Why Sly Cooper Thieves In Time is CANON - Why Do I Even...

Sly Cooper Thieves In Time, the FOURTH entry in the Sly series, is very much a mixed bag of opinions. Some loved Sly 4, some liked it and others… not so much. There seems to be this canonicity debate going on lately, people thinking this game shouldn’t exist…. Well technically, this game is considered canon. Let me clarify in this video, if I’m capable.
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IGN Livestream 2012:
• Sly Cooper: Thieves in...
Sly 4 Infamous easter eggs:
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#FreeSlyFromEgypt #Sly5ForPS5

[@thesymbiotenation.4552]

We would have loved a Henriette "One eye" Cooper story line in Thieves in Time...

[@VtnVivi]

I know :O Mat Kraemer said if they had more time, they would've included more ancestors!

[@thesymbiotenation.4552]

@@VtnVivi true...

[@puffythedestroyer8878]

@@VtnVivi would have loved her. (imagine, having some more pirate battles like 3)

[@MsBrendalina]

I'm GLAD Sanzaru didn't include her! Those weirdos at Sanzaru would have dressed her like a stripper and made her into a worthless damsel in distress just like they did with Carmelita!

[@thesymbiotenation.4552]

@@MsBrendalina Henriette is one of Sly's ancestors, she would have probably been that at the beginning but then she would have been a badass when she became playable...

[@tresheppard8942]

To be honest, I really think that Sly Cooper 4: Thieves in Time is absolutely canon. Because Thieves in Time does take place after the events of Sly Cooper Trilogy, and Thieves in Time will be taken place before the events of Sly Cooper 5 which is I am really hoping so it will continue the story that I really, REALLY want Sly to be freed from Ancient Egypt in Sly Cooper 5 SO badly for passed 8 years!

[@jubbernaut2054]

I never thought about the whole newcomer thing for sly 4, that makes sense. Plus it makes sense for it to be with time travel because just like you said, Bentley probably started with making a time machine that may go into the future, but once the thievius racoonus was in trouble he knew he had to use the time machine to go back in time. It all makes sense to me. While it might not be the best game, it is at least practical

[@VtnVivi]

Thanks for watching!

[@ashterrifictales7317]

I agree to the fact that just because you don’t like the game doesn’t mean it’s officially considered non-cannon... I’ll be honest, it’s my least favorite in the series for sure. But that doesn’t mean I hate it. Basically if they improved on how they wrote the original characters (Sly, Murray, Carmelita, and Penelope {Bentley wasn’t THAT bad tbh}), the game would’ve been so much better. The storyline and idea is great, getting to play as the ancestors is great, etc. But there are still so many moments that don’t feel right due to the characters’ actions. Like Murray being depressed a whole level because he couldn’t climb ice was stupid. Sly seemed to be way too overconfident and was never serious. Carmelita idk how to explain but something just always feels off but I could never tell what. And, well, do I even need to get into Penelope...? Haha. And another quality that could’ve been fixed was Le Paradox’s poor character. All previous final bosses were intimidating. He just seemed weak and stupid... As Sly says, he just had his “friends” do all the real work. Like, what did he even do in the situation besides give orders? As said, the storyline and idea is great! They just needed to improve on the characters. Basically the ancestors were the only ones who were written well! (Again, I don’t hate the game! I’m just throwing out what I felt needed to be improved!)

[@VtnVivi]

Thanks for sharing!

[@playerback7722]

Thank you. I was thinking the same thing

[@tylerhouston69]

Sony: Ok so do we continue this game or reboot with an "HD REMAKE" like all those other PS1 mascots got. Fanbase: Sly 4 isn't canon. Sony: ok Sly 1 reboot it is. Fanbase: Why is sly a panda now. Sony: He's a trash panda. Fanbase: Not buying it. Sony: i guess sly belongs in the trash

[@MrRPGTHEBEST]

@Sir Galahad Agreed. The problem is that these terms are easily mistaken by people. For example many people say God of War 2018 is a remake when it is a sequel. I think we should start using the term revival instead for these kind of games.

[@MrRPGTHEBEST]

@Sir Galahad I agree, that's why I've never really liked the fact that many reboots or revivals have the exact same name as the original. It's confusing, especially when talking about the original games. The fact the I've had to say "God of War 2018" is a clear example

[@tylerhouston69]

@Sir Galahad/videos You do realize those are interchangeable right? "HD remake" can mean literally anything depending on the marketing. Also a from the ground up remake of the games would be a reboot even if they told the exact same story because it's resetting the franchise with a new slate of games. Reboot's don't always ignore the past franchise, sometimes they're the same story told over again. See the Crash+Spyro remakes which are reboots.

[@MrRPGTHEBEST]

@@tylerhouston69 Many "reboots" do not ignore the past story, but that's because the word is misused there. Theoretically a reboot should be a new fresh start without the constraints imposed by previous entries. In my opinion, we should use the word "revivial" for new sequels that follow the same cannon that come when a franchise is revived after being dormant for a long period of time. For example, God Of War 2018

[@whitebeardfanboy4692]

People are too hard on this game. Honestly I love it. It isn't as good as 2 and 3 for certain but I thought it was pretty great. I need my Sly 5.

[@VtnVivi]

2 & 4 come in pretty close for me!

[@richenrd]

@@VtnVivi kzbin.info/www/bejne/b6WxYmd-qdOJbrc I think this idea by Savo Central could really bring Sly back

[@jackbartholomaus6510]

@@VtnVivi Do you wish that Sly Cooper Thieves In Time wasn't CANON?

[@VtnVivi]

@@jackbartholomaus6510 Now why would I think that :p It's not like Sly 4 is unbearable.

[@jackbartholomaus6510]

@@VtnVivi I just don't like the thought of him stuck in Ancient Egypt, don't you agree?

[@HelloKittySGTC]

Personally, I annually go back and play Sly 2 & 3 every year. As they provide some uniqueness to the Sly universe only those games could capture. And any developers trying to work on a new addition would struggle to reintroduce this uniqueness while not making it a carbon copy. Also there's an experience only consoles of that decade could capture and maintain.

[@Nortetradamus]

I played all three on ps2 and PS3 loved the remasters, I enjoyed thieves in time but the things that threw me off were the animation for cut scenes, it seemed more childish and jokes aimed at a younger crowd but I enjoyed the worlds and game play. Time travel doesn't ruin it for me, between this and kh, I'm not bothered. I just feel sly went from being a smooth cool thief to trying hard to make jokes, idk how else to describe it

[@VtnVivi]

Sly 4 went with a comedic approach confirmed actually! I'll talk more about it eventually. Thanks for watching.

[@Nortetradamus]

@@VtnVivi not even just humor in general, it was slap stick humor which was just not the right attitude of the sky gang. Even the movie trailer it's all great and amazing except for how murry is acting about the donuts like idk I hope they wouldn't go down that path because the trilogy was cool slick and still funny but not like thieves in time. I would love for more sly, even if the story is meh, I still love his platforming and the game play of all 4 games

[@CoffeeSuccubus]

Man, I wanted MORE from Sly 4! I wanted some Henrietta Cooper action! Badass pirate woman ancestor who would of CLICKED with Sly! She would probably be his favorite ancestor since he did said he took a lot from her when he was in the Cooper Vault at her portrait. I think also, it would be a neat idea the first levels of the episode focuses on freeing her crew members from a rock island prison using a jailbird disguise, them the second part, on her ship, with her crew and the gang + Carmellita, probably hearing stories of Clockwerk since she was the first ancestor to have reported sightings of him. Who knows, maybe we can have a boss fight against him or something? Who knows. But of course, going after La Paradoxs Lieutenant... Or even better, this could be like after we stop him, and find Clockwerk facing him again. No clue. But a lack of a Henrietta arc is what I have a complaint about this game. Penelope too, but that's pretty much it.

[@VtnVivi]

If only :O

[@ZainabJalal-y5v]

Coffee Succubus this is actually the coolest comment

[@MsBrendalina]

An Henriette Cooper level in TiT would have been awful! You saw what Sanzaru did to Carmelita. If they tried to tackle Henriette, they would have just dressed her like a prostitute and had her spend half the level doing stripper pole mini-games to distract guards or whatever. Sanzaru couldn't be bothered to show Carmelita an ounce of respect despite the fact that she was the main love interest (and a fierce badass in previous games). So why the hell would they care about making Henriette anything more than a worthless fetish object for the player to get off on?

[@coreyconley8267]

@@MsBrendalina you sound like a femenazi the one "heinous" thing they did was give her a small belly dance scene.

[@MsBrendalina]

@@coreyconley8267 """you sound like a femenazi """ And you sound like a basement dwelling incel. Also, I'm a registered Republican. So the insult doesn't hold water. But nice try. LOL """ the one "heinous" thing they did was give her a small belly dance scene."""" And that "one scene" was fucking gross and terrible. Not just because it painted Carmelita as a worthless sex object. But also because it painted Sly and Bentley as creepy horndogs who are willing to degrade & humiliate a member of their team like that just to get their rocks off. Sly went from being a honorable character to being a jackass who gets off on treating his supposed love interest like crap. Being opposed to that kind of character assassination doesn't make someone a "feminazi" (just as opposing the running gag where Carmelita flirts with Sly's ancestors doesn't make someone a "slut-shaming misogynist") Also, a scene like that has no place in a talking animal game aimed at kids. Just sayin'

[@deadlyjeff9106]

1:33 you have now been enlightened

[@anthonywoertz8762]

I don’t know why people don’t think it’s part of the main timeline , the game is fun but I won’t say it’s my favorite but I won’t say it’s horrible either it’s great if you ask me

[@VtnVivi]

I guess it has to do with how they simply dislike the game.

[@FoxyGuyHere]

Watch videos about it. Sly 4 breaks canon in so many ways that it can't be canon.

[@anthonywoertz8762]

curryvid a lot of other games do that but ok it’s not like it has a huge impact

[@FoxyGuyHere]

@@anthonywoertz8762 But not other Sly games. Only this one.

[@richenrd]

@@VtnVivi it has to do with how much Sanzaru shit on the legacy of these characters and there so much attention to detail that simply isn't present. Everything feels off besides the music and most of the gameplay. The rhythm sections are embarrassing to play through and Murray's dreamtime powers are gone. It feels like a fucking parody

[@crashslysonic777]

"Oh wait a minute. This is called Sly 4, a game on the PlayStation 3? I haven't played the previous games so **nO bUy FoR mE**"

[@Gamerlord17]

They say they cared about the canon yet completely ignore entire sections of the lore and change shit and retcon shit for the sake of retconning. There's a reason why people don't like to consider thieves in time canon cause close to nothing makes any sense without a lot of contrivance and convenience. But yet we are just supposed to accept it cause Sony approved? Yeah sorry not buying it. I wanted to love this game so damn bad and in the end I just ended up hating it the more I thought about it and played it and I hate the fact that it's like that cause of course I don't wanna hate Sly. He's my favorite game character but to see what they reduced him too was... depressing to say the least.

[@VtnVivi]

I understand.

[@ZainabJalal-y5v]

I hated the game without even playing it just from the media and bad reviews... and then I just got too desperate for a Sly game and ended up buying and honestly its not as bad as I expected it to be there were some weak points and I also wish they would just say its a reboot and not a continuation of the sequel because of the ending but I like it ... However, I still say that If they had left Sly 3 the way it is it wouldve been a lot better ... open ending, Sly and Carmelita in a relationship with the possibility of Sly rejoining the gang and overall everybody got a happy ending. A lot was just left to each individuals imagination ...

[@Gamerlord17]

@@ZainabJalal-y5v I'm the type of guy who hates leaving a story unfinished Sly as a franchise has so much untapped potential it's ridiculous that they dropped the ball on so many different things. 🙄😒🤷

[@jackster9775]

Hyped-Up-GameBoy the ancestors fixed all they could so the gang would be ok

[@Gamerlord17]

@@jackster9775 which makes no sense and the timeline should be full of paradoxes but because Bentley said it was corrected we are supposed to believe that which is bullshit and not how time travel works

[@sirmixalot38]

The reason I've heard why Sly: Thieves In Time is non-canon with some people is due to the fact that Clockwerk appears in all the worlds fully metallic, therefore that ruins the canonicity as well as some of the clockwerk parts: the metal claw that holds the pearl with the inscription that says: CLOCKWERK WAS HERE, & then the clockwerk eye in Grizz's level. For others, it's the fact that the Guru & The Panda King are never mentioned in the game, as well as Murry not having his spiritual orb power up.

[@yousefhussain2629]

Also how Salim came before Sir Cooper in thieves in time while it was the other way around in cooper vault in 3

[@sirmixalot38]

@@yousefhussain2629 that too

[@VtnVivi]

Well those were mere easter eggs.

[@quantumchill5237]

@@VtnVivi lousy Easter eggs in that case

[@starspangledcourt]

People ignore the fact that clockwork can time travel

[@awesomemike1500]

They didn’t do a good job of keeping the continuity/personalities... like Sly was too quippy, and Carmelita almost never got captured and put up a fight in it when she was captured. You also look at the vault Galleth was before Alcaparra where in the time line in sly 4 he took place after. It doesn’t make sense... it’s “Sly 4” but it’s not really Sly 4. It’s a fun game but I wouldn’t call it a true Sly 4.

[@slycooper4506]

I got a question why the hell did I end up in Egypt in the first place why couldn't I go somewhere like the future? Flying cars, robots, space travel, internet-connected contact lenses...WHY!?!

[@VtnVivi]

Or Burger King.

[@slycooper4506]

@@VtnVivi oh my God yes... a double chili cheeseburger with onions and pickles😭

[@chrisblum2844]

I’ve always found it disappointing how Sly fans “hated” Sly 4. What was so bad about it? A tad too corny? Long loading times? I can understand that. But the game was great! Let’s be honest, usually Sly 1 is everyone’s least favorite game in the series. There’s no way most people would take 1 over 4 right? Sanzaru made sly 4 feel just like 2 and 3 but with their own style. It felt a bit different but it was cool and more realistic looking. Sly 4 was a great start to whatever potential Sanzaru had. Sly fans should’ve backed them up more

[@FoxyGuyHere]

It's terrible. But that's not the point. Sly 4 breaks canon in way too many ways to be canon.

[@darklordmaguire207]

It's a lot to do with the story

[@MrRPGTHEBEST]

I personally prefer Sly 1 to 4

[@chrisblum2844]

I thought the story was well-written. Penelope turning on the gang was awesome. A game needs a point where it’s shocking and crazy and nobody can believe it. I feel like that’s something Penelope would do tbh. I also remember being a kid playing sly 1 and sly 3 in the vault and just wanting to meet these ancestors. Sanzaru brought that to reality and I think they did a good job. The cliffhanger sure sucks but the game really isn’t that bad

[@VongolaXZax]

@@chrisblum2844 totally agree with you dude

[@theace8502]

While sly 4 is indeed my least favorite title in the series, I have never doubted its canonicity. Thats just absurd. TGX and j's reviews are always ripping into it, and seemingly never give it praise or anything. And J's reviews always, ALWAYS takes jabs at the game whenever he can, even when it's unrelated

[@VtnVivi]

Thanks for sharing!

[@gameman5804]

J’s Reviews has good points, but that dude is stuck in the 2000’s. I miss that time period As much as the next guy, but come on.

[@puffythedestroyer8878]

Good, introspective, and down to earth video Vivi. just because a game might have a few weak points in some spots, doesn't make it a "code red" full lockdown and reset threat. it's ok to not like something, and have your own reasons as to why. it's ok, it's your opinion, everyone has their rights to their views. But, i absolutely detest it when fanbases do that selfish mob mentality of: "I didn't like it, therefor NOBODY should consider it canon", & the "only (insert developer here) should be allowed to make these" bullshit, because they often do it over trivial or biased reasons, or it's from a conflicting point logic that comes souly from how their own mindset... and aggressively or condescendingly try to force it on to everyone else - ("and if you don't agree, then you're just blind, stupid, and aren't a true fan"). I grew immensely tired of that with crash bandicoot's bad side, and so i wont pay it much mind with the sly cooper community's unpleasant minorities. (continued.) (Sorry for sounding all pessimistic about how needlessly complex this topic had become, but at least others are being down to earth about this like you). - plus, These types of minorities in fanbases usually find something new to complain and mob about as "the death of a series", even if ya try to give em what they want. some people where even like that with N.Sane trilogy and Reignited trilogy.

[@-xxphantomsnipsxx-9106]

My beef now though with this series is: I can't play or purchase any of these games on ps4 without having to use PSnow....cause if I could I would totaly repurchase these games to play on ps4 but Sony just doesn't want my money I guess...

[@michaellynes3540]

Sly Cooper Thieves in Time is canon. In the end of Sly 3: Honor Among Thieves, Bentley wrote in the Thievieus Racconus that he plans on building a time machine, which he did in Thieves in Time.

[@darrylreedy5079]

A time machine to do what? To see what’s going to happen to the gang? Sanzaru messed this game up big time.

[@michaellynes3540]

Bentley probably wanted to learn more about Sly’s ancestors

[@andretheartist99]

Yeah except in Sly 3 the machine was build to go FORWARD. Sly 4 writers goofed that one up enough to give credence to the non canon folks.

[@darrylreedy5079]

André The Artist Facts! They really messed it up with this cliffhanger. The fact they didn’t come out with at least a DLC is even worse.

[@ghostyoda7379]

Yo be fair, Bentley had built the time machine BEFORE the events of Thieves in Time. It was recent that he finished it, it was recent that Penelope had vanished with no clue of her, and it was recent what was happening to the Thievious Raccoonus

[@seanreviews6054]

Ngl yesterday I watched Js video on why sly 4 takes place in an alternate universe but I agree with you sense is it obvious this was meant to be a sequel to the original trilogy

[@VtnVivi]

Thanks for understanding!

[@R1CON]

Cant be the only one who wanted to know more about the history of coopers since the first game and I feel that Sly 4 (and some lore videos) did their job. While it wasnt the best game I still accept it as part of the franchise and have no hate towards the game.

[@VtnVivi]

thanks for sharing your take on it!

[@Darkmanewanderer]

So glad to have confirmation in this video that Sanzaru did indeed just make a prototype/demo for Suckerpunch/Sony. Been looking for confirmation on that forever as it is the basis for my whole plan to follow in their footsteps. No petitions and no asking or begging for a new game, just going out and making it myself after getting permission from the two bosses that own the series. So again, thank you so much for confirming this for me.

[@VtnVivi]

No problem!

[@orangexlightning]

"I dislike this therefore it's none canon" There are people who actually think this? Yikes...

[@VtnVivi]

A lot actually.

[@orangexlightning]

@@VtnVivi I mean I'd understand that mentality for The Lost Frontier...😅 But like wow.

[@snubcaboose132]

How about when it comes to the Star Wars sequels?

[@quantumchill5237]

Actually it's non-canon because the plot is incoherent as hell and the characters are caricatures of their former selves. Doesn't make the game better or worse, and conversely, the quality of the game has no bearing on the canonicity.

[@dislikebomb6680]

@@snubcaboose132 In terms of business, it's canon. Lucasfilm plans to continue the story from there

[@davidkropinak6261]

Am I the only one who doesn't care if its canon or not. I enjoyed it when it first came out. Hell, it's the reason I got a ps3. Just imagine if the movie or show got released. Would those be canon or not?

[@VtnVivi]

Movie or TV show would be its own separate canon aka its own universe.

[@MovieMadness23]

Thank you for saying this, since I’ve been seeing a lot of videos lately saying that the game isn’t canon and I just don’t believe yes there are aspects of the game that I feel could of been improved like the Penelope twist and some of the gameplay mechanics but other than that I had a blast with this game i think it’s a lot of fun, and to those people who say that Sly feels out of character well you gotta remember that Sly’s always been a sarcastic character he’s always made jokes even going back to the first game, so personally when it comes to the main characters I think the writing is pretty spot on and I love it, also you can tell that this wasn’t just made to cash in on the series a lot heart and effort went in to making this and I could not have been happier with the result it feels like a love letter to the series and I think that’s great.

[@VtnVivi]

Thanks for sharing your take!

[@VongolaXZax]

Wow, that's a really great way of saying that about 4. Same here, it was and still is for me a blast.

[@rudyyhh]

These Sly Cooper videos are very interesting and I just learned a new word canon

[@VtnVivi]

There you go :D

[@ShadowDeathBlade93]

I enjoyed the entire series & I agree with you Vivi all the way of it being canon. Every one has an opinion. #FreeSlyFromEgypt #Sly5forPS5

[@VtnVivi]

Thanks for understanding!

[@ShadowDeathBlade93]

@@VtnVivi hey you're welcome man

[@bconn6406]

2:21 idk what it was but when I saw the Sly 2 cover something hit me and it was just awesome thinking back of how great that game was. The story line the game play just awesome

[@VtnVivi]

I understand :)

[@colleenglanville8293]

I feel like that if a character has a bad writing it doesn't exactly mean that it isn't canon...if the people who made the game says it's canon, then it's canon...I have nothing against your opinion Vivi, it's great that you are opening up about this! 😄😁👍

[@VtnVivi]

Thanks for understanding Colleen!

[@colleenglanville8293]

VTNVIVI You're very welcome Vivi! 😊😄😁👍

[@VongolaXZax]

Hearing you say hopefully 12:46 made me chuckle for some reason😂, and yeah, most likely the next studio that Sony thinks can handle Sly, will take note from the first 3, and go back to that, by that I mean the setting of the story but different, but also not ignoring Sly 4. I just gotta know what is Penelope up to. 🤔

[@baileynelson9048]

One of the things I didn't like was Penelope being a villain, I felt her reasoning wasn't that strong.

[@VtnVivi]

And I fully get ya! I didn't hate the idea, it just needed more background.

[@baileynelson9048]

@@VtnVivi The game wasn't that bad, but I feel it could of been better, ya know what I mean?

[@teamtx1578]

I just didn't really like how they handled the characters in general, especially Sly. In the Sucker Punch trilogy, Sly was a suave, charming, badass character who, despite being a thief, was compassionate and had a good heart. In Thieves in Time, he kinda comes off as a douchebag.

[@baileynelson9048]

@@teamtx1578 He did seem to be more arrogant at times.

[@Hydra298]

I some how understand why some people hate sly 4 but i still like sly 4 expecially storyline and i have played all sly coopers 1-4 but there is also different between 1 and 2 bc they are different from each other like 3 and 4 are too every sly is different... people should already know that

[@lexusdriver1963]

To be honest the ending of Sly 4 Thieves in Time is so depressing because it feels like you didn't accomplish anything. I mean sure you defeated Le Paradox he's arrested and sentenced to life imprisonment without parole and you got all the ancestors' canes back but Sly's gone, he's stranded in Ancient Egypt and will never get to open up with his girlfriend Carmelita and live a life with her. Bentley and Murray are very heart-stricken because they have to accept the inevitable that Sly's gone and Bentley will never get to continue his relationship with Penelope again. Le Paradox has left a severe damage to the Cooper Gang which was getting Penelope to work for him and thus was indirectly responsible for destroying Bentley's relationship. I feel like this ending the villain won but doesn't know that he won. But you know when I saw the part where Penelope is revealed to be working for Le Paradox I wanted to kill Le Paradox so badly like my levels to kill Le Paradox went through the roof and off the charts.

[@VtnVivi]

:(

[@lexusdriver1963]

@@VtnVivi Yeah thanks for the sad face. Sly Cooper 4 Thieves in Time, the ending is so depressing and I would say the damage Le Paradox has done to the Cooper Gang is more severe than Clockwerk.

[@Evillustrations]

VTNVIVI this content is such a breath of fresh air because I have encountered so much unnecessary hatred regarding Thieves in Time. It is flawed and not perfect but that doesn't warrant being called 'not canon'. I have read HCs trying to erase Thieves in Time such as Sly being under hypnosis from The Contessa in Sly 2, therefore, making Sly 3 and TiT just Sly's delusion. Thank you so much for uploading this video. I am grateful for it.

[@VtnVivi]

I'm happy you understand :D

[@Megumi_Bandicoot]

If only the word “Canon” never existed.

[@sonicroachdoggjrraven3263]

I wish.

[@ghostyoda7379]

You're everywhere

[@quantumchill5237]

If only there were never any alternate timelines in anything.

[@NotOrdinaryInGames]

The "we don't want to do a Crystal Skull" comment was awful though. I know what they were trying to say, but.............. Indiana Jones 4 was hated NOT because it contradicted past events or made Indy "act out of character"; it was hated because the movie went into a direction many fans did not like. JUST LIKE WITH SLY 4.

[@BrennySpain]

So with what we said earlier about how we probably won’t get a MediEvil 2 remake anytime soon, if the new remake of the first game we got last year is all we get I’m okay with it. Having the ps1 original being unlockable after getting all the lost souls is more then beyond fitting I think...

[@BugsyFoga]

With some of things that happen its definitely not canon in my book

[@VtnVivi]

And I respect that opinion.

[@Princess36621]

What things are you talking about?

[@BugsyFoga]

@@Princess36621 Well Penelope betrayal is definitely one that makes me believe this isn't canon , considering the fact that it didn't even start out that way

[@antitheist3206]

@@VtnVivi No, you don't. Your entire video is you bringing up tertiary reasons people have said regarding Thieves in Time and saying "well Sony said it is, so you're wrong". If your idea of "respecting an opinion" is to deliberately misconstrue your opposition, then you have a *VERY* skewed definition pal.

[@MoojinBoi]

@@antitheist3206 jesus christ dude it's just a guys opinion, lay off a little, sony said it's canon and the people behind it generally are the ones who get the say on canonicity

[@nicolewhite3157]

I've seen people bring up Clockwork being metallic in Bob's era I think the argument there is just kind of relying on taking a lousy continuity error that slipped through the cracks way too seriously

[@diegocid1515]

Seeing this video makes me think now Sly 4 was a behind the scenes prelude to the actual Sly 4 "untiltled" video game that we all need lol

[@TheIntimateAvenger]

I don’t get why people spout so much venom at this game. It’s not the best game, but it’s not that bad either. It’s an okay game.

[@dspace4514]

People want to say it isnt cannon due to many things that dont make sense and dont want to accept a game like this part of the story. Im going to go through each episode in order to explain better. *Prologue* Sly out of nowhere wants to steal again when in the last game he said he would throw it all away. And the only reason he got away with this behaviour was because of Le Paradox. Kind of ironic that Le Paradox hates Sly, but he was the one to save his relationship. *Old West* Sly says he was going to have to let the law catch him, but he surrendered himself at the end of Sly 2. You could just argue that they misinterpreted the words because there is a difference between surrendering and letting yourself get captured. The former is telling the law that you lost and have no means of escape or winning, while the latter can be used to give them a false sense of security. *Ice Age* You find out you have an ancestor even before your Egyptian one, which is the oldest one. While i wont deny the possibility, how did the Le Paradox know of an ancestor that not even Sly knew and wasnt mentioned anywhere in the Thievius Raccoonus? Oh and the fact that Clockwerk exists and is already a machine. Even if it was an Easter Egg, wouldnt have been better to give him fur? *England* Before we speak of Penelope, lets talk about the mission with the Moat Monster. There are two strange events in this. The first is when Bentley doesnt believe in the moat monster, saying its superstition nonsense. But in all of the previous games, there was at least one villain with supernatural powers or location with supernatural events. Sly 1 we had Miss Ruby and her voodoo. Sly 2 we had Contessa and ghosts where you actually captured them and released them on Neyla. Sly 3 we had the Mask of Dark Earth, the Guru, General Tsao and his goons with magic powers and a fucking dragon. Meaning, Bentley should have no problem believing Moat Monster is real. The second event is with Carmelita and Sly, where Sly is jealous of Carmelita helping his ancestors and he claims she doesnt have her back in any past jobs when literally every single final boss in the game is defeated with her help. Hell, she even saves his ass in Sly 3! Now to Penelope. We dont know how much time passed between 3 and 4, but it must have been a while for Penelope to betray everyone, claiming Sly has brainwashed Bentley and they could have made money selling weapons... While her betrayal is random, its a bit predictable considering she was able to host her own dogfights and lie to everyone with her disguise as the Black Baron. While she is used to lying, i find it strange her immediate interest in weapons. I would have understood if it was meant to help the world or something, but weapons is weird. And her hatred for Sly is even weirder considering in the last game, both her and Bentley respected Sly and she even had a little crush on him. She claims he was brainwashed by Sly with his Thief Honor nonsense like he was recently on the team when Bentley is one of the core members. What im trying to say is: Penelope betrayal makes sense and i see the connection with the last game, but at the same time, there are also some things that dont add up with the last game. *Arabia* The only thing i found odd in all of this is at the end. Sly claims he doesnt remember a time where he and his team never felt so defeated, but in Sly 2 they had all of their Clockwerk parts stolen, meaning all of their hard work was useless and they felt the pressure of failure. In Sly 4, they always lost at the end of each episode since they lost the canes, but in Sly 2 they actually succeded in their missions, making their loss more impactful, unlike in Sly 4 where the only thing different was Carmelita being kidnapped. The other think i want to mention is the characters. In comparison with the previous ones ,they seem different. Sly is more playful and only serious towards the finale and Murray seems to think a lot more of food and is apparently a crossdresser. Ben seems more impatient with Sly jokes than before and i already talked about Penelope. Even with all of this, i believe the game is cannon. I hope the E3 of this year tell us something. A remake of the three games, a port to the PS4 of the four games, a new trailer, Sly 5. Dont tease us with Easter eggs or a cosplay or something. Say its fate. Either the series is dead or is alive, not in a coma. P.S: I dont recall anything that doesnt make sense in Japan or the finale in comparison with the previous one, so thats why i didnt say anything about them

[@VtnVivi]

You sure did write a lot :) Thanks for sharing!

[@dspace4514]

@@VtnVivi i accidentaly canceled rather than posting it so i had to write this again. The original one had also a discussion about each character. My hands are shaking and sweaty from so much writing.

[@AnimeFreakLucky7]

I'll consider it cannon when we get our boy, Sly, out of Egypt and safe with his buddies! Until then, its a sour stain on the original trilogy. That's just how I honestly feel.

[@VtnVivi]

And I get ya!

[@skywalker617]

The gameplay was really fun just that the story and characters were really lacking and half of what makes sly games good is the story i still wouldnt consider it non canon it can still be fixed in a sequel its not like the sequel movies of star wars those cant be fixed

[@VtnVivi]

Thanks for sharing!

[@mitsunitaiko1742]

I'll never deny that it's canon but I'm still so mad. Sly 3 was a great ending to a perfect trilogy, and then they had to make a fourth game, that I don't like, and ends on some kind of cliffhanger

[@VtnVivi]

I understand ya!

[@nighthero_gaming9021]

Exactly! It had a good ending. Then they give as a fourth without one! If they continued the story after four. It wouldn't be an issue. It's the fact they never finished what they continued! Penelope was super stupid. Making her a villain was extremely dumb. And having sly stuck is also retarded. They fix those issues, then there would be no problem. In my mind, It's not canon for me until they make another. And since they clearly aren't going to. I'm not having this cannon for me. It's just a spin off game in my eyes.

[@mitsunitaiko1742]

@@nighthero_gaming9021 still, don't say something is "retarded" because it's bad

[@KrisFox5]

Also Sanzaru makes characters more doesn’t look like itself from the trilogies, but made it more like stereotypes or other things Murray - They made the character into a stereotype that he constantly eats or thinks about Food, in the trilogies he had charisma and his perfection in strength and the like Dimitri - They made him without a single dialogue at all, just a silent character making gestures during cutscenes like Mime. Trilogy didn't mind making jokes or speaking in his refined English. Carmelita - She still possibly Inspector fox from the trilogy but idk?? but so that she wears a skirt instead of pants and a bra instead of corset that makes her "Whore"😞 Also penelope she wrong character for villain in Sly 4 (She best and good character in Sly 3) When Sly gave the gang a vault with money and treasures there, we can essentially count about more than a Billion dollars Bentley and Penelope made good protection for the storage As a result, in Sly 4: She thinks that she could sell weapons for Billions with the help of her mind, together with Bentley, thinking that they could get rich this way The developers simply removed many canonical moments from Sly 3

[@brandonbuell9571]

I think Sly 4 is a great game. Is it as good as Sly 2 and 3? No. But that doesn’t matter. I would rather play Sly 4 than most other video games.

[@antodan123]

I love sly cooper with all of my heart this game series always brings me to a nice warm place and the characters are loveable and my favorite group of friends ever the gameplay is simple but fun and solid i just wish sly thieves in time did more with clockwerk and there was some odd inconsistent canon with clockwerk being metallic in some points in time when he shouldnt have been at all but its also kinda in the air how or when he became metallic like was it all in one shot or periodically and the whole Penelope being a villain when she had her story arc in the 3rd game it kinda removes the importance of her story arc. Now the gameplay of sly 4 was great tho to me it was a great recreation of the sucker punch platformer , the cliffhanger was horrible from a writing standpoint and the whole QTE thing at the end was disappointing. Its just that now that the dlc was cancelled its just heartbreaking

[@VtnVivi]

And I agree with your points! As for Clockwerk, I just thought he was mere easter egg.

[@andre.mateus]

This game is one of those cases where I'll never understand why people hated this game. It's so good, it's a great game!

[@ganumon1984]

Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time is Canon! In the beginning of Sly 4, Sly said he faked an amnesia which is that he faked an amnesia in Sly 3. Throughout Sly 4, Bentley mentioned the Contessa during a mission in Agrabah, oh I'm sorry, Ancient Arabia! (I got Agrabah from Aladdin because that's a fictional city of Ancient Arabia.) So Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time has to exist already because it already takes place after Sly Cooper 3. When Sly Cooper 5 comes out, it's part of the Canon Timeline when it takes place after Sly Cooper Thieves in Time since we got that cliffhanger. Sony should wrap up the original Sly Cooper series with Sly 5 having a good conclusion where Sly is home and we start a new Sly Cooper Series based on the TV Show with New Adventures and Characters.

[@VtnVivi]

Straight up facts :)

[@timsheppard6204]

Prague is what you are thinking of

[@ZainabJalal-y5v]

I understand that Sucker Punch's touch was different and it was what made the game awesome with a deep storyline and great gameplay but Sanzaru's version wasn't all bad. I had prevented myself for so long from playing Sly 4 just because of the bad media and how fans were giving bad reviews about it and I didn't want to play the game because I was scared I wouldn't love Sly anymore until I got so desperate and decided to play it and it is actually not bad at all. I enjoyed the gameplay and the treasures I mean you can't say the game is non canon just because Clockwerk was in the levels it could've been a teaser for future games I mean it had Sir Raleigh's hat from Sly 1 how is that non canon? I would like to believe that it is non canon because I would much rather have an open happy ending in Sly 3 than the terrible tragic cliff hanger of Sly 4 but it is a part of the previous game's story line..

[@VtnVivi]

Thanks for sharing!

[@colleenglanville8293]

*"We're Looking At Infamous 1 And 2."* Who knew Infamous would have an Easter egg related to Sly Cooper 4...I find that quite fascinating! 😄😁👍

[@VtnVivi]

:P

[@colleenglanville8293]

VTNVIVI Yeah! 😜

[@slycooper4506]

I'm so sick of living in this damn cave I would give anything just to eat a cheeseburger one more time.

[@blakecooper669]

I've been stuck here for more then a month, some punk broke the artifact and now I can't return home( I'm still stuck in the same town near your cave though

[@blakecooper669]

Come find me when you get the chance... please?

[@slycooper4506]

@@blakecooper669 hey I just got your message I'm going into town to see if I can find you how did the guy that guards are chasing after

[@blakecooper669]

I don't know, and I was invisible during that time

[@blakecooper669]

@@slycooper4506 Sorry, I blacked out again. can barely keep my eyes open. I don't know exactly who was following me, but i do know he was probably watching me the entire time. I was also using a gadget that could turn me invisible for half an hour. But he somehow must've been smart enough to detect me. I'm almost out of water, I don't know how much longer I can go on like this!

[@TheGamingPez]

I'm sorry but I loved Sly 4! The only thing that I did not like was Sly's character. In the previous games he was serious about the jobs and heists he was pulling with the gang and had a perfect balance of seriousness and humor, but in Sly 4 he seemed to be less serious and more laid back despite the situation he is in, going back in time saving his ancestors. It seemed to me that he thought everything was just a joke and was way more cockier the he was in the previous games. However that does not make it a bad game to me. It actually has it's own charm in a way. I just wish he had that same balance of seriousness and humor that made him such a great character.

[@VtnVivi]

And I completely understand ya!

[@Princess36621]

That is actually a good point.

[@TheGamingPez]

God's Little Princess right? I feel like the game would have been better received if sly was more serious and less goofy like the first 3 games. I don’t hate Sly’s personality in the 4th game. I just like his personality better in the previous games.

[@ashterrifictales7317]

newjerseyking123 Couldn’t have said it better myself!!

[@martinbarrettgamer4333]

yeah I wouldn’t worry about it VTNVIV even I don’t agree what fans have to say about the sly4 after all sanzaru games made sly4 possible but because they left sly4 with a nasty ending and never give us fans with a good ending I prefer the trilogy but I really don’t think sly4 is a bad game As other fans make it seem to be , is it perfect ? No it still need some work around like the character other than that I would had like sly4 more if it had a good ending instead of a cliffhanger .

[@VtnVivi]

Thanks for sharing!

[@beaufonville4454]

SLY *NEEDS* TO COME BACK STILL.😫

[@VtnVivi]

#FreeSlyFromEgypt

[@beaufonville4454]

@@VtnVivi 😁

[@slycooper4506]

If Sly 4 doesn't exist then what the hell am I doing in ancient Egypt.

[@VtnVivi]

Ask Penelope.

[@slycooper4506]

@@VtnVivi I'm not saying I hate Penelope I'm just saying I hope her next period happens in a shark tank.

[@yannick460]

Is this gay ever gonna get another game even a remaster idk I just wanna play the game damn it

[@orvillefischer7503]

I love sly 4 just like the other games (Yeah I said it and I will not take it back)

[@VtnVivi]

And there's nothing wrong with that!

[@antitheist3206]

Your entire argument is a Word Of God fallacy. The creators say it is, and they didn't shut it down, so it counts. Do you want to know why? An in-depth analysis of why people think Thieves in Time doesn't fit into the same story as the trilogy? Here's why: youtu. be/68L0L9Z7uC8 (Spaces were added because youtube has been fickle lately) Anyone who wants to discuss this, here's your opportunity.

[@CaspromProductions]

Hey VTNVIVI, I know this is not imediatly related to the topic, but i just realized something: when Sly arrived to the end of the vault in Sly 3, one of the very first things he says as he see the vehicles and technology in that Room/ Arena is that they we're built centuries way ahead of their time. Meaning that most of the machinery and vehicles were not even invented in the time his ancestors actually put them togerher and created them. Now this gets deeper. With all the teories around Sly stuck in Egipt, and picking up again in the vault. Haven't we all noticed that there was absolutely no space left for Sly to build his own system os traps (on the Path to the Treasure Room like all his ancestors before him built)? Didnt it seemed like Sly's father, built the last portion of the Path with the laser beams? Well, what if i tell you, that the Arena/ Room just at the end of Sly's father laser beams trap, was actually built to be Sly's (and last) section of the Cooper vault? All the tech, as well as all the knownledge that the cooper clan was building through generations culminantes in that last Room, knowing that only Sly would be up to it, and that after him, there would be no more use to keep the vault, meaning no more use for expanding the vault any further. Essentially, this would mean that his portion of the vault was built for him, before he was even born, with the knownledge of who he would come to be, and the precise knownledge of how big the vault would ever need to be. Doesn't it look interesting? Makes Sense?

[@VtnVivi]

1. Ah yeah I see what you mean! I'd like to imagine Thaddeus had his own Brains on his team, something that was not written in the book hence Sly's surprise reaction. At least I'd like to believe not everything was written in the book, only ''COOPER'' stuff. 2. Yes, Sly's dad built the last portion of the vault and I believe he transferred Thaddeus inventions there. 3. Very cool theory!!!! I always thought that was simply Thaddeus' room. The way I see the Cooper vault, it never had any particular order. With time, the place started to crumble, and a certain Cooper, at least someone who knew of Tenessee's rail walking, built obstacles in the vault.

[@uberkirbeeh7954]

I think if Sony would say that Thieves in Time was not canon or existed in it's own separate canon from the trilogy series ( like Sonic Boom ), the majority would accept it and things would be easier for the game series to move forward, than having to create a game or any piece of fiction just to fix everything that Thieves in Time ruin for the series, and THEN move the series forward. But right now, we have to deal with the reality and accept it.

[@Maverick9k]

Sly 4 Great game Great story Improved graphics from the previous trilogy Horrible ending Overall probably the second best sly cooper game behind Sly2

[@VtnVivi]

Thanks for sharing!

[@KrisFox5]

Uh yea improved graphics from the previous trilogy this is only on PS3 "Overall probably the second best sly cooper game behind Sly2" Triloges best games than Sly 4 with Horrible story and ending with many holes

[@KrisFox5]

If only we could get a sequel from Sucker Punch not Sanzaru games we can thinking is a canon Only from Sanzaru we received a continuation in terms of time travel and of course from Bentley’s phrase that he is going to develop a time machine(from Sly 3)

[@bluexhunter3025]

I don’t think you explained much of why it’s still canon. Also I didn’t see any evidence of sucker punch saying that they liked sly theives in time, it’s just your word. Why bother saying something without evidence?

[@Theottselmaster]

I think the simple answer is: People prefer the good ending of the series in 3, then the bleak heartless ending of 4.

[@VtnVivi]

True!

[@antitheist3206]

I disagree. The timeline inconsistencies, The lack of any rules to time travel, The fact that Murray's outback training is gone and he had to redo his entire character arc in the span of less than 1 chapter, Penelope leaving Bentley for money despite being given the entirety of the Cooper fortune no strings attached, Sly treating half his ancestors like dirt despite having been reverent of them in past games... You could write a book with all the reasons people consider Sly TiT non-canon. These aren't differences of opinion, these are things that don't make any sense within the world being discussed. Don't pretend this is just people overblowing their personal thoughts.

[@koikarppa]

We need Sly 5 with Sly 2/3 graphics. Just think about it, Sucker Punch going back to their old stuff and briging it to the current engine, would be dream come true

[@VtnVivi]

I like the style of Sly 4 :)

[@BrennySpain]

This is still a very interesting topic of discussion even after all this time. After I replay the original trilogy on ps2, not gonna go back to the PS3 remasters I don’t think, I’ll definitely have to jump back into sly 4 and try to give me fun do thoughts on it?

[@VongolaXZax]

Thanks for the clarification Vi. 😎 But i already knew that Sly 4 was Canon, and in my opinion its definitely the best in the series! 😃 Yeah, I know everyone is entirely entitled to their own opinions about Sly 4, and they should, that's one of the greatest things a human being can have and that's a mind of their own. In short, I have played the original trilogy, I never can forget the night my brother surprise me with it, Thank God, and I'd did play them through and through, I enjoyed them all, but in my opinion Sly 4 definitely does stack up from the other 3, setting itself apart, story wise, and continuing in a new direction. Was it a more light hearted story? Yeah, but it did have its serious moments, I enjoy games with that, but not too or overly silly where I can't take anything seriously, not calling sly 4 that, just giving an example. Would I like to see the series go back to a more, "grit" story? Sure, but in short again, the main thing is, we as fans, shouldn't be in or start wars, or arguments about which is better VS which is worse, not saying your doing that, I'm saying in general, and just come together and sit down, to talk about things that we all like and enjoy. If someone has a opinion, let them speak it, if he or she disagrees, he or she disagrees, you can respect a persons opinion, or if you don't want to, you don't have to, it's just a matter of hearing a person out, and understanding what their saying, and what their side of things are, but if you don't want to hear, your entitled to that too, just don't argue over it. Besides, the last we need, and more importantly, shouldn't do as a fan base, is argue over a fictional character. You know what i mean? I enjoyed your video, and I respect your opinion on Sly in general.

[@VtnVivi]

Thanks Zax!

[@VongolaXZax]

No problem Vi. 😎👍

[@fannedafternoon2695]

Sly cooper it would be a movie what's your thoughts you guys what would be added on sly cooper every type of character

[@VtnVivi]

Sly Cooper as a movie, I feel deserves a dark feel AND the teaser had represented that nicely!

[@fannedafternoon2695]

VTNVIVI good opinion👍😌

[@cquinn8731]

Sly 4 wasn’t that sure bad sure poorly written plot line but over all a enjoyable play through and I f or one enjoyed playing as the ancestors.

[@VtnVivi]

Thanks for sharing!

[@colleenglanville8293]

*"I Don't Really Know What To Call This Video..."* I don't think it really matters, just as long as it has something to do with the subject! 🤷‍♀️

[@domzz3940]

Man dude if they never make a sly 5 they should at least remaster these games

[@VtnVivi]

Remaster as in HD ports? Or remake?

[@domzz3940]

@@VtnVivi i think maybe a remake kinda like when they made the uncharted collection they can put the first 4 games or three all in one disc

[@Lizzybunny99]

I love Sly Cooper games! In Sly Cooper 4 the design is very different and I love it and it is really funny I enjoy it when I watched it!

[@BrennySpain]

Vivi I’m kind of really sad right now. There’s not gonna be a MediEvil 2 remake. The game didn’t sell well enough even though it was in the top 10 UK sales chart for the first month I think. What do you think? I’m so disappointed about this but I guess obviously the fan base isn’t strong enough would you say?

[@VtnVivi]

Wait, didn't sell enough? Was this confirmed? I'm aware the team is not making another remake, but sales? I'm not aware. I assumed it did ok.

[@BrennySpain]

VTNVIVI well that’s what I found on an article through Facebook I’m pretty sure.

[@nope9183]

Sanzaru said they went back and wrote down all the things for the ancestors but did they do it right? No. So the fact that they poorly made the ancestors and the fact that some things in the game makes zero sense, is just my opinion? If all ancestors had all abilities up to the laser slide then its just my complaint and not something wrong Sanzaru made? Lame. Also you said this game was accepting to all new players, so the others weren't? The other games had Sly saying his parents died, for sly2 it was told he destroyed clockwork and showed it then said he is back, thus the plot for sly2. Sly3 did a throwback to sly2 by showing that Murray left because of what happened at the end of sly2 and showing the wreckage and Bentley passed out. This game makes little references to even sly3, just pictures and that's it besides Dimitri and even that was 2 scenes. No Guru? No Panda King? And penelope is just a dumb plot twist like for real. Sanzaru helped remake the trilogy but they left a bit of stuff out from sly2 which was dumb, well secret things but even then those things to players that did know about it were angry since it was bonus content. Also for all we know the early beta for the game could have been way better and more closer to the original and that's why Sucker punch said yes go ahead, until they made what was made and Sucker punch was like "yeah its unique but not what we would make" but to sound professional they said they liked it. Lastly, if the game is canon cuz of gameplay from old games and a continuation from sly3's time travel send off then any fan made game that has that is also canon. Not just some things were handled poorly, almost everything was. I saw another video that went more into depth about everything that was the reason this isn't canon and they had SEVERAL points and not just "its just my opinion" and even said that any counter to their video needed more feedback than "its just ur opinion" or "its by sanzaru an official game maker" so maybe you saying it is canon is just your opinion since you don't provide more than basic gameplay, its by sanzaru and sucker punch, and the fact that its after sly3.

[@VtnVivi]

Thanks for sharing!

[@edgelord8337]

Sly 3 had the best sly Cooper story of all time and sly 4 in my opinion had the weakest one. I can't even remember most of the story but with 3 I remember everything. I just hope sly 5 has a better one. But just writing sly 4 as non cannon is crap. It's still a sly game and it's a pretty good one.

[@omegasamurai1787]

I may not be the biggest fan of theives in Time but I won't say it not Cannon since Bentley literally mentions wanting to make a time machine at the end of Sly 3 people forget that😂

[@VtnVivi]

There's also other references to previous games.

[@omegasamurai1787]

@@VtnVivi that too!

[@dirtyfighters7751]

Oh God... This is a very controversial thing to say with TGX and J's Reviews around... I think you've started one of the biggest rivalries in the world... But I still enjoyed the video, even though I really don't like Sly 4. But I don't care which game is canon at this point, I just really want something new from my favourite anthropomorphic video-game character.

[@VtnVivi]

Thanks for sharing! I don't understand where this ''rivalry'' is coming from, it's simply people speaking differently of a certain game.

[@dirtyfighters7751]

VTNVIVI I’m talking about TGX Games Review (or something like that), and J’s Reviews. Both of which hate Sly 4 and made a video trying to prove it’s non-canon.

[@VtnVivi]

Yeah I'm aware of that video :)

[@rowanmilestaco4797]

As a Doctor Who fan, something being 'canon' doesn't matter to me anymore. If you like it, you like it. If you don't like it, you don't like it.

[@VtnVivi]

Well there you go :P

[@gracekim25]

funnily enough, i fully intend on playing this game eventually on the PS4. people can like or dislike it but like isn't got continuity with the third game? so yeah regardless of anyone's opinions, the game is cannon XD 18.5.23

[@ShadowRaccoon54]

The writing was definitely the biggest reason why TiT is considered the worst Sly game. Sanzaru said they wanted to make sure they got the characters' personalities down pat and then turned around and butchered them, for lack of a better word. All of the returning cast suffered from this. The main villain looks like he was plucked from a Sly Cooper fan page on DeviantArt because of his backstory and his motivation is just bad. The game is also littered with inconsistencies which are, again, caused by bad writing. The gameplay was good, though the control of the characters feel clunky. I like that they brought back the bottles and expanded on the collectible loot from Sly 2. The arcade and ping pong mini-games are cool and I really like that you have to collect all the loot in an episode to "fix" the arcade machine, and if you're going after all the collectible Sly masks, there's one hidden in each arcade game. It feels like a classic game where you get rewarded for exploring and finding everything. The costumes are an ok edition. I don't really like the sabertooth skin or the jailbird outfit since they don't have any use outside what they make you use it for in the story and for getting to loot in other episodes (and they're just boring imo), but the rest of them are enjoyable. So TL;DR, the gameplay mechanics are good and there's plenty to do even after beating the game with collectibles and trophies. What really killed this game in the eyes of veteran fans is the story. I cannot stress enough how terrible the writing was. I still enjoy the game, but I cringe every time I have to play through Murray's pointless character arc in Episode 3, when Carmelita hits on Tennessee or Galleth as a petty out-of-character way to get back at Sly, and when Sly uses his Italian accent as a joke during a serious undercover job in an area where the locals don't speak Italian. Seriously, I want to slap him every time.

[@VtnVivi]

Thanks for your take!

[@sawa-san5417]

Wait this is only from 3 weeks ago?! I'm surprised people other than myself are still interested in talking about the game and discussing it/theorizing 😂 (great video btw. I feel like the only thing about sly 4 that took away from feeling canon was things like the clockwerk eye etc but to me that's just Easter eggs)

[@VtnVivi]

Thanks for watching!

[@ashterrifictales7317]

Oh yeah! VTNVIVI, can you make a video on how some of the Coopers in Sly 4 could do moves that weren’t invited yet? Ex: Salim could do the railwalk

[@VtnVivi]

Hmm..... Who knows :P

[@basicbluetrash]

Sly 2 and 4 are my favorites in the series. I frickin’ LOVE Thieves in Time

[@VtnVivi]

Awesome!

[@VongolaXZax]

It's good to know there's more out there, that enjoy the game too. 😄

[@FangChaChomp]

Sly Cooper... The "Half-Life" of Sony.

[@VtnVivi]

Tell me about it....

[@brycespence8028]

Oh yeah that’s right Sly Cooper 4 is cannon all right!!! It this people like me just don’t like Sly Cooper 4

[@supernew10doh64]

I think you completely misunderstand what makes something non-canon. Sony and everything else don't have to completely disregarded for it to be non-canon and just cuz one of the voice actors partially wrote thieves of time or Sucker Punch didn't speak up against certain things not being right doesn't mean that this isn't non-canon. There's loads of reasons why this is not canon. None of the characters aside from Bentley acting the way that they should, flashbacks in this game completely disregarding how they actually appeared in previous games and you could say that this is kind of a moot point because there flashbacks but Sucker Punch actually went to the effort to make flashbacks look the way they did in previous games and if we are to take the flashbacks in thieves of time the same way we would in the previous Trilogy than this is completely illogical, Clockwork being completely metallic in chapter 3 which takes place in the era of the first Cooper in the prehistoric era, the Clockwork eye that you can get in chapter 3 for finding all of the clue bottles makes absolutely no sense to be there especially with the description in the game as for what this guy is and Vault items have always been Canon before so there's no reason why this wouldn't be considered the same way for the game, certain characters not having abilities they displayed before, Penelope being way taller than she was in Sly 3 and we see in a flashback that she was always comparable to sly in terms of height in this game is continuity which is certainly not the case in Sly 3 etc. Pretty much the entire games plot hinges on Penelope betraying Bentley and giving the time machine plans to paradox because she could be making millions and billions of dollars even though she and Bentley control the Cooper Fortune which has so much treasure from hundreds of generations of the greatest thieves from history which almost certainly are greater in worse than what they would be getting anyway? Like literally the entire game would not have happened if Penelope was actually written properly in the fact that they had to bend her in such a way just to make this crappy plot work is so ass-backwards that there's really nothing you can say but non-canon.

[@VtnVivi]

Thanks for sharing!

[@supernew10doh64]

@@VtnVivi I'm just saying that just because it isn't discarded by Sony or whatever doesn't mean it isn't non-canon I mean look at Dragon Ball GT that is something that most fans considered to be horrible and non-canon yet it isn't too started by the people who were involved with Dragon Ball. The series Creator in that franchise outright stated that it was a fun Side Story he never claimed it was non-canon despite what many fans would say.

[@Hortominnesota0]

@@VtnVivi I enjoy, enjoy, enjoy, tomorrow, they are said to present the ps5 and its games and say that 70% present Sly 5.godo

[@VtnVivi]

@@Hortominnesota0 Yeah just heard we're getting news on PS5 tomorrow!

[@Hortominnesota0]

@@VtnVivi And maybe Sly 5 too

[@arthuralam1000]

Penelope being a villain AGAIN, Sly being trapped on Egypt and that amazing Cooperoni thing was the worst parts of the game. Sly always wanted to be a trapeze artist. Really? Bob Cooper was unnecessary too. Dozens of ancestors and they create a new one. I really love this game by the way.

[@VtnVivi]

The Italian accent I always saw it an an intentional nod to the series.

[@arthuralam1000]

Italian accent is fine. The trapeze artist thing is the problem. If he really wanted to join the Circus why risk his relationship with Carmelita robbing a museum? He never wanted to be a trapeze artist. And even if he wanted, what I doubt, he would join a Circus, not rob that museum.

[@RiiViiMedia2424]

"How to make opinion feel more validated than others?" *Say what you like didn't matter?* Sure.

[@KrisFox5]

Uh man this game is not-canon in Sly Trilogy, it's Spin off with big bad things for Sly. Well i think Sly 4 is not a serious spinoff with plot problems and full of holes, like out of nowhere the villain and his relatives were created as Paradox. Which are not even mentioned in thievius raccoonus as enemy like Clockwerk Paradox that who wanted to steal a couple of canes in order to appear as a genius thief (Only Tennesse, Bob, Riochi, Galleth, Salim and possibly Sly's Cane) there are no other ancestors if he so wanted to defeat the Cooper clan (Slytunkhamen Cooper,Slaigh MacCooper,Henriette Cooper,Thaddeus Winslow Cooper III,Otto van Cooper and Sly Cooper) They also have their own similar canes but not a single word about them There are also a lot of questions about the ending why help an enemy who essentially wanted to get rid of your relatives by creating a time paradox In fact, the developers decided to just throw Sly Cooper in the trash with Jak and Daxter and other games, leaving him in Egypt so that everyone would think so But in this way they divided the fandom into several groups First Group: Where do the guys consider the canon ending in the game Sly 3, About Sly 4 is just Spin off with more bad things Secondary group -And others took the ending seriously

[@NotOrdinaryInGames]

The only comparable case I can think of comes from the world of anime, and it is the Fullmetal Alchemist movie, sequel and ending to the 2003 anime. Not to say FMA and Sly 4 are identical in where the story goes, but the reaction is similar. Those who didn't like it are very angry about it. NOT SAYING BEING ANGRY IS WRONG, just seeing similar reactions.

[@junioraranda1528]

I don't care they think sly cooper thieves in time sucks I just want sly cooper 5 for PS5.

[@VtnVivi]

#Sly5ForPS5

[@NotOrdinaryInGames]

I have to add something, however. Fiction isn't real, it does not exist. THEREFORE, I have the right to ignore any sequel or prequel that, in my HONEST opinion, has awful writing and ruins the story. I can ignore any sequel or prequel, because fiction is not real and it's not like I am denying reality. Some people chose to ignore Sly 4, and it is their right. I don't see the writing as anywhere near trash, I see it as good to great, so I accept it as canon. But only because I see the writing as good. Disney Star Wars sequels are not canon though, Bob Eiger and Kathleen Kennedy can get lost.

[@VtnVivi]

I see!

[@BrennySpain]

"girlfriend, ex-girlfriend." hahaha! now that's funny!

[@VtnVivi]

Had the same reaction my first time hehe!

[@petrajt]

Having played through all 3 games on the PS Vita, and far enough through the 4th game, I would say that I actually really do like 4. Sure it has its issues and time-travel nearly always involves plot holes; I just prefer to believe the world they created instead of looking at the "logic" of things. It's just more enjoyable to me that way, I mean it is a kids game after all, why worry about all the details, just enjoy the world and story they created. Personally, I enjoyed the voice acting, character designs, and the jokes in the mission chatter it didn't really bother me too much. The idea of meeting your lineage of ancestors and legends of the past was a great idea and was something different. Gameplay-wise I found it to perhaps be my favourite out of the 4. Sure some abilities were shuffled around for the sake of having a new ancestor to play each episode, I think it provided a new gameplay style that really gave the series something fresh and new. I only have played on the PS Vita, and let me tell you playing Sly on the go is super cool. I didn't really experience that many FPS drops because the game runs at 30FPS anyway, that goes for all 4 games. I don't mind Sly 5 with 4 as canon or a reboot, either way, I'm fine! I really enjoyed all 4 Games a lot. Gameplay-wise I'd probably rank the 4 games 4-3-2-1. Story-wise 2&3 (tied in my books) - 4 -1. That's not to say the 1's story is bad, it's actually really good It's why I loved the series and got on board with playing all 4 games. It's just that 4 had the context of all 3 storylines (yes I mean canon 😅) in some capacity.

[@VtnVivi]

Thank you for sharing :D

[@unofficialmeme5972]

It's stuck as canon until the writers demand otherwise.

[@VtnVivi]

Sums it all up!

[@evilgamemichaelsperling8736]

I wonder about crash 4 game which is canon Wrath of Cortex or it's about time 😍