Why The Imperial Legion Always Wins

[@aceaj2620]

Imagine if a whole army of imperials used voice of the emperor. They’d just walk around killing the elves that can’t fight back

[@theneocypher]

If only it were that powerful lol

[@HeldIntegral]

VotE irl is just saying "everybody calm down 😮" and ppl actually listening

[@budgetproductions1178]

I think you can use voice of the emperor because you are an imperial and dragonborn, emperors were dragonborns in the past.

[@dodger217]

​@@budgetproductions1178Ya but the neravarine also has voice of the emperor, and he/she wasn't blessed with super cool shouting powers.

[@justnoone5734]

I don't know why but I get the feeling that this channel will slowly transition to a Roman history channel sooner or later.. And I am fucking here for it.

[@theneocypher]

Aeternit Imperi Roma Victrix!

[@justnoone5734]

@@theneocypher Roma Invicta!

[@crusader2112]

I prefer Medieval Christendom, but Rome’s cool too. Even if it was hedonistic.

[@buuuuuuurn-the-heretic]

THE PRINCEPS PROTECTS!

[@teyrncousland7152]

@@crusader2112What about Byzantines then?

[@forgototherpassword]

A fun take I heard once: The reason the Imperial army is primarily local conscripts is because Skyrim actually being captured is a secondary objective. Their primary objective in the Skyrim Civil War(tm) is to be a distraction for the Aldmeri Dominion to trick them into thinking the Empire is doing anything they can to win. Meanwhile the Empire is actually preparing their real forces for the upcoming Thalmor invasion. The Empire, regardless of success or failure, does not see the conflict as worth risking large numbers of their actual experienced troops. "Oh the Pale Pass is snowed in, we can't _possibly_ reinforce our army in Skyrim with our elite troops!" Said the emperor, as he took his ship capable of taking entire battalions to Skyrim to mourn is cousin's death (and get assassinated possibly on purpose) in the Dark Brotherhood story.

[@theneocypher]

I absolutely love this theory. Needs to be canon honestly

[@DominionSorcerer]

It's an interesting theory, but one glaring issue with it is that the Stormcloaks if they capture Fort Neugrad will mention the Imperial reinforcements stuck behind the Pale Pass and recognise it as a huge threat to their position in southern Skyrim.

[@cantmossadtheassad9952]

The stormcloaks should be more worried about the (I'd estimate) around 30% of nords who support the empire, if the imperial legion can coordinate legions from bruma and high rock with pro imperial rebels throughout western skyrim then the stormcloaks have a massive issue and that's not even taking into account the forsworn insurgency and the massive bandit problem, honestly the stormcloaks should just cut their losses and make peace with the empire in exchange for ulfric becoming the high king of an independent eastern skyrim, it would let pro imperial skyrim remain part of the empire, let the empire deal with the forsworn and half the bandits, keep imperial supply lines to and from high rock intact, and allow the empire(and it's east skyrim allies) to redeploy troops south to the empire-dominion border, independent east skyrim could have open talos worship(the empire never enforced the ban and funnily enough it was ulfric's hissy fit over it that drew the dominion's attention and why there are so many justiciars crawling around skyrim) and in the event that the empire-east skyrim(and most likely hammerfell) alliance is able to outright defeat or at least give the dominion a good enough ass whooping that the peace treaty will be in the empire's favor then east skyrim(and quite possibly hammerfell) could be reintegrated into the empire because the issues that drove them to leave are no longer in play

[@forgototherpassword]

@@cantmossadtheassad9952 While I get your intent, splitting Skyrim into seperate Eastern and Western countries is the last thing either side wants from the conflict. Ulfric is high on his own ego, and wants to be completely undisputed as high king. He doesn't want to rule half of Skyrim, he wants all of it. The Empire wants, ideally, to be prepared for what the Thalmor are already calling the Second Great War with Humanity or something like that. Splitting Skyrim and letting it self-govern and do Talos worship would likely set off the Aldmeri Dominion's invasion early, citing it as breaking the White-Gold Concordant. This would be the Empire's worst-case scenario. In addition, another reason the Empire likely wants a united Skyrim under their banner, would be to have a united front for that same coming war. It's easier to coordinate troops in a large-scale war if they're all under one banner rather than two.

[@gustavsvasa3768]

imperial fans are cutely stupid

[@williamfrank962]

Fun fact: of all the things cut from Skyrim the civil war was the most egregious. The civil war was supposed to be devastating as you’d constantly run into battles between imperials and stormcloaks, magic users would be present in the fighting for imperials while stormcloaks used giants and mythical beasts, each hold you were meant to fight over in battle and you had the possibility of losing it. It was simply too grand for them to implement.

[@imperialtrooper927]

Oh well that sucks to hear then. Like the more I read it, the more I wish there'd be a mod or smth to implement that, or maybe a Skyrim remake? Like you can actually run into battles between Imperials and Stormcloaks in the game, but in most cases, it's only a 3v3 or 2v2, and that's just about it, really

[@Deltasoldier89]

There are mods that add it back in. I'm playing one right now and it's BADASS

[@scottm8292]

@@Deltasoldier89 Which mod(s)?

[@xardes8326]

What's the name od mods​@@Deltasoldier89

[@tomaszpawlik5091]

uriel was basically the most lucky SoaB to ever walk, 4 games out of 5 have some rando schmuck becoming hero of legend and saving his backside in the process

[@theneocypher]

🤣

[@tomaszpawlik5091]

@@theneocypher kinda like zelda now that i think about it

[@baronbrummbar8691]

more like he was litrally chosen by the gods which created champs for him

[@tomaszpawlik5091]

@@baronbrummbar8691 being this greater than life demigod king by birthright certainly helped.

[@just.a.guy324]

The nerevarine was chosen, yes, but it’s pretty clear in morrowind that the nerevarine’s appearance in morrowind was politically engineered to solve festering religious and cultural issues with the imperial occupation

[@vulpesinculta3238]

The real reason why they won't let the Empire die: because Bethesda have a commercial hard-on for the Empire in the Elder Scrolls universe in the same way they have a hard-on for the Brotherhood of Steel in the Fallout universe. It's too recognizable - and too profitable, merch-wise - for them to let it die.

[@theneocypher]

Facts ☝️

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

That and modern Bethesda is incapable of making anything new that could replace it.

[@cantmossadtheassad9952]

Idk they pushed you towards the stormcloaks in skyrim, that being said the empire is almost synonymous with the elder scrolls because the first four games take place in the empire around the time of it's height and it's somewhat unique compared to other fantasy settings in that it(usually) has almost total hegemony over the game world itself as well as most of the places we hear of in game that aren't far across the sea, in a different plane of existence, or outright mythological, while most other fantasy settings might have big empires but other polities are still around or are a patchwork of city states, tribes, and small to medium sized kingdoms

[@luciusdomitiusaurelianus8826]

@vulpesinculta3238 I agree. And whilst I don't want the Empire to disappear from the setting (I'm too Romaboo for that), I am not against a reduced size Empire, similar to what we have now. That way there is more room for political intrigue and conflicts among various states in Tamriel.

[@MeTaLISaWeSoMe95]

​@Lobsterwithinternet can you just stop? Bethesda hasn't stopped being a good company. For Christ's sake you cry babies are annoying.

[@DevelopmentRobco]

I'm glad they went back to their roots in Skyrim. In Oblivion the empire was just a generic medieval LoTR kingdom and not much more. Morrowind had the best imperial quest line and really showed the Roman like hierarchy and political power of the Empire that Skyrim I think tried to replicate.

[@Treasure_hunter_21]

Oblivion Armor sets are still better.

[@just.a.guy324]

Its because of SET and SETTING. Oblivion is set in cyrodiil, of course it’s gonna be glazing and optimistic about the empire because it’s set in the imperial heartland at the peak of their influence. Morrowind is set in a Far East theocracy under military occupation by the empire, against its people’s will. Skyrim is 200 years after the end of the septim dynasty and in the middle of a civil war. Writing isn’t random, writers don’t, or at least they didn’t used to, just do things at random

[@DevelopmentRobco]

@@just.a.guy324 that's not at all what I mean, the aesthetic and environment of Cyrodiil was going to be much different than oblivion, keeping the Roman aesthetic of Morrowind and instead of a generic medieval setting and environment, it was going to be a lush jungle in the center with hints of each province at each of its borders (i.e. more deserted bordering hammerfell, more tropical bordering elsweyr, more mountainous bordering Skyrim, etc.)

[@dickyboi4956]

Also wrong. If we could match the pixel count and graphics werent a factor, morrowinds legionaires had the sickest drip but without that the imperial armor in skyrim looks way cooler and less generic than oblivions.​@@Treasure_hunter_21

[@sercravenmohead3631]

@@just.a.guy324 That’s actually not 100% true, House Hlaalu is pro-Empire and they benefit from trade and relations. The Empire doesn’t occupy all of Morrowind, they just have a status quo neutrality agreement between the Tribunal and Tiber Septim. The Empire does want to end the slave trade so that’s why tensions are exist but it’s more of a soft power influence rather than direct occupation. Ashlander Dunmer are indifferent and more at odds with the Dunmer houses than the Empire. Telvanni also doesn’t seem to express any outward aggression to the Empire it’s mainly the Tribunal and Redoran that are staunch anti-Empire.

[@oregano7649]

from what I understand, the stormcloacks are able to balance the fight with numbers. General Tulius says that Ulfrick is throwing troops on them, but they´re beeing able to defend. And legate rikke reforces this saying that "more and more people join the stormcloack cause every day"

[@theneocypher]

I would agree

[@DominionSorcerer]

But that will only last for as long as the Imperials in Skyrim are fighting with local auxiliaries, once the proper Imperial Legion Tullius is supposed to lead crosses the oversnowed mountain passes into Skyrim the Stormcloaks are done for.

[@oregano7649]

@@DominionSorcerer Yeah, but the veteran legionnaires will never come. At the beginning of the civil war, Tullius says that the Emperor already refuses to send reinforcements. And, well, by the end of the civil war, the war is over, so this fact doesn' t really matter. There is no "If". The lore doesn' t allow it

[@DominionSorcerer]

@@oregano7649 the lore very much explicitly allows it? The Legion Tullius himself is leading and more is stuck behind the Pale Pass separating Skyrim from Cyrodiil due to avalanches. The stormcloak Missive in Fort Neugrad even mentions just how much of a game changer the arrival of those forces would be. Tullius just rode ahead of it to salvage the situation as quickly as he could.

[@sukitron5415]

​@@DominionSorcererisn't that legion newly drawn up just for the civil war? As the emperor doesn't want to move any troops from the border with the dominion

[@corn776]

I’m getting the feeling this guy likes Roman factions

[@theneocypher]

You don’t say

[@nodosa994]

​@@theneocypherUltra Marine video when?

[@jetsetradio7715]

"Why The Imperial Legion Always Wins" Unless they are fighting a Akavirian/Tsaesci military.

[@theneocypher]

Facts 😂

[@qwopiretyu]

The Blades, a secret organization of the Legion, ARE an Akaviri/Tsaesci military

[@planetofthegames2843]

*Reman enters the chat*

[@jetsetradio7715]

@@qwopiretyu well they were looking for a dragonborn to serve during that invasion so they succeeded in what they were aiming by forming the Blades once they found Reman, but when the empire itself invaded Akavir the Tsaesci pretty easily defeated them and killed Uriel V.

[@kraio-sfu]

@@qwopiretyuthis isn’t true, they use akaviri weaponry, but they are not from akavir

[@alfiereimperiale7697]

personally, I would compare the Empire's gear and tactics (in the Mede era, at least) more to the Late Roman army than the classical era one. It's a dying empire, it has to adapt to that. And the prevalence of lightly armored soldiers over heavy infantry is a sign in that direction.

[@theneocypher]

The late Roman Legions would have wiped the floor with the Imperial Roman Legions.

[@derekneese9497]

​@theneocypher How so? Not questioning your assessment, just genuinely curious. I only have a passing familiarity with the differences between late and early roman legions so I'm wondering what differences make the later armies better able to defeat an earlier one

[@alfiereimperiale7697]

@@derekneese9497 the late roman army differs in tactics, gear, equipment and organisation from its early and classical counterparts. Considering the fact that Rome is on the defensive side, they exchanged the heavy infantry focused classical panoplia for a mobility focused one. They created a lightly armed and armored corp called the limitanei, that were farmer-soldiers stationed at the borders of the empire to create a first line of defence and pin the invaders. While the limitanei fought, the "diocesan legions" were called, the legions stationed in every province (diocesis) capital to repel invasions. They were heavily armed and armored and had a lot of cavalry on their side, something that early and classical Rome never had. Both emperors, the one in the West and the one in the East, had their own élite legion, the Comitatenses Palatini, that were stationed near the capital and protected it and the imperial family. Finally, Late Rome relied a lot on mercenaries, often from german tribes.

[@alfiereimperiale7697]

@@theneocypher probably, although the roman legion never had army mages that shot fireballs to count on.

[@LibraritheWizardOfficial]

​@@alfiereimperiale7697 As usual, Wizards Ruin Absolutely Everything 😂

[@NPazable]

Personally I feel like the dragonborn ought to amass an army of dragons and rule Skyrim instead of either imperials or stormcloaks but nobody at Bethesda will take my calls

[@Geraduss]

Let me rephrase that, the Dragonborn by the very fact of what he/she is can claim the throne of Cyrodil, since only someone who is Dragonborn has the right to sit on the Ruby throne. So no matter weather weather he/she supports the imperials or stormcloaks they can just ussurt the leading position and march an army plus dragon's south and claim the throne. Plus as we know that if all faction endings are canon the Emperor is dead and the throne is vacant.

[@theneocypher]

Pick up the phone, Todd..

[@banegas0411]

​@@Geraduss at the same time its been 200 years since there was a dragon emperor and since the dragon fires have been out for 200 years the dragonborn will only be capable of mustering a very very small army as they no longer have any right or claim to rule which came entirely from the need of having the dragonfires lit no dragonfire no need for a dragonborn emperor only claim left is for the dragonborn is to appeal to a 200 year old dead tradition

[@qhu3878]

​​@@banegas0411 if an imperial dragonborn was to get tullius to march south under the banner of a new empire and march into the imperial city. the elder council cant just say no to the entirety of skyrims military, maybe bruma along the way, and a person who might have the strongest claim to the ruby throne and has at least 2 dragons with them when the empire is preparing for war with the dominion. edit, I wasnt sure what a stormcloak dragonborn might do but I suppose the same thing if tullius' only real issue was talos worship being banned

[@banegas0411]

@@qhu3878 what tulius has is a very very small part of the imperial forces the rest are in cryodiil preparing for the next great war and a dragonborn no longer has any claim to the throne if a chinese emperor came back from one of the dynasties they wouldnt have any claim to rule either most of the dragons have most likely isolated themselves willingly or under Paarthurnax orders why should they listen to db and fly to war

[@zackcook5123]

One thing i find interesting is the final battle for each. Tulius coordinates a defence until the end. Ulfrik is on his throne wanting a proper final battle

[@theneocypher]

Yes. It speaks to their leadership priorities

[@Mateus_Pereira_Silva]

This just proves how stupid Ulfric is. He just needed to stand on the bridge that leads to the entrance of Windhelm while casting Unrelating force. It will force the Legion to enter through the harbour, where the majority of his forces can be stationed.

[@teyrncousland7152]

@@Mateus_Pereira_SilvaAnd then he would take an arrow to the throat and targeted as the sole voice user. Ulfric is many things but not a fool.

[@Mateus_Pereira_Silva]

@@teyrncousland7152 bro, just use a shield. And you seriously think the voice can't push back a volley of arrows? Also, the average soldier doesn't have the aim to hit someones throat at a distance. But even if they had, just use a shield. Or a shield wall. Have a line of stormcloack soldiers with Ulfric at the bridge and he just moves behind them in between shouts.

[@twinzzlers]

​@@Mateus_Pereira_SilvaHe's shouting so he has to move the shield, and he'll be taking over 100 arrows at any given moment

[@darthmaulergamer3462]

Of course, they always win. I always join them

[@theneocypher]

Hey, wait a minute.. I know you 😑

[@flyingspaghetti]

15 Playthroughs on Skyrim, only 1 time I joined Stormcloaks just to see their questline, and never joined them again.

[@komi-samabeliever7319]

@@flyingspaghetti Same. I did it with a mage dunmer Dragonborn for additional irony and middle finger rude gesture to Ulfric and his minions, and never again will i go to that god forsaken place. Hjerim is a good house though, I must say.

[@sparkyyy2834]

So ur telling me daggerfall is for the redguards black marsh is for the argonians high isle is for the bretons and skyrim for everyone ?

[@Treasure_hunter_21]

@@sparkyyy2834 who says that? way to pull a strawman.

[@brettperry7172]

I like that Tulius’ troops are just local levies and a handful of tenured officers and that justifies why the stormcloaks are able to fight back even tho Tulius already caught Ulfric once. I would’ve also liked if instead of local levies Tulius would’ve had 1-3 cohorts of Elite seasoned vets in heavy armor and the rest of his troops wearing guard armor from the loyal holds with the reason being the Jarls have loaned him out troops and that would also explain rampant banditry. All in all tho as soon as pale pass is cleared… Rip to the storm boys

[@theneocypher]

Precisely my point

[@teyrncousland7152]

Wrong. All the Stormcloak troops are loyal to Ulfric first and foremost no matter where they come from and many of them are Great War vets and ex legionaries. The only thing the imperial legion is going to do once Pale Pass thaws is turn around, flee and abandon Skyrim just like Hammerfell, because nobody is going to touch a dragon infested Skyrim especially after it achieved independence. So rip imperial boys.

[@TheUndyingCrystal]

​@@teyrncousland7152 I don't see how the dragons really affect anything. Even if we ignore the Dragonborn, who kicks all their shit in anytime they show up, nobody in command is shitting their pants just because flying lizards are roaming the skies. Nearly every Jarl can be questioned about their plans, and they generally have legitimately thought things through on how to repel attacks. If you seriously think the Empire is just gonna let Skyrim go because dragons are a thing, that's a joke. It isn't stopping Tullius then, and it won't stop the Legion.

[@knightingale9833]

Stormcloak armor in the game is really dumb the Nords are known for going into battle heavily armored it really of took away from the pre-established lore of how tough the Nords are in battle

[@HeldIntegral]

Nords use to run into battle wearing enchanted paint and no armour

[@DeanJMU]

"No cavalry" Me, the lone horse archer: "I am the cavalry!"

[@ToxicWhiteoutGaming]

IT’S LEGION TIME

[@theneocypher]

Ave!

[@MyDogDoingStuffIG]

Ave Amicus! So excited you're branching out to other games! Glad I was here when you were starting out and great to see the channel grow! Love the videos!

[@theneocypher]

Ave! Thanks for being with me from the beginning! Your support means everything! :D

[@Unavailable_Username.]

2:54 what? In Skyrim’s famous rocky winter terrain? It’d look more like how the Romans would get jumped in Germania towards the end of Augustus’ reign with gorilla attacks opposed to traditional ancient warfare.

[@sercravenmohead3631]

The Romans successfully pacified Germania in a revenge campaign after Teutoberg, if anything Roman legionnaire tactics are hard counters to irregular guerilla tactics as they conquered all of Gaul, Southern Briton, and crushed Germanic resistance. The only reason there wasn’t a full conquest of Germania or Briton is due to being overextended hence why they built Hadrian’s wall, Rome regularly defeated the Celtic and German confederations.

[@damcmadlad2975]

10:52 another thing to add is that the empire is even known for hiring necromancers who are given the bodies of criminals to experiment on though we don't really see any examples of this in game

[@speedytypermananswers5551]

What you see in game 5 guys on each side just hitting and blocking with no formations. Is just what you see on your game board. When in actuality it’s hundreds of soldiers in formations fighting. Just like how a city is just 8 houses a tavern and two shops with population of 12 and 5 guards. It’s what you see on your game board but it’s actually populated like half a million with tens of thousand of buildings, large chapels and many taverns and shops.

[@theneocypher]

Precisely

[@solsunman383]

Except in Solitude. The Winking Skeever's not just the best Inn in Solitude. It's also the only Inn in Solitude.

[@user-kj14pj8lv8]

"But maybe it's time for a change."

[@theneocypher]

Possibly

[@teyrncousland7152]

@@theneocypherDefinitely. Time for the provinces to be liberated.

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

@@teyrncousland7152From what? A united empire lost to the Aldmeri Dominion. Why would you think a group of disunited regions smaller than the Empire somehow have a chance?

[@qhu3878]

​@@teyrncousland7152 based dragon age pfp

[@teyrncousland7152]

⁠@@LobsterwithinternetFrom the exploitative empire that seeks to occupy them, no different than the thalmor. There’s no point in being subjected to one foreign tyrant out of fear of another. Because We are talking about a declining empire that’s dragging everyone down. Because the empire is, corrupt, rotten to the core and thus dysfunctional and has been losing territory left and right for 2 centuries, with no sign of recovery. Add the White Gold Concordat there’s no way for the empire to resist the thalmor. So yeah an independent province rejuvenated, reformed and reorganised by its new freedom has way better chances to defend themselves from whatever threat they face including the thalmor.

[@krisvires]

Something else to consider in relation to the Empire and it's Legions; the Dragonborn shares the blood of Akatosh... as did Tiber Septim. Technically that makes them blood relatives as they share a common ancestor. Which would make the Dragonborn the closest living relative to Tiber Septim... and rightful heir and Emperor of the Empire.

[@theneocypher]

Would love to become emperor in a game!

[@Puroboi8894]

There's more to that. Both Tiber Septim and TLD are incarnations of Ysmir, an aspect of Talos. Under a certain view, they're the same person.

[@QasqaZhol]

Emperor had chosen to sacrifice nords to elves in a peace treaty. So, why nords should not do the same, since their former overlords can not protect them against the elves. Stormcloack rebellion reminds me medieval uprisings against dying empires, where the latter ones became so weak they cant hold their borders nor protect their people from invaders. So the redguards breaking away and nordic independence movevements are more justified than accepting the humiliating peace treaty.

[@MindForgedManacle]

The answer to each of your questions is the same and obvious: the alternative was an immediate death. Not subjugation, not defeat and retreat. Broadscale death, with an implied attempt to literally end the world itself because they think they would live on as deities. The Redguards were likely only able to hold them off precisely because keeping the Empire in check was more valuable. It's not a matter of them being able to fend them off on their own. If that was true, the Empire would have won the war originally, so obviously that's not the issue.

[@TomAcker88]

The game steers you, the dragonborn into becoming a Stormcloak from day 1, the implied ending is a Stormcloak victory and the dragonborn is canonically a Nord in Skyrim at the time and we all know who all true sons and daughters of Skyrim fought for in the war.

[@therealplanetmars]

The Last Dragonborn is the rightful heir to the ruby throne, we need mede and ulfric dead so we can have a strong dragonborn emperor to wipe out the elves once and for all

[@theneocypher]

Todd we’re looking at you! 👀

[@dutchpatriot17]

​@ArtoriusGryphonNothing makes that "likely".

[@ajaykumarsingh702]

Incorrect. The First Dovakin is the rightful heir to the ruby throne. Don't know why Miraak didn't took it.

[@projectpems8304]

@@ajaykumarsingh702 Miraak isn't the rightful heir because the Ruby Throne didn't exist yet. Miraak never made a covenant with Akatosh in the same way Alessia did, which is the actual requirement to found a Dragonborn empire

[@Geraduss]

I think I have another question lightly tied to the civil war. Should the Dragonborn in canon, take the Ruby Throne of Cyrodiil. Since we know in lore that only a Dragonborn has the rightful claim to it. With Queen Alessia, Reman Cyrodiil and Tiber Septim were ALL Dragonborn. Then all being the respectful founders of the first, second and third Cyrodilic Empires.

[@theneocypher]

I would say yes, but I think the empire is so different now than it was in Oblivion that it could be argued that a dragonborn no longer has the rights to the throne

[@randomchannel9359]

​@@theneocypher I love the Empire, but there's a lot of flaws with it now after oblivion and it showed after the Aldmeri victory. Damn elves.

[@Geraduss]

@@randomchannel9359 Why a dragonborn emperor is now needed more than ever, to unite the empire under a single rule, no more squabbling nobles eroding the stability of the empire. Time for the fourth Empire to be borne.

[@randomchannel9359]

@@Geraduss I agree, a reborn Empire is needed and right now, the Empire is the only hope for resistance against the Aldmeri Dominion.

[@a.j.carter2294]

@@GeradussIn the 4th Era a Dragonborn only has a claim to the Ruby Throne in theory/legend, since at this point in history it’s been two hundred years since the Amulet of Kings was shattered and thus no coronation ceremony to light the Dragonfires. And since no one’s going to cede the Throne to the Dragonborn they would need to conquer the Empire to acquire it, and that would only lead to the Dominion swooping in and crushing everyone at their weakest.

[@anthemanatheme1638]

Should the Stormcloaks win, the Empire is gonna cut their losses and leave Skyrim be, because sending further Legions to the North will take away resources needed to guard the border against the Aldmeri Dominion. And good luck invading from the sea. The waters above Skyrim is known as the Sea of *Ghosts* for a reason.

[@theneocypher]

Only TES 6 will tell!

[@LibraritheWizardOfficial]

Civilian ships navigate the shoreline around the Sea of Ghosts regularly. That's a major avenue of trade for Solitude, Dawnstar, Windhelm, and Raven Rock.

[@qhu3878]

​​@@LibraritheWizardOfficial civilian trade ships are a little different to a military fleet carrying an invasion force, besides someone will spot them and the stormcloaks would send an army to greet them at the shore

[@LibraritheWizardOfficial]

@@qhu3878 Mobile ships that can attack nearly anywhere along the entire coast, armed with ballistae and catapults... vs a bunch of dudes on the shore with hastily constructed, stationary versions of the same... yeah come on we both know how that kind of battle goes... not to mention the Imperial Battlemages vs... one grumpy old Wuunferth 🧙‍♂️

[@dutchpatriot17]

It's called the Sea of Ghosts because of the Sea Ghosts that led Yngol to his death.

[@wernerolivier1134]

There is a letter that spawns in one of the forts close to the border, cannot recall the name of it now, after a Stormcloak victory I think that essentially says that: thank the gods the real Imperial army cannot make it through the border due to a massive avalanche cause our rebellion would be nothing but a minor uprising then.

[@theneocypher]

I’m going to have to look into this 🤔

[@dutchpatriot17]

​@ArtoriusGryphon The idea that Cyrodiil would only send a token force is far-fetched.

[@teyrncousland7152]

@@dutchpatriot17Not really that’s what they’ve been sending so far.

[@dutchpatriot17]

@@teyrncousland7152 They haven't been sending troops to begin with. To think they'd now only send a couple just to keep the war going, rather than a solid force to actually end the war, is far fetched.

[@elvenadohostil8607]

I always loved that the engine clips the leg of the imperial soldiers through their skirt, it's just a detail that makes me laugh.

[@theneocypher]

Same 🤣

[@remimaloney2028]

The storm cloaks are led by Imperial Legion veterans who fought at their best during the Great War. They know the importance of formation fighting.

[@LoftOfTheUniverse]

I think stormcloaks wouldn't want to do a big open field battle. They'd wanna do guerrilla tactics

[@cantmossadtheassad9952]

Pretty much, they should cut their losses and make peace with the empire, ulfric can be high king of independent east skyrim where talos can be openly worshipped(the empire never enforced the ban and funnily enough ulfric's hissy fit is what drew the dominion's attention and why there are so many justiciars crawling around skyrim) while the western pro imperial holds can remain part of the empire and keep the empire contiguous, the empire can reintegrate east skyrim when the white-gold concordat is nullified and you can openly worship talos without having to deal with justiciars

[@LoftOfTheUniverse]

@@cantmossadtheassad9952 reasonable conclusion. Would thalmor allow the west to do that with the east though?

[@cantmossadtheassad9952]

@@LoftOfTheUniverse Contrary to what the stormcloaks and many of their supporters believe the empire isn't a puppet state of the aldmeri dominion so other than write some nasty letters to the emperor and the elder council the dominion can't do much except double down on persecuting talos worshippers throughout the empire(that would require many more justiciars since the empire doesn't enforce the ban), they could try and appeal to some sort of pan mer nationalism to get morrowind to attack east skyrim but the dunmer don't like the altmer much and morrowind is hardly in a position to do anything

[@Phantom-ph6xg]

@@cantmossadtheassad9952 The agreement would be sabotaged. If we're going that route, the empire would need to nullify the concordat outright and expel all thalmor agents. I don't see that happening unless Mede II is dead and he has a more decisive successor though.

[@cantmossadtheassad9952]

@@Phantom-ph6xg Contrary to popular belief the empire isn't a puppet state of the dominion so they could let east skyrim go and all the dominion can do is send some strongly worded letters to the emperor and/or have the dominion ambassador in the imperial city go on about how it's "unprecedented" for the empire to do this(clearly ignoring what happened with hammerfell) and potentially send more justiciars into imperial territory to persecute talos worshippers, according to the wiki the terms of the white-gold concordat are the cession of a large portion of southern hammerfell to the dominion(nullified by the empire giving hammerfell independence), a large payment of gold/septims, the disbandment of the blades(I haven't heard anything about the empire doing this themselves but I'd guess they had to let dominion justiciars in to do it) and the outlawing of the worship of talos(unenforced by the empire, instead the dominion has to send justiciars to do it), nowhere does it say that the empire cannot grant territories it controls independence or anything else regarding imperial governance and foreign policy, I have no doubt the dominion would try to sabotage it but aside from CIA/KGB style black ops they can't do anything legally

[@therealplanetmars]

Imperial navy vs Call Storm Shout

[@theneocypher]

Womp womp

[@LibraritheWizardOfficial]

Barring Dovahkiin interference, that Shout isn't available. Ulfric almost certainly didn't learn it (in lore, in gameplay he definitely can't use it), and the Greybeards aren't going to Shout away any navies due to the Way of the Voice.

[@dutchpatriot17]

​@ArtoriusGryphon No they wouldn't. That College never went anywhere because it was filled with hacks and charlatans.

[@bobafett9348]

*Laughs in Imperial Battle Mage corps*

[@teyrncousland7152]

@@bobafett9348Laughs in dragons.

[@akuladoctor7355]

That is why they lost the great war. My theory for the Skyrim civil war is, that the Stromcloak will win in canon. And not by Tulius actually losing. My theory is that the dominion makes the next attack on Cyrodiil, and Tulius gets recalled with everything he got. Simply, because the Imperial capital is more important than Skyrim. When this happens Ulfric jumps on the opporunity, and wins in Skyrim, then begin preparation for the next invasion. Be from the Imperials, or the Thalmor.

[@fiendishmia506]

i feel like people constantly forget that the legion readily uses mages and even has them present in summary executions while the stormcloaks and the other icebrains hate the use of magic

[@brandonburk5762]

LEGIONS!!! WHAT IS YOUR PROFESSION?!

[@CirnoFan04]

Glory to the Cyrodilic empire

[@theneocypher]

Hail!

[@legocontinentalsoldier5527]

Hammerfell successfully threw out both the empire and dominion i think that should have been brought up

[@supermac8619]

Lmao nah homie, we're watching pure Imperial propaganda. We pretend around these parts

[@luciusdomitiusaurelianus8826]

They didn't throw out the Empire, it just left. They did leave troops there to help continue fighting the Dominion and refocus their mass on the Aldmeri army in Cyrodiil. But, it's a point that vehement Stormcloak supporters will downplay and Imperial supporters may be overstating the impact. The truth of it is not given.

[@teyrncousland7152]

@@luciusdomitiusaurelianus8826Hammerfell didn’t leave it was abandoned and I doubt Skyrim will be treated any different, so there’s no point in supporting the empire.

[@Leeloo-Foxx]

@@luciusdomitiusaurelianus8826 the empire fully withdrew after the war idk what you're smoking. they handed hammerfell to the elves on a silver platter, pulled out all of their own troops and left the redguards to die

[@theneocypher]

Hammerfell is going to be its own video :)

[@BeaterOfMeats]

Dovakin soloing everyone on the continent with a cool sword he found and 8 million cheese wheels.

[@nepnep1453]

"The Imperial Legion Always Wins" Lol the Empire has been taking massive Ls ever since the beginning of the series. The whole setting and theme of the mainline games has always been that the Septim Empire is one in decline.

[@elpsykoongro5379]

And yet it has lasted far more than 500 years

[@nepnep1453]

@@elpsykoongro5379 So that doesn't mean anything, the past 220 of those 500 years have been disaster after disaster, to the point the Empire has lost most of its former territory. If Skyrim goes don't expect High Rock to stay for very long either.

[@elpsykoongro5379]

@@nepnep1453 Reminds me of real Rome

[@Alwais_Elsweyr]

13:53 which is why the Stormcloacks make the most sense wearing an amulet of talos.

[@reffa2858]

The Imperial legion won because it had an empire. And during the events of Skyrim, there isnt much of an empire left.

[@theneocypher]

Theres still plenty of empire to go around lol

[@just.a.guy324]

@@theneocypherwhatever you say, imperial dog. Cyrodiil, high rock, and half of Skyrim isn’t enough anymore. The 4e is now, greybeard

[@CynUnion-ji9uj]

I kinda wish there was an option to show The Stormcloaks or Ulfric himself that the Dominion see him as an asset to the eventually conquering of the Empire of Cyrodil.

[@LibraritheWizardOfficial]

Don't think I missed that "total war" you threw into the script! 😮

[@theneocypher]

Glad you picked that up!

[@Calamity556]

The Dragonborn that eradicates both the Imperials AND Stormcloaks off the face of Skyrim: “Wait, there’s a winner?

[@karthikcv8104]

yeah the Elven N@tional S0cialists😂

[@king_leviathan_]

"why the imperial legion always wins" BECAUSE THEIR LOGO IS THE SKYRIM LOGO

[@stevenjames5874]

"he, his stormcloaks, and a mysterious stranger.." bruh what about the dude they shot? rip Lokir

[@wyattbleshoy3433]

Played though Skyrim like 8 times and the empire never once won the civil war

[@avvc21]

Based

[@theneocypher]

Nord pilled 💪🏻

[@Eramidas]

​@@avvc21based on what?

[@avvc21]

@@Eramidas based on not letting outsiders ruin good countries🗿

[@br2485]

​@@avvc21 Skyrim for the Falmer!

[@willemaucamp6189]

Skyrim is comparable with the Germanic tribes that Rome totally failed to invade even though they had technical superiority. Not just that but also the Empire had recently lost a major war against the aldmeri dominion and had become politically subject to them, severely injuring the empire's ability to lead. While the stormcloaks fight under clear leadership whit a clear why and vision. Political instability in the empire and unity in the stormcloaks alone is enough to make the winning difference.

[@sercravenmohead3631]

Tiberius before he became Emperor successfully invaded the lands between the Rhine and Elbe rivers which was most of Germania at the time. He was called away with 8 out of the 11 legions in the Germania campaign to stop the Illyrian revolt. The remaining 3 fell under the command of an inexperienced administrator from Syria named Varus and he was betrayed and ambushed by Arminius at Teutoberg. Few years later Germanicus takes charge and leads a successful 3 year revenge campaign on Arminius and defeated the Germans twice at the battles of Adistiviso and Angravarian Wall. Teutoberg was effectively avenged and the only reason Germania wasn’t conquered is because Briton was a much better prospect because of rich gold deposits. The Romans pacified the problematic German tribes.

[@tavernburner3066]

5:40 That's clearly a kite shield.

[@firenze6478]

I play Stormcloak but even I wish Ulfric had accepted Tullius’s surrender, though in season unending he kind of ticked me off because the Stormcloaks had every hold except morthal and solitute and Tullius acted like I backstabbed him only giving him Riften for flipping morthal. Ulfric even gives him a chance to leave peacefully and tullius is like, “you think winning a few battles means you’ve won.” Like seriously Tullius, how are you even going to hold Riften when everything in between is now Stormcloak?

[@boggiewoggie1012]

Glory to ceaser

[@theneocypher]

Ave!

[@ScolarVisar2307]

LONG LIVE CEASER!!!

[@RyoKasai25]

How dare you, it is glory to His Highness, Emperor Titus Mede II!

[@cmsx1016]

He's a little confused, but he's got the spirit.

[@hazedcosmo8522]

Ave, True to Caesar!

[@SophiesDriver]

I am Dovahkiin! My Thu'um is a form of magic which utilizes the Dragon Language to form Dragon Shouts of immense power. When I assert my Thu'um as Unrelenting Force fortified with Dragonborn Force, my Thu'um can disintegrate enemies. Dragon Blood pumps from my heart, flows through my veins. No person not Dovahkiin can realize the full power of the Thu'um. Arngeir declares as much. I am the last Dovahkiin. Your analysis neglects the fully realized Thu-um that only the last Dovahkiin possesses. You never see Ulfric utilize what would be his incomplete Thu-um. You only hear Stormcloak soldiers who were not there claim that Ulfric shouted the High King to death. I am Dovahkiin! I side with the Stormcloaks every time I join the Skyrim Civil War. By the time I've joined the Civil War, I am routinely slaughtering every Imperial Legion unit I encounter, every time I encounter one. My enemies learn that in Skyrim the Dovahkiin's Thu'um is utterly unmatched. As you know, eventually even Alduin the World Eater learns that. The Imperial Legion NEVER wins the Civil War when I, Dovahkiin, participate in the Civil War. And by the time other Legions may arrive in Skyrim from the south, I, Dovahkiin, will have persuaded Parthurnax and all dragons that ally with him to ally with me, and with the Stormcloaks. Your analysis assumes Lore that I have not seen. Your analysis assumes that I, Dovahkiin, am a mortal being. The Legion will NEVER win the Civil War when I, Dovahkiin, form alliance with the Stormcloaks. I've yet to see any Legion come north to challenge me. I've yet to see any Aldmeri Dominion force come to Skyrim to challenge me. I am Dovahkiin! Dovahkiin, Dovahkiin, by my honor am sworn, To keep evil forever at bay! And the fiercest foes rout when they hear triumph's shout, Dovahkiin, for my blessing they pray!

[@flyingspaghetti]

Strange, my Dragonborn always joins the Imperial Legion.

[@James--Parker]

The Legion is Skyrim apears to be about half imported from Cyrodill and half locally recuited going by demographics.

[@Fatalitix3]

Because the Pale Pass is blocked in the game, Imperial Fleet is busy bringing troops, mercenaries, supplies, making the long route from Cirodil. It is explained in one of NPC conversations, can't remember which tho.

[@jeroenthelord]

You are really underestimating how good mail and padded armor actually is. While proper riveted mail can be pierced its not easy and padded armor is not only especially good in the cold environment of skyrim, its also been used as basic armor for ever Talisman blessings and other in game mechanics (racial skills for instance) should be completely disregarded as there's no proof of it (consistently) working. As for the navy, there's no proof of that at all. And never ever underestimate how deadly the sea itself can be. Did you really try and compare the 2, or did you go in wanting the empire to win?

[@theneocypher]

Even the best quality chainmail armor is super easy to pierce. See all of European warfare prior to the 16th century. Padded armor, like Gambesons, are fantastic! However, neither army actually uses them. They use cloth and chainmail. Blessings and racial skills should absolutely not be disregarded since they are actively used by the soldiers not only in game for status boosts, but in lore for combat boosts. There is extensive evidence for the navy throughout the many games and support material, go find it. Of course my intention is always to unbiasedly compare the factions in this series to show viewers why I believe that one trumps the other. Don’t let my love for the Romans deceive you, I almost always side with the Stormcloaks.

[@jasonvoorhees7558]

This is a lie. Skyrim is for the Nords.

[@theneocypher]

The true sons and daughters of Skyrim!

[@just.a.guy324]

Been a while since I fought one of you stormcloaks. My sword arm is getting flabby

[@FriendlyGhost-rf7tq]

Skyrim is for Mamuts

[@zacharyhill2124]

I think a key point about the empire around the time of Skyrim is the fact that it was an army made of Nords that came down and rescued the Imperial city prior to the events of skyrim and it's nords fighting nords for the most part in skyrim. An argument could be made either side that wins could take on the dominion.

[@theneocypher]

I can’t wait to play TES 6 in my next life to find out lol

[@MeTaLISaWeSoMe95]

I'd argue the opposite. It wasn't rhe Nords alone that helped to liberate the Imperial City. But a SINGLE legion has held the Stormcloaks at bay. One. In the Great War there were dozens if not hundreds of legions engaged. The Stormcloaks can't even beat 1 without the Dragonborn. That said, whoever has the dragonborn with them will likely win a Thalmor invasion. He's the deciding factor.

[@dutchpatriot17]

I mean, you're kinda overstating the part played by the Nords during Red Ring.

[@Alduin3914]

I love the civil war quest line, in Skyrim I always side with the imperials because I love the empire. Syt Ze'o Herrnor an Goire osh ze'o Cesas'racr. High Valyrion/ elder speech translations I said for the honnor amd glory off the empire. here is the anther one for you, AVd Ceas'racr Avd Ceas'rntor. long live the empire, long live the emperor. But every time I do fort raids in the civil war quest I use my dragon allies Durnehviir and Sohrotok my serpentine dragon, a mod dragon, I uses the bend will shout on him I shout down from the sky Dracarys/ dragon fire in high Valyrion/ elder speech.

[@Ayem427]

Akaviri forces: "Am I a joke to you?"

[@theneocypher]

Would love a game set in Akavir

[@alexanderb5726]

The Akaviri did not beat the legion?

[@arcticeagle342]

@@alexanderb5726 They possibly did, but it's not confirmed. What we do know is that Akaviri & Imperial forces have fought several times & the Empire won most of them lol

[@Bluesonofman]

Meanwhile the Dragonborn is using the Stormcloak rebellion to overthrow cyradil and form a new Empire based out of Skyrim

[@theneocypher]

Would love to see this lol

[@LibraritheWizardOfficial]

Yeah Boi, Dragonsreach is getting upgraded to the new Imperial Palace 😎

[@elpsykoongro5379]

The Talos empire was founded based out of Skyrim

[@Bluesonofman]

@@elpsykoongro5379 (/But/) (/Does/) (/a/) (/dragonborn/) (/sit/) (/on/) (/it’s/) (/throne/)?

[@wastelordslegends]

20:31 Edging mentioned 🗿

[@theneocypher]

Hella based. Sigma Pilled 🗿

[@nick-314]

I think you are overestimating the Imperial military. They were pretty much decimated after the great war, barely able to retake the capitol and still pretty much surrendering under the White Gold concordant. They did have time to rebuild but they would be looking to bolster strong points and strategic locations. I dont think they would have the man power to maintain a defensive posture against the high elves and also launch a major offensive and retake every hold in skyrim. I normally side with the Stormcloaks, but I dont remember the Empire saying there was a Legion in Bruma waiting to save the day, he was just wishing he had a full legion that could smash the rebellion. I will also push back on Skyrim needing the Empire to survive a Thalmore invasion. Hammerfell was left alone to fend off the elves and were not forced to sign the WGC, I'd say the nords would at least be able to follow suit to defend their own territory, something they already are moving to prepare for following the end of the war. Thats not even touching on possible alliances with Hammerfell or even the Empire if they can see it would be beneficial to join eachother against the elves. Lastly I'd say you underestimate the Stormcloaks and their tactics. They are a light and mobile guerilla force for most of the campaign and win the war through special and small unit tactics, aside from the massing of troops to take Whiterun and Solitude. They are effective warriors against the largely conscript Imperials and are veterans of the legion like you said. They know how they operate and would know the best way to effectively counter the Legion in Skyrim. Sorry for the typos and punctuation, typed this on my phone while on the treadmill. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk and Praise Talos!

[@wolves600]

I mean there is a letter in game saying a massive imperial army is massing on the border between Skyrim and Cyrodil so the empire does seem to have the manpower to spare

[@TheUndyingCrystal]

I don't see any indication that the Stormcloaks rely on guerrilla warfare. It doesn't seem in-character for any of their command or the general propaganda they offer. By all accounts, the Stormcloaks fight up-front, very head to head battles.

[@nick-314]

@@wolves600 gotcha, that would definitely change the balance of power mid war. I would still argue it wouldn't be enough to retake the province post a Stormcloak victory, especially since there are other ways through to Skyrim, especially the coast, thats how the Emperor gets there. If they were fearful of the province being lost, I would assume they would at least explore other avenues of attack.

[@sercravenmohead3631]

Well arguably the Dominion is worse off than the Empire, Mer do not reproduce as fast as men and I’d wager their grip on Elyswer and Valenwood is slipping. Sure this is speculating but it is infact a Bosmer that helps you break into the embassy. Khajiit trade caravans also are oddly apathetic to the previous conflict as well as tensions in Skyrim, I can’t imagine them dying in droves for the Altmer for no gains as both of those races are treated like second class to the Thalmor. That being said I think the Empire could decisively win the second Great War quickly as a few battles would likely capitulate the Dominion’s hold over Elyswer and Valenwood for lack of support. The Thalmor need the Skyrim civil war to be long, that’s stated in the dossier so they essentially don’t want a winner just the Empire weakening itself so I’d say they’re buying time. I seriously doubt the Stormcloaks can win, they’re essentially forced to take Whiterun because they have virtually no farmland in rugged shit terrain. Windhelm is a dilapidated old fort city full of refugees and Riften is a crime den, neither of those will do good for the war effort. Meanwhile the western half appears to be the most prosperous and up kept cities in Skyrim with bustling trade with the Empire, something that Whiterun isn’t willing to give up. I think canonically Tulius traps Ulfric at the siege of Whiterun and defeats the Stormcloaks right then and then and there with a better provisioned army. United Empire bolstered with victory in the north will carry the momentum for a comeback victory in the next Great War.

[@wolves600]

@ I mean a Bosmer helping you I wouldn’t say is a indication as there is a altmer imperial legate and a nord thalmor spy

[@aaronsams8605]

Any true legionnaire bends the knee to the voice of the Dragonborn

[@Nova-Franconia]

Heavily disagree. You brought a lot of real world factors into the equation, which I approve of, but only the ones that’d fit the narrative of the empire winning, ignoring other factors that would have to be addressed and considered as well. First off, I highly doubt the Stormcloaks would lead open combat against a better equipped foe, mainly because Skyrims terrain doesn’t allow for large scale battles and troop movements. The only plains large enough (even lore wise) to hold large scale battles on, would be those occupied by the imperials & Whiterun, this is obviously a call back to how ineffective roman tactics were in rugged mountains and dense forests, we would never see scenes like the total war ones shown in the beginning. Unlike you pointed out, guerilla tactics (as they’re referred to nowadays, but have also been used in the past) can actually win wars as we’ve seen in the past, it’s a slow and painful process, but if you constantly target supply lines and reinforcement brigades, troop movements will altogether be put to halt. Chainmail effective against slashes, but ineffective against thrusts. Well, then the imperials sure are lucky they only have to worry about greatswords, -hammers, & -axes, which are so very obviously designed to be razor sharp cutters, and not bone smashing blunt force trauma tools. Cavalry is basically ineffective as a combat unit when it comes to extreme terrain like this, horses however are still useful for couriers, as well as troop- & supply transportation. Mages are good, but again we’re not in formation, where a mage can just blast the front lines of the opposing faction. During an ambush, it would also only (realistically) take one well placed arrow, or a swing with a greathammer, to end the mage. I personally think that, unless they only know destruction magic, they’d mostly stay as interrogators or healers. Having healers gives them an advantage over the stormcloaks, since it lessens the need of potions, as most (if not all) of those would fall into stormcloak hands through supply raids. The imperials are also not “overconfident” in the fact, they only have one general and legion assigned to stop the rebellion, they literally cannot afford to bear anything else. They’ve just had a bloody war with the dominion not too long ago, weakening the empire substantially, and now have a rebellion in Skyrim to deal with, with (as you pointed out) many nord legionaries defecting to the stormcloaks. The empire doesn’t feel safe in contributing any more, lest they leave their homelands with barely any garrison, especially when they’re more vary of the dominion than ever before, who are also most definitely always looking for a way to gain an advantage against the empire. Troop movements also don’t happen over night, the mobilization and planning to attack Skyrim would take months at least, raising an army, even a standing one, has historically been shown to be a very large endeavor, giving Ulfric time to prepare, and the empire time to contemplate, whether what’s to come is worth it. A united Skyrim is a THREAT to the empire, a danger, they don’t just barrel over the border and steamroll Skyrim, the outcome would be a devastated northern province, with no resources or manpower to be gained, and a crippled imperial army. The state of the imperial navy being fully invasion ready after 30 years is also highly questionable at the very best, we see the emperors ship, that’s it. A naval invasion is also always something not advised by any nation ever. The journey would take them from the bay of Cyrodiil, through dominion waters (if they even allow passage), restock at Hammerfell/High Rock, then up to the sea of ghosts, where losses are almost guaranteed, and then immediately thrust into the battle that would ensue trying to beach, after probably half a year at see. If the dominion also doesn’t allow passage, the empire will have a problem in the fact, it’s navy might be split between the one in Cyrodiil, and the remainder in the outlying provinces. Even if they’re not split, how would they reach Skyrim? They’d have to sail all around Morrowind, with whether or not the dark elves allow it or not also being questionable. They’d also not have any docks to resupply at. Let’s also not forget how Red Guard and Breton sentiment towards the empire might change, should Skyrim actually go free. If Skyrim does become an independent province, I think the empire would need to swallow their pride and accept it through gritted teeth, anything more drastic ends in disaster.

[@imperialtrooper927]

I wouldn't count Greatswords as a mainstay weapon for the Stormcloaks, it isn't cheap, at all.

[@Nova-Franconia]

@@imperialtrooper927 Yes, however greathammers and -axes are. Wood is literally overabundant, and those are 80% wood. The exact same reason why spears & polearms are the main armament of EVERY ancient or medieval army (from romans with their pilons, japanese with their yari‘s and naginata‘s, to english billmen armed with billhooks, or landsknechts and their pike & shot), more reach + cheap. The quality of the weapon is also secondary, if an iron hammer weighs the same as a steel one, the outcome of getting hit by one is the exact same as well. The only difference is how many hits you can give before you‘d need to “repair” it (rough it back into shape, since iron’s softer), but even a slightly deformed hammer, or blunt axe, still perform the task given to them perfectly.

[@sercravenmohead3631]

Well it’s one thing to say what they would or should do versus what actually happens, the Stormcloaks don’t use terrain advantage at all in fact both sides are content in tug of war sieges for all the holds. It was also General Tulius who practically won the war before it started when he ambushed and captured Ulfric at the border crossing so if anything home turf advantage isn’t as prevalent and the Cyrodiilic Empire isn’t 1 to 1 copy of Rome. Skyrim has been within the Empire for so long that such terrain can be avoided and the Empire has maintained loyalty in half of the holds of Skyrim so they can allocate resources and information more effective than invading completely from the outside. Tulius has one legion with local nord loyalist recruitment, where as Ulfric’s potential manpower is cut in half and his best soldiers are old veterans. While yes experience is a quality, none of them have won a war except beating the forsworn at Markarth. Tulius is a general that in his own words goes to provinces that need “fixing” and he’s got fresh younger legionaries and half the local population on his side. Plus the Stormcloaks are all alone without any outside help or supplies. The Imperial army is probably better provisioned and supplied locally and by sea via Solitude. War is usually a numbers game and Tulius has that in spades. Another point is Tulius is actually effectively winning hearts and minds in his campaign by using Legate Rikke to inform him of nord customs he’s able to convince Jarl Balgruuf to join the loyalists without bloodshed which winning the most strategically vital hold as the central trade hub. He’s already winning without bloodshed and as an outsider foreign to Skyrim he’s able to assess the value of obtaining the Jagged Crown for Jarl Elisif to boost her claim as Queen. Tulius isn’t just winning pragmatically in the field but politically in such a way that Skyrim could be reintroduced to the Empire as a fully loyal province should he win and he’s displayed how competent he really is meanwhile Ulfric shoots himself in the foot twice by dishonorably killing Torygg and burning down Karthwasten, Tulius is simply out boxing Ulfric.

[@Nova-Franconia]

@@sercravenmohead3631 Multiple things just don’t sit right with me about your comment. 1: The empire having reigned over Skyrim does NOT magically negate harsh terrain, nor can it be “avoided”, it just means they know it’s there, and that fighting in it or attempting large scale troop movements are not an option. Just because someone has a mountain range within their countries borders, doesn’t mean those mountains will just up and leave as soon as they want to move an army through there. Neither side probably likes this geographical hindrance, but the stormcloaks definitely benefit off of it, since it forces the imperials into small broken up skirmishes, where they can’t utilize sophisticated formation tactics. This would basically result in each step or offensive action being risky, leading to hesitancy, which is why I believe this war would be a very long, bloody, painfully drawn out stalemate. 2: Why are you emphasizing, that the imperials would be recruiting Nords, which you dub “loyalists”, and then state Ulfric only has half his potential manpower with his best soldiers being old veterans? Ulfric would naturally be recruiting “younger” soldiers from his “half” of the population as well. You think he just has those ex-legionaries, and once they’re all gone, welp tough luck because he won’t be recruiting for his side at all? Also “none of them have won a war, except beating the forsworn at Markath”, well then, how many wars have the imperials won since their “truce” against the Aldmeri Dominion? Hold on, none? That would mean the Nords have actually more victories in recent armed conflicts than the imperials. Congratulations, you just shot yourself in the knee with that argument. 3: I already gave my 2 cents about those “young” recruits (which are obviously only available to the imperials). Why are the stormcloaks all alone without any outside help or supplies? Where are the armies of Breton Knights or Red Guard Swordsmen aiding the imperials? It’s almost like they don’t feel like it’s their duty to assist their occupiers, since they themselves would only gain more notion of their own free Province with the Empires failure in Skyrim. Why do the imperials get supplied locally, but the stormcloaks don’t? You do realize there’s an absolute abundance of farms just outside Windhelm and Riften, the likes of which is only matched by Whiterun (the singular most arable region in all of Skyrim), and the imperials literally never even control it (Balgruuf only reluctantly allows Tullius to station imperials during the siege of Whiterun). They also don’t get supplied from the sea, that’s literally neither profitable nor useful, when you’ve got a literal land connection to the next imperial held hold. The only supplies they _could potentially_ get by sea, are those of the East Empire Company, but they’ll have to buy those. The East Empire Company is it’s own entity and not controlled, nor bound to assist the Empire. It’s a literal company, based on our real world equivalent, the “East India Trading Company”.

[@sercravenmohead3631]

@@Nova-Franconia There isn’t a distinct terrain advantage because the imperials know when and where to fight on their terms and the Stormcloaks have no choice but to fight wide open engagements because they can’t win the war without Whiterun, you would need to it to secure supply lines that aren’t stretched too thin to strike deep into western Skyrim. The Stormcloaks can’t actually hold the mountains either because if you join Stormcloaks and travel to Pale Peak pass fort after you won a dead stormcloak officer spawns with a note stating another Imperial legion is clearing the avalanche and says all the stormcloak gains would be for nothing. Clearly the Stormcloaks don’t have really good garrisons to actually hold this border and it’s like I said half of Skyrim is loyalist with the inclusion of Whiterun because if you remember correctly the Battleborns are getting the blacksmiths to forge weapons for the legion, and Jarl Balgruuf stated that the city benefits from trade with the Empire, so economically the Stormcloaks are isolated in some of their more poorer holdings like Riften which is crime infested thieves guild territory, and Windhelm has a dunmer refugee crisis and nothing there screams to me economic prosperity. It’s a dilapidated fortress city in an icy tundra with little to no trading prospects. Winterhold is literally just a pit stop village outside the college which is staunchly neutral, so I’m not sure if terrain is the deciding factor of this war my guy. I emphasized the Empire recruiting locals because Tulius states it and it doesn’t put a drain on the Imperial Legion as a whole, and when I stated Ulfric had his manpower pool halved it’s because he only controls half of Skyrim. He obviously didn’t get all the Jarls to bend the knee after killing Torygg, so Tulius gets to enjoy not only having his proper legion force but also the addition of loyalist nord conscripts in the western half of Skyrim. Ulfric has the benefit of veteran troops but not in replenishment, Ulfric never displays any tactics beyond full frontal assault so it’s not even like guerilla warfare is a factor. Tulius is still 1-0 because he ambushed and captured Ulfric and would’ve had him beheaded in Helgen if not for Alduin. If not for the dragons the war decisively ended, and the continuation of the war still leans in the Empire’s favor having Whiterun effectively buffer and isolate the rebellion in the poorer eastern half in unstable environments. Tulius has the Stormcloaks beaten in the short and long term, you’re not gonna convince me Windhelm and Riften competes economically with Solitude and Markarth. I can easily see Tulius goading Ulfric outside of Windhelm for a decisive battle and Tulius would actually be the one to use ambush tactics. Ulfric defeating half naked bandits is nothing compared to the battles of the Great War which Skyrim was utterly spared of since the Legion kept the Dominion out of there, plus you act like the Imperial legion doesn’t have an amazing track record of winning wars throughout the Empire’s history, the legion is constantly settling disputes and winning conflicts. Tulius is a general with experience “fixing provinces” and he’s demonstrated that he’s the more competent leader here. The aid I was referring to isn’t military, I’m talking about having supplies and logistics. The Empire has trade and commerce in the western half of Skyrim including independent Whiterun, they have trade and commerce with High Rock presumably and most likely House Hlaalu in Morrowind which is a pro-Empire faction. I’m saying the legion in Skyrim is better supplied with provisions and equipment than the stormcloak rebels. Which is 80% of fighting a war in my judgement. The Empire’s supply lines are much more robust not only coming in by land through mountains but by sea likely supply from High Rock into Solitude.

[@pelinalwhitestrake3367]

The Great War here is like Operation Barbarossa if the Soviets after winning the battle of Moscow and pushing the Germans back, decided to just surrender.

[@bendavid7359]

This guys the elder scrolls TK Mantis

[@theneocypher]

I hope thats a compliment lol

[@Vantud391]

Should compare him to other like Avarti, Drewmora, Dareloth, ... Mantis is a Bugthesda shill.

[@crosby817]

SKYRIM IS FOR THE NORDS

[@theneocypher]

THE TRUE SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF SKYRIM

[@FriendlyGhost-rf7tq]

Mamuts and trols

[@alukenbachauthor]

I wonder if someone could actually do a new and improved Tamriel: Total War mod now.

[@theneocypher]

I think im going to try because I also want a Fallout total war mod

[@alukenbachauthor]

@@theneocypher It'd be really fun. All of the assets are pre-made, I think you just need to essentially make the map and put it on the Steam Workshop. Then again, I'm not a mod creator and I don't know what exactly goes into modding.

[@bobafett9348]

Someone is making Skyrim total war for Total War Attila

[@RikkusNFG]

If the stormcloaks did win the war, then I doubt the empire would actually launch another invasion. The pale pass is too small for an entire invasion force, the Stormcloaks would be much better supplied after becoming a legitimate nation, and relying on your navy to transport most of your forces is foolish at best. Besides, Ulfric has no interest in further conflict, and the Empire still has the Aldmerii to deal with.

[@georgevirtus]

Ulfric is just a bitch, who broke under Thalmor interrogation.

[@Phantom-ph6xg]

Ulfric would be dead before any invasion ever happened. Assassin secretly on the Dominion payroll most likely and the empire somehow implicated to further drain resources. I feel like the victory is hollow either way.

[@UnhingedJessie]

Anser this imperials Skexit means skexit. Simple as. Turninpointstormcloak

[@theneocypher]

Whatever this means lol

[@qhu3878]

​@@theneocypher skexit, skyrim exit

[@teldryn1040]

I remember the first time I joined the stormcloaks and thought to myself more than 3 times that ive made a mistake joining them while playing through the civil war quest

[@FaolanMacDuncan]

I joined the stormcloaks, and they easily won the war. So no the imperial legion does not always win

[@theneocypher]

Based

[@arcticeagle342]

They may be radicalized bigots but DAMN do those 2H weapons crush, of which the Legion has none

[@captainfizzyofficial]

Skyrim is just one of those games man. It’s hard to describe. I remember playing it when I was younger, and it just blew me away. I was playing through the civil war, I choose Stormcloaks(yes younger me was very cringe) but I didn’t know much beyond they “live in the cool snow city.” I was devastated when Jarl Balgruuf got deposed. As I’ve grown. It makes more sense why the Empire is objectively a better option for everyone. A divided front against the dominion(a common enemy amongst the Nords of Skyrim and imperials) only makes survival harder for both factions. Really Ulfric should swallow his pride and work with them. Cause the alternative IS FAR WORSE FOR BOTH TLDR: Skyrim is so freaking awesome

[@svenrio8521]

Great video, however I think you need to replay Skyrim to truly answer the question of who would win the Civil War. Luckily for you Skyrim has been updated and re-released for new consoles including the new Direct to Brain drive, and for only the low low price of 59.99 you can have this wonderful experience once more. This ad paid for by Hodd Tower video game aficionado, who is completely 100% unrelated to any video game directors.

[@theneocypher]

🤣

[@thenovicewhispers]

"Explain this gap in your resume?" "What gap? I've been a professor of Tamrielic studies for several years now."

[@spiffygonzales5160]

Ngl i think lore wise ulfric wins. The dragonborn is literally about to be executed by the imperials. Odds are he joins the stormcloaks and takes Skyrim for the nords. Also, I think you're incorrect about Ulfrics goals. He more or less just wants an independent Skyrim. If he takes it odds are he chooses to rebuild. I don't think the empire would want an all out war with Skyrim when they have a whole future war to worry about with the dominion.

[@theneocypher]

I guess we will find out when TES 6 drops in 2050 💀

[@spiffygonzales5160]

@@theneocypher I believe 2050 is when they release elder scrolls 5, anniversary of the fifth anniversary edition. After that in 2060 is elder scrolls 5: the tod edition. Elder scrolls 6 will probably come out around 3500, assuming all goes well

[@theneocypher]

🤣

[@legocontinentalsoldier5527]

​@theneocypher that's generous thinking elder scrolls 6 will come out in this century 😭

[@tyler8253]

I think the Empire strategically is in a much stronger position in Skyrim than Ulfric, especially when considering that Whiterun is implied to eventually join the Imperial fold regardless of the Dragonborn's actions. There is also a line from Ulfric if you join the Stormcloaks but Titus Mede is in Solitude as part of the Dark Brotherhood quest line where he concedes they can't attack Solitude while the Emperor is there or they risk total war with the Empire. It's clear the Empire has the bulk of its forces focused on the eventual war with the Dominion and is hoping to not have to divert additional forces to Skyrim. However, if the situation turned against Tullius' campaign it's almost certain the Emperor would send more legions to Skyrim in order to prevent its loss. It's just too valuable a province, arguably 2nd to Cyrodil after the loss of Hammerfell. Bethesda obviously wants to preserve player agency with the Civil War which is why a Stormcloak victory is possible, but I think the real choice is how difficult the Imperial victory is. Do you stomp out Ulfric as an upstart or after he forces the Emperor's hand.

[@RelKier_is_jdude]

Big red alarm: Pedant should have effect only for player logically. This is just like with curing potion - player can cure any sickness with single potion while people by plot can't just cure themself by drunking mix of rat with crab. This is game convention, the same with pedants.

[@TheRoguePrince0]

No they don't win! The empire loses and eventually their Thalmor masters are destroyed as well! In lotr terms:empire=saruman Thalmor=sauron

[@theneocypher]

Whatever that means lol

[@finno-crisis]

Nope. The empire survives, it doesn't win. You think the empire will buddy up with Skyrim and push back the thalmor? The civil war is weakening Skyrim, making Thalmor expansion possible as the Nord forces are preoccupied with fighting the empire. "Ulfric is a puppet" the Stormcloaks aren't + it is written in Ulfrics dossier that the elves want to avoid Stormcloak victory. This obviously means Nord victory in the civil war will solidify Skyrims independence and ultimately make it impossible for the elves to succeed. Just see what happened in Hammerfell.

[@Wonderwut]

"Evil will prevail when good men do nothing" I would rather die for freedom and take as many elves as I can with me than submit to the milk drinking empire and the aldmeri

[@PeoplecallmeLucifer]

Whiterun is situated in the only big passage from east to west so Whoever takes it has superior defensive position with the added benefit of easy access to enemies strongolds

[@The-Autistic-Strategist]

And this, in long and short, is why I generally side with the imperials in the Skyrim civil war. For one. Before Ulfric started making a fuss about the ban on Talos worship, most people were able to quietly get away with private worship at personal Talos shrines in their homes. But after Ulfric’s fuss, the Aldmer insisted on sending inquisitors to crack down on this (as a direct result of Ulfric’s fuss) And two. Even if, by some miracle, the Stormcloaks win, and if the empire doesn’t steamroll through with a legion, we’d likely see a full Aldmer invasion of Skyrim. If not immediately, then after a short season, to give Skyrim a false sense of security. And the Empire would be unable to send aid for multiple reasons, top two most pressing being, (A) Skyrim just seceded (violently) and it’d be almost politically impossible to justify helping what has become a hostile state. (B) the Empire isn’t ready for open conflict with the Aldmeri Dominion, as they’re still rebuilding their forces after the last war. The white gold concordat was only agreed to as a stop gap to give breathing room to prepare for a continued war. The Empire wishes to abolish it as much as the Nords, but they see the big picture, and that it’s a temporary hardship to postpone annihilation, and give them a fighting chance. There’s a massive conflict fast approaching Tamriel, and a united Empire has a better chance in weathering it.

[@jjhh320]

Exactly. Point one especially is a case of lacking political acumen and wit. It's like sitting at a card game and playing your hand early when you think you can win small in the now, when anyone with a brain could've told you to wait and win big much later. Stormcloaks are not a contender at the high rollers table, they're just the loud person somewhere in the room who thinks they are but doesn't even know where to sit.

[@teyrncousland7152]

Just because the Talos ban wasn’t enforced it doesn’t mean that it wasn’t wrong. Ulfric had every right to defend his faith and in the end it’s the empire that signed the ban and the empire that allows the thalmor to enforce it. Skyrim is Tamriel’s greatest military power and it has proven that time and time again despite its civil wars. Neither the empire nor the thalmor will ever conquer it especially now that it’s inhabited by dragons. The empire is declining and it will never recover, especially not after the WGC. You know if you submit to one tyrant out of fear for another you will never be free. The provinces are more than capable of defending themselves against the thalmor on their own.

[@teyrncousland7152]

@@jjhh320You do realise that you are talking about an empire that has been dying for 200 years and no amount of appeasement against the thalmor is going to save it. The Stormcloaks are the real high rollers because they’re smart enough to realise where the wind is blowing and are abandoning a sinking ship.

[@RaedtZacharias]

@@teyrncousland7152 Except Ulfric is a tyrant. He just happens to believe that his nord blood means that he is the only one that should be allowed to be tyrannical. And if were going to talk about right and wrong, do we need to bring up the numerous historical atrocities that the nords have committed? Don't pretend like the civil war in Skyrim is a good guys v. bad guys situation. Neither side is particularly good and only one has any chance of standing up to the Aldmeri Dominion. It's pretty clear that you know that and are simply ignoring it to preserve the sanctity of your favorite faction.

[@chrisreed4065]

@@RaedtZacharias In Tamriel nobody's hands are clean. The Dunmer enslaved the Argonians, the Argonians tried to genocide the Dunmer after Red Mountain. The Imperials genocided the Ayleids in the same way the Nords genocided the snow elves. I could could go on. The Empire commited the gravest sin in the grand scheme of things of being not only weak but stupid. Mede lost the war at the negotiating table. The Aldmeri Dominion was just as exhausted at the end of the war. How do we know this? They didn't continue fighting after the Battle of the Red Ring, also they couldn't hold on to Hammerfell, a single province after the war. Mede could have held on for status quo ante bellum, he should have held on for that but he didn't.

[@prizrak636]

Cannon dragonborn is a Nord Male Stormcloak

[@B4L-Alt]

Exactly.

[@fzzy5739]

SIMPERIAL COPE

[@theneocypher]

Imperial pilled Sigmas

[@nandoman4769]

Ulfric Stormcuck and his army of Soycloaks

[@planetofthegames2843]

zip it stormcuck

[@georgevirtus]

L stormcucks

[@shadewolf0075]

This is the thing about the stormcloaks. The empire captured Ulfric at the beginning of the game and was about to execute him if it wasn’t for Alduin the stormcloaks would’ve started fracturing and the thalmor’s plans ruined

[@PeteyPirahna77]

"THe EmPirE aLwAys WiNs" *loses the civil war because the Dragonborn is a true nord who sided with the Stormcloaks lol

[@blakegibson9045]

This is the first time ive heard someone actually mention the tactics differences between the armies, and but i think many people forget that since the storm cloaks are veterans they understand and can replicate the legions tactics if needed, they choose not to, it would be a battle of which general can adapt faster

[@DominionSorcerer]

A lot of the Imperials are veterans as well and understand how the Stormcloaks fight, it evens itself out.

[@blakegibson9045]

@@DominionSorcerer I think that your writing off the but there the let us know this is a fresh legion, these are recruit's and only have a few vets mostly held up in solitude and the penatus occulatus

[@DominionSorcerer]

@@blakegibson9045 the vast majority of the Empire's fighting force in Skyrim is made up out of local recruits, not proper Legionnaires. Said recruits are drawn from the same source as the Stormcloaks.

[@blakegibson9045]

@@DominionSorcerer say it again slowly, fresh recruit's

[@DominionSorcerer]

@@blakegibson9045 that would make the Stormcloaks equally raw since they draw their soldiers from the exact same pool of manpower.

[@HD.Keem96]

Tamriel doesn't need an empire it just needs a Human Confederation a defensive pact between the human nations of Skyrim (High-King Ulfic), Hammerfell, High-Rock, and Cyrodiil.

[@georgevirtus]

That's kinda of a fractured chain of command, command and logistics needs to be centralised.

[@Phantom-ph6xg]

Found the Thalmor agent. Gotta divide the races of men to make them easier to conquer eh?

[@sercravenmohead3631]

Decentralized planning can lead to disaster

[@ryszakowy]

you have to try harder than that imperial legion didn't do much in morrowind in oblivion crysis they literally state that "in normal case they would request 2 legions but this isn't the normal case" so they do nothing and in skyrim civil war which nords were the right side they have sold out entire skyrim to yellow bastards for some gold and got all offended when nords didn't want to be under occupation way to go imperial legion every decision you make is wrong

[@arcticeagle342]

Stormcloak fantasy racism really does rub off on people lol Anyway, in all seriousness I just wanted to point out that Skyrim was not "sold out for gold" & it wasn't "sold out" at all. It, as a part of the Empire, surrendered when the Empire did & was subject to all the laws & treaty conditions given, same as any other Imperial province. Idek where "sold out for gold" came from, the AD didn't pay anyone, unless you mean the Empire when they gave the jarls gold to compensate for the loss of free worship & all that, which doesn't ultimately mean much as that doesn't really mean they sold out. The AD being in Skyrim is also Ulfric's fault, they weren't patrolling in Skyrim until he raised hell over the Talos ban. One thing I will blame the Empire for is signing that treaty in the first place, evidence supports that they could have won if they just kept fighting.

[@The_true_sniker]

Stormcloaks always win

[@Verathuum]

I'm curious what impact the Skyrim civil war will have over in High Rock. Would the Bretons see the Empire is just them and Cyrodiil and decide it's not worth it to hold onto anymore, or would they be inspired to help quell the rebellion and ensure the weakened Empire doesn't collapse any further?

[@teyrncousland7152]

They will mostly focus on fighting each other.

[@Imperial.Soldier]

The legion always first

[@theneocypher]

Ave!

[@johanbjorkman1914]

thanks adrian

[@warbozz1232]

MY PLEDGE IS ETERNAL SERVICE TO THE EMPEROR RAAAHHHHHHH

[@Leeloo-Foxx]

didnt the imperial legion lose to the akavir and narrowly end the war with elves in a tie? those dont seem like wins to me, imperial dog.

[@theneocypher]

Got me there 🤷🏻

[@arishok5091]

Lets be fair, the Akaviri could curbstomb all of Tamriel lol. They are ridiculously overpowered

[@theneocypher]

Oh yeah absolutely lol

[@aresatlasdurmus9656]

As a Roman fan I beg to differ. Of course all factions can win and we have no clue (after all result is just "Todd wished for this side"). But even if the legion have chance to win against stormcloaks they offer no easy victory. I know imperials have better armour and battle mages ( which I think pretty rare in lore in the end magic is not that common between common folks.). But Stormcloaks don't have to fight in field battles. And for a rebellion which grows day by day ( from the reports of rikke) its a good thing for short and the long term war. Its not a direct war its a guerilla war and like all local guerillas Nords who command troops know the ambush areas, dangerous areas and areas to hide better than any standard imperial legate. And overall stormcloaks have higher morale due to their beliefs and we can see even in the bandits of skyrim working with the empire is the being servant of another peoples rule (a.k.a. milkdrinkers). For Ulric he just needs to wait for more recruits, ambushing the imperial supplies ( in the end there is only two ways to get in skyrim by land and sea of ghosts.) and waiting for imperial overreaction or creating gossips like how a legion raided poor nord villagers etc. Creating a more powerful image of imperial invaded skyrim. But about legions in south yes its another mass. There is nords in these legions who can potentially best at fighting in skyrim and potentially can sympathise with ulfircs cause. But for now it seems like stormcloacks can resist in a war of attrition for a while. Btw for an aftermath of a stormcloak victory I don't think empire would try a campaign for retaking skyrim while there is a danger like aldmeri dominion. Even if he rebelled against empire Ulric wouldn't refuse an alliance against aldmeri dominion like hammerfell.

[@sercravenmohead3631]

Why would you beg to differ as a Roman fan when they actually had a long history of beating and conquering guerilla fighters. Caesar conquered Gaul, Germanicus pacified Germania, and Claudius invaded Briton. Even throughout the late Roman era the Diocletian reformed legions defeated the contemporary Germanic barbarians, Huns, Sarmatians, and Sassanids more often than not. West Rome fell because of the constant civil wars and just being broke and couldn’t pay soldier’s salaries which were diminishing so it really has nothing to do with military might and prowess. That being said I don’t really see the Skyrim civil war as this civilizational conflict like the fall of west Rome. The western half of Skyrim is still fervently loyal to the Empire and by extension neutral Whiterun is friendly to the Empire ultimately siding with the legion so I think it’s perfectly reasonable for the Legion under Tulius to win.

[@teyrncousland7152]

The legion didn’t seem to do much winning when me and my boy Ulfric were shouting at them at Solitude.

[@theneocypher]

🤣

[@Jarlulfric4202]

Plot armor always win them, also as you play as any main character in game you have the power of quicksave and thats what make you and imperial always win

[@theneocypher]

Why the quicksave always wins”

[@DolphinOngFr]

because they are puppets to the thalmor.

[@cantmossadtheassad9952]

If you actually payed attention in game and to the lore you'd know that isn't true, the idea that the empire is a dominion puppet state is propaganda from the stormcloaks to get new recruits

[@teyrncousland7152]

@@cantmossadtheassad9952Bruh one look at the thalmor parties and you’ll see how much of a puppet the empire is, even Tullius admits. We don’t need the Stormcloaks to tell us what we actually see with our own eyes.

[@georgevirtus]

​@@teyrncousland7152 It is only temporary, if appeasing the Thalmor is the way to upgrade and reinforce the legions so be it.