Why the GOAT Debate Is STUPID… and AWESOME

My thoughts on the the TOPIC of the GOAT discussion.
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The game of Basketball has been my passion since I was 5 years old. I grew up as a kid watching my dad's recorded VHS tapes of playoff games through the 70s and 80s, and collected all the Basketball cards. Something about the game and what it represents just hooked me from a very young age.
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#nba #basketball #hoops

[@jonnyarnett]

Are you tired of the GOAT topic?? I'm taking Goku btw..... Cope. lol

[@von5679]

Hell no.

[@Dl3nation]

no tbh i love it

[@studioofshred1050]

yes unfortunately

[@eyerull5301]

Kinda. It’s more of hearing the same dumb argument and no one adding any sort of nuance

[@sesimie]

Start a Sheep topic...on how the social media generation gets lead away from the facts 🐑

[@matthewg5792]

Kobe - "I typically don't engage in things that I cannot definitely win." Actually this is life advice. Don't engage in senseless battles that don't have a clear and verifiable outcome.

[@jonnyarnett]

Exactly. I’ve been applying this ever since I heard Kobe say it years ago. Why should I be spending my time arguing about dumb things on Twitter, when I could be working more and improving the life of my family. Kobe was all about priorities and perspective…. which we all can learn a lot from

[@letmetellyalilstory9122]

Sounds like my battle with addiction. I'm losing terribly 😂

[@ArmandoKozomara]

​@jonnyarnett same with me brother. Kobe was just on another level in life. Although occasionally I can't resist chatting a bit about rankings if someone is way off

[@dogtuber4172]

That's why he is not joining the 2004 Olympics at the age of 26 and the 2006 World Championship at the age of 28, which is him in his prime form. Not forgetting he avoided joining small cities at all cost during the draft.

[@mcmerry2846]

basically "I'm better than you, but you won't accept it anyways, so I let it be"

[@lucasbressan9294]

Hearing kobe talk about his next 20 years is hearth breaking..... rip legend

[@pepejr10king]

True🥺 rip mamba🐍👑

[@bedsheets1867]

Not really

[@tjkale1800]

My hearth is shattered into pieces😢

[@ahwvveahahdhd2841]

You mean rapist

[@trevorlewellin4698]

Man, I'm gonna need a spindle for my hearth😢

[@finsfan90]

Please never change your intro. Its legendary. I get chills everytime I see that MJ play at the end. How he jumps and shoots.. so graceful.

[@1000_Jeezai]

yes

[@Defender78]

I think it would be awesome if he changed his intro every couple of years or so. I mean there's so much great footage of current and past NBA players, it would be cool to see a refreshed intro

[@cheesygrater]

@@Defender78 I agree, but the iconic Jordan fadeaway at the end will always be there

[@davec3651]

Maybe rotate a few different ones. Never get rid of any.

[@audette1978]

True❤

[@archchrisler23]

You can see the class in Jordan's answers. He truly deserves the respect without him begging for it.

[@jeortiz-luis4288]

and the beta fatherless high schooler demands his 😂

[@1vaultdweller]

Also you totally saw the classless behavior during Jordan's hall of fame speech. Being honored in a classy environment, yet he was unneccesarrily trying to settle scores

[@sotiriosdrokalos]

​@@1vaultdwellerMJ's HOF speech is one of the most inspiring speeches a man can hear.

[@archchrisler23]

@@1vaultdweller do you have any idea of the word "humor" or "ice breaker"

[@1vaultdweller]

@@sotiriosdrokalos lmao it was the most embarrassing HOF speech ever. It was full of insecurity and being needy. A man desperately seeking to prove himself in the eyes of others, despite the fact that nobody in that building was trying to belittle him.

[@cd2ogz1]

*Unpopular Opinion* The GOAT debate is needed simply to set the bar! Everything that is competitive has a BAR ..it gives ppl a purpose to push their limits to beat records that were previously set.. without a GOAT of something there would be nothing for the next generation to strive for! So to me the GOAT conversation is absolutely necessary to keep pushing the narrative of who was/is the greatest at something so we as a society can be motivated to do the same.

[@lamontephillips5092]

I feel you but humans are way too emotional for these debates. They treat the debate like they're defending their children.. you should be right but it's a toxic debate because alot of people are toxic

[@jonnyarnett]

I like this take, but I think there’s another angle to it…. this is also why I think Jordan retired 3 times. MJ said many times leading up to his various retirements, that he had nothing left to prove. If you flip the careers of MJ and LeBron, and LBJ plays in the 80/90s while MJ plays in this modern era, then MJ may have not retired early because people would be saying “He still has to catch LeBron”. Your greatest competitor can be that driving force to keep going

[@cd2ogz1]

@jonnyarnett and this is why I say the LONGEVITY argument for Lebron is a gift and a curse.. We as ppl can only strive for a goal so long until we realize there's no succeeding in it. MJ original goal was to 3peat which Magic, Bird, or Thomas never accomplished. I personally think the long road was never an option for Jordan, which is why it was so easy for him to retire multiple times without regret. Lebron never stated a personal goal in his career until he realized he could actually achieve it (chasing the ghost of Chicago) but as I stated earlier how far will he strive before he realized there's nothing left to prove like Jordan did in his 1st retirement?

[@tygg4455]

But why can’t the bar hold more then one person. I think the Goats are Mj Bron and Kareem that’s it. That’s the “Bar” to me

[@strmshadow8411]

@@tygg4455 For that I think it's a 2 part discussion. I see the bar holding multiple people in a this is the GOAT for this position but after that you're going to inevitably compare each other and when you look at their resumes objectively only one comes out on top.

[@alibulushi]

5:43 kobe said I will focus in the next 20 years but sadly he passed away 10 months after this interview 😢😢 rip kobe

[@Easymoneyman44]

💀💀💀💀💀

[@difficbeoversambalao]

i want to hit a like for your comment but i realize you have 24 likes when i reply. rip kobe

[@vincecarterlover911]

@@Easymoneyman44 Bro

[@jl_117]

Its devastating but that is the reality of life. You can have your life planned out but it can be taken away at any moment. I’m sure Kobe was aware of that too 😔

[@justinmunson1412]

I completely agree with how Michael Jordan explained the goat debates

[@logicaldude3611]

That's why Jonny's point about how these guys talk about it privately, it's just dumb. Of course EVERY great player thinks they're better than everyone else. But saying it publicly, making a declaration, "I'm the GOAT" is a completely different level. There's a difference between saying, "I think I'm better than X Y or Z player" and saying "I'm the greatest basketball player who has ever lived." Because GOAT has more to do than just what would happen one-on-one, or in a hypothetical matchup, or whatever.

[@Mornings]

The goat debate is like most "debates" people want to subconsciously feel like they were somehow apart of another persons/things/groups accomplishments even tho they had 0 to do with it. They get that feeling by defending or hyping them up.

[@danielc3321]

You can't tell me that Kobe and MJ don't each think they're the greatest. They just understand PR better than LeBron. Like Kobe said, they knew there is nothing to gain by engaging in the argument. Therefore, they gave the diplomatic answer.

[@Viewingviewer3]

That’s so funny cause I’m a lebron hater but understand that guy is probably the best pr/nba rep we ever had. Every nba player listens and follows what he says. Led blm movement/ nba restart etc

[@dbztitan]

Completely agree. Also, you can find comments from LeBron in other interviews saying he leaves the GOAT discussion up to the fans and TV personalities. He just happened to be candid in a recorded chat with some close friends whereas those same chats with close friends from Kobe and MJ took place off camera.

[@frizzyrascal1493]

@@Viewingviewer3He's used by the Black Boule Movement. Look at one of his tattoos. He didn't start any movement in the NBA. BLM is a political trojan horse and hiding umbrella for the LBGTQ+ movement. Look where the money for "Black" lives goes and what the founders spend it for. LeBron was instrumentalized in this charade. The same with DWade's son dressing up like a ballerina.

[@DrBeauHightower]

Exactly.

[@jaded9234]

@@Viewingviewer3 That's mentioned in the video. It's an unwritten rule. Lebron's image has been marred by his own polarizing actions. He also embraced the less-desirable traits of the post-social media world. Yeah, he gets great coverage when he does something good, but same level of coverage follows his shortcomings. Jordan, on the other hand, is pretty much PR-perfection and has managed to maintain the best dynamic and image between himself, his fans,, the basketball world, and the media. It's an art that many great uniting figures have had. I mean, no matter who you were, MJ was and always can be YOUR guy. He didn't care if you were Black, he didn't care if you were White. All he asked was that you try your hardest, to push yourself over the edge into the glory of victory. To seek excellence in your chosen Art or Profession and try your damndest to NEVER accept disappointment. The man's presence was insane. If you listen to many interviews of people who met him the first time, like LeBron, it usually involves MJ seeming like he is "Floating" or that he has some kind of Aura around him. He's had four hospitals built on his dime and hardly ever brings it up. He knows how the media works, thankfully. He also understands how how easy it can be to to stoke division and strife with his words and influence and still treats the public as the people they are, it's a lost art that sorely needs to return in an era of players/Influencers regularly shooting their mouths off on Social Media.

[@andrewmays8990]

The thing that’s upsets me about it is when they limit it to LBJ and MJ when there is nearly a dozen players who made a goat worthy resume

[@manwerama]

For 25 years it was almost universally understood it was MJ. Then the machine decided it was time to fabricate reality.

[@alexandermeiering5216]

I think anybody who is unbiased will agree that everything considered MJ is clearly and by far the best player of all time. Dont get me wrong but I dont know how people compare Lebron to MJ cause when you look at stats and accolades MJ is clearly better. And this is coming from a guy who likes Lebron way more than MJ. And all other players besides Lebron have an even worse case for the goat debate.

[@spideysense1847]

Right, true hoopers know Timmy D is the real GOAT

[@lamontephillips5092]

Y'all didn't learn shit from this video 😒

[@younggod3906]

@@spideysense1847🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@MMK77344]

Watching this video gave me the idea for a fun all star weekend idea: players play an exhibition game using old rules. No key violation, no goaltending, etc

[@mrhypo78]

Great vid. So true that it’s just a debate that can not be settled. Different eras, positions, teammates, coaches, sport sciences, etc.

[@TheGuesteMC]

One thing that is 💯 undebatable, Michael Jordan is a thousand times better at giving an interview and public speaking than LeBron is.

[@etanabu2232]

shit like this is why people say the goat debate is bad cause who mentioned this😭

[@TheGuesteMC]

@@etanabu2232 I did. I just mentioned it. It's not related to basketball skills or accolades , but it is part of the overall product of the NBA and professional sports.

[@ekamsandhu134]

@@TheGuesteMCno LeBron is better

[@TheGuesteMC]

@@ekamsandhu134 That's your opinion. No need to argue. Literally the point of the video we're both commenting on

[@matthewhyman2208]

to be fair, one is doing an interview and another is talking with his friends 💀 but it really don’t matter fr

[@ktapreswreckd921v9]

Excellent video Jonny 👏. The G.o.a.t conversation just makes for fun and intriguing conversation. We will never get a chance to see (all the greats) compete against one another at the same time, to see who is a (valid) winner! But we can still have discussions about which team or which player is better.

[@Ghyll]

The fact how MJ and Lebron answered goat question, makes Jordan GOAT alone. Lebron needs to remind everyone from time to time that he's the one, he's not respected not enough etc.. you dont have to say that if you feel confident about yourself. MJ is modern era goat, Lebron is - longenvity goat

[@cumbusta9175]

But think about it, if lebron never said that. you wouldn’t be commenting this rn, lebron saying that is what made this whole goat debate possible. It gave us a new perspective and a new challenger for Jordan, I personally loved that he said it🤷🏾‍♂️

[@DebasedAnon]

​@@cumbusta9175So you respect the fact that he inserted himself into the conversation like the fragile ego maniac he is? You do you i guess... If his accomplishments and the way he carried himself were at the GOAT level he wouldn't have needed to insert himself in the first place, the only reason he did is to fuel his fanboys which isnt commendable at all. He flops a lot, he whines a lot and he has horrible playoff chokes on his resume, hes disqualified.

[@strmshadow8411]

@@cumbusta9175 I mean I don't know why you think it gave a new perspective? He beat them once and was beaten 3 more times, so I don't think it really does anything for the debate. That and he just doesn't have the resume.

[@cumbusta9175]

@@strmshadow8411 a new perspective as in lebron was one of the only nba legends to publicly say he’s the greatest, in him saying that it sparked the debate, if he never said that the debate probably wouldn’t be as deep as it is now

[@strmshadow8411]

@@cumbusta9175 But the media has been running with this fake debate for years. Regardless if he said it or not media has been pushing this forever, so to say that it sparked it is incorrect.

[@fabstems3388]

this has been my take for ages. Watching all these idiots pointlessly argue endlessly, it gets exhausting just watching them! Lebron v Jordan, Messi v Ronaldo, Woods v Nichols, why argue, when instead we should just enjoy the fact that we even got to witness athletes play at levels that seem superhuman?

[@jeortiz-luis4288]

N I C H O L S

[@pronoun171]

M E S S I

[@snewohsa]

hooray!! i absolutely love your content, it's always a gift when you post! much love ❤

[@nbarealtalker]

I’m all for LeBron bashing but I honestly think he was sharing his feelings about that moment winning game 7. Imagine how many people have felt like the GOAT after accomplishing something epic. It’s a moment in time. I’ll nitpick LeGM all day but I think people read far too much into athletes having human moments. And I mean read too far into the intention rather than the typical entertaining arguments. Athletes are human beings at the end of the day and guys like LeBron put their heart and soul into the game. It’s pretty relatable if you ask me.

[@YungLanxx]

This should be obvious but your statement was posted on the internet I doubt much people would admit you’re correct lol

[@Daniel-qn9rw]

You said it correctly

[@prod.youngsensai]

I've been saying this for a while

[@diegochavez6203]

True but dude just got three it was a ridiculous statement lol

[@vinnyvorhees]

I agree but then he would of said that made me feel like I was the goat instead of that made me the goat🤷 and he had plenty of time to think about it when he said that.

[@fireshadowblade9]

I think the GOAT debate totally backfired on Lebron. What started as fun became toxic and repetitive thanks to the media and social media. When he passed Kareem, he honestly looked tired of all the pomp and circumstance and just wanted to get it over with, he didn't even really want to give that speech. In a situation like the ESPYs, it's all media driven, so he and his family lean into it for attention, but I don't think he really cares either as long as he's in the discussion, which he is

[@aznpikachu215]

That's kind of being a narcissist, isn't it? To bring that attention in the ESPYs, like we know he's not going to retire in THAT fashion, getting swept by Denver.

[@MistahJay7]

@@aznpikachu215 Panzie

[@iansanchez966]

I agree, the GOAT debate has really marred the 2nd half of LeBron’s career and kept us from fully basking in his greatness. The clowns at ESPN should be banned from mentioning it again until LeBron retires, I’m so tired of it

[@jeortiz-luis4288]

no finals losers should be in any GOAT table discussion unless u got wilt numbers to back it up or finals WINS which he has neither

[@tiktokexposed898]

@@iansanchez966 you cant appreciate it because youre a lebron hater

[@johnnyfelipe8260]

The problem is Lebron he proclaimed himself Goat(when hes not). With Jordan he was being considered by most NBA players, fans, people on their own

[@matthewhyman2208]

multiple nba players, fans and people on their own have done the exact same thing with lebron. People do it with multiple players 💀

[@johnnyfelipe8260]

@@matthewhyman2208 Nope its not the same, Lebron proclaimed himself the goat. Thats a lot of difference.

[@mistameff3528]

@@matthewhyman2208 There is a COMPLETELY different type of class and respect in MJs response. He never said hes the greatest, he always respected players before him. And Lebron and his fans? The star player calls himself the greatest of all time and his fans call the older BBall players plumbers. You see a difference now? Besides that, the majority of Lebrons OWN TEAMMATES are with Jordan. Should that tell you something?

[@jiyghkjsduhjkbkb]

You have to be some kind of delusional to think jordan doesnt consider himself the goat, just look at 2016 lol, warriors beat his season record yet lose the chip so he has to make a comment on that and as soon as bron won 2016 jordan signed off on the last dance. Jordan is the most self obsessed player in history.

[@jiyghkjsduhjkbkb]

@@mistameff3528 The majority of Kobe's teammates hated him. Should that tell you something?

[@awesomereviews1561]

If you look at numbers, accomplishments, advanced stats, rules, quality of the opponent, help required to win, then it’s not even a debate. LBJ isn’t even close to MJ.

[@strmshadow8411]

There's MJ and then there's everyone else.

[@sethrobinson9291]

Quality of opponent is wild 😂. Jordan faced old Magic and Bird. He never played against a team with more than 2 hall of famers in their prime on the same team

[@sethrobinson9291]

Help required to win is also stupid. He had the best rebounder of all time in Rodman, best defending wing of all time in Pippen, most accurate shooter in the league with Kerr, and the greatest coach of all time. What are you talking about

[@lamontephillips5092]

Y'all didn't learn shit from this video

[@strmshadow8411]

@@sethrobinson9291 I see trolls doing troll work... Never faced "Old" Magic (compare ages). Only played with Old Rodman (someone on their way out of the league). Kerr... seriously???.... Greatest coach with no actual NBA resume... Pippen was drafted, don't care what you have to say about it. Lebron is the only person in this debate (shouldn't be there) that has hand picked his teammates.

[@j-rey-]

Discussing who is the best at any given activity is just an intrinsically satisfying activity for a lot of people. We have obsessions with competition, social hierarchies, who is stronger, who is faster, etc. Also, I just love basketball and talking about it :)

[@mrho4speed]

Great video and spot on!! The most important thing to remember is such a debate should be fun!! As long as we can respect another person's opinion and get the same respect back = that is when we can have a healthy and fun debate!!

[@NateMcCoy1194]

The debate just by itself is so dumb because of what mainstream media figures like Stephan A, Colin Cowherd, Nick Wright, Skip Bayless, and many others limit it to. A 2 person race. Guys like Kobe, Kareem, Magic all get disrespected if their names are brought up in the discussion at all and the MJ and Bron fanboys are just disgusting. If a guy has MJ as his GOAT and can back it up with sound logic with what that person holds value in, awesome. If a guy says LeBron is the GOAT and can do the same thing, awesome. Same with Kareem, Magic, Kobe and whoever would fit their criteria. But to sit and argue one of two people and to basically say that picking anyone besides that one player they pick is disrespectful is dumb as shit.

[@Jeff_2x]

When it comes to GOAT debates idk how people don’t get bored by talking about the same thing over and over again. That goes for all sports too.

[@claytonphillips85]

The argument does get tiring at times

[@mistameff3528]

Im a MJ supporter in the GOAT debate. What triggers me the most is the pure ignorance of the people calling MJs era "weak". Just because NBA players nowdays have more muscle. It goes both ways from both partys but I hate that argument.

[@stevenelson3515]

The current crop of players is arguably physically stronger, but the level of play is weaker. Jordan’s day was much more physical. Additionally, fundamental skills like dribbling have almost completely vanished. They carry the ball, they don’t dribble. And don’t get me started on traveling.

[@ADollarMight]

@@stevenelson3515Handles have gotten way better than before, it’s just that the rules also seem to allow traveling and slight carries now and some players can take advantage of that. Some never learn to

[@rardizzle1513]

I've always struggled with the goat debate mostly because players are constantly being compared with 11:49 other players who play in a different position. I mean c'mon, how can i compare Dick Butkus with Tom Brady? They both were unbelievable. Now concerning the other thing, i think it's pretty obvious and no need for debate... KAMEHAMEHA💥💥💥

[@nydibs]

Basketball is different. Especially in todays positionless basketball

[@Spawn3582]

My only problem is that people will argue this without context and will only talk about the narrative aspects of the situation. "Jordan is 6-0 in the Finals" "Jordan lost 3 times in the 1st round witout Pip" "Lebron is the most complete player of all time" "Lebron is 4-100000 in the Finals"

[@elefanta1278]

Are people actually trying to tarnish the legacies of these players with this narratives?

[@Spawn3582]

@@elefanta1278 Man you'd be surprised how at how many people I've seen base their arguments around certain narratives

[@AllBetzOff]

@@elefanta1278ro when I go to an ig post about bron, you always see someone making a whole list of his flaws and say that proves Jordan is the goat

[@mikerobinson6969]

​@@AllBetzOffthats what both fanbases do. You compare their strengths and weaknesses.

[@YungLanxx]

@@AllBetzOffI’ve seen just as much for Jordan, there’s stupid detractors on both sides…the basketball community is the most immature in all of sports it’s embarrassing.

[@ThisIsWEB]

Great video, great thumbnail :P, and that Kobe quote is golden.

[@cadecrusader3940]

Thank you Jonny for this video!

[@thelastairdoctor]

Jonny dropping the Goku v. Superman debate is funny ash🤣. But I'm taking Goku lol. And Mike and Kobe have a point. All the NBA greats have played in different eras and it's hard to compare since as there was different competition and different rules players had to play with but this won't stop the community from debating and as dumb some of the arguments may be at times, the debates are still entertaining and endless. Got Jordan as my GOAT but we'll all have our own opinions of who the greatest is.

[@Sentor-mq5tv]

Superman all day

[@j-rey-]

​​​@@Sentor-mq5tvit's tough, bc Superman's powers have been so inconsistent since his introduction. Depending on the writers, he can move faster than the Flash, bench press the Earth for multiple reps, and battle, like, galactic threats, I think. He kind of just has whatever powers the writers want him to have at any given point. But I tend to agree in general.

[@narcisorivero5893]

Superman wins dude lol but i agree with you on how MJ and Kobe view the G.O.A.T debate lol. I also just like to annoy the hardcore Lebron fans about this debate especially how in my personal opinion, thinks Kobe is better than Lebron. Then watch the Lebron fan go crazy 🤣🤣🤣🤣.

[@narcisorivero5893]

​@@j-rey-Superman has never been faster than The flash but neither has Goku been as fast as the flash or invulnerable like Superman.

[@footyroll8678]

this is wat. superman at his best is more powerful than goku but dude is massively inconsistent compared to goku. its close tho@@j-rey-

[@DrBeauHightower]

There's not many sports with a clear GOAT. NBA isn't one of them. It's Jordan.

[@ComicEdits313]

It all Comes down to preference, I Personally Have Lebron as the goat, Somebody else might have Jordan, Someone might have Kobe, or Kareem, Or Shaq, or wilt, Or Larry, and etc. The Thing is, Regardless of who you think is the goat, You Will Always have those fans that Tear Other Players Down, to boost up another, Bronsexuals And Jordan Jockers, will tear each other apart and start Havoc because so and so don’t think Said Player is the goat.

[@gggyy7104]

Actually NBA is one of the only sports without a clear goat.

[@brostop1042]

Laughable, Messi is on his own tier. Brady is on his own tier. Ohtani building a strong case as we speak. Basketball is one of the only sports with a legitimate debate

[@fluff975]

@@gggyy7104 yep. other than the NBA and maybe Golf (ongoing debate between Woods/Nicklaus is still pretty contentious) most GOATs of other major sports have a relatively clear consensus and are fairly agreed upon by now: Tom Brady (Football), Babe Ruth (Baseball), Lionel Messi (Soccer), Novak Djokovic (Tennis; tho there are still some who like to argue Federer or Nadal), Wayne Gretzky (Hockey), etc.

[@chambeet]

I don’t think Jordan is a clear GOAT the same way that Gretzky is in hockey.

[@dawkinsbeagle]

I loved when they asked Magic & Bird who the better player was and Magic just answered: he's the better forward and I'm the better guard.

[@ghostbusteryan]

Another great video with brilliant insight! How do we get Jonny on ESPN?!

[@averyce2]

Jonny, great video. Superman Michael Jordan But my jaw dropped at 11:48 when I didnt see Kareem Abdul Jabbar in the GOAT mirage. Why in the hell is KAJ not recognized in enough in the GOAT discussion?!?

[@jonnyarnett]

I think it’s because the dude was Tim Duncan before Tim Duncan. People just thought his game was boring, and that entertainment bias became even more obvious when the flashy Magic Johnson showed up and took all the attention

[@sonoftheredfox]

LeBron's problem with even being part of the conversation comes from every time he opens his mouth, his pouting and whining when things don't go his way, and what seems to be this built in narcissistic need to constantly be part of conversations that have nothing to do with him. Statistically, he's amazing. But overall, even now at 38 years old, he demonstrates constantly in these last few years that he lacks the maturity to handle loss and competition. It's like Kobe said, it's a debate that can't be definitively won by any of those entrants in the conversation on a statistical level. But LeBron's hubris has always been a disqualifier for me if you want to continue having a GOAT conversation. I'm not saying MJ nor Kobe each have not had their own personality flaws nor missteps, but those have been surpassed by the rest of their makeup as a person.

[@True-Believer616]

MJ 's legacy is what has so many of us calling him what he is. The G.O.A.T.. If you gotta call yourself the goat after one finals win, when you'd lost even more prior to that, you clearly are trying desperately to convince others to believe you.

[@laurocoman]

He says that he "beat the greatest team ever assembled". Right, but he did it after losing to it one year prior and then losing to it twice two years in a row. Is anyone in the Raptors the GOAT for beating the same team?

[@sir_sack]

@@laurocoman Well I do agree that Jordan is the GOAT and LeBron being a douche for making that claim. He does have a point in that regard to bating the best team of all time. He had no help in 2015, and in 2017-18 it was just unfair, and GS in 2019 was not the same 2-16 team LeBron beat

[@laurocoman]

@@sir_sack but if the KD Warriors was better than the Warriors, wouldn't THAT be the best team ever assembled?

[@sir_sack]

@@laurocoman best team by record. That's why I said he has a point. I don't agree with him because I believe the 2017 are the best. But his point is he beat the best team ever by the record.

[@laurocoman]

@@sir_sack okay, good technicality called. He does have a point.

[@ItzJustJP]

Still sad to hear Kobe talk about 20 years later. I couldn’t imagine the impact he would have had outside of basketball. RIP

[@Joe7_OSRS]

Ok let's rank GOATs by decade. 1940s - Bobby McDermott 1950s - Bob Pettit (Bob Cousy close 2nd) 1960s - Wilt Chamberlain (Bill Russell close 2nd) 1970s - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1980s - Larry Bird (Magic close 2nd) 1990s - Michael Jordan 2000s - Kobe Bryant 2010s - Lebron James 2020s (so far) - Giannis Antetokounmpo (Nikola Jokic in 2nd)

[@vicepresidentmikepence889]

2030's - Victor Wembanyama

[@djloot916]

2010's is Curry, though.

[@Joe7_OSRS]

@@djloot916 No I disagree. Lebron was FMVP 3 times and MVP 3 times in the 2010s. Curry only had 1 FMVP and 2 MVPs in the 2010s.

[@Joe7_OSRS]

@@vicepresidentmikepence889 I hope so!

[@dogbreedsareamyth9409]

2000’s is shaq and timmy

[@OddVenture7]

A classy answer by MJ and Kobe compared to 🤡

[@MistahJay7]

More like two fake answers for the cameras Then Bron actually speaking what he personally feels. I always like the stars that are the best that actually express themselves as the best. Fuck yea you are

[@OddVenture7]

@@MistahJay7 Look at what impact Bronze to his fans 🤡 pathetic! Losers 🤡

[@RR-fc3zm]

​@@MistahJay7 ...says the kid watching Bron on his "tv show" v MJ & Bean in an interview 🤔...hate to break it to you kid but ol Bron Bron fake as f*** 👈💯 #livenlearn

[@markjackson6431]

a video on Dream Team 2 (94 FIBA Team)

[@KDRusha]

To the different players in different eras on different teams point, what about the question: “who made the most out of the hand they were dealt?”

[@AkoSiFrance]

I think that's a more answerable question.

[@KDRusha]

@@AkoSiFrance and i think it’s just as interesting and could introduce players that don’t get talked about as much into the convo

[@richardw3347]

to me the best since the 80`s. 1. MJ 2. Kobe/ Bird -toss up- Kobe has the athleticism, Bird maybe the better shooter and all around player. 3. LBJ Then Magic- I wish I got to see him play in real time more. The fact he wasn't a great shooter limits him in my mind. Hakeem Shaq Duncan, etc.

[@alexgrissom3513]

No way lebron is under Kobe or Bird by now lol. He’s either #1 or 2, but not below that

[@visionary515]

​@@alexgrissom3513based on what? It's not basketball skill. You say lebron is up so high on the list due to just media propaganda.

[@richardw3347]

@@alexgrissom3513 you can't just go by padded stats, longevity Although LBJ should get props for longevity, etc. In their peaks to close games, stats, etc. I feel way more comfortable having Kobe or Bird consistently win or close out a series or a game. LBJ has disappointed me too many times times and I wanted him to win and prove me wrong. Maybe the pressure of being compared to MJ gets to him, not sure. He is still great just not consistent enough in big moments for me.

[@alexgrissom3513]

@@richardw3347 padded stats how? If he’s still playing and an all star caliber player when he’s 45, where would you rate him? At some point longevity should count more than he’s given credit for by his doubters. Bird was great but doesn’t have the longevity, Kobe has the longevity (but not as much as Lebron), but his peak was never as high as James’ (other than maybe Kobe’s ‘06 or ‘08 seasons specifically). And yeah lebron has lost in finals, but name a series other than the 2011 finals where he underperformed

[@alexgrissom3513]

@@visionary515 it is for basketball skill. He doesn’t have a logical argument for being below #2

[@Blackdangerisdangerous]

Jonny is one of the best basketball youtubers hes deserves one million subscribers.

[@davincerica7232]

Awesome video 👌

[@msage510]

The 3-1 come back is the most over hyped moment in NBA history. LeBron took that SAME team to 6 games without Kyrie and Love the year before (GSW had 67 wins). In 2016, GSW went up 3-1, the NBA extended the series by suspending Draymond, making the series 3-2. During game 5, GSW lost their starting center (Andrew Bogut, basically the same skill set as Steven Adams, a #1 overall draft pick who made multiple all defensive teams and a former blocks leader). CLE out-rebounded GSW after that by a wide margin and eventually won game 7 by 4 points... That finals wouldn't get talked about nearly as much if it didn't benefit LeBron.

[@LL-zm9go]

Love missed games in the 2016 finals and also averaged 8 & 7. Draymond played in game 6 and game 7. You’re just a casual hater. 🧂 🧂

[@julianperkowski]

W vid I always watch

[@madisonbordenave4869]

I think u can make better cases for certain players than others. That’s how I see it. The person I would say is the GOAT is the one who has the best case when ur taking into account all the things we use to measure a players impact on the court. The problem is when people start taking it personally and start putting down other players or degrading competition just to uplift one guy

[@Peakfreud]

But all things will never be equal between the people holding the debate. In Jordans case you have 40+ years old Debating 16yr olds. About All time. Ones definition of "All time" is drastically smaller.

[@mamboking0134]

In history class we were taught not to idolize anyone or compare anyone in a general sense, but to analyze each persons strengths and weakness, contributions and detriments. Those things we can learn from and emulate and those we should avoid or caution.

[@levontethompson8840]

The best video that you made my guy

[@danielmcfadden2565]

Mike is the goat tho for various reasons

[@cratwinterz200]

I’ve just finished the section on why the debate is ridiculous, and I completely agree with everything there. I want to explain why I think it’s awesome before I hear your thoughts. Going back to MJs tapestry, the Goat debate (and its various iterations) preserves history. If I claim that Alex Groza is a better player than KAT, there’s going to be kickback. But that discourse highlights Groza for people who don’t know, and maybe a KAT fan does their research into the guy to try to find some gotcha about why KAT really is better. Ultimately a debate about which of these two is better highlights both their contributions (good and bad) to the tapestry. Even if a conclusion will never be agreed upon, it’s an engaging way to educate. At least, that’s why I enjoy it so much. Also, who ever said that something without finish can’t be entertaining? It’s called sandbox games, and they’re pretty fun imho.

[@Historicutuber]

Well said. Yeah the debates are good for the history of the game

[@depeters1]

Thank you!

[@Blackenedification]

I'll leave a comment after seeing your picture about the famous block from Lebron on Igoudala was illegal as he touched the rim at the same time with his other hand ...

[@senorsebie9206]

I think there is not one definitive goat. No matter what there is a player who is better at something than others. Good video Jonny 👍

[@bigazTV]

There is and it’s MJ

[@blacksource2101]

But the overall complete player/athlete in the game of basketball goes to none other than Michael Jordan himself. He's the 🐐

[@sethrobinson9291]

@@bigazTVnaaaah

[@josipmarasovic2436]

@@sethrobinson9291 man Mj is the goat im not a fan of him but he is GOAT how every u look at it he is

[@dododump3144]

@@josipmarasovic2436no

[@DomEverythingEZ]

I got MJ it’s that simple. My issue is espn and the media every other month asking is Lebron passing MJ and it’s like The dude just got swept lol. Let’s end the debate And yes Jordan got swept in the first round with no one but he cooked. Lebron got swept in his big age as a top 5 player in the league with AD and himself already winning championships.

[@cumbusta9175]

And it’s ppl like you who jjonny is talking about in the video💀

[@megabassxz]

Yes. Not only was it Lebron's fault that they lost the series against Denver due to his disappearing4th quarter plays, but Lebron is the only Laker great to even allow Denver to win a series. It's a shame really. From Magic to Kobe, all previous Lakers-Denver playoff match ups those Laker legends didn't allow Denver to win, not even a single series. Only Lebron did, and he even allowed the Nuggets to sweep and celebrate in the Lakers home floor. That alone disqualifies him from the GOAT conversation.

[@lamontephillips5092]

Who gives a shit. Y'all ruined the debate.. humans are too emotional and sensitive about everything.. its a stupid basketball conversation about players who never played each other.. played in totally different eras. It was always a stupid conversation

[@lamontephillips5092]

​@@cumbusta9175exactly

[@Jeff_2x]

People get too EMOTIONAL in these debates that it ULTIMATELY ruined it forever

[@Solznmid]

4:47 Jordan’s hands look so big in this clip, I can’t even focus on what he’s saying 😂

[@pabloasu-mborovalencia6830]

THANK YOU FOR THIS VIDEO. People don't understand that basketball is a TEAM sport so a lot of things can happen. 🙏🏾👍🏾

[@rafikz77]

this

[@chocamocha4541]

This is one of the most forced debate like Messi vs Ronaldo, MJ clears

[@lamontephillips5092]

Yall ruined the conversation the same way humans ruin everything.. too much emotion too much ego. Too much hate and conflict.. can never have a fun debate with humans we let our emotions control the conversation

[@hughjazz6300]

Why is Messi vs Ronaldo forced?

[@josipmarasovic2436]

@@hughjazz6300 it kinda is but if u look from football fan view how can u not say messi is better

[@GatterSzn]

It's not forced people will have opinions

[@ekamsandhu134]

Lebron is much better

[@husasizzle]

There is a video that at least determined who was the better player between MJ and LeBron. The criteria used to determine who was the better player was as close to what can be considered the best basis to determine who is the greatest of all time in any sport.

[@sotiriosdrokalos]

The last part of the video is the best. You're right about the competitive nature of the sport but that's exactly the problem of this era: competition and debate should be about teams who are currently playing against each other, not about a fictional tennis or boxing-style individual all-times ranking. The "goat debate" is product of a marketing choice that went bad. After the NBA skyrocketed thanks to MJ, and for the first and last time a basketball player was as famous worldwide as the soccer legends like Pele and Maradona, they thought that promoting "new Jordans" was the way to go. They forgot that the phenomenon Michael Jordan came out of an era with team rivalries-oriented marketing, not tennis style individual rankings debates. Only if they remember basketball is a team sport they'll see their ratings grow again.

[@DuranmanX]

I think the issue with the GOAT debate is there are 1000s of players to have played in the NBA, 100s are among the best, but only 10 are real GOAT contenders.

[@reimixo]

I think you have like 5-6 guys, and it depends on your pov, to me jordan is nr 1, lebron 2, because he has the accolades and longevity, then u can think about kareem and magic, wilt because he was so dominant, and changed so many rules... then u can put dr J in there because he was dominant and impactfull in both ABA/NBA, bill russell... that´s 7 guys...

[@DuranmanX]

@reimixo Olajuwon is my goat, but I'm a Rockets fan so...

[@reimixo]

@@DuranmanX I have him top 10, but he doesn't have enough accolades to be in the goat convo for me

[@DuranmanX]

@@reimixo how about Larry Bird

[@reimixo]

@@DuranmanX not enough accolades for me,

[@JordanHowlett]

I think the difference is, Jordan never seemed to be chasing some mythical GOAT status - he simply wanted to kill whoever was in front of him. He would do whatever it took, run through whatever walls were in the way and he never backed down or made excuses. I simply don't understand why Lebron is in the GOAT debate TBH. His greatest accomplishment is his longevity. Maybe we will never see another LeBron - someone who has been that good for so long, it really is remarkable. But he is not the GOAT for the same reason that we don't have Karl Malone or John Stockton in the GOAT debate - both sit near or at the top in significant statistical categories and were incredible players for so long, but they didn't win it all and there are other players who were/are more skilled. So, if we look at LeBron, although he sits atop some statistical categories, there are players who have won as much as him and more in his own era and he doesn't really dominate in the same way as the other GOAT candidates. He is not as good a scorer as MJ, Wilt or even one of his contemporaries: Kevin Durant. He is 207th in rebounds per game (fun fact: MJ actually averaged more offensive rebounds per game than LeBron!). He is 24th in assists per game (Westbrook is 10th). He 76th in steals per game (this is behind current players like Ricky Rubio and Victor Oladipo). He is 249th in blocks (behind Draymond Green). He is 3rd in PER (behind Nikola Jokic).

[@LL-zm9go]

Comparing Lebron James to Stockton or Malone who never won a ring is absolutely ridiculous. Please stop attributing “killer instinct” to having the best roster in a watered down era where MJ was the most athletic player by a mile.

[@JordanHowlett]

@@LL-zm9go so do rings count? That's my point: just because you top a statistical category, it doesn't make you the GOAT - winning is important as well, but LeBron isn't even the greatest winner in his own era 🤷‍♂️... I don't get what you mean by the 'best roster'. How many All Stars did Jordan play with? Jordan just made his teams better, you only have to look at what happened in his rookie season, his second season, when he came out of his first retirement and then before he got injured with the Wizards. It's hardly Jordan's fault that he made the rest of the league look bad - he was dominant and clearly the best player out there for over a decade . The same can't be said for LeBron who was e.g. outplayed by Jason Terry 🤦... Also not sure I understand your comment about the league being watered down - MJ dominated in the '80s and '90s i.e. in the eras of Bird, Magic, Olajuwan, Ewing, Shaq, Hardaway, Drexler, Stockton, Malone, Barkley, Wilkins, Payton, Mourning, Miller, Robinson... are you making the argument that LeBron has played most of his career in a strong conference with bad rosters? Because the stats tell the opposite story 🤷‍♂️

[@gggyy7104]

⁠@@JordanHowlettExcept Lebron doesn’t just have stats. He has one of the highest peaks of all time. How is someone who is top 3 in both peak and longevity not top 3 all time? Watered down era means expansion era where Jordan regularly played teams with players that only made a roster due to expansion.

[@JordanHowlett]

@@gggyy7104 when was LeBron's peak? He has never really dominated or changed/challenged the league like many other GOAT candidates. I give him his dues: he has been incredibly good for so incredibly long. However, he has not won more than other players in his own era, even with all of the stacked rosters he hand picked! 🤷‍♂️... as for the expansion argument 🙄 every year there are teams in the NBA who are rubbish. It's a similar argument to the one about how the East (where LeBron has played the most) has been the weaker conference or that the bubble ring is less valid etc.

[@gggyy7104]

@@JordanHowlett His peak from 09-13 is minimum top 5 all time. He won 4 MVPs in 5 seasons, how is that not dominating?

[@phillipschuman4307]

This was a great video, Jonny! Thank you for all you said in it. It seems very wise to me! Let me ask a related question, though. If the GOAT comparison is futile or misguided, what about the other comparisons that are so common? Like Shaq vs. Hakeem, Duncan vs. Kevin Garnett (or Karl Malone), etc. Are those equally overdone and basically impossible to really determine, or more valid, in your opinion?

[@nassiglutt6587]

That bird and magic photo is so iconic. Magic was like "hey ima sneak in" and bird was like "bruh you aint gettin nothing"

[@danielmcfadden2565]

Michael jordan is very articulate

[@osobad1127]

Can we just say: Jordan is beat shooing guard, Lebron is greatest small forward, Magic is best pg, Duncan is best PF, and idk who best center is.

[@josipmarasovic2436]

think it most depends how u want yout team to look what u look from player

[@bluegregory6239]

Kareem or Hakeem?

[@josipmarasovic2436]

@@bluegregory6239 kareem is better but i like more hakeem

[@rebecalinares5393]

No. MJ best all around ever.

[@MoeJaxon]

That would be a better take on it

[@MoeJaxon]

The last part of the video is the best part

[@as_crit4680]

Might be off topic, but could you make a video on the 90s Celtics. Nobody talks about what happened in the time period after Larry bird and before Paul Pierce.

[@Him1496]

Moral of the story, Goku is the greatest basketball player to ever do it.

[@austin5801]

I love engaging in the GOAT debate but at the same time I believe it’s harmful for basketball. To reduce the game to simply just Lebron and Jordan causes others to not appreciate the many great feats of other players.

[@jamoa3395]

Johnny that not the point when the disrespect started to go to older generations and calling them plumbers and firemen and janitors now it shit man, this is old video you did and this is the explanation that people need sometime ❤

[@DrBeauHightower]

Jack Nicklaus and Tiger played in the same field several times including the 1997 Masters. Of course they weren't prime vs prime but I digress

[@rackball5858]

Jack Nicklaus was 57 years old and on the Senior tour. He played the Masters because it’s a lifelong exemption when you win. There’s a 35 year age gap between Tiger & Jack.

[@darwinfinche9959]

Jordan was a 10 time scoring champion and 9x all defense over the same span of time. Top scorer and a top defender. Who accomplished more than that? Also, Jonnys ten year video is another great objective measurement. Factually, Jordan is the goat bc any objective measurement system created would have Jordan as a top five player. What other player has accomplished that? Personally, I believe Wilt is the goat. Objectively, Jordan is the goat.

[@ekamsandhu134]

LeBron is my goat whether you disagree or not

[@darwinfinche9959]

@@ekamsandhu134 how so?

[@ekamsandhu134]

@@darwinfinche9959 Better career, I value career & longevity over peak performance. Lebron been consistently great for 20 years, most of those being MVP caliber years.

[@darwinfinche9959]

@ekamsandhu134 okay. At their peaks, who was a player... LBJ or Jordan? I agree with what you said. Those are all good points. Lbj has longevity...longer peak...and you could make an argument for career. Although, there is more than enough pushback. IMO...being swept twice takes him out the goat conversation. AI got one game from Shaq and Kobe.

[@NamTran-xc2ip]

@@user-qw8hu2gx9jIt’s hard to compare between eras, but personally I really do think MJ is the GOAT because he’s accomplished in everything, team accomplishments, individual accolades, advanced analytics, completeness. But if you say LBJ or Magic or whoever, I have no problem.

[@culture-nature-mobility7867]

It's already hard to tell who's the goat in an individual sport... Basketball is a team sport! 🤷🏻‍♂️ Still going with Jordan 😂

[@Copperplays]

When Kobe said in the next 20 years knowing he died is heart breaking

[@sebastianvalverde50]

At the end I genuiully thought u were going to say "and that's why I wanna to talk to u about today's sponsor: better help"

[@NE81TRO]

Its just too hard to tell who’s better. You have to factor In, Era, Teams, Overall Playing style, Position, Injures (On the Player or there or Opponent teams) so Although I think Jordans the G.O.A.T (Keyword: think) no one will ever win this argument Edit: BTW Im not immune to bias just like everyone else so my opinion might be tainted

[@fortynights1513]

My personal viewpoint is the following (not just with the players thrown in greatest of all time conversations, but several below them too): If you are of the opinion that a player did enough to make the Hall of Fame on the first ballot by consensus, then that player had a darn good career any way you slice it. Not that they don't deserve criticism for their lowest points, or bad performances, but at the end of the day if we agree on that point, then they had a career to be proud of overall, and the comparisons and things we'd be obsessing over would be a whole lot of nitpicking because at the end of the day they are a first ballot Hall of Famer.

[@Herzeder]

I mean you dont need to find who's better, it's not the BOAT debate it's the GOAT debate.

[@demintoscott5779]

MJ23 is the BOSS GOAT 🐐

[@akwesirobinson1710]

Can you do the goat teams in series against each other in what games like tournament

[@Greg-gp6vz]

If you wanna be the best, you have to believe you’re the best, it’s as simple as that, all the greats have confidence in themselves being the best ever, that’s how they got so far, only thing is how public they’ve made that confidence varies. And it depends on the versions, but if we’re talking Superman from the main comics vs Goku from the current manga, I’m taking Goku

[@VincentVincent_89]

Personally I see MJ as the goat but the best player of all time as an individual talent I just have to give it to lebron, I simply can’t fathom to believe what he’s doing for 20+ years straight and he’s still averaging 30 points and still arguably a top 5 player when healthy.

[@strmshadow8411]

I guess this depends how you define talent. Lebron's talent is longevity, genetics and his high BBIQ. In basketball skills he's really one of the least skilled guys in the goat debate, his best offensive skill is finishing around the rim, beyond that although he's added to his game he's nowhere near as skilled as the other guys and lacks the winning resume and accolades as MJ.

[@HarmanHundal01]

Every other GOAT candidate, except Magic, Russell and Duncan would smoke Jordan given the same teammates.

[@strmshadow8411]

@@HarmanHundal01 Which candidates are these? I don't really see many in the GOAT debate. Magic, Kareem, Wilt, Lebron? Lebron wouldn't have stayed with the Bulls long enough for Scotty to blossom. Would not have wanted a old wild Rodman, so I def don't have him there. Wilt had a large issue balancing his scoring vs helping teammates that and he would've been up against more good centers, so I would have him as not likely. You already excluded Magic and if you exclude him I think you would have to Kareem as well since they played together.

[@GatterSzn]

​@@strmshadow8411yes he would have 😂. If LeBron had the bulls front office he prob would stay that long. Ur delusional asf ofc he would leave a team that wouldn't give him good help

[@strmshadow8411]

@@GatterSzn Ah you mean the team that was first in the East when he lost to Dwight? So his team was soo bad that they were top 4 in def and off for 2 year? Net rating of 1 and 2 to be exact. When has Lebron developed a player? When has Lebron listened to a coach? He tried to get Spolestra moved...So no, regardless of what Lebron has he would not have stayed. Lebron is great but would not be where he is today without stacking his teams. So go ahead and call me a "hater" because I know facts.

[@WarrenF19]

I've often shared Jordan's sentiments in that opening clip, but it's been noted in the past how he and Wilt had a GOAT argument on the bus at the NBA50 ceremony, which make those statements hypocritical or flat- out lies. But yeah, my view has always been that it's stupid due to the fact that you can't compare guys from different eras without all things (training, nutrition, rules, league mindset, ect) being equal. Edit: I guess that's what I get for posting while watching lol; Jonny brought it up.

[@mattchooblink]

I cant explain why but self-proclaiming you are the GOAT is not goat-like behavior. But then I think of Ali saying “I am the greatest” is epic af so idk.

[@giosuefierravanti2932]

Jonny, in general I totally agree with everything you said. But if there's a sport in which the vast majority of legends, journalists, experts and fans unanimously agree on one player to be greatest to ever play the game, well, then in my opinion it's no big deal to simply accept and live with it.

[@Herzeder]

That sport isnt basketball tho.

[@donaldf9055]

I think the goat debate is a fun and necessary discussion, but when you get toxic and try to make it seem like there is only one clear winner when in reality context is real and the whole debate is subjective, then it gets toxic and it becomes cringe. My top 3 is easily Russell, bron, and jordan not in any order.

[@megabassxz]

Russell cannot be considered the GOAT when he isn't even the best player in his Era, it was Wilt. Also, any player before the NBA-ABA merger shouldn't be a candidate, since some of the best players are not playing in the NBA at that time but in the ABA so they were not facing the best competition.

[@donaldf9055]

@@megabassxz but russel always dominated wilt and this was an era before the aba. Russell is easily the best defender in NBA history as the stats showcase so meanwhile wilt was the best in the regular season but fell off a cliff in the post season. If you're saying history doesn't count then you're cringe as these are the pioneers of basketball in general. Lastly, Bill Russell will always be my candidate as no matter what anyone says, he was by far the best player on a team that won 11 chips and he was the best defender on one of the best defensive teams in history. When you also add his cultural impact, his clutchness as not only did he get better in the clutch but he's 10 and 0 in game 7s, and his dominance during his time, Russell is easily in MY top 3.

[@megabassxz]

@donaldf9055 True NBA history starts after the merger with ABA because that's the only time where all the best basketball players were truly playing in one league. Any player before that shouldn't be included in the GOAT discussion because they weren't facing the best competition that they could have. You can't argue that Russell dominated Wilt because he didn't, Wilt still had better stats even if his team lost. Just because Russell's team won most of the matches doesn't mean he was better. The 11 rings argument is stupid because Russell played with 4 Hall of Famers, and most of those wins vs. Wilt were single digit close wins, too.

[@megabassxz]

You can even see this in the NBA 2K23 MyEras mode were the first Era you could start in was the 1980s with was with the Bird vs Magic Era. Even the NBA indirectly admits that true NBA history started after the NBA/ABA merger.

[@donaldf9055]

@@megabassxz end of the day, ignoring eras is ignorant, cringe, and disrespectful, and if you want to do that don't discuss basketball with me. Wilt played with all stars as well and later on he played with Jerry west and Elgin Baylor, 2 of the five best players in the league. The nba started in 1967 and before that, bill already had 9 rings so bringing up the merger is ignorant.

[@celtics17banners84]

The goat conversation is stupid whenever it doesn’t include Bill Russell

[@megabassxz]

Why will you include Russell? He wasn't even the best player in his era, it was Wilt. Also, he played pre NBA/ABA merger so that alone disqualifies him since he wasn't facing the best competition because not all the best players were playing in the NBA at that time. And don't mention the 11 championships, he won that with 4 HoF players. Heck, he didn't even win Finals MVP in the only time he could have, West won it.

[@Nok5Z]

You are not fair sir aba did not exist for the majority of Bill Russell career when bill russell played they were fewer teams but that means the talent was placed fairly in the league no team would be without at least one Star you are knocking Bill Russell for not winning FMVP in 1969 ? He was literately 35 years old it was his last year and I guarantee you if FMVP existed before Bill Russell would have multiples and yes he played with HoF but do you think all these HoF players would be HoF if they played with another team or played without him ? Before he was drafted the Celtics did not won 1 title not one yet having Cousy and Sharman two stars the second they drafted him they won titles in 13 years the last one with 35 years old Sam jones 35 years old Bill Russell prime Havlicek and good role players yes Havlicek was the best player in the 1968-1969 titles yet when Bill retires yes and Sam jones mister 10 titles who I can argue is the second most important player behind Bill but Celtics did have Havlicek yet they did not made the playoffs in 1970 this is not luck Bill Russell carried no names to win back to back NCAA titles he had 10 points Kc Jones who is HoF Would be HoF if he did not played with Bill in NCAA and NBA ?

[@CarbonCabron]

The title of this vid sums up the GOAT debate definitely. Some do it by way of extensive research and analysis some by emotional attachment these traits are human. The GOAT debate is only a human thing.

[@johnodaz1273]

Nice Vid and Topic man. I think you can only be the GOAT of your Time n Era, sometimes you might have a Rival like a Bird & Magic or a somewhat Passing of the Torch Crossover like MJ & Kobe. The Biggest Compliment you can give, is the very Best Players can Play in any Era of Time. R.I.P Kobe a True Legend and Great Person.

[@d.ferris3964]

I particularly like that Jordan and Kobe, with articulate detail, tell us why they don’t participate in these debates (whether they are just being humble or don’t care). But Lebron over sings his praises and always has; this is less about being cocky than it is disrespectful to other players. More so for me, Lebron has “given up” too many times in his failings compared to many other all time greats that fit into that GOAT category…and with that he doesn’t outright accept enough accountability as well.

[@jeortiz-luis4288]

lebron has a whole ass team to think for him, his intelligence and logical thinking is very low, he very seldom thinks abt any idea by himself it's always from a PR team he hired them after he got drafted

[@rudy6222]

Only youngins born in the late 90’s think Lebron is better than Jordan when they never seen Jordan really play. Jordan played when they actually played defense and could hand check

[@Spawn3582]

As a rebuttal to this, wasn't it illegal to zone up when MJ played? I have Jordan is my Goat but you have to be willing to admit that the inability to zone up makes it easier for the offense I have way more thoughts on this but to keep it simple, I wanna hear your thoughts

[@phillipcummings3518]

He also didn't stack the deck for himself and then lost

[@mitoski7427]

​@@phillipcummings3518no, the gm did. The 94 bulls were a 55 win team, while the cavs were 4/23 in games when bron didn't play.

[@mikesilva44]

we can all agree that this video is goated plus you added the goku vs superman debate even though goku would turn superman into dust

[@WarioSaysSo]

Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky, Tom Brady etc where all the best playing there respective sport, but you NEVER heard them claiming they where the best or the best ever. They always had the mentality that they can be great at performing there sport and strived for such goals BUT at the same time knew that they are not unbeatble and that other great players exist with similar mindsets competing, so claiming they where better then the rest don't work or is a respectfull nature. PLUS the most important thing they share was that they regarded there performances as a TEAM FACTOR. The team is a machine that stand or fall togheter and that no matter how great you are, you cant be the champion alone with-out a team with you- and behind you! Jordan is a respectfull guy in the end of the day and like displayed here never regards himself or any other athlete greater then the other. He can have a professional opinion on ex. basketball playstyles and who he believes is possibly better at individual skills like; shooting, dribbling, lay-ups, blocking shots, rebounding, defending, fastest playmaker etc. but he will still always give credit to the alternative player for whay he could contribute to a team! But he will not claim any is greater over the other in the end of things.

[@ATroubledGreensLibrary]

🎉❤

[@EnochAlalade]

You were first

[@ATroubledGreensLibrary]

@@EnochAlalade haha well it’s easy to know the instant he publishes since I’m usually sitting on the couch next to him when he does. 😊

[@YmocY]

wait who are you?

[@jonnyarnett]

That's my wife, bruh. lol. She's got an unfair advantage

[@ATroubledGreensLibrary]

@@YmocY his wife. 😊

[@SynisterGT]

When you look at HS, College and NBA careers combined, Kareem has had the greatest career. Take into account he was the all time leading scorer while not having a 3 point game. Think about that for a second, 38K points without 3 pointers. Pure dominance. Jordan was the most impactful for the game as far as influence, and LeBron is the best all around player, followed by Magic imo. There is no GoAT, only greatness across different decades.

[@PedroMendes-ys6xv]

There are a certain dimension in Greatness that demands humbleness and respect for other competitors, specially outside the arena where they compete in, it can be in Sports, Business or whatever other arena inside this big arena that the World is. When you are trully great and On Top of your Area you don't have to self promote or self declare Great, others will for you, some will not mainly because of their own interests but deepdown everyone who's have enought knowledge in that area knows who's the best is. To self declare Great is not necessarely self confidence, it can atually be no self confidence at all...

[@rektscrub8800]

He doesn't do that himself because he knows that's something other people should bestow upon you and he has the self awareness to not self crown himself as the GOAT. Moreover, it's probably pretty obvious to him as it is to anyone who watched them both play that he's in a different universe than LeSwept