Why the Free Jaffa Nation all but Failed

[@VampireNewl]

The Free Jaffa is one of the earliest example I remember watching where politics was applied to a space empire, not everyone agrees on goals or methods, destroying the bad guys didn't fix everything, there isn't automatic unity between the "good guys" ect...

[@TheOriginalsadistyx]

The Jaffa had no idea how to be free, let alone how to form a functioning government. What made it worse was they actively did not want help doing so. Jack saw the problem early on when Imhotep posed as a free Jaffa. The Jaffa as a whole were easily manipulated from within and resistant to outside help.

[@tompearce5418]

And, as Ba'al pointed out, they were raised to be a highly disciplined military culture dependent on their theocratic masters and centred around the life cycle of symbiotes. When he volunteered to lead them against the Ori as their selfless benefactor the laughter from Dakara could probably be heard in Atlantis.

[@sg-24]

@tompearce5418 I mean volunteered is a strong word.

[@IronWarhorsesFun]

Literally how they were made by the Go'uld

[@knghtbrd]

The Free Jaffa Nation were always evidence that ending the big bad threat didn't mean everything was good now. What happens after the revolution is just as important as winning the revolution. And missteps are more common than solid ground, it turns out. It'd be good to see the Jaffa come to build a strong nation. Or have built by now, perhaps? Though I'd like to see it come to be. I do miss Ba'al. Rest in peace, Cliff Simon.

[@JounLord1]

Thats a good point though I feel it misses a point too. Just because the big bad threat is dead doesn't mean the people that served him are automatically good. The Jaffa were slave soldiers but many truly believed in what they were doing, serving their gods and oppressing people. Just because their gods proved to be false doesn't mean suddenly the Jaffa are all good, still may have been happy to oppress people (I wonder what happened with the human populations of Jaffa controlled worlds). Building a nation from the various groups including with leaders who may have been just as bad as their former masters would be tough. I can imagine some Jaffa like the leader of the slave camp in the Free Jaffa nation, he cruelty and evil nature is not going to suddenly switch to god because he is free. I'm sure there was plenty just like him too.

[@jack413man]

One big that made it fail were the leaders. Garak was swayed by the Ori, knowing what all Jaffa went through by the goauld, and tried to force origin on all jaffa. What led to the destruction of Dakara was the leader using the ancient weapon. He was mistrusting and paranoid that anyone not Jaffa is not to be trusted and would turn against the free jaffa. No one stopped him but the Ori.

[@jupamoers]

The Jaffa Nation has the same problem as the Goa'uld had...pride. And added to that is prejudice (that is seen in their treatment of Teal'c, who started it all) ... The Jaffa Nation is too proud to take some advice from a democratic society like the Tau'ri. They want to figure things out by themselves. That's where they will ultimately fail in the end. The Jaffa were influenced by the Goa'uld for too long, so they don't have a better example how to build a society

[@qwefg3]

I think the growing pains and troubles of trying to fix the galaxy after the last big major villain dying would have been more interesting than... the Ori. Not only because I think the Ori were the worst written villains (They can do space magic and make a town of medieval blacksmiths age technology build a star ships... and then Ori space magic to fix all of the parts that shouldn't work before saying 'totally not cheating' as they send it to the milky galaxy.) I think they had enough things to play with. The struggles of the Jaffa nation and how some were still falling to their old ways of life only this time creating war in conflict for their own self interest rather than the goa'uld. The Lucian Alliance were you had human criminals in stolen ships trying to carve up their spot in the galaxy while the power void is ripe for the taking. Then throw in a dash of goa'uld trying to reclaim their lost power and maybe even start being forced to work together to stop all of these upstart nations from trying to overthrow them. You could even get another goa'uld to work up and build up the ranks becoming their own big bad. It was a shame with the interesting idea and concept they had... simply boiled down to 'bad space magic people' coming in and kicking down a lot of the stuff and replaying the role of the goa'uld from the early seasons... expect they had space magic with some advanced psionic humans rather some random bits of advanced technology to pretend they had space magic.

[@DarkVeghetta]

Pretty much this. As someone who loves hard sci-fi, galactic politics with a dash of war would have been far more interesting than... brainwashing evil space wizards.

[@mm650]

You forget economics. The Goauld economy was essentially feudal: Slaves working at basic manual labor to produce raw materials in what could only have been an incredibly inefficient way. Those raw materials were then fed into advanced, seemingly automated assembly and refinement capabilities. The Goauld had to organize this way because they didn't trust any of the slaves with advanced tools and the education to use it. Unfortunately, the Free Jafa nation inherited this technological and economic base. Further, what strength it has is based upon a military base that is designed to be fed by that feudal/automated industrial base. This means they are essentially locked in... any attempt to transition to a high-skilled industrial capitalist system will require a transition period which will be ill-suited to maintain their military posture. Assistance from the Tauri might help shorten that transition and mitigate the peak weakness they would experience during it, but that would presume that they trusted the Tauri and were willing to harmonize their security interests with them.

[@robkemp598]

One part of the problem is education, alot of Jaffa know how to use Gou'ld technology but not how it works, how to repair it or how to innovative. This was done intentionally to them by the Gou'ld to prevent them realising the Gou'ld were not gods. I don't know if the Tok'ra ever managed to get a new Queen but if they had my solution would be to use to Tok'ra to teach young Jaffa children while the FJN provides them with protection. I'd also have the Tok'ra help them innovate and grow their technology, maybe by building an Apohois Mothership (Sam mentioned the Tok'ra had the specs for it) and upgrading it with Ancient/Ori tech

[@Ragitsu]

The good kin of the Goa'uld helping to uplift the Jaffa...that's beautiful.

[@jonreese7066]

The Tokra could have captured Baal’s cloning tech

[@seand.g423]

Honestly, problem with trying to push the Tok'ra angle would be the FJN worrying about the Tok'ra deteriorating into a repeat.

[@sg-24]

@Dean D.G it took me a good second to know what FJN stood for. I like that abbreviation.

[@matthew8153]

@@jonreese7066 Or gotten clowning from the Asgard before the mass suicide.

[@Daedalus-BC308]

Also it didn't help that Gerak tried to convert all Jaffa to Origin, although he came around in the end.

[@TonyAnnechino]

The Jaffa need to understand the value of education in support of a true democracy. They need to learn to let all voices be heard, while protecting those who suffer from traditional prejudices. Help them to learn to communicate openly and calmly with others with whom they differ, and try to understand that, while their freedom is new, they do not own a monopoly on struggle or suffering.

[@axdntprn]

Really doesn't help that every few episodes the rebel jaffa leaders got wiped out. That'd be a serious brain drain for any group. The goa uld, the symbiote poison betrayals etc.

[@robkemp598]

Oh yeah, Bratac was the only stable leader they had as the writers/fans liked him. Once he dies who would the Jaffa look to?

[@ush2177]

I always felt Teal'c never got much respect from the free Jaffa. He was the original shol'va after all.

[@sg-24]

@Ush you know what you are not wrong now that I think about it.

[@cchavezjr7]

For the longest time, he was hated because of it and it's hard to let that go, even if you follow the same path.

[@sg-24]

@cchavezjr7 that was sad…and beautiful.

[@ush2177]

@@sg-24I think its to do with the arrogance of the Jaffa. Like they never seemed to respect the Taur'i ether after they were free. Even though Earth was solely responsible for freeing the Jaffa. They clearly believe they did it themselves and earth was trying to control them and because Teal'c was with them he got hate to.

[@KingOfMadCows]

The Jaffa do have a very cynical view of the universe. They saw how every great power was pretty self interested and hoarded knowledge and technology. Even supposed "good" races like the Asgard and Ancients really only intervened when their own interests were threatened. And despite all earth did to overthrow the Goa'uld and Ori, you can't really deny that it was mainly because earth was trying to protect itself. And the cynicism is compounded by the fact that the different Jaffa factions were at war with each other just a few years before they were freed.

[@IronWarhorsesFun]

The Jaffa were doomed from the start, the TERRAN EMPIRE shall be the beacon of hope against the darkness.

[@Revkor]

I am now imagining a BC 304 with the earth dagger logo painted in gold on it

[@DarkVeghetta]

This is what I _wanted_ to happen, but it was obvious the writers didn't have my inclinations so instead we got a lot of floundering about and... evil space wizards.

[@westenev]

Everyone wants freedom from oppression, but very few people think about what comes after oppression. Freedom is a very short sighted goal.

[@DarkVeghetta]

Usually urban famine comes after freedom from oppression due to rule of law breaking down, which impacts logistical chains. Power and water shortages are probably also common. Then a civil war or two and eventually something more stable forms. With a few rare exceptions, that's how it often goes. If anything, the JFN was lucky that a large part of their population was not yet urbanized and their warrior culture stopped the brunt of the effects of the rule of law temporarily breaking down.

[@poslednisoud]

I find it hilarous how culturally the Jaffa are this warrior caste so proud of their martial tradition while practically being portrayed as useless cannon fodder with no tactical skills, armor that does nothing except making it harder to sneak or walk silently and tendency to charge into the line of fire instead of using their ranged weapons from affar. Writing this, I just realized they are stormtrooper.

[@the11382]

I speculated that the Jaffa would eventually be divided among old sect lines, which is ironic. The Hak'tyl are so culturally difference from say Gerak's faction that I don't see them being in the same nation.

[@jasonworlock5113]

The Jaffa, as a whole, suffered from the same issue that the Tok'ra and Goa'uld did, arrogance. Take the episode 'The Warrior' many in the Jaffa resistance at the time were disinterested in using weapons provided by the Tau'ri. Finding them primitive compared to Zats and Staff Weapons until their value was demonstrated. Most of the Goa'uld system lords and their fleet were defeated not by the Jaffa but by another enemy, the replicators, an enemy that could not be defeated with Zats and Staff Weapons. Gerek was a prime example as he acted as if he defeated the Goa'uld single-handedly when all he did was take out the Goa'uld he served, who was a minor Goa'uld, that had a fleet of ships that the Replicators did not capture. The next leader, Se'tak, was just as bad as he believed that using the Dakara superweapon was okay as long as it took out the Ori and wasn't used on a Jaffa world. Human worlds were fair game. Given time they might have been able to bring in a leader who knew what was best for the Jaffa nation but didn't forget that they didn't win their freedom alone.

[@scottvergin4732]

If the Jaffa had access to Star Wars and information on Mandalorians then I can see them definitely following that path

[@ambrusraul2297]

The Jaffa nation sadly reminds me of my ( Romanian nation ) We where enslaved but had a powerful economy during Communism or Socialism it s still a debate . Since 75 all went well then a hunger took place we had money but no food . We saw a puppet we killed a false God and all is in chaos , no leadership and no new moral compass to build new politicians . The infrastructure of socialism didnt change after our freedom , so much so that hunger knocks again and again we must wet dispose of a false god to stop the hunger . The System remains . Concluded in next comment

[@sg-24]

Waited for the next comment, but figured I’d say this now. Thank you for your insight. It’s fascinating to hear how people connect fiction worlds to their own real world life experiences and that of their nations. Also my condolences for your people.

[@ambrusraul2297]

@@sg-24 I didnt miss any important episode of the Jaffa . I saw re runs after re runs and there is no room for error . This is our complete sad history , minus the Ori persecution grant you

[@DarkVeghetta]

As a Romanian that actually saw the fall of communism with his own eyes, I feel I have to clarify the 'hunger' point, disagree with the "hunger knocks again" and "dispose of a false god" bits and add some of my own: 1) That hunger didn't just happen out of thin air. Ceaușescu, our then dear-leader went to North Korea, decided it was a great idea to become a bit of a living god and implement autarky, because the NK parades and social order really impressed him. Problem being that autarchy meant all imports were heavily discouraged if not stopped entirely and the people had to pay off ALL of Romania's debt asap, while the 'living god' bit meant we also had to pay for mega-projects such as the Palace of Parliament at the same time. This inevitably lead to bread lines similar to America's own Great Depression, if not arguably worse. Not dissimilar to how some goa'uld laid the groundwork of their own downfall because of their megalomania. 2) After we executed our dear leader and his wife on TV (I watched it as a 4-year-old when it first aired - uncensored - it was quite something), the infrastructure was still there... until much of it was sold off as scrap in a few years time, lining the pockets of various old communist-era politicians that profited from the chaos and the remnants of their authority. That could have gone better but some of it is still around (notably the buildings, mines, and some of the old agricultural infrastructure). The JFA was lucky in this regard, since I'm pretty sure most of the goa'uld empire infrastructure was still around and likely greatly helped the jaffa maintain a functioning state. 3) The period between '90 and '94 was particularly rough in terms of rule of law (the revolution happened at the very end of '89), but we got through it mostly because of tight familial connections that implicitly promised retribution to anyone that decided to take too much of an advantage of the non-existent rule of law at the time. That said, I remember feeling a noticeable shift in how people walked about immediately post-revolution - always in a hurry, looking over their shoulder, anxious, and quiet as though there were predators about - because there very well might have been. I remember mothers warning their children, those of about my age, about kidnappers (mostly with the intent of selling us abroad or for darker purposes). Still, it could have been much worse. The JFN also got off fairly unscathed in this regard due to their warrior culture, which very likely dissuaded individuals from engaging in a plethora of unlawful activities - from widespread looting to killing sprees. It's hard to oversell how valuable social structures that maintain order are in times of turmoil. 4) The leaders that followed were not 'false gods', simply authoritarian in their own right. If anything, that's part of what actually got us through the 90s without even more turmoil - Romanians needed a strong guiding hand since that's all they knew. We did have an immortal vampire and a cocky sailor as presidents - they at least had guile, charisma and strength. Recent highlights include a living plank of wood that was still a superior choice to the alternatives. Personally, I've voted for Vlad Țepeș on more than one occasion when the other options were somehow worse than a ruler that's been dead for roughly five and a half centuries. I'm willing to bet good money a fair few jaffa missed their old overlords when their new leaders left so much to be desired. 5) Lastly, Romania's doing pretty well these days. We have our issues, but economically we've been steadily improving for decades and socially we're stable. The social stability in particular is much more than can be said about the West and an often-overlooked yet very important factor in nation-building. To bring it back to the JFN, this is the key point they lacked - a unified society that could see them through the worse parts of great sociopolitical upheaval.

[@kungfufundamental1202]

The main issue arises from conflicting visions among leaders, leading to failed government policies. It involves reconciling old cultural norms with new ideals like freedom and democracy, alongside Earth's assistance in their war victory. It is crucial to limit those who oppose peaceful transitions and prioritize military power over education and social programs. Similar to post-WW1, the Allies rectified mistakes post-WW2. The appropriate approach entails positive re-education on morals and ethics, along with a comprehensive rebuilding of the free Jaffa nation from the ground up, allowing for a grace period if necessary. Those who negatively influence their people should be demoted by having their government rank and status stripped away. Earth's leadership bears responsibility for not providing sufficient aid in their transition to democracy after destabilizing their old monarchy dictatorship. Failing to closely monitor and guide the preservation of other races' traditions leads to consequences. Without adequate oversight result will only result in unsatisfactory outcomes when compared to the desired ideal. Excepting a different outcome is delusional. Thats on the macro level, on the micro level: human nature without self control tend to moving toward greed for capital money, political power control and taking advantage of others.

[@sg-24]

This is weirdly kind of relevant to the video I am working on right now.

[@resiplayerz]

It's realistic that the JFN would fail. In our real world when you remove dictators without preparing a new system of government first warlords, terrorists or new dictators simply fill the vacuum such as what happened in Iraq etc. It's also why it was the right move by the writers to destroy the Dakara superweapon. Another point to consider would be blood feuds the Jaffa were never one unified people but different groups serving different gouald and as such had spent centuries murdering and fighting each other.

[@ambrusraul2297]

@SG-24 i am watching the intergalactic kassa corn episode right now and im loving it

[@sg-24]

Corn… the greatest evil in the universe.

[@bloodysimile4893]

The American Revolution is one of the rare case were the "rebels" actually created a nation they were working toward without falling into anachry. It more normal a country build after a rebellion fall apart into more civil war and choas and often worst. One of the smartest thing George bush senior after the gulf war was letting Sadnate stay in charge of Iraq, cause he knew how to rule in that part of world. Trying to force another government system often leds to more trouble then it worth. For the Jaffe, they didn't chose to peruse freedom until the opportunity was presented to them with Goul la leadership falling apart by constant warfare from both outside (Earth, Ansgar, tok' ar replicate) and inside (betrayal, Soktar army and Anbuis returns) Everyone smelled blood in the water and it was snake head blood they smelled.

[@battlesheep2552]

What's important is that with the American Revolution, they didn't get it right at the first try. They tried one system of government, and it didn't require a civil war for the people in charge to realize it just didn't work and created a second.

[@RTrades158]

Really enjoy your videos! Also it's worth mentioning that you shouldn't need to speed up 30 second clips. As long as you're talking over the course of the video it's transformative enough

[@sg-24]

That's true so long as I am talking over the clip, but the second I let it play the timer is on. I posted something a while back that was just 8 and a half seconds long, but since it's longer than 8 seconds it was copyrighted.

[@madelinelove5150]

@@sg-24 According to copyright law it would still fall under free use, at least in the US.

[@sg-24]

@@madelinelove5150 maybe, but I think there in lines the problem. Copyright laws are not universal, some something legal in the US may not be in other counites. And combine this with certain media groups in other countries (though ones in the US do this too) who use this to make bogus copyright claims. Ones that YT often won't do anything about until most of the ad revenue is gone.

[@madelinelove5150]

@@sg-24 fair tbh

[@adambarnes49]

The Jaffa wouldn't just go round attacking random people ( so they are better in that aspect) but if there was something that they wanted to do and either the tauri or something else tried to change their plan, or suggest another solution the Jaffa just saw this as a threat and an insult and would have no issue trying to destroy them

[@thetrainhopper8992]

I personally think from a practical stance, the Jaffa would have reestablished power over their former masters dominions rather than form one unified nation. It would also be more interesting to show 20 or so smaller Jaffa dominions ruling over various human worlds with different points of view. One end being the Haktyl or Chulak having a more progressive view to more traditional views like Gerak. And the Jaffa Nation being one or two lose military alliances between traditional and progressive groups vying for influence. Or whatever happened to Arkad’s group. Ori or not, they would still be a group with reasons to exist beyond the Ori. Maybe have them create a new governing philosophy and have them be an allegory for space communism? Would be different than a fight over religion. Also sorry for comment bombing, just found the channel.

[@sg-24]

No problem. I’ve loved reading you comments. Very insightful.

[@Peter09876-]

Great video!

[@lexielyons5739]

I think the Jaffa would have benefited from two houses of legislation. One house being compromised of representatives from each world and another from people in traditional leadership roles.

[@sg-24]

That would be an interesting compromise. Would also be cool to see a faction with two houses instead of just the basic council almost every faction in Stargate has.

[@qliphalpuzzle5453]

They would need to have a decently complex system since even tho Jaffa have a common baseline also have vastly different traditions and perspectives, like states in the US. I’d love to see how this system would resolve the conflict with the vast views on gender roles for these worlds. If not maybe more federated as the Jaffa Nation has a certain level of stabilization.

[@jonreese7066]

If the Ori crusade didn’t happen, I think the free Jaffa would never have become a democracy more likely they have become a copy of the Goauld empire with the free Jaffa nation ruling over several enslaved human worlds used as labor and with leaders that live for hundreds of years. They wont change. Might makes right is the only thing they know. With a the Dakara superweapon they were the mightiest. With a society focused on military assets they would need to enslave other races to farm, mine even basic ship maintenance It would have resulted in either a civil war or war with Earth. The Ori beating the military faction probably paved the way for a more democratic system. 1 cleared away the old guard 2. No superweapon 3. A diminished military They got humbled.

[@peterkubala9279]

Keď tak nad tým rozmýšľam tak mas pravdu , Jaffa mali priliš veľa arogancie a pýchy . Rozhodne nepomohlo to že vedeli len bojovat a o vsetko ostatne sa starali len otroci , celá kultúta bola založena a odvýjala sa takto.

[@peterkubala9279]

When I think about it, you are right, the Jaffa had too much arrogance and pride. It certainly didn't help that they only knew how to fight and only slaves took care of everything else, the whole cult was founded and developed like this.

[@DKNguyen3.1415]

"And those who are prideful and refuse to bow down, shall be laid low and made into dust"

[@lylelaney8270]

Jaffa were basically barbarians with guns. Most of them believe goa'uld techs were magic. They could fix basic stuff but no more because the goa'uld never let them have the knowledge. They didn't build any of the ships or could so it's safe to say they didn't do the maintenance either. Once everything was gone they'll be back to stone age.

[@adambarnes49]

Yeah I definitely agree that while the Jaffa aren't as bad as the gouald, they weren't trying to conquer the galaxy but they almost always took the aggressive solution to any problem they faced. They also wanted to be more independent from other races (which isn't necessarily a bad thing ) but the only reason they where able to get to where they are now is because they had help. The tauri played a major in this but they didn't do it on their own, the Jaffa only seem to trust their own opinion which in this case is just to destroy any threat they come across instead of them either finding or being willing to listen to another solution.

[@thebigdork8030]

It's also hard being the "proud warrior race" guys when you neighbours to late series earth. It's like being an interstellar chihuahua.

[@Herstal8389]

I like the Free Jaffa Nation and seeing them build their society from their backwards yet advanced state to a Modern superpower would be so great to watch, If we ever do get more Stargate a whole show centered around the Free Jaffa Nation and its rise to modernity would be great, Definently with a mix of political intrigue and maybe some straight up civil war between Modernists and Traditionalists

[@aaron9797]

wow its been so long i dont remember half of this

[@DarthTriffid]

The Jaffa's biggest problem is that they're so used to following orders they dont lnow what it takes to give them. Even Braytak is a commander, he commands and people obey. He does not lead, where a leader balances the needs of rhe now, with the needs of tomorrow and balances the needs of the bpdy with that of rhe mind and listens to othee voices.

[@johnpotts8308]

Because the one thing that united them was their oppressors. Once that was removed, there was little to keep them united. This is relatively common in our world, where a civil war follows a war of independence (eg. Nigeria, Afghanistan, Ireland)

[@johnsmithfakename8422]

7:32 - A man of culture.

[@cpob2013]

If the new stargate project is a continuation, I think it should mention an offscreen jaffa civil war that erupted and ended in the years between sgu and now. Draw whatever lines and results you want, but there's just too much division and hostility among such a martial people for it not to be inevitable.

[@sg-24]

@Connor O’Brien I’ve put some though into it and I kind of disagree. The Ori Crusade already all but shattered the FJN, for me it seems like it would take them years to recover from that. Maybe make that part of the new SG story. Where those old divisions are rising again and there’s a civil war on the horizon.

[@JoeKawano]

Goa’uld/Jaffa morals were: Egotism is divine. Violence is normative. Mercy is a curse. How we expect to get from that to an inclusive liberal democracy… I cannot even guess. 😮

[@sorcererberoll4641]

I like how realistically over time the Jaffa slowly became too dependant on sgc for just about everything I could see in the future the Jaffa free nation collapses and an earth that knows of the galaxy have to step in and essentially let the Jaffa put themselves back where they were before but by a reluctant choice rather than being enslaved

[@Geminias]

Yeah, the free Jaffa Nation as depicted would crumble and new Jaffa system lords would emerge.

[@SpaceMonkeyTCT]

Another source of contention between the Jaffa themselves and the Tau'ri and Tok'ra was their physical dependence on symbiotes or Tretonin. The ethical issues of using symbiotes, undeniably sentient, as 'medical devices' are vast. Tretonin was considered, and easily could have been, a way for Earth to impose its will on the Jaffa. Even without this or any of the other issues, trying to unite so many people under a single Free Jaffa Nation seems impossible. We can't even unite one planet and they are trying to unite disparate groups of former enemies across an entire galaxy.

[@Revkor]

but I think what would be temporary. Teal'cs son didn't originally have one and only was given one to save is life. while adults will need symbiotes or drugs for the rest of their lives the kids would not

[@DanielJ28]

2:43 what clip is that from just curious.

[@sg-24]

Green Lantern the Animated Series.

[@logannichols5848]

When choosing a form of nation hood I always go to the constitution. There is a 3 way check on all power and we have seen time and time again presidents governors and Congress try and become tyrannical only to be checked by two federal branches and the states or 3 feds vs the state.

[@sg-24]

@Logan Nichols see now I wonder if the FJN was a federal state or unitary one?

[@calebwyman5510]

The or I may be dead, and many of the people might have left the religion, but the idea that everyone worship the RRI is completely gone may not be 100% true. Let’s see what they do with the revamp.

[@mrbojangles8133]

nation building is hard

[@sg-24]

Very true, very true.

[@Jagent]

The problem with democratic rule is that it cannot be imposed on a culture. It has to be something they strive for themselves, otherwise you get Afghanistan. And pure majority rule is nightmarish for a whole host of reasons. Ultimately, the Free Jaffa Nation didn't have a unifying culture, or identity. They would probably have been better off either with a federalist approach with a very small overstate to mediate intranational disputes, or as totally separate nations.

[@SoullessAIMusic]

So...Basically the native americans during the Western era.

[@tompearce5418]

Problem: the Jaffa had no idea how to build or maintain the technology they seized from the Goa'uld. Without assistance from the Tauri and the Tokra in this regard their new empire was doomed.

[@ak102986]

I always thought it would be cool to do a Teal'c spinoff, where he is traveling around Free Jaffa Nation, doing his Lawrence of Arabia-thing. However, I also feel a better storyline would have been a Jaffa Civil War, most wars of independence are followed by civil wars.

[@sg-24]

Maybe they could do both. One were Teal’c is traveling around trying to help rebuild the nation, but factionalism results in a civil war that he now finds himself at the center of.

[@ak102986]

@@sg-24 The problem with doing the Civil War, now, is that you would have to figure out what caused it, but I like the idea. So, factionalism exists, in all systems but the Ori Crusade is a unifying event. Hint what caused the conflict post-Ori Crusade. However, my idea for Stargate Poseidon, one of 11 series I have thought about doing, including continuous SG-1 would be set aboard the BC-304 Poseidon, and it will deal with finding an unnamed Galaxy still controlled by the Goa’uld. The real Ba’al had been hiding along with Athena (Goa’uld), Aphrodite (Goa’uld), and Poseidon (Goa’uld) amongst others. These three Goa’uld are older than previous Goa’uld seen and were originally outcasts by the other System Lords. While they still claim to be Gods, they do not enslave their followers, or be cruel in any way. There Jaffa worships them and follows them of their own free will, causing problems between them and the Free Jaffa Nation. They are the nicer version of the Goa’uld. Some want peace and some want war. However, despite disagreeing with Ba’al past actions, he was still one of them and so was given political asylum. This was after the big deal was made over the capture of the last clone and so caused tensions between the Tau'ri, To'kra, and Free Jaffa Nations. When Earth refused to force Ba'al to be sent back to stand trial, it caused a rift between the pro-war Jaffa and the pro-peace Jaffa. The pro-war Jaffa wanted to free their brother, whereas the pro-peace Jaffa argued it was in another galaxy and they were not enslaved by the Goa'uld. There were also elements of prejudice from the Jaffa to the Goa'uld for being Goa'uld which also would create rifts with the To'kra, as the Jaffa looked down on them and humans. One of the ideas, I thought for pre-war was a conflict between the Free Jaffa Nation, a nation of honorable warriors against the Lucian Alliance, replacing the Lucian Alliance-Tau'ri conflict, which I always thought was poorly done. There is also Jaffa who looks down on Teal'c referring to him as the Tau'ri lapdog, since he is using the 304 named after his wife, Drey'auc, and acts as Earth Ambassador but resentment is strong from some of the Jaffas, including some of the female Jaffas who has come to opposed Teal'c. The ship was a "gift" to Teal'c for his service and loyalty to the Tau'ri, given to him by General O'Neill.

[@sg-24]

@ak102986 I love everything about this idea, except one thing Baal. The ended his story in Continuum and honestly I think it’s best left there. Especially since Baal actor, Cliff Simon, sadly died in 2021. Granted they could switch actors, but given SG long history of brining dead characters back some might not like it, as see it as a retcon. But besides that one thing, I like this idea so much.

[@ak102986]

@@sg-24 my replies keep getting deleted. Did you get them in your email by any chance?

[@ak102986]

@@sg-24 So, I am going to break down my response into smaller posts. First, it would be a writing story. However, if I ever did get the chance to do a live-action version, which would be a dream, I would be unsure. I disagree with killing off a character simply or only because the actor or actress who played that character has passed away. The best way to honor them is to continue the story.

[@robertkalinic335]

I dislike the idea that some nation has to be formed, they can form loose Union where each member has its sovereignty preserved with the exception of external relations. Jaffa starfleet or Colonial fleet equivalent will be formed strictly on volunteer basis to defend Union and act as core around which the members fleet would form themselves for united defense. This being temporary until Jaffa sort themselves out, with volunteer professional core i assume the anti tauri and tokra sentiment wouldn't be problem and noone needs lesson every ten minutes about why do they need to work together. That is the optimistic view...the realistic is that Jaffa need to go full war communism with 5 years plans and strong emphasis to catch up to other races until its safe to let their guard down. If Jaffa want to keep their freedom they need to commit to its defense, i cant tell half the time if they are stone age like cmon, you have so much to do. The jaffa unity needs to be built like political movement because to wait until everyone is convinced on their own by consequences of doing nothing, its already too late.

[@Kubinda12345]

Creating a worse political system than those of the Goa'uld takes a lot of talent. The Free Jaffa Nation is a typical example what happens if you give warriors/soldiers too much power. Being a good soldier doesn't make anyone a good administrator which is something that a state needs, especially in its infancy. But the Jaffa never needed that since they were always the soldiers and the administration and governance was done by the Goa'uld. So it's kind of not their fault but they could've at least copy a ruling system from the Goa'uld instead of creating a really bad new one.

[@Rensune]

They (the Jaffa) have literally never governed themselves. I mean, maybe they did Thousands of years ago, before they were turned into Jaffa (back when they were human). But they weren't Jaffa then.

[@sg-24]

And even then that’s thousands of years ago. There’s some lore that some Goa’uld would take humans and make them into Jaffa. But even then, those humans didn’t govern themselves.

[@NATIK001]

The Jaffa had nothing in common but the fact that they had been slaves to the Goa'uld. If one wants evidence of how little that actually meant, one need only consider that there were untold numbers of humans who were also slaves to the Goa'uld and the Jaffa had little to no thought about them when trying to establish their new nation, so their one unifying factor wasn't at all unifying to them. I don't think the Free Jaffa Nation was ever going to be a realistic success, but it also had to be tried to prevent full scale civil war between the emerging Jaffa factions. I think the most realistic solution for actually getting the Jaffa to somewhat unite with less issues was a Jaffa United Nations of sorts. Instead of a central government they needed a central place to discuss affairs, they needed to set up rules of diplomacy and international/interstellar conduct, and they needed a system to balance against military power. A Jaffa United Nations could provide a vehicle for the smaller factions to unite in counterbalance to the stronger factions without giving up sovereignty, instead of the "winner takes all" that the Free Jaffa Nation encouraged with its factional politics. I also think the council of the System Lords was more akin to a UN security council than a proper unified government, they only agreed on very loose laws and the council mainly functioned as a vehicle of diplomacy and power balancing not as a legislature. The Goa'uld Empire post-Ra was only an empire in name, it had no emperor, no central government, no central functions and no unity, it did not even unite in a meaningful sense against external foes, as seen vs the Tau'ri, the Asgard, the Replicators and more. The Free Jaffa Nation was a bad solution to the problems of the Jaffa, but it was also the only viable solution to their problems. The Jaffa were blinded by ideals of unity and power, and failed to see the inherent disunity of their race, and the dangers of united power in periods of uncertainty and instability. My bold prediction for the future of the Jaffa in Stargate is that the Jaffa Nation crumbles and either vanishes or becomes a loose confederation, it can be nothing greater until the Jaffa have time to grow, learn and change, their cultural mindset is not compatible with long term stable and unified governance.

[@sg-24]

Absolutely a great comment.

[@DasIllu]

I think they need a single leader with an outside perspective. Someone familiar with living in symbiosis. Just to make their transition a bit easier. A Tok'ra comes close but they lack the understanding for the need for power. Hmmm... who remains? 😛

[@OttoKreml]

I think that if earth wanted to influence the government of the jaffa, they needed to start before the nation was founded. Otherwise they probably should have simply copied the gould system of government, with reforms that prevented tyranny (which is essentially just another way of saying democratic federation, but framing it differently). The main mistake in forming the jaffa nation was the creation of a single council that held all power. It made seizing power over the whole government ratger trivial. By creating two councils with different interests, or at least different layers of Government, it would have added interest groups that would need to be held in check. At the very least a president should have been established separately from the council. Unitary parliamentary systems honestly just aren't all that stable.

[@mediamass1404]

Hey do we know that Baal is actually dead

[@sg-24]

@Media Mass ⚔️ yes, all Baals were killed off in Continuum.

[@michaelkotcher5491]

If Stargate ever got picked up again (talking to you, Amazon), I’m thinking that the Free Jaffa should become the new enemy. Not mustache-twirling evil, but more like desperate people willing to use the zat to get what they need. I proposes blight on the food stores on one of their new capital world, thousands of Jaffa are now in serious danger of going hungry. The other planets cut off trade as the first two that try to help also have their crops destroyed. Desperate, they turn to Earth for help, but despite the massive overage of food that this planet produces, the IOA and Earths governments are not willing to empty the food stores to help aliens, no matter alliances. Instead of trying to turn on their brethren, the Jaffa turn their desperation against Earth. Hijinx ensue.

[@sg-24]

@Michael Kotcher I really like this idea. Also based on this idea you are either going to love or hate my next video.

[@nicholaswalsh4462]

I don't think it is inevitable that the Jaffa would adopt a democratic system of government. Most likely, they would adopt a sort of constitutional monarchy, with perhaps an elected monarch. Culturally and socially, the Jaffa aren't a democratic people. They follow Great People, giving their loyalty to a powerful or influential or charismatic person. That isn't conducive to the establishment of a representative democracy.

[@sg-24]

To be honest I kind of disagree. I do agree that the Jaffa have an issue embracing democratic rule. But part of that was due to traditionalist who wanted to embrace a more militaristic form of government. And even then they didn’t want to set themselves up as kings, great men yes, but not as kings. Given how that might be a sore spot for them. I also think the Jaffa will developed more democratic values since leaders of the traditionalist are dead and the only great men they have left are those who did want more democratic rule, such as Teal’c or Bratact.

[@nicholaswalsh4462]

@sg-24 monarchy has taken many forms. What the Jaffa would categorically reject is Absolute Monarchy. However, an elective monarchy, similar to the Holy Roman Empire or the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, would probably be more palatable. I make this argument mainly because the Jaffa have no experience of democracy. They don't want an absolutist ruler but they are not in a position culturally to accept mass rule. Furthermore, the Jaffa are a people of tradition who also want to retain their independence. The adoption of an elective monarchy would be a likely compromise between the different factions.

[@sg-24]

@nicholaswalsh4462 that’s a good point. I came across VenomGeekMedias video on Romulan politics. They did something kind of similar. With a democratic elective senate and a more authoritarian committee. I do think that with how many leaders of the traditionalist are gone the more democratic factions have more power. But I can see some kind of compromise being made between the two.

[@DidierWierdsma6335]

The Jaffa nation is exactly like America the so called United States it's not way too Divided and will ultimately fail. Right now America is in a vast decline sadly but hey nothing last's forever. Other than that a great video keep up the great work👍

[@damiongreen5377]

Jaffa Kree!!!

[@Persian-Immortal]

ha ha, Baal got beaten up by a girl!

[@Mangomesh]

Yeah, some people will always be slaves. LOL.

[@Pretender6]

Really recommand the SG1/SGA crossover Fanfic with X-Com, XSGCOM : Mirror Image and its sequal XSGCOM : Terra from the Deep,