Why The GW2 Playerbase NEVER Grows | Guild Wars 2 | MMO Tavern Talk

[@Boo-nx4wk]

Love how these content creators seem to want to tell me what and how I think about Guild Wars 2.

[@reburox]

I mean it depends everything has it good and bad sides. For example imagine if big KZbin-people don't speak up about stuff or enforce the voice of the Playerbase, stuff like 200 bucks deluxe editions would be default or releasing broken games (ubisoft/EA) would be way more commen. In addition to that it makes the company behind a game way more likeable if they talk to people from the Playerbase publicly. And what I think is the most important part is that you 'normally' get independent reviews of games or the current state of a game, Imagine everything on KZbin would be a sponsored review of a game. I guess KZbin is the worst and Best thing for Gaming and maybe is the last resort of the social aspect of MMORPGs. But again its both it depends on what you see in it .

[@Royal.Grand.Majesty]

Trust me, if you think this is anything to go of off, try dealing with the FF14 Cult.

[@LostCauseGamer]

Great video! I think there are many reasons why people join and leave games. Honestly the game is fun, and even though you level up really fast now, I do not see that as a problem. You get to learn your class and work with all of your skills. Granted the game has been around so long that looking a build up is probably the best answer as every build plausible has already been made, but this does not mean the level system is broken. I think it gets people to where they want to be. As for large parts of the game being dead, yes, it can be hard to try and find someone to do that group event you need for a legendary trinket or something. I agree that you need a guild base to get achievements done in a manner such as this, but ultimately you will need a guild and a useful guild not one that doesn't help. I think that can be the biggest issue, is a guild that sucks, or that does not have useful people.

[@Alchemal]

Im a noob player at this game and really enjoy it. However the game suffers from what feels like a quantity over quality approach in terms of gameplay loops, and there's so many convoluted systems, currencies, items etc where it feels like you need to spend a ton of time on the wiki to even figure out what is going into your bags sometimes. I think arenanet needs to find a way to refine and prune what they have. Just a handful of really fun gameplay loops would freshen up so much old "slop" type of content, especially on maps. The issue is they cant sell it as a product as easily (and i would gladly pay), but it seems soooooo important for the long term health of the game. Theres so much underutilized maps that are incredibly awesome and beautiful but you just dont do anything interesting or rewarding on them. Im sure this is true of instances as well. Not everything needs to be a large meta event where you kill a big bad either

[@YasaiTsume]

There definitely needs to have alot more systems improvements and tools for players. The subgroup thing is a huge example. There's also things like Special Action which people routinely miss and need to watch a guide video to even be aware such a button exists for certain content. Regarding your other points.... eh. It's a fair assessment but can't help but feel it's coming from the standpoint of someone who is uninterested in what GW2 offers. Like you said, most MMORPGs have players interacting with the whole game naturally while Gw2 has players split into groups. What you fail to mention is how Gw2 has each game mode provide hours of satisfying gameplay and reasonable reward for the gameplay, so much so that players who are engrossed with that gameplay aren't forced to leave it! That's an amazing thing more games need to do because other games instead FORCE you to leave your comfort gamemode to populate other game modes in an artificial manner because they dangled a reward there you can only obtain from that specific mode. Gw2 so far is the only modern MMO where a player can literally do nothing but X and stay satisfied and unlock many essential items simply by playing ONE MODE. Other MMOs on the other hand bait you with Fomo on rare resources or currency to try stuff you otherwise hate doing or are afraid of doing. Anyway judging by the Janet memes you see here and there, it's safe to say the community isn't so approving of Anet's decisions sometimes. Every mode has points of contention with the devs who love to do willy nilly kneejerk balanced based on how loud people can whine. Rest assured, the Gw2 community will make the devs know where they mess up, while others can simply ignore all the drama and play their game and roll with the changes.

[@icata12345]

I think alot of people [including me at some point in the past] quit the game during the early stages/leveling/main story/ it took me 3 attempts to muster enough patience to get through it.. i wanted to see whats beyond that and why people kept playing, i remember buying PoF, boosting a charachter doing PoF introduction story just to get a raptor and continue leveling my main character without dying inside running everywhere lol.

[@kwaddell]

I don’t know what you’re talking about, I see lots of positivity around Guild Wars 2 with the vast majority of these same people also freely providing constructive criticism on what they would like to see. It sounds like you have a foregone conclusion you’re working backwards from. On the topic of the game doesn’t teach you what alacrity or quickness are, for one, I think a casual player could get by without really paying attention to it, and secondly, more faith should be placed on the player to read tooltips and feel out the effects as they are applied, through experimentation. It serves to make the player feel smart for figuring something out, a staple in any well-designed video game. I mean, if they’re the type of player that needs a little extra tutorial for that, they’re likely to skip through it/not pay attention to the tutorial itself, you know? All that said, some squad organizing QOL would be nice actually. And a common complaint I DO hear is about the staleness of WvW, which I’ve only recently gotten back into myself. As Yoshi-P says about Final Fantasy 14, don’t be afraid to take a break and play something else! I went hard on that game, did the story, did some raiding, had a blast, but then just got kind of bored, so I hung it up for now. And that’s fine and normal.

[@slytherben]

Playing WoW music while discussing GW2

[@reburox]

Yeah I know. For some strange reason Gw2 Players really like WoW. Not sure why . Maybe it is because both Games accomplish each other so well.

[@Zoey-TV]

i think the state gw2 is in rn is good for an 12 yr old mmo that always kind of relied on "word by mouth" marketing rather than big marketing campaigns like for example WoW does. The only real Problem with the LFG i see personally is that it is pretty cluttered so sometimes it takes you longer to find the tab where you want to go but what do you want to expect for an UI designed 12 years ago, no idea how that could even be improved. Marking people in squads would be an interesting idea like colorizing the squad members as a commander, but you would already be restricted by effects that change the color of yourself in a squad anyway like the thiev shroud makes your HP Bar go purple, downstate makes it go red..Yellow comes from barrier.. i believe it would be hard to choose colors for that but it would actually be a win, i agree on that. IMO Guild Wars 2 is also designed in a way that you can take a break for sometime and come back when you feel like it. It's not like you're paying monthly just to gain the ability to play the game which is awesome and why i love it since. Also it's a bit sad that we dont get any individual Birthday gifts since 10th anniversary...

[@tattoomagic6110]

I just recently started playing and bought all the expansions. But as soon as I got to the skyscale grind (even though SoB one) i realized maybe the game isn’t for me. Having something so essential locked behind that grind and egg rng just to annoying. And before everyone tries to say it’s not essential. Try joining HP trains without it. Time gates just don’t feel good. Gw2 the casual mmo yet I feel it’s more of a grind then any mmo I’ve played. And nothing really feels satisfying. Being forced into crafting etc idk i rather run a dungeon 1000 times for a drop. Then play 100 hours in gw2 and my character feel exactly the same as when I started.

[@reburox]

Yeah, maybe a legacy currency would be a smart idea where you can do what ever and exchange it for one 'Global'-token. Could also be fatal for the game and make only one thing reasonable to play. But you could make it into something that rotates weekly ...maybe something can be found in that idea

[@tattoomagic6110]

@@reburox that’s actually a good idea. I love the actual feel of gw2 combat and character design/builds. But not feeling any character progression, just kills it for me.

[@nellone]

i have 4.5k hours in this game and i love it, but i think they should work on refining the old content instead of continually inject new stuff, they should remake the old maps, renew dungeons and dragon resoponse missions, new players flux is essential for the health of any playerbase and sadly they are doing too few and bad for them.

[@Boo-nx4wk]

They are going to do that. Keep up now.

[@HEldar-bx6rk]

I'm rather new (level 40 on first character) but this kade sense to me. It felt like the only time the game told me anything about pvp or dungeons was if I clicked the info symbol after a level up reward. Would be nice if in the faction capital or Lion's Arch at some point the story had an npc built into the main story that just said "Welcome to [city]. In your downtime, talk to this person to my right about dungeons where we need groups for special missions and this person to my left about battles against others like you." Something to remind the player "hey maybe the tooltip for your level up came up when you felt you were not in the right place and time for pvp but rest assured you are at an appropriate level and here is a hook to link it to the world you are in."

[@nicojii_]

I like your tile color idea. I've thought of maybe free foods at spawn, character profiles, free templates, or gear inspection, but your idea of different colored tiles for different roles is something I can imagine being in the game. If Anet implements your idea, I might get excited enough to actually buy the last two xpacs xP

[@fatmanpez]

I've been playing for 9 years and I love the game as a PvE player but you do bring up good points that they should better explain or revamp some in-game systems because I did have to learn how some things functioned on my own, the reason that didn't bother me is because the community was kind enough to tell me in the in-game chat and there were plenty of resources online to tell me, Gw2 is unique to have such a friendly community and that is probably why a lot of us overlook that. Now I do agree with what you're saying about groups being divided, some players do a mix of things, my Guild does a lot of PvE Metas and Fractals but I've never had an interest to try Raids, didn't care for PvP and WvW is ok but not my thing. I'm not sure how exactly they bring those communities together because they are just different play styles and the PvP community especially is the only one that has a reputation of being less kind to players just starting out or players whoa aren't playing the current Meta builds of their classes. I don't know what would make players interested in mingling or seeing the other modes unless there was like a Spectator mode or Leaderboards in Lion's Arch for WvW/ PvP, if that would even work I'm unsure because I don't play those modes enough really. The biggest thing that makes us smaller than the other big Mmos is really just Gw isn't part of a bigger established Ip like Warcraft or Final Fantasy, it was never on console like Destiny so it's a proxy in the Mmo world that a lot of people get into and are surprised at how well it does the Events, Festivals, Questing ect but it still has a hard time bringing in new players unfortunatly. Overall as much as I love the game I do thing you offer great constructive criticism and think it is insightful.

[@reburox]

I mean there are a lot of big issues the most urgent one is that every game mode is basically isolated and nothing added by Arenanet is supposed to bring more people into a different game mode. New PvP tournaments are cool but for who? Merging ranked and unranked would make more sense. World restructuring to play with your guild is cool but it changes nothing. Adding new events on WvW maps would make more sense. New Raid sounds cool but what does it change? It just feeds into the weekly farm routine of people who already play it anyway. Reworking Dungeons and making people play ingame mechanics would make more sense. A lot of small changes could have an bigger impact on the game and revitalize old stuff but for some reason it doesn't happen. It very much feels like Gw2 'nowadays' is designed by people who go full META-Gameplay no matter what. (PvP/WvW/farming)

[@fatmanpez]

@@reburox That makes sense with WvW, PvP and Raids, it really us hard to pull people into those modes because they are intimidating for someone who has a great experience soley in the PvE experience and trying to get into them is a mixed bag. WvW isn't that hard to get into but 2/3 times it's not as likely someone will explain the mechanics to you in the WvW maps rather someone in Lion's Arch would explain it better, PvP you're dealing with players who live for that and dip if someone in their squad isn't up to par with them, Raids I really don't know because I haven't done them. Perhaps doing Instanced Bot-Based Tutorial sections or Training sections to get a feel for the modes could be welcoming, and have Portals to those in particular near the area of Lion's Arch by the Forge that everyone gathers around? In regards to Dungeons they do need to be reworked and honestly just given more life because the ones that are there are great but there's little reason for people to return to them especially with them not being part of the regular Dailies anymore like they were. There's Dungeon Rush every once in a while but outside of that nothing.

[@oybeutu]

I have played GW2 a few times. Recent times it was for WvW only but I was very dissatisfied but I do like things about it still. I suspect the money to keep the game going is not in WvW. I wanted there to be more incentive to win. As a returning player, I'm finally enjoying the Story mode and so I'm playing it from Heart of Thorns final parts all the way through to the current expansion. I'm taking it slow and solo. For single player, I really like it. People sometimes ask, why play an mmorpg as solo. It's for the atmosphere of people, which is nice. No expectations by anyone on my pace or performance but I can take part in conversations on /map chat. After all of these years, to be able to jump back in and not be far behind in gear, is great. I'm actually surprised that doing all of the stories is more expensive than I realized. Making myself read dialog has been good and I'm not bored by it for once. As for advancements, I kind of want a GW3 and let the current game cruise control until Ashes of Creation becomes a thing. I want a reason to WvW again, we'll see. Build craft is really what I'm liking the most outside of Story. I'm not sure if they are able to grow without expensive new payrolls from hiring and taking risks.

[@reburox]

Yeah, I am still not sure if it is a smart decision for a long running MMO like WoW, Gw2 or FFXIV to go for a sequel. If I have to guess Guild wars 3, which by the way was never mentioned it was called a new game within the Guild wars IP a lot of KZbin people fired out the word Gw3, is not an MMORPG. Most likely it could be something similar to Monster Hunter or a completely different Genre. Blizzard did the exact same make FPS, MOBAs and what ever and maybe people go and play WoW.. so it would make sense if Arenanet develops a 'Guild wars 5-Man extraction dungeon thingy' and maybe some people like it and go play Guild wars 2.

[@biyaogw2]

I'm not a GW2 hater, in fact I am a huge fan of the game, but I have become an Arenanet critic and I do not believe in most of the current devs employed at that studio to be able to make GW2 the game it deserves to be. Huge difference.

[@crow_buddy]

I agree with your point about a lack of in-game resources. It would be cool if some of the easier/low intensity Snowcrows builds were pre-loaded into a new character, a free build template, and this became available once they've fully unlocked their Specialization. It would be a way of Anet communicating: "Hey, you just learned Herald? Cool, there's a lot you don't know yet. Here's a pre-made build that provide 100% Quickness and good damage. This gets your foot in the door to end-game." There could be a summary of the build, and a quest which shows you where the golem training room is. This teaches people how to learn to check their DPS without downloading Arc. Maybe offer some example rotations in the golem room. Just a thought.

[@hahabanero]

Why? Everything is in the metabattle, guild jen, etc. You just need to copy and paste build, ease as that. When you buy a expansion you also get stuff for new character - lvl 80 boost and all the gear with the ascended stats, so you can start from this point and change build later for your need.

[@missk1697]

@@hahabanero You dont get ascended gear from boosts.

[@hahabanero]

@@missk1697 ascended gear is for progression - you want complete end game build from start? C'mon :)

[@crow_buddy]

​@@hahabanero More accessibility to in-game knowledge is a positive thing. Do new lvl 80 players even know about the golem training room? Do they understand what DPS is, how it applies to group content, and that they can use the golem room to benchmark their DPS and learn rotations? Do they understand that within GW2's end-game, there's a bunch of pre-defined group roles (Quick DPS, Alac Heal, etc.), and they'll be expected to fill one? This can be a lot. Reburox discussed all these points, and they're fair questions to ask. Do new end-game folks even understand Alacrity & Quickness? The point is, GW2 is very easy till lvl 80, and much more complex afterwards. As it stands, there's nothing in-game to prepare that player for making that huge transition. This can overwhelm folks who aren't MMO savvy. Ultimately, there's nothing wrong with having both; players can benefit from external resources like Snowcrows or gw2efficiency, and also have in-game resources.

[@hahabanero]

@@crow_buddy it's GW2, you don't need benchmarks, you can do ALL the content with quite mediocre build. Will it be fast, easy or optimized play - no, will it be doable and fun? Yes. For excel players, there are tons of other mmos. I recommend Eve online for those who need tons of tables, numbers and love spreadsheets.

[@PannkakaMedSylt]

I don’t really agree with this belief that most focus on 1 aspect of the game and nothing more. Almost everyone I know in the game basically do everything! Open world content, and finnish all masteries, do achivement hunting and so on. Do WvW. They raid, and do instances. They like the storylines. They do Meta trains and map farms. They do races & adventures. Almost all have long term goals for multiple legenderies from different sources. Map completions. SPvP. I feel 90% of people I know do it all. And been playing since game released 2012.

[@ZanesZygot]

True, some people that focus on only thing obviously exist and it's GOOD that the game can cater to them easily, which can't be said for almost no other mmo.

[@reburox]

Nah I am pretty sure that in Guild wars alot of people play exclusively one thing, unless you are part of a guild or discord that does everything. Maybe it would be a smart idea to rework guild advertisements ingame I barely see that in chat or the lfg-panel ... could be a way to suck new people right into the action.

[@RandomPlayIist]

I hung up my commander tag when they dropped the June 2023 balance patch and didn't list to the overwhelming warrior feedback to the many changes they made, especially to arc divider. I went from logging in every day for 8 years, running dead content for large groups, fostering community, helping new players, championing the game, to just quitting. I never even bothered to download that patch, I just uninstalled and haven't been back. I have a history of leaving games at just the right time, right before the fall. GW2 has hit its peak and it's in decline.The blame is on NCSoft for not funding the game enough to police bots, fix bugs, and hire good balance devs.

[@byronicmaren2709]

Thank you for this video. Tried of people saying the game is perfect with no faults.

[@ShaikuraJarfaru]

To much masteries grinding for me.

[@twilighthope5821]

Gw2 player here. I am positive for many things, but I am also critical about some things the Dev do. However I do NOT use Twich, I choose NOT to have solcial media(X, Instagram, Facebook...). Many of my friends in game are like me. I feel insulted in your beginning of the video calling me part of a cult.

[@reburox]

According to your comment that is basically impossible.

[@machoalright]

its simple why it never grows. Its a problem not only with GW2 but also other mmo's. they focus more on SP instead of playing with others. So it never grows because it does not want you to play with others. Its a simple fact on this great game. I just noticed i stopped playing this game after a long time i think about 10 years in and i stopped. And than it hit me. I hardly play with others because its a very introvert game that noone wants to interact with other people. So i moved on to anotther game that does.

[@reburox]

Yeah you can still find alot of player interaction on private servers (p99) or .. I currently play a diablo 2 Mod called Project diablo 2 but even there everything has mostly shifted to Discord. But yeah you can basically play gw2 open world for years and not typing a single thing in chat.

[@hectamus_]

I love Guild Wars 2, and have played it on and off since launch. But, unfortunately, the game does not do enough to really keep me for extended periods of time. There just isn't much of an incentive to stay. Not sure what it is, but you hit a lot of points here.

[@happensyes]

I wouldn't blame the twitch community , i'll explain why . Our content creators are not hot on Twitch , that's the truth . I personally didn't buy the JW expansion , at this point there is just not enough interesting stuff to pull me back to play the game . People say that we have too much elite specs but i just disagree . Without elite specs for me it's just not worth buying the new expansion . I did this mistake with SotO just becaue of the fake " legendary " relic lol this was epic fail on Anet's part . Imagine having a legendary that is not even legendary because you have to unlock stuff via achievements lmao no thanks bozos . The loot is extremely boring in GW2 . Keep in mind i am full legendary , i'm talking 3/3 raid sets trinkets rings backpack everything . " But it's about the skins " see this approach would be great if almost everything worth a look wasn't locked behind the Gemstore . Literally any form of player interest . Clearly their new expansion model doesn't work for me , so i just won't buy their expansions anymore . I do like the game but i'm not the target audience anymore . See that one shield ( Herald of Zakarum ) from Diablo 2 that you use in the video has more hype attached to it and more personality than the entire loot table in GW2 . Also the Suramar music never fails.

[@reburox]

Yeah loot in gw2 is really boring. But I guess that is the price we have to pay for a F2P Game + Cashshop. I was kinda hoping that The housing system makes loot interesting again (cool unique furniture) but that has turned into a ..unfortunately no.

[@dfg12382]

The playerbase IS in fact growing for the past 2 years. This is a "you"-issue, not a game issue. You sound so depressed about the game, trying to find weird explanations for it (it has nothing to do with the bad LFG system, trust me). Sure, a lot of things could be better - but that's true for everything in life. The game is fun. I'm having blast in my raid-teaching guild, explaining new players what quickness and alacrity are, grinding some legendaries, 100%ing the Janthir achievements, doing some PvP. You're just done with the game. It happens - move on.

[@missk1697]

Average gw2 fan copium. Zero proper response to Reburox's arguments, anecdotal evidence of "Oh the game is so great for me!", and telling him to uninstall.

[@dfg12382]

​ @missk1697 Because there were no good arguments. The playerbase not growing is simply false as reported by Anet, new content being "bland" is subjective and I feel differently. I didn't tell him to uninstall, I'm happy for everyone who's staying - but he is not having fun and that's when you should move on on your own behalf (happened to me many times with many games, no biggie). Him then making remarks about the bad LFG or that quickness and alacrity isn't properly explained by the game (which I agree with) is absolutely irrelevant for a Veteran like him and proof that his mind is completely centered on the negative - do that in any game and you'll get to the same outcome. He is subjectively not having fun anymore - many others are. Let me know about his other arguments that I have missed, I'm happy to discuss.

[@MangyB4033]

@@missk1697 Not everything is a debate. End of Dragons was confirmed by Anet to be their bestselling expansion. That's growth. People act like the GW2 community isn't critical but they are very critical. Just look at SoTO. The difference between GW2 players is that they are still having fun despite those criticisms. You can't say that about WoW for example. Many WoW players actively hate playing half the time but they are too invested in that world to just quit.

[@Soul_Wizard_Of_Lemuria]

GW2 fan copium spotted. Twitch and Steam numbers will tell you that it is indeed declining.

[@MangyB4033]

@@Soul_Wizard_Of_Lemuria That doesn't actually tell you anything. It's not actual data. I wouldn't be surprised if the numbers were down right now anyway. MMO populations aren't stable. The new content has been out long enough for fans to finish it until the next patch. You might be stupid so I understand if none of that makes sense to you.

[@somederp8915]

To be fair, gw2 critique is still more civil than trying to critique FF14. If you ever want to see toxic positivity manifest as a community, try voicing criticism about FF14 overusing tropes like Time Travel or are too affraid to actually go through with heroic sacrifices any more.

[@reburox]

I mentioned FF14 once in one random video and I got caught by ff14 players instantly...^^ And I made the mistake to say that the story at the beginning is too much.

[@xRevTheoryx]

12 years with no significant updates and we wonder why PvP is not popular?

[@ajbackfromthedead]

Move on bro, find another game

[@missk1697]

"Just uninstall!" point on bingo card checked. No substantial response, checked.

[@Gobbledi_Gook]

Bro has been making largely negative content about GW2 for a while now lmao just grow up and move on, clearly the game isn’t for you anymore.

[@Gobbledi_Gook]

Oh wait he’s gotta farm engagement lmaooo

[@hugon3895]

What a bullshit. This "play your way" aproach is exactly why people prefere to play GW2 (or ESO) over other MMOs. This do a little of everything aproach like in WoW is not players choice but it artificialy forced on them. There are Blizzard (and other companies) employes which made multiple public lectures about why they try to do that and SPOILER ALERT is not because of players enjoyement. In WoW for example there where multiple cases when there was massive exodus of players because some of that forced activities where extremely unpopular (garrisons and thorgast for example) and people couldn't not doing them because of that "progrssion". You constantly talk about "progression" but what you realy mean is "vertical progression" but in GW2 (or ESO) there is "horizontal progrssion" and there is a lot of it. You don't like it, that's ok. Play your way :) The lack of constantly increasing item level has serious consequenses which are, once content is added it is alway relevant (for the most time). It's completelay different to WoW like MMOs where the game is basicaly not growing over time. In WoW you always have 6 dungoens and 2 raids of meaningfull content. It was like that 15 years ago and it is like that right now. In games without vertical progression the game can actually grow in size over time. And we know even WoW players like to experience old content as it was relevant because WoW Classic exists.

[@neopolitaneagle212]

i is growing least to me it seems like it lol

[@cheerfulgestalt3282]

It'll die out now that GW3 was confirmed, it's a dead MMO on confirmed timed life.

[@gronkhfp]

But gw3 is years maybe decades away. For me GW2 is pretty alive. Always this negative talk since launch but GW2 is still one of the big 3 mmos

[@hahabanero]

Sure, like gw1 is dead because of gw2... oh wait :)

[@reburox]

*copied message because someone was saying the same* I am still not sure if it is a smart decision for a long running MMO like WoW, Gw2 or FFXIV to go for a sequel. If I have to guess Guild wars 3, which by the way was never mentioned it was called a new game within the Guild wars IP a lot of KZbin people fired out the word Gw3, is not an MMORPG. Most likely it could be something similar to Monster Hunter or a completely different Genre. Blizzard did the exact same make FPS, MOBAs and what ever and maybe people go and play WoW.. so it would make sense if Arenanet develops a 'Guild wars 5-Man extraction dungeon thingy' and maybe some people like it and go play Guild wars 2.

[@Royal.Grand.Majesty]

This claim is clearly dead in the water, as GW1 still exists.

[@ForbiddenPizza]

Combat is beyond awful. That's why I cant get into the game, no matter how hard I try.

[@NycroLP]

Please elaborate. How is it awful?

[@biyaogw2]

hyperbole: There are very few skillchecks in the game and the single question they do ask you is: do you have stability or a dodge left? But most of the time the only skillcheck actually asked is: Do you have enough dps to skip the intended skill check. Exciting gameplay.

[@ForbiddenPizza]

@@biyaogw2 I'm not sure if you understood my comment. The gist is "combat is not fun for me"

[@Royal.Grand.Majesty]

Seems like you've only played BDO or Retail WoW, as in terms of combat and fluidity, those are the only 2 MMO's that can compete with GW2 combat. Give FF14, ESO, SWTOR, RS3, OSRS, New World, Neverwinter, Maplestory, Lost Ark, Albion Online, LOTRO or any other MMO's not listed and come tell us how you felt.

[@ForbiddenPizza]

@@Royal.Grand.Majesty A game with worse combat doesn't make another one's combat better. If logic can be sounds, yours is definitely silent lol