Why Sedevacantism is False

[@beast2sniper]

The church is going to be Here forever, the Holy Catholic Church

[@GreyhawkTheAngry]

@Joseph Myers The Church remains Holy regardless of who is pope.

[@Jayne_521]

Jimmy, I grew up in the N.O. and have attended it for 95% of my life, still do, yet I can see quite clearly the HUGE differences between it and the TLM. The differences are disappointing too. The changes aren’t ONLY reflected in the words said (which are big too) but also in the physical actions of the Priest and the people. I honestly don’t understand how you can call the changes small and unnoticed! Go to the TLM for a month and the attend the N.O. and tell us you can barley notice any differences. We all know Vatican II had 6 Protestants advising on the new Mass. so claims it is somewhat Protestant influenced is very reasonable.

[@akwinas_a_o]

This has nothing do with the legitimacy of the church though. If you read the Old Testament, it is full of people in power making really dumb decisions. It didn’t make them any less legitimate authorities. Leaving the Church, cosplaying the Latin Mass (even granting you have a deep respect for it), and claiming to be the true expression of the faith as groups like SSPX do is simply a rehash of Protestantism.

[@pati8278]

Why does Catholic Answers have the freemasons compass in their logo?

[@tomws5594]

It's an A.

[@justinjustinjustin10]

Nice of you to stop by I thought you'd be creating or investigating a new secret of Fatima or something

[@dpiroch]

Both forms are valid. But to state that the novus ordo has no insignificant changes? The rites are vastly different. Just as one example, communion in only permitted on the tongue, there is no concelebration, the Mass is said Ad orientam as befits the coming of Creator at the end of the world from the East, there is no “Luther’s table,” etc. I don’t need to be a Protestant to see that the two forms are vastly different...as has been written upon extensively by those with much better theological training than myself. God bless.

[@darthvader7780]

Why immediately label and then castigate sedevecantists when the caller didn't even finish his description of the group he was talking with? How do YOU know, Jimmy, that he was talking to sedevecantists? Sedevecantists don't believe that Christ's church will disappear.

[@rucamo1]

If Sedervecantism is wrong... what would you call what is going on in Rome now....Good?The Hierarchy of our Catholic Church is loaded with homosexuals as well as the priesthood so what can be worse then that.

[@standev1]

Sedevacantism is wrong. However it does not follow that what's going on in Rome now is good.

[@ilonkastille2993]

Russell Montminy what is going on in Rome today Has nothing to do with the teachings of the church. It is a totally different issue.

[@giovanniledezma2202]

@@ilonkastille2993 hey Im so confused with sedevacantism

[@ilonkastille2993]

@@giovanniledezma2202 I can understand that. What is going now, the terrible things which are breaking us up and separating us and are giving those who hate the catholic church , reasons for "proof" of how bad we are, are not going to be solved by the sedevacantism people. It is considered a heresy to be against the pope, even if he does not behave as we want him to behave. The Holy spirit leads the Church and we have had bad popes before. They are only a minority but they CANNOT change the MAGISTERIUM (teachings of the Church). They do not have that power and that is the most important thing. What they can do is to sow discord and confusion which is a dangerous thing. God allows this to happen ( this is how I understand it) so the people with real faith will be sifted from the others who only pretend to have the faith but do not follow it. The sedevacantists think they have the real faith but in fact they are not willing to go through the trials and tribulations of life, which is also part of our faith. Instead of sticking together to leave our Church intact and unified, they are making it worse and could create a schism. That is my thought about it anyway. A victory for the EVIL ONE again.

[@giovanniledezma2202]

@@ilonkastille2993 thank you so much

[@1JAMINben]

Sedevacantism reminds me of how Protestants say Constantine corrupted the Church. The bishops weren't gonna just accept a giant change that would invalidate the Church!

[@luisrverasuarez6611]

they did, with very little exceptions

[@josephhickey2849]

1JAMINben Read about the early history of Anglicanism and the persecution of the orthodox Catholic Church in England. The Anglican heretic bishops did go along with such a change. People are weak and most will abandon their faith when faced with extreme fear or coercion or extreme bribery. Our Lord says few are saved. Jimmy Akin needs to address actual sedevacantist objections which I have never heard in this show. You need to address the strongest possible argument to show that your side is correct. The truth is, sedevacantist arguments are rock solid. I hope people will engage with me instead of deleting my comment. When your theological position is true you should be willing to engage because you love the other person and want to bring them to your side and save their soul. But in my experience people who accept Vatican II just refuse to engage which demonstrates their apathy or lack of charity for the other person.

[@1JAMINben]

Well I guarantee you I won't be to educated on this issue. I literally converted a month ago to Catholicism. The whole Church isn't going to buckle under the pressure of everyone. Jesus promised us that would never happen. I would never want to go back to anything like Protestantism again, no matter how much Latin it uses. I'm a papist until the end. But, I suppose I should ask you to defend why you think there is no longer any valid Pope. And I should ask if it's possible for another Pope to come back.

[@josephhickey2849]

For some reason KZbin won't let me send the longer response I wanted to. If you can see this, I might make a video instead directly responding, unless you object. Click on my channel around the end of today. Let's also keep the dialogue cordial.

[@barrymcgrath4303]

Joseph Hickey Who then was your last valid pope,Pius XII or John XXIII? Where are your documents proving that in 1958 onwards that there's no visible successor ? If you are correct then Matt 16 :15-19 has problems, who was speaking in Matt 16:15-19?

[@cedonullidude]

The caller at the end of this video did make a valid point. The mass is far more Protestant in tone now than before the reforms. It’s ethos has moved from a very theocentric style of worship and towards a more anthropocentric style of worship.

[@cedonullidude]

Evan If sedevecantists are Protestants then Vatican II “Catholics” are Liberal Protestants.

[@_greaterpoint_3729]

cedonullidude Exactly, and that's a great one , I'll be using that one now haha, its true, vatican 2 modern catholics are liberalized and watered down.

[@_greaterpoint_3729]

Evan Vatican 2 was a Protestant reformation, Changed So MUCH. Ever look at it that way? Traditionalist catholics on the other hand, want to keep the Church INTACT

[@RGTomoenage11]

cedonullidude There is nothing Protestant about the Mass. I was around Protestants for years. The Catholic Mass is centered around Jesus and Jesus in the Eucharist while the protestant service is about the preaching.

[@kujosinclair7939]

@@RGTomoenage11 It would be a good thing if you were a true Catholic. As it is you're blind to what the Vatican Council 2 did to destroy the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and Catholic teaching in order to become Protestant.

[@Joseph_G]

The answer that sedevacantists must be wrong because Jesus promised his Church would hold against the gates of Hades really doesn't answer Sedevacantism. Wouldn't they just say that it has held, and is holding, and that it is them?

[@_greaterpoint_3729]

Joe G Agreed

[@MrRezitinas]

Except they have no authority. Who is their pope? Nobody.

[@Marco85111]

@@MrRezitinas their pope is apparently vaticoncatholic.com on youtube

[@marytreaty9357]

@@MrRezitinas we don't have a pope,true, but if you look in history during times of no pope(long times between elections, multiple people claiming they were pope,etc) we listened to the previous writings of the church. As sedevacantists we are listening to the church preVatII because these popes have been heretic a.k.a not true popes

[@MrRezitinas]

@@marytreaty9357 but there is a pope. He might not be great, but there have been sub optimal popes before

[@akaMakdaddy]

I've recently been exposed to the sedV view. Usually I appreciate your answers, but not this time. The sedV view may be "absurd" but you would do better to quantify it by refuting the specific claims. If a protestant claimed that baptism is only symbolic and that catholic claims are "absurd" they would be discredited. Your answer added a few very broad strokes to support your position but hardly a winning rebuttal.

[@themetkaf]

My main gripe with Catholic phone-ins is that quite often where a much more considered and nuanced answer is required to do full justice to the question, they seem to prioritise getting as many callers on the show as possible, to the detriment of the show's raison d'etre: providing answers. Especially where the implications of the questions and answers are so important, one should expect quality over quantity, lest the raison d'etre of the 'show' become 'entertainment'.

[@CadillacBunner]

in order to survive in radio, the speaker must speak using simplified terms and generalizations. It's the medium. You are supposed to do your homework. " Be eager to present yourself as acceptable to God, a workman who causes no disgrace, imparting the word of truth without deviation." (2 Tm 2:15)

[@BritishPatriot662-4]

I agree and it doesn't help when they give wrong answers

[@raymondsaint4156]

The Catholic Church went from fervently defending the truth faith, to bending the knee to Mohammad.. Babylon has fallen, fallen...

[@gutfrets1693]

mashallah brother the light of Islam will come to the west

[@CroElectroStile]

You take what Pope Francis is saying as church dogma :/ pope infalability doesnt mean a pope can't make mistakes, it's about leading the church in the right direction and the church is still clear at the salvation only through Jesus, it seems the Pope think that with preaching Jesus at them he will only find a brick wall and he thinks that his method will be more effective. who knows?

[@connorreeder5766]

@@CroElectroStile The Pope cannot be a heretic, or teach or lead the church into heresy. All the post-V2 antipopes have done this as V2 in itself is a heretical council.

[@CroElectroStile]

@@connorreeder5766 you are a heretic

[@connorreeder5766]

@@CroElectroStile No. Your "popes" who have destroyed the church are

[@ere1924]

He is very ignorant about the Sedevacantist message. First off we do believe that the church still lives on through sedevacantists priests and bishops. We also do not believe that the Catholic Church is fallen as our name literally states the "Seat is vacant" meaning that we do not follow the illegitimate popes after Pope Pius XII. Lastly the church has changed, just look at the differences its really blatant.

[@venturatshilombo1752]

What’s the difference between my Protestant friends who insist on various interpretations of church tradition and sedevencatism? It all has a very Martin Luther/ Alex Jones conspiracy feel to it.

[@proudsede3804]

Protestants deny the papal office. We just deny the validity of the papal holder. The comparison between us and the protestants is based on nothing.

[@JdAskins99]

It is also a stretch to compare Martin Luther to Alex Jones. Indulgences were a big problem in the church. Martin Luther didn't want to defect, he just wanted to help keep us on the right path.

[@Flagrum3]

@Drew Askins- Martin Luther was a heretic, a fool, and a worker of Satan. The whole business of indulgences was a fraud, as it was through only a small minority and not a practice of the True Roman Catholic Church. Martin Luther was in all probability either insane or demon possessed. A careful study of his life and his doings should wake you up to that. Protestants follow the teachings of men, not of God.

[@Wilantonjakov]

I wouldn't say I'm a sedevecantist but this comment proves to me that many people who criticise sedevecantism don't actually understand it.

[@annabanana2623]

Except that Alex Jones has been right on everything.

[@TheHimbeerjoghurt]

That was just bad. I'm not a SV but "small changes in the wording"? Are you serious? Every one who has been in a NOM and a TLM cann tell you that there are very big differences. Also: Your arguments are simply not good. Yes, Hades will not overcome the church. The Sedis believe that they are the church though, so why exactly are they wrong?

[@gailstone1636]

I would like Jimmy Atkin to debate brother Peter , we need more debate.

[@Jayne_521]

Jimmy, if you watch some Anglican Masses, or a mainstream Protestant Mass, and you will see very little differences from the N.O. There is more differences between the N.O. and the TLM than the N.O. and Mainstream Protestant Masses.

[@annabanana2623]

Yup. Novus Ordo is invalid.

[@CadillacBunner]

I don't agree. The Anglican eucharistic rites (I and II) as well as morning prayer, day prayer and compline in the Augustinian breviary are really quite different from our prayers. There are multiple breviaries based on what county you live in (York, Wales or London). The Apostles' creed is more commonly used than the Nicene. Henry and Augustine sought to make an English language liturgy. Novus ordo retains all features of the Latin mass (except it is in English (except for Advent)). I think Anglicanism is very different from what is called "modern Roman catholicism" today.

[@ragejinraver]

I actually went to a Catholic Anglican right service last year . And the Anglo-Catholic has more reverence like the traditional Latin Mass . Not to mention they're extremely similar . The novus ordo on the other hand is like a completely different religion all together

[@supernatural2029]

the catholic church looks like a protestant church sometimes with charismatic groups and stuff like that, I was checking the videos of this group but I found they are not very clear.

[@giovannimartini6405]

Just because an idea is coming from protestant sources doesn't have to mean it's incompatible with Catholicism. We still have things in common from them.

[@MillionthUsername]

The charismatic renewal is not Protestant. It's an outpouring of the Holy Spirit as happened on Pentecost. Protestants do not own the Holy Spirit. You can read about the charismatic gifts and being filled with the Spirit in Corinthians. Look it up. Paul clearly describes a charismatic prayer meeting and gives teaching on both seeking the gifts and doing everything in right order. John the Baptist said that he baptized with water but that Jesus would baptize with the Holy Spirit and fire. That is what happened on Pentecost. If anyone tells you that that can't happen to you or that God doesn't pour out the Spirit anymore, or not in this way anymore, they don't know what they're talking about. There is a false apologetic around that says God did everything in you already at Baptism and Confirmation, but this is clearly untrue as the Christian life is not static. We are not products that come off an assembly line. Our knowledge may be imperfect. Our experience of God may be imperfect. Our expectations may be off. Most people today know and understand that they've been short-changed by a very tepid and confused Church, and they testify to having deep powerful conversions later in life having left the Church for decades or feeling like they were never taught, catechized, evangelized in the first place. Many have even had a conversion experience outside the Church and have had to make their way back. So for someone to tell you not to learn from others and not to have them pray over you for the infilling of the Spirit when you earnestly and humbly seek it is a terrible indictment of that so-called teacher. No one is messing with the sacraments of Baptism or Confirmation by instructing you and praying over you. There is no teaching that you somehow receive the Spirit once and never again. That would be absurd. For a Christian, the Holy Spirit is supposed to live in them, but if they have not really come to know God in a deep conscious way yet due to a wayward life or insufficient knowledge, teaching, example, etc., then it is proper to ask for the Spirit in this way. It is also right there in Scripture to seek the charismatic gifts. The Catholic Church *is* charismatic by nature. This is, of course, recognized in the New Testament and in lives of the saints, but it should be a normal part of the Christian life everywhere and always. It's part of our inheritance and thus our right as Christians. Don't let anyone steal that from you.

[@benbernardgraham2286]

i do not understand the response.

[@nathanc.8821]

PapalSoldier can you explain what changed with the sacraments?

[@eensrds]

A great question but too deep for a KZbin reply. Many people are aware that the new mass is invalid but don't realize how the other sacraments have changed. The most important change is with orders (ordinations of priests and consecrations of bishops). If you really want to understand this issue, the best book I know of on the subject is The Problems with the Other Sacraments by Dr. Coomaraswamy and Fr. Radecki.

[@_greaterpoint_3729]

Jimmy akin wasn't nice, was he cranky or something??? The caller made a super valid question, i agree, modern catholic churches are so watered down from what they USED to be, latin mass rite , etc. Jimmy says the changes are "minor and insignificant" LIES !

[@dodymahulette3444]

@_Greater Point_ i'm a protestant who is currently attending RCIA class. and i would like to say that what he's saying at 5:44 till the rest of the video are true

[@3ggshe11s]

But the changes were minor. The form changed, from Latin to Novus Ordo, but the substance of the Mass was largely untouched. Read a Catholic missal from before Vatican II and compare it to the modern Mass. The Mass is practically the same thing. And the Eucharist is still the Eucharist.

[@candyclews4047]

Jimmy Akin is stating facts and maybe that is why he seems more 'authoritative' than usual. Sedevacantism is a wolf in sheep's clothing, a very dangerous idea, leading many astray just as Protestantism did. As Jimmy says, it has no credibility whatsoever.

[@Flagrum3]

@Candy Clews - You are a lost soul. You are so blind you don't recognise you are being led astray by your Vatican II Apostate church and the demons that rule it. Jimmy Akin is most dangerous as he spews lies, he is simply a heretic who teaches Vatican II apostasy. Do yourself a favour and investigate for yourself; Novus Ordo watch or Vaticancatholic. Just watch some of their videos to get the true perspective of Sedevacantism and how we are true Catholics. A few hours of your life may save your soul, it can't hurt. Also look at the fruits of the Vatican II church since its inception and changes, how is the church doing today? What are they teaching? Read from true Popes like my favourite Leo XIII and compare. God Bless you to see the light.

[@Flagrum3]

@Moe Gibbs -Absolutely!

[@400constantine]

What do you think about the Magic videos produced by the Dimonds? Apostasy?

[@voxxpopulisuxx]

Aikin builds a massive strawman. Sedes do not hold that the Papacy has failed. Or that the Church has failed. These jokers dont even bother to learn what sedes actually teach. If francis is a pope THEN THE CHURCH HAS DEFECTED. Tiny differences on wording! They Changed the entire MASS! And yes MANY Bishops fought against the Changes.

[@superior9980]

Evan Not when Pope Pius V condemns dying so as unlawful. Next!

[@superior9980]

Evan Even Councils cannot change the mass. In his famous Bull Quo Primum, Pope St. Pius V forbade changing the Traditional Latin Mass. Pope St. Pius V, Quo Primum Tempore, July 14, 1570: ***"Now, therefore, in order that all everywhere may adopt and observe what has been delivered to them by the Holy Roman Church, Mother and Mistress of the other churches, it shall be unlawful henceforth and forever throughout the Christian world to sing or to read Masses according to any formula other than this Missal published by Us... accordingly, no one whosoever is permitted to infringe or rashly contravene this notice of Our permission, statute, ordinances, command, direction, grant, indult, declaration, will, decree and prohibition. Should anyone venture to do so, let him understand that he will incur the wrath of Almighty God and of the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul"*** Pope Pius XII, Sacramentum Ordinis (#1), Nov. 30, 1947 ***"...the Church has no power over the 'substance of the sacraments,' that is, over those which, with the sources of divine revelation as witness, Christ the Lord Himself decreed to be preserved in a sacramental sign"*** The words "the mystery of faith" are declared by Pope St. Pius V and Pope Eugene IV to be part of the consecration formula and Pope Innocent III declared that these words were received from Christ. The deliberate removal of these words from the consecration by Antipope Paul VI invalidate the New mass

[@superior9980]

Evan You are actually the one who is twisting Church documents. Your argument that Quo Primum was a disciplinary decree fails. This decree is based in the dogma that any pastor of the Church, regardless of who they are, who attempts to change a rite into a new rite is anathema (this can be found in the Council of Trent Session 7 Canon 13 on the "Sacraments in General". Since it is based off of dogma, it holds greater weight then a mere disciplinary law. You are very dishonest and seem to have trouble reading. ***By our Apostolic authority...we order and decree... that this present Constitution can never be revoked or modified, but shall forever remain valid and have the force of law."*** This is solemn language defined By the infallible Magisterium since it is an application of Divine Law. Doesn't it erk you even a little bit to think about the fact that for six hundred years, the Popes have made a solemn profession at their coronation, a public and solemn oath, that they don't have the power to change the liturgy, if in fact they do? Or the fact that the Tridentine Profession of Faith established by Pope Pius IV, which binds Catholics to the Traditional rites "received and approved" was the Traditional Latin Mass given at the time. The traditional mass, since it cannot be revoked or modified, cannot be abrogated, it alone is the mass which the Latin Mass must celebrate. You also abuse that quote. Of course the missal was allowed to be revised. There were abuses in the medieval rites. That was why the Traditional rite had and was codified. To prevent unlawful deviation! Please repent of your schism for the Holy Catholic Church outside of which there is no salvation.

[@superior9980]

Evan What I find really strange is that you find condemnation of a service so fruitless and an obvious departure from the Catholic faith comparable to schism. You are obviously a heretic since you have nothing to refute Pope St. Pius V solemn pronouncement with his Apostolic Authority that the any changes to the mass are unlawful, incurring the wrath of Almighty God with the bull not being able to be revoked or modified. I find it quite sad that you intentionally ignore the fact that the Popes for six hundred years took an oath at their coronation that they don't have the power to change the mass or the fact that the Council of Trent declared anathema the idea that mass can be changed. You ask what authority a Catholic has to recognize the mass being invalid. The fact of the matter is that we go by the Magisterium. Dogmatic canons can be used by ALL the faith as the Council of Trent declared. Pope Pius IV, Council of Trent, Sess. 13, Chap. 4: " these are the matters which in general it seemed well to the secret Council to teach to the faithful of Christ regarding the sacrament of order. ***It has, however, resolved to condemn the contrary in definite and appropriate cannons in the following manner, so that all, making use of the rule of faith, with the assistance of Christ, may be able to recognize more easily the Catholic church in the mist of the darkness of so many errors***." This also applies sir, to condemning people as heretics (sadly, such as yourself and your heretical antipope). You are not in communion with the Chair of Peter. You are in communion with a non Catholic heretic. How do we know? Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum (#9), June 29, 1896: " The practice of the church has always been the same, as shown by the unanimous teaching of the Fathers, who were won't to hold as outside Catholic communion, *** and alien to the Church, whosoever would recede in the least degree from any point of her Doctrine proposed by her authoritative Magisterium***". Has Francis ever receded from the Magisterium? Dozens of times! I could mention the fact that he has taken part in false ecumenism (such as his celebration of Hanukah with the Jews) which Pope Pius IX condemned as grounds for recognizing someone as an apostate. However, I will give you three statements from him that will make you a fool if you consider him a Catholic while saying this in his Public statement to the Delegation of Chief Rabbinate of Isreal: L'Osservatore Romano, January 8, 2016, page 2. " the Jewish delegation took the opportunity to express its appreciation regarding the new document issued by the Pontifical Commission for Religious Relations with the Jews on the occasion of the aforementioned anniversary. This document written for the Catholic faithful as a theological reflection on the relationship of the Church to the Jewish People and titled 'The gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable' (c.f.. Romans 11:29), ***affirms the enternal validity of the Divine Covenant with the Jewish People who are called to be loyal to Torah. Accordingly the document affirms the Integrity of the Jewish faith and understanding of scripture and that there is no intent on the part of the Church to convert Jews***..." Or this regarding human rights. L'Osservatore Romano, January 12, 2018, p.9. " among the human rights that I would also like to mention today is the right to freedom of thought, conscience and of religion, including the freedom to change religion. Sad to say, it is well known that the right to Religious Freedom is often disregarded..." Or this regarding Justification during his press conference on flight from Armenia to Rome on June 26, 2016. In being asked if there will be a withdrawal of the excommunication of Martin Luther, Francis directly states: " *** I think that the intentions of Martin Luther were not mistaken... and today Lutherans and Catholics, Protestants, all of us agree on the doctrine of justification. On this point, which is very important, he did not err... that document of justification I think is one of the richest ecumenical documents in the world...***" In case you didn't get the gist of those three quotes, Francis believes in justification by faith alone, the Old Covenant is still valid, and believes in the condemned opinion of freedom of religion and conscience. To hold him as a pope means that you believe that this is the true faith, since to be recognize as a Catholic, you need to profess the true faith. He is a heretic and therefore not the Pope. Please repent and see vaticancatholic.com for critical information on how to save your soul.

[@markvincent4921]

Liturgy comes under the secondary object of infallibility.

[@delilahalpaca4793]

You look like someone who would give this kind of answer.

[@peterlamb7824]

This chap is plain ignorant. Changing the form of Sacraments is "playing with wording". Sedevacantism is the only correct Catholic response to the great apostasy.

[@CadillacBunner]

Where will you go to church? What can you tell your eager faithful young RCIA candidates? That everything they are working hard to know is false?

[@Polack21]

Jurisdiction is the Achilles heal of sedevacantism. The Church's authority to do what it does comes from our Lord and flows through the Pope, even if the Pope spouts heretical views. If heresy and jurisdiction cannot exist together, then a dying Catholic mans confession to an eastern orthodox priest (no Catholic priest available) would be in vain. The Church has always allowed confession to any validly ordained priest in states of necessity/emergency, which would be impossible if heresy necessarily deprives one of jurisdiction.

[@ScreamingReel500]

@Grim Graven Cemetery I don't think they understand Sacred Traditions. Catechism #83. Or reject the magisterium totally. The police broke the law so the law is no good, and we can burn and loot the cities and business...Same mentality as BLM.

[@francisoconner3596]

@@Polack21 Wrong. Not under the modernization happening during the Vatican II sect counterfeit church, new gospel, and new religion. In 1846 Our Lady of La Salette told two French children that “Rome would lose the Faith and be eclipsed by the Antichrist.”No, this does not mean that the Roman Catholic Church/Faith was eliminated. It just means that it is now a Remnant like it was during the Arian crisis.

[@francisoconner3596]

@@Polack21 I say this out of love and charity for you and your soul. Paul VI had six protestant ministers developed a new mass, he also told a very close friend of his that he was going to Protestantise the Catholic Church. The six protestant ministers who helped design the New Mass were: Doctors George, Jasper Shepherd, Kunneth, Smith and Thurman. When the New Mass came out in 1969, Cardinals Ottaviani, Bacci, and some other theologians wrote to Paul VI about it. Keep in mind that what they said about the New Mass concerns the Latin version, the so-called “most pure” version of the new mass. Their study is popularly, known as the Ottaviani Intervention. It states: “The Novus Ordo (the New Mass) represents, both as a whole and in its details, a striking departure from the Catholic theology of the Mass as it was formulated in Session 22 of the Council of Trent.” “The Ottaviani Intervention, Rockford, IL: Tan Books” They could clearly see that the Latin version of the New Mass was a striking departure from the teachings of the Council of Trent. Of the twelve offertory prayers in the Traditional Mass, only two are retained in the New Mass. The deleted offertory prayers are the same ones that the protestant heretics Martin Luther and Thomas Cranmer eliminated. The New Mass was promulgated by Paul VI, with the help of six protestant ministers. Paul VI even admitted to his good friend Jean Guitton that his intention in changing the Mass was to make it protestant. Jean Guitton wrote: “the intention of pope Paul VI with regard to what is commonly called the New Mass, was to reform the Catholic liturgy in such a way that it should almost coincide with the protestant liturgy. There was with Paul VI an ecumenical intention to remove, or, at least to correct, or, at least to relax, what was too Catholic in the traditional sense in the Mass and, I repeat, to get the Catholic mass closer to the Calvinist Mass.“ “Rama Coomeraswamy, The Problems with the New Mass, Tan Books, p. 34”

[@catholicguy3605]

This is a dodge.

[@cordaserratapando907]

Guy on the phone said traditional Latin Mass community and then the host changed it to sedevacantist? As there are many traditionalists that are in full communion with the Catholic Church that believe that the new Mass has in many ways been mislead from the Latin Mass and canon law but at the same time still believe in the Pope and the church as there are many different valid sects of the catholic church? Must have a problem with traditionalists as he relishes in the novus ordo

[@michaelpryor78]

The guy obviously ended up at a schismatic/sedevacantist community that was utilizing the TLM, and he mistakingly conflated it with others that are in full communion with the Church, such as FSSP. Jimmy might have taken a second to point out this distinction instead of just jumping into the meat of the question, but him not doing so is hardly evidence that he has a "problem" with traditionalists.

[@Lucas-ny2no]

"I know what I'm talking about" is the ultimate sign of argumentative defeat. It is as if he had said "I don't have the arguments to dispute what you are saying so I will pretend to know more than you." Disgusting.

[@CadillacBunner]

TBH, he goes on to explain his thinking. This is just a scholarly way of talking. You wouldn't say "Well, uh, I think, um, I might know the answer to this but, um..." I think he has a right to say, "I know what I'm talking about (and you don't). It's just talking. Always avoid the passive voice in communication.

[@ScreamingReel500]

He explained the authority that you rejected. Seems like you are the one that can't accept your own delusion and rejected what the Lord said to Peter. You guys so angry that you can even read the reference to the Bible he gave you. Is that is really fitting to call yourself a Catholic?

[@juliang3995]

1972: “We have the impression that through some cracks in the wall the smoke of Satan has entered the temple of God: it is doubt, uncertainty, questioning, dissatisfaction, confrontation. … We thought that after the Council a day of sunshine would have dawned for the history of the Church. What dawned, instead, was a day of clouds and storms, of darkness, of searching and uncertainties.”

[@Flagrum3]

@Julian G - That statement was made by Paul VI who was most definitely an anti-pope. With those words he mocked all Catholics for their blindness, as he was instrumental in the 'allowing' of the smoke of satan into the church. He propagated the Vatican II counsel, changed the mass to be basically protestant. He changed the wordings for consecrations, of the sacraments to make them useless.

[@edwardcho_94]

I have not so much bright understanding of this movement though, they frankly offend me greatly. They seem to be group of people who didn’t love the changes. Yes. Languages and some minor methods were changed. But Holy Eucharist stands still. It’s it. So since mid 20th century, all the sacraments have been invalid? They didn’t like some things then they started to question the very authority of the Church. The authenticity of the church Jesus founded himself. As a Korean Catholic I only speak Korean and English, but not Latin. Do I have to be Latin-spoken to be saved?

[@edwardcho_94]

@@PirateHeadcrab Maybe gentleman, it is so. or I am just selfish and ignorant. But I go to church every weekend most importantly for my own soul’s salvation ; Doesn’t necessarily mean that I do not pray for souls in purgatory or so many miserables souls that face such horrible fate, probably including myself. I love God. I love Jesus. I love Holy Catholic church. Thank you

[@ScreamingReel500]

You should learn the current Catechism (there are videos teaching these by Fr. Corapi). And you will see clearly what the Church teach. The current Catechism has no error, heresy or self-contradict (Everything will become crystal clear after you learned it). This talk related to #83, Sacred Traditions and ecclesial tradition. May God bless you.

[@nyktal]

...and on another episode of Protestant Answers.

[@KristiLEvans1]

Sedevacantism is the only logical conclusion. Vatican II being magisterium is silly - it makes the RCC a wholly different religion. The Popes after Pius XII headed up another religious order, entirely.

[@ScreamingReel500]

Do you believe in sedevacantist, and not Jesus's promise?

[@francisoconner3596]

@@ScreamingReel500 What do you mean by Jesus Christ promise?

[@francisoconner3596]

@@ScreamingReel500 I say out of love and charity for you and your soul that this blog is not correct. Paul VI had six protestant ministers developed a new mass, he also told a very close friend of his that he was going to Protestantise the Catholic Church. The six protestant ministers who helped design the New Mass were: Doctors George, Jasper Shepherd, Kunneth, Smith and Thurman. When the New Mass came out in 1969, Cardinals Ottaviani, Bacci, and some other theologians wrote to Paul VI about it. Keep in mind that what they said about the New Mass concerns the Latin version, the so-called “most pure” version of the new mass. Their study is popularly, known as the Ottaviani Intervention. It states: “The Novus Ordo (the New Mass) represents, both as a whole and in its details, a striking departure from the Catholic theology of the Mass as it was formulated in Session 22 of the Council of Trent.” “The Ottaviani Intervention, Rockford, IL: Tan Books” They could clearly see that the Latin version of the New Mass was a striking departure from the teachings of the Council of Trent. Of the twelve offertory prayers in the Traditional Mass, only two are retained in the New Mass. The deleted offertory prayers are the same ones that the protestant heretics Martin Luther and Thomas Cranmer eliminated. The New Mass was promulgated by Paul VI, with the help of six protestant ministers. Paul VI even admitted to his good friend Jean Guitton that his intention in changing the Mass was to make it protestant. Jean Guitton wrote: “the intention of pope Paul VI with regard to what is commonly called the New Mass, was to reform the Catholic liturgy in such a way that it should almost coincide with the protestant liturgy. There was with Paul VI an ecumenical intention to remove, or, at least to correct, or, at least to relax, what was too Catholic in the traditional sense in the Mass and, I repeat, to get the Catholic mass closer to the Calvinist Mass.“ “Rama Coomeraswamy, The Problems with the New Mass, Tan Books, p. 34”

[@survivingchicago5797]

Should be called “Protestant answers”

[@andreassforza]

I came here for a reason to not turn sede but you guys made a terrible job Jesus in Heaven

[@nicoleesteban669]

I disagree ! Sedevacantism is right about John Paul teaching heresy that’s is ok for other cultures and religion like Judaism not to convert they could still be save , and against Roman Catholic faith He is a false teacher

[@Flagrum3]

@Nicole - Very good point. Its clear to true Catholics John Paul II was an anti-pope and most likely the Anti-Christ. What other pope could one equate to this passage; Rev 13.3 'One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast.' I can only think of one and that is JP2.

[@Userius1]

The worst part is that as he was a Pole, us other Poles feltthe need to support him unconditionally, even when he messed up big time.

[@Annedowntherabbithole]

I don't see the point in sedevacantism.

[@annoymous96]

There is nothing false about it as it the same as the catholic church without the pope or Vatican 2.

[@galileovenica6449]

I think Sedevacantist fail to differienciate what the church does and what the church teaches. The church is composed by sinners, they are going to sin. The church is not going to infalably teach us to sin. That's it. Did you know we had a pope that denied christ not one but three times? His name was Peter, that was not a reason to abandon church then and it will not be a reason even if it happens now

[@waseemhermiz7565]

Actually he wasn't the pope yet so your argument fails. Jesus said "I will give you the keys." Then after he resurrected he asked Peter three times if he loved him. The LORD then gave him the keys by saying tend to my sheep

[@notaholyjoebutworkingonit]

I can only give this video 1 thumbs up but it deserves 100!

[@francisoconner3596]

Why? These guys are protestants and are teaching a false religion from Rome. The Catholic Church is alive and well, but it is a Remnant.

[@RedWolf5]

Lame answer from Jimmy at the end, the caller raised a good question and he just blew him off and didn’t wanna go there… the same cookie cutter answer we always get.

[@waseemhermiz7565]

What a garbage answer and he knows it.

[@jordanreichenbacher8268]

These arguments have been directly addressed by prominent Sedavacantists. Why don't you challenge some of these Sedavacantists directly in a debate?

[@RGTomoenage11]

He probably meant Lutherans and anglicans...

[@Leocomander]

Weird... I also got into a discussion with a Sedevacantist in Chicago...

[@Catindahatt-SLZ]

Sedes are everywhere, unfortunately. Wolves in sheep's clothing.

[@Flagrum3]

@polishmehappy- The wolves in sheep's clothing are those who purport to be Catholics and following the Vatican II counterfeit church and its anti-popes. Jimmy Akin is a heretic and a apostate. His heart is so darkened he doesn't see the truth. (The Church has not fallen, it still exists in true Catholics who follow the traditional church and magisterium, < This is Sedevacantism. )... Magisterium states clearly a heretic cannot be in the Church and therefore a heretic cannot be Pope. All those who claimed to sit in the See of Peter since John XXIII have been heretics, therefore not catholic and definitely not Popes, but anti-popes,

[@Catindahatt-SLZ]

@@Flagrum3 well it sounds like you know everything about the church, sounds like you are absolutely sure in your faith- counterfeit or not. Since that is the case, best of luck to you, and God bless you. It is the duty of all catholics to pray for all souls to go to heaven, especially those in most need of God's mercy. I'm a practicing Roman Catholic, I pray for our Church and our Pope. That's my choice. The Church has seen movements like yours before, it's nothing new. Good luck to you and God bless.

[@Flagrum3]

@polishmehappy- If you follow Bergoglio or any of those purporting to be popes since Vatican II, you are not a Catholic. There is no pope at the moment so you are praying for a demon in praying for Bergoglio. Your choice will lead you not to salvation. There has never been a situation such as we see today facing true Catholics. You can pray all you like but few will go to heaven as they are blind and of darkened hearts, much like all those at Catholic Answers, who are not Catholic. I urge you to look into this much deeper for the sake of your soul and the souls of those around you. I say this in charity. God Bless.

[@Catindahatt-SLZ]

@@Flagrum3 here it is for all to see! Sedevacantists are the new protestants. Real catholics, sir, are very aware of this new religion of yours. Call our pope and our church every horrible name you want, separate catholics from our magistrate and the eucharist all you want, scream and holler all you want! You are still a heretic and a schismatic ! If you think Catholic Answers channel isn't CATHOLIC then take your own brand of catholicism else where! Go build your own church, build your own pope! kzbin.info/www/bejne/b2OrqYmFqdaGZ5I

[@Catindahatt-SLZ]

@@Flagrum3 kzbin.info/www/bejne/b2OrqYmFqdaGZ5I I LOVE our pope! Canon law 205 - you are schimastic sir. The day of excommunication will come for you and your horde. Even protestants are braver than you, at least they don't pretend to be Catholics in order to confuse Christians all over the place. PRIDE is your downfall... no apologies!

[@stevecinneide8183]

I'm not SV but the number of fallacies in his response is amazing. A SV could just say that the SSPX was guided by the Holy Spirit and there would be no empirical way for the Roman Church to refute that.

[@rbaffi]

This was a poor explanation of what Sede vacantism is.

[@Dwijhaixuj]

Archbishop lefebvre protested.

[@marmosetfreund8506]

Jimmy Akin, is packed full of lies, my goodness. Such dishonesty came out of this show.

[@morelmaster]

Don't just accuse, explain please?

[@marthawissmann8268]

The speaker stated that the Protestant Churches are not like the Catholic Church. Ok. There are many different Protestant churches. My understanding also that Luthers objections to the Roman Church in his 95 Thesis no longer exist in today’s Church. We have changed and I think it’s for the better.

[@BritishPatriot662-4]

before Martin Luther passed away he confessed he got it wrong it is in his diary

[@menottodasilva354]

The See is Vacant

[@gspike7478]

Pope pius 10 would tell this creek to get a haircut they have the premises we have the faith

[@lincolncity9]

Did Jesus have long hair?

[@michelefoster2879]

Think outside of the 'BOOK'.

[@alb1332]

sedevacantist position is the only catholic position others are wrong.

[@etherealcatholic5711]

Sedevacantist chapels keep the true faith alive.

[@luisrverasuarez6611]

They do not

[@starlightmaster35X]

Absolutely not. They are heretics

[@superior9980]

DAdude Strangely enough, Francis thinks that those 'heretics' are in the Church of Christ and don't need conversion like what he thinks with protestants. He thus believes that we have the true faith. You don't have a clue what your talking about. Please visit mostholyfamilymonastery.com for critical information on how to save your soul.

[@alexyoyo5830]

Faith and Morals ayyyyy sedevacantist fam

[@deegobenwick1827]

They do

[@avemaria4788]

It is false because it is wrong

[@marleypax]

Akin's answers are never any good.

[@BuckDanny2314]

That's some great work !

[@damiendavis.ezekiel5697]

U people are very sick, very.

[@louismorton7341]

Come to Anglicanism, brother. I think you'll find our Anglo-Catholic, Traditional Latin Mass most satisfactory!!

[@louismorton7341]

@Tango Mike Your anti-pope believes non-Christians can be saved so......Go to vaticancatholic.com KZbin channel for absolute proof of Sedevacantism!!