Why the Stab Movies are HURTING Scream

[@Blast2224]

I have to agree that it’s time to depart from STAB movies being a key role in motivations. Scream 2 used Stab as a comment on films glamorizing actual violent events, but Scream 3 used it as a plot crutch, Scream 4 tried to use it as a franchise similar to SAW where it was basic teenage culture, and SCREAM 22 tired to use it as an entire motive. It’s not clever anymore.

[@coolnerdlll6053]

The new one used it to make fun of toxic fans, who are the scum of the Internet (looking at you, Star Wars "fans"), so I'm fine with it.

[@jaguarrose7022]

I agree! The first 2 movies had excellent character development with exciting and creative plot. Those stories drew us in because they felt real relatable, that's jow they managed to be scary without the killer having any supernatural abilities. When they switched to focusing so heavily on the Stab movies the quality decreased. Stab became a crutch and the meta aspect has become gratuitous.

[@silentsaturn7604]

@@coolnerdlll6053 This!

[@eatatjoes6751]

My drop-off point for the Stab movies was when it started being used for Toxic Fandom and like, We Get It, but realistically people would just see it as that horror franchise that went off the rails after the main actress sued with, like, a few less than notable crazies in it.

[@silentsaturn7604]

@@eatatjoes6751 You mean like people just view Star Wars as that franchise that went of the rails after the initial trilogy and don't spend all their waking hours hating on it for the past 20+ years?

[@Matter-Dark]

I’d love to see it mentioned that the Stab franchise is now completely dead due to the events of Scream 5. It’d be a final “F-You” to Richie and Amber, instead of saving the franchise, they actually ended up killing it for good.

[@Xehanort10]

Have the studio go "Shit. Our newest Stab film inspired 2 new killers. We've made all the money we can from this and the media will be after us if we make another one. Shut it down."

[@Nightfall_78]

Agree 100%

[@AustinD367]

Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if the opposite happened. Studio greed wanting to make more even though it’s morally wrong and Amber and Richies plan technically working. That’d be pretty neat

[@teddybearkiller5271]

No they just start a brand new timeline and reboot the whole franchise throwing everything out the window and starting from scratch. It becomes a huge success and new killers are born.... or something... Idk

[@anthonyshepherd265]

@@AustinD367 welcome to Hollywood

[@realpeter1052]

They literally just exist so scream can be like “wow we’re making fun of ourselves so funny and meta”

[@_am_5781]

I agree. I think the stab franchise as a plot point has run its course. Hope 6 and 7 stay away from there

[@giovannigiovanni.7220]

No.

[@Dontannoyme34894]

In Scre4m there was a missed opportunity to reference torture movies like saw, the loved ones, human centipede, hard candy. And with 5cream, they could’ve played with the psychological horror idea. I know it’s a slasher at the end of the day, but poking fun at these popular types of horror can keep scream feeling fresh and current.

[@arthurr.r.lucasspublicdoma5621]

They actually referenced Saw IV (2007) in Scream 4.

[@nikeneon3188]

When Scre4m was released, there were classic slasher movie remakes trend (My Bloody valentine, Black Christmas, When The Stranger Calls, House of Wax, April Fool's Day, Prom Night, The Texas Chainsaw, Halloween, Friday 13th ext), I think they considered this trend to be bigger and easier to play around.

[@moviehoarder8382]

I 100% agree. 🔪

[@jaguarrose7022]

Zach, you are the gift that keeps giving! The folks in charge of the Scream franchise should hire you as a consultant because you have the clearest understanding of the universe I've ever encountered -and I spend A LOT of time watching Scream movie analysis commentary. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ and 👍🏽👍🏽

[@ZackCherry]

Thank you! I'm available to consult haha

[@theepicwolfnetwork5220]

Hire him and Beyond the Mask😊

[@moviehoarder8382]

I 100% agree Zach is the best for Scream news and culture. 🔪

[@NickyJamesTV]

I agree. Also there's no reason to HAVE TO have Stab. It was a one off joke that for some reason became mandatory.

[@BboyTev007]

It was kind of a red flag for me when glaring continuity errors were extremely noticeable on the first viewing. It wasn’t even anything that you needed to freeze frame to notice.

[@BboyTev007]

i.e. Sid being in all 7 yet she sued after Stab 3

[@ZackCherry]

Agreed. It took me out of it, and that was only in the first 5 minutes. I would never say the writers aren’t fans, but there definitely should have been a lot more attention to detail. Especially with something that was expressly stated at the beginning of the previous movie.

[@TheBanshee90]

@@BboyTev007 They didn't say she was in the first 7 stab movies. The killer said she was in all but the last stab movie. I think this is actually a really good in universe Killer joke. Look at stab 1 through 3. We know Sidney is in each of these movies. Look at stab 5 and 8. Stab 5 has the killer going back in time. 8 has its unrealistic golden god ghost face killer.... The joke is the fanboy killers don't view 5, 6, 7, or 8 as part of the franchise. A common meme used by fanbases. Like man what a shame that they never made the last season of Dexter or Game of Thrones. It is clear after 4 the Stab franchise has jumped the shark. Ritchie even says Stab 4 is one of the better sequels. I mean Stab starts out as a retelling of Real Life Events and stab 5 has Time travel and 8 seems like a comedy lol. It has basically become the in-universe version of the Fast and Furious Franchise.

[@SilasPrescott]

@@ZackCherry Samara Weaving is the OPENING KILL. She has found fame and fortune in faking surviving a Ghostface attack. RICH and FAMOUS. Lives with her husband. She's at home watching television where she receives a phone call from none other than Ghostface. He taunts her saying he knows her secret and she's a PHONY. An HOMAGE is paid to Casey/Tara where Weaving plays with a knife block but this time around, it's covered in BLOOD when she pulls it out. It's at this point where she watches her husband brutally murdered on their AMAZON SMART VIDEO DEVICE in the kitchen. She runs to help him out but he's already DEAD. Chase ensues and Weaving meets her DEMISE, but she pulls off the mask to reveal CHAD as the first GHOSTFACE. We know Chad is one of the killers throughout the entire movie. Weaving was the original choice for this scene and thankfully replaced D-lister Kiernan Shipka. MOTIVE: Targeting all previous survivors of Ghostface attacks. Samantha has a big monologue at the end, stating how she's nothing like Billy Loomis and she is donning the Ghostface persona to end all future attacks. She is the only one who can protect her and the ones she loves and will do anything it takes to do so. Mindy: DIES at the hand of Sam (Ghostface). Mirrors SMG's death scene in Scream 2. Chad will never kill or harm his sister and Samantha takes it upon herself to take care of her. Three killers: Chad, Sam, Kirby. Kirby is the mastermind, paying homage to WILLIAMSON'S SCREAM 3 original SCRIPT, CULT OF STU MACHER/THE FOLLOWING. Kirby only has one kill: Samantha. Kirby states that she thinks she's the Final Girl, but there is only one REAL Final Girl - SIDNEY FUCKING PRESCOTT. It's time Kirby pays a visit to an old friend & IDOL. Epilogue: Kirby kills Kincaid in front of Sidney at their matrimonial home. It's brutal and vicious. Kirby escapes. This is when we see Sidney described in her most feral, vengeful moment. It's described as animalistic and nothing we have seen before in Sidney. She wants revenge for this. Now, it's personal. This sets up Scream 7.

[@o0BlackSand0o]

So obvious errors makes the writing feel lazy

[@Ep1cTV]

I’ve said before that I believe Scream 3’s downfall was being the film when they realized they were making a sequel to a hit franchise. In scream 1, there were no stakes, no expectations. So they were allowed to play with any horror tropes and deconstruct them. But by Scream 3, they needed to make a “scream” film. If you’re making a sequel to Scream, you don’t need any of those fancy things called “new ideas and characters ”. Just plop Sidney in the plot and have her kill a teenage psycho. It also needs to have some topical commentary about something because that’s what a “scream film” does right? It needs tons of meta self references like Stab because that’s screams specialty right? Scream can’t play around with any horror tropes anymore because it’s too busy checking boxes on it’s own tropes and expectations.

[@eatatjoes6751]

I think 4 was the peak of Stab referential humor.

[@nu-metalfan2654]

@I Changed My Name. This is the problem. When the original Scream came out it was trying to be completely different and a fresh take on the Slasher genre. Now it’s hard to be different and fresh when you’re doing the same thing over and over again, which the original Scream poked fun at. Scream has become the tired cliche it was poking fun at. Before Scream 5 came out i was saying that I hoped it was going to be different and not use that same Scream formula that’s now tired. But then I got comments from people saying “but it’s not Scream if it’s not meta and doesn’t focus on teenagers”.But unfortunately Scream 5 did use the same old tired tropes. Those people misunderstood what the original Scream was doing, it was trying to be different at that time, now it needs to be different again.

[@titothat1guy287]

@@nu-metalfan2654 Yes i 100% agree with you thats exactly why i found scream 2022 so disappointing because it simply wasn't doing anything new. It was just movie following the rules of a movie. And for me personally that kills the tension for me because it becomes predictable.

[@SilasPrescott]

Samara Weaving is the OPENING KILL. She has found fame and fortune in faking surviving a Ghostface attack. RICH and FAMOUS. Lives with her husband. She's at home watching television where she receives a phone call from none other than Ghostface. He taunts her saying he knows her secret and she's a PHONY. An HOMAGE is paid to Casey/Tara where Weaving plays with a knife block but this time around, it's covered in BLOOD when she pulls it out. It's at this point where she watches her husband brutally murdered on their AMAZON SMART VIDEO DEVICE in the kitchen. She runs to help him out but he's already DEAD. Chase ensues and Weaving meets her DEMISE, but she pulls off the mask to reveal CHAD as the first GHOSTFACE. We know Chad is one of the killers throughout the entire movie. Weaving was the original choice for this scene and thankfully replaced D-lister Kiernan Shipka. MOTIVE: Targeting all previous survivors of Ghostface attacks. Samantha has a big monologue at the end, stating how she's nothing like Billy Loomis and she is donning the Ghostface persona to end all future attacks. She is the only one who can protect her and the ones she loves and will do anything it takes to do so. Mindy: DIES at the hand of Sam (Ghostface). Mirrors SMG's death scene in Scream 2. Chad will never kill or harm his sister and Samantha takes it upon herself to take care of her. Three killers: Chad, Sam, Kirby. Kirby is the mastermind, paying homage to WILLIAMSON'S SCREAM 3 original SCRIPT, CULT OF STU MACHER/THE FOLLOWING. Kirby only has one kill: Samantha. Kirby states that she thinks she's the Final Girl, but there is only one REAL Final Girl - SIDNEY FUCKING PRESCOTT. It's time Kirby pays a visit to an old friend & IDOL. Epilogue: Kirby kills Kincaid in front of Sidney at their matrimonial home. It's brutal and vicious. Kirby escapes. This is when we see Sidney described in her most feral, vengeful moment. It's described as animalistic and nothing we have seen before in Sidney. She wants revenge for this. Now, it's personal. This sets up Scream 7.

[@marteenee88]

We all know it was meant to be a trilogy and to end. But you know studios. I just still think 3 didn't live up to killing at least one major character (Dewey or Gale) when it marketed itself as "ALL BETS ARE OFF".

[@TheZachValentine]

The whole thing about Sidney being in all of the Stab movies except for the last one... THANK YOU!!! I was arguing this over and over again! lol

[@ZackCherry]

Of course. And I'm sure people will argue the scene of Kirby explaining it doesn't count since it was DELETED

[@giovannigiovanni.7220]

@@ZackCherry Yes, it's deleted.

[@nicobellic6151]

I think the only way to fix this would be to have Robert Rodriguez actually make 7 Stab movies.

[@_lalfonsi]

I agree. The only time the STAB movies were uses good in the story was in Scream 2. Even though I love the rest , especially 4, they relied on the STAB movies way to much. They need to stop referencing them.

[@GameOn71213]

You can tell when Kevin Williamson is writing he's very good. He also wrote the best parts of the vampire diaries, so when he stepped back the show was written into a shit storm, they should just let Kevin keep writing

[@holdeck]

I totally agree that they should move away from Stab references. They have worked fairly well so far, but it's getting tired. As someone who went with my family to see S5 (they had only seen 1) I was really worried when they kept bringing up Stab, as it's confusing to the average viewer and unnecessary at this point.

[@daviddorsey5507]

I honestly want to see them focus more commentary on horror films of it’s time. And although I didn’t have a problem with Richie and Amber’s motives, I definitely want the next motives to be something outside of stab

[@psychob8567]

I wish theyd just make a dope slasher mystery without paying homage to the older movies , give us something new the fans dont care about stab we care about scream...

[@kenziej4301]

Oh YES finally someone discussing the important $hit! Stab stretched itself as much as it could go with “Scream 3” cause I had f**king enough with the ridiculousness by the “Scre4m” intro 🤦🏼‍♀️

[@uniquerebeljaney3639]

I quite like Scream 4, but I FUCKING HATE the stupid fake out death openings.

[@randomkillerx2157]

The Scream 4 intro was pretty much the final nail in the coffin for me when it came to the Stab franchise nonsense. I wanted nothing to do with that movie franchise within a movie franchise after that point. It’s amazing how the first Scream movie was innovative and a breath of fresh air within the horror genre but now has become the same cliched horror movie it was making fun of in the first one

[@TheRealSephiroth]

@@randomkillerx2157 i personally didnt mind the fake out openings, and i liked the fact scream 4 touched on remakes but it just doesnt feel the same as the first 3 films, something about it just misses the mark, maybe its the killers motives, cuz those reasons made no sense why would you want bad shit to happen to you?! Its one thing to have it legit like sidney but to make it happen yourself just misses the mark for me.

[@KSS1992]

Honestly I feel that the Stab franchise and it’s lasting prescience in the franchise serves mostly as a way of being a commentary on/dedication to Scream’s legacy and influence on the horror genre but I can totally see how the overuse of it has caused some issues. I think for Scream 2022, the focus on the Stab franchise, especially the first movie, was super appropriate as this movie was a commentary on requels/legacy sequels but also on the potential danger of obsessive nostalgia so naturally using Stab as a metaphor for Scream 1 and people’s love for that movie made so much sense in the realm of the commentary the movie was trying to make. Also it was a great way to give the stab franchise it’s final major focus in a Scream movie, and with the new film they can start fresh and refer less to stab and instead focus on some awesome connections between the legacy and new cast, Kirby and Tara both relating on having their best friend be a killer and the two sisters now bonded by this shared experience of survival etc Also side note I loved how with each of new era scream sort of follows in the footsteps of Halloween, the original of course being a huge homage to the modern slasher craze Halloween helped begin, Scream 4 being homage in a lot of ways to and using the “rules” set by modern remake especially Halloween 2007 (turning ppls expectations on their heads such as Annie surviving and Robbie being killed when he’s Randys remake version and having the fake ending that mirrors the original then the real ending is different), and Scream 2022 definitely a homage to the requels (legacy sequels) that bring back legacy members but introduce new usually younger characters connected to the past

[@shevyrobinson6164]

I still don’t see how the studio was able to continue the Stab franchise after you know the studio head taking advantage of her mom and you know Roman the director being the killer. Sidney had a slam dunk lawsuit

[@JohnCarlosMcMaster]

I didn't bump up against Judy having been in a Stab movie after part 7. Even though Stab 8 is a reboot, I just presumed it still pulled some elements from real life, and included Judy and probably a few other things while also doing its own mostly-new thing.

[@HardestTargett]

If she lived in that in town then she could have been a character in Stab 1,2,or,3 even tho not a character in the first 3 Scream films Maybe she became a cop because she was close to one of the victims and she was mentioned in the novelization which made it into the Stab movies. And Gale might have wrote her into 4-7 out of spite of because the fictional movies still use characters based on real people like Sheriff Dewey and his deputy etc etc etc.

[@nu-metalfan2654]

I couldn’t agree more. Remember there was no Stab in the original Scream, and when a new Scream movie comes out they always say “is it going to be as good as the original”, yet they focus on the Stab stuff which was never a thing in the original Scream. The Stab stuff is indeed hurting the Scream franchise.

[@tylerjackson1806]

I like how it was used in scream 5 but I hope they are done with it. Let’s move on to new things.

[@Lei-AICPhD]

I enjoyed it when Stab felt like another antagonist to Sidney and the others. The plot point in 22 wasn’t necessary but I get it. We need to get back to the main events being our focus.

[@ropesanddragoneggs8494]

Thank you for acknowledging Stab has run its course. I’ve silently thought this for awhile and I kind of wish they’d go back to its dark horror roots. Hopefully, Spyglass will let RS be the weird creative kids and make a movie that will modernize what made Scream so great in the first place.

[@Xehanort10]

4:57 I think a Stab film based on Scream 4's events would have caused Sidney to threaten to sue them again for exploiting her suffering and the deaths of her friends, family and all the other innocents the Ghostfaces killed.

[@TheAverageGamer1]

I don't watch your channel much but I gotta say I'm ADDICTED to anything you put out that's scream related

[@TheAverageGamer1]

Congrats on being VERY close to 100k

[@thehappyharper1380]

Zack your so close to 100k subs!! Well deserved in my opinion too. Found you with my love of SCREAM being reignited by your who killed who videos. And made me realize I love this franchise more then Friday the 13th my original favourite child hood franchise.

[@victornewmanforever]

From a recent book about Scream (IT ALL BEGAN WITH A SCREAM"), Rodriguez was credited as a nod but was not involved. The Stab clips were the job of the second unit director.

[@justabruin]

It was all Wes Craven. The actors themselves have talked of working with Wes.

[@thebrideofghostface]

I think Stab worked as a part of the mythos in Scream 2 and 4 because it wasn't a huge focus and was just used as a way to create set pieces (ex: movie theatre scene) and to help build to the theme of the film but not in a huge way (helps tie the fame motive of Scream 4 to the rest of the movie). It doesn't work in Scream 3 or 5, because it's used as a center-piece.

[@JohnWilliams-wl9px]

Same. The bigger focus on Stab doesn’t make Scream film ‘meta’ as they think they are but instead still the thing they are making fun of.

[@jonsmith430]

I personally would love like 30-45 minutes adaptations of the Stab movies honestly. Stab 4-7 sound wild lol

[@Chloesnomore]

What always confused me is how the directors of Stab found out the little details they did lie knowing Billy and Sidney's entire conversation they had in the school hallway even though in the original the scene no one was near

[@IamTheFinalWord]

This was absolutely fascinating and so well put together. I have watched it twice already. Prob one of the best deep dives I’ve seen. This is why I keep watching. Keep up the great work and keep’em comin!

[@FreeThinkAlways]

Great video zack 👍 Sometime in the future will you be making a countdown list of your favourite horror movies in a video? Or possibly your favourite kills in the scream franchise from worst to best? Would be great to see

[@SashaRicky]

Thankfully it could be explained away as additional information for continuity, that Judy was included as a character in Stab 7. As Stab 7 took place in Woodsboro and would've likely been imitating parts of the Scream world again, but in a 'real world' New Nightmare way; Dewey would likely have been the sherrif in Stab 7 as he actually was in the Scream world, working with the high school classmate of Sidney Prescott as his deputy; Judy.

[@ZackCherry]

They would sooner make up a new character. It's too much of a risk for a studio to take. Plus Judy had no involvement in anything when Stab 7 was released.

[@SashaRicky]

@@ZackCherry I don't think she needs to have been involved in anything Scream related before including her in Stab 7. Judy's connection working in Woodsboro with Sherrif Dewey and having been in high school with Sidney was probably intriguing to the producers. No reason why Judy wouldn't have agreed to be a character in the film either if she was approached. Think of how weirdly starstruck of Sidney Judy was when they met again in Scream 4.

[@silentsaturn7604]

I actually think she could have very well been in Stab 8. As a franchise so heavily build on real life events, they would probably go out of their way to get some of the real life characters in there. Looking at how the main three probably all refused, Judie was the next best option, as the only other survivor of Scream 4 (give or take Kirby). Stab 8 was a reboot but that doesn't mean its not taking inspiration from the events of Scream 4, in itself a failed reboot attempt of sorts. I don't really see this as a plot hole myself tbh.

[@SashaRicky]

@@silentsaturn7604 Yeah, like even Ritchie says that Stab 8 has "no connection to the other movies" and "no legacycharacters at all". Judy isn't a legacy character so they could have included her in some way. I don't know if Stab 8 is considered a sequel though? When Wes says his Mom is in one of them, Mindy responds, "no one cares about the inferior sequels". That's the only thing that could lead me to thinking that Judy was in Stab 7 and not 8.

[@silentsaturn7604]

@@SashaRicky Judy wasn't considered a legacy character of the Scream franchise either, so that would perfectly fit. I think you can consider a reboot as a sequel in a long ongoing franchise. I wouldn't put too much emphasis on this, especially since Mindy was just joking around.

[@smhksmhk]

Randy says in Scream 2 that Gale Weathers stars in Stab! Did we all miss this? So Gale played herself in the first Stab? He says it when he and Sidney see Gale for the first time about 20 mins into the movie! “Soon to be a motion picture starring Gale Weathers!”

[@fogatasideral1231]

Another plot hole in Stab I've never seen anyone address: Randy's actor. In Scream 2, right after Tori appears on TV, Randy mentions he is played by Joey Garfield. However, in Scream 5, he is now played by Christopher Speed. It is never mentioned why Randy even thinks Joey Garfield plays him.

[@JXIACORP]

Low key would love to see the Stab films that the in-screen characters are watching. Even if it’s just a reboot of the Scream movies in some way

[@lloydneal3137]

i’m nodding my head on every point, you always hit the nail on the head👏🏼

[@adamwentz8518]

I always thought it would be funny if the characters mentioned a cheap Hallmark version of Stab called something like "The Sidney Prescott Story"

[@JetWindTV]

I think the movies also say something about the year they are made in with their commentary. The debate on if movies cause violence, the OJ Simpson trial. hollywood abuse, the rise of social media, toxic fandoms, etc. I just am not sure what commentary and message Scream 6 can have or if they can properly cover a topic without time to fully come up with proper conclusion. These films are for the most part properly written or at least offer something even if Scream 3 is personally a weak spot for me. I am just concerned on where they go next.

[@benhaynes4409]

Agree - stab didn’t exist in the first film which is always hailed as the best. Just like Halloween didn’t create the rule of the sibling - that also came in part 2. They need to go back into the mindset of the original

[@slasherclone9281]

I really do hope the next scream movie takes Billy’s advice, really can’t be summed up better than ‘watch a few movies, take a few notes.’ Get creative with it, give us something new. Also give us confident killers for once, it’s a game after all and at least one Ghostface should treat it as such. I love the Asymmetrical genre of gaming and there’s nothing quite like facing someone who seems know everything you’re doing. Who’s prepared for each eventually and who kills you when they’re ready, not before. Make it about the chase and show why Ghostface can out maneuver the cops, actually ditch a costume or show one being planted for later. I wouldn’t mind seeing Ghostface recruiting a support character, someone who’s on team Ghostface but not necessarily a Ghostface. This could change it up and offer a reveal not seen before. There are lots of reasons someone might help but not be capable of costuming up and a lot of utility someone could bring watching everything unfold on monitors. Having Ghostface break off pursuit to intercept another character from escaping or walking directly to a hiding place because the little voice in their ear told them too, would be fun.

[@sketchtheparadigmyork1217]

You’re missing one important thing in scream 5 I think… MINDY (our new cinema buff) compares STAB to STAR WARS. Making it apparent that the characters in scream know for themselves that Stab is turning into trash. I believe that’s kinda the point. And I believe that’s why they probably WILL stop making stab movies in the scream universe… given that the most recent killer killed purely only to keep the franchise going. If they play it right, the narrative will in fact steer away from Stab. And as you mentioned, Gale isn’t going to write about it.

[@tonyveli8752]

Always nice to see you upload! I share the same concern that Stab will again take too much space in 6 based on the rumours that they're filming scenes in a theatre etc. It is said that Scream!! is heavily inspired by Scream2 so Stab might sadly take a large place again

[@ZackCherry]

That’s unfortunate

[@tonyveli8752]

@@ZackCherry plus the fact that it's the first one without Dewey and maybe Sid. I'm so stressed that like you said it might be the "terrible" entry that will hurt the franchise forever but at the same time I love the movies so much that I might still enjoy it only to see more Ghostface

[@Spoilord]

To be fair, Randy would obviously show contempt for Stab because it was a poor retelling of him and his friends' tragedy, and I don't find it difficult that the generation that grew up with the Stab movies would treat them like era defining franchise (as seen with Richie in 5CREAM) even if it isn't great. Otherwise, I agree with most of your point.

[@8Afraidofnoghosts]

I don’t think they should drop it completely, they should strike a balance somewhere between what they did for Scream 2 (where it was seen in the start and mentioned only a couple more times) and what they did for Scream 4 (where it was sort of like a red herring). Definitely worth acknowledging but not make it a driving force of the plot.

[@brianJohnxx]

I’m very hopeful they will drop stab completely for Scream 6…. ESPECIALLY after the killers in Scream 2022 used the Stab movies as a motive which in my opinion wasn’t the best direction to go in even though I loved Scream 2022

[@borderlandwerun]

I came here to add my own thoughts on the topic, but everything I was going to say you already pointed out in your video in methodical detail. The reason "Scream" is a classic is because it is an intelligent, witty, and playfully meta horror movie made by and for people who love horror movies. In an attempt to build on the mythology, though, the "Stab" franchise has such a Mobius strip effect that the sequels ultimately become movies only for people who love "Scream", automatically limiting their appeal and durability. Because the writing is still intelligent, the meta overdose can be fun - the scene where Mindy watches Stab is a rare example of a movie having its cake and eating it, too. However, for all the reasons you stated, the "Stab" franchise really is the weakest link in the chain, because the writers have literally relied upon it to make all the events in the sequels happen. Zack, thank you again for another fabulous "Scream" video.

[@bc5163]

Aside from the Drew Barrymore scene, I enjoyed the call to Sidney in the first film (as the momentum for it was there), the Cici scene in Scream 2 (a needed throwback as her death was a direct copycat of Casey's), and the Cotton/Christine and Sarah scenes in Scream 3 (as different voices were used by ghostface). All other phone call scenes have felt tiring. Although for 4, the Olivia call was sorta fun for the killer's location and the Kirby call was kinda fun for her naming all the remakes released around that time

[@saintAJ219]

The continuity errors really bug me. I tried to think that there were error based on the characters lack of knowledge but that doesn’t really work either.

[@cyruscherry35]

I remember the movie within a movie opening and was exhausted.I thought Amber and Richie did to a good job with the stab movies as a motive however I think it's time to move away from it.I believe with Sidney gone in scream 6,it'll be a good way to purge stab from the movie entirely.. Like we don't need to be Reminded of stab every 30 min

[@benhaynes4409]

Does this mean Stab 3: Hollywood Horror - is a movie produced by Sunrise Studio where the film mentions what Sunrise studio allowed to happen to Maureen? Therefore Sunrise are admitting in their own movie their awful history of SA to young actresses? The plot thickens!

[@fromyourbed_tunes]

i feel like since Judie is a real person who lives in woodsborro, she could have been in a fictional stab story before the events of scream 4. Like it makes sense to base characters on actual cops from the town the stab movies are from?

[@ghostface3652]

Yeah it was cool at first, but now Scream is starting to become the exact thing it was parodying

[@niebo3179]

Wow. What a clever analysis. It has to be one of the best videos you have made. Congratulations. I love Scream 3. I prefer it much more than the idea of the Ghostface cult lead by Stu. I always find Scream 3 very refreshing because it doesn't try to be Scream (1996) again like Scream 4 and Scream (2022), but I get what you are saying. These movies need to be more unexpected. I am so happy to know the next one will be set in New York. I am so fed up with Woodsboro and suburbs houses. And I hope the pretitles scene is not yet another moment with a girl alone in a house. I need to see Ghostface in different environments and creative chases.

[@lukeknutson3191]

you said everything ive always wanted to say. Thank you! I didnt mind the stab angle in scream 2....but thats about it.

[@kade4937]

I do think that it becomes the whole plot of the new scream movies but I do think it would be fun for the og stab movie to be released or like as a short film since the clips were shown so much in scream 2.

[@textme3785]

It's Glad to have you on my Channel ☺️ DM 👆👆to receive your Prize 🎁

[@ITCamefromthePage]

I think that all of these inconsistencies and problems could be solved by releasing STAB novelizations. Scream never had any movie tie-in books and I think it'd be absolutely hilarious to make 8 Stab novelizations to be released to coincide with the films.

[@watertommyz]

I was hoping the new Ghost Face was just obsessed with becoming something "more" than just being a dumb fan of Stab movies. Like a killer who is tired of horror movies but wanting to bring real horror film back, but realizing how Sydney was important to it, more than the movies were. Ultimate stalking plotline wasted imo.

[@TheBanshee90]

I am guessing the reason why the killer in Scream 2022 says Sidney is in EVERY Stab movie but the last one vs saying Sidney is in 7 of the stab movies. Is because the killers don't view Stab 5-8 as part of the franchise IE they aren't canon. Ritchie also claims that Stab 4 is one of the better Sequels. And while Sidney isn't a part of the story officially I can still see Stab 4 being more or less realistic ala scream 1-4. Stab 5 then goes looney toons with the time travel BSery so it is no longer really a Stab movie, but a movie that happens to utilize a ghostface killer. I also feel like Stab 8 could be poking fun at Jason X where after being found dead in space Jason is revived by nanites which makes his plastic hockey mask into a metal one.

[@sketchtheparadigmyork1217]

A lot of people would be disappointed I feel like if stab isn’t at least referenced. I do think you’re overthinking it too lol… The stab movies don’t copy the real events, as made obvious with the time travel entry. Stab doesn’t have to have its own stab movie inside the stab movie. I didn’t like the scream 5 motive, i’ll say that. It does kinda collapse on itself, but I think it still had a purpose- the movie compares STAB to STAR WARS. They know, and they know we know we’re sick of stab.

[@Theyrecomingtogetyoubarbara]

I understood it in scream 2 but now the stab franchise is tired and ridiculous.

[@andrealerma694]

Stab's film was created in Scream 2, and one theory says they simply put on 8 movies during the 25 years since the 1st murder in Woodsboro, Stab's film was created in Scream 2, and one theory says they simply put on 8 movies during the 25 years since the 1st murder in Woodsboro, and because the new directors may just want to focus on making the Scream movies PS: Zach should talk about everything that is happening with Scream 6 with Neve Campbell (because some say they come back and others say not anymore)

[@bluewaterdragon0292]

Another possible way is saying the franchise got dropped from public perception and now fan creators online make their own fan films or fan games based off the movies

[@tdannemaria]

The STAB opening scenes in Scream 4 were actually so ridiculous. What was the need to see them both? It just makes you doubt the movies quality before you even venture into the real plot.

[@Xehanort10]

In Scream 6 I'd have it that the bad reception to Stab 8 and Amber and Richie trying to frame Sam for their murders to inspire a new film kills Stab's profitability for good.

[@millerkatz1463]

Am I the only one who sees the black number 6 in the Scream II logo they're using for the sixth film? sort of neat and I think very intentional.

[@Climinator-op6kh]

What I reckon could be the theme of Scream 6 is going back to where it all began. My theory is that Ghostface will turn out to be a relation of Casey Becker who is actually murdering those who are related to the previous Ghostface's. The motive? Because they believe they can put a bad image on the Stab franchise and therefore end it. However there's also a killer targeting the survivors of the previous films so it's basically a free for all.

[@brentus86]

I couldn't agree more. It's time to end the Stab reliance. Your series on Scream has been powerful. I love it. I think there's actually a great concept for the franchise to focus on without (hopefully) losing its ability to be meta. The emergence of Sam and the revisit to the past via legacy sequels (sorry, Mindy, I'm not using Requel) would feed right into the concept of Serial Killer documentaries. Imagine if Scream 6 gives up the Stab franchise to focus on the killers that came before. Or, at the very least, Billy and Stu. Either a series has already been done, or one is being made at the time of the killings. Might be too meta, but it seems the next logical step in the progression of horror.

[@mysticmonk5037]

Side note: I really think they missed an opportunity to kill Wes in the shower as an homage to the movie Psycho which the killer makes a reference to for basically no reason… Would’ve been the best kill in any Scream film imo. But no, instead they did the “killer behind the door” thing…

[@Sabiliwisely8315]

No. It would have been a ripoff

[@nikeneon3188]

Killers made reference to Psycho in order to prove Judy that he is in her house and make her comeback in order to kill her

[@justabruin]

Rodriguez credit is only a joke as he ALMOST directed Scream when Wes declined. It was all directed by Wes Craven.

[@marteenee88]

I love that you have strong opinions and go into full detail why ... 👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾

[@martinpedersen1392]

I have a feeling some of the “new cast” are actually Stab cast members.

[@halliestickley3687]

Been looking forward to one of your Scream vids! Top form as usual Zack!

[@FreeThinkAlways]

I'm still waiting for Zack to make a countdown of all the kills in the scream franchise ranked from worst to best 🙏

[@fournierman]

I remember reading about the Scream 4 original opening scene back in 2000-2001. It was on a Scream info site, maybe the Sunrise Studios one.

[@sgillman16]

Scream 4 wasn't even released until 2011

[@fournierman]

@@sgillman16 I know. That's what makes it even cooler. I printed it out back then. I just do not know if I still have it.

[@bigdpitchas]

remember judy hicks was classmates with sidney at woodsboro high, so she could conceivably have been a character in any of the stab movies

[@TheBlackDemon1996]

The idea that there was a Stab adaptation of Jill's rampage kinda negates the point the point the movie was trying to make, and more or less makes it so she won in the end.

[@Jessfrogger88]

The original Scream 3 idea sounds so bad to me... I'm actually glad that got squashed. This is very interesting though.

[@robertotenuta9011]

I totally agree with you. I Think for Stab is enough. Scream is my favourite slasher movie and I wish Scream 6 and 7 stayed away from STAB ✌🏻😄

[@bjames2774]

Well done, again. There’s so much horror content to reference (and not in a Kirby or Babadook way) and yet the franchise continues with Stab references. 👍👍👍👏

[@mylesshelby8052]

This is the most informative and confusing video I’ve ever watched. Well done, sir.

[@scream7614]

What I think about Stab is something yourself have said in other videos, about Scream ending up falling for his own joke that would be a repetition of a single thing in the genre, I think they could have taken advantage of Gale's line in the last movie about Amber and Rich staying anonymous, because since Scream 1, Stab has been referenced either in Killer's motives or commented on about sequels, they're bringing back Gale and Kirby, and all the survivors of the 5th movie they could innovate instead of staying the same as always, because that to me ends up looking like they'd rather stay in the comfort zone

[@thedeepfriar745]

it’s a fictional film franchise inside of a film franchise that’s designed to make fun of itself. Because the Scream series likes to take the piss out of the slasher genre. You’re overthinking it. Just enjoy the parody for what it is. And yes scream is horror comedy

[@tjfrizzi5965]

I would rather a major re-haul of the series. It just seems like a parody now. Make the Meta stuff something that makes the character's smarter and more cautious of their lives. Not just make the Meta stuff be the butt of the joke it's become. Even the characters when they know the killer is around have parties and walk around alone.

[@thomasraines1396]

Isn’t that called lampshading?

[@SalvageRelease69]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I'm fairly certain that Wes craven did direct the Stab scenes, and only put Robert Rodriguez's name at the beginning as a nod since when initially offered Scream, he turned it down and they tried to get Robert, Robert said no, to get Wes.

[@beavers1978]

Please, no more Stab movies.

[@RoverIAC]

Maybe the next Scream movie could be about Stab becoming a streaming series?

[@giovannigiovanni.7220]

This where they could say the Scream TV show is a TV show

[@RoverIAC]

@@giovannigiovanni.7220 oh yeah, I forgot there was a Scream TV show already. is it worth watching?

[@giovannigiovanni.7220]

@@RoverIAC For me, I only liked the 3rd season. Others like to say the first two are good but 3rd sucks, so it could go eith way for you.

[@PurpleRain500]

Seeing this just now, it’s kind of amazing how Scream found a way to slowly step back from “Stab” and completely reference/homage itself in “Scream 6” with the inclusion of the shrine, etc. Although last on my list, “6” was the most inventive and ambitious entry into the series to date, bar none. “Scream 3” remains my all-time favorite with the recently leaked Assembly Cut reinforcing that love. Thankfully, we’ve YET to have a bad Scream film. That said, I don’t know how much more we can ask of “The Core Four” before that happens given how shallow half of the group’s characters are (Chad and Mindy). The series is definitely skating on thin ice. *Cough* BRING BACK *Cough* SIDNEY! *Cough* *Cough* 😳👀

[@bayerhead]

I think the idea of having the stab movies allows them to break the 4'th wall without directly speaking to the audience. It's the same as how the creators of South Park used Cartman to speak their opinions when referencing Family Guy. Also, Stab 5 has time travel. Scream 2022 is the 5'th film and is a soft reboot. Time travel!!!!!

[@justabruin]

They messed up big time because SOMEWHERE a Stab was made on Scream 4 since Judy is a character. And don't tell me she could exist in "other" sequels. She didn't. Judy would only exist in a Stab about Scream 4. The script further screws it up by saying Judy is in "Stab 4." It would be genius to say that Scream 4's events were a "Tv movie" or "series" and sort of make fun of the actual MTV show.

[@ghostchasewrestling]

I think the STAB movies within the Scream movies should stay because it literally gives the viewers the sense that STAB movies in the films universe is the SCREAM movies in our reality and that anyone could wear a Fun world Ghostface costume and go in a killing spree making SCREAM the most realistic and grounded Slasher movie series. Everyone has their own opinion on this but this is my opinion.

[@kevingauthier4379]

I'm predicting that Scream 6 meta arc will circle around "Multi-Verse". City Subways College/University. Sounds like Alternate universe to me.

[@charmer129]

I love the idea of each opening referencing an iconic horror scene and am sad it didn't go that way

[@555aaa8]

My scream ranking 1. Scream (1996) 2. Scream (2022) 3. Scream 4 4. Scream 2 5. Scream 3

[@ShayneRamsay0]

Same

[@coolnerdlll6053]

Switch 2 and 3 and it's perfect. I don't think any of them are bad, but I thought 2 was just boring while 3 was bats**t insane.

[@secondeye1574]

Maybe Scream 6's meta subtext/theme will be about subverting audience's expectations and the baggage and balance that comes with that. They could also talk about fanservice, though Scream 5 mostly covered that with childhood nostalgia.

[@silentsaturn7604]

They could tab into the whole elevated horror period of the 2010th. They mentioned it in the beginning of Scream 5 but didn't really go anywhere with it. They could comment on how this period is now coming to an end and the Slasher genre is coming back to the forefront.

[@eatatjoes6751]

@@silentsaturn7604 The problem with Scream and by extension the Stab franchise is that 4 already covered reboots and whatever the hell 5 is already mangled nostalgia vs. new film, so they're at a dead end.

[@secondeye1574]

@@silentsaturn7604 My comment was actually going to originally mention that, but I think the issue is that would have to leak into the style of the movie. Scream doesn't really do that, it pays homage with scenery, imagery and mostly just overall references. But it doesn't fundamentally change the movie it is based on what it's inspired by

[@wickd658]

Maybe Judy was in the reboot as a new character

[@ZackCherry]

The studio would sooner write a new character. Why risk getting sued?

[@wickd658]

Judy could have acted as a producer / technical adviser as someone who lived through the events of scream 4.

[@canal.do.quintao]

The biggest thing that I didn't like in Scream 5 was the whole thing about the Stab movies and I think it ruined the requel concept. I mean, watched a film with a friend of mine that never watched Scream and he hated because was lost and asking me to explain the story behind the Stab films. I hope Scream 6 and 7 don't make big references to the Stab movies.

[@miserychord11]

Another issue is that in Scream 2, Randy mentions early on that Gale Weathers was starting in the film that she wrote (essentially playing herself)…. So Jennifer Jolie would not have been cast until The sequel. But I’m scream 5. Jolies name is on the cast list of he original. So which was wrong? Scream 5 writers or Randy in scream 2?

[@RobinTimDrake]

Thanks for this. I saw 5 in theaters and something nagged me as to why I didn't like it as much. After thinking about it, I realized why. The killers were homaging and mimicking Stab, not Scream. Unoriginal killers redoing a bad remake of, to them, a real world event.

[@nicolebutterflies1117]

Actually since Judy went to school with Sidney technically she could have been a character within the first stab movie