Why the Joker: Folie à Deux is a DISASTER

[@DC-gh6dy]

Conservatives liked my movie, and i hate conservatives, so i have to make a movie to destroy what they like and send a message. -A person who doesn't understand art.

[@jamesdavey9690]

They realised the wrong people enjoyed the first movie, which left them no choice but to deconstruct their own deconstruction.

[@wingsoffreedom3589]

Which is why they suck they are spiteful little rats. Like the writers who tried to ruin punisher cause rightwinger gun lovers like him.

[@RaymondSwanson-u9y]

They forgot about American's love of the underdog. Especially against anyone perceived as in power. Joker was, to most Americans, an anti-hero. Now he's a fool.

[@palladiamorsdeus]

​​@@RaymondSwanson-u9ySee that's the thing I don't get. As an American, it was very clear he was a villain. He made sure the audience knew that over and over. It's still crappy that they decided giving the middle finger to the "wrong people" took precedence over making a good movie.

[@aaronimp4966]

​@@palladiamorsdeus The Joker film 1, as I understand it, was a warning. A warning about what we have engineered our society to create. What it actively works to turn decent men into. So as far as the message, we "agree" with the message in that we see that there is a problem, and societ needs to be warned. But regarding entertainment value, we can see Arthur as the villain and still sympathize with him anyway, because as much as we see that what he's doing is wrong, we want the other villains to get their comeuppance. There's a morbid sense of justice in Joker beating up the thugs and evading the police in the Subway scene, and even in him murdering the comedian who laughed at him to make a point, even when he has no right to do most of the bad things he does.

[@SwadeMusic911]

Y'all getting too deep 😂😂. The director didn't want to make a sequel but the studio did. This is like the 4th matrix that's all. When a creator is forced to create something rather than wanting to this is what we get🎉🎉

[@AdianBlack]

The first movie was a hard movie to watch because the subject was dark and sad. A man falling to madness and losing himself to it. Some people saw in the joker a hero instead of a villian while others took the message of the movie and applied it to sociopolitical groups the creators had not intended. Thus, the sequel exists to forcibly destroy the narrative they see as "incorrect" and demean those who embraced it. Terrible all around.

[@DannyKnightblade45]

​@humminahumminabewbz Yeah, I just watched Joker again, and I ignore the sequel's existence.

[@wingsoffreedom3589]

Maybe it was self sabotage so Warner wouldn't ask for more sequels.

[@Vedues]

"Insulting the fans has always worked out great. Let's do it this time as well!" -the writers of Joker 2, probably.

[@shaider1982]

"Insulting the fans is tight"-Producer guy, probably.

[@palladiamorsdeus]

​@@shaider1982He's actually done a skit like that and IMMEDIATELY apologized, it was funny.

[@nisonatic]

"Ah, major, I've brought you here to discuss the strategy behind our new film. I think you'll agree it's brilliant: we're going to insult the fans!" "Insult the fans, sir? We've tried insulting the fans 53 times before, and we were massacred at the box office every time." "My dear major... that's precisely the genius of it! They'll never expect us to do it the 54th time, so when we do, it will subvert their expectations!"

[@Vedues]

@@nisonatic Black Adder reference. I salute you. o7

[@abcdef27669]

"I thought my life was a Tragedy, but then I thought it was a Comedy... It was a Tragedy, all that time".

[@AncestorEmpire1]

98% of Lady Gag’s films turn out to be flops. Corporate: let’s give her another movie to star in!

[@russhay422]

She’s part of the Luciferian club.

[@Neferkariusz31]

😂IKR! "Just one more chance."

[@AncestorEmpire1]

@@Neferkariusz31 800 more times

[@DC-gh6dy]

She can't act and that's why 80% of the movie is a musical because they needed to give her something to do besides acting. They worked the movie around her and it ruined it.

[@AncestorEmpire1]

@@DC-gh6dy Madonna’s acting career: First time?

[@EastyyBlogspot]

It takes a very special sequel to then put people off the previous film to

[@ViolentMessiah666]

Now I know Shad's a good boy so I'll keep my language in check but there's a line in the first film about getting what you deserve

[@alchemicalalek7535]

This was a BIG shame, I wasn't even against the idea of a musical since the Joker and Harley Quinn make an AMAZING psycho-comedic duo! The Joker even dances and sings in Batman: Arkham Asylum

[@JustTooDamnHonest]

That is the thing for it was never a Joker film to begin with for Todd Philips’s original idea for the film was about a mentally ill man who goes insane. But Todd didn’t think that people would like it and so he put the joker mask on it and just called it The Joker. Todd never had any real faith in his original idea and so he gave us a film that calls itself the Joker when in truth that was never the intention.

[@lonelystrategos]

A DC musical could be really fun if done right, like with the Batman: The Brave and the Bold episode Mayhem of The Music Meister.

[@HumanShieldrpg]

Joker 1 "Well, let me get this straight, you think that killing those guys is funny?" "I do. And I'm tired of pretending it's not." Joker 2 "Actually, I was pretending the whole time when I said I was tired of pretending."

[@VigilantErik]

So-called "toxic fans" would not exist but for the pre-existence of toxic film makers.

[@IanGerritsen]

If they had of played it straight and made a good joker and batman story out of it it could have made a number of excellent more grounded movies.

[@Draanor]

Nothing more annoying than an arteest destroying their work because the wrong people liked it. Rather than serve their audience what they want and finding the joy of doing that (which itself can be stimulating because it's a challenge to do what you want but also care about your audience), they'd rather burn it all down.

[@mar_speedman]

I've never heard of a director self sabotaging their own work. If anything it shows how little he cared about the first Joker film. Joker 2 points Joker 1 in a new light, that of a hack. In sabotaging his sequel, he sabotaged his original. Some 'artist'

[@oldsmelty6626]

Postmodern deconstructionalalism sucks.

[@plumaDshinigami]

Rian Johnson is partly to blame for the "subverting expectations" narrative. It doesn't bother learning why tropes work nor how to make the subversion work. Everything has to be about themes and each meaningful part it could have ends up losing a purpose. Not once do these people want criticism because they want to feel like they're doing something first, not doing it well.

[@mar_speedman]

Yeah, it's like I was saying. The reason people have that expectation is because it's the most fitting dramatic payoff. So when you subvert it, you lose that payoff

[@--Sama-]

It wasn't an artistic choice or a trend. I don't like that guy, but it is not 100% his fault since TFA was already about the political deconstruction to change society though destroying certain role models. The ones behind it are people with more power than a mere movie director/writer.

[@mar_speedman]

@@--Sama- You can definitely blame Rian Johnson. For starters, he's one of the punks who goes along with those who have their own personal agendas, so he's equally to blame But more importantly, his pretentiousness and desire to subvert have nothing to do with any of it. Rian Johnson is just the sort of person who'd love to watch the world burn

[@ablazedguy]

Oh of course, Rian Johnson did this movie.. Just because it's the only other piece of media with this trope you can recall doesn't mean it's how it started... Is Rian Johnson responsible for poor lightsaber choreography in Rise of "Palpatine's granddaughter" (she's not Skywalker) too?

[@mar_speedman]

@@ablazedguy No, because that's not directly Rian Johnson's fault. But this twisted way of thinking is. Now, is he to blame for every instance after? Maybe not. Did he start it? Yes. Does he deserve blame? Yes

[@Sarcastic_Sophist]

Interesting change up to your reviews shad. I like it, you were concise but still thorough. Keep up the great work.

[@genebaker511]

A path towards Madness is something. A path towards apathy is nothing.

[@aaronimp4966]

The Joker II was so bad, Knights' Watch couldn't even be bothered to give them a 30-minute discussion panel... 💀 That's bad.

[@sjent]

This movie Is Joker. Studios are so out of touch with both audiences and reality, so out of control, that they are starting trying to "fix" their audiences. How utterly absurd, delusional and outright insane this idea is.

[@johnedgar7956]

Hail Shad. Correct on every point. I'm not wasting 2+ hours of my life on this dumb movie.

[@Titusofthegiant]

Sounds to me like the person making this or people in general hate us. They want us to submit and not question. 1984 propaganda not the film in general but making this type of film in general. The narcissistic behavior from Hollywood is …hard to put words to.

[@Alfiy_Wolf]

I ate some bad clams before the movie and a craped my shorts and it was the least crap thing I experienced that day

[@davisharper6704]

More like Joker Fail-e a Deux

[@KingFrederick1st]

Great Video Shad.

[@Medievalshields]

Who thought that it was a good idea to make a film about the joker when there is hardly any joker in it

[@DraQinn]

The moment I saw the trailer and watched "Harley Quinn" simulate a man having sex I knew it was an abomination, not that I even cared for the first one to begin with.

[@brycehowell2560]

Love the drinker style humor

[@michaelavery5618]

There are two primary ways to see a film or any piece of media, as its own self contained work, and in the wider meta context. For example, Rings of Power on its own merits is kinda boring, nonsensical and badly made (with decent visuals). However as it can be compared directly to better works (Tolkien's stories and the Peter Jackson films) it becomes truly insulting and elevates it to a new level of bad. Especially since RoP keeps stealing scenes and quotes from those films, directly reminding and inviting comparisons. Sequels, prequels, and adaptations in media must deal with those connections in one way or another. It's one of the reasons why the phrase "The book is better than the film" is so common, because due to changes in format and people involved the same impact usually cannot be achieved, and the book fans are the target audience. It's one of the primary problems for media of today, the inability to write for the audience and not their own political, monetary, or other selfish purposes. A sequel or adaptation should almost always be written for those people who enjoyed the original. This is kinda like walking into an ice cream story on a hot summers day, and discovering it only serves hot coffee. Then the store complains when you ask where the ice cream is. Doesn't matter how good the coffee may be, its not what you wanted and its not what they advertised from the outside. It doesn't help that in the majority of cases the metaphorical coffee is overpriced and tastes like crap.

[@jmace2424]

This should have been an explanation of the prison industrial complex and the first one should have been an exploration of the mental health and pharmaceutical complex. Oh well

[@kagisoedward9459]

Best review so far! Kudos Knights Watch!

[@fullmoon_games]

Shad can you review the new Penquin show? Would like to hear your thoughts on it

[@curlybob17]

I love the constipation allegory but have a small issue with it (it stinks! Lol jk poop joke). While constipation is from a hard usually hardened well-rounded turd, this had all the symptoms of constipation but when it finally reveals its true intentions you are left with watery mess looking back at you in the bowl. 😂

[@reaver1414]

The first movie was almost like a blueprint for what causes mass shootings. This movie was maybe about fame? Like when a school shooter does it to try and get famous and this movie is showing the aftermath of that? Fans and media on the outside, being singled out by the guards, a crazy groupie who doesn't actually love the real you, and finally a crazy fanboy who ends up assassinating him.

[@psycomutt]

Joker was overrated either way. Never understood the hype for it.

[@dionysuschaos4867]

I would argue that toxic fans/fandoms do exist. Almost all groups out there has a worse version about. In fandom's case it is usually people who are gatekeepers and assuming only they know everything and any other fan is not a true fan. etc I do agree however that hollywood certainly tries to use the term to paint any fan who disagrees with them as toxic.

[@fusionspace175]

Anyone who doesn't mention the 1953 musical shown in the movie The Band Wagon and the legend of Faust did not get the movie. Those are the central metaphors, they are texturally supported and obvious, and anyone who doesn't see the similarities just isn't looking any deeper than the surface. It is they, the audience who only cares for spectacle and ignores nuance and true meaning in art, that the movie is made to criticize, not real fans. I should know, I am a forty year comics fan and I have even performed as the comics Joker in some very telling stories of his character, I know him well and I loved the movie on every level. This reviewer, like most others, is completely wrong. The story is one of Arthur becoming the Joker again because of Harley's love, giving her a child mirroring the Faust legend, then sacrificing his character of the Joker to cast off his demonic power and redeem himself, leading Harley to raise her baby to be the true Joker in the future, to fight the Batman we saw set up. I prove all this on my channel, but I don't do reviews and so only a hundred people have seen it. It also mirrors the plot of The Band Wagon with Fred Astaire becoming a star onstage again and redefining his stage show as Joker redefined his courtroom show, I mean these metaphors are in the movie and right there, That's Entertainment ties both shows together and the music class explains how musicals function, yet people are immune to understanding if it requires the slightest amount of work, like looking up sources and examining layers of metaphor. Todd proved that much, at least, and the truth is that most of you would not get it. This guy sure as heck didn't.

[@mayam.3240]

I'm not even against the "message", there would have been enough ways to get it across in a layered, meaningful way. The plot of the first movie was subversive, too... and we liked it, even through literally noone seeing this on paper would have considered it to be a good idea. I did give Joker 2 it the benefit of the doubt until the last moment. First I was surprised to hear the overwhelming disappointment comming from every side of the culture but after hearing the official "musical" audios I do believe the negative criticism. All that is left is apathy, I don't even feel like watching it once it becomes available for streaming.

[@JustTooDamnHonest]

In the end it was Todd Philips who screwed himself for making a sequel that is basically a big F-U for the audience who dared to like the first one. Take about taking a massive victory and just throwing it into the trash. Actors and directors of today have no passion nor love for the art of filmmaking for all it is to them is a big fat paycheck with zero F’s to give for it is all about fame and fortune with no genuine love for the art form.

[@Emppu_T.]

What a great short review. Says a lot in a short time

[@slicerneons3300]

That subtitle name is impossible to pronounce. That is but one of a large list of failures.

[@darkminstrel2041]

"This is why we can't have nice things" - A Movie.

[@Soul93Taker]

Your pronunciation of Deux is on point with how vomitive the movie turned out to be xd

[@izaakwhit9754]

With this one you can kinda tell your a writer the way you talking and I do want to read your books love that blade

[@mar_speedman]

I've been watching for two minutes and all I've heard so far is "subvert subvert subvert".... Was this movie made by Rian Johnson?

[@rainbowdarth]

I don't like musicals that's my reason. I'm there to see Joker, not random singing numbers.

[@Aethuviel]

They made a second one?

[@MatthewLoom]

The Joker is only actually on screen for the last 30 seconds.

[@pce0]

spittin' words, literally

[@MrTusk-lv2cf]

ive not watched you ina while. i do miss the other 2. youre ok. bit creepy need them to keep you inline jesters

[@basicelement]

Turned to a musical just to boost gaga's career. Disaster :/

[@DRouwnt]

What would you think of the movie, if it wasnt a sequel? A lot of times i hear about the set expectations from the first movie, but if there wasnt a first movie?

[@joeljimenez6675]

JOKER 2 FAILURE 🎭🎭🎭🎭🎭 🃏🃏🃏🃏🃏🃏🃏

[@RaymondSwanson-u9y]

It seems like the writer wanted to show that there are no true heroes. Joker was an Anti-Hero. I guess we can't have them anymore ether.

[@palladiamorsdeus]

No, he wasn't. He was a straight up villain and he says as much over the course of the movie. The subway fight was over when he pulled the gun, murdering those guys in cold blood was no longer self defense. His mother lying wasn't an excuse to kill her, and what's your excuse for him killing his coworker? Or the talk show host? Ohhh nooo, he made fun of him! The people he killed weren't good people but that was the point, the contrast. To show that Arthur was becoming something much worse as he lost control. Don't take this as me defending the second abomination, by the way, that movie just flipped everyone off.

[@JaMeshuggah]

Arthur did nothing wrong

[@stuartlonnen5355]

Who ruined Joker 2?

[@JaMeshuggah]

The Jewker

[@rosyvision]

😆

[@XFATALxERRORXPRO]

Is trash because one word.... Musical

[@funkydiscogod]

Being a musical doesn't instantly make it bad.

[@XFATALxERRORXPRO]

@@funkydiscogod Your opinion is wrong...musical means bad every time

[@jmace2424]

I never liked the first one because instead of Arthur having One Bad Day, he had all the bad days and everyone he encountered was awful. That’s not tragedy or comedy, it’s just absurdist.

[@DC-gh6dy]

Not everyone. The chick he fantasized about was nice to him.

[@DavidMosesakasha]

I really didn't like the first Joker movie anyway. I won't waste my time on Joker 2.

[@xxxburke]

A review in less than 20 minutes? Are you doing ok Shad? I'm worried. 😆