Why Was Dark Souls 2 So Bad?

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[@ozythewise7411]

>Longest game in the series, each key item taking four areas to reach. >Dared to nerf estus chugging, which means input reading from bosses is no longer necessary. >Dared to nerf dodge rolls, which along with the estus nerf earned it the ire of the fans. >Built-in no bonfires challenge >Built-in no deaths challenge >Built-in hard mode >Pharros Lockstones and Fragrant Branches add a level of map interaction not present in the other games >Bonfire Ascetics >NG + acutally changes things >You can reach pretty much any area in early game so you can work on your build as soon as possible thanks to Fragrant branches >NPC invasions that are unique >Poise actually worked DS2 is a mess, cobbled together from the half-finished remains of an almost canceled game, by in experience game lead, and fixed by another guy who was promoted to lead more than halfway through development, and it really shows. But it's genuinely the only game in the Souls/Elden Ring series that dared to make some significant shakeups to the formula, it's honestly a shame so few of them survived. Estus and roll nerfs in particular would've probably been great for the games in the long run. Unfortunately, we now have elden ring enemies They need to bring ADP back because the ultimate Souls Redpill is slow and methodical can't work in a world where everyone can get an overpowered roll for essentially free. As long as rolling is a basic ability that requires zero investment to become usable, all enemies and especially bosses have to be balanced around the assumption of everyone at least mid-rolling. Hence the input reading, delayed attacks, long combo strings with irregularly spaced attacks and aftershocks, massive gap closer lunges, and insane tracking on every boss in ER. The fact that this pressures and punishes slower builds and weapons that would normally build around poise, absorption, and damage trades is just an unfortunate byproduct of rolling being way too powerful. And that's why I wish ADP had stuck around in some more polished form. If rolling required similar investment to heavy armor/shields or the most powerful weapons, there might have been more space for different boss and enemy design. Rolling should be a tool not an answer. Because of this we've seen it in Elden Ring there is hardly any reason to be a tank in these games anymore there isn't a point when it just comes down to just rolling to avoid 7 string combos from bosses. DaS2 had the right idea in REDUCING the power of the roll. The amount of I-frames on rolling was a serious flaw that should have been tweaked, but instead they leaned in on it more and more over time, resulting in the roll spam-fests we have in DaS3 and ER, and worse of all, the atrocious enemy and boss design we now have designed around it.

[@dmitriyrasskazov8858]

I just recently got into souls game never playing it before and its kinda weird how long ds2 feels. I managed to finish ds1 in 3 days(one regular playthrough and sort of victory lap on ng+). Im currently on 3rd day of ds2 and only got one old soul out of 4. It didnt feel much harder or slower, but progression is surely takes a much much more time than the first game.

[@ComradeCommunism]

Very insightful. I think thoughtful players with enough media literacy will inevitably realize how much Monster Hunter design DNA the souls series has and hopefully we'll start getting people to consider why MH requires build investment into easily accessible invincibility frames. As an ardent DS2 enjoyer for going on 10 years now, I think I ought to add that the final souls black pill is that Dark Souls 2 rewards players who are careful, considerate and thoughtful in the ways that they approach their build and various combat encounters, and the reason a lot of players tend to bounce off the game is because they refuse to approach things in this manner. DS2, more than any other Fromsoft game, is a series of open-ended puzzles for you to solve; you are given a tremendous amount of freedom in how you approach things and the sheer variety of tools available for you to use almost immediately is staggering. It's fascinating to me that Fromsoft never seemed to understand the things that made Dark Souls 2 good, you can see this in action as early as the Scholar of the First Sin release, which is objectively a worse overall package than the final patch iteration of the vanilla game. I really hope we see some indie devs look at the surprising number of strengths the game has and consider how to rectify some of its failings so that we can get a proper successor to this style of combat and exploration.

[@gecho5427]

it is an okay game

[@Ironica82]

@@dmitriyrasskazov8858 Just curious, how long do you play each day and what is causing you to take that long? Was your first old soul the Old Iron King? Do you jump around areas a lot?

[@dmitriyrasskazov8858]

@@Ironica82 Around 1.5-2 hours a day after work, more on weekends. I started at giants. I clear area fully before moving to next.

[@FTWSamFisher]

The problem with DS2 is that its very mid in every way. DS1 is a classic and DS3 is the refinement off that essence but DS2 suffers from not being overtly good at anything in particular. DS2 feels off and doesnt shine outside of a few boss fights, where DS3 feels more like Bloodborne mixed with DS1 all of which are exceptional games, and are inherently unique from each other in their gameplay and design. DS2 wants to be a dark souls game but feels like its just trying to emulate

[@gravenlord865]

What about the iron dragon bridge were pvp really started people are forgetting mobs of people on the bridge all in line waiting to take the next champion. Ds2 was great it’s actually still my favorite game. Tons of hexes so many spells

[@unrefinedmorosis5546]

I felt that way more about DS3 than DS2 actually. DS3 is like you said, simply a refinement of the original essence, but it isn't really anything more than that. It doesn't do anything particularly original with itself, it's just very cut and dry execution of Dark Souls with some bloodborne dna in it's enemy design and pacing. It felt better executed, but more uninspired, and kind of dull as a result. DS3 just doesn't have anything new to say about dark souls, nothing of it's own to bring to the table. If you want more of the same, DS3 is great, but if you're looking for something new like I am, you just walk away from DS3 feeling a bit let down. And I can think of several things that DS2 does better off the top of my head. Build variety is the best in the trilogy, and until Elden Ring came out DS2 had the best magic. DS2 made ranged builds of all kinds, including bows, genuinely viable. The world, while it isn't as interconnected as DS1, is the most visually pleasing in the trilogy, and I really can't think of an area that looks particularly bad. The lore isn't overtly connected to DS1 or DS3, but what is there is genuinely quite interesting to learn about, and it's different themes left me walking away with plenty of stuff to to think about. Honestly if you look past the slightly different combat feel and the bosses, there's plenty to enjoy in it, but if you can't get yourself past that hump then idk what to say. If boss fights and high octane combat are what you care about, DS2 just isn't your game.

[@miceatah9359]

Id say its steaight up bad tho not even mid

[@NuffyPlaysGames]

@@unrefinedmorosis5546 Ds3 was a complete package of being good and fun throughout the whole experience. and the dlc just made that experience even better. DS2 has some minor highlights but never did it feel like a fun game all the way through. the best system that DS2 introduced was powerstancing. other than that DS3 is just the more fun game and experience overall.

[@unrefinedmorosis5546]

@@NuffyPlaysGames Fun is very subjective. I can agree that DS3 is well made, but I honestly didn't find it fun at all. In contrast, my DS2 playthroughs are probably the most fun I've ever had in souls games. Fun isn't a description of the game, it's a commentary on your experience with a game, a measure of you're feelings towards it. I just don't share your feelings on DS3 and I frankly found the game kind of dull at best and infuriating at worst.

[@mungologgo5526]

Dark Souls 2 is a good game, a good souls game as well. Still gets way too much hate from people who never finished it. Gets ragged on, despite people forgetting almost half of DS1 was straight up unfinished

[@mungologgo5526]

I fw the video though, production value is great for such a small channel. Keep it up bro.

[@miceatah9359]

Implying ds2 isnt unfinushed ds1 at keast feels complete outside of bed of chaos

[@PerfectSense77]

The rushed parts of DS1 are still better than the best parts of DS2. It's like they took DS1 and were like... how can we copy this, but make everything terrible!

[@celiafrostborn]

I finished it, took awhile because I was contemplating deleting it every minute I played. Gotta say it's easily the worst by a large margin. At no point did I ever feel the same level of frustration as I did with DS2 on any other fromsoft game. In order from worst to beat it's DS2 (By a lot), Elden ring, Sekiro, DS1, DS3 and I never played BB. And all but DS2 are pretty close, so even if I don't like ER it's still not a bad game by any means. DS2 just bad.

[@AmanRaj-lx3jf]

Did i just saw someone use spook againt dragonslayer armour???

[@Milo-ng6cn]

If I look at DS2 as a spin-off to the series and not as a sequel to DS, I’m somehow able to accept it, but I was never able to see as the actual part of the trilogy.

[@erikxiii9630]

The answer is : it never was bad

[@Phirestar]

Simple: they bit off more than they could chew. They were trying too hard to be the “bigger, better” sequel that could trump the first Dark Souls’ success, and it hurt them in the process. And I’m not just pulling that from nowhere. I watched Matt McMuscles’ video about the game last year, and he goes into detail about how the director(s) for this game wanted to essentially one-up the accomplishments of DS1. But what ended up happening as a result of various factors - limited development time, features and content being completely scrapped, the game basically restarting half-way through with a new director - is a game with twice the scope, but only half the quality. In some ways, I would almost liken DS2 as the “prototype” or “first attempt at” creating what would eventually become Elden Ring. After all, the journey is supposed to take you through an entire continent of widely varied locales to explore. It may not have been open world, but the spirit of that concept is somewhat there due to the multiple branching paths that let you progress in different ways. The issue being that this was 2013, nearly a full decade before FromSoft would be capable of releasing a game as ambition as Elden Ring, and Dark Souls 2 was sharing its development alongside Bloodborne. So the team had neither the experience nor the manpower to pull a game like that off effectively.

[@picour]

ds2 clears elden mid lil bro..

[@nnnnnnnnn8888]

The other problem is the ps3 hardware, if they waited enough the next gen (ps4) would’ve helped a lot in the development of ds2

[@unrefinedmorosis5546]

@nnnnnnnnn8888 It was originally developed as a ps4/xbox 1 title, but the schedule got changed last minute and they had to rush to make it playable on the earlier gen hardware.

[@IAmDdie1]

Your the first petson i have ever seen agree with my exact position

[@laggingdragons]

Don't let yourself get gloomy about video performance, bruv. There's always a next time, always. Unless you decide to quit, you can always keep moving forward. I liked the video, though it was a bit short, good luck with more!

[@zedanime220]

We'll be sitted for the retrospective...no doubt. (Banana....floop?)

[@getexposedlmao]

The only memorable thing from this game was Power stance and how you could level up your armor. Anything else was AIDS

[@GraaD-87]

While DS2 was my third Souls game, it instanly became and still remains my favourite Souls game. The ultimate pinnacle of the series in terms of music, ambiance, lore, fashion and tactical gameplay. Nearly all the changes to the core formular I apreciated and ADPted to, and eventually missed those in later FS titles. Except multiplayer matchmaking being based on Soul Memory - this one I personally didn't like. I believe there is a highly vocal minority of people actively hating this game nowadays, but most people who actually played it back then loved it just as much as DS1 or DeS. Not a single Souls game is perfect - each and every one of them has it's own set of flaws. At least DS2's flaws stem from daring experimentation, not stagnation.

[@stabbynuggets]

1k subs before 2025 is too humble. Go for more, you're already close to your 1k milestone.

[@SenUchitana]

Is it bad because the main bosses are Easier?

[@Mentiraverdad]

Played them in order DS:2 is my favourite 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@zacnaj8136]

Ds2 imo is my favourite because of replaying it, such as new enemy placements on ng+ and even being invaded by npc characters where you wouldn't expect. It challenges players in different areas. Another reason is like what you said the enemy placement like yeah it's annoying can't disagree with ya there. but even then it's good warm up to the boss if need be just run past most of them or use items ie alluring skulls In saying that i think it's a good souls game because of not only its difficulty but also it's difference to ds1 and 3 if it was same as ds1 everyone would call it a ds1 clone will say though storywise yes it's not the strongest nor does it connect ds1 and 3 together Granted this is my 2 cents and in saying that i have bias because it is my favourite probably because of it's difficulty and such Regardless not a bad vid but could go a bit more in depth

[@QuidLad]

It’s not bad at all - I liked it!

[@limpnormal4219]

It isn't

[@hosshydraa1181]

I just started playing Fromsoft games literally 2 weeks ago. I have just under 50hours in DS1 and for the first time in a very, very long time; I was able to sit down and play a game for HOURS. DS1 is now in my favorite games of all time. DS2....I have exactly 11.8 hours in it, and the problem with it, is it's literally just non stop groups of enemies back to back. It's super not fun to play bc of that, not to mention on top of constantly fighting groups of enemies. They also have archer or mages that won't stop firing at you too. Another thing is the Bonfire is absolutely garbage in both DS2 and 3. I hate having to fast travel back to the hub world just to level up. DS1 required you to know where people are and where to go. 2& 3? Nope, just go to the hub world. Imo they're both uninspired compared to 1. I'm currently playing through Elden Ring and am loving it so far, although I feel the map is a tad to big tbh.

[@YOUR_NARRATOR975]

Yeah, not leveling up at bonfires was a bad idea.

[@mungologgo5526]

Are you playing SOTFS? In either, you need to get used to playing strategic and dealing with the enemies, splitting up agro to not get ganked. Yes, it's less frantic and intense than DS1 or DS3 levels. Imo, the amount of enemies in any version of DS2 is never an issue and the people who complain about it just have a lack of skill

[@YOUR_NARRATOR975]

@@mungologgo5526 not everything can be chocked up to "skill issue" Some things are just actually bad design

[@buttbuttwhat1]

I think you would like Zelda. Not new Zelda. Just the first Zelda. Very simple for you.

[@pepeb1238]

While DkS2 is probably my most played game of the soulsborne series, I do believe that it’s the worst game. Better than Demon’s Souls, but if I think about it in the most objective way possible, it’s the worst dark souls

[@maxaanensen]

Ds2 has some great things about it but 95% of it is Awful

[@EthanIsADork]

I commenting what you said

[@xeno6416]

The Dark Souls trilogy in a nutshell for me: Dark Souls 1: Iconic Character and bosses. Dark Souls 2: Best Lore and great world design. Dark Souls 3: Best Gameplay Mechanics and DLC bosses (fuck halflight though). I understand where you are coming from. What you said about adaptability being a nuisance other than the fact you can upgrade the stat, but the amount of levels you get covers this issue. Personally, I like ds2 the most out of the three. This doesn't mean the other 2 are bad as some people interpret it for some reason, just prefer the wider variety of weapons and outfits, and like beautiful views and the way the game developers experimented.

[@GoodHunter89]

Yes it is bad! I really hate it and just want the Platin Trophy because i have all the others, even the Platin for Elden Ring Ps4/Ps5.

[@sandieeeeeee]

So the answer is. Yeah but no.

[@yung_ricardo2244]

Nashandra was a really shitty final antagonist too, and Aldias character was amazing, it’s a pity his final boss fight was so horrible

[@Masterbaiter1000]

Demon souls was the greatest

[@m1nd_fl4y3r_m80]

It WOULD be a fantastic game if it wasn't for the poor development and shoddy feel of the game. The jankiness and the repetitive bosses are what killed DS2. It just wasn't fun.

[@AtreyusNinja]

Dark Souls 2 is an amazing souls and an amazing game

[@miceatah9359]

Yeah no dark souls 2 is gomplete garbage

[@rayyanhashmi629]

The game has many bad aspects but the worst part is the artificial difficulty created by the health going down when u die which can only be fixed by a limited resource and the terrible level design. Good video tho 🙏

[@MacRaibeirt]

I don't like it either but calling human effigies a "limited resource" is technically correct but seems wrong to me. Those things are everywhere.

[@tripaloski1005]

git gud👺

[@Ironica82]

Would you argue the instant huge chunk of health lost in Demon Souls and Dark Souls 3 is even worse terrible design?

[@rayyanhashmi629]

@@tripaloski1005 do u wanna get touched

[@rigorm136]

@@Ironica82 With embers you aren’t losing health you’re gaining more of it.

[@YOUR_NARRATOR975]

ADP was 90% of the reason it sucked.

[@mungologgo5526]

I agree. If you don't level ADP and don't invest in a good shield, the game is hell. Do that and most of the issues with the game (in SOTFS, and DS2 patched) become more just like nitpicks. Imo they should have communicated better to the player to invest in ADP or invest in a shield if they didn't plan on dodging much.

[@Ironica82]

ADP is made for those who don't use shield or magic builds. Considering that not only was he basically parrying the Pursuer while complaining about it (which doesn't need ADP) but also Attunement raises agility, you can play the game without touching ADP.

[@soul_of_a_hero]

it was not bad but it was the worst out off all the souls games

[@BorsPepsi]

I honestly have more fun playing this over Dark Souls 1 and 3

[@GraaD-87]

To ba fair, DS2 was a much greater experience then DeS, DS1, DS3 or ER to me and every Souls fan I happen to know IRL.

[@picour]

yeah youre just wrong and nitpicking ! this game is the best souls game buddy...

[@rayyanhashmi629]

U are stupid buddy

[@YOUR_NARRATOR975]

Best is a bit of a stretch though

[@picour]

@@YOUR_NARRATOR975 clearly you are biased and nitpicking

[@YOUR_NARRATOR975]

@@picour I don't think saying 80% of the boss runbacks are way too long and filled with way too many enemies is a nitpick

[@picour]

@@YOUR_NARRATOR975 that is literally just a nitpick and its not even true

[@Wallbeige]

Skill issue

[@Vggamegod]

Dark Souls 2 isn't bad, people just think it is because group-think affects gaming, like everything else

[@djtoxicdhg]

Ima say it now dark souls 2 is literally the best dark souls game hands down

[@mousaweis]

My only complaint with it would be the healing but otherwise I definitely agree

[@smukgitgut]

Based

[@whenmoviesweregood]

It’s fs better than ds1. At least ds2 if fully complete unlike 40% of ds1

[@BorsPepsi]

Preach

[@miceatah9359]

​@@whenmoviesweregoodnow thats some cope ... what exactly would those 60% of ds1 be that are incomplete ? Except boc i cant think of anything tbh

[@crookedsaint9544]

if you want people to sub dont burp into the mic.