Why This Town Confronted Suburbia's Debt Trap

[@strongtowns]

Hi Everyone! It’s Rachel. You may recognize me from our Shorts and, now, I’m excited to share that I will be making more appearances in our long form videos as well! Myself along with some of our friends at Strong Towns are working hard to bring you more stories and different perspectives and if you want to join in on the fun, you can. Make a pitch! Now let’s all give Maumee a round of applause for their win and continued efforts to make their town solvent and more resilient!

[@jurebb]

fantastic vid! everything was laid out in simple terms. glad to hear you'll be making more long form videos

[@MovingToToledo]

Are you familiar with what is really going on in Maumee Oh? Have you spoken with local citizens ?

[@n.e.7647]

@@MovingToToledo I'm curious. Tell us more.

[@MovingToToledo]

@@n.e.7647 I wrote you a lengthy response however it appears it was deleted…

[@MaumeeSewer]

@@jurebb @n.e7647 Since someone else's reply was deleted, I will repost what I posted below. It will be interesting to see if this is deleted too. First, there was no suburban debt - the city did not have a deficit until covid and actually had a surplus of $700k in 2018. The new big debt is a result of two things; at least $20 million from a bond taken out for beautification projects and the now impeding issues to satisfy the EPA after having lied to them for nearly 30 years. The first ordinance they passed to address the sewer issues required mandatory point-of-sale inspections that required not just repairs or remediation of clean water connections that caused inflow and infiltration but also the replacement of any clay sewer laterals or footer tiles, regardless of the condition they were in. This caused sellers to face repair bills of anywhere from $25k to 40k, with at least one being close to 100k. For reference, the average median income of the city is $79k. People were outraged by the costs - especially since much of the repairs were unnecessary. The citizens organized a meeting to discuss the issue and agreed that this is a community issue that all citizens should solve collaboratively. The group was literally begging for everyone to share the burden to not bankrupt homeowners one at a time. Time again, they were told no, that it was the individual property owner's responsibility, and that "you wouldn't pay for your neighbor's repairs," even though that's exactly what they were asking to do. Citizens organized an initiative to repeal the ordinance with only 24 hours to get the signatures in time. They were able to get nearly three times the needed amount with several hours to spare. The city then repealed the ordinance. They held the round tables and told everyone that they had applied for grants but were turned down; but citizens actually followed up with the EPA to confirm. The Ohio EPA said the city had nominated for funds, but after 3 years of no follow-up from the city, they closed the application since the city never followed through. Then, the citizens were told that it was not possible to use public funds on private property, and that's why the city could not help provide assistance even if they got the grants or if citizens paid into a collective fund. By that point, the citizens had formally created their own committee and spent weeks researching legal cases, other Ohio communities that used public funds for private sewer repairs, and as many government grants as possible that could be used and were even advertised to be used in this way. The committee sent a 24-page report with sources condensing all of the information to everyone in the city administration and city government. It was ignored by all. Last month the city presented a plan that was almost exactly what the committee had asked for, but said they still have to get a higher government legal authority for the private property piece. That's where we are today. Additionally, the uproar over beautification and economic development isn't because citizens are resistant to change; it's because of the feeling that citizens are being left behind or uncared for. For example, the city recently started a business façade grant program that gives businesses up to $60,000 to update or repair the fronts of their buildings. At the same time, they recently told citizens that the city would no longer pay for city refuse collection and that everyone would have to arrange their own trash pickup next year. The funds used for the façade grant come from the same fund that pays for trash and is mostly funded by income tax. When citizens pointed out that seems unfair because they pay taxes too, the city told them that citizens don't pay as much as businesses, so they really shouldn't complain about it since they don't contribute as much. The businesses receiving these funds have no specific threshold to meet to receive these grants other than a nebulous "adds a job" and promises to stay for 5 years. Both the most recent businesses have very few part-time employees, so it will not be the economic boost it should be. All of the improvements are only to attract new businesses and new higher-income residents. While that's not a bad thing, city parks flood, have broken or old equipment, and are generally neglected. The city's website doesn't even have a list of the parks in the city. The city took out a 24 million dollar bond in 2021 after the discovery of the sewer issues and many of the studies; 19 million of it was allocated to the uptown streetscape and other road beautification. The road diet they were talking about, where cars "whizzed down the street at 50 miles per hour?" No - that street has always only had a 35 or 25 mph speed limit and is one of only 3 non-highway bridges crossing the river in the entire county. So, really, there is a lot more to the story that isn't being told - like the fact that the raising the water rates meant that some peoples' water & sewer bills doubled overnight without warning, that the city just lost the fourth court case in a row to try and prevent the citizens from voting on another unpopular inspection ordinance referendum, that city councilors are chastised in public for asking questions and slowing down the process, that they've limited citizens comments at meetings to 3 minutes each, or 2 minutes if someone else is speaking on the same subject, that they eliminated most of the committees or commissions that had citizen involvement, or that the most contentious legislation is passed at special meetings with no citizen comments or questions allowed. In a recent council meeting, a city council member complained about a citizen for 8 minutes - literally, citizens timed it - disparaging a citizen who has been advocating for the city to live-stream council meetings. This citizen who was complained about has taken it upon himself to livestream council meetings for residents to view with his own equipment for the last year, even though the city council chambers are outfitted with an entire camera and audio system hardwired into the internet. The KZbin comment section for the videos that eventually get posted by the city is disabled, even though the city has been told repeatedly that this is a First Amendment violation. The problem is not strong town ideas or methodology. However, the principles of strong towns even say that strong collaboration with citizens is important, and that just isn't happening here. In that 25-minute video, did you notice that there was only one single resident who participated? Doesn't that seem odd? Another tenant of the strong town approach is incremental change - most of the time, residents are absolutely blindsided by huge projects that are implemented with no warning. The mood of the city is bleak.

[@davidpierce3217]

This reminds me of how Florida recently passed a law requiring condos to fully fund their long term reserves budget item, which is intended to keep the building and infrastructure maintained. Because so many condo associations had been kicking the can down the road for years, if not decades, there was an immediate financial shock to numerous condo owners in the state. But if you don't address those issues, someday you might have another tragedy like the Surfside condo collapse.

[@jamalgibson8139]

Wait, Florida actually passed a law that fixed an existing issue? I'll be damned...

[@aluisious]

@@jamalgibson8139 doesn't matter, most of the coastal communities in Florida will be destroyed in less than 20 years.

[@Khanfuzed1]

@@davidpierce3217 not if, when! unfortunately too it’s not likely to be enough for now, but it’s a major step in the right direction

[@whazzat8015]

Where did my "equity" go??? !!! Wahhhhhhhh

[@KaiserFlash]

@@whazzat8015 For real but I do feel bad for people who bought a condo recently and are now stuck with a massive bill.

[@StephenJaques]

I commend Maumee's municipal leadership for facing their problems, even though they're really hard, instead of sticking their heads in the sand and punting it to the next administration or generation. They're showing rare courage and I wish them well.

[@melanienied8039]

@@StephenJaques oh they put their heads in the sand on major issues and focused on the pretty issued first. Don't be fooled.

[@melanienied8039]

@StephenJaques they didn't start facing their problems till push came to shove with the EPA. You can read the citizens of Maumee's struggle with counsel on the internet. They haven't been transparent.

[@aceman0000099]

​@@melanienied8039 I'm so confused about this story, they are talking about what seems like a failure as if it is a good thing. What am I missing?

[@melanienied8039]

​@aceman0000099 if you search Maumee, Ohio it will fill you in on what we have been experiencing. Maumee was awarded Strong Town 2024... where they did all this fluffy stuff to make it look pretty...but they weren't addressing the sewer issues that the EPA told them to correct... then when it became push come to shove... they throw the problem on the citizens without talking with the citizens on what could be done. The citizens ended up coming together to do their best to talk to council on how to help the situation. It's been a nightmare.

[@aceman0000099]

@@melanienied8039 right, so why doesn't Strong Towns revoke the award or even suggest maybe they didn't deserve it? I'm thinking maybe they want to save their own PR as much as the town does.

[@mauricecarter4135]

The city of Maumee did not invent the problems they're facing -- they're in the same trap as nearly every American city, town, and village finds themselves in today. What they are doing, though, is uncovering and boldly following that path we can all use to reverse the damage done over the last 70 years by the failed model we've all be following. It's not easy. It's scary for everyone. But working through it openly, transparently, and honestly is the only way we get back to the values and practices that made our towns strong before.

[@b1gdawwg]

"For 25 years, Maumee employees had illegally discharged sewage into the Maumee River and falsified reports to the EPA about the city's practices." This led to the controverisal sewer ordinance where Maumee tried to make citizens pay for their damage to sell their homes. If you're from this area, you know the city isn't innocent. This is straight from our local news btw.

[@manan-543]

Does that mean the the separating of storm water drains and sewer drains was never done. How was it not noticed that 150 million liters of water was being pumped instead of the original 25 million limit. What was the cause of it. ​@@b1gdawwg

[@MovingToToledo]

The local maumee officials have been anything but transparent…. They’ve held multiple “emergency meetings early morning meetings” to pass any new legislation for the city. They have only fed us very basic and often false information along the way. The city did cause the problem we are in today by not doing anything sooner…. This should not be on the homeowners and it should’ve never gotten this bad.

[@melanienied8039]

@@mauricecarter4135 they weren't transparent at all with their citizens.

[@bobzelley5100]

@@mauricecarter4135 the infrastructure is aging out and the municipal officials failed to have a proper repair and replacement account . The underfunded pension for municipal employees are coming due for shock to the budget .

[@Madaboutmada]

So much of our daily problems, both large like climate change and small like potholes, can be put into one word: externalities. As long as people continue to turn a blind eye on truly important outcomes of irresponsible growth, this will never be resolved. As a former city planner in Toledo and a current planner in Pittsburgh I can say with confidence that solvency is a pipedream for a majority of cities and towns across the US. The people of Maumee should be very happy that they have real public servants working for their interests.

[@XandateOfHeaven]

Exactly, people are fine with the concept that freedom can be limited when it causes harm to others, but have a hard time with the idea that their everyday activities have long term and more remote harm.

[@josephfisher426]

Solvency better not be a pipe dream, else people will leave! I think that way too often the attempts to address these issues devolve into sloganeering: pro-bike, anti-car, or the opposite. The development that already exists is going to change slowly if at all, and that includes the stuff like traffic demand. Advantaging re-development, heavily, seems like the best way forward.

[@SigFigNewton]

@@josephfisher426surely in some cases people just leaving is the best outcome

[@melanienied8039]

They aren't working for us. We had to come together as citizens to get them to start doing something.

[@Michael-rr7um]

By externalities you mean capitalism?

[@knapptimezzz]

1000% home owners should pay for the resources they use. It's like driving a big SUV, you can't complain about the gas prices if you're not willing to accept you made this decision. If you want a home with a big yard, you have to be able to afford the infrastructure. These are probably the type of people who complain about government debt but insist that all their infrastructure is free.

[@SilverDragonJay]

The problem is convincing them that this _is_ the cost of their home. For years, decades even, they've been lead to believe that they _were_ paying their way. Its only natural that there would be some push back when the cost to maintain their home suddenly skyrockets because someone else had been subsidizing them all this time. It _looks_ like the government decided to just charge them more for nothing, when its actually them finally getting the bill they're owed. This is especially a problem when the homeowner was barely hanging in there to begin with. All of a sudden, they go from being able to afford their home to not, and if you _can't_ afford a suburban home then there's not a lot of great alternatives available to you, especially if you have a family. This mess is such a complicated web of dependencies that its not going to be easy on anyone to detangle. (and its only going to get harder considering how this last election cycle went. Federal government not subsidizing repair projects? They're going to do even less now with the republicans having complete control of the federal government. I hate it here.)

[@monclerpaint]

pay for the sewage treatment plants lying to city officials and pouring sewage in the river ? that's not resources - that's MISUSE of resources, citizens shouldn't be required to cover the cost of that in any sane reality.

[@Turambar_499]

Personally I think a government that decides to legislate saddling retirees on fixed incomes with $20k in home repairs that nobody was aware of because you defrauded the EPA for 3 decades is basically criminal. But no I guess the residents are all selfish actually

[@SherrieSchunck-rc6bu]

You're absolutely wrong on that assumption, it's having to pay for the city's portion in the ROW.

[@MarcoMasseria]

@@SilverDragonJay Well said sir. I think you nail it precisely. My concern isn't at the municipal level, though it's a great lens thru which to view the problem. If this is happening at the municipal level, what about state? What about federal? What will all citizens say when the bill for what we thought we were paying for comes due? This town is just a single example of what is coming for the entire United States. How do you solve it? You can't. It's not a problem. As Chris Martenson says, it's a predicament. There are no solutions. The whole shebang needs to come down and be redrawn from the ground up ... and it will. This entire charade only holds as long as the underlying debt markets hold and those hold only as long as debt buyers reasonably believe they have value there. What we now see and understand is that they shouldn't. Just when we need to be most unified to push together, the US is at it's most divided. Not because I say so. Buckle up folks. We're gonna see stuff that exceeds our imagination. I can't possibly know what that even means.

[@Skipping2HellPHX]

Love that Strong Towns doesn't just award and move on, but actually FOLLOWS UP. So few journalists and organizations do the less glamorous work of following up.

[@oldbrokenhands]

Sorry to use an old cliche, but it's always helped me in my quests. By the mile, it's a trial; by the yard, it's hard; by the inch, it's a cinch. My quests started with walking one step, losing one pound, finishing one class; and now it's with picking up trash, making phone calls, going to meetings, getting community groups to collaborate. The overall task seems monumental, but when I break it down into a board full of post-it-notes, it just becomes a wall that has fewer and fewer post-it-notes. Thanks for all y'all do, it motivates me.

[@katherandefy]

Keep going🎉

[@大砲はピュ]

Dead internet theory

[@_.I.-_--_-8-_--_-.I.]

U got it mixed up...1st is the yard....then mile

[@craigwall4008]

I'm a member of an HOA board. NJ and FL are going through similar infrastructure issues now, as both states passed laws requiring HOAs to have reserve studies done, AND fund them. Which means big monthly increases for communities that never put away money for infrastructure repairs. These HOAs were also insolvent; people live here for decades not even realizing what hidden future costs aren't being funded, for the sake of politics. Maybe there needs to be some requirements for towns to have something similar done to report *their* infrastructure too, if there's no requirement already.

[@evanr1940]

long term residents voting against due increases figuring the bill is not due until after they are gone.

[@jamalgibson8139]

I lived in an HOA (condo) with a similar issue. They had bad pipes installed in the 80s that were constantly busting and causing massive water damage. The condo association held a meeting to announce they were raising rates and offered several solutions to members up to ripping out the plumbing of each unit because it was only a matter of time until they broke. Residents were furious and voted down every option. It didn't help that most of these were rentals and owners were distant, but still, no one exercised common sense.

[@springinfialta106]

@@jamalgibson8139 Owner Occupied vs Rentals is a big problem with HOAs. Those who want to deal with the issue head on, and those who want to kick the can down the road. I bought new in my HOA. The problem was that when the homes were being built and not yet occupied the HOA board members were all employees of the builder and created CC&R's that allowed indiscriminate renting. There is now little or no way for the CC&Rs to be changed to limit the percentage of homes that can be rented out.

[@SigFigNewton]

@@evanr1940today’s younger generations have been taking notes on how to push off burdens onto future generations, but we still have so much to learn from our elders about techniques for doing so

[@shingshongshamalama]

Maybe instead of just being useless, local municipal governments should actually fund infrastructure and not expect private residents to pay for it themselves by leaving it to HOAs? Just a thought.

[@TheLyricalCleric]

Definitely an important topic that not enough towns and cities are talking about. Most of our infrastructure in America is aging out and needing replacement, and although people often think about roads and bridges, sewer lines are ESSENTIAL to a functioning city. Frankly, some of these suburban islands are going to need to get back to septic tanks because the costs of maintaining their sewer lines are just too high. I saw one town in NW Indiana that built a dozen new subdivisions in just one year, all while their downtown has fewer shops and livable buildings than ever before, and I just thought-here’s the next failed town, just give it 30 years and nobody will be able to afford all these suburbs.

[@Frank.donovan]

As a accountant, it frustrates me that city and municipal accountants and financial workers don’t read the fine print and think ‘hey, this will be a big depreciating asset in 20-40 years, let’s add that into the budget’. Immediately when I buy a new or used car I automatically budget for the next one. We need to do this with everything we buy, why can’t these people think like that!

[@tealkerberus748]

Valid. Ordinary people aren't accountants and may not think like that .. but city and municipal accountants *are* accountants. It's their job to think like accountants!

[@AlohaChips]

As someone on a condo board we have a management company, and their guy plans our budgets with board imput, talking often about whether something we want/need to do will be paid from our reserve or our operating accounts. The reserve accounts are for the big, long-term maintenance items the condo association is responsible for (roofs, sewer/water lines, sidewalks, road/lot pavement, etc). I have been baffled by both the recent issues uncovered in the Surfside collapse (Condos weren't required to budget for future maint in FL before?????????) and this video that suggests ... cities/municipalities may have been ignoring planning for future full replacement costs as well??? Is it really true? Our best-practice actuarial review we get every year makes a note about our reserve accounts and whether they appear to be funded properly. The reserves are a documented part of our yearly budgets. Have city/muni accountants really not been including that kind of thing? Right now I am thinking all the time about the million+ we may need when our sewer/water system's issues really can't be passed over with smaller fixes anymore. We simply hope a full redo is still a decade or two out for these buildings that were built in the 1960s, because we know we have a lot of money to save.

[@alcedob.5850]

I guess they don't expect 5o be the responsible ones in 20-40 years so why should they care? It's the individualism that leads to irresponsibility

[@brett76544]

I'm a chairman of a sewer authority in PA, we looked at what we wanted to do back in 2017. 1. epoxy the digesters (operators did that over two years just the cost of the epoxy. 2. Generators at the pumping stations. 460k later we do not have to call in pumper trucks and haul to the plant, so about 55k savings a year until replacement. 3 replace current sludge plate press with screw press due to being cheaper to haul away now. Cheaper to haul now. So about 600k and project going out to bid. Savings should be around 80k a year. 4. New roof on a building. put on in 1986. How do make a decision to do something. Look at the cost of the old way. Maybe have a test of the new way like a screw press and rotary press systems to compare. The life time cost of the systems for replacing if you put it in. somethings are nice cute, but more expensive in the long run. Then full pricing for the system. The cost to replace everything as it is worn out prior to total failure, like 30 or 40 years for a treatment system, 80-120 years for sewer lines, manholes, pumping stations. Then can you afford to take out bonds that will double in payout over 40 years, will you ever see full grants, 3or 2 for 1 grants again. Then will grants be out there in 20 years. For my sewer system the rate is now a flat $68, 24 is debt service, 32 is O&M and 12 is for capital projects. For full pricing I would have to add 36 to the 12. That is 104 a month. we are the only sewer system owned by municipalities that uses capital projects funding for more than a way to round the budget to the next dollar in our county and we are only at 25% and people are questioning why we raised rates last year with over half a million in the bank.

[@whazzat8015]

But if you don't pay your bills and lie to regulators, the option looks cheaper. Come on now, you are not falling for Big Cholera again?

[@katherandefy]

😒 it’s so much work and I applaud hard work. It’s not nothing but the community remains in the dark, sounds like. I wish our city would admit to our problems but the way it has approached things successfully plays to the shame factor and, the poorer and the more disabled folks become, the more the problems keep piling on. Hoping the next crew don’t drop the ball and not even keep up with what the last crew were positively doing something about. Literally mold and other fungal and pest growth such as dangerous increases in mosquito populations. Literally dank. People getting long term respiratory illnesses and this applies to everyone not just those at the bottom of the financial picture. I finally moved out of the mold infested rental I could afford into the mosquito infested one in a well heeled neighborhood that I can’t afford. At least I don’t have the same respiratory illnesses but the allergies remain because air quality is a beast the further south a town is. The highways were a vital step but removing railways altogether continues to be a serious problem because bus lines started with polluting underwhelmingly maintained transit back when leaded gas was still a thing. And as the numbers of buses still in business decreases the transit worsens and offers fewer lines to the public while the numbers of people paying completely unaffordable personal vehicle loans increases and makes pollution worse for everyone across the board. That’s a perfect picture of how cities lose money because people can’t afford to stop in town businesses while paying those loans since they have to work and sleep and drive all the time as a direct result of their cities long term planning effects. Those die-ways increase pedestrian-vehicle deaths yearly and people lose wealth slowly and surely, barely aware of the causes. And waking up from the dream of good intentions is terrible. I’m behind your kind approach to dealing with these issues and I support more folks in your line bringing it up. The courage to do what Maumee was about to do is impressive and I hope more towns do the same.

[@whazzat8015]

@@katherandefy Good story to share. You described leaving the 19th century, and how easy it is to forget what kind of work we had to do to achieve it. We forget that History can move backwards.

[@lephtovermeet]

I know this is an "uplifting" and positive video but it makes my blood boil. If you want to live 10 or 20 miles out from any sort of urban or economic center with a density of 1 house per quarter acre, your water, power, telecom, property taxes etc. should be mandated to be priced appropriately, including requirements for annual adjustments. If people saw that living in the suburb requires a $350/mo water bill, an 8% property tax in order to be solvent and sustainable, then we'd have that lovely supply and demand that all the neoliberals worship. Instead we leach resources from economic drivers often leaving them crumbling and struggling, and we subsidized entitled parasites who think it's their god given right to drive a giant f350 15-30 miles every time they have to do anything, oh and that gas should cost $1/gal the streets should be perfect and there had better not be any traffic! Delusional.

[@XandateOfHeaven]

It's a little better in deep rural areas where folks have to pay for their own wells, septic tanks, and propane. At the very least most of this is upfront and clear.

[@MaumeeSewer]

Wow, how unkind. Maumee is a working-class family suburb with an average median household income of 79k and actually runs about 63% democrat. The citizens also asked for a way for citizens to collectively fund the sewer fixes to prevent seniors and less fortunate neighbors from going bankrupt. I find your assumptions a little disturbing.

[@lephtovermeet]

@XandateOfHeaven to be clear I'm really not opposed to subsidizing farmers, ranchers, forestry service, etc. essential low density and rural crucial jobs.

[@itsallsotiresome69]

Most people who live in actual rural areas get only electricity as a service, and they do have to pay for the extension of the line from the nearest service point to their land. And even that "service" is unreliable, so they do own and use generators in outages. The sense of entitlement in McMansion dwellers is utterly bizarre, because they will call people out for "infringing" on their rights to not live in the dangerous and crime ridden city, my brother in Christ if you don't grow crops and have livestock you ARE already living in the city😂

[@lephtovermeet]

@sovereigndonation4217 ha, agree. I can get along with most rural people and I've spent time in some communities where they get electricity only, water is well, sewage is septic, trash is pick-up service or haul yourself - now cell service is provided as well.

[@JosephÁ-r1y8l]

Great to see this community being open with their finances and doing the hard work towards becoming more sustainable and resilient.

[@darbyohara]

They’re not open. They don’t include their long term retirement obligations in their liability reporting

[@aeoleaburwell7247]

Really good to hear someone question, however, briefly, the Townhall meeting format. The alternative route here, more individual interviews, requires a lot of work. Which the Maumee folks evidently did. Good for them. I see a lot of community building inherent in that process.

[@shereenbienz6511]

I lived in Maumee as a child and my parents have lived in the same home my entire life. I moved back in 2023. I love what the city did with the uptown area and I find myself looking at the stores in conant. I’ve visited shops I never knew were there. I do wish they had come up with a better solution for the sewer issue, but I understand the necessity for a solution. We are poisoning our water sources, a place where we wish, boat, swim. I hope Maumee can thrive again, brining students back to the school system and continue to develop and encourage businesses.

[@jimmiller5600]

You can either face the facts or you can ignore them. Maumee's City Manager and Water Department Manager lied for decades about "whiny liberal tree-hugger rules" like keeping tons of sheet out of the river. The bill is now due. Side note: The western side of Lake Erie has serious algae blooms. Farmers got blamed for it. Turned out a lot was coming from Maumee and its cooked books.

[@RandomDeforge]

in 50s and 60s corporates tax rate was 52%. back then they had an incentive to reinvest the money in the communities to get things written off. today its 21% with multiple loop holes they abuse. in my opinion thats the root cause of the problem

[@Scriptorsilentum]

race to the bottom. took off like a bat out of hell beginning with ronnie reagun. if we tax the rich they'll leave. even if they stay it's not like they pay much in taxes in the first place.

[@AnotherDuck]

The bigger they are, the more lawyers they can hire to figure those loopholes out. The rich get richer, and the rest gets left behind and pay the bill. Corporatism is the main problem of capitalism.

[@XandateOfHeaven]

Part of the problem is that infrastructure is largely local and not federal. Making towns dependent on grants and loans from the federal government gives incentives to create unsustainable infrastructure.

[@jonathanjones3126]

@RandomDeforge spread out suburb designs cause the problem. Higher density requires much less pipes and wires so less to replace with more revenue coming in

[@jamalgibson8139]

​@@XandateOfHeaven I don't agree with that. Sometimes you need that type of grant to get big infrastructure through. The problem is the lack of foresight into what that investment will bring. A grant to widen a roadway is non-productive, while a grant for a train-station is productive, relatively speaking.

[@steve_arnold]

What a great story, Mya and residents of Maumee! My city of Fitchburg, WI, has a similar story. We are lucky to have separate storm and sanitary sewer systems, but most of the city has been developed in the suburban pattern. Fortunately, the current administration understands the cost of this, and for the last ten or so years, all new subdivisions have "missing middle" and high-density housing as well as single-family blocks. The mayor (an accountant!) has required all new city projects (roads, park improvements, city buildings, vehicles, etc.) to have a replacement cost worksheet at initial proposal time, and these replacement costs are built into future budgets. It's a painful, but smart, way to plan. I hope our $3.6 million operating referendum passes next Tuesday. City government will need that money for business as usual in the face of state levy limits on cities and declining state aid.

[@rvdb7363]

Sounds like your town is taking some very sensible steps. Especially budgeting for the future expenses for the things that are built today is a major step forward (and its quite insane that this isn't the standard in way too many towns).

[@btudrus]

@@rvdb7363 As an European who was born in Eastern Europe I just cannot understand how a "capitalist" USA is behaving in such a "socialist" way - by ignoring the future costs and pouring money from the central government which creates debts in the long term. It is just mind-blowing...

[@wumi2419]

@@btudrus because it's not "socialist" at all. It's much more similar to modern shareholder capitalism, with short term profits above all else, where each leader reasonably expects to be gone by the time problems appear.

[@AnotherDuck]

@@wumi2419 When even the economy is disposable, everyone loses except the few who get out before it's disposed. The source of _many_ problems and why things aren't as good as they should be.

[@JaydenHolland-wo4fd]

@@btudrus If the town doesn't come up with this money in this "socialist" manner then it would eventually plunge into more debt.

[@SRastogi_Planner]

It takes a strong team of leaders in the government and community to not only bring the problems to light but also to keep forging ahead despite strong public criticism. Thank you for showing what resilience in leadership looks like for building a resilient town. I wish good luck to all Maumee residents with finding a solution to this!

[@AndyInTheFort]

Maumee: so proud of you and everything you have done. Sending my love from Fort Smith. We are going through the EXACT same thing here, this video could have just as easily been about us!

[@kenleonardo3480]

Excellent video and commendable efforts by the city to improve their town & face the difficult infrastructure challenges by engaging the community.

[@rickbrooks1994]

Congratulations Maumee. The operative words you deserve now are courage, perseverance, pragmatic optimism, resilience, honesty, listening, respect. Way to hang in there to do the hard work of getting the right people informed and involved. I will gladly share the video with our city council and staff as well as colleagues in other communities in north central Illinois.

[@MisyeDiVre]

The painfully honest truth is that everything that people want out of suburbia is not in any way threatened by walkability, mixed used zoning, and buildings with more than three stories in height, or well-designed alternatives to driving, and if the nimbys need to be dragged into common sense kicking and screaming, then so be it.

[@Alexclermontwrites]

I like the narrative being given here, but I wish there was more emphasis on what Maumee did in terms of infrastructure and confronting their suburban debt. I just got the impression that they had problems, official looked for solutions (general urbanists statements about narrow roads and walkability), there was friction with the community but they got down with the plan, people are not happy. The end. I'm just not at sure what, exactly they did in terms of policy.

[@radishpineapple74]

@Alexclermontwrites Was about to make this same comment, thanks.

[@MaumeeSewer]

I can answer that. First, there was no suburban debt - the city did not have a deficit until covid and actually had a surplus of $700k in 2018. The new big debt is a result of two things; at least $20 million from a bond taken out for beautification projects and the now impeding issues to satisfy the EPA after having lied to them for nearly 30 years. The first ordinance they passed to address the sewer issues required mandatory point-of-sale inspections that required not just repairs or remediation of clean water connections that caused inflow and infiltration but also the replacement of any clay sewer laterals or footer tiles, regardless of the condition they were in. This caused sellers to face repair bills of anywhere from $25k to 40k, with at least one being close to 100k. For reference, the average median income of the city is $79k. People were outraged by the costs - especially since much of the repairs were unnecessary. The citizens organized a meeting to discuss the issue and agreed that this is a community issue that all citizens should solve collaboratively. The group was literally begging for everyone to share the burden to not bankrupt homeowners one at a time. Time again, they were told no, that it was the individual property owner's responsibility, and that "you wouldn't pay for your neighbor's repairs," even though that's exactly what they were asking to do. Citizens organized an initiative to repeal the ordinance with only 24 hours to get the signatures in time. They were able to get nearly three times the needed amount with several hours to spare. The city then repealed the ordinance. They held the round tables and told everyone that they had applied for grants but were turned down; but citizens actually followed up with the EPA to confirm. The Ohio EPA said the city had nominated for funds, but after 3 years of no follow-up from the city, they closed the application since the city never followed through. Then, the citizens were told that it was not possible to use public funds on private property, and that's why the city could not help provide assistance even if they got the grants or if citizens paid into a collective fund. By that point, the citizens had formally created their own committee and spent weeks researching legal cases, other Ohio communities that used public funds for private sewer repairs, and as many government grants as possible that could be used and were even advertised to be used in this way. The committee sent a 24-page report with sources condensing all of the information to everyone in the city administration and city government. It was ignored by all. Last month the city presented a plan that was almost exactly what the committee had asked for, but said they still have to get a higher government legal authority for the private property piece. That's where we are today. Additionally, the uproar over beautification and economic development isn't because citizens are resistant to change; it's because of the feeling that citizens are being left behind or uncared for. For example, the city recently started a business façade grant program that gives businesses up to $60,000 to update or repair the fronts of their buildings. At the same time, they recently told citizens that the city would no longer pay for city refuse collection and that everyone would have to arrange their own trash pickup next year. The funds used for the façade grant come from the same fund that pays for trash and is mostly funded by income tax. When citizens pointed out that seems unfair because they pay taxes too, the city told them that citizens don't pay as much as businesses, so they really shouldn't complain about it since they don't contribute as much. The businesses receiving these funds have no specific threshold to meet to receive these grants other than a nebulous "adds a job" and promises to stay for 5 years. Both the most recent businesses have very few part-time employees, so it will not be the economic boost it should be. All of the improvements are only to attract new businesses and new higher-income residents. While that's not a bad thing, city parks flood, have broken or old equipment, and are generally neglected. The city's website doesn't even have a list of the parks in the city. The city took out a 24 million dollar bond in 2021 after the discovery of the sewer issues and many of the studies; 19 million of it was allocated to the uptown streetscape and other road beautification. The road diet they were talking about, where cars "whizzed down the street at 50 miles per hour?" No - that street has always only had a 35 or 25 mph speed limit and is one of only 3 non-highway bridges crossing the river in the entire county. So, really, there is a lot more to the story that isn't being told - like the fact that the raising the water rates meant that some peoples' water & sewer bills doubled overnight without warning, that the city just lost the fourth court case in a row to try and prevent the citizens from voting on another unpopular inspection ordinance referendum, that city councilors are chastised in public for asking questions and slowing down the process, that they've limited citizens comments at meetings to 3 minutes each, or 2 minutes if someone else is speaking on the same subject, that they eliminated most of the committees or commissions that had citizen involvement, or that the most contentious legislation is passed at special meetings with no citizen comments or questions allowed. In a recent council meeting, a city council member complained about a citizen for 8 minutes - literally, citizens timed it - disparaging a citizen who has been advocating for the city to live-stream council meetings. This citizen who was complained about has taken it upon himself to livestream council meetings for residents to view with his own equipment for the last year, even though the city council chambers are outfitted with an entire camera and audio system hardwired into the internet. The KZbin comment section for the videos that eventually get posted by the city is disabled, even though the city has been told repeatedly that this is a First Amendment violation. The problem is not strong town ideas or methodology. However, the principles of strong towns even say that strong collaboration with citizens is important, and that just isn't happening here. In that 25-minute video, did you notice that there was only one single resident who participated? Doesn't that seem odd? Another tenant of the strong town approach is incremental change - most of the time, residents are absolutely blindsided by huge projects that are implemented with no warning. The mood of the city is bleak.

[@douglasanderson7301]

@MaumeeSewer thank you for your thoughtful and thorough comment and response to the video. I watched the video because I agree with so many of the goals of the (video) group. I mean, who doesn't like and want a pretty little downtown. Yet I had watched a suburban town that I lived in pursue a similar ideology. It was frustrating to watch. "We're listening" was actually we're letting you talk and 'feel' involved, but the destination of the 'conversation' is decided. So, too, with so much of the illogic of 'economic development', which emphasizes building pretty and interesting and the good jobs will come. It sounds great and plausible but is so gamed that the net result is not pretty. The light rail needs riders. The 12 coffee shops need customers, and thus, apartments come to dominate all new construction. But by the time the town has changed, the city manager has moved along, and the debt is due. Good luck to you and your town

[@MaumeeSewer]

@douglasanderson7301 i appreciate that, thanks! When the administration brought strong towns ideas to Maumee, the citizens were pretty on board, and the city even created a strong towns committee. However, it was quickly dissolved. The tough thing is that people specifically move to Maumee because it's a small, affordable suburb with great schools. The surrounding suburbs have a bigger population, higher income, and better opportunities for development - Maumee will never be able to compete in that way - we're only 10 sq miles and landlocked. Had they used more of the strong towns ideology to target that demographic, I think we'd be having a different conversation. The new restaurant they showed in the video was entirely subsided by the city who bought the building and remodeled it for somewhere around 500k-750k prior to giving the proprietors a 15 year lease. The restaurant serves fondue and wine and is only open 5 hours a day 5 days a week and is constantly empty. I'm all for economic development when it pays divedens. I'm all for beautification and walkability when it serves the population. I actually think the new apartment development will be great, so long as businesses don't continue the wfh trend and end up giving up on offices once their commercial leases end, which is a popular theory. I wish we spent more time courting high-tech manufacturing and Healthcare complexes as part-time servers dont contribute much to income tax revenue or job creation. I also wish more had been done to make Maumee the ideal location for people to move to by having more attractive amenities and programs.

[@someguy6075]

@@MaumeeSewer Thanks for the information. I like walkable downtowns and all that but I was disappointed with the video and stopped halfway through. According to them (around 11:50), your average lot width in Maumee is 600 feet, property taxes work like income taxes and a 4plex is automatically 4x the value of a single family home. They also talk about this $140 million liability as if it's deferred maintenance and say "it doesn't accumulate overnight" (8:30). Only, it's not and it did, because your state EPA in effect declared combined sewers obsolete and not grandfatherable. They also imply that infrastructure costs are a simple matter of linear miles. That's probably largely true, but you'll have a large jump in costs if you make trenching not an option for maintenance and upgrades for example. I can accept a grain of truth to these concepts but I feel like these explanations aren't really trying and the urbanist community is too dogmatic. They say things like "discuss in the comments" but creators themselves tend not to not engage critics and comments look like an echo chamber to me.

[@JoyClinton-i8g]

1. Why did the Surfside condo collapse outside of Miami? Answer: people didn't want to pay for maintenance. The mantra is: I'll be dead before the upgrades/repairs are needed. 2. Detroit (also in the Midwest, and NOT a suburb) had 1.8 million population in 1950, tied with LA for 4th largest city in the US. Now it has 660,000 population. No shortage of infrastructure. A world class water system. Detroit went bankrupt because the cost of maintaining its infrastructure was more than people were willing to pay (about 40% of the streetlights were out at bankruptcy). 3. Flint was on the Detroit water system, but didn't want to pay Detroit for it. So, it "rolled its own dice" and ended up with lead contamination. "You get what you pay for." Flint blames the state for not stopping it from its actions.

[@skyisreallyhigh3333]

That's not why Surfside collapsed. Surfside collapsed because they used concrete that was weaker than they should have been using. On top of that the planters that were added years later greatly increased the weight. It wasn't because they didnt pay to maintain it, its because the people who constructed it used subpar materials.

[@jerryglasses]

​@@skyisreallyhigh3333 true but they failed to do the inspections required which would have found the problems which could have been fixed.

[@capennanen]

You are wrong about how Flint switched off the Detroit water system. Under the emergency city manager law(Act 436 of 2012) signed into law by Governor Snyder, he was allowed to appoint a city manager who was not answerable to anyone in Flint. That city manager made the decision to switch Flint's water source to the Flint river. None of the residents nor any members of it's government made the choice. Flint blames the state and the unelected unaccountable bureaucrat it appointed for the choice that poisoned a city.

[@JoyClinton-i8g]

@@capennanen So, to be pedantic, Flint was not paying many of its bills and had to be taken over by an appointed someone who was a financial adult. If Flint had collected taxes and paid its bills, the water problem would not have happened.

[@JoyClinton-i8g]

@@skyisreallyhigh3333 Surfside collapsed in June 2021. The problems had been reported in 2018 and noted as "much worse" in April 2021. There was already a $15 million estimate for repairs. But no repairs happened ...

[@tomselek1000]

It’s fantastic to see the beginnings of something special celebrated instead of just chastising places for not being a finished product. I hope more towns elect leaders who are willing to have the tough conversation instead of just being a part of a glorified popularity contest.

[@barryrobbins7694]

This video highlights the fact that transparency in city spending is more than an itemized list. It needs to include the long term consequences to the city and its citizens within a 100 year timeframe. Things like water quality should never be compromised; there are other cities down river.

[@SigFigNewton]

Then we’re in agreement! Cities on river deltas can compromise on water quality.

[@MaumeeSewer]

Water quality is the issue. Maumee discharged less than most other communities on the river, and there has been a concerted effort for everyone to stop. The issue is that the city of Maumee lied about it for 30 years while ignoring the problem.

[@barryrobbins7694]

@@SigFigNewton Think of “down river” as a metaphor.

[@SigFigNewton]

@@barryrobbins7694 😃

[@barryrobbins7694]

@ It is amazing that any amount of sewage should be allowed to go into the river. Lying about it is a lack of transparency, and affects water quality and city finances.

[@TheDanMan06]

You did a really great job with this presentation. Thanks for sharing.

[@markd3131]

"Complicated is another word for fragile." Proverbs for engineers (and everyone else).

[@DutchinCle]

If you arent subbed to this channel and you are a homeowner you deserve to watch the catalog of videos on here. The suggestion of what is going to happen to the suburbs is kind of an eye opener. I heard Chuck say it a few weeks ago. Even in Cleveland Ohio. I see the evidence that Chuck and strong towns is on to something prophetic.

[@Churro_Douglas]

Nothing like 100 million of debt to get a community to sober up and start investing in the future. To paraphrase Churchill, you've run out of money, now it is time to get smart! I'm proud of the work being done in Maumee, and I hope my city can reach the same conclusions as we face the existential question of how to handle our municipal debt.

[@Add_Infinitum]

1:40 Yo that title is CLEAN

[@wyhesggifrid]

inspiring to see an administration that decides to tackle the issue instead of pushing it to future generations

[@RangeMcrangeface]

Some cities haven’t seen it yet because their growth covers it up via “impact fees” required of builders. The solution for cities is- Allowing for city wide gradual, but consistent adding of density to the already existing city infrastructure (i.e. sewer, water, storm drains, electricity and parks). This means lots over time that had a single family home would be allowed and even encouraged to replace it with a townhome or duplex. To accomplish this, cities at the same time need to make their streets safe and enjoyable places to be. Moving cars quickly can’t be the most important objective. In fact it should probably be 3rd or 4th, with safety, fiscal sustainability and balanced modes of transport as 1-3. These are the strategies that have proven to work: -slow drivers via street bulb outs, street tables, lane narrowing, less car parking, protected bike lanes, trees, improved pedestrian sight lines and many more. Your citizens will want to get out of their cars and even leave them home and get on their bike instead. That will happen more and more as citizens do it in greater numbers. Zoning needs to require building scoot up to the street and parking to the back. Lastly, a fast, efficient, reliable, and safe bus system will go a long way to achieving these goals.

[@SigFigNewton]

Yes. Density, density, density. The less dense the population, the closer the town moves toward a Detroit-after-people-left financial situation. Even people who quickly grasp how enormously inefficient single family home suburbs are due to them requiring vastly more pavement, water pipe, natural gas pipe, and electric wire per person… still often overlook how much more expensive it is to provide police and fire fighter services to a larger land area. There isn’t much that is worse for a town’s finances than a low population density.

[@SigFigNewton]

It’s honestly shameful that property taxes on single family homes aren’t larger than they currently are. Property tax on a condo should be a small fraction.

[@MaumeeSewer]

@@SigFigNewton Maumee is pretty small and landlocked, and there is not much room for expanded development of multifamily property, though we are adding an additional 500 housing units via a luxury apartment development soon. The whole city is only 10 square miles - we are higher than the ideal population density threshold of a 15-minute city.

[@Immudzen]

Roads are bankrupting towns and cities. People refuse to pay what it costs to maintain them. Suburbs are subsidized areas in most towns because the population density and tax rates are FAR too low to pay for the services they need. Fewer lanes for cars and encouraging more usage of bikes reduces maintenances burdens. It is also why we need more round abouts instead of signalized intersections. Those signalized intersections are MUCH more expensive to maintain.

[@lukejohnson1274]

We have the roundabouts covered. I think Northwest Ohio has more roundabouts than London!

[@josephfisher426]

Roundabouts suck up a lot of area that could otherwise be taxed.

[@suen5006]

@@josephfisher426 It's worth it! Love roundabouts!!

[@josephfisher426]

@@suen5006 They are a good tool, I just wouldn't conclude that they save money in a commercial area, for example. In that type of situation they work better with suburban development. Their capacity is less than that of the road lanes themselves, so on busy roads they may need to have a lane added to keep them from being bottlenecks at busy times.

[@SigFigNewton]

Roundabouts are safer and tend decrease time wasted at intersection

[@julielh5193]

Congratulations MAUMEE!!! I wish we were all in the running. I live in Jacksonville Beach and the stroad that is A1A/3rd street is always life threatening for pedestrians, dog walkers, bicyclists…

[@vickileonardo1820]

I appreciate the compassion you brought to the what the leaders and families are dealing with!

[@shadowcentaur]

Here in Milwaukee our county government has been taking some big steps to resolve the maintenance based insolvency. Milwaukee county is about 500 million in the hole worth of deferred maintenance. Our county government is ripping up tons of asphalt to reduce maintenance liability and remove impermeable surface to help reduce burden on the storm sewer.

[@darkwing3713]

I've heard that there's some kind of permeable concrete that reduces flooding now. Are they going that route?

[@MovingToToledo]

I am a local realtor in Maumee Ohio and also live in the area. I want to make it clear that there has been NO transparency regarding this matter to the public. Most real estate agents learned about through our local title companies 2+ weeks after it passed because it was done through an emergency early morning meeting that the public was unaware of. When it was passed, the ENTIRE city has been fighting against our current leadership, Patrick Burtch. He did the same thing in Jackson Michigan and they are now facing the same issues we are trying to so vehemently prevent. The ordinance started out as a full property inspection at sale, and was later minimized to include only sewer issues that the city has been aware of for over 30 years. On top of that, 2 years ago this same leadership made the sewer system from h th e sidewalk to the center of the street, the homeowners property. It was normally only what was in your land up to the sidewalk. The fact that homeowners are having to foot the bill for sidewalks and roads to be torn up and re out down because of that law change only a couple years ago, is one of many reasons people are so angry and resistant here. No one agrees with Burtchs leadership in the town, 3k plus people on just 1 of multiple Facebook groups against it. the goal is to have him voted out of office or to resign. He and the current leadership following this model is corrupt and ultimately negatively effecting property values in the area. (No one local wants to move to Maumee anymore) and homeowners are directly losing equity as a result. Many who have lived there for multiple decades. Please do your research on these topics and do not believe the propaganda that is this video. Please reach out to me directly with any questions or concerns. We will likely have a new real estate disclosure addendum ONLY for Maumee (no other local area like toledo, Perrysburg, Sylvania, holland, etc) that is multiple pages and will force buyers and sellers to sign a disclosure saying the municipality may reinstate the sewer ordinance and force them to upgrade their sewers with no help from the municipality. People who are behind on their mortgages cannot afford these repairs and will be forced to foreclose if the sewer ordinance is reinstated. I’ve lived here nearly all my life and what has happened over the last 5 years has done nothing but hurt our community, other than the fact that our community came together stronger than EVER before to fight against this mismanagement.

[@melanienied8039]

@MovingToToledo spot on. I live here too... not fast from uptown. Wow.

[@marcd6897]

So what’s your proposed solution to address this problem then? If I assume that the sewer problem exists and needs to be fixed as a baseline for now, how can this be fixed and who will be funding this then?

[@MovingToToledo]

@@marcd6897 many solutions have been proposed, however since we have not received full transparency from the local officials, none are likely to come to fruition in the foreseeable future as it’s hard to gauge the full scope of how this is being handled. I believe This issue should’ve been addressed by the city 30 years ago. They have been paying millions of dollars in fines all these years until finally the EPA mandated the change. Again, it should’ve never gotten to this point but we are here. One obvious solution is using current tax dollars to make the repairs required from the sidewalk to the street, which would’ve been the case prior to 2022. If we were to receive a tax audit from the city, we could likely red adjust spending in certain areas to prioritize these repairs. That paired with this years tax re assessment which assessed the majority of of homes well over their fair market value, increasing property tax bills all around Lucas county. It has also come to light that Burtch failed to receive or pursue grants that would’ve aided homeowners financially in the repairs. To be fair, I’m not in a position nor paid to address these problems, however if I was you can gurantee I would be dedicating all my resources and efforts towards this problem as it is THE biggest priority in the town right now. We all know this problem needs fixed, we’re upset with how our officials went about solving the problem at the citizens expense so Burtch and his councilman can pat themselves on the back for this stupid award. Believe me, no one in Maumee is excited about the “Strong Town Award” when we have so many other issues that need addressed. Unfortunately because of how it came to be, this award is openly mocked among citizens because it’s seen as a cover up for all true goals Burtch is pursuing. We aren’t mad this is getting fixed, we’re mad that it’s always been an issue, it was never openly disclosed to residents, it was not previously the residents responsibilities, but now all of a sudden it is

[@josephfisher426]

@@marcd6897 There's going to be an inherent problem with older small towns: they heavily tended to create these combined systems because the service area was small enough that the sewer treatment plant was way under capacity anyway. And they usually don't have the growth to make big investments without big contortions. This is something that is general better handled on the state level so that the wheel only has to be invented once.

[@MovingToToledo]

@@marcd6897 I wrote you a lengthy explanation but it appears that comment has been deleted…

[@FreeSamich]

What great honesty from those leaders to self report. It seems to me that when a state's response to identifying problems caused by failing infrastructure is to lay down massive fines, that this kind of system is probably a deterrent for many communities with similar issues as Maumee to also self report- only contributing to continual infrastructure failures, pollution, and political corruption in attempting to disguise the issues. Why have a system that punishes honesty instead of rewarding it? Though the answer may be complex, I think we all know that a part of it has to do with political inaction and lack of courage.

[@Ella-g2m]

Lazy accounting and greed got us here. Boomers and their parents were living it up on easy street while passing the maintenance and sustainability can down the road. Now the hot potato is in our hands and the music stopped. Development that could not be sustained should never have been allowed to be built. This is a massive decades-long nation-wide policy failure with no painless way out. The fact is that bad land use policy looks good in the accounting up-front, but in the long run it dooms the area. Sustainability and maintenance need to be frontloaded into the math before the construction is approved. But that will never happen because it's too expensive, and will cause the economy to tank. So as long as we refuse to look at reality we're going to double down on the same mistakes. If oil stopped being cheap tomorrow, the country would crash.

[@darbyohara]

Exactly! The boomers are the worst generation in American history in terms of stewardship of the situation they were provided for the next generation. They ruined it and mortgaged their children’s future for their own comfort

[@khulhucthulhu9952]

it's wild how the entire US is built on debt and the assumption that it will be paid for somewhere down the line... and that never happens

[@armorclasshero2103]

It's entirely a house of cards. From the very beginning.

[@micheledeconti7535]

The renovated street looks quite lovely, let's hope they keep improving the city in that direction.

[@christoph3206]

Too bad this video is basically all incorrect in regard to its framing of the Maumee issues. It seems like she has an issue with suburban planning and is forcing that lense on the issues of the town. I’m a current Maumee resident. Ask me anything, but starting off showing the conant street remodel as a”fix” is wildly inaccurate. They made one of the only three surface street level river crossings in a city with a metro population of over 600k impassable for 6 hours out of the day. They stated they wanted to make traffic so bad in town that it would force people to use highways miles away to cross the river instead of driving through their downtown area. Their downtown area that uses Dixie highway, a famous highway from the before federal interstate times, as its Main Street…(called conant in the video). Don’t even get me started on the dishonest framing of the sewage issue.

[@c.i.demann3069]

The Strongest Town competition is a good thing. It's making the world better. Thanks for doing it.

[@darbyohara]

Prove it. This is just propaganda

[@crafterrium8724]

@@darbyohara prove that it's propaganda first

[@emmathearcticurbanist]

You're so much better in long format than in the short format! I saw some of your earlier, longer videos and I thought you had great potential, but in the months after that I've been frustrated to see a bunch of shorter videos from you and not seen the progress I was expecting. But this one is so much better! You go!

[@studio.leonardo]

I’ve appreciated your support from the beginning. More short form and long form to come :)

[@ziptiefighter]

And here I'd heard that Milwaukee (at least a city of that size) was rare in having combined sanitary and sewer, treating that tremendous volume...and having to shunt the [partially treated] volume that exceeds treatment capability during large storm events. I find it absurd that dumping sewage into any river in this day is a thing. Infrastructure isn't sexy. But without smart design and zoning development, everything else matters less. Interesting video. Good on the folks of Maumee for their efforts. 👏 Thankyou

[@Optopolis]

That goes so much deeper than I ever could have imagined. And I'm only about 2/3 through the video.

[@stephencooper5040]

18:57 it's choosing to have an attitude of "if not me, then who? If not now, then when?" for problem solving.

[@magic3817]

Low taxes + fantasy budgeting and planning = today’s debt situation.

[@travisrose]

Beautiful storytelling! Congrats to Maumee for all the hard work done so far, and godspeed for all the tough decisions that lie in front of them. 💜 Maumee's story inspires me to keep working to highlight the same issues of suburban development in my own (much larger) town, and serve alongside my neighbors to make the difficult changes needed to strengthen my town for generations to come. Let's get to work! 💪

[@sillysphinx2330]

Just seeing the efforts after 2-3 years is amazing! Congradulations Maumee!! May more people be inspired to mantain their towns and pay off their debts sooner than anticipated

[@ArchOfWinter]

That swage runoff, along with fertilizers runoff of farms up river, helps agitate the toxic algae bloom in Lake Erie. That aside, I live in NW Ohio for 20 years and drive pass Maumee a lot. It wasn't until the downtown renovation that I actually slowed down enough to get me wanting to check out downtown. As a driver, I am still annoyed by the bottle neck of driving from the river up towards Toledo, but it is also nice to slowdown and appreciate the town.

[@DrJo2012]

I would love for every municipality to have a yearly updated report about what known (big-item) costs will become due in the next ~ 30 years.

[@veramae4098]

I live in the country just outside a small city. New businesses are going up around the city, and the old core is nearly empty. Going into one of those buildings requires a lot of remodeling: asbestos removal, remodel electrical, insulate, etc. A new building is actually cheaper.

[@manan-543]

That's such a fascinating story. It's nice to see Maumee is acknowledging the problem and tackling it head on instead of ignoring it and sweeping it under the rug. If they didn't do anything now the debt may have increased many times after a few decades. A good long term solution for the city would be to implement mixed use zoning. Relaxing the zoning laws a bit would benefit the future growth of the city a lot and help avoid the debt trap of single family homes and big box stores. I don't know how a city can change its zoning laws or it's even possible. But it would be a good start. Mawmee would be a inspiration for many american cities in the future if it continues working towards the right path

[@economicprisoner]

The way Edmonton (Alberta) did it was kind of through the back door: they essentially allowed granny suites on every residential plot of land, ending R1 zoning. After that was accomplished they launched consultations on how much commercial to allow in residential areas.

[@smallstudiodesign]

Wonderful work and a great presentation ✨🏆✨🙏 …thanks for sharing Strong Towns

[@TheModeler99]

Cities should be required to post forecast budgets about 2 decades ahead. The reason people are angry is because, out of nowhere, they find themselves in huge debt with no clue how they got there. When the City builds a shiny new road for a suburb expansion, do they forecast the maintenance cost and report that in their forecast budget, so people can see it?

[@berglt]

Such an interesting video. Makes one wonder how many cities and towns are in the exact same situation?

[@myword1000]

@@berglt Short Answer: Almost all of them. Unrestrained Sprawl seemed a good idea at the time, but as Strong Towns analysis is making abundantly clear, the longer-term costs to maintain low density infrastructure are completely unsustainable.

[@AnotherDuck]

@@myword1000 It's also worse for people on a psychological level. Lack of third places, less social interaction, less independent children, and the list goes on. The increasing addiction to "social" media isn't helping. I've heard many people say, "But I want to live on my own away from people; I'm an introvert!" You can be a satisfied introvert in the middle of New York. And do you really want to pay for the cost you incur to the city? You live on other people's money, which is, sufficiently to say, not sustainable for the population.

[@SigFigNewton]

21,578

[@MaumeeSewer]

@@myword1000 Maumee is a small, landlocked town with very little sprawl or room to develop - it's only 10 square miles. We are above the ideal population density threshold of a 15-minute city.

[@stephen_pfrimmer]

After all the teardown, and rebuild: who owns the land for rent: blackstone et al

[@chrisrobbins6967]

You are a city of 15,000 needing $100 million of sewer upgrades. We are a town of 8,000 needing a $50 million wastewater treatment plant. So I sympathize! Somehow we need to build in the cost of maintaining the infrastructure when it's built, like maybe charging hook-up fees that are based on the number of feet of water & sewer line per unit, then investing some of that money for future upgrades. Cudos on Conant Street, it looks great!

[@victor-ling]

A one time fee will never fully cover continual re-occurring maintenance costs ... so if your hook up fee is charged once when you hook up to the infrastructure then you have to answer the question "how long should the maintenance portion of this hook up fee cover? 10 years? 50 years? 100 years?" which is just a different way of saying "In how many years do we want this to become a problem?" which is effectively exactly the situation being described in the video. If the hook-up fees are instead re-occurring fees that you pay for being "hooked up" to the infrastructure as it degrades in order to cover maintenance costs ... well then those are effectively just property taxes. The fundamental issue here is that wide sprawling suburbia requires more cost/unit in maintenance costs while delivering less tax income/acre of land use. We're getting away with it for now because as cities grow they can pay to maintain the failing infrastructure from the proceeds of their new developments ... but growth will eventually stop and the bill will inevitably come due! When it does, who's paying?

[@DC9848]

For the sewage problem: 1) Install biogas plant in the sewage treatment facility. Convert the input into biogas and compost 2) Convert public transport to use this biogas (busses). Now money (used to buy diesel from outside the community) that was flowing out of the community stays inside the community 3) Use the proceeds from biogas sales to maintain the sewage network and pay back the biogas plant (you can most likely get EPA grants for the plant rather than the sewage network). 4) Allow nearby cities to bring their biowaste material to be processed in the same biogas facility (or better yet, use your own biogas powered fleet to pick it up and get paid from outside the community). You need to start looking at the big money streams that are flowing out of the community (gasoline, cloud service fees, machines that could be shared through a p2p rental scheme instead of being bought by 50% of the households just to sit idle in the shed). And create innovative plans to curb those streams so that more money stays in the community and it leads to more prosperity for all.

[@MaumeeSewer]

@DC9848 Maumee does not have a sewage treatment or water treatment plant - its too small. The city is only 10 square miles and there is no city-sponsored public transport. Since in Ohio, income tax is based on where you work and not where you live, we need more jobs in city limits. A large chunk of Maumee's income is coming from a business park of offices that has been declining for years, which has now only accelerated to the rapid shift in organizational culture of more people working from home. We need high-tech manufacturing or smart factories, the hospital ro reopen, etc.

[@katherandefy]

Oh my goshhhh this was so inspiring. Beyond that it was seriously heartwarming to see this. Wow. I would like to add that the poorer people such as the disabled always wish that something could be done. The housing stock where we live is in such a bad state that it’s making more people sick than ever. And yes federal and state government subsidies built a lot that directly caused infrastructure woes pretty much immediately. It may not be sexy but it’s the truth.

[@char6081]

this inspired me. i may be 18 but im so inspired to make a change!

[@OkAtheistExplainVim]

Excellent video, really hope they come to a solution!

[@Albertoyvey]

I’d love to see a follow up video that focuses on citizen voices to illustrate more of the complexity of “doing the messy work” and how citizens mobilize to do that work. Admittedly, this type of story could be tough to produce (get right) as “citizen voices” are not only diverse but even the owners of voices included in such a video can easily feel later they didn’t nail the landing with their own input and therefore are misrepresented, that and “you can’t satisfy all the people all the time”. Still, while I appreciated this video, reading through the comments afterward, especially of those offered and sparked by @MaumeeSewer, was more enlightening and intriguing, and definitely has me engaged. Perhaps strongtowns could benefit from a parallel series, a B-sides, of videos: the current series that announces winners and is more general and another series focused on the work and perspective of citizens to give viewers a more complete picture, a bit more of a roadmap, for what is entailed from them to building other strong towns. Applause all around though to all involved in this work at all levels!

[@JohnSmith-vr3xr]

I grew up around Maumee. So slanted reporting of what the "changes to downtown" was completely wrong. People I know who live in Maumee HATE it. The only reason people notice the businesses downtown is they are completely stopped in traffic forever. There are only a few roads across the river and one is through Maumee. The quality of life and traffic is a NIGHTMARE. Such a myopic view of where Maumee is located.

[@Plan_it-Farm]

This story is everywhere. The small hamlet close to where I live is in crazy debt for a water line rebuild. Meanwhile, the water is still dirty and full of biology because the ponds are so old they need to be dredged. Yes they got new pipes in the roads, and rebuilt the water treatment plant but the water source is still terrible. The debt load is 3 million and dredging is another 2-3 million. So the residents flipped because the water rates were rising so high but to double that again for dredging is suicide for the town supervisor and board members. So unless money falls from the sky it is a conundrum.

[@strongtowns]

Absolutely. As others have said in the comments, Maumee's problems are found in so many towns across North America, and it's tough to face these head-on. Maumee's story shows that fixing these problems is difficult, but town officials and residents working together can find a solution. We hope that the place near you finds a way to fix these problems!

[@Droidman1231]

I feel for Maumee because my city is going through something similar. Chattanooga, TN has had an EPA Consent Decree regarding sewage in the Tennessee river since 2013. The total cost to fix the system is estimated at $750 million over 20-30 years. We also handle all the wastewater for the unincorporated parts of the county (so ~380,000 people total) Fortunately we are a larger city (~180k) that is growing and has robust tourisim, manufacturing, and logistics. The increase in rates has been annoying but far from catastrophic. The city has stopped expanding its border and, while there is plenty of sprawl in Tennessee, the city itself is starting to thicken up. They redid the zoning code for the first time in like 50 years, planning to complain about it but probably an improvement nonetheless. I just hope The strengthening is quick enough before we potentially confront another large spending obligation we can't as easily handle.

[@rvdb7363]

One of the graphics in the video illustrates how changes in the zoning code can help with the financial side. The four family low-rise building at the same sized plot gives you 4 times higher tax revenue. And the city also will get more diverse. Not everyone wants or needs to live in a house. I live in a 10 story appartement building myself and for me it's perfect. I live alone, so I don't need an entire house. And as someone who really dislikes gardening I definitely dont need a garden. It's also way more energy efficient to heat a unit in an appartement building than a detached house. There are probably a lot of people who are living in a detached house that feels too big for them, who would be perfectly happy in an appartement building if that was an option.

[@MaumeeSewer]

@@rvdb7363 I totally get that many people don't need or even necessarily want to live in detached houses. But more housing won't help the economic situation here very much - The city only receives 4% of the property taxes, and income tax is only paid by people who work in Maumee, not by people who live here. Adding more housing without adding more jobs will contribute to the problem, not help solve it.

[@aridgeman]

Spot on. Debt, unaccounted for maintenance, and use of external grants are key problems. But also is population and new development growth. All now political economy questions. Tough stuff.

[@tangerinefalcon]

please come examine Davis, CA if you haven’t already! Our town has installed abundant micromodal transportation infrastructure but we still struggle with other forms of sustainable development. Would love to see some sort of analysis on our little college town. Thanks so much, and love from CA!❤️

[@cindybrookshire1292]

Absolutely outstanding, Maumee. You show true strength by confronting your vulnerability, as we all need to be doing. Thanks, Strong Towns, for sharing Maumee's solution: Meeting people where they are today, with genuine, ongoing community conversation and taking valid steps to address the tough problems together. (Cindy Brookshire with Activate Selma NC, one of the 2024 Final Four in the Strong Towns competition)

[@Sythemn]

One of the more hopeful things I've seen lately.

[@anthonii.x]

Yay Strong towns :)

[@firstthingsfirstokanagan]

It is so difficult to meet the needs of citizens, to build a climate safe community and a physically healthy, when funding is hard to get and tax increases hurt homeowners and businesses. Getting the citizens on board with changes will always be a challenge. Change is hard! But it must be done and Maumee has a great vision.

[@RidleyJones]

Maumee getting so strong they're now a Muscle Maumee

[@niaengd6089]

Suburban life is a luxury, but they’re propping it up to look cheap. Cities are not charging enough and are constantly losing, then sinking into debt.

[@bigbird2100]

Great video 👍 The attitude of the people is what makes any outcome good or bad.The culture of the American dream play's a huge part of the future 😊

[@susansauceda9879]

Part of this problem is relying on large municipal systems and "the way we've always done it". If you put incinolet toilets in everyone's house and all businesses, there is no longer sewage to deal with. Shower and sinks are greywater and can be treated in a pond like system with plants that clean the water.

[@yaboi_JJ_210]

Great video. At 15:10, you say that long term liabilities are "lost in the complexities... if they aren't accounted for in annual budgets", or something to that effect. I work in a local government budget office. In most municipalities, long term liabilities are accounted for in the Annual Comprehensive Financial Report (ACFR). This is a *separate document* than the annual budget, which is more-so focused on the upcoming year's budgeted expenses and revenues, rather than the accounting-language of assets and liabilities found in the ACFR. To your point though, this information being tracked in a different document than where the average resident may think to look does not make it easy for a resident to clearly understand what is happening with their city's finances!

[@MaumeeSewer]

We have all the ACFRs since 2018, but it's pretty hard to figure out. They have a sewer construction fund and an enterprise sewer fund, and we're not sure how it all works out. We've got some accountants now on the citizens committee who are helping us translate some of it.

[@noca2plus]

Go Maumee! I like what you did with Conant St. Good luck on solving the sewer problem.

[@Xanderall]

18:51 Hey! A Faber-Castell 0.5 mm Fineliner! Great choice!!

[@thejake8987]

Wow. It takes wise courage to face problems you didn’t create to help people you may never know. Especially when avoiding them would be much more convenient. So many cities are committed to avoiding the reality of their financial situation. This actually gives me hope though I’m sure it’s going to be really difficult

[@tomreingold4024]

Very interesting. Thank you.

[@shaneshawaii]

Thank you for your work, Rachel!

[@nathreed]

12:02 the diagram replacing a SFH with a fourplex mentions property tax rates of 1.3%, but the numbers on screen for money available to government for infrastructure appear to be calculated as income taxes (1.3% of the household incomes living in each dwelling unit)

[@HousingSavannahInc.]

Municipal infrastructure is complex, complicated, and rarely discussed. Adding to the challenge, there are numerous stakeholders who often have conflicting needs, perspectives, and motives. While it's very important for elected officials and municipal staff to work for the greatest good, it's incredibly hard to balance it all equitibly. Even though it's painful and hard, Maumee is to be applauded for their hard work and effort to do the right thing for their community.

[@Anolaana]

18:48-19:02 holy 7 jump cuts in 15 seconds batman!! I have hardly any idea whether that was what he actually said or not.

[@bramvanduijn8086]

I see two options for the city budget: Raise taxes or lower expenses. So give the citizens the list of legal requirements like sewage dumping limits, then give them the income/maintenance costs numbers per type of building if you follow those legal requirements. Then you can show them their short term options: - Raise taxes. - Stop investing in anything that is not a legal requirement. - Allow the type of building that is profitable everywhere. Then let them make their own budget with a simple set of three sliders on a website that shows the outcome both short term and long term.

[@darbyohara]

Here’s the best way to lower expenses, cut the ridiculously generous city pensions and retirement obligations OR privatize that aspect of

[@RandomStuff-Nemo]

Much like a gift given to me. I have to consider all the costs associated with accepting it. That is why money is one of the better gifts because it allows us to utilize it how we see it best. Being involved and considerate is a good choice.

[@sambaxrock]

We can break it down in many different ways. But what truly shows is that so-called “American Way” aka the empire is crumbling, literally.

[@asfasdfadf9820]

Love this!

[@Andrew_Sherman]

So I am from NW Ohio and now live in Waterville (the next town over). Maumee used to be amazing and a place people went that was considered the in place to be. When Southwyck mall went underc The Anderson’s closed, and The movie theatres closed, it has gone downhill and downhill fast. I commend the town officials and residents for making recent strides. I won’t lie though from the outside, the problems they have are enormous and from the outside I can’t understand how it’s been considered a strong town. I don’t even frequent downtown anymore and actively avoid driving through it if possible because it sucks so bad. Even new additions technically considered Maumee (Fallen Timbers Mall) are largely vacant and already going downhill.

[@strongtowns]

Thank you for sharing! Your perspective is really valuable; the problems that Maumee faces, like so many places in North America, are huge and feel impossible to address. Those downhill slides are real and can be really difficult to fix. The officials and residents of Maumee are facing the problems head-on and advocating for solutions, and you're right that they should absolutely be commended for making progress. And all of these things are part of the Strong Towns approach. It might not be perfect, and it might not get things right the first time, but a strong town isn't a perfect town, and building resilience will happen in stages.

[@arimihalos7598]

Kudos to the people of Maumee, no doubt that moving forward they will build a Strong Town.

[@TS_Mind_Swept]

When this video started I thought it was an Answers in Progress video 😂😂 not that I'm complaining, I do like is the format, just wasn't expecting it :p Definitely nice to see a city taking charge of change and being open with the community about it (even tho the Kicking and Screaming which usually ensues would certainly make me prefer to not >.>), hopefully it can serve as an example for more cities to make similar changes and improvements; I know I'd love to see a lot of them in my city in Northern Ohio

[@geoffparnell8514]

I have not even had a chance to watch the video before I'm presented with an incredibly high quality graphic on the water tower. The title graphic art is cinematic quality and I hope the artist is very well compensated!

[@Tokahfang]

This video would have very benefitted from a least a short interview with someone who feels trapped in Maumee so that we can understand what people on the other side of the issue are afraid of.

[@melanienied8039]

Yes, it is one sided because they don't want to mar the Strong Town award. Just look up on the internet the things the citizens of Maumee have been dealing with. It will tell you.

[@MaumeeSewer]

Many of us have made comments explaining more about the situation, but they are continuously deleted.

[@willythemailboy2]

You're just now realizing that this channel is propaganda?

[@MaumeeSewer]

@@willythemailboy2 Lol nope. Just annoyed by the video and it's blatant mischaracterization - we always seem to be fighting a losing battle. Citizens dealt with the local press doing this for a while, but for the last few months, they seem to understand more now. If even a few people stumble across the comments residents have made here and start questioning things, it's worth it.

[@darbyohara]

Buts its “uplifting” and they don’t wanna focus on negatives 😂

[@davidcosine]

Pittsburgh is in the midst of tackling combined sewage and storm drains. We are experiencing the same issues as Maumee

[@tropicalpnch4549]

Maumee sounds a bit like Berlin, MD but with about 10,000 more citizens. Great video!

[@bigswings2414]

I get up in Toledo Ohio and remember constantly going to Maumee for the beach. Wasn’t the best in water quality but I’m glad they are improving! I had to do a double take when I heard the name mentioned.