Why the future of Commander hangs by these Bans

[@dominicvl1990]

I own 2 crypts. 2jeweled lotus, and I bought dockside last week. This really stung. I think I’m done with buying expensive cards now

[@MisterWebb]

Ouch. Hang in there, buddy!

[@craigchambers1545]

just proxy from now on

[@TheeGoodSir]

proxy or find cheap alternatives

[@DraygaFlight]

I personally think this is a great thing for commander. A rebirth of its roots! You can still play the cards, you are just forced to rule zero them in the game (and maybe keep replacements if the group isn't okay with it) People have legit forgotten that commander started as a rule zero format, 100% just saying "screw the rules, we play our own way..." This could reenergize that core belief!

[@albertpnc]

I was going to sell off my extra copies in about a month during MTG Vegas. I might end up selling considerably more than just spare the high dollar cards that I owned. I feel more than a bit scorned. I was already waning on magic. This feels like quite the death nail.

[@JakeandJoelareMagic]

Oh baby that mana crypt. RIP Liking hearing your takes during these moments.

[@travisgaffordmtg]

We'll see if you say that during our next on stream argument!!

[@Miko_of_the_North]

That Crypt when up only the old printings got hit hard any of the latest are good. hum almost like the secondary market is influenced from some larger company . . . .

[@JustaSmilingHedgehog]

Remember when Card games were just a silly little hobby you played for fun ?

[@dustinshilala4802]

Proxy Proxy Proxy. Forever. I will never ever buy a card over $20. Ever.

[@gabecastillo1634]

Its fun to collect, it’s fun to save mid tier staples and trade up for an expensive card for ur favorite deck, its not fun when the rc tells u that there’s only one way to play and it’s theirs

[@sanctred]

No because I’ve been playing and collecting the OG and best TCG for over 30 years.

[@joshhutchins6747]

They still are. Commander is no jeopardy whatsoever of going away.

[@theJmanStriketh]

I wish I remember where I read it, but there's a really good article somewhere that talks about this. The premise was that given the distribution of play pieces (reprint availability, card rarity, print run size, etc.) any player wanting to "keep up" in a format is forced to care about the economy of magic. If you're playing at an LGS, even if your goal is a goofy interaction, you need a minimum power concentration to not get pubstomped and Do The Thing. Almost no one (Hi Post Malone) wants to spend more than they have to in playing the game, but if they don't pay the "table tax" they're not allowed to have fun, so card value is important. Crack a Jeweled lotus? You can power up a deck (more table time = more fun), or trade it for other cards (more options = more fun). Losing that monetary value sucks (especially for artists + stores), but it's the functional loss of gameplay/trade power that's the quiet root of most frustrations. As a juxtaposition, I'm part of an MTG cubing group. Given the built-in balance and proxy acceptance of cubes, there's much less drama around decks/bans and more fun building and playing with that group. Cubing is one way to sidestep the game economy. (Gauntlet deck collections are another possibility).

[@lonsmithicus]

8th video about this I've watched and really appreciate your different discussion points. Thank You.

[@JadeHex]

Travis the Gathering, the one I trust. The amount of corporate cheerleading I saw after this announcement was depressing. Jim's a cool dude.

[@dbuck8781]

How and why did WoTC branch 60 card magic into different formats back in the day? I have a feeling this is what the RC needs to do, making different tiers or sub formats or something. I do not feel having different RC groups is beneficial. I hope they can accommodate different playstyles within the one RC, bring some people in if they need the help. EDH has grown and so should the RC

[@daviddavidson7851]

The RC said themselves they worked hand in hand with WOTC

[@MisterWebb]

How are they “independent” when some of them work for WoTC?

[@NobleOne8]

Exactly. Thinking that some arbitrary group of people have power like this to effect the Market to this scale. That a multibillion dollar company would allow such a group to do this without their consent is foolish.

[@damonlouis6536]

they do. wotc asks the RC for opinions and then ignores them. ie jeweled lotus

[@UmbraBree]

We've known this since the Invoke Prejudice ban. Instead of doing the smart thing and just doing nothing cause those old cards were niche and unplayable. They walked in lockstep so now only 93/94 format has it legal now.

[@NeverDauntedRadioNetwork]

But WotC doesn’t work with them when creating these cards. It’s never been a two-way street.

[@insertcoyne]

Really appreciate your takes and the organic commentary style of your videos! Thanks Travis!

[@Mahud123]

Not sure how I stumbled upon this video, but I'm glad I did.

[@itsAnnaMargaret]

I loved hearing your take!

[@travisgaffordmtg]

Thank you!

[@Hapkins-le6xf]

I had been proxying for a while now in commander. Playing constructed was big in moving me into proxying in commander. 100 card singleton format, buy a 50+ dollar card, play 10 games and don't see it. I never cared when playing against proxies and wanted my money to go into other formats, namely pioneer, so I started proxying in commander to free up that budget. Commander is the proxy friendly format. You don't need to proxy everything, but you should proxy often.

[@DamianEstrada]

More content like this! Thank you Travis!

[@MattJ17]

I’m more upset that I can’t play with or against these cards in Cedh anymore. “Roll for crypt” will be missed.

[@Damatovg]

The even worse part of missing out on crypt is that it says flip a coin, and yet no one ever flipped a coin, they just used a die. "Evens I take damage, odds I don't"

[@DraygaFlight]

Says who? Your playgroup can choose to RULE ZERO the game, just like commander players did so for years...

[@xThorn342]

​@@DraygaFlightwell, no, because cedh usually often means tournaments or other kinds of playing events, where they will HAVE to follow the bans. However, if you had disliked a certain card in commander, in your CASUAL pods, you could just rule zero remove them from the game yourself.

[@ericwilliams6263]

Yes, very sensible takes.

[@Thalarion]

Only playing magic for 2 years but understand it better than a lot of people. Great video.

[@cuajocuajocuajo]

Thanks for your comments, I am ok with the bans but I understand the people who aren't

[@DarkDax12345]

The rules committee does have a god complex with their last statement let's be real

[@zukiginagato2215]

The only ban I didn't like was the crypt. I understand why and i'm not rly against but... I did enjoy playing it. I do play casual and my games usually last for 10~20+ rounds, so it was always more fun seeing people dying for it than seen unpleasant spike of power cause of +2 mana.

[@zenalias3131]

a 100% agree with you. I keep repeating this in the last day or so. The ban was indeed of good intention but marred by bad execution.

[@playalot86]

I haven’t purchased Magic cards in many years. I proxy all of my decks completely for Spelltable.

[@PM-xc8oo]

There is no chance that the rules committee did not run this by WotC first and likely well in advance. Even when the RC does complain about things in the past (universes beyond, Jeweled lotus being a mistake) WotC just ignores them.

[@sanctred]

Correct. The RC are WOTC employees so… it’s really just WOTC in sheep clothing.

[@Zarbon000]

This video is hilarious. We are all so addicted, we can’t stop playing, no matter what Wizards does, or what they print. We can just change any rule we don’t like back to our happiness. We survived Magic 30, Pinkertons, and all the power creep over the last 5 years that has led to the most bannings in the history of the game. We’ll survive this too.

[@HerbChao14xs]

I like your opening, and your video is very well done and spoken given 2 years in the game. I'll def be curious on the future of MTG (and eDH) after this big ban (and maybe it gets folks to form another form of eDH where those cards can stay legal as well as bring back some cards that got banned that can be played if everyone agrees on them like Paradox Engine). And I'm your 99th comment on this page :-)

[@-Banoffee]

I'm sad about Lotus. That hits two of my decks.

[@Weaver_Games]

I think you aren't fully grasping what the RC is. It's just a small group of ex-judges who play kitchen table commander with each other. They honestly have no actual power over WotC - and what say they do have is effectively granted by WotC themselves. WotC very literally holds all the cards. There is no way in any form of hell they weren't talking with WotC at least a year in advance of these bans. Commander Legends had the Jeweled Lotus on the bloody box art. Definitely just a coincidence the bans for it comes just as the print run for it ended of course. Also read their BS on why Sol Ring is still legal - the real reason is if they banned Sol Ring then 4 years of commander pre-cons would be made illegal and Wizards would just tell the RC to eat sand and make their own internal one. As sad as it is, commander isn't a player made format anymore.

[@ToadimusPrime]

I think the RC finally did what needed to be done. I think the RC and only they should be in charge of commander bans. I think the RC should not care about card prices and WOTC earnings. If you lost money because you're a CEDH player, because those cards are must-have in CEDH, I'm sorry. If you lost money because you're a collector, or play those cards in casual commander, I'm not sorry. If you're a collector, you weren't gonna sell them anyway. If you're a casual EDH player, then why the crap are you running $200 powerhouses in casual??? I'm happy this ban happened, I hope we get more powerhouse staples banned too. I am however fully aware they should have announced this in advance so people could get rid of their cards.

[@DrMentosFreshMaker]

Just make your own format. that's how it started in the first place

[@harbingerofchaos6720]

Don't need to make a format. Way I see it, by refusing to remove those cards from a couple of my decks, I get rid of the people who 'live and die by the RC' and yet still ramp like Hell, which caused all this shit in the first place. The RC didn't rip up their resources to slow them down, they ripped up our resources to try and keep up!

[@licenetospam]

i cant believe i just found your mtg channle cedh is on fire and i was looking around for more takes

[@Larkinzzz]

Very sensible takes, the RC should hire you as their spokesperson. 😉

[@sanctred]

Festival in a box had cards that spiked due to nadu which needed a reprint. They had collector pacts that had jeweled lotus and mana crypt. It sold out… weeks later these bans drop…

[@mageius]

I really did like playing my Cryot because of pulling it during a draft with friends at my LGS years back when the original Eternal Masters came out.

[@mentosmuncher]

Proxies from now on and forever 🥲✊️

[@MrFl0bo]

So happy to see someone finally address the communication between the RC and the community - and I don't mean that x member of the RC is on channel and says something, I mean like the group they represent. At the moment if you look the RC up and get to their OFFICIAL site, they can not be contacted as a group, as the organization they represent. You find who the members are and different IDs for different platforms where you might "get in touch" with each one of them. Further only putting out a post every quarter with "everything is OK" and than in third quarter hitting people with bans...is bad, see the case now. As Travis mentions, the RC should communicate more how & what they are doing or want to do. As it is at the moment, I don't really wonder that people say the RC should not exist.

[@analiacartelle1115]

Rules comittee = Wizards of the scam coast.... if you don't believe it check the Mana Crypts /Lotus stuff sold in the last 2 months, it was maaaaaasive!!

[@k_hearts3954]

I like how no one defends the bird

[@NeverDauntedRadioNetwork]

So here’s the problem that few people are discussing: the RC goes to wizards to let them know incoming bans, but wizards doesn’t consult the RC when they’re introducing these cards because then maybe it wouldn’t be released. Hasbro wouldn’t allow that.

[@Arctanis-vt3hl]

That's not an issue. Remember, Wizards made the product and they can do whatever they want. They arent' obligated to tell anyone anything.

[@therealax6]

The RC has said that Wizards does show them the cards early and asks for input (it's somewhere on their website; I don't have a link at hand), but, obviously, Wizards has the final say.

[@gbasso666]

Wait, Travis plays MTG? lol Btw, really good point about the RC.

[@ZabsNerdhouse]

Great video with interesting insights!

[@skfot5152]

Here is why the RC telling the community in advance about planned bans is pointless: Lets say the RC said they wanna reduce fast mana in the format. Then those with say jeweled lotus will wanna sell their stock. But to whom? No one will buy, and whoever will buy (not thinking it will get banned soon) will just be the one stuck with it rather than you. If you buy cards as an investment, you are olaying a game of hot potato. Whoever is left holding the card when the ban/reprint comes loses. Do so at your own risk knowing cards are banned because of the GAME, not because of the secondary market.

[@MTGMetrics]

100% the correct takes

[@TheM8]

I would love to hear your oppinion on the FAQ the RC just dropped.

[@BigNonsense]

This is the opinion I most align with thank you for sharing

[@travismcauley9875]

Great video man.

[@ChaseSchappell]

Three of our local shops have agreed that they won’t uphold the bans. So least for local we can still play them

[@otakuholly8885]

now can we get the video of you putting your jeweled lotus and mana crypt to the torch?

[@Viryn]

What I love about fast mana and tutors is the ability to tune up and down decks depending on what you play. If it's a trash commander with a hard, slow, bad but fun theme, you can add some tutors and fast mana to bridge the gap to playability. And if you play a strong commander with a strong shell, you can just remove some tutors and fast mana to scale it back. It's literally the Guage you use to adjust power level. Slow, nisch, and bad commanders get even worse now.

[@prestonjohnson1537]

Hadn't seen it that way before, but that tracks.

[@isaiahbradford2343]

Then get creative figure out some other way

[@Viryn]

@isaiahbradford2343 The same could be said before the ban. Don't like all the fast, mana? Play more interaction, "get creative." It's a weak argument, but it's nonetheless true 👍

[@noisepoIIution]

Fast mana still exists! It's only 3 cards... if these 3 cards ruined ur entire deck, that's just bad deck building bud

[@prestonjohnson1537]

@@noisepoIIution and how long are the other fast mana cards going to stick around before they're also banned?

[@pomposso_typer]

I've been playing EDH since before commander products were a thing. Looking back over the years, having the rules committee be a separate entity from wizards was always a good thing and I still support it. I do think with the proliferation of cEDH, LGS casual Commander events that didn't have clear zero rule conversations made games less appealing, specifically for new comers. My POV, cEDH gets hit the most by this ban. I feel the bans make Casual Commander better. cEDH will need to adapt if the subgroup wants to keep using the Commander banlist. Another option would be to have separate banlist for cEDH since most cards play differently in cEDH.

[@niklasjuchem]

I'm the player thats sad to not be able to play jeweled lotus. It was one of my absolute faves. I loved the feeling of playing the most iconic and powerfull card in MTG or at least an approximation . . .

[@harbingerofchaos6720]

You CAN play it. Find people willing to let you do it. Negotiate and explain what they are dealing with.

[@jolteon345]

I believe that people were misplacing their anger and lost trust. We shouldn’t be mad at the RC outside of how the bans were presented. People should be mad at WotC for allowing Mana Crypt, Dockside, and Jeweled Lotus reach the ridiculous prices that they did. WotC decided to turn staples into hard-to-get chase cards that were massively under printed.

[@Miko_of_the_North]

The RC let WotC have there chase cards in set before banning happened (ie the talks the RC and WotC had for over a year about the bans) so yes the RC deserves the heat and more I would say the explanation for not banning Sol Ring too was a joke it's better then Crypt lol

[@jolteon345]

@@Miko_of_the_North The RC can’t control what WotC decides to print. They can advise WotC against (re)printing cards but WotC will decide if they want to print it in the end.

[@DraygaFlight]

​@@Miko_of_the_Norththe difference is accessibility. Its less of an issue if everyone can play it. "I want to fight you, not your wallet..." Is a common feeling.

[@ArCSelkie37]

@@jolteon345 no, but the RC can ban cards that have been a problem for several years. Mana crypt isn’t a new card, and it isn’t suddenly broken… it’s been broken since it’s first printing. They only banned it after it got massively desired reprints… and that sucks ass and they have bad ages to ban it.

[@davidarbour2683]

are you an average precon player ? bc man if you can't drop 100$ in a hobby, you need to prioritize your life

[@fernandoleal489]

Very good video, i have seen some people being extremely disrespectful about the topic, but you were awesome

[@saveriomaiocchi]

I liked playing Lotus and Crypt. I think you make a good impatial point on the situation but i believe the frustration Is also because part of the community really liked turbo games. Other than rage for economical loss i think many people now are very confused about what Commander Is supposed to be. When i started again magic with Commander i saw a lot of crazy powerful cards that allowed turbo starts and rapid games + the promise that Commander Is a stable format with limited bans. This ban strongly conflicts with the resons i started playing Commander and couldn't be foreseen based on what i could know about the format. Commander has not to be as i like but It has to be clear what It Is so that people can decide in advance if they want to play or not in the format.

[@ALymental]

I've always believed that often, more important than fairness in policy making... is perceived fairness in policy making. PR matters, the mandate of the RC has upkeep costs!

[@Omegaman4321]

wow, I did not know Travis had an mtg channel, tight stuff dude

[@BenStanton-f1g]

Abolish the RC.

[@Zombielunchbox]

Wow great video! Very insightful and rational! Thank you!

[@yky0674]

Good takes.

[@AdamTaylor-n1j]

Randomly catching this video compelled me to follow you, thankyou for applying your prior experiences. Say it loud: lose as much 5hit as you like about this, Hasbro won't give a single 5hit in return. The communication has been appalling, but the RC have acknowledged this, and, yes, they are human people beings. EDH is a casual, player driven format, cope harder and stop threatening people who have loved this game, and this format, since before you even heard of Sol Ring.

[@alancoulson]

I disagree that the bans send a msg to wotc that the RC will ban chase cards. Wotc got to use these 3 chase cards to drive sales of several products over many years. If you want your dog to stop peeing on the rug, you don't scold it three hours after it made a puddle.

[@KyleTremblayTitularKtrey]

You also dont warn it in advance and allow them to flush out the product.

[@Lucy2225-nj4]

I agree completely about the RC being these gods on the mountain top. The bans themselves, as someone that's played from the beginning, feel so bad because there's a sentiment that the game is worse now than it used to be that's just not true. It's so much more diverse, rule 0 used to consist of asking if anyone was playing simic or fomo precon. I like playing mono red, black and white so these bans feel like im being dragged back to third or fourth place every game

[@cyber.sylvie]

you touched on the best point here: the people in charge of ban lists have to do whats best for the game. if wizards wants people to keep buying their cards they need to stop printing broken shit.

[@dustinendo9605]

Travis!!!!! doing MTG now......awesome

[@Dread2012death]

"Oh-" *prints* "-no -" -*-every-*- "- whatever-" *single card* "- shall we-" *i want* "-do."

[@Jasongy827]

Make more videos. I played magic since 2011 when the first innistrad came out.

[@TheHollowBoy]

As a player of yugioh I have to say them having Konami control of the ban list freaking suck. Rarely they hit the problem cards because there often incredibly expensive. An Konami has a history of making ban lists to force you to buy new product/ or when they reprint a expensive card to the grown so everyone can play it they just ban it after squeezing all the value out of it. So I actually like that commander banlist isn’t directly controlled by wizards. An the fact they explain why they ban cards is kinda nice to.

[@Vapor454]

Hasbro knows exactly what's happening. I'm buying proxies. You think anymore mana crypts coming down in a later set. If you got hit , you should be angry.

[@franciscoflores3231]

Thank you for your opinion in this sad hour Nicolas Cage!

[@Pyroshax]

I really like the points you made in the video, and I've felt similar sentiments but have been articulating them in different ways. The thing in common is that, yes, this ban has harmed the perceived integrity and brand of the RC, which consequently felt like that stung extra hard because I did not want the RC to go away, and if the format were to splinter or change hands, I would not want to have to "re-learn" or re-evaluate other banned cards. I want to trust that cards like paradox engine and sundering titan deserve their ban, but a change of hands calls into question the status quo. I'm not sure that I agree that this is any sort of signal to wizards. Chase product, such as LCI and Commander Masters.... Wizards has already kind of made their money on. That product has already been moved, and now that people have what they want, its taken away. People feel deceived, they feel grifted, and in a weird way, this is the sort of ban I'd expect a highly cynical corporation to make. The timing around this ban feels oddly reminiscent of how konami handles its bans in yugioh. Pump and dump. The only way to really see if this move was made with financial integrity, and no influence by wizards, will unfortunately be mid-late 2025. Will wizards have to publicly delay a product because they had slotted Jeweled Lotus for another reprint? Or will they quietly release a new mechanically similar designed chase mythic that nullifies the impact of this ban? Will wizards reprint Mana VAULT... an (arguably, but maybe not) similar powered card that spiked in price after the ban, as a new chase mythic in the next masters set? The future actions of WOTC will cast a very large shadow of implication on these recent bannings, but for now, its only speculation and admittedly, nearing a slippery slope type of fallacy. Summarily, I think people want WOTC to control the commander banlist because this kind of feels like the type of ban they'd employ anyway, and they're drawn to the type of centrality and known accountability a public facing corporation has to deal with as opposed to the nebulous and hidden nature of the RC. (Which to your credit, you addressed somewhat, and that I agreed with) Regarding the communication. I do like the type of potential alternative presented here. Future forward thinking, public facing, and empathy driven. I've been personally kind of reflecting on a full range of their communication. The RC's recent words are getting a lot of attention, and members of the community are speculating what the RC SHOULD have done, but I think its equally valid to reflect on how these actions line up with their past communication. Commander operates spreading from the pillars of the RC's philosophy document. Not to get TOO longwinded, but reading through it, its not hard to pick out individual things within it that are conflicting in the kind of messaging and consequences of the bannings. Mainly meta considerations, and stability. I also think these recent actions conflict with their promises this year of being more transparent (as mentioned in one of their posts about their "goals") and they conflict with the intentions of representing player interests through members of the CAG (commander advisory group). Its not hard to come to a conclusion that the RC has said one thing, but done another. In the video, the RC is referred to as a balancing entity, and I think thats one of the things that sticks with me. For all intents and purposes, most people did NOT consider the RC a balancing entity. They did not consider commander balanced. Commander was accepted and rejoiced in the fact it was a broken and unbalanced place full of crazy powerful old cards. The RC's bannings used to be justified in keeping the game fun and diverse. Making sure that players weren't scared away by boring playpatterns or get bored by ubiquity. One could maybe argue ubiquity as a reason to ban, that people were tired of seeing these powerful cards "all the time", but I'm not sure that holds much water given the supposed price and "rarity" of these cards. Sol Ring dodged the ban despite its ubiquity, due to its "iconic nature", but I'm not sure I agree who gets to decide what is and isn't iconic (if that should be the determining factor at all).

[@kamakazi339]

And now the RC is under wizards. Welp there goes that format.

[@LeifTheRogue]

I may be on the hype train for the bannings, but I think this is an excellent take on this topic. THANK YOU for making a genuinely informative, non-controversial video on the genuine pros and cons of it all that isn’t just “Grrr I hate the RC and EDH players” (which, sadly, I’ve been hearing a lot of recently from some groups) Though I may disagree on a few things regarding it, the extra transparency in the RC would be extremely beneficial if it were implemented in some way, as obviously these bannings were a shock I do believe these bannings are at the least good for the format, as a lot of the hate I had observed around the cards had been people who played at LGSs and needed to deal with other ‘casual’ decks running rampant with a turn 1 mana crypt and jeweled lotus. Although, I do wish that rule 0 had been mentioned a bit about things, on the topic of the RC being these faceless gods. It’s always been encouraged to communicate to your group and feel free to waive bannings, even if it means seeing the ban list as just a guideline, and I wish it were talked about. The RC is not in full control of people’s kitchen table magic. If a group wants to run mana crypts, they are free to, so I’m not sure why so many people just refuse to talk with their groups, and rather blame the RC for everything

[@austinschwab2632]

I totally understand dockside, nadu. Jeweled lotus I’m iffy on since it’s only really nice the first couple turns. Mana crypt I don’t get why it’s banned since you can lose life every turn potentially for colorless mana. Doesn’t make sense to me.

[@Shawn-f3x]

People won’t stop playing the entire Expensive Fast Mana package at casual tables.

[@austinschwab2632]

@@Shawn-f3x I get that, that’s why atleast in my friend group. We have specific conversations about that stuff. Going to a local shop to play, you have to hope people are honest about their decks power levek

[@cheezybred]

There is absolutely no way that wiz would just let a 3rd party handle this decision unilaterally. They 100% were consulted on these bannings and made this decision together.

[@travisgaffordmtg]

I don't understand the "let them" - how would they stop them?

[@edwardlasso3092]

@@travisgaffordmtg since the cards for upcoming sets (which may have included some of these cards if WOTC was not informed) aren't printed overnight and take months to be printed and packaged for shipping, WOTC would most likely find a way to "stop them" from announcing these bans before those releases.

[@themantheycallmike]

@@travisgaffordmtg I don't think "Stop them" is the right phrase, but if they weren't consulted (which they were talked to according to the Committee themselves in the RC Discord) they could have approached it in a different way. They could have fed into the discontent in the community, and pit them against the RC in a bid to seize control of the format, framing them as improper stewards especially now that they have more new members in the group helping to make decisions. The fact that they instead copied over the rulings to the main Wizards website, and from all appearances appear to be supporting the propagation of the news says to me that this is fine with them (likely because they've already dumped off a bunch of Mana Crypt reprints and Jeweled Lotus reprints recently, so it doesn't hit their bottom line). There's definitely a line somewhere where Wizards would retaliate (Sol Ring might have been that here, for example) but they've not hit that line.

[@michaelalves8900]

@@travisgaffordmtg Simply say no, or they will be removed from official status. Wizards hold all the power behind the curtains. The problem is that wizards knew the bans and kept printing those cards. Both Wizards AND RC are at fault.

[@headhunterracing]

@@travisgaffordmtgby saying the rules committee has no bargaining on the game. Simple. Wait until the lawyers get involved and discovery takes place. We will know then

[@8Smoker8]

These bans were great for Commander.

[@michaelhellmann5030]

The rules committee should be disbanded.

[@juandanielpaipilla3374]

i think those were good bans but leaving sol ring may be a bit contradictory but its cool to see the hyper inflated prize cards go, too many use those cards like they are absolutely necessary and they are not, it's sad for those who bought one of these recently but these are good bans.

[@stealingclay]

The problem is that this rules committee has a track record of questionable ban list changes. Some are in the realm of price manipulation. This latest one hit people's pocket book and ofcourse they are upset. I would like a from scratch ban list with a full explanation, including prevailing mission from the RC. Maybe mission. Scope and philosophy

[@robertkolbe3751]

Once you have been abused, there is no going back to how things were before. My confidence and joy in collecting premium cards is completely gone. I will not buy anymore sealed product and I will not invest in any specialty versions of powerful cards. That's a fact. I have spent thousands and thousands and I am really sad right now. I've had six modern decks banned in one day a few years back and I sold my modern collection afterwards and only focused on commander afterwards since it was a safe haven until recently.

[@ArCSelkie37]

Yeah, i’m worried about my secret lair of Smothering tithe… and that’s not even a third of the price of a regular crypt. I can’t even imagine if I had a mana crypt. I’m not rich by any means, and it was a special treat to buy that… and i’ve seen some people asking for that to be banned too.

[@robertkolbe3751]

@@ArCSelkie37 yeah I have one foil ixalan, 3 old border one masters and one Jude promo crypt. It sucks. We will continue playing the cards within our playgroup but money wise it's a disaster.

[@harbingerofchaos6720]

Its one thing for the money side, but there is also the gaming side, and here is the thing I simply can't let go. While all the troubles ARE with Fast Ramp, its with people who don't even use Crypt or Lotus! Or even Sol Ring most of the time! They have worked out a much more efficient way and continuously ramp in a way no one else can keep up with. The bans not only missed their target, they have dismantled a way for anyone else to try and bridge the gap. This isn't making the games go longer, much less fun, when 3/4 of the table can't do anything.

[@robertkolbe3751]

@@harbingerofchaos6720I also think that land ramp is far superior. And what also nobody takes into account that there is much more to it than just having access to a lot of mana early. If the rest of the hand doesn't do anything or doesn't draw you cards often leads to nothing special if you can't convert the early advantage. There are countless times where I've played out my whole hand by turn three and followed by getting attacked because of my advantage and not drawing into anything. The game is full of busted stuff and that's what I love about it. Games are always different and a quick victory of one player may lead to another 3h game with the same set of cards at the table.

[@harbingerofchaos6720]

@@robertkolbe3751 but here is the thing, I don't find it always different. I find the higher guys are mind-numbingly monotonous. Its boring as F. I watch a guy ramp like Hell, his deck is a machine, and everyone tries everything... He can counter/kill just about everything too because he has that much extra mana available to him so quickly, and no one can do anything. And every time we all die the exact same, boring as F death. You'd literally need all three other players to ALL ramp every turn, in unison, to be able to take him down - and that doesn't happen at a casual table. And yet he won't go to a cEDH pod at all (and its not a cEDH deck). But this is just a singular example - fact is there is more than one of these sorts of people in the room. I just want to ZERO Rule every game from here on out - I bought a Crypt and 2 Lotus (to replace proxies) in the 'fire sales' by at least one person who pulled the pin. That will clear the decks of the more advanced players more socially, because I simply don't want to play them anymore. Playing the experts with legit decks have devolved into a waste of time. Here's to hoping others will do the same and join me, so I can really try experimental stuff (and see if anything works) - but hey, if they don't they can sit there in meaningless wastes of time forever.

[@danmackneyii4750]

Good take.

[@htled7935]

Some people say its just a hobby etc. First of all, yes its a hobby, and someone can spend time n money to bring value to their hobby, nothing wrong with it. Those cards being banned didnt balance shit, in fact, it helped alot of non-meta decks to catch up with the tier decks in CEDH levels. Now we are forced to literally play a current meta decks based on bans. So whats next? Ban the next best thing because everyone will shift to the next strongest card?? EDH has levels for a reason, sanctioned events by players literally can set their own rules to limit budget/cards for events. For casual play, either rule 0 or play within your level whether its CEDH, casual, precon. Not everybody wants to play casually, there are people who want to win also. Like if RC said owh EDH is meant for casual play not competitively, then let me bring my power 9 deck to a casual event, then you ll say I pubstomp etc im an ass. See what i mean, there are levels for a reason.

[@tylerwilliams7203]

I think its a very big headache between edh and cedh, where people playing edh can rule 0 stuff like this, but it becomes a debate over card usage (especially with strangers/locals) that can feel demotivating instead of something like cedh, a competitive format that benefits from bans. Just making bans for cedh and letting players decide (without bias or prejudice) how to play edh.

[@BDtetra]

I 100% disagree and it should be the opposite. The rules and banlist should be curated for fresh tables in a 0 trust game (basically, new players who have never met each other). the cEDH community or table that are more familiar with the game should just Rule 0 cards in. The whole reason this happend in the first place is because people never self curate their cards to lower their power to an acceptable level and stuck in manacrypts and jlos in their decks in casual over the table FNM without ever disclosing they have these since they didnt think there was anything wrong with putting them in, hence the rules. People know that Thassa is a problem so they intentionally do not play it, but too many people didn't see a problem with these. Asking a random person "hey I have X card in my deck, is that okay" is so much easier for everybody than expecting people to ask "hey please do not play 0cmc Fast Mana".

[@isaiahbradford2343]

You are able to rule 0 the cards as long as your pay group is OK with it

[@noisepoIIution]

U can't rule 0 in cedh??

[@ArCSelkie37]

The issue with rule 0, is that it essentially doesn’t exist as log as there is a banlist… lets be real if a card is on an “official” banlist, it’s gonna be an uphill challenge to get it rule 0’d.

[@noisepoIIution]

@ArCSelkie37 that's not true. My friend has a mono blue braids deck. He gets plenty of games at the shop with a banned commander. U can, too, with ur fast mana if that's the game u want to play. Just find similar minded people

[@algernonsblackwoods5859]

Why do you think they kept Sol Ring? Does the one cost make it that much worse? I personally do not like doing damage to myself so the Sol Ring it is but it's just as broken or am I missing something?

[@JadeHex]

It's mainly a matter of saturation, the more fast mana there is the more likely you are to see it. For the people that care about it the difference between having 3 mana turn 1 and 2 colorless mana turn 1 is massive - being the difference between casting something like rhystic study or some similar three Drop and casting a mana rock.

[@ShadowspawnVII]

It's too popular to ban essentially, is what they said.

[@algernonsblackwoods5859]

@@ShadowspawnVII That's weak. They should not have given a reason if that is it.

[@tomw6056]

They should have banned it. This is a common issue with the RC. They don't ban cards they like, and ban cards they've played against and don't like. Sol Ring wasn't banned because all of them play it, and none of them play Jeweled Lotus.This has been a problem with the RC since the first commander set came out over 10 years ago.

[@algernonsblackwoods5859]

@tomw6056 That sucks. I just recently started playing after like 25 years of my old cards collecting dust. Commander is wild to me and I'm still trying to figure out the format. Having a governing body that can ban the cards they don't like for that reason cannot be good for the game. Good thing I didn't buy a crypt I guess when I ordered all those new cards. Off topic but man it's so easy to buy cards in this day and age, what a culture shock from playing last in like 1999. My Dark Ritual doesn't feel quite the card it was back then.

[@matheuscomparini1663]

The problem is that people will never realize the games that weren t ruinned by these banned cards

[@scottcoull88]

Finally a decent take on this whole situation wotc is not your friend the reason these cards cost so much is because of them, look at sol ring an objectively better card but it's printed in every commander deck so it's cheap. Wizards choose to not print these chase cards to sell product

[@Shawn-f3x]

I genuinely believe the RC is responding to something currently in the production pipeline, and I think it’s Marvel. Marvel’s going to bring in The One Ring-level cards, with my bet being on the Infinity Stones. If there’s something like, “The Power Stone, 0-cost, Indestructible, Tap for 2 mana of any color, cumulative upkeep 1-2 life,” the banning of Mana Crypt would only make sense. What? Did you think WotC was going to make cards *weaker* than LotR and MH3? What about the last 2 years would make you think that WotC wouldn’t use super-creep some more to drive short-term sales. OFC they’re making the Infinity Stones. Minimum rock bottom 54$ during prerelease.

[@xGMOx]

I dont have these cards nor will i ever.

[@servalkorion686]

I just happened to sell my mana crypt a couple months ago for car parts & I was lil sad at first but I dodged a bullet it seems

[@yellowbelt]

Thanks man

[@staticnetwork]

Cedh is almost a different format and I think the banlist from edh should be different. In my group we play both and have decks for both, in edh we limit power level by agreeing to one mana positive rock and one tutor. In cedh everything legal goes.

[@gray7836]

On a happier change of subject. Do you think they would ever do a league of legends set for Magic !?!

[@tehric326]

I'm relieved but not surprised that you seem to understand the hidden hazards around this situation. Losing "money" to a ban like this is awful and I don't want to discount that for either players or LGSs. However it is sooo much better for the health of Commander for the reigns to be in the hands of people who don't have an inbuilt conflict of interest. I think if the players can shake off the acute pain of these bans this could be the best thing to happen to EDH in a long time. The RC made a decision with the aim of making commander more fun more often for more of the group, and they made it even though that decision gave WotC a black eye. Having multiple expensive cards that they've printed and sold packs on is obviously a bad look but the existence and prevalence of those cards is WotC's fault, not the RC's.

[@jdlemon2217]

100% accurate comment

[@d.w.7203]

You one of those death threat guys?

[@travisgaffordmtg]

You didn't watch the video, did you lol

[@Music_Box_Mimic]

I had a masterpiece mana crypt since it was printed. I really took pride in having it. I was so happy i had a single card that was worth something. I have been playing Magic since the mid 1990s most of the time casually, and Magic is getting worst every year. This time its the last nail in the coffin for me. This garbage company doesn't deserve any trust, they Always betray it. If you stay by them, I garantee soon will be the time when it's your turn to lose everything.

[@BIGFRANKOL75]

Also, why have an RC anyways?

[@HALLIWEL07]

i am new a mtg i failed to understand why would any cards needs to be banned, this is a product that you buy and sometimes for a lot of money you should be able to play any card you own if not what is the point to have a card taking dust in your home

[@harbingerofchaos6720]

People with A LOT of experience and, frankly, nothing else to do most of the time - have worked out ways to simply abuse cards into going into technicalities probably never meant to occur. R&D is not flawless, so some things simply need to go - but with such a large player base they are obvious straight up and should be banned straight up (and not stick around). So the idea is to try and slow down the game, and make it more fun. These Rules Committee people have literally explained the worst case scenarios, and in my opinion while having recognized the problem, have completely missed the point with two of the four bans (Mana Crypt and Jeweled Lotus). Now those cards are the things of nightmares in those really experienced people's hands. But the funny thing is this - none of those people play them - they have found more consistent fast mana elsewhere (which is even worse if you're up against them). Now, all those trying to catch up have lost even more resources to try and close the gap... But way too many people haven't recognized that. Everyone takes the advice of the experienced sages who know all about these things. You know, those same experienced players, who ramp like Hell yet all say some cards are bad and need to be banned? Yeah well naturally they are one and the same people, those at the top of the pile... Anyhow, when you have a card first printed TWENTY NINE YEARS AGO, was the spotlight (main chase card) of an entire set less than a year ago, worth hundreds of dollars due to sheer demand (from people who can't keep up) .... Well clearly its an absolute shoe-in to be banned right? You smell something fishy? Yeah, that's the smell 99.9% of people won't admit to. All these You Tubers, they love hammering the financial impacts home - so that they distract you from the reason why people would want to play these mana-helping cards in the first place (and who are not cut out to make them the stuff of nightmares like the experts could). Be cautious, the card game itself is a work of art, but everything else around the whole thing (from pricing down to simple opinion) is shonky as F. You've just seen what its like to be deliberately misled by people with vested interests - and the sheer number of people that copped it proves, its always a long-term back-stab.

[@zacharyzuniga1599]

If you think WotC did not know about this, I’ll have what your smoking por favor

[@Justin-Stocks]

The RC is never going to be an independent third party. Nor will it ever been unbiased... WOTC would never let a third party that doesn't have the same goals/incentives as them control such a large part of their revenue. It's frankly wild that people believe there is some sort of great wall between these two organizations. Maybe its not direct influence and maybe its in some indirect forum.

[@travisgaffordmtg]

I'm confused why you think the RC exists at the will of WotC. What could WotC do to stop its existence?

[@Justin-Stocks]

@@travisgaffordmtg I honestly don't think I have a good answer for that question other than speculating that, since the RC, hasn't really done much for so long. WOTC didn't feel the need to try and step in, because it makes no sense to me (and seems quiet dangerous) that WOTC/Hasbro would allow a third party that doesn't share the same incentives to have so much say over their cash cow. As for what WOTC could do to stop its existence... I assume they could just outright just say "The RC has formally been disbanded and we've taken control over the banlist for the format." And im not sure what anyone could do. I am 100% of the belief that the RC is not independent in the slightest. Which is not an actual issue, and probably is much better long-term.

[@Dstinct]

@@travisgaffordmtg WotC is the default authority for the game. There are a ton of people that don't even know that the RC is a thing. If the RC and WotC started using separate ban lists, the WotC would be the one followed by most as they control the LGS where a large number of players play.

[@Justin-Stocks]

@@travisgaffordmtg I do enjoy hearing your take on this all since you have a background/experience. I just think from a business perspective, having a third party having control over the banlist. Which influences card prices, which influence the EV of packs and WOTCs decisions to reprint certain cards. Look at what is going on right now, you can pull a Jewelled Lotus out of the festival in a box that's being actively shipped right now. People bought this product with the knowledge that they could infact pull a Lotus and that its worth >$100. Now imagine if this was the case in the middle of 2025. How bad that would be for the company. I relate this whole thing to: If you gave me your credit card. It's not my money so I wouldn't care. The only thing I do care about is you not running out of money.

[@Medusala]

​@@travisgaffordmtg what's happened quite literally gives them the opportune moment to say "we're bringing this in house, we disagree and understand the player sentiment". This would be under the assumption WOTC disagree with the RC. If they don't (and by the way, we have the roadmap for product for quite a while - no hint at any reprints of the banned cards, go figure) disagree, they can create the illusion of two seperate entities. Two realities exist: * RC and WOTC disagree and the RC went ahead and did it anyway. Player sentiment on the whole is negative, opportune moment to capitalise and WOTC can delete the facade to appease the mob. * The RC were influenced by WOTC, it was a to-and-fro for 6-12+ months, and WOTC have alternative "chase" cards that will replace the banned ones in the pipeline for the next 3-12 months -- and they're happy to let the RC take the heat, because if you're naive, you'll believe "well the RC are the battle cruiser bros and they want this game style". Think about it. WOTC with absolute CERTAINTY DO NOT HAVE ANY OF THE BANNED CARDS PLANNED FOR ANY SET IN THE NEXT 12 MONTHS. I'm sorry, you seem like a nice fella - but you're deluded. If you think the RC can throw a curve ball at WOTC and potentially fuck up their prints for the next 6-12 months you're chatting breeze my dude.

[@Orinn000]

I have no problem with the specific card bans. I agree with the sentiment that the problem was that the cards got so expensive to begin with. WotC should have reprinted them to keep them from getting that expensive, but... The RC should have banned these cards YEARS ago. Trying to be "hands-off" just allowed the problem to grow, and when they finally did take action, it looks like a massive change because they let it get as bad as it did. Dockside didn't just become a problem. Mana Crypt didn't just become a problem. Jeweled Lotus didn't just suddenly become a problem. The RC, through inaction, allowed these problem cards to become format staples. The RC, through inaction, allowed the price of these cards to skyrocket. They're definitely to blame for the sudden drop in value, but they're also responsible for pumping that value to those levels to begin with.

[@ArCSelkie37]

Exactly… mana crypt has been broken since it was first created and banned in most formats. It should have been hit along side the original mox cards. But they do nothing for ages, then decide to hit crypt after an expensive reprint? And I don’t find a jewelled lotus to even be that bad unless someone is like constantly bringing it back for free.

[@andrewmurray9898]

Is stax fun? Does Drannith and Grand Abolisher create a fun and casual environment for new players?

[@BanditZRaver]

Is "combo" fun? Does sitting around for 15 minutes watching a guy demonstrate an infinite loop entertaining after the 5th time? It's only fun to the person performing the action, the rest of the table is going to sit and watch. Don't even use that low hanging fruit called "Stax" if you're gonna ignore the other fruit called, "I combo off and spend 15 minutes to waste your time while I vomit out my library".

[@andrewmurray9898]

@@BanditZRaver No it’s not. I’m making a case for cEDH players and builders who brew and play responsibly. If you dockside combo on a precon player you’re a prick and the LGS should make fun of and shun you. I’m not gonna throw my 6 year old on a 20 inch 12 speed bike. I want these cards people who wanna play where I want to play.

[@alexvergara479]

Most commander players don't play cEDH anyway. Just play what you want in your play group ​@andrewmurray9898

[@kylejohnson8578]

Well it kind of hurts if you're trying to play pirates or a red deck

[@GodOfMoxie]

The idea of the RC existing is good. The trust lose is complately justified though

[@leox.jaramillo3231]

I get people being angry about a ban. I know it sucks to not be able to play your card. I get it. I still very much support these bans. I actually had no faith in the RC banning anything at this point, and I'm happy this happened.

[@whiskeygamesnerdstuff789]

Great Looking cards. My group will still play these, and I'm sure a number of people will pick these up on the cheap. Do not agree with how they did this.