Why The Nibelheim Incident Is The Most Pivotal Scene In Final Fantasy History

[@rsrocha1984]

Not kidding, the revelation that Cloud was the unnamed shinra soldier was one of the defining moments in my youth. It completely blown my mind and show me how amazings stories can be and how far games can go.

[@bjg8638]

Seeing Sephiroth turn into the fire after killing everyone and burning the town is one of those gaming moments you'll never forget. We only had the one tv and my dad hated watching us play games, I was trying to get through this section and save and even he was like "holy shit!"

[@XDenyDefendDeposeX]

Ngl my brother got a tattoo of that whole scene on his back 😂

[@johnlawful2272]

Dad: what type of kid game is this he killed all those chibis towns people

[@lemoncurry2926]

Lol, the only time someone in my familly saw me playing FF7 I was just answering "Yark!" to the Chocobo at the Chocobo's Farm.

[@Caleb-hw8gm]

It's especially special since back then we had CRTs and that was a fully rendered CG cutscene of higher quality than most games up until then. I remember my dad talking about how games looked so good around that time. I miss it

[@TheShockVox]

That’s rad

[@disturbedrebirth]

The nibelheim incident in the original game is the perfect example of an unreliable narrator done right.

[@LeeorVardi]

I wonder how well if at all Rebirth will succeed in replicating it

[@veilmontTV]

I'm so glad ff7 was one of the first games I ever got into. It is a masterpiece

[@vincentgraymore]

@@LeeorVardiWell Hojo already said cloud was not in soldier and Cloud also says that he killed Sephiroth with his own arms. FF VII rebirth has to change in accordance with this.

[@LeeorVardi]

@@vincentgraymore both of these are consistent with FFVII and Crisis core. Cloud never made it into SOLDIER. And and he did kill sephiroth with his own two hands, by tossing him into the Mako using the masamune he was impaled on.

[@ZxChrono]

@@vincentgraymoreexcept Sephiroth didn’t “die”. As he is still alive in the Northern Crater, in a coma like state while conscious in the lifestream.

[@djthelazygamer9300]

All of Final Fantasy 7 can be summed up in one sentence. Hojo is an asshole

[@grandmasterfarmer4792]

" Sephiroth didn't come out of the Shinra mansion. He continued to read as if he were possessed by something. And not once, did the light in the basement go out... "

[@FlareBattle]

The irony of KH Birth by Sleep instantly making me realize Cloud was Zach in the demo. Those squats are just memorable 😂

[@leviathanlives4847]

Sephiroth: I've mastered every spell, you don't stand a chance. Cloud: I've got Pre-emptive materia. /stab

[@flyaroundyourfire]

A 27 minute long video about the Nibelheim incident??? Yes please! 🤩

[@GL-tx9dv]

Pretty bold.to.releade this two months before it's retold once again.

[@BoBurnham69]

Here's to being bold, ma friends 🍻❤️‍🔥

[@hadeness789]

It is in the Nibelheim incident where: Sephiroth discards his humanity Tifa doesn't lose her humanity Cloud's feelings of inadequacy rise to the top Zack's dreams are crushed

[@MasterAngelification]

Even more so. Sephiroth discards, Tifa doesn't, Cloud hides, And Zach loses ... Humanity

[@voborny]

Such genius storywriting tbh. Multi-climactic even. So many peaks and lows all in one emotional cocktail that changes everyone's lives significantly. If this was a netflix show, it would be the end of a season.

[@fendelphi]

If there ever was an event that made a plot "click" into place, it is the Nibelheim incident of FFVII. From an introduction to the motive and plot at the start of the game, to existential crisis and despair, and finally acceptance and katharsis. And the way it is done, by playing through the flashback initially, then using that as a reference for "what actually happened", was brilliant. It can be quite complicated to explain the various "strings" of this event to others, but when you play the game, it makes perfect sense and is easy to keep track of. It both feels multi-layered and very simple.

[@delikatessbruhe9843]

11:32 You say Sephroth might have been ignorant to the fact that Cloud was present for this scene in Nibelheim but this can't be true. He litrally asks Cloud what it feels like to be home. The question doesn't apply to anyone but Cloud, so he must have known. Still, great compilation of this event, very cool video!

[@liquidsnake23]

during the first encounter on the boat (could had been jenova) Cloud calls him out in which Sephiroth responds with "Who are you?".

[@ztdk]

He must have known that grunt #2 mentioned being from here a few hours ago. Not necessarily anything else about said grunt.

[@delikatessbruhe9843]

@@ztdk Well grunt #2 later walks up to him and throws him into nowhere below the reactor after being pierced by his sword. I think he remembered him.

[@neku2741]

Correct, Sephiroth was a relatively nice dude who see Shinra as his home before he lost his mind

[@TsuikeNovaus]

@@liquidsnake23 I do believe that is the case, it was another member of the Jenova project, and if Cloud's memories were fragmented, so would the other members. The reason why the Sephiroth clone at the northern Cave knew who Cloud was and everything about the incident was because Sephiroth either wanted him to know, or Sephiroth was manipulating the crap out of Cloud the entire time, potentially angry at Cloud interfering with his plans back at the reactor.

[@grawlix311]

Man the nostalgia… the flames…. Sephiroth turning… and that MUSIC!!

[@bigguy952]

Love how you even used Ever Crisis to explain the incident, but just in case you didn’t know, the side stories in the app game also had scenes of Tifa and Cloud post-Nibelheim and their first day in Midgar

[@RaymondKarlVeasey75]

Sephiroth With The Flames Behind Him, Totally Iconic! I Remember The First Time I Played Through Cloud's Coma In OG FFVII & Getting To The Part Where Cloud Removed His Helmet Showing He Was There The Whole Time. Wow, That Blew Me Away! Just Like That Mind Blown Meme. That To Me, Is One Of The Most Iconic Moments In All Of Video Gaming, IMO. Great Video!

[@zakirstocks9514]

Sephiroth finding out about what he truly is, and causing the Horrendous *Nibelheim Incident* from the *Final Fantasy 7/VII* franchise is just so Super Iconic and Epic.

[@abanereizei204]

I just realized that what we see during the Nibelheim Incident could possibly be an early form of reunion. The events of Crisis Core and those in Nibelheim take a toll on Sephiroth's mind, but the greatest part of it comes during his time in the Shinra manor basement, where he discovers the research materials. Jenova's cells instinct capitalizes on this, using the cells ability to subtly affect minds. The cells use the information that Sephiroth is processing and influence his mind in the direction the instinct of cells requires for the reunion to happen. This aligns with Jenova's ability to influence minds and show illusions to people that is described in lore (specifically by Ifalna) and shown in the games. The cells probably have no mind or consciousnesses(before Sephiroth assumes control), but they posses certain mechanisms and behavior patters. So, Sephiroth gets all these delusions of grandeur, forms a mission in his head, certain ideas, etc. goes on a rampage and then leaves for the mt. Nibel to find his "mother" (to reunite the cells within him with the batch of cells inside the reactor, as per instinct of the cells inside his body; all of this happens as the instinct present in cells subtly influences his mind in a necessary direction, by filling his head with necessary thoughts that shall ultimately bring upon the reunion). And the reunion is successful. Sephiroth cuts off the Jenova's head, jumps into the lifestream and the cells of flesh merge with the cells of the head. In Rebirth the basement scene(of course, it could be said that it's a part of Cloud's delusions, but I remember reading that he devs have stated that they are going to make a bunch of things very obvious in the Remake, so people get clear ideas, with little to no doubt) Sephiroth basically behaves the same way Cloud does when he's controlled by Sephiroth. The only difference is that Sephiroth has his mind influenced by the cells instinct, while Cloud is influenced by the will of a conscious being - Sephiroth.

[@Beryllahawk]

I still remember being horrified by almost everything in the Nibelheim section of FF7 and then, when revisiting the memories down in the Lifestream...man. That hit like a truck. In some ways worse than the very first time of seeing Aerith die, because Sephiroth's madness seemed so damn unnecessary. It makes sense NOW, of course - as much because of the experiences I've had in real life since then as the elaborations in the compilation. But it still hits pretty hard. The anticipation for this next and potentially new version of the incident is strong! Especially with so much mystery about just what is really going on as it were.

[@vbarreiro]

I like the realism of Cloud’s embarrassment at returning home without making SOLDIER. It makes much more relatable because, who among us hasn’t, at one point or another in our lives, not failed to make it to where we thought we’d be at that point? Maybe we thought we’d have that promotion by now, maybe we thought we’d be married, or something we failed to attain… and it’s hard facing those you entrusted with your dream, and tell them you’ve so far failed to attain it.

[@sleepyprinny]

Personally, I'm a big fan of events like this being expanded since, as often is the case, the truth often has way more perspectives to it than just what you hear/see. So yeah, adding in the Turks' Zack's, and even Genesis' POV makes sense the rrasons they'd all end up there make way more sense than them convwniently being absent.

[@cjwatso]

This was awesome! I’m a huge final fantasy fan, but I’ve never had time to play the extra FF7 games. Thank you for showing me how they all tie together so succinctly.

[@ajflink]

Hojo is literally the Final Fantasy equivalent of Joker from Batman if he was a research-obsessed scientist. He knew it would potentially be a bad idea to have Sephiroth go there, yet his scientific curiosity made him never second guess that train of thought.

[@TheEpitomeofSass]

Really appreciated the analysis between the different medias depicting the incident! I haven't played Crisis Core fully, so knowing that Genesis was there to push Sephiroth into madness was eye-opening. Definitely gets me more excited to play Rebirth when it comes out

[@Chum2293]

The first time in the series that the main antagonist became evil while previously being the hero. Definitely a change in the series story writing imo

[@MortonGoldthwait]

One thing I love about Final Fantasy VII is that in addition to themes of identity, environmentalism, and corporate greed, it is also a story about body horror. The scientific mysteries of Jenova and Sephiroth are equally as fascinating as William Birkin and The Thing.

[@Vereid]

Agreed. Wish we got to see how Jenova originally attacked the ancients when she first landed since there is some obvious inspiration from The Thing. Even if it’s viewing through the memory of the planet or something, just showing how Jenova originally tricked the ancients by posing as their loved ones and how it infected them with what Ifalna calls a “virus”. As a kid, there were 2 parts of FF7 that scared me a bit when playing alone, late at night. 1 was the Nibelheim Incident flashback with the Makonoid, along with Sephiroth’s genocidal meltdown and his creepy theme. The other was just hearing “Trail of Blood”; theme legitimately creeped me out (along with that demonic looking face that attacks you below Cosmo Canyon). Nowadays I love how creepy that song is but as a kid I always rushed those parts lol.

[@klassik059]

⁠@@VereidI’m right there with you about the Gi Nattak boss doing that face twitch shit, I was 11 when I first played the game, but goddam that face freaked me out.

[@Vaquix000]

@@Vereid Jenova tricked the ancients by posing as their loved ones? I can't even remember hearing about that, but I always thought Jenova seemed like a creepier villain than Sephiroth. They just wanted a badass anime swordsmen in there I guess, but jenova was a lot more unique. A creepy alien woman destroying a civilization with tricks rather than just slashing and burning everything like sephiroth would is interesting to me, honestly I kinda wish sephiroth was just another pawn in her plan.

[@awsomeboy360]

@@Vereid That is something I hope for Part 3 we actually see via flashback. The Jenova vs Ancient stuff. In the original it's talked about. And it even has some missable recordings. However I'd like for us to see a somewhat small flashback of what happened.

[@SableWind]

​@@Vaquix000that's one of the old arguments among original FF7 fans - was Sephiroth the one who decided to turn against humanity based on what he found in the reactor and the Shinra basement - or did Jenova intentionally trigger him, driving him into those delusions of grandeur? Is Sephiroth pulling Jenova's strings by manipulating her abilities, or are Jenova's abilities manipulating Sephiroth into thinking he's the one in control? With this in mind, I'm extremely interested in the theory of the two separate Sephiroths we encounter in FF7 Remake. Perhaps one that is truly Sephiroth, and another that is Jenova's thrall? I'm hype AF for Rebirth.

[@meteor22]

There's another thing that Last Order does to undermine the story events and intent during the Cloud vs Sephiroth struggle in the Mako Reactor. In Last Order when Cloud is impaled and overpowers Sephiroth it does something pretty cliche and very anime. Sephiroth comments on Clouds newfound strength and asks "What are you?" and Clouds eyes are glowing, implying that Cloud is something greater than what he appears to be. This completely flies in the face of why this scene was so impactful in the 1st place. Cloud was nothing special. He was just a regular guy. But through sheer force of will was able to overcome, albeit a weakened, living legend that was for what the audience as far knows was undefeatable.

[@Vaquix000]

Yeah, the glowing eyes imply "chosen one" nonsense which is not what the original was trying to do at all. Badly handled in Last Order.

[@robertbouley7697]

Heartily agree. As another commenter wrote: because ‘Last Order’ comes from Tseng, we can read that divergence (and the ‘jump’) as a Shinra coverup, since they would never acknowledge that Sephiroth could lose to a regular human.

[@JoshWiniberg]

​@@robertbouley7697that's a good way of thinking about it.

[@SwiftlyTony360]

Being aware of Genesis's degradation and its effects, it also made me think about Sephiroth state of health as well. Shinra, Hojo, etc. kept saying he was “perfect”, but What IF he wasn't as they all believed he was? What IF he was also suffering from degradation like Genesis but instead of affecting his body it was only slowly affecting his mind? During all that time, reading every book in Shinra Manor caused him a significant amount of stress. Prolong exposure to stress can potentially impact cognitive function and degrade overall mental well-being. Lack of sleep compounded with prolong stress had caused this to accelerate his mind to degrade even further both mentally and at a cellular level, hence his Jenova cells and the arise incident of Nibelheim.

[@Thoralmir]

This incident also demonstrates the importance of a good night's sleep: Sephiroth was up for several days straight when he was doing that research. That'll make anyone unhinged, let alone one going through an existential crisis.

[@ChefAndyLunique]

Watching this after the demo and holy cow is it well done. Great work here

[@neku2741]

Not just the incident but the way they told the story is also amazing, you didn't about any of the backstory until you got out of midgard which is like 10-20 hours into the game. The mystery is what hook me throughout the game.

[@TheKyfe]

It is believed by some fan theories that Cloud is actually naturally as strong as a Soldier 1st Class, which would make him the strongest natural human alive (Sephiroth being a notable exception, considering he had Jenova Cells since birth). The problem came from his mentality, and he wasn't able to use his strength until met with the crises of a homicidal Sephiroth. Getting bathed in Mako and Jenova Cells later further increased his abilities, which is why he was able to be the hero of the story. Another fan theory was that he didn't suffer a second bout of Mako poisoning after falling into the Lifestream, but that he was suffering a backlash from his Jenova Cells being purged. If you'll notice, he is no longer under the control or influence of Sephiroth/Jenova after that incident, which strongly points to a lack of Jenova Cells being present in his body.

[@menghao737]

He definitely broke through some kind of human limit when he singlehandedly killed Sephiroth. That should have been impossible, even with Sephiroth wounded from a surprise attack. Cloud overpowered him after being skewered by his Masamune, picking Sephiroth up as he refused to let go of his sword, tossing an utterly shocked Sephiroth to his semi-death.

[@jaehaalexander1172]

​@menghao737 I am just gonna point out that Cloud has pre-emptive materia equipped during that scene which is likely why he was able to take him down. He was able to get the first strike. Not that Cloud isn't strong naturally anyway.

[@simongratson]

There are still Jenova cells in Cloud’s body after taking a dip in the Life stream. Advent Children addresses this exact topic, you can see Cloud's eyes change to be Sephiroth eyes. The geostigma is a separate but related effect caused by being exposed to the corruption in the Lifestream. "Mother's memetic legacy."

[@illwill6080]

​@@jaehaalexander1172 that fight is technically supposed to be Zack that's helping sepheroth fight the dragon outside of nibelhim so there is a chance it's Zack and not Cloud that has the preemptive materia

[@jaehaalexander1172]

@illwill6080 we're talking about when Cloud stabs Sephiroth in the back though. Zack didn't do that. Cloud did.

[@Anywaays]

4:27 interesting how Sephiroths reaction differs in Rebirth where he spends 2 hours searching for the soldier

[@4Shaman]

Oh, I didn’t catch that. I kinda read the scene as Sephiroth half-assedly trying to save the guy. It’s not like he scrambled to command Tifa, Zack & Cloud sp they would land safe, he simply jumped down knowing he’d survive, no prob.

[@SlamBolts]

Although I know how it all goes front to back, the reveal that Cloud was just a masked grunt still amazes me. It's so good.

[@Toucan_222]

This is Final Fantasy's version of Order 66. A single moment revisited from multiple perspectives that gets better the more we see.

[@akyruz8345]

The Nibelheim incident is like the Roswell of videogames... will we ever know what exactly happened there? They keep adding and changing details... and im genually excited to know what will change with Rebirth. On another note, even if it is just a small detail, i was sad how they censured Jenova's head in Crisis Core Remaster.

[@SamJulesGillians]

I love that part about it, we will never know the truth. I always think of the inconsistency in it as different people telling the same story, makes it seem like real life where even if we experience the same event we’ll definitely tell it differently.

[@ThwipThwipBoom]

@@SamJulesGillians Real life sucks, that's why we play video games. Just tell us exactly what happened I say.

[@luisgustavopecanha5507]

@@ThwipThwipBoom Speak for yourself. If your life is miserable, your problem

[@ThwipThwipBoom]

@@luisgustavopecanha5507 Nah, life sucks, it's why people escape into video games and movies rather than going out more into the real world.

[@luisgustavopecanha5507]

@@ThwipThwipBoom well sucks to be you it seems 🤷‍♂️

[@smtsmt1223]

This scene is going to be amazing in rebirth!!!! 29 February can’t come soon enough

[@GlacierRain]

another quality video 10/10 thanks guys and much love to your works

[@FinalFantasyUnion]

Thank you so much, glad you enjoyed it!

[@DutchDread]

Honestly, while I enjoyed this video it really only just explained what happened, not why it's so important. I consider the mystery of nibelheim to be one of the best story devices in fiction so I hoped for a more detailed video about all the symbolic and narrative aspects on nibelheim and why it works so well.

[@donavancampbell6658]

Having Sephiroth willingly jump in the life stream was a weird choice and really diminished what cloud did im glad that is non canon what a weird thing to change

[@WaywardBrigand]

I just wanted to say that Selphiroth saying his mom's name being Jenova isn't a matter "will be important soon." It should immediately be important because at that point in the game the player has already encountered part of Jenova.

[@ashleysmith38]

Sethiroths identity crisis was relatable for me as a child growing up with autism. Then clouds identity crisis was like a slightly more healthy version of the same feelings

[@simongratson]

Same; being autistic really made me empathize with both Cloud and Squall, with their struggles of how to relate with people and other mental/emotional difficulties they suffer from.

[@ashleysmith38]

@simongratson squall was so badly translated tho he just comes off as an asshole for the first half of the game i recomend the echos mod for all ps1 final fantasys due to the translstion they use

[@AAAJ93]

Nibelheim Incident is truly one of my favorite events in all of gaming. It’s just so iconic.

[@clearspira]

Maybe. But I will always argue that the laughing scene from FFX is up there. So many people, even today, still misunderstand the significance of that scene.

[@Force-Multiplier]

X has much better scenes tho when Tidus realizes what he had been helping pushing and cheering Yuna to do all along the lake Macalania scene or the ending ...

[@pauldehayes1898]

@@Force-Multiplier that fight with Jecht though.........

[@kieragard]

😂😂😂😅😅😅

[@SableWind]

I think people understand the scene, it's not that deep, it just doesn't make the whole thing any less embarrassing to witness lol

[@gaiustheant1618]

"Unnamed shinra soldier"? That's Ramirez

[@Athlynne]

Continued and eternal thanks to Nojima-san for setting the most heartbreaking incident ever on my birthday. :(

[@TomMSTie1138]

I can't wait to see how this plays out in Remake. Imagine seeing Sephiroth casting Fire 3 on Nibelheim.

[@robertlisk1135]

I love the original concept of the incident, and utterly despise the extended retellings. The way the scene plays out in the original game is complete, no necessary changes required. The epic fight between Zack and Sephiroth was inconsequential, because he was there to show us just how monstrously powerful Sephiroth was. He wasn't outmatched or outwitted, he was caught off guard because he had no reason to check his blind spots. Also the extended stuff IGNORES everything the original established as true: Sephiroth and Shinra (at the time) incorrectly classified Jenova as an Ancient. Sephiroth did everything he did believing he was exacting revenge on a race that showed his no mercy. He went to his grave misunderstanding what he truly was, and died for his hubris and arrogance. But then Genesis comes into the mix? And suddenly its not just a routine mission to the Reactor for Shinra; its a fated manhunt with a poorly conceived character being the one to set Sephiroth down the path to madness. Suddenly it can't be Sephiroth who comes to this conclusion and builds on the tragedy of his own life; nooooo, now its an inconsequential character who puts the seed of doubt in his mind. What utter, utter nonsense

[@Vaquix000]

Yep, the extended stuff is just milking the franchise. The remake and the upcoming sequels of it are part of that. FF7 OG is all there is as far as I'm concerned.

[@The_Crooked_Step]

Could not agree more! I'm extremely nervous how they will portray this scene in Rebirth and the third game because of this.

[@stanm4410]

​@@The_Crooked_StepThey already alluded to Genesis (and Crisis Core in general) in FF7 Remake, so it's almost certainly going to be the Compilation version of the Nibelheim sequence 😩

[@SableWind]

YES, dude. I swear I don't see this opinion online enough, CC is so, SO poorly written. Genesis and Angeal are so catastrophically designed that their personalities, motivations, and behaviors are straight up schizophrenic. Something awful must have happened during development, because they are both genuinely embarrassing to watch in every cutscene. Genesis completely cheapens Sephiroth's downfall, and I'm thinking/hoping that the Remake trilogy will leave Genesis and Angeal out of it completely, outside of minor references/events at most (the Dirge of Cerberus inclusions in the Remake DLC, for example).

[@robertlisk1135]

@@SableWind I believe they're trying to do this extended universe stuff right with this remake, and if they want that scene to play out the way it needs to, they will absolutely remove the entire Genesis plot from everything, and either rewrite him, or leave him as a secret boss like that turdcomb Weiss

[@tacobellcall911]

Seeing that picture of Zack... I was 12 years old, and my mind was fucking blown...

[@ajflink]

I always see it as the Fall of Sephiroth the hero into the murderer. It is kinda a parallel to Lucifier being the best of angels to the worst of angels.

[@michaelscott5861]

Kefka turning the world to ruin in FF6 has my vote for post pivotal, but I do like the layers this event had to it from a story standpoint

[@JoshWiniberg]

It's certainly a more dramatic event but it doesn't really change your understanding of the story. Personally, would say WoR is more a shift in dynamic than a pivot.

[@michaelscott5861]

@@JoshWiniberg I mean, it showed the extreme that kefka was looking to go for power. To me, the Nibelheim event is fascinating with it's layers, I just can't give it the full credit because of it's rug pulls with the memories being being mixed between characters. I'm not a huge fan of that story telling mechanic is all. A bit of "it's a mystery because we lied to you at first". I'm in no way saying that's bad, just not my favorite.

[@JimmyScribbles]

Opening Jenova reminds me of final fantasy 3/6 when Kefka and Ghestal opened the doors to the esper world. Imagine being in a world with like what 10 cities and one of them is gone now lol

[@deatho0ne587]

I will always find FFVI mid point more pivotal, since it changes the ways of the world way more than the FFVII's Nibelheim event. I mean land is still basically dead at the end of the game, unlike FFVII. 2:50 Who is the driver, seems like another soldier. Even in newer takes there is a driver, 2 soliders (one being Cloud), Zack and Seph.

[@seven2653]

I remember the first time I played it, I was a worried how Cloud was actually a Sephiroth Clone, when later it showed the revelation that Cloud actually DID manage to defeat Sephiroth and keep his promise to Tifa. It was amazing... I played this game for years... Now we gwt to see the remake... I wonder how it will unfold

[@Angelo_X_2045]

That slowed down "Waltz de chocobo" theme is such a Beautiful Masterpiece 😍.

[@jaykknight2248]

Yeah screw the Baron package delivery to Mist village, Kefka moving the goddess statues, vivi discovering the black mage factory, the battle with Yunalesca....

[@pauldehayes1898]

I see that you too are a man of culture. The Zeromus fight music was (and still is) one of my absolute favorites from the franchise, save for the Jecht fight in X. Yunalesca was a wild (and frustrating if you're not expecting it) boss fight.

[@elizabethchint6485]

You mad for what? This is about cultural impact. The Nibelheim incident is one of the most referenced scenes in pop culture.

[@monkadude15]

12:04 thay squeaky sound and Cloud's head moving up and down still give me an uneasy feeling lol

[@56Tyskie]

The true reveal always puts a tear in my eye

[@helenafarkas4534]

I've always liked Last Order's deviation, as it is apparently the Official Record according to Shinra as to what happened. and it would be utterly INCONCEVIABLE that a puny little trooper who wasn't able to make SOLDIER could "kill" Sephiroth. so OBVIOUSLY he had to jump.

[@stanm4410]

Makes a lot of sense for Shinra to frame it that way. It also follows the spirit of the original game in that Tseng reading the official report to the audience makes him an unreliable narrator just like Cloud was.

[@Unko-Q]

yoo… this prolly a stretch since Tifa’s dad was already dead… but imagine if one of the random hooded wanderers we get to meet in Rebirth … ends up being Tifa’s dad because Hojo took whatever random human bodies from the original Nibelheim incident and did his jenova cell injection experiments on them.

[@LunarWingCloud]

I love the Nibelheim incident as an example of how a situation can seem different based on the perspective

[@notmayo]

Have you played the Rebirth demo yet?! I had just finished it when your video popped into my feed!

[@chazclark86]

It blew my mind back in the day ngl! Wish I could get that first playthrough again! Remember phoning my mate about screaming! Cus we was both playing the game at the same time, so hype man. Love the way they handled it all and the expansions and that, but there’s still questions lol. And big up Zack btw, handled like a goofy champ 😂 yo rebirth is gonna be wild 🤩

[@MinhLe19303]

24:40 I remember the change actually from Before Crisis, as not only did that happened, Player Turk involved in Nibelhelm Incident, which should not happened. I think that change was suppose to be canon before Crisis Core retcon it.

[@devak45167]

I cannot wait to see how Rebirth handles this. Amazing video, love this!

[@Vaquix000]

Significantly worse, obviously. The best thing about the scene was the shock factor of your cool hero friend turning into something like that. The remake has shown no cool hero side of sephiroth, they have introduced him as some annoying guy that randomly pops up at inappropriate times to try to sound mysterious. He's just irritating. So in Rebirth it would be "oh that annoying swordsman that I beat up in the last game burned down a village I guess. Turns out the evil guy is evil." It would have no impact whatsoever.

[@awsomeboy360]

@@Vaquix000 Unnecessary cynicism. I'll wait for the game to come out.

[@GooseGumlizzard]

@@Vaquix000 in the original it wasnt a "twist" either than Sephirpth was bad

[@powerofk]

It wasn’t at all. The “twist” came later-when the whole Cloud/Zach thing happened. Sephiroth became the main villain as we were escaping Midgar and were captured in the Shinra tower. The purpose of the story dump of the Nibelheim incident in Kalm is about explaining “Who is this Sephiroth guy.” Honestly, though, the FF games don’t often hide the ball on who the main villain of the game is (though it’s about 50/50 that the main villain is also the final boss)@@GooseGumlizzard

[@elizabethchint6485]

@Vaquix000 You are on like every video about Sephiroth bitching. It's quite amusing how rent-free he lives in your head. Is that you Cloud? 😂

[@TheWingus]

They never should have said the one kind was non-cannon. The fact that the Nibelheim Incident is slightly different based on every witness and retelling makes it so much more mysterious and cooler.

[@Soulasiangod]

not only that last order and before crisis have Seph committing suicide while og and CC have cloud knocking him in Reactor. one can be Non-cannon but not both. i came up with a Final Fantasy VII: Reincarnation Theory that can put some of the missing pieces together. may even why Shinra felt the need to get Seph mom a Turk bodyguard when no other scientist had one

[@ThwipThwipBoom]

Lmao no it doesn't.

[@Soulasiangod]

@@ThwipThwipBoom my theory says the livestream moves from planet to planet and have everything act pretty much the same way and Jenova is from last planet life stream is on. My theory makes everything cannon and if Shinra had Jenova dna they could tell what kind of human it came from...

[@codyhoward7640]

I think this is an event that still confuses people. Many fans I've had conversations with believe the lie that Sephiroth told Cloud that he's just a clone, and the full truth of the matter tends to allude them

[@plutonium120]

i myself never realized the truth until a few years ago - and from another yt vid no less. from which point i learned about crisis core and watched an entire 'movie' of the cutscenes. and to this day the only a way a player would really know the truth is if they 1. played enough to discover hidden cutscenes. 2. played or 'watched' crisis core. or 3. watched a vid like this piecing it all together.

[@codyhoward7640]

@@plutonium120 they may not be able to obtain the full picture true, but the base game does enough to show that cloud is not a clone at the very least

[@OmegaUberDeathbot]

To show how thought this story was, did you know that the only reason why Cloud was able to injure Sepheroth was because he had the First Strike materia equipped? It is an easily missed detail earlier in the story.

[@Warrior-Of-Virtue]

Not long after I learned about Zack and Cloud's escape from Nibelheim and subsequent journey to Midgar, I found myself wondering what would have happened if Hojo's experiments hadn't damaged Cloud's mind. Could they have fought off the Shinra soldiers together? Would Zack have joined Avalanche along side Cloud? And how would the rest of the story play out if he did?

[@Tirrast]

People do a lot of what if scenario stuff on youtube. I think we need some final fantasy what if's for exactly this.

[@jaydarke]

Great question! Though being that Cloud was pretty much a Rookie at that point in the story; I don’t think the ending would have changed. Just that they may have killed more soldiers.

[@boozeman4749]

​@@jaydarkeNot sure about that since Zack took out an army by himself. So I think Cloud could handle 3 people. Plus if Cloud wasn't sick then Zack would be training Cloud on their almost year journey back to Midgar.

[@billybatts8283]

Cloud was as strong as Zack just not experienced. He never made Soldier die to mental reasons, not physical he had a massive inferiority complex.

[@garwynrosser8907]

There's quite a few hints buried in the original game that explains how Cloud managed to defeate Sephiroth. I'm not entirely certain that Cloud being born in Nibelheim to a single mother is completely unrelated to his ability to beat Sephiroth. At least, running into naturally formed materia fountain before reaching the Mako reactor is a "convenient" comparison to the method used by Hojo to replicate the process of recreating an ancient. It also explains why cloud walked away from the fall when he was a child and use pre-emptive strike materia after "failing" soldier training.

[@Bitterlemon84]

😱😱😱 how I understand now EVERYTHING!! Thanks for that video!!

[@patrickk1417]

I never saw sephiroth burn any town. Just a burning town. He must have been super fast and go around lighting each house on fire and then for some reason returning to the exact same position and then getting preemptively striken by cloud

[@simongratson]

Fire3

[@jediknight2079]

And Magnify.

[@Malgarroth]

"Around the same time"?! I waited two literal years between Last Order and Crisis Core. Crisis Core wasn't even announced until 2007 (the 10th anniversary) and released in September of that year. Last Order released in the same year as Advent Children.

[@kirara2516]

I think Cloud is far more than we think. Hojo experimented on him, and gave him Jenova cells, yes, but if we accept Crisis Core as canon (which it is as its a prequel) Hollander, the scientist workong on the other project involving Genesis and Angeal tried to create clones or replicas in their images. People and monsters with both Genesis and Angeal's faces. Their ability was to clone or transfer their power and likeness to others, which might have been why they both suffered degradation as something like that would take a large toll on the body. Angeal, however, with his honor code mainly transferred his cells to monsters instead of humans. With Lazard being the only human (If I remember right) to have been given Angeal's cells and thus turned into an Angeal copy. Angeal also imprinted his likeness into a four-legged winged creature which then watched over Aerith. Perhaps it did this as a way to help Zack and Aerith herself never seemed too bothered by the beast's presence. But what is the condition for transferring part of themselves to others? That part is never really disclosed over. When Zack is forced to kill Angeal and end his suffering, to protect Angeal's sanity and morals, Angeal also gives the Buster Sword to Zack, passing on his legacy. This one moment could be a lot deeper than we first think. Angeal's ability to transfer his cells might have acted in that moment and partially transferred to Zack, but unlike monsters and Lazard who ended up wearing Angeal's likeness, Zack retained his identity. However if you look at Zack's features from before the Modeohiem mission and the next time we see him back at Shinra, his hair is very different, brushed back and a bit more tame. His face has also taken on a more serious tone, too. True, that could have bene caused by the trauma we went through that changed him, but what if Angeal did transfer some of himself to Zack? Unlike the others that got a full dose, Zack received more of a gentler transference. So that Angeal's cells wouldn't completely try to overwrite Zack's and be more of a compliment to his character rather than overtake him. This could be why Zack became a failed experiment for Hojo. Angeal's cells prevented Hojo's tests from giving the twisted scientist the results he wanted, and he might not have realized why, so he wrote Zack off as a failure. Cloud's failure would have been for different reasons, but he did get infused with mako. Cut to the cliff. Zack is laying there, dying, and he has slowly come to realize that he wasn't going to survive. So he passes on his sword and legacy to Cloud. But the way he worded it was.... interesting. "My sword. My dreams. They're yours now. You'll be my living legacy." Why'd he word it that way? Zack wanted Cloud to live and keep going. But what if there was a different meaning to that? At this moment, Cloud is mako stick and is recovering. He is alert, and trying to absorb things around him that he wasn't able to before. His mind is now more alert and trying to get an idea of what's going on and recement who he is. This is the crucial state where Cloud could have gone in any direction mentally. Had he been in Hojo's care at that moment, he may very well have gotten his Sephiroth clone. However, he was thankfully with Zack; a friend. Who wasn't trying to take advantage of him or turn him into anything other than who he was. or was he? I'm positive Zack might not have intended it, or even realized, because Angeal's ability to transfer his cells and legacy had been so gentle with Zack, but in turn, Zack passed on Angeal's sword to Cloud nearly the same way he was given the blade and suddenly, Zack was the one with the ability to transfer cells to others. Everything Zack had become was transferred to Cloud, but in the same gentle way that Angeal had transferred his own influence. However, unlike Zack who wasn't already experimented on by Hojo when this happened, Cloud emotionally wailed in despair at Zack's passing, and deep on the bio level of both kinds of experiments (Project G and Project S) both cells were now in one subject: Cloud. In this moment. When Cloud is screaming into the sky, looking up as visions flash before his eyes and we see it as a montage: both types of cells are combating and trying to claim dominance. Maybe, that is why Cloud thinks he is in Zack's position, and reliving events through Zack's POV, rather than his own? This would explain a few things. Cloud still knows he's Cloud, because Angeal never tried to turn Zack into a copy, nor did Zack try to turn Cloud into a copy of himself. But the S cells might have tried to twist that up, and that is the cause for Cloud's lack of memory, and his headaches and static flashes he gets. Cloud is the result of TWO science projects within Shinra. And no one involved with it intended for it to happen. The theory I mentioned with the gentle transference From Angeal to Zack and then to Cloud also has another hint for it. In a time of need and guidance, Zack saw a vision of Angeal. Heard his voice and it helped him escape the mansion and Hojo's grasp. That might have been the Angeal cells within Zack giving him strength to keep going. Years later, when Cloud is fighting Sephiroth at the end of Advent Children and is badly injured, and about to lose, Time slows for Cloud and Zack appears behind him, giving him strength in his resolve and allowing him to defeat Sephiroth. Both Cloud and Zack saw a vision of the former ones that might have transferred Project G as a way for self preservation and pushing forward. This isn't a very common theory. And so far only myself and my roommate have even humored the idea, but there are a good number of details that support it.

[@funkeymanx]

wait. What's is game at 0:52 ? I never saw this gameplay before.

[@thefellduck]

So looking forward to the next installment of the remake

[@voborny]

The Nibelheim incident indicates when the world's greatest hero became the world's most ruthless villain. Hands down the most badass and tragic villain ark in video game history

[@Vokcas01]

I always thought the reason Seph murdered everyone in Nibelheim was due to he found out the Mayor of the town and a select few knew about Jenova and the Reactor, it would make sense; it was a live reactor, someone must of knew or kept people out there from discovering Jenova.

[@GCharlesE]

Absolutely incredible retelling!!

[@bonanzabrandon6877]

My favorite part of FF7 was when Cloud turned the tables on Sephiroth and tossed him down the reactor pit.

[@elizabethchint6485]

Him using the power of "I'm the main character" really was something.

[@Daboy804]

My favorite part was when Cloud said “Sephiroth…this is our Final Fantasy VII” then sephiroth laughs and said “No cloud. I am the Final Fantasy VII” then they hug.

[@elizabethchint6485]

@Daboy804 That shit was intense, ngl. Pure cinema 🎥

[@Vaquix000]

As funny as it was, it made him lose his sense of threat. He had to transform to be any threat to the party, when he tried to fight cloud again in his human form he couldn't even get one move in. Which makes perfect sense - if a pissed off, ridiculously underleveled cloud can just throw him away, of course a super experienced cloud who just beat two of his transformations can easily destroy him.

[@Drw-id-Kirin]

@@elizabethchint6485 Go look at Crisis Core where he has plot ghost smoke coming out of him while he wins. LOL Nomura filled the plot hole using plot ghosts.

[@j.r.shartzer]

I just finished Crisis Core Reunion, and, did I miss something, or does the town not burn in that version? I was so confused because I thought Sephiroth basically killed everyone in the town but you don't really see that in that version. I don't think? I do have ADD and don't always see every detail.

[@callmeshaggy5166]

"Am I... ... a human being?"

[@Mark_GL]

The problem with expanding the story (aka make it up as you go to make profits) is that you undermine the og story. What is the cannon version? Only the 4 of them in the reactor, or even Genesis and the whole Turks there too? Shingeki No Kyojin built a great story from first episode, but FF7 is becoming more like choose what ever version you like, wich for me, is nonsense.

[@SableWind]

The best option is to ignore the compilation as much as we can. The original is still the best. The Remake is posed to do something original and interesting, it certainly is better written than all the BS that came out in the 2000s

[@NeroLucifarious]

"Cloud Strife...He was SOLDIER damn it." -Seph-Dawg

[@BenkaiDebussy]

I think the biggest question is whether Sephiroth was being manipulated by Jenova when he loses his mind. It's possible that Jenova manipulated him with the kind of obvious desire of being freed (and since Sephiroth has Jenova cells, such manipulation should be possible). You could also maybe argue that the end goal was for Jenova to end up in the life stream, but that's a much shakier idea (it's consistent with the Last Order depiction, but that's non-canon).

[@General_reader]

So when cloud threw Sephiroth into the life stream did he proceed to the northern cavern from inside the planet

[@max1311]

The only thing missing would be to say that Sephiroth was wrong, he never knew his mother was Lucrecia and his father Hojo, that he and Jenova were not ancients and finally that he kills the daughter of the only person he seems to respect, professor Gast.

[@sasha1mama]

Seems to me like the devs overcomplicated the whole thing, adding too many different perspectives and witnessess over the years. I mean, the original set of viewpoints was enough - they didn't have to have Genesis be there, and then the Turks, and then who knows who else. They cluttered it too much.

[@rezamosleh4561]

I have a question about nibelheim incident. Of all people, why was Sephiroth sent to Nibelheim? Was that Hojo's plan? Or it was just by chance?

[@neoshadowdukeofgames8223]

Thanks for the details. I was wondering about how the nibelheim incident has been retconned (not sure if that's the right usage of the word) with each of the versions.

[@adamorth5335]

Excellent work. You folks are impressive

[@Balto678]

Great video, dude. I got a little triggered when No Promises to Keep started playing 😅. I'm so ready to play Rebirth!

[@fernandozavaletabustos205]

Great video analysis!

[@mr.delgoth]

I would like to add something onto this that maybe not a lot of people will call canon and is only slightly connected to this but in ever crisis Halloween event at one point young sephiroth is in shinra manor and is in the room of book he gets a headache like cloud been having in remake and text pop with hojo (I don't remember everything he said but from I remember he says) hold on to that pain. It's what makes you stronger.

[@weirdbeardgame]

One of the things that I always appreciate is that aside from the identity crisis, Cloud's story is for the most part Absolutely 100% correct. Again, that's except for the identity crisis / which one he is in the story given we know most of that is actually Zack's part. Even to the point Tifa can't believe how accurate it is. And that it was cloud himself who ultimately did an albeit semi worn from fighting Zack and not fully stable Sephy in. But even more impressive is that every time after that they fight even with Sephy at his absolute best, Cloud always wins

[@fisherjohnson3440]

Yeah Sephiroth is as evil as Darth Sidious/Lord Voldemort/Sauron. Sephiroth killed all the people of the town with his Giant Sword and then set the whole town on fire. Then Cloud wakes up and then Tifa wakes up.

[@Peterporker92]

Smashing videos guys, getting me more hyped for Rebirth!

[@Forever_Zero]

Consider me surprised if Rebirth even acknowledges Before Crisis. I know the whole compilation is canon but it's never been put together in a single game, I wonder how that would work

[@sinjull2256]

I didnt know there was an animation done about the nibleheim incident, what is it named?

[@ShilohLux.13]

Pretty sure it is The Last Order. Edit: I forgot to mention that it is considered non-canon because there is differences from the canon story.

[@OriginalRyan]

I think it's most important for Cloud's character arc & to a slightly lesser extent, Tifa. He WAS there with Tifa, but at that point, he was too ashamed and/or embarrassed to admit it to Tifa that he wasn't in Soldier. He was JUST a soldier. Tifa knew the time difference but didn't want to tell him to try to protect him. It's arguable if what she did was right or wrong, but ultimately helped Cloud realize he never needed to be the next Sephiroth, but the first Cloud.

[@elizabethchint6485]

Cringe

[@nutzy99ify]

If FF7 ever taught me anything, it is that you always do what is right

[@shadowkras]

This dude never heard of the Doma Castle poisoning incident by Kefka.