Why the New Zealand rugby system is leaking quality talent to England & Ireland |Aotearoa Rugby Pod

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[@glenndouglas.T]

Time stamp the content please.

[@elhefe808]

Yes I also want to skip through the woman's content 😅😅

[@CalTheKiwi1]

You’re right

[@user-nj8di5tj8h]

There are only about 6 or 7 New Zealanders playing in Ireland and no Kiwi head coaches. The numbers arent that high. Its just that three of them have been moulded into world class players, none of them were anywhere near good enough to play for Ireland when they first arrived.

[@prichard2151]

😂

[@timgregory82]

keep telling yourself that

[@rugsackchipendani1681]

Agreed . There are no leaks. Pound for pound JGP was nowhere near selection & Bundie would have been a squad player at best

[@dairet1945]

​@@rugsackchipendani1681JGP was in an out of Ireland squads for a few years before he nailed on a squad spot. Aki was behind Henshaw for years in the pecking order but was good enough to make the squad. He only became first choice in the last couple of years due to a Henshaw injury. Lowe was called in when he became eligable but was dropped after his first game as his defense still wasnt good enough. It took him a few years at Leinster to become the player he is now.

[@rugsackchipendani1681]

@@dairet1945 exactly my point. There is no talent drain in New Zealand. Players who have slim or no chance to make super rugby yet alone ABs cut their teeth and develop to great Players. If they stayed in Nz the probably wouldn't have improved.

[@naph67]

1:30 Blues vs. Crusaders 6:28 Crusaders fix? 10:27 Hurricanes depth 13:16 Player development vs retention 16:31 NZ getting talent ID wrong? 22:53 Anton Segner 25:51 Isaia Walker-Leawere 27:17 Sam Whitelock 33:36 ANZAC team for the Lions 38:15 Has Aupiki become a 2 horse race? 40:59 Vaha'akolo & Tui setting Aupiki alight 44:12 Aupiki picks 49:10 Tipping

[@clemfandango619]

You're doing the lord's work, Naph.

[@themanabroad7800]

Is Jip sat on the toilet during this episode? 😂

[@Sloppyjoe7390]

😂😂😂 exactly what I was going to say 😂😂😂 he is multi tasking

[@themanabroad7800]

@@Sloppyjoe7390what a guy…

[@lukejohnson3361]

Definitely a scruncher not a folder

[@razza83]

😂At least we've been spared the sight of his pins this week..

[@jameswyatt4443]

I disagree. This isn’t a concern. At the time when James Lowe, Bundee Aki and Jamison Gibson-Park were coming through, NZ had the best wingers, inside centres and scrumhalves in the word, with elite depth. So it’s only natural that these players sought out opportunities elsewhere, and now that a lot of those elite players are no longer playing for NZ or rugby in general, it looks like the ABs have a flawed system to allow them to leave, but that’s not true, it’s just bad timing. Gibson-Park is very old, it’s not like he would be the replacement for Aaron Smith. In my opinion James Lowe and Bundee Aki are overrated, they’re good in Ireland’s system, but individually are not that great. New Zealand have 5 or 6 more talented wingers. The real problem New Zealand have is how they develop their back line players from young. Anyone with quality ball skills is made a 9, 10 or 15. And anyone with athletic ability is thrown on the wing. Which means you have no specialist centres anymore. Instead of throwing a big fast player on the wing, put him at centre early. Jordie Barrett is a massive player, with elite ball skills, they should have played him at 12 from earlier.

[@kantagutagu8467]

What do you guys think about Super Rugby teams getting more Japanese players like Tanaka and Himeno have done for the Landers in the past? Naturally, Super Rugby gets way more attention in Japan when there's a Japanese player involved in a Super team, so doing that more often would enable Super Rugby to tap into the Japanese financial market. btw I watch the show every week from Japan, and I love it. Far better than the Breakdown.

[@Jafana09]

Tanaka was great to have and such a character. Imo I think NZRU wouldn't want too many outsiders in the comp. Possibly cause it may dilute the NZ style, hence why in order to qualify for the ABs you must play here the NZ way. I think if there were to be an influx of outside players, they most likely would be pushed to NPC before SR. Well that's just my opinion 😆 just an observation.

[@joseslatter9276]

Great show, as always. How about a different perspective ~ if you were Joe Schmidt, would you think you had seen enough talent in Super Rugby Pacific to think you could build a strong Australian team?

[@artetaDagoat]

Great question. Be very interesting to see how Wallabies go this year

[@dairet1945]

@@artetaDagoat Agreed, I feel like they might nick a win v the ABs or SA.

[@Jafana09]

​@@artetaDagoat Agree. Even if Joe doesn't get the results of how many wins he may want, he surely would leave Aus rugby in a much healthier state. But I guess we all have to wait and see.

[@ProTantoQuid]

With respect to current practice, there is not much leakage of talent from NZ to Ireland. After the advent of professionalism, the deficiencies in the Irish development process were addressed; and inevitably took a number of years to produce satisfactory depth (not yet comprehensive in some positions). A trickle of recruits will probably continue for many years as participation in rugy is still a niche sport.

[@Skybar23]

If it wasnt for the influx and influence of NZ coaches into the Irish provinces, IReland wouldnt be where they are. They left the blueprint for future success. It was the NZ coaches like Joe amd Lam that entice NZ players to Ireland. Before Joe Sdmidt, IReland were just poor with the odd win aginst SH teams

[@Formakiwi]

Crusaders limited gameplan - tackle all day, spoil at the breskdown, win the set-piece, go wide early and kick for touch, maul try - has served them well for many years, but looks pretty ineffective without strong lineout operators or a seasoned fly-half.

[@jmo8934]

NZ have so many players that if someone isn’t a sensation immediately they’re written off. It’s just a luxury that they can afford. When the players in question came to Ireland time and effort was put into their development. Gibson Park for example wasn’t doing that much for a while. But they all came along in setups that gave them plenty of game time in settled environments. That’s much tougher to come by in NZ due to the number of players they have to pick from constantly coming off the conveyor belt. Players like Charles Piatau roaming around Europe in his prime is not something that many other countries could afford.

[@johnbenefield922]

With due respect to Whitelock thought hed retired but hows he actually doing in France b4 thinking about bringing him back as a player for the ABs?

[@ManaBlack208]

Having whitelocks experience in the AB environment is a positive for the young locks coming up but geez he's past his use by date and will he have the impact on the field against South africa like he use to?,not sure,it could go very wrong I reckon

[@geofflecren8827]

​@@ManaBlack208 Absolutely, still has something to offer in the environment. But according to Kirwan on Sunday nights Breakdown, we should bring him back to play the next World Cup, when he will be 40!

[@ManaBlack208]

@geofflecren8827 Yeah kirwans abit off there I agree with sum stuff he says not all

[@Dinkybear622]

Quick question. Been watching the URC, English premiership and Super Rugby. South Africa and England have had good attendance eg Saracens v Harlequins 62k and Bulls v Stormers 50k. On average well above 20k per game. Super Rugby observationally looking a bit empty. Any reasons? Any impact on the business.

[@Formakiwi]

Ticket prices, squeezed incomes, low-density population centres with terrible public transport options, oversized stadiums and public apathy account for the routinely rubbish turnout. As for impact on the business model, yeah its pretty catastrophic, with most Super Rugby outfits getting by on subsidy from the national union and broadcast revenue. Generally speaking, the attendance is better when they play in their regional heartland locations, like when the 'Canes play in Palmerston North as opposed to their Wellington base, or the Chiefs play in New Plymouth rather than Hamilton, their principle home. It speaks perhaps to a diversity of entertainment options in the main cities vs the rural regions, or perhaps a greater enthusiasm for the sport outside the urban areas.

[@liamireland8915]

A question about golden point - instead of being a straight win and loss on the points table, should the losing team in a golden point situation get 2 points instead of only one - the same as a draw - and the winner gets 3 points instead of 4. This would allow the table to acknowledge a draw while also rewarding a team for winning golden point.

[@edwardbishop1176]

Bad sound quality

[@jestersage8700]

Yeah really urked me. They should get them proper mics. Good product ruined by bad audio

[@dimitardobrev3296]

Toilet cubicle reverb 💩

[@Upthecanes]

Kia Ora guys, love the show. Big fan of the Hurricanes. Just wondering if you guys think Xavier Numia could be in the run for an ABs spot?

[@liamireland8915]

I'm fairly certain there is no semi-final in Aupiki. The top two just go straight to the final.

[@Skybar23]

The probalem as always is NZ is oversaturated with talented young players. You have so many players that have to conpete for 1 position that quality players will miss out and look abroad. The problem now for NZ is other countries now have the same quality facilities and development programs which have been developed by Australia/NZ/SA coaches and directors to match NZ players. Nz need the same recruitment process the NRL uses to scout Union players which they retain in the NRL

[@michaelmoynihan9591]

Over saturated with Talentless bunch more like it.😂😂😂😂

[@kidd2hoi524]

Question: the Anzac idea is great. What's the thoughts on N Hemisphere vs S Hemisphere all stars clash?

[@Formakiwi]

Should happen. I'll go you one better: there should be a four-way series once every few years, between the home nations (Lions), Tri-Nations (NZ, SA, Aus), Asia-Pasifika (Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, Japan, USA), and Europa (France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Romania, Georgia) combined sides. There's no reason the Brits and Irish should be the only ones to have an all-star team.

[@brianharvey9765]

It’s because the surplus players in the southern hemisphere are better on average than the first choice native players in the northern hemisphere. The group of expats is small but they tend to go far in a less competitive environment.

[@dairet1945]

If SH leagues generated lots of money and big contracts they would be full of NH players. It is more to do with money than talent. I think you under estimate slightly how much talent there is coming through in places like, England, France and Ireland. Ireland and France contested the last under 20s world rugby championship dont forget. France have made the last two finals and Ireland have not lost a game in the under 20s six nations in three years. Even Italy have quite a strong under 20s side that was good enough to beat South Africa in South Africa at the last championship. Sure Ireland might be a bit less competitive environment than NZ particularly for backs but not so much for forwards but France certainly wouldnt be.

[@lovemysport7902]

It is more than likely that the ANZAC Team to play the Lions will be devoid of front line Test Players so could the ANZAC Team be more akin to an ‘Emerging/Youth’ side. Maybe the odd experienced Test Player but a much bigger reliance on Youth. Alternatively, could there be 2 ANZAC games/sides, if not this tour but in future tours, - one of experienced players & one of youth only? Given that it is a Lions Tour, could future tours include a game against a SANZAR Team, a Pasifika Team (Fiji, Samoa, Tonga etc), a Pacific ‘Ring of Fire’ Team (an ANZAC Team that would also include Japan & Argentina players)? Just grow the game & spread the wealth/experience to players, fans, sponsors around the globe etc.

[@deanhubbard2846]

Have a feeling that even with the loss of hugely experienced players,Razor still would've gotten more from them....but that's just speculation. As the guys have said, there's some very good players to come back. Wouldn't write them off just yet, early days.

[@ManaBlack208]

The writings on the wall already bud not only have they lost all their games so far its the games that are coming up aswell that matters,chiefs up next is a worry for them then they got their boogie team after that the waratahs,not looking good to make the playoffs at all

[@deanhubbard2846]

@@ManaBlack208 yeah doesn't look good, but not willing to just write them off. Any other team.. maybe.

[@ManaBlack208]

@@deanhubbard2846 U must be a fan then coz even sum saders supporters and ex players have called it already dont kid yourself aint happening this year

[@deanhubbard2846]

@@ManaBlack208 chiefs fan actually.

[@Saiyan4eva]

6 Nations sides have had quite alot of NZ & SAF born players over the past few years add a few Aussies to the mix, could literally make a SANZAR 6 Nations Exodus XV...

[@porcupineinapettingzoo]

Imagine the Pacific Islander 15 that could be made from All Black and Australia starters down the years, the all black kettle is calling which pot black?

[@Saiyan4eva]

@@porcupineinapettingzoo You do know that Aotearoa NZ is a Pacific Island nation located in the Pacific right lol...

[@porcupineinapettingzoo]

@Saiyan4eva Yes, but I wasn't including Japan, Taiwan or Hawaii either but I imagine you realized that too, great try to change the subject, so who's in your Pacific Islands SANZAR Exodus XV?

[@Saiyan4eva]

@@porcupineinapettingzoo The Japanese are not Polynesian are they nor are the Taiwanese lol... Māori are the Indigenous peoples of Aotearoa NZ & are Pacific Islanders just like our Samoan, Tongan & Hawaiian brother's & are closely related through genetics!

[@user-nj8di5tj8h]

@@Saiyan4eva Tonga is about 2000 kilometres away from NZ. Bit of a stretch to somehow rationalise NZs tradition of picking Tongans because they are genetically similar to Maoris. By that logic many New Zealanders, McCaw, Carter, Fitzpatrick are all Europeans and therefore could have played for Ireland, England and Scotland etc. You seem to be confusing race with nationality anyway.

[@daithimurray683]

Weird having Cian Healy in the thumbnail and mentioning Ireland in the title but really only commented on England players - looks a little click baity and you know what it worked you devious fiends

[@saschawickham7497]

Which integral English players are from New Zealand. I can think of a few Irish.

[@Tereyoc]

​​@@saschawickham7497if it's such a problem to why was bundee aki released and had no where to go the smallest Irish province Connacht was there only place he could go

[@washerdryer3466]

@@saschawickham7497 Mako Vunipola. 79 caps and 12 years playing for England. And Billy Vunipola is from Australia. And NZ's Nathan Roots has recently joined the England team. Do you really, really want to assume some moral authority here, Old Fruit? 😂😂

[@mauroger86]

Yeah, but those „talents“ were outplayed by NZ in the RWC QFs last time I checked.

[@MarkKerrigan-se6st]

Outplayed? Gibson Park & Aki scored crucial tries keeping Ireland in the game which they could have stole at the end.

[@charleswanderi7737]

Please deal better with the echo like sound from the zoom calls. Some rugby observations from recent events. Scott Robertson stripped the coaching talent from the crusaders when he left. He didnt do Rob Penney any favours. At the same time there are question marks over Penneys coaching ability considering the underwhelming impact he had with the waratahs.

[@derekreed6798]

With the current player eligibilty rules its hard to keep players. This will get worse when private money starts to come into the game, as in football (or soccer as some people like to call it). With money coming in the peoples sport becomes only for the rich and they will the dictate what kind of game you watch.

[@thefobbie0034]

ITs called the filter system with 1) 45-50 players at the top of the triangle with the ABs 2) then the next level of around 150-180 player at Super Rugby 3) then the next level at Provincial level around 420-480 players at that level 4) then there is grassroots with club level 5) then at the bottom is the Secondary Schools level - this is the level that we need to protect!!!!!!! We are leaking players at club, provincial, Super and AB levels to overseas even though this production line does work! BUT the key is the grassroots and we need to protect and develop that Secondary Schools level!!!! You will find that those who leave for overseas contracts are based on these reasons a) those that leave after secondary schools are those who have NOT got a academy scholarship therefore affects club level b) Those at club level leave because they are NOT going to get a NPC contract c) Those that leave at NPC are knowing that they are NOT going to get a Super Rugby contract d) Those that leave at Super Rugby know that they are NOT going to get a AB contract e) Those that leave at AB level are offered better money or time for greener pastures IF the NZR changes the policy of selecting players from overseas you will find that our secondary schools stock will get raided by wealthy overseas unions and throw big money at these young players to a offer that they cannot refuse! We are already seeing Auckland Secondary school stocks been raided by the NRL teams and with a possible 2nd NRL team out of Auckland it will only get worse!

[@Jafana09]

Agree. I also think the issue is the Academy's. Provincial rugby is somewhat being overlooked cause of these academy's. Too many people are being missed in Provincial Rugby and the other leak is, the ABs and rugby in general is not as appealing to the youngsters the same way NRL is. 1st XV is still healthy but any grades below that, it's not. If NZRU can't fix those two holes, we'll be leaking more than what we want and will eventually have to open up selection to overseas players.

[@bgreen240]

There are only so many positions for contracts, we can't possibly have enough money to keep everybody. We do pretty well. Even the so called NRL threat is exaggerated. A lot of the players that go to the NRL are ex league players playing first fifteen rugby. Don't worry there is no way they will put a 2nd NRL franchise in Auckland....South Island maybe.

[@thefobbie0034]

@@bgreen240 I am a coach at secondary school level and I can tell you now the NRL agents are waving cheque books at the top 15-16 year old pacific island rugby players and its getting worse - I have heard that they are now going after the 13-14 yr olds!!!! It should be a concern - from what I am hearing there is a massive push for the 2nd club to come out Auckland! The NRL want to turn Auckland into a another Sydney rugby league state where most of the league clubs come from! I agree with you in regards to only so many contracts but the key thing is that as long as the schools keep producing these players that is the key!

[@coreyv8150]

NZ's player development is not good enough. All this 'SR is tough, we have to be careful with the young players' talk is slowing down development. France and Ireland have a much better pathway for players than we do and that's because they have their overall setup right, from grassroots to the national team. I'm involved in rugby in the Netherlands and we get French clubs coming over all the time to look for talent (rugby is growing here), so I know a bit about how they work. It's impressive. The base is autumn to spring competitions at every level, from U8 upwards. The little ones don't play every week, but it's still an August to May comp. Kids in NZ play for 4 months or so. The best get selected by semi-pro club academies around age 12. They then play in the academy comps, which are nationwide from U16 upwards, to the U21 espoirs comp. If you are really good, you start playing a few games in the senior Top14 or ProD2 side from 18 onwards. Some get 2 or 3 games in the season and go back to the U21s later, others get more. If the U21 comp is found not to be challenging for you but if you're not good enough for the first XV yet, you get loaned out to clubs in a lower comp, where you have to play grown men, not boys. France U20 blew us away at the U20 WC. They had players in that side who had full Top14 or ProD2 seasons under their belt. It's not that they're more talented. They're way ahead in their development compared to us. France fielded 5 players who were 22 or younger against England in the 6N, without the injured Posolo Tuilagi, when it would have been six. What players who are younger than 22 do we have who are good enough for the ABs? Peter Lakai maybe. We're playing catch up. Another benefit of that system is that there are a lot of tier2 country players in the French system. Portugal becoming so much better is because their most talented players are all in France. Georgia has benefited from it for years and now countries like Spain, Belgium and the Netherlands are benefiting too.

[@jamiescott7345]

A thought, should there be an eligibility restriction free window when it comes to world cups? Players of pasifika etc decent can play for Tonga Samoa etc for a world cup but it won't hinder chances to play for the all blacks etc. I feel that would make world cups more balanced for nations like the islands

[@DarkMoonWayfarer]

Hey guys, there's no semi-final in Aupiki this year. It's going to be the Blues vs the Chiefs in a final. Matatu and Poa playing for pride and trying to avoid being wooden spooners.

[@ManaBlack208]

No matatu will get the wooden spoon without a doubt they haven't won any games the poua have

[@user-im3hr1ed2l]

Not a real comp with only 4 teams

[@DarkMoonWayfarer]

​@@user-im3hr1ed2lSure, but totally irrelevant to my comment.

[@DarkMoonWayfarer]

@@ManaBlack208 hmmm...Matatu on 7 competition points now and Poa on 4....without a doubt...

[@ManaBlack208]

@DarkMoonWayfarer Yay they finally got a win

[@julianalderson3938]

My question is did anyone really believe the crusaders cant make the 8?

[@henryhealy]

What’s the reasoning behind not combining Super Rugby Women’s and Super Rugby Aupiki?

[@Formakiwi]

Money.

[@cbarry88]

Kiwis so precious

[@branniganfarnsworth3342]

For the love of god. You’re a professional podcast. Get some proper microphones for talent when they use zoom. Until then I’m tapping out.

[@AK-wc9rl]

Cunningham South is the guy that I can't believe NZR just let go without a fight. The guy is a monster with amazing ball skills and he's only 21. You have to wonder where the Silverlake money is going to since we are losing even more players now than ever.

[@SolosoloAfaluko]

No serious NZ rugby supporter with a rugby brain has ever heard of 'Cunningham South'. Who is she?

[@AK-wc9rl]

@@SolosoloAfaluko So you haven't heard of him playing for England in the 6 Nations? Where have you been?

[@SolosoloAfaluko]

@@AK-wc9rl I'm just being sarcastic bro: although he showed glimpses of potential in the few tests he did play for the Poms; he seemed to be no different from the likes of Peter Lakai and Brad Iose (Hurricanes) - big bruising loosies full of promise. However, players of that ilk come a dime a dozen in NZ. He was a late bloomer who couldn't even nail down a permanent spot in the Crusaders system but is thriving up north. He'd be comparable to Jamison Gibson-Park.

[@filixt9]

Hurricanes Vs FijianDrua SemiFinal 2024!

[@jaapbadlands]

"Expecially" - Bryn Hall, every time. 😂

[@Frankabagnale33]

Do one about Samoan and Fijian talent in NZ mate

[@deanhubbard2846]

There's generations of pacific islanders that moved to NZ for the chance of a better life for their children. So many are now born here and call themselves kiwis but are still hugely proud of their pacific island roots. We have the largest population of pacific islanders outside of the islands themselves. We have benefitted hugely from our island brothers, but although they have a huge presence in the AB's there are far, far more who don't make it either. There's a lot invested in our players in terms of getting them to the level of being able to play representative rugby. They're not just snatched from their nations as the final product....

[@marksomerville1031]

@@deanhubbard2846 Many people are uneducated on New Zealand's geography, history and demographics yet believe their opinions are valid

[@coreyv8150]

@@deanhubbard2846 Many who represent the ABs are brought in by the schools and should not be representing us. Fakatava, Narawa, Taukei'aho and the lot should be representing their country of birth. Not us.

[@deanhubbard2846]

A lot.....how many is that?

[@at7512]

NZ will eventually have to open the policy and make foreign players eligible for the ABs.. it's a matter of time

[@howstupidcanyoube100]

You do that and you can say goodbye to super rugby. You want to see the example of that in action? Try Brazil in football.

[@at7512]

@@howstupidcanyoube100 alternative is to not do it and say goodbye to AB rugby..

[@iallso1]

Do you mean foreign players, which they already have, or overseas based NZ players? I would definitely pick Mo'Unga while he is based in Japan above the currently available 10s.

[@at7512]

@@iallso1 overseas based NZ players...

[@ManaBlack208]

​@iallso1 that's temporary tho Richie can't be relied on until the next world cup no way we need depth in that position

[@center__mass]

i dont care about the other 4 team competition at all fast forward. 10 mins of...

[@Darren_S]

This is triggering some Irish lads. Nice one. 😂

[@bgreen240]

I disagree with James on the model he proposes on focusing on the top. I think this makes us weak underneath and opens ourselves up to have alot of talent poached. I think our focus should be at Super Rugby level. We should make those "clubs" or franchises as strong as possible, encouraging private ownership to bring more money into the game. I also think that we should have another professional team in the BOP/Hawkes Bay region. People say we don't have the talent but we do. What holds us back is money, but by encouraging private ownership you bring new money into the game. If we bring this team in we have effectively covered the nation and Super Rugby becomes a glorified NPC which will be a winner for the fans. The other thing I would do is allow the 6 NZ clubs play for the Ranfurly Shield. I think it is one of the great sporting crimes how the Ranfurly Shield has been allowed to diminish. Unfortunately we can't possibly have a professional NPC as we know it so this is the only way that we can make the trophy relevant again, and it will re-ignite tribalism. When we focus on this level making it the absolute best competition it can be the All Blacks will look after itself.

[@Natedawg38]

Stop claiming ownership over those lads. Just take it that they did better elsewhere.

[@yogibear284]

We don't claim ownership, just sick of developing players for other countries to benefit from.

[@yogibear284]

A player should only represent the country that he learnt his trade in. I would have no problem with the likes of Bundee Aki playing for Ireland if it was the IRFU that had invested all the time and money in him. Why should NZ rugby pay for the development of other international players? This is not just limited to the Irish, I would hate to think what NZ players are plying their trade in the UK/France. NZ rugby has to think outside the box ie: when a super rugby franchise signs an academy player there should be stipulations to NZ rugby loyalty. All our IP with coach development could come under the same umbrella. I'm no expert but this is just an example of outside the box. We cut our own throats. World rugby is run by the NH. Can I ask, why does the 6 nations not have a relegation system? Didn't Georgia beat Wales last year - why? - to protect their own financial interests. With the exception of this year, Italy have been bottom of the barrel for the last 8 yrs or so.

[@kaeamatiaha4651]

Crusaders are having a real interesting season so far. Because it looks like a sudden full on drought. And that that's how its going to conclude for them. But I can't see that happening. Or see the Crusaders allowing for that as an eventuality. No. They're far too good for that. It'll be even more interesting though if they do conclude as well with a big 0. And no w's. But come real close to getting one or five. 🙂👍

[@ManaBlack208]

Nope they are not good at all this year I believe it will be little too late unfortunately this year to make the playoffs for them even wen their stars come back given their draw coming up not looking good at all for them

[@Connor6569]

@@ManaBlack208 If all those all blacks return they will win every single game after the chiefs

[@ManaBlack208]

@Connor6569 Nah they ain't coming back tho all downhill from here and I'm loving every bit of it yeeehaaaaa

[@ManaBlack208]

@Connor6569 Another loss coming up this week 🤣yeeeeeeehaaaaaaaa

[@Connor6569]

@@ManaBlack208 Yeah that's the last one.

[@user-jn4nf7ln4h]

Look NZ has a small population similar to Wales Welsh players are increasingly playing out of Wales mainly financial for this they are punished and barred from selection for national team unless already capped to a certain number to me in a professional era it's restraint of trade and punishes the national team as much as the player NZ have the rule if you play for super teams your eligible for the all blacks in the modern day where world champions have squad members on virtually every continent this is not sustainable going forward it's a question of when this stops for these two nations never mind others ..Players have short careers they go where their best paid the governing unions will have to pick these players or test rugby will start to wither on the vine simple as that

[@dairet1945]

Wales is a bit of an extreme example because the WRU has very badly mismanaged rugby in Wales. Ireland is also a country of similar size to NZ and all Irish players play in Ireland, there are ways of making it work. Ireland dont forget is only one hour flight from the most lucrative league in the world, the French league, even the French second division commands massve salaries. So if Ireland can hold onto all of their players anyone can with some smart policies and forward planning.

[@ManaBlack208]

Relax the rules alittle bit but don't open the floodgates fully it will be hugely detrimental for our super and provincial game

[@IoaneAle]

Isaia is a walking penalty He won’t make the ABs

[@tuttyusbuttyus]

I'm a 'Canes fan through and through, but I CAN'T STAND IWL. He just does not think and it costs his team so often. He needs to grow up.

[@georgemiller1307]

Its very hard to get into the Abz or Super rugby team. Warriors have lost players too. When people get to the next level. It's work enthic and passion💯 Whitelock is advisor in All blacks, old man🤦

[@ataimd]

Is gyp in the loo?

[@davidhewitt126]

The German is nowhere near ABs level

[@kainoizking]

He has all the attributes and tenacity of an international class player. Give him a year or 2 to put some more bulk on his frame, he’ll absolutely be AB level.

[@davidhewitt126]

@kainoizking nah mate, there's enough kiwi talent ahead of him. Don't want some import in the team who's only proud because he's reaached the pinnacle of rugby not because he's proud to represent his country. He isn't even a certain starter for the blues, nevermind taking someone else's spot for a feel good story. He's average asf at super level

[@user-nj8di5tj8h]

@@davidhewitt126The NZ team is and always has been full of imports. A bit racist to say you suddenly dont want one when they are European.

[@KekeHimona]

@@user-nj8di5tj8hFull of imports? Didn’t realise only imports played for ABs…you’re sounding tad jealous

[@dairet1945]

​@@KekeHimona Samisoni Taukei'aho, Nepo Lualua, Ethan de Groot, Tyrel Lomax, Shannon Frizzel, Leicester Fainga'anuku, Sevu Reece and Emoni Nawara to name a few from the current squad from overseas. Mostly Aussies, Tongans and Fijians.

[@101MIGHTYJOE]

Guys are heading north as Britain, Ireland and france are wealthier countries and can offer much more money. Ud love to see guys staying home but careers can be very short so i dont blame guys maximising their earnings

[@jesseferguson4269]

Exactly....the likes of lowe, jgp and aki are perfect examples of fringe players who made a choice and it just so happens that they turned out to be integral parts of one of the best international side of the past few years. The "player drain" has happened for as long as i can remember and im pretty sure will continue to happen.

[@Tereyoc]

There is no Irish player anywhere near a million, pretty stupid comment. The English are nearly bust.

[@jesseferguson4269]

Umm, how is that stupid? There is a mix of earning better money abroad especially in France and Japan and also the chance to live abroad in and do the classic Kiwi OE. What fringe player in NZ domestic or super rugby earns more than 150k NZD a year?

[@Tereyoc]

@@jesseferguson4269 there coming to Ireland for money.

[@jesseferguson4269]

Who said anything about any irish players near a million though? In super rugby the likes of lowe and aki were probably on 100 - 130k NZD a year which is what, maybe €70k a year? Out of interest what would players starting for leinster or munster be on roughly? As i mentioned its a combo of pay and the OE (overseas experience) for young blokes that choose not to persue the black jersey further and good on them for doing so.

[@designxyz5007]

your thumbnail picture show Irish born players!

[@petermichael2504]

I teach some skilled nz 17 18 yr Olds.. they want to go to Europe, nrl, or Japan. Better money, better crowds, better society

[@tdtdtd1826]

They are choking in the last 2 world cups. The best are gone unfortunately

[@miguelangel3254]

Come on guys, segner is not in the AB conversation. At least in front of him is... Flanders, Iose, Finau, Jacobson, Blackadder, Grace, Ioane... he's only "in the conversation" cause he's german

[@Marius_vanderLubbe]

If razor can't cobble together some sort of decent team for the three test series against the poms, there is going to be a lot of dejected fans floating around. Super rugby is a feeder to the All Blacks and things are looking very wobbly.

[@kojo0711]

Allblacks lost the world cup because they took too many old men. Yes I said it.

[@IzingaI]

The world doesn’t revolve around the Crusaders. The Canes are going to be feeding a whole lot of quality ABs this year don’t you worry.

[@raf4992]

​@@kojo0711 The best team lost because of World Rugby, TMOs and 2 missed kicks from players whose job it was to kick the little ball through the sticks...

[@Marius_vanderLubbe]

@@IzingaICool story, bro.

[@J0sh351]

@@raf4992we’ve had good goal kickers not great goal kickers since DC and it’s cost us so many tests

[@EdgarJnrJnr]

SANZ V BSI 😏

[@dupex2]

I still don"t think the Blues are that good. Not dominant. Crusaders could still get their mojo back.

[@julianalderson3938]

Sorry thats last weeks. Haha

[@kiritahikiwi4403]

Chokers

[@alexescanlan]

Club sides masquerading as international teams - Rugby Union

[@josephjamesrollo9826]

This is so old. Those 2 ex kiwis have played for Ireland for years. Find something else to talk about your boring

[@johncahalane7327]

Stop right now this entire story Irish vs All Blacks who's who and what's what, Lowe,Bundee and Gibson Park were all rejected by New Zealand, same as CJ Stander by the Boks and Mac Hansen by Australia..they were a perfect fit in the Irish system..Plenty All Blacks born elsewhere got in the squad, Scotland, Wales have a much bigger problem with English poaching of players than New Zealand ever had ...

[@jonahsekakoni]

Nonsense… they all didn’t leave as finished products to talk about leaking talent. There’s tonnes of talent in every position still in NZ if they polish them up. Thank me later! Don’t be short sighted.

[@hotbeefymcd8162]

The NZ players have been good for Ireland but thise days are probably over since the world rugby rule changes. Also dont forget all of the players that NZ have poached over the years.

[@user-uh2vz7yc7x]

Because Rugby is dying in NZ and the talent are playing league now NRL up the Wahs !!!!!

[@Marius_vanderLubbe]

Big Karl was never All Black standard, James. Get serious.

[@davidhewitt126]

Absolutely was in terms of scrummaging

[@Marius_vanderLubbe]

@@davidhewitt126Hahahaha.

[@kainoizking]

He was legit the best loose head scrummager for a few years. Put him in Razor and Jason Ryan’s system in his prime and he’s a better loose head than Bower and maybe even Moody. Had nice ball skills for a front row forward, great breakdown work but most importantly scrummaging. Let down by poor ABs management.

[@joshhudson7413]

@@davidhewitt126 absolutely not. fozzie specifically selected him for the irish series BECAUSE of his scrummaging and he got demolished. that and he can't catch a ball. same with nepo laulala

[@Marius_vanderLubbe]

@@kainoizkingHis ball skills invariably involved the pill bouncing off his chest and forward toward the opposing side. 'Maybe even better than Moody'' - you are havin a laugh.

[@BraziwiSteve]

Shouldn’t be able to represent a country unless you’re a citizen of that country.

[@ManaBlack208]

Nah your living in the 1930s mate it's a different world now south africa do it and it's worked for them so take examples from other nations and adapt,with the cost of living and stuff players will look at options to set themselves up and make good coin while they can that's just how it is now change with the times and evolve or be changed by the current climate and dictated too and be at the mercy of the ever changing landscape of professionalism

[@BraziwiSteve]

@@ManaBlack208representing a country and playing professionally for a club in a different country are 2 completely different things.

[@ManaBlack208]

@@BraziwiSteve Your missing the point alot of south African players don't play in their own franchises and are abroad in other countries but are still aloud to represent South Africa and its been very successful for them the ABs may have to adopt this especially with the player drain looking for better coin elsewhere otherwise the ABs will get thrashed all the time.

[@BraziwiSteve]

@@ManaBlack208That’s a different topic. The Springboks are represented by South African citizens which supports what I said. If you want my thoughts on players being picked for a country even though they don’t play for a club in that country I’m onboard with the idea, but I don’t think comparing a country like SA with NZ is fair. The idea is certainly interesting but the 2 countries are very different, the player pools and populations are on different scales. What works in SA won’t necessarily work for NZ, but it could be interesting to see for sure. One potential benefit is that while NZ would almost certainly lose a high percentage of its top line ABs etc to overseas clubs, there would be more opportunities for those other players like Roots, Iosefa-Scott and others who left at earlier stages in their development.

[@ManaBlack208]

@@BraziwiSteve Well the narrative has changed and thats why our ABs coach wants the laws in nz rugby revisited hence why he wants whitelock and others to be eligible,the tides are changing and I like it becoz the current status quo is not working for NZ rugby and changes need to be made but the NZRU are a arrogant stubborn bunch that are incompetent and don't like change well guess wat we are no longer running the show anymore we're lagging behind and everyone else has caught up

[@Sloppyjoe7390]

Big props to you guys for showing love to the womans rugby ✊

[@Hellogreenpoket]

Hang on. Ethan’s Dads English and Chandler was born in England, so what’s the issue with them playing for England?

[@Buy.YT.Views.786]

Well spoken

[@austingtir]

The reality is NZ is a backwater chithole and will never be able to compete with european and japanese clubs money wise. I think the point is already past where NZRU needs to let atleast a certain amount of foreign club players play for the AB's. They havent played the majority of AB's yet in super rugby and we are upto round 6 so what NZ rugby is claiming doesnt add up the competition is already devalued and demeaned by not having those guys playing from round 1.