Why the Arrow Line Failed - And How to Fix it

The Arrow Line, a new rail service connecting San Bernardino to Redlands, had a lot of promise when it opened in 2022. But low ridership, confusing transfers, and long commute times have made it a challenge. In this video, we explore the history of the Arrow Line, its struggles, and whether extending existing Metrolink lines to Redlands could have been a better solution. Plus, we dive into how future expansions and new technologies like hydrogen-powered trains could still save the line.
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#ArrowLine #Metrolink #PublicTransit #Rail #Redlands #Commuting #HydrogenTrains

[@everything.trains]

Thank you all for watching. Just some things I forgot to add. I meant to say DMUS not EMUS, LOL. The hydrogen Arrow train is called ZEMU, Zero Emission Multiple Unit. The Redlands residents threw a fit for years over this project and it took awhile for this extension to be complete. At first the original plan was just for the Metrolink to be extended but residents were concerned over the noise with the locomotives. Then they looked into electric trains with catenaries but residents were concerned over the looks. Finally they planned to have DMUS run on the line and Omnitrans was set to be the operator but wasn't able to due to financial difficulties. So DMUS operated by Herzog/Metrolink was it. I also forgot to add that unfortunately at Redlands University station, if SBCTA wanted to extend the line further to places like Mentone, Highland, Yucaipa, etc they would have a tough time as they put a giant parking lot blocking the right of way. I think this line overall just needs work and Metrolink's next steps are crucial for it. I'll do my best to reply to every question/comment.

[@lyndakorner2383]

Ill-informed people spreading misinformation is the Internet. Because of constraints in Measure I and in the laws of the Cities of Redlands and San Bernardino, the project could not purchase enough trainsets to provide, in the initial phase, 15-minute headways, which are necessary for any high-quality transitway and for transit-oriented development. Change the laws in order to increase the service frequency.

[@ATSF855SanBernardinoCountyRail]

How about dismantle the arrow just bring in metrolink not calimesa just rebuilt former ATSF redlands branch back to mentone patton highland bring back diesel fuel smoke engines from F59PH from metrolink and bring in classic ATSF diesel engines Santa Fe steam locomotives and bring 1910s 1920s 1930s ATSF heavyweight passenger pullman cars back to former Santa Fe Redlands Line

[@labiker]

Extend the Metrolink trains to Redlands. Then build tracks to Ontario Airport, and run the Arrow trains between Redlands and the airport.

[@everything.trains]

Good point!

[@russellmcdonaldjr2123]

They should build tracks all the way to Oceanside, California which would be another option to get toward San Diego.

[@labiker]

@@russellmcdonaldjr2123 Metrolink is already running trains between San Bernardino and Oceanside.

[@AMPProf]

or don't live in california

[@BenMonares]

@@labikeryeah but brooo only one train goes to Oceanside I’m not kiddinh

[@anitrain]

I completely agree that it would have been a lot better to simply extend existing service to Redlands. The DMU section is too small for decent ridership on it's own and forcing a transfer is inconvenient. That said, the FLIRT DMUs are very nice trains and I would love to see them deployed where they make sense in short shuttle services such as San Bernardino to Riverside or LA Union Station to Burbank Airport.

[@everything.trains]

Exactly, the DMUS are very nice still and can have great use elsewhere.

[@MDLC424]

My vote is to use the FLIRTs for late night service.

[@anitrain]

@@MDLC424 I would have said the same thing except that the FLIRTs need different height station platforms. That would be expensive to do systemwide. That’s why I was thinking frequent shuttle service where only a few platform modifications would be necessary.

[@Nouvellecosse]

They should rename it to the "Aero Line" since it's transporting air.

[@everything.trains]

Top comment! Lol! 😂

[@obkb1]

It would have been better to extend the Metrolink trains to Redlands than to use DMUs.

[@T128Productions]

Agreed. Still better than no trains whatsoever.

[@everything.trains]

I totally agree with you. Transit is supposed to make lives easier, right?

[@davidng2336]

They were supposed to use actual trains but changed to DMU because of complaints.

[@erik_griswold]

This was supposed to be an Omnitrans operation. @everythingtrains has not familiarized themselves with the history of this line’s creation.

[@Southern_California_Railfanner]

Extend and Double track as much as possible

[@Point_Capistrano]

Interesting part is, Arrow wasn't Metrolink's idea. It was a separate operation until the original agency handed it over to Metrolink. This whole thing shouldn't have been started to begin with imo with the exception of running SB/IEOC line trains to Redlands directly

[@bhuddy1832]

Thank you for pointing that out, his failure at "due diligence'" in providing that fact about the history of the Arrow was clearly lacking. This was something that was kind of foisted on ML to run, without much involvement in the planning. I should however point out that lack of service levels by ML on the Perris line also has resulted in lousy ridership. Ridership estimates for both projects assumed higher service levels and better connectivity, and since that is not the current operating scenario, guess what, the ridership is much lower-go figure? His comments on H2 safety show a complete lack of knowledge about the subject and seems to be repeating "anti-hydrogen" talking points by the construction contractor lobbyists, who are lobbying for the air regulators to "mandate" "only" very costly RR electrification as the "only" acceptable "zero" emissions technology. This, of course, is self-serving nonsense by those interests.

[@captainminecraft631]

A higher frequency of trains, and more convenient transfers between the Orange County and San Bernardino lines would make it more competitive against the Route 8 bus operated by Omnitrans which runs about the same route as the Arrow Line.

[@everything.trains]

Definitely. Better bus transfers are needed as well.

[@chrisyin1990]

Why did they not align the schedule to Metrolink instead of doing 40 min transfers? By the way this reminds me of what BART did with e-BART in the Antioch extension.

[@KpopLover-ze8pd]

They are timed to be 10 to 18 minutes, I think the Metrolink trip planner might not be showing the correct transfer train because there is a 6:16 train that leaves SB that is timed for the Arrow that arrives at 6:06.

[@stevens1041]

Great comparison. E-BART was a massive fail.

[@robserrano8971]

I got family in Brentwood in NorCal. BART needs to extend to Brentwood

[@everything.trains]

Most transfers are 10 minutes however a good amount are 40 minutes.

[@erik_griswold]

@@stevens1041eBart gets ridership

[@californiaporg]

A proposal from nandert explains how the arrow could be extended further west, extending this line to Pomona downtown, via the Ontario Airport and before it turns off for the airport, a connection at Rancho Cucamonga for Brightline West. On a side note, land use around every Arrow station is currently horrible except for a few businesses at Redlands downtown. Improving land use could increase ridership hopefully

[@AMPProf]

so for nobody who needs it just fake hippies with money

[@californiaporg]

clearly you don’t understand the positive impacts of extending the arrow line through Ontario airport acting as a s-bahn style service; supplementing existing rail service / making it better.

[@panzer_TZ]

Probably too late for this comment to be noticed, but when I worked for Metrolink from 2014-2018, the general view was that SBCTA and Omnitrans wanted their own rail system to play with. Hindsight is always 20/20, but San Bernadino really wanted something separate from Metrolink. I think if SBCTA and Omnitrans knew from the start that it was going to be ran by Metrolink, they would've just extended Metrolink service. As for noise, Redlands could pay to upgrade their crossings to quiet zone standards like the Orange County cities do.

[@bhuddy1832]

This was something that was kind of foisted on ML to run, without much involvement in the planning. I should however point out that lack of service levels by ML on the Perris line also has resulted in lousy ridership. Ridership estimates for both projects assumed higher service levels and better connectivity, and since that is not the current operating scenario, guess what, the ridership is much lower-go figure?

[@treasurevalleytrackside9527]

1-2 riders per train?! In California? That's crazy to me. Theres so many cities in the US with no passenger rail service at all, and I'm living in one. So many people in these cities want passenger trains so badly because of the congestion on their roads, but don't get them because of several factors including politics, taxes and negotiating with already existing railroad companies. But it sounds to me like Metrolink more so wanted to be the first commuter railroad to run hydrogen trains rather than make half-way decent surface to Redlands and points beyond. This is not profitable for Metrolink at all. The millions of dollars they spent to rebuild the track from scratch and buy new equipment. Its a very creative idea, but this railroad is doomed to close if changes are not made for better that will convince people they should ride the train

[@TheMowsefan]

Public transit never makes a profit. It always needs our taxes to support it.

[@JohnGeorgeBauerBuis]

@@TheMowsefan there are passenger train services that do turn a profit, although this is now somewhat the exception nowadays. The first transcontinental railroad had an operating profit from passenger trains as well as (unexpectedly) freight trains, although it did require subsidies to build (mostly in the form of land grants).

[@wta1518]

One thing that's wild to me is that Arrow gets similar ridership to the green line in Sacramento. The green line is a tiny little stub that almost entirely overlaps the gold line except for a less than one mile stretch to a single stop. It's also the least frequent of all the lines with trains every 30 minutes.

[@wta1518]

One thing that's wild to me is that Arrow gets similar ridership to the green line in Sacramento. The green line is a tiny little stub that almost entirely overlaps the gold line except for a less than one mile stretch to a single stop. It's also the least frequent of all the lines with trains every 30 minutes.

[@walawala-fo7ds]

For people to take the train, it must be better than driving. When you design a system like LAs which is massive but poorly designed, you end up with ridership that's below smaller cities with smaller systems. Highly or fully separated metros are by far the best bang for the buck based on ridership numbers from system in Europe and Asia. But instead of building something fast and grade separated, LA build something slow and at grade. Hence it is worse than driving, hence people just drive.

[@Lucius_Chiaraviglio]

By the way, these are DMU, not EMU trains. Metrolink in general has the problem of infrequent service and an end of service time that is ridiculously early. The Arrow Line adds a long transfer and slow travel speeds on top of that. No surprise it was going to be a failure.

[@everything.trains]

Thank you for the correction, I was confused with Caltrain LOL. Fixed. ✅

[@longebane]

you aren't going Redlands LA in 1.5 hrs during rush hour. maybe closer to 2.5hrs, which is how long the train takes, but without the stress of bumper to bumper traffic. but i totally agree with a direct route. no one's using the train to go to San Bernardino. why would they

[@everything.trains]

Thanks for your input.

[@BenMonares]

That and there’s a lot of sht drivers who would cause accidents and it would block traffic, which is a big fat problem. It happens almost all of time

[@bhuddy1832]

Yeah, on average that may be a peak travel time, but the peak variability (due to accidents, incidents, weather) may easily add up to 50% more travel time.

[@genoobtlp4424]

Probably best to have extended the long trains, but with the short trains guaranteeing their connection, you could probably make up for that with better acceleration and shorter dwell times. But that would mean guaranteeing regular connections (it seems they’re arriving at xx:12, so have arrow depart at xx:15/20 and the other way the big trains depart at xx:45, so come in at xx:35/40)

[@StopRequested]

I feel that your noise comparison wasn't quite accurate - you showed a brief clip of one of the metrolink cab cars compared to the arrow, but not the metrolink engine, which is arguably louder. Aside from that, good video.

[@everything.trains]

Thank you for watching!

[@Kletterhaus]

These connections should never ever be longer than 3 to 5 minutes. That they design infrastructure that does not enable that seems ridiculous to me.

[@bhuddy1832]

Yep, and we know that, which is all the more disappointing.

[@leoshahbazian6830]

There's a lot of misinformation in this video. I got to speak with the Executive Director of the SBCTA a few months ago specifically about the Arrow: First of all, you show images of the express train trip length numerous times to seemingly demonstrate how much faster the trip would be if they had just ran an extension instead of a new line. The express train skips about half of the stops along the way, which makes it faster. A regular train from San Bernardino to LA takes about 1:45, and you have to add the Arrow which takes about 20 minutes end-to-end. It's about 2:20 with the new schedule (shorter transfers), and getting rid of the transfers would only make it about 2:05. (And by the way, rush hour Redlands to LA is about 2.5-3 hours. I know because I started taking this train to avoid it) Second, at 3:45 you show the cab-car passing in order to compare sound. The actual engine (locomotive) (loud bit) is at the opposite end of the train. To be clear, it is painfully loud when it passes directly next to you like this. Noise complaints were rightfully placed considering this line passes directly next to homes and they wanted frequent service. Now, to some facts I can clarify from Ray Wolfe, Director of the SBCTA: You mentioned in your pinned comment "Then they looked into electric trains with catenaries but residents were concerned over the looks." I asked Mr. Wolfe and he said they did not do any sort of public outreach. As far as I am aware, they decided for themselves that people would not like the look of catenaries and did not ACTUALLY ask anyone. However, the cost and ROW requirements for catenary made it unfeasible anyway. At 4:35; Ray Wolfe confirmed they would be purchasing cars WITH bathrooms for the longer distance routes. Not sure where you got the idea that a hydrogen leak would cause the train to explode leading to everyone dying... that's some fearmongering right there. First of all, any leaked hydrogen would float into the sky since it is lighter than air. Second, the trains are very safe, even in the event of a crash. Ensuring safety is part of the design and construction process and part of why you can't just slap something together and go. There are legitimate problems with Hydrogen, however, mostly pertaining to the fact that they do not have an actual clean hydrogen source and are producing some of it from fossil fuels and delivering it via Truck from Nevada and Arizona (Confirmed by Wolfe). It's not as environmentally friendly as they claim. In fact, it's a lot of extra steps and losses just to use the same stuff the other trains use. Actual electric trains would have been better, but they can't afford to electrify the rails and needed something that pollutes less, so Wolfe is trying to push this Hydrogen idea on Metrolink (at least he claims it was his/SBCTA's idea). All that said, I don't like the Arrow and wish it had been something else. Apparently, this is all they could afford. You have to remember that San Bernardino County is VERY poor. They have to manage a very large area with comparatively low population (you know, the people who pay taxes and therefore pay for everything in the County..). I would have preferred a trolley or really anything with catenary and more frequent service, but they believed people wouldn't like it (or maybe the SBCTA just didn't like it) and thought it would cost too much. Part of the cost was the right of way; Existing ROW is not big enough for the other options and has to share space with the heavy rail track for the single freight service that runs on a portion of it. Yes, a single delivery, once a week... Have a look into their EIR if you want to see the actual options they seriously considered. And please, if you're going to make informative videos, be informed.

[@everything.trains]

Thank you for your comment and intel.

[@JPBX904]

As a foamer, I don't necessarily view Arrow as a "failure", but more like e-BART, a gadgetbahn-esque, quirky extension of a rail line intending to lower the cost of the extension, however may have been more suitable as the method of rail it connects to. As a regular commuter, it may be frustrating that it isn't exactly fulfilling ridership expectations, but consider yourself lucky that you actually HAVE rail service.

[@everything.trains]

Very true! Thanks for your comment.

[@bhuddy1832]

This was something that was kind of foisted on ML to run, without much involvement in the planning. I should however point out that lack of service levels by ML on the Perris line also has resulted in lousy ridership. Ridership estimates for both projects assumed higher service levels and better connectivity, and since that is not the current operating scenario, guess what, the ridership is much lower-go figure?

[@threepea1151]

You forgot that the Redlands Line still was served by the ATSF until the 90s

[@robserrano8971]

Arrow Line needs to be extended west to Ontario Airport with light rail. Go south on E Street to National Orange Show/Inland Center Station, over 215 fwy Grant /Mt.Vernon SB Valley College Station, Mt. Vernon/Colton Colton Park Station, Valley Bl /Rancho Ave, Valley Bl/Pepper Ave Arrowhead Regional Medical Center Station, Valley Bl/Cedar Ave Bloomington Station, Sierra Ave Fontana Kaiser Station, Valley Bl/ Cherry Ave South Fontana Station, Ontario Mills Station, Toyota Arena Station along Concourse St, and finally Ontario Airport.

[@MartinHoeckerMartinez]

There is an existing rail plan by the San Bernardino County Transit Agency (SBCTA Hybrid Rail Study from 2018) to do something similar

[@robserrano8971]

@@MartinHoeckerMartinez that would be amazing if SBCTA made it happen.

[@_thebusphotograher_cali]

it should have just been an extension to Redlands instead for the San Bernadino Line Instead

[@bhuddy1832]

And the OC-IE trains as well, since much of the commute market out of Redlands and that area is to OC.

[@Southern_California_Railfanner]

Heard from an employee that some higher-ups won't even get close to the nitrogen set bc they think its like a moving bomb lol

[@JohnGeorgeBauerBuis]

This shows just how misunderstood hydrogen is.

[@EXROBOWIDOW]

Hydrogen?

[@Naund32]

OMG, ignorance is bliss.

[@bhuddy1832]

First of all, let's learn some high school chemistry, and remember that nitrogen is not a flammable gas. And that "hydrogen" is the gas that is used to produce electricity using fuel cells in the H2 FLRT ZEMU (zero emissions multiple unit) trains Arrow has bought. And, that H2 in various applications is used all around the world and has been shown to be less dangerous than CNG, which is way less dangerous for fire and/or explosion than gasoline. So quit listening to fearmongering by special interest lobbyists who are pushing "only" electrification, mandated by government mandate, for their own greed. "Herds" are notoriously prone to rumors and incorrect information.

[@Naund32]

​@@bhuddy1832I don't see any explosive danger from those trains. I think it's great that the world is working on improving technology and creating new tech.

[@bareth_]

Why do the Arrow line trains look like the eBART 😂😂😂 (This was a great video. Very informative and clean background footage. You deserve more subscribers!)

[@everything.trains]

Thank you so much! More awesome content coming!

[@armandoventura9043]

Because they were manufactured by the same company

[@bareth_]

@@armandoventura9043 ah that makes sense

[@wta1518]

Both were made by Stadler (who also made the excellent new EMUs for Caltrain, Metrolink should be taking notes).

[@Naund32]

Because both systems use FLIRT trains. EMU, DMU, ZMU they're all FLIRT and and are in operation globally.

[@travis2615]

The Arrow can be a good idea. I would love to use it to get from Fontana to Downton SB at early commuter times, but the arrow doesn't doesn't go anywhere. SB to Redlands could have been a bus, hell the SBX is basically the Arrow, but better with a route that goes to CSUSB. Nobody is really looking to go from SB to Redlands. And Redlands people are ABSO Fing LUTELY not looking to go to SB. Main issue for Metrolink is that it's set up to get people west and it only goes east to get trains to come back to LA. If I want to get to SB, earliest I can get there is 08:12. If Arrow could run at minimum Rancho to Redlands with frequent trains like 30 minutes tops it would work great, ideally to Montclair to link up with LAs metro A line expansion.

[@todddammit4628]

I think the A line is the most important line in SoCal and its expansion kind of flies under the radar.

[@LGVRhin-Rhone]

As a viewer from Japan the train sizes in the US confuse me. Why is Metrolink operating massive, twin deck consists when their ridership is so low? Why not run DMUs the whole length of the network instead of using overpowered diesel locos? Also the low platforms on western (American/European) trains throw me off. It just seems to add complexity to the trainsets and difficulty to conforming to accessibility requirements.

[@mikegaskin5542]

Ridership on mainline Metrolink is not so low as it is on Arrow. Plus the trains are infrequent so a lot of people board each one, especially at rush hour. Circa 2010 I would take the MBTA express train to Boston from West Natick in the morning. Seven bilevel cars in the consist and all of them full by the time the train gets to West Natick. I hardly ever remember sitting in a seat, it was always standing room.

[@darthjohn0]

They should have created a service similar to the eBART in the Bay Area (which also happens to be 9 miles long). At BART's Pittsburg/Bay Point Station, BART and eBart share an island platform and an eBART train is usually on the platform when a BART train arrives. I suppose full double tracks helps eBART be more effective, but I can't see why the schedules and transfer situation can't be improved so Arrow can be as successful as eBART.

[@simont6337]

Interesting. Someone else has mentioned that 'The line wasn't dormant. It was a Santa Fe/BNSF dedicated freight line' but if that's true why was much construction required to open it up again? Also I'd be very interested to know how many level crossings there are on the re-opened line. Quite a few, according to the visuals. I'm not from the USA, but where I'm from, there's no way a new rail line would be built now, without being fully grade-separated. I read somewhere that Brightline in Florida has something like 116 level crossings - with the inevitable collisions that result from having level crossings in built-up areas.

[@everything.trains]

The line was a Santa Fe/BNSF line but only from San Bernardino - just before San Bernardino Tippecanoe. Past that the line was dormant.

[@simont6337]

@everything.trains OK thanks. Regarding the number of level crossings (a.k.a. grade crossings) on the Arrow Line, the answer is apparently 24.

[@TheMowsefan]

In addition to the six numbered classes, FRA (Federal Railroad Administration) track standards also provide for something called “excepted” track, which carries a 10 mph speed limit for freight but cannot be used by revenue passenger trains. I suspect this is why they had to rebuild the tracks. The freight trains could creep along at 10 mph, but no passenger trains allowed. Just a guess.

[@gbunny64gbunny]

Last year, I had to go out to Redlands for a business trip. Would arrive there at night. Looking at Google Street view, the Redlands stations looked to be out in the middle of nowhere where I did not want to be at 8 PM. So instead, I exited the Metrolink at San Bernardino downtown, even though I had purchased a Redlands ticket. That downtown station is certainly not very charming at night either, but I just took an Uber to my destination in Redlands instead of taking the Arrow line. They should have just extended the Metrolink.

[@nortonhatfield7312]

Metrolink should extend the 91 line to Temecula and extend the Ventura county line to santa Barbara or fillmore.

[@BenMonares]

I heard that VC Line would extend to Santa Barbara according to Wikipedia but it haven’t been confirmed when it will actually happen

[@kjhuang]

Are there a lot of commuters between SB and L.A. who need more than what Amtrak gives them already?

[@BenMonares]

@@kjhuang there is a San Bernardino line and they can also take Amtrak SW Chief from LA to San Bernardino and vice versa

[@kjhuang]

@@BenMonares Ahhh I was afraid this would happen. By "SB" I meant Santa Barbara, in response to the OP. There are too many "SBs" lol 😅

[@bhuddy1832]

SCAG did a very good study ofi service on and the restoration of the connection to Santa Clarita of the Santa Paula Branch to the Antelope Valley line at Newhall in 2008, and it performed very well in terms of ridership. Studies of rail commute extensions and/or LOSSAN services to Santa Barbara have also shown similar results, if enough "reverse" commute service levels into Santa Barbara from Ventura County can be provided. The whole Coastline could have Brightline level of service frequencies, for about the cost of widening the Ventura Freeway by one lane in each direction from the 170 to the 405 (about $4 billion), and raise some sections to 125 level "HSR" and cut the travel times to under 9 hours for the added cost of rebuilding the 101/405 interchange (another $ 3 billion) and peak weekend travel times to Santa Barbara can now reach well over 3 hours at peak.

[@junkboxxxxxx]

Lots of things are failures but still operating in Cali. As long as the money is there, it goes on. This is true especially for Californian people.

[@AMPProf]

I HAST long live the money pit All hail the Chinese long live Unicorn poop My we Fart in picese

[@certainlycornenel74]

the arrow line should have another track one for northbound the other one for southbound

[@everything.trains]

They have a small double track section however they do have future plans to double track to Redlands - Esri Station.

[@todddammit4628]

@everything.trains I don't understand that station. What was the logic behind it?

[@gabrielperez8864]

The line wasn't dormant. It was a Santa Fe/BNSF dedicated freight line.

[@msgproductions3515]

Up to the 70's. Then they shut down all the fruit packing houses along the track do to the lack of orange groves due to development. I remember seeing palm trees starting to grow in the old track before it was replaced.

[@gabrielperez8864]

@msgproductions3515 they still serviced a couple of grain related facilities until the 90's and a place that received plastic pallets until the 2000's. BNSF still serves a company west of Tippecanoe.

[@lyndakorner2383]

Ill-informed people spreading misinformation is the Internet. Because of constraints in Measure I and in the laws of the Cities of Redlands and San Bernardino, the project could not purchase enough trainsets to provide, in the initial phase, 15-minute headways, which are necessary for any high-quality transitway and for transit-oriented development. Change the laws in order to increase the service frequency.

[@bhuddy1832]

The hydrogen fearmongering really showed a real lack of knowledge and repeated falsehoods currently being peddled by lobbyists for the contractors who want the air agency to "mandate" only expensive railroad electrification schemes to benefit themselves, that he's repeating as "fact". Otherwise, I think he raised a number of good points about the ridership issues.

[@1AngryPanda]

Im not from the area but that a link functions well, it have to be linked in the first place. Use the arrow as low speed train who have a good conection to a faster train ar both ends and somewhere in the middle would help alot. So people can take the faster train until the middle or end and then switch to the arrow to get to the station who is close to the destination. It should be possibel to create a direct connection at sfations with seperate tracks for both lines. So the artow can arrive bevor the fast train and leave after it. Anything in this direction would significant push the usage of the arrow.

[@mmunson]

Better solution is making its own independent rail system like the Blue and Gold line of MTA. Redlands, San Bernardino, Rialto, Fontana

[@traveladventure7745]

Greetings. Lovely video. Full of good info. +1.Happy Holidays.

[@everything.trains]

Happy Holidays to you too!

[@traveladventure7745]

@everything.trains Thanks.

[@algperezjr8639]

Metrolink should extend to Redlands. Use Arrow trains to connect to San Bernardino Airport and Ontario Airport on the side on its own tracks to make it convenient for riders who will take flights out of those airports.

[@KarlDahlquist]

The County's toy train set! It's fun building routes with other people's money.

[@T128Productions]

No surprise there.

[@everything.trains]

Haha!

[@eannamcnamara9338]

The fact that arrow doesn't have a timed transfer to cut the transfer time to just 5 minutes for example baffles me.

[@everything.trains]

Yeah it's ridiculous.

[@leanderhartl9504]

Have you ever thought about higher frequency (15 min) and integrated transfers to Metrolink trains and feeder bus lines? In such a case, Arrow's small trains would be more suitable than Metrolink's 8 double-decker cars + 2 100 tonne locomotive trains. High frequency and convenient transfers are often more attractive than travel speed and direct connections at the expense of the above points. People don't want to wait at a station because they know they could have been driving. You just have to get them moving as quickly as possible (high frequency). It's a kind of psychological trick that people are satisfied as long as there is progress, which makes them more likely to choose the option in which they are moving constantly, even if it would take longer than the other option in which they would have to wait a long time beforehand. Combined with the fact that San Bernardino is a metropolitan area in its own right and probably not all potential passengers would want to travel 1.5 hours to Los Angeles in the morning and back again in the evening, a simple extension of the San Bernardino line with the same hourly frequency that Arrow already has would cause relatively little passenger growth and the 3 trains that go there in the morning and back in the evening are probably enough. More important would be a higher frequency so that you don't have to wait long for a train and quick transfer options to other trains AND buses.

[@everything.trains]

Great point!

[@Thesecret101-te1lm]

Agree with frequency. Can't remember the details but IIRC the psychological factor is something like 2x time waiting at a station/stop, and 1.5x time while in vehicle that isn't moving, as compared to being in a vehicle that is actually moving. The full San Bernadio line all the way to LA Union Station is fully owned by the public sector so no freight company could stop electrification, and at least the majority of the line which isn't in a highway median have enough space to be double tracked. My opinion is that they should double track as much as they can, and maybe squeeze in more passing loops (looks like it might be possible to have one to the east of Cal State LA, and maybe where Del Mar Av connects to the Fast Trak Expressway (but there might be bridge pillars in the way to make it long enough). Also electrify as much as possible. If they do those improvements, the line could have at least a train every 15 minutes on the single track section west of El Monte, and any amount of trains on the rest of the line. A good initial train set for that line would be a bunch of relatively short EMUs, where say four units would be used for trains every 15 minutes all the way to/from Union Station, and single units filling in to have a train every 5 minutes east of El Monte, or maybe every 7½ minutes. Although those trains that would terminate at El Monte would have way lower ridership than those that goes all the way to Union Station, they would make it blatantly clear to the average public that it would be possible to have metro style frequencies on the Metrolink system, which would most likely create public opinion for double tracking to Union Station, even if that means doing unpopular things with the highway. (As a side track re single track: If someone deemed it adequate to have a single track regional rail line, then arguably the toll express highway don't need to operate in both directions at the same time. By only allowing traffic eastwards in the afternoon and westwards in the morning, half of the toll road could be closed and reused as right-of-way for the rail line). Also, if they electrify and generally improve the line, a track connection to Brightline West could allow for Metrolink to have some revenue from track capacity usage by Brightline West. If double tracking includes crossovers at the right places, and/or even go for triple/quad tracking at certain sections, it would be possible to have frequent trains and also have express and all stop services. An express service skipping most minor stations, especially closer to LA Union Station, could most likely beat driving even outside rush hours.

[@sebastianmunera5470]

In my opinion they should extend it to mentone where the former Redlands branch line originally ended

[@todddammit4628]

IMO the answer is the A Line. Somehow that needs to push through that mess in San Bernadino and get to Redlands.

[@carisi2k11]

Try the following they should. Duplication, more trains with hybrid capabilities, add frequency, grade separation, extend the flirt trains route, get rid of the loco hauled crap and extend sidings for freight to earn some extra cash during the 15-30 minute frequency even during the day. If you can't order new stock then atleast make sure there is a train waiting at the transfer station and not coming 40 minutes later. Run the arrow all the way to the main san bernadino station instead would also be a better solution.

[@johndonovan5752]

Thank you for posting this. I had not even heard of the Arrow Line, although I live in southern California. I wonder if the news media has picked up this story.

[@everything.trains]

You’re most welcome, more exciting content coming!

[@Geotpf]

Of course it would have made more sense to just extend the San Bernardino Metrolink Line. That is obvious. However, NIMBYs in Redlands vetoed any regular Metrolink service on this corridor (I'm amazed they are allowed the one train a day), complaining about noise. So it was this or nothing. This also means that you can't easily convert this to standard Metrolink service. It's basically politically impossible. It was also paid for a specific Federal grant that only could be used on projects under $100 million dollars. The estimate of ARROW's cost used for that grant was $99.1 million, so they got their money's worth. The ESRI station was paid for by the ESRI corporation, whose office is located next to it.

[@everything.trains]

True!

[@nortonhatfield7312]

One way to reduce noise is to make the railroad crossing train wistle/horn free.

[@PlasticBubbleCosplay]

Run frequent service aligned with the bus system, and an island platform for easier transfers to Metrolink.

[@everything.trains]

Yes and not 40 minute transfers right? Lol.

[@supertec2023]

I've seen that train go by many times on test drives and I've never seen more than maybe one or two people on it

[@expojam1473]

A solution to the stopping and not picking up anyone is to do what switzerland does for less-dense routes. There’s a request-stop button on the platform that signals to the driver that there are passengers to pick up. If it’s not pressed, no need to stop!

[@User2o2]

One thing I’m confused on from this video is when you say that the Metrolink and Arrow trains are similar in noise levels… The clips clearly show the Metrolink train being louder than the Arrow DMU? I’d also recommend putting a pinned comment or something in the description saying that they’re DMUs not EMUs like you said in the video

[@davidaldinger113]

I say yes to both questions you asked. Sure a one seat ride obviously makes more sense but since they did things the way they did then they should make a massive effort to fix all of the shortcomings that presently exist and then to see how much that drives up ridership and then extend a few regular Metrolink trains out to Redlands. The DMUs can always be moved to provide some kind of service out of LAUS to some shorter service.

[@MartinHoeckerMartinez]

The Arrow train sets are Diesel Multiple Units (DMU) as well as new the fuel cell Zero emission Multiple Units (ZMU) not Electrical Multiple Units (EMU) . In a related note EMU train sets (like those recently put in service by CalTrain in the bay area) with overhead wire would significantly improve Metrolink travel times on the San Bernardino Line overall

[@everything.trains]

Thanks, I must have been thinking about the Caltrain EMUs when I was recording the script haha.

[@MartinHoeckerMartinez]

@everything.trains I wish that Metrolink would get over it's prejudice against EMUs and electrification in general. Here's hoping that the CalTrain EMUs can help dispel their phobia.

[@daveland3183]

How are the fuel cell zero emissions multiple units? I am from the bay area and the EMUs on Caltrain are soooo much better than the diesel trains. Travel time from the 4th a King Station to the Peninsula and San Jose has improved.

[@MartinHoeckerMartinez]

@@daveland3183 ZEMU is the term they (the manufacturer and Metrolink) use. The product of the oxidation reaction in the fuel cell is water. There is zero carbon dioxide emission and no other combustion byproducts (carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides, etc.). It is definitely a marketing term but it means the fuel cell trains meet the highest constraints the California Air Resources Board has, just like EMU vehicles.

[@bearinmind50]

I think you should review the safety data on hydrogen powered trains. I would expect the protections built in would prevent a hydrogen explosion in the event of a serious crash.

[@adolfochaveziii9539]

They should use the extension line to further extend it to Palm Springs, with stops in Calimesa-Yucaipa, Beaumont (by Oak Valley Parkway and 10 freeway or 10 and 60 Freeway interchange), Banning, Morongo Casino, Palm Springs International Airport, and Coachella off Indio Blvd. between Clinton and Monroe.

[@todddammit4628]

They should, but it might cost billions just for the land and imminent domain fights.

[@biazorast]

3:32 Well there is noise becasue the are using the Stadler Flirt DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit). And horns are loud either way. Switching to EMU would have a significant change in noise though. This video is very informative. I never even knew about this line. If they were to have gotten EMU's instead, the noise problem could have been solved. But I guess the main problem is just the inconvenience of the whole thing. Very nice video. And I did here about the FLIRT H2 and thought it was a pretty cool concept. But if they do go through with this, it's going to a service that is not extremely know of, and very little people ride this service. But that Is all in the futures hands. I'm gonna stop typing now.

[@everything.trains]

Thanks for commenting! Yeah not many people know about this line because it’s not popular haha.

[@caleb7612]

I feel like the line is too short to get any good ridership. It needs to extended, like anywhere. East to Yucaipa, completing the original Redlands loop, south to Riverside county, west to the Ontario airport and Pomona, Chino, Montclair, etc. I think it's best use would be to parallel existing Metrolink lines in the IE, using the DMUs as a local service with frequent stops and the regular Metrolink as an express service, creating like a small local network in the IE in conjunction with Metrolink. A big roadblock would be the freight railroads though

[@Roycru]

You didn't mention the long walk between trains at the Downtown San Bernardino station and the lack of any signs directing passengers who are changing to or from the Arrow trains.

[@everything.trains]

That’s a good point I forgot. Thanks for commenting.

[@kjhuang]

It's probably a pipe dream, but at this point the best course of action going forward is to treat Arrow as a separate IE-specific light rail service that just connects to Metrolink in SB, and build it out accordingly. The current Arrow line can be the starting point of a larger rail network that goes all over the IE.

[@jasonalperin9414]

Well there has been a proposal to run a daily passenger service from LAUS to Indio and Coachella except UPRR has demanded so much for imrovements,triple tracking etc!

[@jasonalperin9414]

And the proposed service would have 2 round trips,which would be feasible considering the only other service in the Coachella valley is Amtraks Sunset Limited which operates 3 days a week and in the middle of the night!

[@kjhuang]

@@jasonalperin9414 I'm all for that line but I imagine it wouldn't do much for getting around _within_ the IE. So Arrow as a system specifically for the IE would still be needed.

[@joeyscleaningladys]

they need to increase frequency between IE and Orange County that is where the traffic is not between redlands and san bernardino. There should be lines running every 20 mins between i.e. and oc to reduce 91 freeway congestion.

[@qjtvaddict]

The extension of the metrolink would still require the Redlands infrastructure as the route was washed out decades ago otherwise no extension of metrolink

[@ttopero]

Turning the Arrow line into a semi-private corporate line during lunch didnt help with connections to the S/B line either. Fortunately I wanted to walk around downtown Redlands anyway, but seriously! It’s time to expand the DMU to the rest of the line-that’s not the problem. But I do like the quieter operating of the FLIRT

[@LDTV22OfficialChannel]

What you said was literally what I initially thought because Arrow is simply just a filler

[@Randoman35]

It's almost as if building a new separate line to extend an existing line is a ridiculous, stupid, pointless idea. While we're at it, why don't we just split the line at El Monte, Upland, Rancho Cucamonga, and Rialto, build pairs of separate platforms at all those stations, run separate trains back and forth on each segment, and make passengers ride five different trains between LA and Redlands? That sounds no more stupid.

[@flyingjew2994]

I remember watching it get built. It looked like a toy that came out of a box.

[@mattsmocs3281]

Based on what I can see the problem is, everyone thinks light rail or heavy rail when this is a case of a interurban being needed the Norristown high speed line is a pretty OK at least trying to continue to be the same way in urban operation to take from example it doesn't stop at empty platforms. It only stops if you request or if they see a person on the platform and the areas where does do transfers they make sure that the transfers are on time as well. They don't dwell too long at the platform, trains are consistently going back-and-forth at a reasonable rate of speed, not spending too much time on each side, except for where they might meet which they could do with Metrolink actually being on time and the arrow train also making sure it stays with a certain amount of time following a loose enough schedule where it'll be at those spots around that time, but still being frequent enough and not being slow down enough where it can arrive slightly early at the other end wait till it's leave timeand then do the same thing, but I doubt they would do such a advanced form of operating

[@AMPProf]

Actually It's about how fast we can Fake are way to more cars.. We could just cry again but california too dry to waste good water

[@Dodgerfan88_]

0:49 there’s the problem. San Bernardino to Redlands? We need some connection to Ontario and Rancho Cucamonga. The train is too isolated

[@tylerroberts1276]

In my opinion, I always found it strange that Metrolink ran a shorter train service from one suburb to another, on a ROW with express service that already connects to the big city. Despite this, the use of DMU's shouldn't be abandoned, as some short-turn trains on the Metrolink system would be better suited for DMU's than the larger double deck commuter trains. Also potential branch lines off of the main network can be well served by DMU's with less concerns for capacity, and safety being less of an issue, as running amongst larger trains will likely be negated. While arrow may have been a failure in this format, a more concise use of these trains across the system would be beneficial for travel in Southern California

[@todddammit4628]

Could the DMU's double as street cars? I'm wondering if down the road there'd be an appetite for that in various parts of Redlands and San Bernardino. Otherwise, yeah, I'd say just extend Metrolink. I'm guessing they'll eventually electrify the whole line anyway so the diesel issue is temporary.

[@russellmcdonaldjr2123]

There is still hope and I think they should've extended the San Bernardino and Inland Empire-Orange County Lines through the area and the big trouble is that some of stations don't have bus connections and the connections from the Arrow Rail Line to the two lines mentioned are impossible.

[@JohnGeorgeBauerBuis]

It might be advisable for some stops to be made flag stops outside of peak travel times, to shorten the trip times.

[@clonecommando-cn6bo]

Instead of a 3-4 car train behind a locomotive it’s another rail bus service. And one that doesn’t have bicycle space

[@erik_griswold]

Run the DMU/ZEMU trainsets to Pomona-North and connect with the Foothill LRT (A-line).

[@stevenk9245]

ARROW trains are for the REDLANDS ONLY

[@todddammit4628]

The A-Line is the solution.

[@normbroel4633]

The arrow should be extended south to Riverside where there is a deficiency of service

[@calleywang6203]

So why don't they have timed transfers at San Bernadino? A 30 minute transfer is wild

[@everything.trains]

Most transfers are timed but still a lot are 30-40 minutes.

[@bhuddy1832]

Given the travel behavior choice model disutility function on transfer and wait times is 3 times the travel "disutility" of the travel time on the train, that is, to the customer, equates to 90 minutes of additional "perceived" travel time. It is something we actually "know" from many years and multiple studies of observed travel behavior. So, the awful ridership on Arrow is not that surprising to those of us who do this kind of work.

[@drdewott9154]

Well I do also think that extending the existing metrolink routes would be the better idea. Youd just have to make sure to add no horn zones and probably stop using that extremely loud bell, seriously whats up with American railroads and that, its like theyre begging for inhospitality. The Arrow trainsets could then maybe be reallocated to other routes under Metrolinx, or perhaps other new branch lines. Either way the current Arrow route just doesnt make sense to run as a separate service. The route is simply too short and requires transfers to an excessive degree. Though Im also wondering how in the world they messed up schedules so bad that passengers would need 40 minute transfers between lines. I'm from Denmark and in a rural area outside the capital but even here all the trains, (with most lines using 2 car trainsets akin to those on the Arrow and Oceanside Sprinter) run every 30 minutes or better. So the fact that a giant metropolitan region like Greater LA doesnt do that is a scandal in itself!

[@thestone30080]

I think it would have been better as an extension of the San Bernardino Line to Redlands just as a one seat ride, not some separate line it just don’t make sense.

[@everything.trains]

Right?!

[@qjtvaddict]

That would still require building the Redlands infrastructure only difference is the equipment

[@stevenk9245]

@@thestone30080 wow. You don’t know what you’re talking about regarding the San Bernardino line. Yes, Metrolink operates 2 around trips to Los Angeles from Redlands during the weekdays

[@gabrielperez8864]

If it doesn't succeed turn it into a tourist line utilizing a local steam locomotive.🤔

[@dennisthebrony2022]

Or maybe they should just transfer those Arrow Trains to NCTD Sprinter's fleet to supplement the Siemens Desiros. Or just extend the Arrow all the way to Highland, close to where I live!

[@telescope497]

As a long time native californian, urban planning in this unorganized, high tax, low services blue state, is a disaster. A pure disaster.

[@Naund32]

In regards to your point about noise levels. DMU and Metrolink locomotives use combustion which generate noise levels that an EMU or ZMU won't. Additionally the US rules regarding train horn use apply to all trains, these rules also inform the use of bells. With the successful use of DMU/EMU's globally I don't see the equipment as the issue (they should've ordered FLIRTs with toilets)I think the problems as with all public infrastructure are more political. Just look at how we arrived at a line called Arrow, or all the things cities/voters don't want in their neighborhoods (noise, no overhead power, station location). The hydrogen fuel concern seem to be an overreaction, we have hydrogen fuel cell vehicles on our roads and I've not heard of anyone stopping hundreds of behind a Hyundai Nexo or Toyota Mirai.

[@nortonhatfield7312]

The coaster should extend a few trains to Escondido and supplement the sprinter.

[@bhuddy1832]

The failure to provide timely connections and less competitive transfer times is a huge problem, as was predicted, by a number of planners. More frequent ML connections are needed. The comments about the safety of H2 vehicles are just plain amazingly ignorant and false.

[@powgames]

The proper choice would be to buy more of these trains, add carriages with toilets and just use them for the whole line to LA. Although we all know that aint happening, so what has to happen is advertisement and dedicated transfers as part of the schedule. And maybe an overhaul to the station signage or even the whole layout, dont know exactly whats going on there.

[@miguelhidalgo9372]

They hired people from grade school to design Metrolink. I can tell EXACTLY what is wrong (ok, 1 opinion). SIGNAGE! For example, the display sign at Buena Park was on a holiday schedule, not a weekly one. Therefore, I decided to go south to get to Santa Ana to take Amtrak back to Union Station. TOO BAD! That particular southbound train took a fork and put me in Corona - 20 minutes later. I had to take an Uber from Corona to the downtown station. Then, a nightly direct bus from Corona to Disneyland. From Disneyland, another bus back to Huntington Beach. All too eZ. NOPE. TOO LATE! 14-mile walk. Metrolink does not have a later evening run! Metrolink has confusing transfers. Metrolink has a whimsical attitude because they eat donuts, have coffee breaks, and gossip around the water cooler all day long!

[@bhuddy1832]

That's quite an interesting diatribe. The fact is that the Arrow was something that was kind of foisted on ML to run, without much involvement in the planning, nor any of the things you point out. I should however point out that lack of service levels by ML on the Perris line also has resulted in lousy ridership. Ridership estimates for both projects assumed higher service levels and better connectivity, and since that is not the current operating scenario, guess what, the ridership is much lower-go figure?

[@U.C.1180]

It’s like they want the subway/railway system to fail because it cuts into their wallet. If more people uses a train the less people are driving meaning less fuel consumption.

[@robertheinrich2994]

I took several rail based transportation services including a train today, but in vienna. I just fail to understand how to fail at setting up a train.

[@darthjohn0]

If it was cheap to buy and own a car, the roads and parking are free, and you can drive 130kph on 12 lane roads, why would you want to take a train? This is what it's like in the US.

[@todddammit4628]

@@darthjohn0 It's cheap to buy a car?

[@PDXLibertarian]

This is almost as bad as Portland's WES train.

[@everything.trains]

Maybe I’ll have to make a video on that lol!

[@franciscocontreras5276]

Should have extended it. I take this quarterly and the transfer is so annoying.

[@mx338]

Hydrogen trains are running just fine and passed all safety regulations here in Germany, why would the US be an exception?

[@bhuddy1832]

Yeah, he seems to be repeating the fearmongering being spread the lobbyists for the contractors who are pushing for the air agencies to "mandate" costly electrification construction schemes to force agencies like this to spend up to $25 million per mile on needless electrification when there are cheaper zero emissions alternatives like H2 fuel cells.

[@DavixDevelop]

Wat the. What was the point of the point of creating a new line for such a short route that is basically just an extension to the San Bernardino line looking at it in the map. So strange. And 40min transfer time? Wat the, transfer times over here in Europe, at least in my country, where the rail sadly isn't up too as compared to other EU members, is around 4 to 10 minutes. Lastly a Stadler FLIRT (over here we have both EMU's and DEMU's, and Stadler Kiss) without toilets. Huh? Even our old old retired DMU from 64 had toilets. What were they thinking ordering them without toilets? Even if it's a short route, you may never know if the train unit will be needed on another longer line in future.

[@fountainvalley100]

Extend the line to Palm Springs and ridership will go up.

[@nortonhatfield7312]

The arrow trains would have more riders if they extend the line to palm springs.

[@everything.trains]

Yeah that could be a good option. The current line is just too short and does not make sense. Extending it around Crafton Hills and beyond to Palm Springs may work.

[@Ponchoed]

​@everything.trains If they do that extend it INTO Palm Springs, not just to that sad Amtrak station in the middle of nowhere outside town by the Interstate.

[@dutchvanderlinde154]

Woah wait your that guy from IG cool video!

[@everything.trains]

Yes I am! Thanks for the support! More exciting content on the way!

[@Ponchoed]

Wasnt it classic California NIMBYs striking again that opposed running normal Metrolink trains due to "the noise"?

[@todddammit4628]

Yup. It's actually a miracle there's even a train in Redlands at all now. They're HARDCORE NIMBY there.

[@bhuddy1832]

No, not really in this case. It was more a case of parochial local politics and the County level tax funding source.

[@AguadillaCGN]

4:25 isnt it a DMU instead of an EMU

[@qjtvaddict]

These are DMUs and they are more reliable than existing fleet on metrolink

[@totsm23]

Hydrogen is not typically greener. Green hydrogen (ie: generated using renewables) is very expensive, and regular hydrogen (usually a by product of petroleum refining), while cheaper than green hydrogen, is vastly more expensive than diesel, and only serves to move emissions to the refinery and not the locomotive. Metrolink's baffling refusal to even consider electrification leads to these dead end experiments.

[@bhuddy1832]

Utter and complete nonsense. But exactly the line of propaganda being spread by the contractor's lobbying the air agencies to "mandate" only costly electrification schemes as the only "zero" emission option to line their own pockets with taxpayer money. Sunline Transit was already running hydrogen fuel cell vehicles and using hythane (hydrogen blended up to 20% with hydrogen) to replace CNG made from water with off peak wind energy in transit buses and fuel cell vehicles in 2003. Why should taxpayers spend up to $25 million per mile to wire up the Arrow, when there is a cheaper zero emissions technology that is less costly?

[@Vektab]

1. Why no electrification of the line? Let me guess, too expensive? 2. Why do American trains look like ugly boxes? Haven't we learned to build sleek and curvy-looking trains like they have in Europe or Asia? I mean, the train looks like it's transporting prisoners, not commuters.

[@free2crow]

Doesn’t really serve any residential communities. No available parking except for Redlands and three university. Missed a great opportunity to extending it on the Santa Fe right away to Mentone and Highland. The San Bernardino station has a parking structure but the Arrow doesn’t serve it.

[@everything.trains]

Right, can you imagine they restored service to Mentone. That’d be awesome.

[@August_Ice]

Metrolink to Redlands, Yucaipa, Calimesa would be great.

[@DesertTony92264]

Extend your heavy rail metro link for direct service

[@djpetesake]

I thought it was failing because they expect people to hang their bikes from the ceiling