Why These Christian YouTubers Left the Hyper-Charismatic Movement

[@PaulandMorgan]

Pumped for this😊! Just loaded a plane, will watch as soon as we land. God bless!

[@MelissaDougherty]

So glad you both could be on 😊 Be sure to get some plane peanuts for me! 🥳 🥨

[@kaitlyn8515]

@@MelissaDougherty 🥜🥜🥜

[@MelissaDougherty]

@@kaitlyn8515 whaaaaaat how'd I miss that?! 😆

[@PaulandMorgan]

@@MelissaDougherty ❤️❤️ The plane peanuts were yummy😊 Also, glad we could have this convo, thanks for having us on!

[@miraculousmicrogreens722]

As far as your issues with fertility, have you ever been tested for heavy metals. Excess heavy metals in the body can throw off your hormones and cycles. Look into heavy metal detox with zeolite and iodine supplementation. I'd recommend reading the books Iodine Why You Need It by David Brownstein MD and Taking Charge of Your Fertility by Toni Weschler MPH.

[@jenniferschade7553]

As a recovering Jehovah's Witness it is important for me (and others) to remember: You can be confident and WRONG!

[@seekingthekingdomfirst8089]

Very true,

[@melissamartin8322]

So true! We can all be confident and wrong. For the Reformed, we call it “cage-stage.” 😆

[@patriciamillin-j3s]

I wish I could make that clear to my JW mum, sister and brother.

[@lindacoffman7742]

Another way to say this is that you can be sincere but sincerely wrong

[@langyd4518]

praise the Lord that you were able to come out of that most people don’t find the Lord even though we all can find Him if we seek Him with our whole heart and mind

[@nowisnownowismark8901]

When I lost my son I begged and pleaded with God. I literally weeped the question, “my God, who can bare to lose their son?” He spoke to my heart “I can”. And with those two simple words I was flooded in my thoughts of Jesus on the cross, and the broken heart of God. In that moment. I also immediately understood that though my son would not come to me, I would surely go to him. And until that day, I could trust my grief and broken heart to God. Because he truly understands my grief. I do believe God speaks to us, but I really don’t know about all the words of prophecy we see being passed out like mints. That’s my experience. It was beautiful. And it was for an experience I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy if I had any.

[@JonJaeden]

We have the same loss ... 10 years this February ... I gave the eulogy ... and the gospel was preached to over 100 of my son's lost friends.

[@nowisnownowismark8901]

@@JonJaeden I’m sorry 💔

[@marmeemarch7080]

Wow! Sounds like you got to deeply experience Immanuel -- "God with us." What a powerful story you have.

[@shadowprovesunshine]

Beautiful. Thank you for sharing this testimony.

[@snickersm.5893]

Thank you. I love this❤️

[@mbalinkatekomusic]

The hyper charismatic movement really broke my heart because I wasn't experiencing the things they were talking about. The hearing the "still small voice of God" or having the consistent visions. I thought "What is wrong with me? What am I doing wrong? Am I even saved? Why am I not having this experience?" So I was in a lot of pain because of that. I wanted to hear from God in that way too. Well, the Lord led me to sound teaching, studying His word and a biblically sound church where they do expository preaching. And a lot of that worry and concern has left me because I am hearing sound teaching and relying on Scripture rather than what someone else may have to say, even if they say it in a very confident way. And I am so grateful. So grateful to the Lord. He is so merciful and gracious. And in a way, I am glad that I had that experience because now I love the Word and I am learning slowly but surely because the Lord teaches me.

[@Window4503]

And isn’t that the funny thing? The most loving thing God did in that situation was refuse to give you the deception you wanted, which you were taught is supposed to be a sign of his love. I was there too. Glad you made it out!

[@l.a.w.79]

AMEN

[@GG-wi2ij]

Me too. Ever since I got saved the one thing God was trying to get me to do was study the word. I neglected it for years and went through some hard stuff to get to the point of realizing just how vital study of scripture is for a Christian... I'm not talking about nit picking verses here and there to form an ideal of God that suits our motives or religious doctrine. I'm talking about going from cover to cover reading the stories in context and allowing God to show you truths as you go, letting go of former ideas about God and the way he works. It's very humbling and I've never been closer to him. I'm seeing his acts and hearing his voice more clearly and able to respond in a genuine way.... before I tried so hard to muster up my faith, feelings and spirituality because I was seeking a sign and feelings, instead of God himself

[@prayersquad3391]

I feel your pain. Having a "platform" in the church was what grabbed me and gave me a sucker punch. It hurt for years. Thinking I had been passed over or that I didnt MEET the call. So glad I'm OUT and free.

[@kimneiswanger5804]

You will you will hear Him one day. If you were relying on prophetic fortune telling from Christians than it is good that you went the other direction because I don't think it's so safe. How I see him using other people to give someone else a word in his church is that one day you'll walk up to somebody in the church and you're going to say something about a verse or just something that meant something to you and it's going to be something that person just really needed to hear and in that way I believe is how he uses us to give others a word kind of like iron sharpening iron.

[@tanyalatricestaysonfire3929]

I’ve never heard of the “hyper-charismatic” movement, but I do agree that people can idolize the gifts of the spirit, particularly prophecy. However, in these discussions we also have to be careful to not demonize the gifts of the Spirit. These gifts have been and are mishandled, by those who have been incorrectly taught or have followed the examples of others who are mishandling these gifts. That’s why no matter which side of the aisle you are on, you MUST have a cultivated, personal relationship with the Lord, not one that hinges in the spiritual walk of others.

[@carolinebarley]

Gotta test the spirits. Even the demons recognized the christ!

[@staceylaszlo6321]

Well said Tanya

[@shadowprovesunshine]

Amen!

[@aricamclemore4000]

You said everything I wanted to say and didn't know how to say!! Perfect!

[@alphb58]

Thank you for your comment, I really needed to hear that & check myself.

[@womenofgodunited]

I became an addict of going to healing conferences! I struggle with Lyme disease and was told I didn’t have enough faith and that’s why I am not healed! I would go from conference to conference wanting someone….anyone to lay hands on me for my healing!!! I was chasing the healing not the healer!!!! I am no longer in this place and still struggling with Lyme disease but more stable in my faith ❤️ thank you for this encouraging video!

[@juliannebrancadora3476]

Great video! I don't quite know how to explain it, but it feels like the hyper charismatic movement promotes things that are ultimately carnal: prosperity, feel-good messages, giving to get, how to get our own way. Living the disciplined life is not emphasized - because it doesn't feel good. I was in this movement for 29 years and am so happy to be free of it. I no longer go to church to focus on improving myself and getting my ego stroked. I am no longer there to feel the "wow factor" at the next sign or wonder. I want to love God for who He is, not for how He can entertain me at my demand. I go to church to worship God and learn about walking with him as a disciple, in a disciplined life in the Word of God.

[@truthalonegirl]

Me too! God graciously brought me out of NAR/WOF. Now I read my Bible verses in context. We should be focused on Jesus and not ourselves.

[@jaszzy09]

I completely agree! Some KZbinrs seem more like “psychics” with a christian label. It has such a strong impact on believers and unbelievers alike. As Christians, we really have to sieve/filter/test what we hear and, to do that, we need a deeper understanding of the Bible.

[@iwonder7480]

Hey JS, I totally agree. I did a small study on prophesy in the NT & came up with no other examples of true prophesy ie a message directly from God spoken thru a person, except for Jesus Himself, John the Baptist & the Apostle John. Paul & others appeared to speak prophetically from time to time but not be known as Prophets as a distinct Ministry/Office in the church. After much scouring of the scriptures, I came to the understanding that the reason why these purported prophets appear to resemble mediums & psychics, is because this is exactly what example they mimic, because there is NO NT biblical example for them to imitate. His ways are soo much higher & wiser than ours. I used to wonder why John's prophesy in Revelation was so overtly symbolic & why couldn't God have made it totally crystal clear? Now I understand that the biggest example of prophecy in the NT could in no way be mimicked or faked without the prophesier appearing to be 'non compos mentis'. I am not for a moment, discounting the Holy Spirit's prompting of a Christian to speak a 'word of knowledge' or to speak prophetically in a given situation as God's Spirit wills, but to hold the Office of a Prophet as in the OT, is clearly neither indicated or required in the Church of the NT. Hope you don't mind me babbling on 🤦‍♀️ To God only be the glory, Aussie Sister in Christ 🇦🇺

[@rajhansakima]

Kinda makes you wonder of they're being informed by the same "source", doesn't it? O_o

[@iraqiimmigrant2908]

God gives peace within. No tongues, prophecy, or other stuff needed.

[@iwonder7480]

@@rajhansakima Yep, the flesh gratifying fruit sure shows which tree it gets it's sustenance from.

[@summersunday6675]

I totally agree, as Christian we should also study the Bible and not just depend on the pastor although pastors help us understand the gospel but I believe that God gave us the wisdom to learn and understand the Bible.

[@nathangaul6649]

The thing that rocked me out of the Charismatic Movement was when Jesus said that a wicked and adulterous generation seeks a sign. After that, all things fell into place.

[@giorgiaalexanderactingothe1892]

I think about this phrase a lot and I’ve repented in my prayer time about this, asking for forgiveness for my lack of faith. Another phrase that puts everything into place for me is you will know them by their fruits. I always go back to that.

[@Star-dj1kw]

That’s a good insight

[@rachelm9350]

YEP! 100%. This is a verse that they love to gloss over.

[@jaquirox6579]

I’ve had charismatic family get really nasty with me, after I said that verse. Like the demon just leaped into action. Honestly. 😕

[@Mark-yb1sp]

Same here. I was so wrong.

[@Es-ch3nn]

It's VERY encouraging to see young Christians coming into MATURITY.

[@faaque]

I went to a Women's Aglow meeting and this woman was giving words of knowledge . She told me not to worry that I will find someone to marry . I was already married , I had no wedding ring at the time . I shied away from charismatic movement ever since .

[@kimneiswanger5804]

It seems like this conversation is geared towards denying the power of God and any persons who experience the power. Certainly people will think they hear from God and we know by putting it to the test if it doesn't come to light it wasn't a word from god. Here's the thing the prophets of the Old testament and the New testament prophecy things that would not come about for thousands of years or a hundred years. But they had the faith and knowing that they were walking with the real God their prophecies were picked apart by the Jewish Church of that day but they were accurate prophecies because we have seen them come true in our time. Ezekiel prophecied about what's going on today with Donald Trump as president prophecies are still happening today that were spoken of in the old testament.

[@loveafrica97]

Oh my gosh

[@mwitaemmy]

😅 Oh God! 🤣

[@frogsmoker714]

@@kimneiswanger5804 Ezekiel prophesied about Donald Trump? Please explain and give references. Thanks.

[@kimneiswanger5804]

@@frogsmoker714 also pastor Jack Hibbs is awesome, he speaks of it as well but I love his teaching because he will take a book of the Bible and in his sermon go over verse by verse by verse I just love his knowledge.

[@DW-yq4zn]

I’ve never been hyper-charismatic, but it sounds so much like being in an abusive marriage-always wondering what is wrong with yourself, not able to question the abusive spouse, and always hoping some big change is right around the corner.

[@thestraightroad305]

Nailed it.

[@joshsweetdude]

Nailed it. I was in an abusive relationship while being in the charismatic movement. Once that horrible relationship fell apart, and I was left reeling.. I found out too many similarities with the abusive gf and the general way the movement ran. That was the beginning of my eyes opening and my way out of that movement.

[@rachelchristianson5102]

Yep absolutely exhausting...that's what I experienced

[@hut8_newzealand361]

Well said. And I hope no one ever believes that God in any way treats them like this. Jesus is the bridegroom and the church is his bride and his love is stronger than death and it never fails. These types of people are leading others in the wrong direction and making them both liable to "additional refining".

[@lilafeldman8630]

Yep. I agree.

[@moniquegarcia8361]

I watched Paul & Morgan for a while, but because some of their charismatic beliefs, I stepped back. Excited to watch this!!

[@MrWholdaway]

As an old man (70), I thank God for young believers like the three of you! You continue to share Jesus to the next generation, and I praise God for your faithfulness. It is reassuring to know that long after the Lord takes me home (anytime now, Lord Jesus!) the Good News of our glorious Lord will continue to be preached until he returns! In Him

[@MM-bg7kd]

I was a worship leader and pastor in the “hyper charismatic” movement for 20 years. There is an underlying concept in regards to the prophetic emphasizing partnership with God and the idea of “prophetic potential”. They believe the “word” is from the Lord, but we need to partner with that word. Faith, action, prayer, giving are just a few example of ways we work with God to have the word come to pass. The reason why it’s rare for so-called prophets to speak of their past misses is because they don’t think they’re actually misses. Either people didn’t pray enough, have enough faith or position themself in “alignment for the word to come to pass”. The psychological damage done to people is tremendous.

[@mjgjr706]

Fantastic assessment! I've seen that exact thing over and over.

[@LaCréé.e]

YES to your last point. They won't own up their mistakes and failures. Everything is always shrug under the lack of faith rug. Discussing with them is exhausting.

[@catiesteas]

RIGHT! This is what I have experienced in these “prophecies” as well. I was told that we can and SHOULD “partner with God” in making miracles. It takes our works and faith, and God does the rest. In being “partners with God,” we can say a prophecy out of good intentions and faith, and God can act on it. I was told that God could heal my eyesight from needing glasses /contacts. They laid hands on my face, prayed, prophesied, and then told me to recite a certain psalm everyday until my eyesight was suddenly healed. As if the Holy Word of God was like an incantation… And I saw many others of this same nature. Ones that were intended to be good, but they were only from emotion. And they all were understood to be “activated” by faith after they were spoken.

[@FLP90]

Most prophesies I hear are conditional. They only come to pass depending if the person fulfills the condition.

[@azurephoenix9546]

It's really similar to mormonism. If God didn't answer prayers it was because you had sin you hadn't repented for, or your faith is weak, or whatever, but it was always your fault somehow, they could never be wrong about something and God would never tell you no if you were pure enough or faithful enough, etc. You were in a state of perpetual fear and shame. Made worse when people would give testimony of really ridiculous things like praying to find their house keys and "the holy ghost" helped them to find their house keys. Which only makes your feelings of inadequacy and shame deeper because you can't get an answer to a real issue or problem but these people can get help to find their flippin keys, so the problem has to be you and your personal worthiness and if you could only figure out how they did what they did you too could have personal assistant holy ghost. It just goes around and around and it wears people down and eventually breaks them. But just as with hyper charismatic movements, there are situational "spiritual highs" that keep you thinking that the big truth is right around the corner, if you work harder, pray harder, faith harder, trust harder so you double down on efforts and continue to exhaust yourself on this rubber banding cycle of highs and lows. It's a brutal cycle and it breaks your heart and your spirit.

[@MaccaBased]

I am a Pentecostal pastor. I rarely prophecy. On one occasion, I was praying for a couple whose circumstances were a complete mystery to me. They later said they were disappointed I prayed for them because I didn't know their circumstances. As I approached them to pray for them, I waited for a Holy Spirit lead about how I should pray. It felt like 2 or 3 minutes. I "saw" a "T" intersection. To the right was a beautiful, attractive, easy looking journey. Full of obvious promise, and joy. To the left was what looked like a highway through a barren desert. There was sand, and rock, for as far as the eye could see. The "word" I had for them was, after I'd described what I'd seen,"Take the hard road, that is where God is for you." They said they left the meeting feeling disappointed. Eighteen months later they came back to town to visit family and friends. They sought me out and told me about their attitudes and disappointments the day I prayer for them, but they did so with joy. They said they decided to trust God and took the hard road. As a result, they had "been through the ringer" and had come out the other side strengthened in their faith, having grown closer to God, and having had to immerse themselves in the Word like they never had before. Their walk had changed and they had developed new habits of studying the Word and praying. God uses people to prophecy; however, in my experience it's far less frequently than we might hope, or have been taught.

[@sherrimiller5258]

This is the problem with the charismatic movement. Very few people approach it in your manner. There is almost a contest to see who can display more gifts. People ramble on and on with words from God. The fake healings are rampant. The psychosomatic ones even more so. People are pressured into faking tongues because if they don’t “get it” there’s something wrong with them. I’ve had a very creepy feeling when hearing many people speaking in tongues. I think some are people just forcing sounds to fit in. Some are genuine gifts. Some are demonic. I have never yet been in a church (charismatic) where they obey the Bible concerning the proper use of tongues in church. It would be wonderful to see such a church.

[@citamora]

True. He does. I know he had used me mostly through dream and most of them had happen after years. Weeks. I belief also people who received prophecy need to test it. And those who gives prophecy should wait on the Holy Spirit. I see prophecy as God speaking to you through someone else when you are not listening. I rather tell you to go here God for yourself.

[@charlene5960]

I’m not sure this is an example of prophecy. If this occurred in a therapist’s office, it would be termed advice. Good advice for sure.

[@abelsumanas]

Sadly the Charismatic movement often relies on these rare supranatural occurrences and not the solid truth instead. I rmb seeing a livestream of a local hypercharismatic church strongly affiliated w Benny/Henry Hinn. In their 1 hour++ praise and worship session it's very obvious they're longing for that "spectacular Holy Spirit anointing" that'd knock them down, made them in a tantrum and stuff. They built the dramatic atmosphere to give the illusion of the "presence of the Holy Spirit". 😥

[@denisemeyer856]

Abel Sumanas n

[@fakestreamedia5309]

We left a “mini bethel” for lack of a better word for many reasons discussed here. The constant fortune telling was just obnoxious on top of the fake healings. It was always something to do with sore shoulders and leg pains or even an energy drink addiction. Never cripples or cancer and zero focus on sin repentance and the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ reconciling us to God by Grace through faith in His work on the cross.. the debt has been paid through His substitutionary death. Great interview wonderful to see

[@jpsphoto-vision8803]

Sometimes there is true healing done though so be careful not to doubt all. My mother in law was healed from a car accident that she had suffered from for years. It was her first time at that church and he was helping 3 people. My Mother in law was praying in the audience and she told God that if she was supposed to be healed let the preacher speak and call her up by her exact words that she prayed (her symptoms and what she was hurting with in that moment as well as her praying) and word for word he repeated it so she went up there and was healed from head to toe for 17 years until she got into another wreck which she still suffers from. God can heal through people however, you have to be careful because many are false teachers and lie about healing for financial gain.

[@nataliecatterall5942]

I was deaf in my right ear, completely (not just blurred) and after weeks of ignoring the altar calls for prayer, I ended up going to lunch and I asked my Pastor friend to speak up as I couldn’t hear. He gave me a little lecture on ignoring the calls for prayer and prayed over me in the RSL after lunch. Half hour after he prayed, when I was at home it was like a click of the fingers (sounded kind of like a pop) and I had better hearing in my deaf ear than that of my good ear. I could hear cars go past as I drove my car and had to keep checking for open windows. God still heals today. 🤗

[@fakestreamedia5309]

I do believe that healing stew happen and praise God for yours. But the Todd white leg pulling et all needs to be called out for what it is. Fortune telling is a whole other story, it’s the constant obsession with miracles and wonders and lack of biblical knowledge and gospel that I got tired of.

[@takingupmycross9869]

Prophecy should NEVER just be taken and believed without weighing it, judging it, and rolling it back on God. Paul instructed us to do so. We have to be careful not to demonize prophecy and cause people to be afraid of it. Paul said it's the greatest gift because it builds up and encourages the whole body. Scripture tells us prophecy shouldn't be despised. Let's no throw the baby out with the bath water. Rather, let's get better at weighing and judging prophecy before we just naively believe everything someone speaks as a word from God. Let's continue growing in our faith and into the stature of Christ.

[@citamora]

Amen. That the same thing goes for someone who prophecy as well. It's a learning journey. You both need to know your Bible.

[@jnr039]

One of the best comments

[@kayapple1204]

Was going to say all this but didn't have to because you did. Thank you. I've had many encouraging and spot on words and have also had God use me to greatly encourage others. Test and discern but don't despise.

[@sla1xyz]

Even though I agree with you. Not all new Christians know that. It can be dangerous, some people stop taking their medication, take unnecessary risk and plan their lives around a "word". It can be a really damaging and traumatic experience.

[@takingupmycross9869]

@@sla1xyz You're absolutely right. Everything I shared is found in the word of God and not knowing the word can be very dangerous. I'm glad you recognize that. God bless you.

[@indoernst]

Thank you for bringing up this issue in the church. A lot of Christians in this movement push themselves to do something or want something more “spiritual” so that they can feel more spiritual or feel closer to God.

[@inTruthbyGrace]

@RJCWA13 "To want to feel closer to God is not the correct motivation"

[@lauraowen8142]

PRIDE is at the core of it. We ALL are suseptible to that!

[@lauraowen8142]

Kathy Bates played "The Unsinkable Molly Brown" in Titanic🙂

[@inTruthbyGrace]

@RJCWA13 if the word of God is so "powerful" and important to you then do NOT ARGUE VERBATIM against it! "To want to feel closer to God is not the correct motivation""

[@Hellogoodbye..]

I think Jesus said it best “worship in spirit and in truth”

[@sophiamonroe5828]

Yesssss! When I saw Paul and Morgan’s video on leaving the hyper charismatic church, I thought “they should talk to Melissa Dougherty,” and, low and behold, you had already commented!

[@PaulandMorgan]

😄❤️

[@mck4507]

Your experience in the hyper-charismatic church is so similar to mine! My husband and I moved to a new city and joined a new church, but had not been exposed to the charismatic movement before. We spent two years super involved, before a wake-up call caused us to pay attention to some red flags. We noticed there was a constant seeking of spiritual experiences, and anything supernatural that seemed to take place was attributed to the Holy Spirit, but realized that we NEVER see the Holy Spirit work that way, in scripture (except, maybe, in the initial Pentecost). After that realization, all the not-quite-biblical practices and sayings started jumping out at us, whether it was a "word" that didn't align with scripture, the encouraging of the congregation to speak in tongues, women regularly preaching (and being consistently completely wrong in their biblical interpretations), offering classes for how to hear God's voice and become a prophet, and still, attributing physical "stirrings" in the air of the building to the Holy Spirit. We finally left when a friend got up, gave a "word" that was not scriptural, came off the stage, and fell on his face like he was possessed (again, attributed to the working of the Holy Spirit). We were scared and shaken up. The craziest part was, we left suddenly and without explanation after two years of being super involved and building some wonderful relationships, and not a single person reached out to me, ever!

[@elizabethann8228]

This really saddens me to hear your testimony of being in that church. I was in a Charismatic church for a very short amount of time years ago ( only a few months, thankfully) and when I looked into possibly joining the church, I was told I had to meet certain criteria. One was, that I needed to try to speak in tongues ( red flag number one ) and the second and worst one, was that I needed to sign an agreement to agree with the Pastor at all times. 😳 I felt sickened by this and still feel heartsick for all the people who get caught up in this movement. I had been a Christian long enough to know that we live by the Word of God and not man! Run 🏃🏻 people, if you hear of these things! Oh, BTW, about 6 months later the pastor of that church ended up in prison for sexually abusing his own child. It was caught on tape. And made news headlines. I was so sad for the people of that church who trusted him. And still sad for the deceived.

[@monabrown101]

This was me too, and I'm from London, UK 😮😢

[@victoriabeard-fitzpatrick7087]

Thank you for this! I just recently came out of the hyper Charismatic Movement and this was so comforting. I’ve felt massive depression and confusion and been isolated because I have spent the entirety of my 27 years in this movement and to hear it took them 3 years to really digest and to not go to the other extreme from one extreme was so so helpful. Thank you guys so much for telling the truth and sharing your experiences. Praise Yah 💛

[@briannamoniqueblog]

I think it’s good they left the hyper-charismatic movement, but still open to the gifts of the spirit… seems like they’re on a good path to finding balance.

[@oconyal]

This one really hits home, I almost lost my faith because a church told me I didn't have the baptism of the Holy Spirit and I didn't speak in tongues. It hurt a long time I prayed about it all the time and then I tried to fake it. Thankfully I found some better teachers to help me

[@seekingthekingdomfirst8089]

Sorry to hear about your experience, but praise God that you left. the truth is that speaking tongues is not a sign of having the in dwelling of the Spirit, however speaking in tongue is a gift of the spirit, just like teaching the Bible, and prophesying. Jesus said you should know them by their fruits. If someone has the Holy Spirit they will produce the fruits of the Spirit. Love, joy, self control.. and so on. The Holy Spirit is the best teacher of the Word of God. Because Jesus said: “He the Spirit of truth will teach us” So always pray that Holy Spirit continue to teach you.

[@CurtisLoyd-fe6sz]

There is nothing wrong with you because you did not receive the gift of tongues. How I understand God’s word is that not everyone will receive all the gifts but will receive maybe one or more. Your relationship with God is the best gift you could ever receive along with your love for God. Not everyone speaks in tongues. Just because you don’t speak in tongues doesn’t mean you are not saved or lack faith. We are saved by the blood of Jesus Christ and our faith in Him. I have known many Christians that moved mountains through their faith in God and their deep love for God, and never received the gift in speaking in tongues. Maybe God has given you the gift of discernment or encouragement or maybe patience and the lists are never ending. Remember that the gift of Love is the greatest gift anyone can receive from God. I use to go to a Pentecostal church and I received the gift of speaking in tongues but my family never received the gift of speaking in tongues and the preacher tried to get my family to just make up some sounds. That did not go well with my spirit and God showed me that the preachers was wrong and it was not biblical so I and my family left the church. We now go to an Independent Baptist church. I only use my gift in the privacy of my home when I speak in tongues. I do not put my faith in speaking in tongues I put my faith in Christ Jesus. The blood of Jesus saves us. Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice for us sinners. I am so grateful and thankful to Jesus for saving me with His precious blood. ❤

[@feltonite]

This is a breath of fresh air for me. I've been backslidden for some time, but recently I've been seeking to return to God. I've watched a number of videos lately regarding near death experiences, how people met the light, and how they've been changed, and I wanted something like that. But Morgan's story of how God told her no when she wanted a prophetic word, resonated with me. His scripture is sufficient, and the Holy Spirit must deal with us personally. Thank you for this.

[@somethinggood9267]

God bless you mr. Tom

[@tammyhickman8412]

@Tom Pullen. There is also another YT Channel along with this one that will help you wade thru the mess that is out there...its called the Smart Christian Channel. I am happy for you returning to Christ! Nothing else really has any teeth to it! Its a suggestion for you to explore and process with Gods leading!

[@ryanbrown4053]

Seems to me He uses different things to reach different people. I can say I've had a similar experience to you, where I feel I was told that I'm to trust in the sufficiency of His Word instead of looking to signs to prove Himself to me.

[@stephaniesage7010]

What I have experienced with word of faith movement for the brief time I was in it was that if I didn’t pray hard enough over something to pass than it was my lack of faith. As I began reading the Bible and studying more as a new believer, I asked several questions over this and realized that’s not the Bible talks about in all the stories. I would say as with all new believers be careful who you listen and follow because the enemy will lead you astray from the truth of the Bible! Stay Focus on Jesus and put whole Armor of God each day!

[@Card_Crazed]

My mother in law was severely disabled from Rheumatoid Arthritis, and she was told she would be healed if she prayed hard enough, from several well meaning Christians. It never happened... the pain from those words that she wasn't a good enough Christian to get healed haunted her for the rest of her life.

[@annarocha3254]

Even Jesus prayed for the cup of crucifixion to be taken from him, yet God did not. Did Jesus not pray hard enough?

[@stephaniesage7010]

while we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal. 2 Corinthians 4:18 God doesn't promise to change our circumstance but he will change our heart in the circumstance.

[@jaycarlton2010]

Great video! I too came out of the hyper-Charismatic movement this year and can identify with this couple. It is uncanny that so many "prophets" predicted Trump's victory, yet not a single "prophet" ever foresaw the civil unrest or the global pandemic approaching. From my perspective, these "prophets" build alluring intrigue through a platform of book sales and notoriety, humorous stories, eloquent messages, and current events intended to create personal gain for their audience. No wonder why so many fall prey and become addicted.

[@montemoji]

It makes me feel so much better when Morgan is talking about feeling "seen". I grew up in the pentecostal movement (my dad is a pastor). I remember going to conferences or larger church services, standing there at the altar call, and seeing all these people getting "prophetic words" and feeling left out. I kept thinking maybe I'm not doing something right or maybe I'm not "called" in anything. At the end of the day, the hyper-charismatic movement does feel like this odd exclusive club because they put so much pressure on spiritual gifts.

[@TheScutterbug]

This was a wake up call for me. I can get good teachings but I neglect time in the word and in prayer if not careful. Thank you all.

[@thestraightroad305]

I really think it is all about power. Special power. I was in this situation for 9 years and finally had enough. 20 years later, now channels like yours are confronting this and analyzing properly and scripturally. I still struggle with the suspicion I have for church leadership, or even my own understanding of doctrine/application. Years of relearning and study and still I struggle. The only thing that got me out of the toxic church environment I was in was knowing scripture. Knowing the Bible-the WHOLE COUNSEL of scripture-is essential. No substitutes.

[@overit1343]

I love this interview so much. The way they handled leaving was way better than I myself did lol. It’s hard to leave this movement without feeling broken-hearted and bitter and I think they’ve done a great job at not letting those two things creep in. I especially love the fact that they didn’t leave this movement and start making fun of it or the things that that go on inside of it. I’ve heard a lot of pastors on KZbin belittle and make fun of the people in this movement and mock them for it. All around Paul and Morgan handled this interview with grace.

[@PaulandMorgan]

Really appreciate that🙏

[@merrittascott3323]

Hi, was in a ministry once that left me crying on the way home different times. I remained faithful until I learned I was not obligated by God to remain. When I left, I didn't hold grudges. I began praying for where to attend church. I wanted Jesus, so I wasn't discouraged.

[@lightabounds77]

This is so true! I came out of that movement and it really damaged me and my family. I was looking for videos to post or send to people that are still in it but so many of them I could not use because they are mocking the charismatic movement. Some of these people seem really kind and I wanted to use Steven Kovar‘s/ fighting for the faith etc…videos but when they start mocking them that is not some thing I could send to people that are in the movement.

[@susanzumback7711]

The worst part of charismania for me was all of those prophecies that never came to pass.oh the devastation and confusion.constant deliverances,always about to have breakthrough,it was exhausting and left me restless at the same time.no comparison to the true peace of god ,the simplicity of the cross and gospel,and the contentment His pure word brings.

[@Oilofmercy]

That is true I agree. I left also and swung to the other extreme only to realise i threw the baby out with the bath water. God is a God of miracles and breakthrough and the "other side" have no faith it seems even though they have peace. Reconciliation to God brings peace also healing and many other benefits. Forget not all His benefits. X

[@tommihail2178]

Keep it simple!!! God is sovereign and only He will do what's best for us..

[@timothyhollins6010]

@@tommihail2178 well said. It took me years to realise this.

[@tommihail2178]

@@timothyhollins6010 sometimes we are our worst enemy trying to complicate God's word..As I say "it takes a good theologian to confuse the Bible"..lol

[@johnwade6483]

Thanks Melissa for another great video, at this moment I'm 50 minutes into it. Coming from being Baptist originally, then Pentecostal/Charasmatic, I have come to the conclusion of the need to just be grounded in the Word. Seeing videos of ppl coming out of the Charasmatic movement, and others always attacking Charasmatics, makes one do examination on why, and my thoughts is, to stay in boundaries of scriptures. Even Paul said to "examine all things, hold fast to that which is good."

[@johnwade6483]

Finished watching the rest of the video, thanks again for y'alls gut level honesty.😀

[@johndavison6669]

This video has really hit home for me. As a former catholic/charismatic Pentecostal/ just spiritual I can understand the difficulty and problems. Prophecies and speaking in tongues caused many issues with my faith during my chrismatic period and led me away from christianity for a while. Fortunately God did not give up on me and redeemed me. Charismatic tend to become victim to pride because of the need to display they have the gifts. While the truth is in-between, everything needs to come back to gods word. No one should ever be confident in there understanding and should always work to take a better understanding of the scripture and trust not in their own understanding. I am now pursuing my masters in divinity and focusing on apologetics too. God is good all the time. Thank you again for sharing and God bless...

[@ataxcollector695]

Wow, never met a Spiritual Catholic/Pentecostal before. Just curious, what were some of your beliefs at the time?

[@Kanon-fq5fh]

Charismatics and Catholics are exactly the same with slightly different terminologies ! I camel out of the Charismatic Movement almost 2 years ago!

[@johndavison6669]

@@ataxcollector695 I wasn't both at the same time. I grew up in a catholic family and fell away after some issues I had with the church. While I took a naturalistic approach to most things, I was still missing something spiritually and started exploring many new age concepts. eventually this lead me to the Chrismatic Penticostal church. Utimately I had similiar issues as described in the video with bad prophecies, false speaking in tongues, and regular words from "God" that were not true or acurate which lead me away again. Fortunately God never gave up on me. I kept seeking and finally found Him. That's the very short story :)

[@johndavison6669]

@@Kanon-fq5fh They are definitely different in theology but in some ways they are the same in how the church relates to their members.

[@ssshadowwolf6762]

@@ataxcollector695 I never met one either . I’m a cradle Catholic who still remembers Latin mass and covering my head .. sometimes I think people completely create a “ new “ perception ( if they are being honest )..

[@AnthonyEhrhardt]

Me and my wife tried for 15 years to get pregnant, when we went to a frank viola conference In Germany, A random German woman came to her and said she was pregnant! My wife laughed, but 9 months later,our daughter Aria was born!! Then 10 months after that our son was born. This was 13 years ago!

[@Kanon-fq5fh]

There’s something different to a woman who’s pregnant and some people can tell . Cling to the word of God and you will do well ! Oops , am I am prophesying ? nope , it’s written !

[@swebilbo]

Soooo maybe your wife.... 9 months later... just saying...

[@kimneiswanger5804]

@@frogsmoker714 yeah and the priest of Jesus day said the same thing about Jesus said he was casting out demons by the spirit of Beelzebub. God is the same yesterday today and tomorrow he doesn't change times change but he does not change he still is alive and moving and healing and helping his people and those who are afraid of that help won't receive it from him because you remember Jesus said I could do little in my home town of Galilee because they had little faith!

[@michaelbee2165]

@@kimneiswanger5804 Do not abuse people who are not healed by telling them they do not have enough faith. God sometimes heals us in this life, and sometimes heals us on the other side of eternity. He does not change and He will heal. When that happens is HIS sovereign will and is no reflection on our faith in this earthly life.

[@kimneiswanger5804]

@@michaelbee2165 I don't feel that I have abused anyone by quoting that scripture. I was more addressing the person who called the woman who had a word for the pregnant lady saying it was witchcraft.

[@flyinggirl3121]

Thank you for this! The more I have learned about this movement, the more I've struggled with "hyper judgement". I also don't want to swing that far on the pendulum. Truth in love!

[@sabrinagilmusic]

yes... I struggle with that too! Finding balance is hard, but totally worth it though!

[@Window4503]

“There but for the grace of God go I” comes to mind when struggling with that

[@rachelg2478]

So exciting that you’re now friends with Paul and Morgan! I’ve been following their channel (and yours) for several years now and it’s very interesting to see how all of you have grown in your faith

[@PaulandMorgan]

❤️❤️

[@rachelg2478]

@@PaulandMorgan ❤️❤️

[@intentionallyinpired]

There are extremes everywhere. You can get extreme charismatic or people like wretched who believes the Holy Spirit doesn’t speak to people today. Sometimes we hyper expose others constantly but we don’t recognize where our extremes are .. God have mercy on all of us xoxoxo

[@gaylea4207]

I got saved at 27 yrs old. I'm 62 now. But I began to be exposed to some of this even back then. I've come to see people were putting more faith in their faith than in God. Some actually left because they didn't think they had enough faith. Anytime I bumped against that belief system, I always thought I was missing something. I used to think, "maybe I'm not as close to God as they are" or "maybe something's wrong with me". Until an elderly lady prophesied over me once way back then. She said I would be successful! I left that meeting telling my friend, "I can't even hold down a job". She replied, "maybe she meant successful in the Lord". And that's what I've always held on to. Almost my whole family is born again today. "Faith as small as a mustard seed." But where will you put that faith? In your faith? Or in the Lord Jesus Christ? JESUS! Come fellowship with us the next time you're in New Orleans... Lakeview Christian Center! Thank you!

[@irenechola1780]

In my country we have the same thing happening. A lot of prophetic utterances... but when they don't come to pass (which is most of the time) you are made to feel as though you did something to make it not come to pass. You didn't receive it, you didn't believe it enough.... you failed to birth it and bring it forth. With that, no one is held accountable to their prophetic words.

[@tommihail2178]

Exactly!! They're just self fullfilling "prophecies""..It's time to bring back stoning😅

[@AhaiziahP]

Thanks for this Melissa. This was just in time, just yesterday I felt outside of the 'realm' of the supernatural with people having all the gifts of tongues and so on. I read Corinthians and I saw Paul saying that tongues if there's no interpreter should be done quietly and it bothers me during worship that my fellow believers do this. This video helped me to know how to pray and approach it with my friends at church. I get to pray and ask God how to approach this with humility and love knowing that I came out of it❤️

[@michellephilip5257]

Hii ..I understand this because I've thought the same way before.. sometimes you really need to understand the context of the scripture ..here's a video on it kzbin.info/www/bejne/n3OcXpaQfbppqLM

[@richardbogenholm5195]

I have been a Christ follower since May of 1975. Been active in the faith since then. I have also done studying on both sides of this issue. Served with The Billy Graham Ministry and the 700 Club. I have evolved to call myself a “Charismatic” One of my mentors was Dr Walter Martin who wrote “Kingdom of the Cults: He was a Hebrew and Greek scholar. Many years ago Dr Martin stated that tongues are displayed three ways 1) Your private prayer language. 2) A message in public that MUST be interpreted 3) A person opens his/her mouth and speakers in a language that they don’t understand BUT the person that hears it does. Example, saying something in Russian. The debate rages on and on. Bottom line to me…Keep Jesus Lord of your life, read God’s word daily, stay HUMBLE and have a strong prayer life. I got sucked up in these prophets calling a Trump win, and it didn’t happen. ALWAYS keep your eyes on Jesus.

[@augiemusky]

When the worship leader begins to “speak in tongues” but makes sure to use the microphone so all can listen to their UNTRANSLATED gibberish…

[@nancyboyette3748]

@@richardbogenholm5195 Good explanation and also respect both ministries and remember Walter Martin’s balanced teaching on speaking in tongues.

[@shadowprovesunshine]

@@richardbogenholm5195 Wow i remember that book! What an amazing mentor to have.

[@eeg122]

Excellent interview with this lovely couple. Praise the Lord.

[@coreygood796]

This is an invaluable interview. I'm saving this video in one of my playlists so I can use this as a reference video for my Charismatic/Apostolic/Pentecostal/NAR friends so they can at least see where I'm coming from and why I don't feel guilty about leaving the hyper-charismatic lifestyle. In my real life circles, it feels like my wife and I are the only ones who came out of this, which can leave one feeling alone without any "back-up" but it's encouraging to see people out there (especially young married couples like myself) who are also coming out of this superficialality/sensationalism and into a new found reverance and understanding for God's word as well finding true rest in our Lord. God bless 🙌

[@heartstrings110]

I have had so many detailed prophetic words spoken over me that have come to pass with accuracy that I feel like my experience had been exceptional. I have been blessed to be around mature prophets. And studying the scripture was really emphasized in my upbringing, . By the way, I really enjoyed this conversation. LOVED the balance in the discussion. Great job,

[@loveafrica97]

Yes, same! Agreed I’ve seen prophetic words come to pass for myself and with others. I am in a more reformed baptist church now, but I absolutely believe in the validity of the prophetic, visions etc.

[@tkoghdn]

I’ve had the same experience. Many many times.

[@amyecorbin]

Haven't watched the video yet but am looking forward to it later. I used to watch Paul & Morgan until I realized they were in the charismatic movement and I cut ties. Happy to hear they're leaving it!

[@markmoore8399]

Yeah, I almost unsubscribed in the days of them not calling Bethel, Hillsong, etc., false teachers, but I did not because I realized that they were at least willing to have the discussion depsite disagreeing with the pushback. I am glad that I stuck with them knowing that they have been convicted of this stuff.

[@oraskat]

I'm on a similar journey. Definitely considering myself charismatic, but laying down the neediness for experience, diving deep into the Scripture, discovering the treasure that it is competely anew...I've been praying the same prayer: "Lord, let me not forsake the truth in swinging on the pendulum, just because the truth was stretched and misused...thank you for putting out the video. I pray for ya'll also, that yoi'd not see the Scripture with a bias because of experiences of how it can be done wrong...blessings

[@ZUGTFO]

Love this, very edifying and glad to see these two on a walk with the lord, I know this pain, for 20 years I thought I was UNWORTHY to go to a church because I had fallen, but in th elast 10 years of learning THE WORD, boy was I wrong. ;)

[@vickieswartout9175]

Sooo good to have this video, Melissa! Thank you!❤

[@jaquirox6579]

I put this on the living room TV to listen to, because I needed to not comment before I listened wholly. As someone who has been out of this, and New Age for years now…. I’m still just so cagey when I hear people talk this way. I’m glad they have come out, and I pray that more Truth be illuminated to them every day. More truth and sanctification. Thank you for sharing this interview, even tho I require a cage right now. Hahaa we have to discuss this more, and this is the only way. 🙏🏽♥️🙏🏽

[@tb9359]

Amen!! Thank you, all 3 of you, for this video!!!

[@dougmichalak5687]

Thank you, Melissa, Paul, and Morgan! This is the kind of thing it's going to take to bring balance to this set of theological beliefs. I grew up in the discipleship wing of the Charismatic Movement, and I remember as a young boy when the Charismatic Renewal broke out in the late 70's to early 80's. I can attest to the fact that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are real, and I have had many, many authentic encounters with God speaking to me-and using me and others around me in supernatural encounters throughout my life. So I am far from being a cessationist when I say that the root of the problem with Charismatic teaching today is threefold: 1. They have a poor framework for studying, understanding, and applying the Scriptures in context as a foundation for their beliefs. Rather than allowing the Scriptures to create the boundaries which test the validity of their experiences, they are allowing their subjective experiences to bend their understanding of the Scriptures. 2. They are confusing emotionalism with the presence and activity of the Holy Spirit. You guys are very kind, but let's just be clear-and I can say this because I have lived most of my life in the Charismatic movement, and still believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit-a LOT of people are simply making stuff up. They are so driven to experience the supernatural that they cannot fathom the idea that God might not want to work that way. And when He doesn't, they feel like they need to make something happen, and the quickest way to do that is by employing theatrics to emotionally manipulate the situation, and then by calling these simulated experiences the move of the Holy Spirit. This kind of fakery can only lead to damage the witness of the true Gospel, and it needs to stop. It is one thing to express oneself with great emotional passion using music in worship-and I'm certainly not opposed to this; we see this in the Tanakh (the 'Old Testament') with David. It is completely another thing to use emotionalism as a brainwashing tool to fool someone into believing they are having a supernatural encounter with God for the purpose of propping up one's own reputation. 3. Their measure of 'success' is a supernatural encounter. This runs contrary to the biblical Great Commission to make disciples of all nations. Even those on the 'better' end of the spectrum-those who are using 'power evangelism'-using healing and miracles for the purpose of evangelizing the lost, are not understanding that the evidence of the Holy Spirit's activity in a person's life is the fruit of the Holy Spirit, not the gifts. Our goal is to have our lives transformed by the Holy Spirit from the nature of self-worship to the nature of God-worship through our covenant with YHWH in Jesus the Messiah, embodying His character qualities increasingly through the process of sanctification. That is the visible power of the Gospel. Certainly, miracles and supernatural experiences are used by the LORD in this venture, but it is at His discretion, His direction, and His empowerment, for His purposes. There is nothing about any of this that is initiated by us. If it is, it is not authentic; and in fact, as you have often pointed out through examples like Bethel's The Physics of Heaven, is a form of witchcraft when it is self-driven. That's what witches do: they attempt to wrestle supernatural forces under their control for the purpose of personal gain. I've made a video of my own regarding this, if anyone is interested: kzbin.info/www/bejne/o5CpeISGn5uCl5o Thanks again, and I appreciate your perspective and your work.

[@yourstruly9448]

Great Interview Melissa! Paul and Morgan, so much of your experience and what you described I can relate to. My heart hurts for those of us who have been duped and disillusioned by this cultist movement. I'm in the 6th year after leaving a moderately hyper charismatic group. I have had to repent of behaving and believing as if Jesus is not enough. God has brought much spiritual healing, and reestablished a biblical truthful mindset in me. I am so thankful and grateful that God pursues us no matter where we are! Thanks again for sharing your story!

[@owensterry29]

I had a friend who was professional wrestler back in the 70's. He became a charismatic preacher for pretty much the rest of his life. For years I would ask him for his opinions on Wicca and he always said that it was nothing but satanism with a different face. I was always fascinated with the occult and I was heavily involved with the Golden Dawn system of ceremonial majick for over 10 years. My friend repented from his involvement with the charismatic/word of faith cult and about 8 years ago I repented from my involvement and obsession with the occult. One of the biggest problems I had with Christianity was the whole word of faith circus.I was asked if I wanted to be Baptized in the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands.Two women laid their hands on me and began praying in tongues. I knew right away that it wasn't the Holy Spirit, but Tantric Kundalini yoga.I never set foot in any charismatic churches again. When I first began my intense study of the Bible and the New Testament in particular I found that many things that I heard being taught as biblical fact are things that aren't clearly laid out in the word of God. The real paradigm shift for me was finding a guy named David Nikeo Wilcoxon who pointed me to some of the best preachers who've ever lived namely: Henry Gratten Guinness E.B.Elliott Ralph Woodrow Charles Haddon Spurgeon David Vaughn Elliott Steve Wohlberg All I can say is that it's been an amazing journey, but I've lost a lot of friends over my research on many topics and doctrines.

[@joycecantere1470]

the lost that you have could never compare to the hope you have gain, eternal salvation in Jesus!

[@Cotswoldblonde]

What an incredible spiritual journey you have had. You would be a fascinating interview/ testimony to hear. So happy you have found the true Gospel. God bless you.

[@lodwill4007]

Wrong. You must see steave Atwood n Ron knight n Richard Jordan n Jim devney n Lesfeldick ministries explains church mixes. N see Robert breaker

[@Selahwiththesavior]

How could you tell the difference in the tongues?

[@LennyCash777]

@@Selahwiththesavior Speaking in tongues is supposed to be intelligible to the people hearing it, not a bunch of gibberish nobody understands. When this first occurred with the Apostles on the Day of Pentecost, everyone standing around listening to them was able to understand them in their own languages. That's the major difference.

[@hcwally]

I had a small group host in college that started nearly everything she said to disagree with us with "the Lord told me" ... It drove me crazy because a lot of times it contradicted with something in Scripture, and it is a conversation killer. To disagree after that claim you have to either call them crazy or a liar. As believers, we should always be open to rigorous study of the Scripture to seek out God's truth, and when anyone says "well the Lord told me" it halts any productive study with that person.

[@richardbogenholm5195]

Heidi. I’d call that host confused. 1 John 4:1 covers testing EVERY spirit and many false prophets. I have been a spirit filled believer for over 45 years and I have seen many many claims that have not come true. What I do, I go to scripture, pray and then wait, observe. The Billy Graham Evangelical Association told us back in 1980 is to simply focus on the cross first, major on the majors and minor on the minors. I marvel on how many believers attack each other all the time and will pass up opportunity after opportunity to share the gospel and mentor younger believers in the faith. Have a BLESSED Christmas. In His service.

[@LloydsofRochester]

To people who have said things like that to me, it has not been uncommon for me to politely, but repeatedly, reply: "But the Bible says...!"

[@hcwally]

@@LloydsofRochester absolutely. I was the leader of the small group and she, as the adult host, was repeatedly saying things that weren't biblical to me and other girls in my group. After things got really bad I ended up having a meeting with her and one of our ministers. She continued to condescendingly misquote scripture at me in the meeting and say the Lord told her to say it to me. She said some very hurtful things about me and insinuated I wasn't saved because I didn't gleefully accept her critiques (since I was testing them against Scripture). Afterward the minister told me that I handled it gracefully and that the woman would be removed from her volunteer position in that ministry and the marriage ministry. It was a really rough time, but I also saw how the Spirit used that to grow my ability to show grace under pressure because that certainly isn't my natural inclination. I'm just so thankful that I had a strong enough foundation in the Word to not let her fully tear me down and that I eventually found the strength to respectfully stand up to her. I was also encouraged by the response from the ministry and church leadership when the issues came to light.

[@shereewolfe5337]

Remember though that sometimes when someone says, “The Lord told me”, they might be referring to scripture itself. He does speak to every believer through His written Word. I know I’ve done that but was referring to something I had just studied.

[@lenafooks4776]

This is the reality we were confronted with in our spirit 30+ years ago. It was the same false spirit back then.. the devil is a liar and God is always faithful to His word!! God’s word over man’s word always!!

[@shadowprovesunshine]

Amen! "Let God be true and every man a liar"

[@elizabethmoe1189]

My mom and one of our sons attended Bethel’s School of Supernatural Ministry for almost three years, about twenty years ago. My husband and I were troubled to hear the students were required to make at least three mistakes “learning” to prophesy, or they would not be allowed to graduate from their school. Bill Johnson said some unusual things, such as, “There is truth, and then there is truth that is more true.” Seemed oddly mysterious and confusing. About three years ago I began using a Bible memory app to help in memorizing scripture by chapters (in context!) Thank you for doing this kind, helpful interview.

[@MaccaBased]

When I was Word of Faith, we had a "hit-list" of favourite scriptures we would declare. I don't recall being encouraged or taught to search for context, ever. I have heard thousands and thousands of sermons based on a portion of scripture plucked from the middle of a passage and interpreted to fit the chosen theme of the message. Two examples of that which drives me nuts is Luke 6: 38 and Malachi 3: 8-12. As a Pentecostal pastor, I preach the Word very differently now.

[@dmdb6696]

So happy to view this video, love this couple. When people say, "God told me" I ask them if they are willing to write that down as canon in the Bible. That phrase is nothing more than saying, "Thus says the Lord." God has spoke to us in the past through the prophets and in these last days through His Son Jesus Christ. Stay in the Word, both eyes on Christ and walk away from the false teachers and wolves false prophesying and hyper-spiritual deception.

[@mathieuguillet4036]

Indeed. Our world currently suffers gravely from many false prophets and charlatans who serve Satan, whether wittingly or not.

[@johnsmit5999]

I am so glad Paul and Morgan are still following Jesus after such struggles. I can see why people prefer to get a "word from the Lord" rather than going just based on the Bible because rejection for the gospel's sake is hard.

[@alicejump2290]

As someone who embraced these movements, and the lord led out of them, I fully appreciate this opportunity to reflect on the issues! Blessed and safe days!

[@melissajessberger5997]

This interview was so good! Thank you Melissa & Paul/Morgan for doing this! I have been on a similar journey having grown up in the hyper-charismatic movement & then leaving it after watching American Gospel. I remember not being able to speak in tongues or never having heard God audibly. Growing up there were times I was afraid I wasn’t saved or didn’t have the Holy Spirit’s power in me. This thinking can be so damaging & it lead to me being lead by my emotions & not grounded in God’s Word. I especially liked how Paul mentioned being wise to not swing to the other camp automatically. It’s easy when you’re hurt by a theology to swing to the other side.

[@alexbetis-l3m]

so glad I watched this, Paula and Morgan just got me on board ....God bless Mel

[@sarahedens468]

This was much needed today. Im in the same place in my Christian walk as they are, coming out of the hyper charismatic and asking all of these same questions. This video and many of yours are encouraging. Thank you for videos like these Melissa! ❤️

[@merrittascott3323]

When God opens eyes to see the deceptions, it is so beautiful. God does know us individually.

[@davidschefter4160]

Praying for you Sarah.

[@timg2088]

That's awesome, Sarah! I've been there! I would just encourage you to keep asking questions and keep pursuing Christ! One thing that has really helped me is listening to Justin Peters videos on KZbin. He has some great videos that really get into the hyper charismatic church and how a lot of it is unbiblical. (Like prophesying, making trips to Heaven...) I can't recommend Justin Peters enough. He tackles the issue in a common sense, very loving, kind of way. Using the Bible as his guide, and nothing else. He calls out those who CONSISTENTLY prophesy, but prophesy falsely. He calls out those who do these fake "leg lengthening" miracles, but never mention the Gospel. Good stuff! I'll definitely be praying for you, as I've been in your shoes. God bless!

[@cobymcgee9459]

I'm so glad to hear other people have this conversation that I've been having with myself for so long now. So many people "prophesy' through their own emotions instead of through the Holy Spirit. I call it wish-craft, because they just say what they think the other person wants to hear. I try to avoid giving 'personal prophesies' to anyone that is not pure scripture.

[@dubyag4124]

This is an excellent interview - my brother and sister in law were charismatic worship leaders and they have largely deconstructed. I respect this young couple so much and that they watched the AG movie a 2nd time but this was an amazing example how the modern seeker sensitive church (I'm not even bashing charismatics, its pretty much the standard church model) it shows how church goers are being inoculated against the gospel - they literally cannot hear it because its too offensive - we don't attract people to church with the gospel, but pretty much whatever tickles their ear.

[@cat-bg3rv]

Yes. 2 Timothy 4:3. I had questioned a relative about the false prophets. She said that they always get those false peophet verses and that there are about 4 of them that she senses that are right on. How are they right on, I don't know. 😔

[@Kanon-fq5fh]

I came out of the Charismatic Movement and I can assure that the movement as a whole is completely , 100 % false !

[@hawkcobo]

Your Mind Control assessment was right on. The people out there “deconstructing” are simply shifting alters, they are still being controlled, they just got more comfortable chains. There needs to be more of a deprograming and awareness of mans ability of manipulation and our inability to be objective when only our emotions are being stimulated. I appreciate how these two are approaching this difficult scenario. I will be following their journey.

[@Clarabelleist]

There is! … it’s called the Bible!

[@hawkcobo]

@@Clarabelleist yes, The Bible is the best tool for deprogramming but also a tool used by the enemy for programming. Satan twisted God’s words to manipulate Adam and Eve. We need to help people discern deception and be aware of their options. Adam and Eve were not forced to eat the fruit. They had choices, they could have gone to God to get clarity on what he meant by surely die. The hard part is knowing that we may have choose to participate in our own deception. For me I had the Bible, I had prayer, I had all sort of options for me to ask my questions but I chose to keep quite and just let the “experts” in the pulpit tell me who I was. But even now we have these new versions of the Bible with commentary by “experts” that slant the scriptures to justify their own interpretation. It’s sad that with all the resources available to us, that clarity about the scriptures is still so difficult. It makes sense though, as that was Satan’s plan from the start.

[@watchgate]

I'm glad. I left the charismatic movement that I was saved into after 6 years. That's 2 years ago. Thank you for all you do Melissa

[@JebehKawah]

I love Paul's "Ah, yes please" at 10:10. This is so helpful for those of us not hyper-charismatic but yet not denying the power of God even today - however that looks.

[@judymapelkerchman2223]

Thank you for this very important message and video! I walked away from God because I saw many things the Holy Spirit showed me were wrong. I felt so alone, confused and afraid. This is a message so many need to hear to know they aren’t alone in seeing the dangers of this movement. I’m so thankful God didn’t give up on me after I gave up on Him. PRAYING for those that have walked away from God and been damaged by this dangerous movement and PRAYING for our Brothers and Sisters that are still in this False Movement 🙏🙏🙏

[@BB.halo_heir]

The saying "the road to hell is paved with good intentions", seems like it fits in this conversation. There are many in the hyper charismatic church that believe in it, but there are far more that know it's fake. Especially the ones leading it.

[@inTruthbyGrace]

"There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death." (Proverbs 14:12 16:24)

[@theencouragingwordministry]

Hi Melissa, Paul, and Morgan 😀 I came out of New age and was super drawn to witchcraft and the occult for 12 plus years. I became born again 11 years ago at 31 years old, but it was through much warfare I entered the kingdom of God. Many times I watch you and Doreen's videos and I get feed spiritually and I can appreciate your points of view. I too feel passionately about correct theology and biblical doctrine because of my past. About 6 years ago, I was hungry to learn more about who the Holy Spirit is and had not felt like the church I was attending spoke much of him or recognized him at all. The Holy Spirit took me on a journey and started revealing himself to me through scripture, experience, and His body. Sometimes I hear people say that we shouldn't seek out or rely on our supernatural experiences with God and although I agree with that to a degree, I feel that our walk with the Lord should be well balanced in His word and truth plus Holy Spirit moving and active in our lives by experiencing Him.. after all Holy Spirit is a person and our salvation itself is a miracle & supernatural!! I agree that there are misguided and abusive teachings of Holy Spirit, His gifts, and the how believers are to practice those gifts in the church. Yes, many hyper charismatic churches and circles go way outside of what scripture teaches on Holy Spirit and His gifts. Prophecy does get overemphasized and there is alot of fake things occurring. I agree with much of what you say, but I do believe that we should give room for Holy Spirit to use the body of Christ in the lives of believers and mankind. I am charismatic and believe that the gifts are for today, as much as, the early church. I believe that there are unhealthy camps on both sides teaching in error ..cessation and charismatic, but either way I believe that people in both camps are sincere brothers & sisters in Christ. Usually people believe in the primary foundations of scripture, but differ of the secondary stuff. I believe people, teachers, pastors can be in error and just wrong & yes some are false and wolves in the church. I do think people like myself who came out of false beliefs / religions can be prone to not want to be open to the Holy Spirit, prophesy, and gifts because of the degree of misuse, abuse, and fear of being yet again deceived. Some wanna throw out the " baby with the bath water" and just not be open to charismatic or continuation. I feel very sad about that because I have had Holy Spirit work powerfully in my life in supernatural ways and through scripture..both ways. I believe people in general with their hunger for God and seeking spiritual maturity can be influenced by the pull of the supernatural encounters with God that is demonstrated on Christian TV shows,books, and ect. Mankind always wants to feel special, valued, and seek spiritual encounters without always becoming a spiritually mature Berean of the word of God. If we don't know the word well then we can be tricked by those who knowingly or unknowingly teach false gospels/doctrine. That is why we need to study the word and not get so hung up on chasing after supernatural experiences. I will say that I did have a supernatural experience with Jesus and that did lead me into a saving born again relationship with Him 11 years ago. I have had seasons where the Lord placed people in my path to give me a word of encouragement, prophesy, and pray over me. I have had people have prophetic dreams about me and I have had things/ situations only the lord knew about be spoken to me through his body that encouraged, gave edification, and brought me closer to the Lord. I do believe that old testament office of the prophet is different than the new testament prophetic office in the new covenant in regards to getting it 100% right. I do believe there is a difference between someone being a prophet as an office/title vs someone who has a prophetic gift that Holy Spirit uses for edification within the body of Christ. I believe we see dimly and at times can not see the full picture and perhaps that has to do with spiritual maturity and our flesh. I would definitely not call myself a prophet, yet I have had prophetic words during praying, words of wisdom, discernment of spirits/the demonic, and words of knowledge for others on occasion. It's not something I seek attention with or seek out, but I do make myself available for Holy Spirit should he want to use me. I have recieved confirmation from Holy Spirit via the body of Christ and would consider that to be prophesy too. For example, I felt the Lord leading me to start my own Christian KZbin channel because I love to teach others and have written verse by verse detailed Bible studies in the past,share testimonials, and I love to pray with and for people. I had a few people suggest I start my own channel without me even mentioning that to them. So I know have my own channel lol. I admire you all and gleam from you and where we may differ, I know that these are not major issues that affect my salvation in the Lord. I just allow myself to remain open hearted and to have a teachable spirit and realize I don't know all things and really no one does, but we can always learn from others. Be blessed 🙌 🙏

[@marmeemarch7080]

@@marchosch3876 she didn't claim to belong to the hyper charismatic movement, tho'. . .

[@shadowprovesunshine]

Praise God for your testimony! Sounds like it could be a really encouraging book?! God bless

[@theencouragingwordministry]

@@marchosch3876 Hi Marc. I didn't see your response until now. I'm not sure what more you would of wanted me to say. I can only speak from what I've been exposed to personally and my experiences. You can be charismatic without being hyper. You can believe the Lord does want to heal and prosper you w/o being prosperity gospel. I don't claim a denomination or any type of church title other than Christian who believes in the full meal deal of the gospel. My testimony is long, but God is good and the author of it. Be blessed and merry Christmas

[@theencouragingwordministry]

@@marmeemarch7080 correct. I didn't belong. Merry Christmas

[@theencouragingwordministry]

@@shadowprovesunshine wow thank you lol..I don't have a clue how to write a book, but I have my own channel which has allowed me to share verse by verse Bible studies, prayers, and my personal testimonies like these. Thank you for your encouragement and hope you check out my channel too. Merry Christmas.

[@Maine2020]

@Paul and Morgan my wife and I have been out of the charismatic church for a little over a year now. This video was so good and so many of the same things we have had to relearn from a biblical perspective. It felt like the rug was pulled out from our feet when our eyes were opened to the truth. Praying for y’all and thank you for being so open to share y’all’s experiences!

[@itsjeevan7854]

Thanks for posting amazing contents. Love from India ❤️

[@micahmelodyplays]

I love how Morgan said she felt God tell her "My word is enough" ....when I realized that myslef a couple years back after attending a charismatic church, is when it all made sense. I was relying on experience and a word no thee word. Thanks for this interview all 3 of you.

[@syracuse_]

I'm glad you guys did this video. I too have gone through a similar journey as Paul and Morgan. It's been a painful path and felt like a lot of things that were familiar were dying and feeling like I was doing so much wrong because I was so led by emotions in the past in the word of faith and prosperity gospels.

[@reeyynnaa]

This was great! Thank you Paul and Morgan for sharing your story with us. Melissa I think you did such a great job at leading this conversation/interview. Thanks you guys!

[@PaulandMorgan]

❤️❤️

[@FormerTrucker]

Great questions Melissa. I watch Paul and Morgan and I really like them. Im old fashion in a lot of ways, as far as prophecy goes if you speak for God your right all the time. Trust in the Word of God only its his means of communication to the world today.

[@PaulandMorgan]

😊

[@AmeeraG242]

Just love this i grew up in a charismatic church and fell away from the lord but after I became pregnant with my second baby I came back to God he brought me back home and my eyes were opened to all of this and I had no idea I was in deception I felt something was off for so long it was a big reason I fell away and im so thankful that God opened my eyes to all this ive learned so much in a years time and loving growing in wisdom and love in the lord 🙌🙌💗 let's keep talking about this! Thank you family God Bless You!

[@briannamoniqueblog]

I’m so glad Paul and Morgan got out, I remembered watching a video where they sort of defended Bethel, saying they were strange just not necessarily wrong. I stumbled upon them around the time I was leaving myself and just decided to pray for them. Many others commented they were going to pray for them too. God is good!

[@esoc1100]

Wow I literally asked God a few days ago “ why am I not receiving ground shaking words like most people do, how can I ? What else do I need to do? “ … God really does speak to all of us differently and I’m certain this was his way of speaking to me. This message was very crucial for me , Thankyou so much!!

[@steveoommen6269]

So encouraging and fun to hear this discussion. God bless y’all. Love from Texas.

[@Horaciojonesjr]

As an atheist, I truly enjoy Melissa‘s content. I believe she’s very honest. To watch Paul and Morgan’s transition has been nice to see as well. As an atheist, I agree with the concerns about the charismatic and hyper charismatic movements. I claim to be an atheist, not because I believe God doesn’t exist, but because I’m not sure if whether or not he does or doesn’t. I’ve been in charismatic and hyper charismatic churches, spent the last few years in scripture studies, research after research… The more I study the word, the less I become convinced that God actually exist. But I still keep an open mind just in case God wants to reveal himself in a way that my mind can’t believe. While I’m in this journey, I notice the abuse and harm hyper charismatic has been causing. It’s not the main reason why I’m not Christian, but it’s one of the reasons. Thank you for showing this honest conversation. I don’t know if you three would eventually transition into atheism, maybe these conversations strengthen your belief in God, I’m just happy that these conversations are being had.

[@hopewins1629]

I was an atheist for about 30 seconds in my transition out of mormonism which produces a lot of atheists after they leave that church, namely because of the breaking out of brainwashing that leads to the belief that if the mormon church isn't true than God must not exist. But I couldn't be an atheist because it was God I talked to all the time in my head and had long conversations with and leaned on all the time, so one night I prayed and said " Lord, I still believe in you." And my heart and life literally changed after that because he was my final choice and all I knew at the time was he was bigger than I thought and very kind. Suddenly all systems were go! It's not like anything I expected or could explain. It's been a long weary road but the key is Jesus. Not only who he is but what he did and why.

[@ajahogan9634]

Praying for you 🙏🏽 God is obviously pursuing your heart.

[@niolatabares772]

Thank you for this interview!! I love the honesty and kindness that you all showed. It's important to talk about this uncomfortable topic and shed light on the truth. Praise God.

[@michaelcole2122]

I've had that experience with prophetic words. Most of the words prophesied over me never passed.

[@meanman6992]

You know what I loved about all the Trumps going to win prophecy’s? They outed themselves as false prophets. Biblically there’s a simple test and they failed fantastically.

[@alexs7671]

Amen.

[@Lilc97Jax]

The sad and scary part is that if he runs again and wins 2024, they’ll just say they interpreted the delay wrong, but were ultimately right.

[@republicanrule]

I think he did win. The election was stolen.

[@brychristian3395]

@@republicanrule Then why could the Supreme Court (including justices appointed by Trump himself) find no evidence to support those allegations? Zero, nothing. It’s time to move on.

[@ssshadowwolf6762]

@@republicanrule you “ think “ ? Then you make a flat out statement? Uh no ..

[@annettashannon8077]

"What's more than Jesus? Nothing!" Amen, Morgan.

[@thepsalmsman]

Only a handful of times have I shared a word from God with someone...I like what these two said about keeping a right perspective, a humility about it. I have only done so when it is something for sure from God, and not from me, and was for the edification of those I delivered it to. It's both terrifying and beautiful. Most of the time, there is a dual aspect of a call to repentance and a blessing for walking in that. Other times it is a word of encouragement to someone when they need it. No matter what though, it's not about me at all. Sometimes it's a guidance in prayer. But like these two share, you have to keep emotions out of it. God is holy and no one should presume to speak for Him... however, all who are the children of God are led by the Spirit of God. I remember Keith Green and how he sang and did according to God's leading, and many people were saved, and encouraged, and called to repentance. People get off track when they become presumptuous and self centered.

[@irenep2001]

Such a beautiful interview. Well done!!!!

[@stevenpaz8838]

I loved this video. I consider myself charismatic and a Bible teacher for the past five years. Spirit and truth amen. I’ve often found it disheartening when charismatics are lumped in with the extreme end.

[@ledafeaster2000]

Melissa... You are asking all the right questions. I just love you! Morgan and Paul... thank you for sharing your story! I'm subscribing now to your channel.

[@tommihail2178]

If I had a dollar for everytime someone said "The Lord told me"" I'd be a multi millionaire..

[@LadyB777]

25 years ago when I was a teenager I was within this hyper charismatic movement and I can so relate to everything those 2 had to say. Thank you for this fantastic interview.

[@therory6888]

Thank you for this episode Melissa. This is a message that so desperately needs to get out to people. God bless you.

[@christincommon5496]

Melissa, I love the respectful way you interview guests. Keep up the great work! It is appreciated by many of us.

[@emilyrose9576]

Love this collab! I’ve been watching both channels for a while and am so glad to see Paul, Morgan, and Melissa having a conversation. Thank you for getting this message out there! I love what you are doing an am so thankful for these videos!

[@PaulandMorgan]

❤️😊

[@michelleanderson7828]

How amazing to see these two! I found their channel a couple years ago, and some of the things they would say just would make me pause. I had stopped following their channel...more so due to generational differences, but a small part due to some of the "iffy" things they'd say when they would speak about faith matters. How amazing to see the growth in these two now! God really draws his children closer to Him!

[@Euzelianpiglet11]

Love this! I have watched Paul and Morgan for years! I didn’t always agree with some things they believed but still loved their content! 💗 They are a blessing on KZbin! Great video Melissa! 💗

[@SueHerr]

Paula and Morgan and Melissa Dougherty all in one video?! Whaaaaat? Lol. What a great interview this was! I love the "twitter-pated" analogy you use Melissa. There were seasons in my twenties that I surrounded myself with charismatic/hyper-charismatic circles. It was almost as if there was some sort of shame or not "being enough" if you weren't getting bubbly feelings all the time with the Lord. I remember days crying out and praying for feelings or signs and not getting anything. I also felt like people would use this "twitter-pated" feeling to come across as others as a 2.0 Christian or something. It warped the way I saw the Lord, my life, and just every day troubles in general. Christ never left me though, and I never left him. I always knew he was always faithful and by my side.

[@raisingpraise]

This was a great conversation. I feel like my husband and I have a lot of similarities to these two in our own experiences.. I felt like they were telling a lot of our story. This us such an important conversation to have and the grace extended is a must for those in these movements still. Thank you for this all!

[@debbiedean3165]

Thank you for this lovely, open conversation. I’ll check out Paul and Morgan.