant to be 5v5 with one tank each, the game is not balanced arround having more than one tank, they are close range dps with twice as much health. If they want the game to play 5v5 the best way would be to put tanks back to the place they where in ow1 and make the game ope queue, because forcing people to certain roles and also only one tank per team is just to many restrictions, maybe they should get rid of switching heroes mid game, it was fine on 6v6, but in 5v5 it means the initial choice has 0 impact and it is a never ending cycle of switching heroes to counter the enemy who just switched.

[@whitedragon312]

To me DPS sometimes feels like support but withoit the ability to heal

[@giorgiovezzali101]

You forgot what in my opinion is the most op change moira has had: the ability to fade during her ult

[@REZEMBLENZ]

6v6 would have a higher chance of solving game problems then 5v5

[@someoninte456]

Peaked Plat 4 a couple season ago before going 1-1-15 in rerank placements and quitting comp entirely. DPS has felt absolutely miserable. I already don't like playing the "one shot" playstyle in any game ever, but especially in a game like Overwatch. I absolutely love Tracer and Genji, but it never feels like I can get any kills before getting killed myself or being forced to disengage. It just feels like I have the least impact on the game for the most effort and it sucks, which is why I haven't played in a while.

[@Zero-fx5qn]

Playing DPS feels terrible in OW2. Nothing dies there is so much healing and defensive abilities.

[@Nixxos]

Something that wasnt mentioned is that since there are only 4 other players each support needs to spread heals between instead of 5 so each individual target will likely get about 25% more healing over the course of the game (not including changed hps numbers since ow1)

[@fination]

the amount of time i have had over 1200 damage(not even touching tanks) on tracer and get 0 elims is in insane, which just feel like is everybody a tank now, because i do damage and they get healed. it is like i have spend so much time just getting push through raw healing and immortalities before anything dies, unfortunately i haven't played 6v6 at all, i am super exited to play it in the next season, hopefully it won't feel the same.

[@TomMorello725]

It feels harder because support the passive. Fun fact: I was a support player but switched to DPS. Personally, playing DPS is helping in the process of getting better in OW2 because I am not playing a babysitting role anymore. The game feels so different with no passive healing and even with the current state I wanna keep playing the role, is funnier. You have to learn more (especially players like me, plat trying to get diamond/masters in the future).

[@DetectivePikachu37347]

Window mains are the only few dps heros that benefits from the 5 vs 5 format.

[@WorldKeepsSpinnin]

Not even, Its still hard for them. They get marked harder because there no off tank so a DPS and tank will often switch to counter them, before you only had to worry about a off tank mainly and you had a off tank to help you. Even if they don't get marked, everyone hides, widow has to get so close to get value that they just get picked off easily because 175 hp and no help from teammates. You get less opportunities in general. Plus while this is happening, your team is basically down one player, and if your second dps is playing something like tracer or genji, your tank will be basically playing 1v5, and your healers will be just barely keeping them alive and unable to help or enable anyone else on the team

[@hgyytrsamhgyytrsam4944]

Can confirm, as a widow main she is WAY worse in ow2 than she was in ow1. I have a bout 1k hours on her and barely play her anymore.

[@smqke]

As a widow main I don’t have anywhere near as good of as a time as I did in OW1. The ONLY time I’d agree with you, was towards the start of OW2 before her drop off nerfs. But she was an issue then with the lack of Off-Tank to zone her out.

[@thaddeusharris756]

until a kiriko kills you from 30 feet away, outside of your fall off damage radius after her rampant nerfs. I play alot of widow, and have for 5 years in GM. She is decent sometimes, but feels pretty lackluster without a mercy blue beam up your ass. If its into zarya match up maybe.. but often it feels eh.

[@blaugranapanda8711]

Nah in the first few seasons of OW2 I would agree with you but right now she's terrible to play with after the nerfs. You're better off playing Ashe or Sojourn honestly.

[@SocialDesignFlaw]

Responsibility is the word of the day. OW1 had a heavy amount of optimization; every member of your team had responsibilities/duties to keep track of, refined and specified over years of play. With the removal of the 2nd Tank, all the responsibilities that 6th player/2nd Tank had, were left empty. OW2 has forced, not just DPS, but every other role/teammate to absorb those responsibilities. Some of these are a lot more easily absorbed than others (Support abilities make the peel from a 2nd Tank, less necessary) but others are...still in question. Objective security? Who triggers OT? Is it the optimal choice? Or just whoever can make it there and die. Are the options for it still plentiful or has it been narrowed to very specific heroes? Who stays on point during OT? Who's responsibility is it to ride cart while the rest play up? Are there options? Or is it just whoever is willing? What about backcaps? Who comes back to check? How many more C9s or point touch failures are happening because the re-distribution of responsibilities from that lost Tank, have increased obligations beyond capacity? How many heroes are made increasingly irrelevant because their kits can't keep up with the added responsibility? How many more are nudged toward Must-pick, or niche "stall" because of it? How many more hard counters were created b/c of one less tank? Because the lone tank in OW2 has too many responsibilities on their shoulders that they can't afford to cover them all. Tank is just a triage machine now, with inevitable errors or lost duties that get them flamed, not for failing, but because they can't be in two/three/four places at once. Great vid, with a lot of necessary details added to the mix. Keep 'em coming.

[@SykoTheOneNOnly]

Having those big pop off games was a product of what OW1 was. Another Tank, Less Tank HP, Less immortality/get-out-of-jail abilities. This isn't even a 6v6 vs 5v5 issue. It really is an OW2 issue with the new characters, and buffs that Tanks and Supports got going into OW2. DPS is the most balanced role and is only broken when one shots are meta, and when they are, it goes to show how unbalanced the game really is, because Tanks and Supports keep DPS in check until they can't with one shots. Personally, I don't care if it's 5v5 or 6v6. There are things I like and dislike about both formats, rather, I just want the game to be balanced better. And no, 6v6 is not the solution. 6v6 had its own set of problems and is just out of the question when Overwatch is now 5v5. Regardless, I'm pretty optimistic about the upcoming changes to burst damage and burst healing, but personally I don't think that's enough when Tanks still have massive health pools, with some Supports having broken abilities.

[@Levi_LS]

stop being optimistic. retard dev team cant fix anything

[@crunkymogus83]

You should make a video on tank doom. Ur thoughts on tank doom and the rework and why u don’t play doom anymore.

[@jamesmiddleton8335]

Watching the background gameplay just completely reminded me of what we used to have... Although when you were in the hero select screen there were hero pools which is a hilarious throwback to one of blizzard's many mistakes, although it was a fun novelty for a while, it shouldn't have been in ranked.

[@shadowwolf6546]

Do u have a Playlist just for your ow2 guides on heroes?

[@DressDown22]

I play soldier 69 and i love getting my damage out healed by mercy and getting out dps by zen and kiriko

[@HEXAN-SC]

I have no clue how overwatch can be saved, being a tank I feel so dependent at just blocking for my team and with my bad positioning I just don’t have fun playing overwatch. I’m definitely a casual player but nothing about this game is casual or fun to play long term, it just feels like a job to play. What I’d give to play 6v6 as I’m too new to overwatch to experience that still a low silver.

[@metal100k]

Playing dps means you dont get supported. Supports support themselves, there is only one tank amd they usually get pumped full of support, newer design heroes dont support much at all. Not to mention you get flamed for not 1v5ing and if the other teams dps gets pocketed then its just over. Dps, the role that should have the other roles fear being alone with, has a sole responsibility to not die. Their job isnt to get kills anymore. Its to get the other team to use abilities to make it easier for your tank.

[@jesuissweet]

Looking at the clip it’s shocking to see Bap actually die to genji in that instance. It feels so surreal

[@Dylekt]

Shouldve used boring ass ow2 gameplay, it’s hard to focus on commentary while watching the peak game LOL

[@Crusty_Sword]

True man but hey the watch time retention will probably go up a good bit

[@jacobsotorios8886]

Your time of gaming is over. Play minecraft

[@jacobsotorios8886]

Play other games

[@Dylekt]

@@jacobsotorios8886I think you’re on the wrong channel bud.

[@gamist8166]

as gm5 right now I don't value 5v5. Role queue fixed a lot of problems that the ranked environment caused (imo it could be fixed by simply enforcing no complete one-tricking) meanwhile 5v5 removed complexities of the game for not the same value role queue gave us. I kinda wish open queue was back, but I see why it's not. I don't see why 5v5 is still here though. It was a failure.

[@lukeaustin4465]

In 6v6 I preferred open queue because if I wasn't doing too well on either role I could swap to a different role and provide more value for my team. Then again I played in a 6 stack with my friends who all had mics and were willing to switch.

[@corneliustaifu5681]

3 things that made OW2 feel like a nightmare for DPS players: 1. Support role passive 2. Everything except for DPS getting major buffs 3. One less tank means that everyone else gets more healing All of this makes the game feel frustrating to play as a DPS. Our sole job is to deal damage and get elims, but tanks can do that better plus mitigate damage, and supports can do that just about as well (if not better) and also heal. DPS just feels way less impactful than the other two roles. This is my experience anyway (as a GM DPS player)

[@jacobsotorios8886]

Play other games. There are games literally with everything you wanted in this list

[@fearbreazy5558]

Honestly it feels really bad when a support negates all your cooldowns by pressing one button and then out dueling you because they’re immortal, a lot of the times I feel like I have to try very hard and die to kill one support, as a genji player it really hurts when you dive a support and they throw some bs at the ground and then shoot you in the face, I started to play hanzo to completely ignore supports healing through damage can’t heal through a one shot 🤷‍♂️

[@jorrellrichardson3181]

3:15 I would say the kill isn't worth more because the spawn times are significantly faster. So the squishy dies and is back b4 the end of the teamfight

[@vanderlin4966]

Holy fuck. King's Row gameplay with Rein/Zar literally made me smile so hard. Good times man, here's to hoping we return to it.

[@gavinatorthegr835]

As a Dimond 3-1 reaper, it sucks... like I cant be a proper flanker because tp is too loud, may put me too far to wraith out, and get no value due to support creep. And I can't really be a tank buster because while I can 1v1 a tank with some difficult match-ups, as soon as it becomes a 2v2 with both sides getting one support, the tank is impossible for me to kill. And that leaves me to be a character that just hangs around my tank so I can get ult safely. It just becomes: be near ally tank, shoot enemy tank and close enough squishies, farm ult, use ult, repeat. Playing reaper now just feels so much worse unless you are playing some gimmick bubble reaper comp.

[@pewpew518]

They have completely killed dive. Supports are immortals. Everything counters doom and ball. The game is basically counter watch. They made orisa meta again. Peak ow tank gameplay . Stand there and hold left click . Haven’t played the game since mauga dropped. Just don’t care anymore.

[@sobervision1049]

This game was not meant for 5v5. A change like that is way too drastic for an 8 year old game. If they started out with 5v5 there would be less issue for sure but still plenty issue cuz this is Blizzard we're talking about.

[@wandregisel6385]

I dunno, I'm GM and I still see lots of Doom, though less so than before Mauga obviously. Now a bit more again with the Mauga nerfs

[@AlexTheHorrid]

Post role queue was prime Overwatch. The game finally balanced shield numbers, healing numbers (between 50-65HPS). Cool downs we’re at a good place as well as damage numbers. The game felt like you could play whatever you wanted and still have an impact. Now because of 5v5. It’s terrible. There is no room to really play what you want. Especially as a tank. When back then you could. 6v6 post role queue is king.

[@wandregisel6385]

I don't remember being able to play "whatever you wanted" in OW1, but ok

[@reddeadcobra8295]

@@wandregisel6385it was better than it is now in OW2 in it’s current state. With the level of sustain in OW2 fights are dragged out in similar lengths to the double shield days of OW1, forcing you to pick more burst dps/one shot dps in this game

[@primalinea682]

Double shield

[@immortalace3447]

@@wandregisel6385 october 2020 you could play whatever you wanted it didnt last long though

[@AlexTheHorrid]

@@primalinea682 shields were nerfed they popped like balloons. On top of that I’d bet money you never really played against double shield and if You did the team didn’t execute it well. Post role queue 10x better than what we have now

[@lucky7676]

I think that if the role you have the most heroes for becomes the fastest Q time for your game its a HUGE sign that something has gone wrong. If we look at other games with tank/dps/support (or healer) dps has the most classes and dev time put into it because thats the baseline of the game thatll get the most people outside of the game excited. If that is no longer exciting to the point of instant Q times then something probably went wrong.

[@rogue4340]

Glad someone noticed the changes affecting dps, I already saw this coming when they were making the changes one by one like the brig pack burst healing

[@xenomorph4053]

Big plays in general are just completely absent in Overwatch 2. Like I can't remember the last time I saw a Rein get a five man shatter and then be able to actually kill more than one person. Or a Reaper get more than 2 kills with death blossom. Or a genji get more than 2 kills with blades. With the current state of get out jail free cards with supports ultimates just feel unsatisfying.

[@ismphob]

I'm a reaper one trick and I dont even feel like playing the game everytime I launch it. For every 1 fun game I get I feel like I'm forced to slog through 3-4 annoying games where I'm not allowed to have fun

[@gabrielnieves4103]

Game has been hella boring for me ever since the cancelled pve announcement. Between DF becoming a tank and genji being utter dogshit the game has felt really one dimensional and doesn’t give me the thrill that OW1 did way back when. Season 1 OW2 was nice though.

[@naejimba]

One less tank meant large health buffs, which made healing on them less effective, which combined with a lack of off tank and shields as well as the new map layouts made supports initially feel VERY WEAK. This is especially true with giga chad tanks that can dive them with huge amounts of health and more damage potential. So then supports get buffed, and in the worst way possible with CDs that just negate what other players do, which makes DPS feel very weak, which also makes burst more powerful. What a mess, especially considering most heroes needed far more changes to fit a 5v5 format.

[@jimmyalison633]

I miss OW 1 Genji, I miss when heroes were killable

[@FrankTheTank107]

Tanks: Always easily countered, CCed to death, Mauga, tons of pressure to perform. The most fun tanks are generally the worst while the easy to use ones get buffs every patch. Support: Most important utility, capability to carry the most turning the tides of every fight which adds pressure, has to track everyone to perform optimially DPS: I can't get as many kills as OW1 :(

[@ImHaise]

There's no way that's what you got from the video man

[@x4tfxChallenger]

I am a plat 3/4 player in all rolls. I completely agree with all your points. I found that reaper can make a huge difference, but it is extremely dependent on the enemy team’s comp. If they are playing a slower comp set up, reaper can be a great choice. However, that does not happen often. Thanks for keeping it 💯 Sam!💪🏽

[@patrickstar1164]

I always try to play fun heroes like Genji, and I start losing and switching to Mei and Soldier because how easy it is to get value with them.

[@anecdoteskywalker]

It's interesting that you made this video because I just started playing two after taking a big break since OverWatch 1 and I don't play DPS at all I completely avoid it I didn't even think about it until I watched your video I've just been playing tank and support and enjoying it because every time I play DPS I found myself hating it my main DPS heroes are totally different and I can't catch up, being Torb and Symmetra. I hate what they did to these two

[@Real_MisterSir]

Even a hero like Ana who on paper has been a net nerf since OW1, is actually still a lot stronger now due to the Support role passive, which means she doesn't have to keep the nade for herself healing nor does she have to play by a healthpack or fellow support LOS, meaning she can be much more opportunistic with her positioning and offensive plays and ability use in general. This makes her do more pressure while being less punishable, despite her personal stats on paper being a bit lower. All courtesy of role passive and 5v5 format.

[@frostphoenix8256]

Another point I'll add is that off tanks were the highest damage in the game, and removing all that has FURTHER aggravated the excessive healing. Plus most of the time as a DPS you're engaging alone because your tank has to juggle everything. One of my mains is Winston, but I'm usually forced to spend far less time on the enemy backline than I could in OW 1 (pre brig :( ) because either I'll explode or their brawler will just walk at ours.

[@Sizzyl]

Sucks that we can never go back to play ow1 again. I'll miss 6v6 forever, ow2 just is so much worse in so many ways but there's a 0% chance we get ow1 back in general so we're just stuck with the worse version of the game.

[@darkstrife1]

You chose the perfect game to play in the background, it shows everything that was great about OW1, great vid 👍🏽 DPS getting left behind, very little changes every patch, just constant nerfs or QOL changes... they need some more attention across the board

[@mikaelhellsen4454]

Overwatch 1 just felt more fun. I think the fixation on aim and shooting over hero abilities and teamwork upped the skill requirements but made plays a lot less satisfying.

[@mundaneglue8734]

i feel like teamwork was more prevalent and required to win in ow1 compared to ow2, no one talks in team chat or combos uits or works together anymore imo. the teamwork made ow1 so fun

[@xythiera7255]

No OW2 lower the skill cap becouse there is no way to realy die anymore other then 1 shots and the team aspect is also not realy there anymore like on OW1

[@xythiera7255]

@@mundaneglue8734 The reason is simpel the now monitor everything you say so the risk is to high for somebody to just get something wrong and report you , Second there is no need anymore to combo any ults most ults have become so 1 sided when used that its doesnt matter realy .

[@WorldKeepsSpinnin]

@@xythiera7255 exactly, they punish you for talking, so noone talks. I had like 4 of my accounts banned and i never said anything that was actually toxic just things like, but people can throw openly and nothing happens to them.

[@WorldKeepsSpinnin]

Even with top level aim, it doesn't matter. Your entire role is countered by everything else. Unless you are hitting 100% headshots or playing one shot heros, you aren't killing anything consistently solo. Even playing one shot heros, you aren't killing things consistently because everyone just hides, and your team makes no space because they are so dependent on DPS to take the off tank role now and help in the front line. So if your widow, and your second dps is like genji or tracer, you will never have any space to do anything as widow because for your tank its like 1v5, because you as the widow are looking for picks and not actually helping the front line, and your tracer is in their backline getting completely denied by their supports and your supports are having trouble just keeping your tank alive. So noone gets help, The comp does not synergize together. and samito explains what happens even if you play a comp that can actually help your tank in front line. You can never kill their tank, you cant bait out support cooldowns, you can only dps duel, but the duel is never a fair 1v1, its always a 2v1 atleast and most of the time its a 3v1. So if your team isn't winning at the "One dimensional" way of the game, you lose, end of story. UNLESS the enemy team is much worse then you. But above Masters that will never be the case. The game is more comp dependent now then ever before, which was the exact opposite of what they said they wanted to do with overwatch 2. The game is just in a really bad state. 6v6 just needs to come back.

[@neodaltiair8624]

There are so many times when I fall combo as Genji and they are full health after it hits because of cool downs and healing

[@andreygunz179]

So hes just mad that DPS moved to the back line DPS is dps not a tank So the game is harder so what There is more depth when you need to play outside your team and secure back and side lines

[@QuetZal_OW]

Great video with a lot of amazing points. I'm a genji main and have been playing him since ow1. I recently picked up bap because genji simply isnt fun anymore and it genuinely hurts to see how a beginner to bap with diamond level mechanics can take over a game. There is physically nothing I could do to get more value out of genji than I'm getting out of bap. I'm aware that they're two very different heroes but thats not even the point I'm making. The fact that you can out-frag a genji as a support, while healing ur team, not dying urself because of ur cooldowns and passive, have immortality for your team on a cooldown and have a good and reliable ultimate is beyond me. Keep in mind that I'm new to bap and yet I feel like I provide more value than I am after 250+ hrs on genji. I do get that support has to be an impactful role, but this is too much. (sry for the rant but you're the first one that ive seen address this issue and its honestly good to hear cos mainly playing genji in this state isnt the best for ur sanity)

[@arinrobinson3898]

I've been playing since OW1 beta and I'm a Tracer main. I have to play perfectly but even then most of my kills can be stopped pretty easily. Meanwhile I played kiriko and got to GM in 3 hours. swapping from those high skill flankers like Genji and Tracer to support is just super easy. It's crazy to me that support is that easy and gets that much value for needing to do so little. It honestly feels like I don't even need to try.

[@QuetZal_OW]

and yet ppl still say supports are struggling, when its honestly just a skill issue at that point@@arinrobinson3898

[@huxleydowling8978]

I think its a matter of the other 2 roles simply being a bit too strong in comparison. The only upside DPS has is potential 1 shot mechanics, which only 3 heroes have (if you want to include Souj). DPS used to also possess the strongest movement abilities in the game - a great way to gain an advantage through positioning. But support movement power creep has closed this gap.

[@vizzy6473]

The biggest thing for me is the feeling of the roles versus the actual impact on the game. Obviously support is easily the most impactful role, but it also FEELS the most impactful. Tank players always complain that the role sucks, but it doesn't. It's a very good role, it just FEELS miserable to play because you get bullied by everyone in the lobby, but the act of getting bullied inherently brings you value. With DPS, it's like giving a little sibling the controller that's not plugged in. When a DPS pops off it's usually because they're getting pocketed by a support, get a lot of assistance from the tank, etc. If the DPS player gets all these resources, they have a lot of fun. But if you ACTUALLY give the little brother a plugged in controller and say "1v1 me then," they start to be miserable because of how bad they really are. DPS on their own can't really do anything other than swap Bastion / Mei / Sym / Sombra / etc and make the tank's life miserable. They can't duel supports, they can't duel tanks, they can't duel other DPS that get assistance from their teams, it's either "Isolated dps 1v1" simulator, or "shoot the tank" simulator, and both options feel AWFUL, ESPECIALLY when support cooldowns completely nullify half of the DPS roster alone

[@dorrianbrooks9408]

In OW1 I was a Support main that dropped it for DPS due to the lack of gameplay variety, but OW2 has honestly driven me back to playing Support. I have my fun with my annoying DPS(Sombra, Mei, and Symm) but there is definitely a Oneshot/Burst damage supremacy, and the results are annoying and kinda bring up those same feelings that drew me away from Support. DPS has gameplay variety, but that variety means little when a specific type of DPS is the only kind to consistently get good results.

[@raldux9153]

Bro it's 1 shot supremacy because of SUPPORTWATCH

[@dorrianbrooks9408]

@@raldux9153 ok

[@trianglesqrt2576]

Rein+Zarya on kingsrow... good times

[@Amia_Lily]

Started over watch on launch as a genii main, liked it so much I built my first pc, now it’s been months since I’ve even wanted to even queue dps

[@Skunkcommentary]

I am a reaper main and has been that since I began playing OW in 2017. I've always made reaper work in almost any situation (except GOATS) in OW1 but now in OW2, I make reaper work ONLY when I play with friends who pocket me. Reaper is not even the hero I feel that I pick the most this season. I feel like I am playing more and more Mei to counter the enemy genjis that my teammates does not know what to do about or Sojourn cuz she's broken. The heroes that are not affected by the BS-ness of OW2 are the heroes a lot of people think are boring to play against, a.k.a Bastion, Hanzo and Sym who either melt enemies or one tap anyone from any range. OW need to do something about the balance. Switch it up. Make it fun, not easy or balanced. CoD MW2 (OG) was tons of fun, but sure as hell not balanced in the slightest. At this point, I'd rather have an unbalanced but extremely fun game, than a "balanced" boring game.

[@jfralick100]

Honestly, all they have to do to make significant progress towards fixing this game is remove open que (or at worse combine it with) and replace it with 6v6 both qp and comp. That way they don't have to admit they were completely and utterly wrong about 5v5 and ow2 amd we can actually still play the game we love. Open que currently already has hp reductions for tanks so it will be a lit more plug and play. Yes they may need to do some extra nerfs across the board for tanks but actually maybe not since 5v5 open que 2 tank sacraficed an extra dps 6v6 would not. I really hope they do this or just completely revert to 6v6 all together (but seems unlikely) I just miss the diversity and the intricacy. Tank is literally rock paper scissors until you or the enemy find a tank youre just bad at and diff you. Supports use to be more challenging and thoughtful until everyone had to be as powerful as kiriko (as opposed to nerfing her) so now supports are literally brain dead and have no repercussion as you just use 1 of your multiple get out of jail free cards. Dps.... Well, the proof is in the pudding as he showed. Please team 4.... Bring back 6v6. Keeo the tank reworks and we'll be ok.

[@WarlogicGaming]

So I'm between low plat-low diamond on all 3 roles. Total flex player, but I play a lot of Doom/Winston/Genji/S76. I do notice some of the things you mention, but at a lower rank you can still pop off on tank and dps pretty hard if you play your cards right. Of course immo, suzu, and especially mercy can be frustrating at times, but I don't feel like it's as much of a showstopper as it would be at a higher rank. That's just my perspective/opinion as a common shtter though.

[@gutgrinder200]

I've only been playing since OW2 when it first dropped. But the 1 thing that has always frustrated me and noticed within a couple months of playing is that how the tanks and supports do just as much damage if not more than most of the dps characters all while having a wayy more forgiving kit.

[@nKe.]

Healers are better dps than the "dps" heroes.

[@axcey]

Hey Sam I’m currently on the toilet while watching this and I agree with you 5v5 has destroyed the games fundamentals, thanks for the vid😁

[@acematrixow]

It feels like every character is the same, i never vod myself or die in a 1v1 and feel like the only thing i can do diffrent is not go for a play, or aim better, i play console so playing genji and tracer is alr a little more clunky, but it does feel like supps cant die leading to less in amd out gameplay and more sitting in there back line poking hoping the ana comea at me without her other support, and i also play low tier constructed play, so maybe my view is slightly skewed

[@smqke]

I’m Diamond and agree with every point made and have noticed them all in my games. I have 3-4x on DPS over the other roles, I think it’s the worst role in the game by some margin, I forget the passive exists sometimes. But best believe I’m going to continue to play DPS because I like the characters.

[@commandoghost5883]

For me I been getting very bored playing dps

[@pumpgunpaul2886]

I really do not like how many abilities deny kills. Suzu/Lamp and also rez (though that has been around for some time)

[@TheeNaturalGamer]

I never thought about it but I noticed the difficulty increases as a dps player I did notice tanks will not die

[@Carebear_Pooh]

about 15:35 - small remark : in OW2, the average player is *not* in plat. the average player is much closer to being silver, and in ow2 plat is already rather high. Much higher than it was in ow1.

[@calebbb3103]

All this is true and the worst part is non dps players thinking they know better. I’m so glad we have Sam as a voice for the dps playerbase I’ve never disagreed with a take no glaze just fax

[@drluna11]

As a genji main, it's so frustrating to be forced on ash or some kinda of hitscan because people don't understand simple fundamentals anymore. Dive is nonexistent, and any risk you take is shut down or gets negated by a couple of abilities. People now just play this game where nobody does anything, and we just wait till counterswaps kill one of the 2 teams its so stupid I like playing a character and sticking to it not because I can't counterswap. It's brainded easy to pick the right hero, but more for a challenge and honestly to get better there is like a checklist you gotta try to get out, CD that are fight turning when you are trying to comit to a play and even when you can do all of that correctly healing still out heals your perfect play. I know one shot is not fun, but sometimes it feels like it's the only way to play this game anymore from a solo dps standpoint, or you use really strong ult combos. Every character that I enjoy playing is just way too weak in neutral fights, and now awkward has every gold dps thinking dmg is the way their so focused on trying to do a dps job they barely heal in mid fights I gotta hide in the corner and spam x beside them like hey can you do your job so I can go back on my angle I understand its not always like that but this game sucks now too much OP abilities from the support line up

[@larczu]

remember those days where we would hold grav for nano blade these days u don’t even see tvat

[@a.cooper]

i generally like 5v5, but a big issue i feel it caused is mercy pocket becoming even more oppressive. when can u can only duo q and theres only 1 tank, a giga dps is wayyyy more insane

[@Wizardbeard91]

I never played overwarch 1 but as a genji main I feel like I have to be better than the whole lobby to stand on even ground if I dash a 1hp enemy they don't die cause of mercy dash or suzu or life grip I feel like my damage isn't fast enough to even do damage I feel like I have to kill supports or nothing happens but to kill supports I need my team to be good enough to keep them busy enough that the whole enemy team doesn't switch focus to me

[@bishup3]

There are a few options as a mid level player. You play tank and get all the heals pumped into you but also get all the focus or you play healer and heal yourself. If you play dps it has to be a mei or soldier right behind the tank because if you try to take an off angle or flank you aren’t gonna get healed unless you queue with a support

[@Ontarianmm]

Honestly, I feel the DPS role far more about baiting out cooldown and getting rid of those 2nd chance abilities over getting kills. Forcing CDs is way more valuable now than it ever was, the issues is that isn't as fun for players as getting kills, it is just kind of stale and your impact is far less noticeable as getting the kills.

[@jemo9389]

As a masters ball main (I was 3100 in ow1) ow2 has been the worst experience for me. Im stuck playing a role that I dont to want to play. If I dive backline there is no room for mistakes and I have to pray whatever giga buffed brawl tank doesnt 1v4 or 2v4 my team. If I play passive, there are better heroes I can play and I dont have fun. Role passives and overpowered cooldowns make diving supports a nightmare. Its crazy how valuable the support passive is, without the passive you could poke the supports and force them to use cooldowns and to counter that you can have an off tank help your supports which raises the skill ceiling of the game. It's a shame that this game went to 5v5 because the problem was not overpowered tank combinations, the problem was the lack attention and updates to overwatch 1.

[@nottoksic]

Dawg u the ball who’s throwing my games in masters 1😭

[@jemo9389]

I know ball isnt a dps but he has the same problems

[@jemo9389]

Im trying my best homie@@nottoksic

[@nottoksic]

@@jemo9389 just play Mauga and wait for the nerfs then you’re good to “roll” with anything you want.

[@Fesititi]

I play this game on and off casually. Sitting in diamond on both Support and DPS. On DPS I feel like I need to hypersweat every single game just to be able to keep up. If I am not on the top of my game, it's immediately felt as if we're a man down. On support, I can just kind of breeze by without making a play all the time and still get some form of base value. And with how flexible and good supports are at taking duels and making plays, I just ask myself why I even play DPS in the first place. If there was a tracking hero like Soldier or Tracer on support, I don't think I'd play the role again.

[@Ember-Rodriguez]

There is a lot I could talk about but the ones that I feel like talking about is that its feast or famine depending on who the giga buff healers choose to target. since targeting other DPS is the only real option your game is more or less in their hands. Some games I have 15 deaths some games I have 1 or even none. Also I would contest that kills mean more in OW2 for the simple fact that DPS have been so devalued that if the matchups dont work out a tank and healer can solo the rest of the team. I am a mid masters player who often plays with lower rank friends so keep that in mind but Its a nightly occurrence that I have a pop off moment on hanzo (only way to kill things solo) and even with a 1-2 v 4 the 1-2 can often win if its the right matchup. It really is just a tanks world that we live in.

[@diyanshu5573]

Someone else said that DPS has the luxury of variety, thats right but I think one of the biggest problems with this game is how some abilities don't take a lot of of effort to use but can easily deny other abilites which are more skillfull. For example, I often play genji (he's just fun to play imo) and I see an ana alone and away from the team, I sneak onto her (without using dash) chip her down , force her to self anti, only then I engage with dash (she missed her sleep) and I get her down to like 50 health but there comes the lifeweaver, presses 1 button and grips ana and heals her and I have to disengage cause all my cooldowns are gone. It's just unfun to play against, the amount of burst healing in the game is out of control and its just boring to play against. I have an idea where blizz nerfs burst healing makes healing a lower hp/s, upgrade the tank passive where they recieve healing 125%(or a number which make tanks actually survivable) faster (eg. mercy heals tanks at 75hp/s and others at save 60 HP/s) and balance from there. They should bring back experimental cards again, they can test out crazy scenarios like this, I'd also change the support passive completely cause honestly, its way too good.

[@nevertoooldgaming_Rave]

The problem is you can get 2 tapped by a support. Which should not have ever been allowed. It's supposed to be rock (tank) paper (support) scissors (dps). Rock (tank) beats scissors (dps) by holding points, surviving burst, and punishing awareness. Paper (supports) beats rock (tank) by allowing tanks to live so they can handle the DPS. Scissors (dps) beats paper (support) by punishing awareness with flanks and raw dps on supports. One of the above, isn't fucking working as intended because Paper has way too much agency and ability to 1v1 or even 1v2 DPS and again, Kiriko can fucking 2 tap which should be immediately removed from the game. So if the SUPPORT role can do the job of DPS and ALSO keep the tanks moving forward, what the fuck is the point of DPS then? Riddle me that Matban.

[@starseth]

As a tank main, I dont think there was ever a time in OW1 where i complained about a support (Other than perma cc) But it feels like everygame, Oh man They have ana kiri, if we dont have ana kiri, we are actively at a disadvantage and it sucks, The balance of OW2 is so bad its insane.

[@dark_matter8420]

I still think that the Tank role feels worse to play, because it's constant rock paper scissors, and you're the big punching bag for all the damage and CC. But I agree to DPS does feel pretty ass to play with how little influence some heroes in the role get.

[@Apocalypse754]

that was one of the main reasons why i stopped playing OW2. they catered to support balancing and made them OP that you have to effectively try twice or three times as hard just to barely kill a support. while they can just no brain throw abilities to easily counter me with no thought being put into it. so frustrating. i miss OW1