Why the C8 Corvette Sucks On Track.. and How We're Fixing It!

[@Thumper68]

I don’t know how y’all have had a channel since 2009 and only have 58k subscribers. Your videos are factual and give alot of knowledge.

[@phillyphil1513]

0:03 - that stance is KILLER...!!! perfect ride height, perfect tuck. observe the precision and attention to detail HERE that's not found in all the other builds seen up to this point. in fact, if you don't have keen eye...? you unfortunately may not even be able to see the difference (even though it's staring you in the face).

[@coreycheatham06]

Your fantastically detailed explanations bring so much into perspective! Keep up the great videos, we all love em!

[@8lakk5unshine]

This guy is very knowledgable and most of us need to be listening to him. I also like the way he always smiles, even when talking about something that sucks :)

[@RaceTeq17]

Long wheelbase + weight + under-tired in the front = doesn't want to turn. Independent of transition tuning with shocks, a bit more rake than OE for roll center coupling plus a smidge of toe-out in the front and minimal toe-in in the rear (even zero), depending on camber settings, really helps the C8 to rotate. Look forward to having OE adjustable sway bars with the upcoming Z06 package. Great video per usual from the MotoIQ guys!

[@bhvrdr]

Great video. Just a point of correction, the stock pilot sport 4S is a summer tire. It comes on the z51. It's also a 305 width not a 325.

[@slfrules1]

Yo!! My man thank you for using that off-set strut nut socket @7:33!!! I've been needing some of them! Didn't think they existed til i seen you flexing that wrenching tech! Doubled down and found the OTC part numbers. Gonna have my own coming come payday. Y'all got all the best tips!

[@BrendanEvan]

This is the exact video I was looking for! Seems like these need a few defined modifications to make them serious track machines!

[@JoseSantiago-hv3xm]

I believe that AP even used these or a form of these AP Brake Calipers on the C8-R at this past weekends 24 Hours of Lemans! Fantastic brakes!! 🤘🏼

[@marketingguy80]

The brakes have some serious stopping power.

[@roddydykes7053]

You’re like Mechanical Stig of the Mighty Car Mods clan, wealth of knowledge, no bullshit, straight to the point teaching

[@stephencarter1442]

You are my automobile Einstein. Nobody has a in depth experience like you I learn so much at 55 amazing technology and you help me stay current. I really appreciate it.

[@boblast5582]

the r888r is not a warm weather only tire, I mean you don't wanna drive it in the snow, but in freezing temps as long as its dry it'll still give you a crap ton more grip than something like a PS4S. The PS4S and other tires in its class actually lose a lot more grip once temps dip below 40°F than most 200tw and below tires do. Same with wet as long as there isn't standing water. I live in the northwest where it rains a lot and I've daily'd the r888r through the rainy winter months, as long as you don't expect to drive through 300 feet of 1" or deeper standing water at 70mph you'll be fine. The only thing the PS4S does better is water evacuation in standing water... in snow both tires are equally useless. also stock rear on the C8 is a 305, not 325.

[@bhvrdr]

It will absolutely not. In freezing conditions the softer compound be ones like hockey pucks. The Michelin still has a bar of rubber in it useable in cold temp.

[@boblast5582]

@@bhvrdr go put both on a 500wtq car and drive it in freezing whether and get back to me. Have you done that? Cause I have…

[@8power0]

THIS IS WHY I LOVE THIS CHANNEL, I TRULY UNDERSTAND HOW THE PARTS WORK AND WHY FROM A ENGINEERS POINT OF VIEW,,, THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@AndreKlebleyev]

What made you choose r888r over a Goodyear supercar 3R? Just curious not sure if it’s because of sponsors or what

[@boblast5582]

maybe price if not sponsored? also despite them both being 100tw, the r888r will last longer. But r888r is definitely one of the least sticky 100tw options currently

[@AndreKlebleyev]

@@boblast5582 yeah I mean he did say it’s not the fastest tire, but I rarely see r888r really used at the track by serious people. Nankang AR1 are cheaper and don’t fall off/get greasy and are proven to be a second faster on average. And supercar3r are prob the best 100tw tire currently. “Best” in terms of relative speed I don’t normally pay attention to life honestly

[@motoiq]

Price mostly, the Goodyears would be better if the cost was not a consideration. Also the ability to run many heat cycles before falling off, Toyo's are good till the tread wears out. Hell, Hooriser A7's FTW!

[@AndreKlebleyev]

@@motoiq I’m in favor of putting A7s on the street corvette 🤣

[@marketingguy80]

@@AndreKlebleyev I regularly run Supercar 3Rs on the car (this is the owner) but will be doing some testing on the R888R too. Looking forward to trying out the 345 rear tire (currently limited to a 325 on the 3R).

[@hungryowl1559]

This channel is very chill

[@douglasmccowen27]

Great video with a lot of good information. Thanks. Quick question: I noticed the small ramps, at the end of your video ( time 11:28), that you use to get the car high enough to use your hydraulic lift and I am wondering what brand they are or maybe where you got them. They look light and easy to use.

[@motoiq]

They are made by discount ramps and they cost under $50 at most places. Race ramps are better but cost way more.

[@gordydexter2615]

Great video and very clear explanation on the enhancement of the shocks and brakes. Thank you for sharing this valuable information!!!

[@noncog1]

Really happy with your videos, thank you

[@jmos96]

Great video!

[@GregKPerry]

Mike, it’s been a few years. Your channel and content are coming along nicely. Hope all is well!

[@motoiq]

Hey, thanks

[@AllIsWell_22]

You guys should get a Manual ZL1/1LE. It comes with DSSV dampers. Tremendous track day hero!

[@boostnboba7658]

If you don’t look at your significant other like this man does after market parts… you ain’t in love

[@anydaynow01]

Awesome updates! Thanks Mike

[@trobertson1825]

It seems like most owners I'm going to track it so the big thing is to change the exhaust really this is a smart video good job

[@heavenhelpus479]

All fantastic mods. Those brakes are the best I've ever seen. Do they have applications for Ford and Mopar platforms as well?

[@motoiq]

Ford for sure, we used one of there kits on our Mustang Project.

[@knighttimestorieslv]

Will we get to see more of Project C8? I'd love to see what else you guys think needs improving on it. Been thinking about getting a base model & modding it to suit rather than buying one with all the factory bells & whistles that I may or may not want.

[@motoiq]

The owner sold it and got a C8 ZO6, Can't say we blame him.

[@knighttimestorieslv]

​@@motoiq Well shoot... I might have to do the same now 😁

[@lucaswarren5947]

Excellent information as usual, love watching it. Maybe a tire comparison later with a Hoosier A7/R7

[@Soravia]

lighter wheel, rotor, caliper can help with tuning suspension damping to be more responsive.

[@GloveBunniesVideos]

Watching you guys work makes me feel lazy. Great job!

[@ZERO-CAPACITANCE]

That was really good

[@Newfielad00]

This channal gonna blow💥

[@charlesshamseldin9555]

Great video Mike 👍👍

[@mathieucossette9019]

Oh!!!! I would like to see how is 0-60 now that There is less weight per wheel!

[@ianheinen1162]

What did you mean by unpredictability on the track did you mean like understeer or oversteer or just the inability to find the cars limits?

[@motoiq]

The electronics interfering with the driver.

[@mark-kf3md]

Hey, It's been months and it would be great to see the on track performance review of the new setup. If I just missed finding it could you please link it?

[@motoiq]

So far the car has run a 1:52 at Buttonwillow 13 cw. That is really fast and 7 seconds a lap faster than stock.

[@jeremyay2218]

Gm needs to give you two new front radiators, they are hammered by rocks already,

[@davids4830]

Most old guys I get stuck behind in corvettes doing 10 mph under the speed limit, "why would you do all that?"

[@youcdtube]

Sir I am buying a c8 with z51 or FE3 only no mag ride and a little concerned. Should I be and are there any good things or advantages about this?

[@MannyDelReal]

This guy is so smart he just doesn’t work with one car he works on all I wish he had more followers you are amazing 🙏

[@Persocondes]

hey Mike any tips on setting up a drift car? I have a yokomo YD-2E

[@motoiq]

I have no idea about RC cars but I was told they are similar to real cars. If it was a real car I would tell you that is a way to general question to be answered.

[@jackweta]

The Vettes did well in LeMan

[@motoiq]

That is not a street car.

[@saeedalnuaimi6194]

Hey, I have an issue with my C8 where the brakes keep making sound on low speed braking the sound comes randomly and the dealer said its the characteristic of the the GM brakes. My question is do you know a way to fix it and is AP Racing brakes make annoying sounds also?

[@motoiq]

Unfortunately your dealer is correct and it is a characteristic of most high performance brakes. You can stop it temporarily by spraying the back of the brake pads with a product like permatex anti squeal but it will eventually come back and it will have to be re applied.

[@gsh3159]

Are the front side radiators all bent up (fins) or does it just look like it on the vid?

[@motoiq]

The fins get bent pretty easy from track rocks and stuff

[@boppernostopper8598]

Have you guys ever compared alcon or another big brand brakes to ap racing calibers? Ive been very commonly told wilwoods are extremely soft and crap for true racecars. AP racing seems super common but reliable

[@boblast5582]

wilwood pads are super soft, which leads to the wilwoods are soft and crap comments. get different brand pads for it and that problem will go away. speaking from experience. The BP10 pads that came with my wilwoods are easily the worst pads I've every used in any car, including the cheapest discounted option at the cheapest discount auto store. That being said these AP calipers are definitely better than anything wilwood has to offer.

[@motoiq]

@@boblast5582 It depends which Wilwoods, they make tons of models and some are very flexy but some are decent. They are no Brembo or AP but for the prices, some of them are great.

[@motoiq]

We have yet to use Alcon but they have a good rep, we tend to use AP, Brembo, and Stoptech for most of our projects.

[@boppernostopper8598]

@@boblast5582 calipers. Not pads im speaking on. Theres multiple people in our track subarus group that have easily warped and cracked wilwoods off a couple sessions.. Thats why i said that, its not some game of telephone. Also i asked MotoIQ for a reason...

[@boppernostopper8598]

@@motoiq thanks for the input! I appreciate it

[@cho.damian]

How much did all of this cost?

[@SuperEman500]

You didn’t mention the Understeer problem.

[@motoiq]

We fixed it in ours

[@paulmarino8810]

How much were those brakes?

[@motoiq]

Google is your friend.

[@erezyoal]

No steel braded break lines ?

[@motoiq]

They are there, look!

[@knation92]

Either you have a bulb or ballast trying to die in the shop or maybe it's LED and the reflection looks like a flicker

[@vertisjohnson219]

Where is your shop located?

[@motoiq]

Gardena, Ca

[@BennyJay3]

What ever happened to Project EP3?

[@motoiq]

It's still here. We just haven't had the time to do the motor.

[@Doucettedon]

How did you keep the car from complaining about the aftermarket shocks?

[@motoiq]

KW makes these plug-in modules that come with the kit that prevent that.

[@aaronbryan5095]

I didn't know the stock suspension setup on the C8 was that soft.

[@mikaelgaiason688]

It's made for fat old people

[@45auto82]

@@mikaelgaiason688 Yup…those like me who have really bad backs too! Potholes and bumps are the main enemy plus I probly won’t ever see another track again. At least I still have my hair tho!

[@nyplantings2420]

At least our generation did not typically live with parents until 29 y.o.!

[@altonb93]

Its made to appease the retired folks that just drive it to the golf course and back once a week😂

[@jap322]

Is that rotor on the right side ?

[@motoiq]

yes

[@jap322]

@@motoiq cool. I thought on AP brakes the “C” had to to face the other way due to how the cooling vanes are designed ..

[@Soravia]

road car pads just can't take the heat. The quiet pads are not designed for heat on track use.

[@gen1c8rs88]

Stock tire widths are 245 and 305, not 255 and 325. 245/305, a 60mm(2.5 inch wheel width stagger) tire width stagger is stock, a 265 and a 345 tire width stagger is a 80mm(3.5 inch wheel width stagger) difference, thier will be more understeer not less, just that the 265's will alow for higher forces before there is understeer. Should of gone with 275/35r19 on 10's and 325/30r20 on 12's: a 50mm tire width stagger with a 2 inch wheel width stagger. In comparison to a front-mid engine/rear wheel drive wide body C7 a 315/345 or 30mm tire width stagger is popular, the C7.R has 300mm(tread width not tire width) front and 310mm rear tires, but Michelin lists the slicks at 292mm and 320mm approximately a 30mm tire width stagger. A 718 Cayman GT4 has a 50mm tire width stagger, the Ferrari Challange cars have had a 50mm tire width stagger(60mm is stock).

[@marketingguy80]

As setup, the car does have a little oversteer. The 345s can be tuned to neutral.

[@gen1c8rs88]

@@marketingguy80 In another comment you said you haven't tried R888R's yet, haven't tried 345 yet only 325. I know about suspention adjustment, tire pressure adjustment, alignment adjustment. Going to extremes to correct flaws is fooling yourself. If the 345 are on 12 inch wide wheels you are only geting a 325 rated size contact patch width, if it the proper 13 inch wide wheel with 265's on a 9.5 inch wide wheel thier will be understeer. Over steer is posible, a 265/345 setup if one forces the C8 to oversteer or entry under steer exit over steer(like a 991.1 GT3 RS). The absolute minimum for a mid engined track car is a 70mm tire width stagger or 275 on 10's and 345's 13's. A 991.2 GT2 RS that was a 935 tribute car made by Porsche has a 11.5 inch width front wheel and and a 13 inch width rear wheel implying a 40mm(1.6inch) tire width stagger as a rear not mid engined race car(not mid engined like the current 911 RSR). With extreme down force(car has to be going fast) and without sweeping corners, or area were you can't trail brake a 70mm tire width stagger and a 3 inch wheel will barely work(McLaren Senna). You can not make rear tires neutral, they will always have grip, only the perportions of grip front and rear. Also R888R are famous for heat cycling out faster vs the Nitto NT01, Nankang AR-1, and Goodyear Supercar 3R.

[@georgioocean7629]

Got to be more than one reason because if people are buying this car is there turning around and selling them and they’re not selling them for profit

[@LeadDevelopAchieve]

what wheels are on the c8

[@motoiq]

Forgeline

[@cnknguyen]

hi mike.

[@jonsingle1614]

So where can I get a C8 with all this already installed !?

[@motoiq]

You can bring us yours.

[@jonsingle1614]

@@motoiq I have a C0 right now....I will have to save up to a 8 !!

[@sepg5084]

@@jonsingle1614 badum tsssss

[@nyplantings2420]

Nice! Alls good except the "sucks" in the title. Thanks!

[@kennethelliott5985]

Wish you can tune up a ford GT

[@EJ257IHI]

So a brand new C8 comes with shitty brakes and suspension that isn’t suitable for track….how much does this car cost again?

[@motoiq]

Shitty is relative, but not optimal for the track for sure. However very few expensive cars are also great track cars bone stock.

[@SuperEman500]

$90,000 to $100,000

[@altonb93]

Under 60K and regular drivers will never outperform the stock parts. Only experienced drivers will have the need to upgrade parts and thats with any car. People will exceed the limits of higher priced cars and still need to go to aftermarket parts. For the price of the car its a good deal all around for what its capable of.

[@cotto22]

Can I add the Essex Racing AP brake kit to my 2022 Corvette C8 Coupe (non-Z51). I don't intend on tracking the car, but I like a solid better braking system.

[@motoiq]

Yes you can and it's a wonderful system with great street feel.

[@cotto22]

@@motoiq What about If I have custom 3 piece forged wheels by Variant Alloy(model FCK-3P+)? Wheel sizes are 20x9 with offset are 34 or 36 in front, and 20x11 with offset 44 in the rear.

[@cotto22]

can you provide a rough quote and is there a specific model numbers for the AP system for my C8?

[@cotto22]

I have 2 sets of wheels...the OEM wheels and the Custom wheels I mentioned above.

[@tjwreds1]

If you're not writing it down, it's not science. Please do lap times before and after mods so we can see the gains.

[@motoiq]

Buttonwillow CW13 standard NA time attack configuration, before- 1:56, after- 1:52 under bad conditions (hot, windy, track greasy) can probably go under 1:50 with ideal conditions. A sizeable improvement.

[@tjwreds1]

@@motoiq Always including these kinds of things in the future would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for the info. :)

[@eric1138]

@@tjwreds1 Agreed. There is no bragging without a good baseline.

[@racekar80]

KW coil overs are street shocks, they will be garbage after a few track days.

[@motoiq]

Oh god no they will not!

[@racekar80]

@@motoiq they are absolutely not race spec, or track day ready. JRZ, Ohlins, Motons are what you use for the track. I have personally seen KW systems destroyed after, leaking badly, with no rebound or compression left after two track days. Only the top line KW is suitable for track duty, and at their price there is much better choices.

[@whitecometify]

Jrz

[@motoiq]

@@racekar80 do you know the prior history of the shocks? We have personally used KW V3 and Clubsports for years on the track with no issues. We feel that they are one of the best shocks at that price point. Equivalent JRZ, Ohlins, and Moton are a higher price point. The lower-priced units that cost about the same from those companies are only single adjustable. Anything wears out and breaks, we have had failures with JRZ and Motons before and have had circuit cross bleed issues as well, it doesn't mean they are bad, just that valve combination was and we didn't know the failed shocks prior history. We sent them back and had them rebuilt and re-valved and they were fine. Our VA STI street class time attack car uses KW Clubsports to good effect with no issues and that is a track only car.

[@davidmccauley4781]

To improve track performance the chassis needs to be stiffened, like Speedway Composites Chassis X Strut Brace, huge gains in lap times.

[@joelpierce3940]

So you should probably buy the cheapest C8 Corvette, and upgrade with those parts. My C7 ZO6 brakes are great on the track.

[@stefanstecyk8725]

Remember Its just the base model.

[@motoiq]

Actually its a Z51 performance package.

[@8lakk5unshine]

@@motoiq 😮

[@trumanhw]

CALIPERS ... not rotor mass (thermal capacity) held it back !? I realize you changed the rotors ... but the rotors are probably a fraction the price of the calipers (and believe rotors with more thermal mass can probably be used on OEM calipers) ... that's what the cheapskate in me would rather see; because those rotors shouldn't be more than $200ea at most ... and I wouldn't be surprised if that ultra special AP brake "kit" was over a couple grand. Ultimately, to compare things in a fair manner ... replace just the tires, test the braking. Then replace just the rotors, test the braking and resistance to fade. Then replace the calipers + pads last ... see how much a difference the extra pistons make. The coil overs will of course give you better track tuning, but at the expense of being able to tune it on the fly...so for track, I understand. I used to use A032 (which limited me to 17" wheels with a DOT of 70 I think) ... very stick. They hummed to where I knew how fast I was going by just the tires. On concrete, once up to temp, they'd roll out tire prints as if they were being fingerprinted. And on damp surfaces, they got better traction than my stock Michelin Pilots got _dry._ Sure, the rears only lasted 5500 miles ... but they were also less than $100 each (and that was with me driving like a hooligan). The fonts got about 11k miles ... and again, they only came with 1/4" new. It's really nice to see you can get STICKY tires in sizes larger than 17" ... but: They also cost a fortune for tires with sub-100 DOT ratings. R888R - $400 each ... (maybe more) Pilot SC 2 ... $500+ ... (obviously we're talking 275+ in size) GONE are the days of SUB-$100 high performance tires (if you could deal w 17" -- A032R

[@95814]

Lapel mic for Mike.

[@Jesusprayerwarriorbw]

So, I watch Speed Phenom and he doesn't have the same gripes and he tracks his all the time.🤔

[@motoiq]

Well those issues are what we found on the tracks we used, Cal Speedway and Streets of Willow, different tracks have different demands. Different driving styles and skill levels make for different demands on the cars as well. It looks like he cooked the brakes bad as well. kzbin.info/www/bejne/mHmopJxrfayWkLM

[@gordydexter2615]

I drove the C8 (Z51) at VIR. I was shocked at how bad it was to drive. I have years of experience on the track in Corvettes & Porsches. I am waiting for the ZO6 reveal on 26 Oct. After such disappointing performance on the track I stopped my order on the HTC C8. Plus the C8 is 3655 lbs. in the coupe & add 70 more pounds for the convertible @ 3725 lbs. This is hideous and kills track performance. My C6 ZO6 weighs ~~3100 pounds. My 2013 Convertible 427 weighs 3460. If the C8 ZO6 comes in over 3500 lbs. I will cancel my order and get another Porsche.

[@marketingguy80]

@@gordydexter2615 track alignment and tires make a BIG difference in how this car performs.

[@GuamanianHarmonLoop]

Actually, it doesn't suck but maybe your driving does.

[@motoiq]

1:52 around Buttonwillow 13CW, you tell us?

[@TougeMonSter3]

It is automatic. There now you do not have to watch the whole video.

[@motoiq]

It is not an automatic, its a twin clutch computer controlled manual transmission.

[@joel9873]

@@motoiq People like to comment that don't have clue.

[@aoewinner9445]

dude is clearly stoned

[@mikaelgaiason688]

Because it's American, and you're buying something, anything, foreign.

[@DadsDriveway]

You know crap about the C8 or how to drive it. Speed Phenom had none of the issues you mention.

[@rahenry00]

It's science. Different variables determine results.

[@motoiq]

Maybe its because we drive it hard enough to have those issues and we know how to fix them, wink.

[@motoiq]

Actually, Speed Phenom had the exact same issues. kzbin.info/www/bejne/mHmopJxrfayWkLM

[@motoiq]

1:52 around Buttonwillow 13 CW. I guess we don't know crap about the C8 and how to drive it.

[@mcbat8]

@@motoiq do you have video of the lap? I can't find it on your channel.